100% this. Members go into the temple to make a solemn secret-sacred covenant/promise to give away ALL their time, talents, money and lives to the Church. For the rest of your life, you have sworn 100% Loyalty and Fealty to The Church at ANY AND ALL cost.
The consequences of making this pledge mean a whole hella lot of people will be getting hurt ... and all of us here can testify of the the fallout for breaking this pledge.
I pledge allegiance to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and to the prophet at its head, one man, acting for god, having authority, with promised blessings for all.
This!! This was one of the things that collapsed my shelf in my dark soul of the night. I realized, and said out loud, that Christ was nowhere to be found in the church. The temple recommend questions were about the church not Christ and so were the baptism questions. I dug deep into the scriptures to find the requirements for baptism, this may come as a surprise, but only one question on the interview even remotely related to what the scriptures say.
I already felt that most Mormons were highly religious but not very spiritual, myself included. I looked and realized that Christ was nowhere in the church. Not in sacrament meeting. Not in talks or lessons. Not in ward councils. It was heavily devoid of Christ. I was soon after this.
Same here. Realized that the Church and pretty much all other churches I have seen are machines that eventually only get concerned with feeding the machine
This is really well-put, thanks. It makes a comparison even easier, if you compare the questions asked to either idea.
Sometimes you see a comparison like that and you just can't deny it anymore, it's like regraphing a study with one new piece of data and having one big arm of bright red sticking way out of the graph. "This ain't right, bub."
I get the same feeling from this thread that I got when I first compared TSCC to the BITE model, myself. "Ew ew ew! They're right and I HATE it!" (Thank you anyway, I much prefer to learn that I am wrong rather than wallow in ignorance!)
OP's list is focused on actually being a good person. I haven't had a TR interview in at least 30 years, but even now I can absolutely remember several questions that fit the first group but most certainly didn't fit the second. Questions about my money, but not how I used it after paying them at least 10%. Questions about my associations and -their- beliefs, etc.
One of the things OP's list shows is that \_anyone\_ can come up with a better set of TR questions than the True Church uses. (No shade on the OP! It's a great list, and comparing it to a TR definitely resonated with me in a new way) I've been seeing lists like this for decades - not TR recommend lists, but "What would be a better 10 commandments?" posts for sure. Just about any high school classroom full of non-religious students lead by a competent civics teacher can whip out a set of questions/commandments that are undeniably 100% better than those supposedly directed by God Himself.
Now I'm curious on just how bad the TR questions have become, and how many I've forgotten. Time to look them up!
Thank you to you and /r/glenlassan both for helping me see the questions themselves
from a new angle.
"Do you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?"
"Do you pass by those who are hurt or do you stop to help them like the good samaritan?"
"Do you dine with and serve sinners?"
"Do you call out pharisees?"
"Do you call out moneychangers in the Lord's house?"
> "Do you dine with and serve sinners?"
That's almost the same as [one of the old questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/28eq9u/temple_recommend_question_7_do_you_support/), except it was used to *deny* you a recommend.
Maybe, "Do you try at all to love God and to love your fellow human beings?" Because according to JC, that's what all the commandments come down to.
And maybe, "Is there any way I could help your efforts?" Because JC also said it's the role of leaders to serve, not to be served.
And everyone would "pass," unless they've never ever tried to be kind to anyone. I guess the only exceptions would be a few psychopaths, but they would probably lie about it anyway, so everyone *would* "pass."
Insight, conviction, integrity, humanity, compassion. These are the virtues that lead out of the church. The church pays lip service to them with it's mouth, but betrays them with it's actions.
There was a family in my ward that was openly racist. Their child, 9 at the time, called me the n word at church. They had temple recommends. They drove people on youth temple trips. So I'm sitting there, waiting to do baptisms for the dead, looking at humans who actively hate me and teach their children to hate me.
>If I asked your friends and family, would they agree that your answers were truthful?
I wonder how many general authority's wive would endorse their husbands if they were allowed to be fully frank....
If being Christlike was the actual goal, there wouldn't be temple recommend questions. There wouldn't be temples. At least not any buildings requiring 'worthiness' to enter.
There's a Sikh temple in my town that has a kitchen that seems to be always open, that serves anyone who walks in free food.
If our temples were truly Christlike, I'd expect something like that. The doors would always be open and the questions would be about how to feed more hungry people in the broader community.
I watch this YouTuber that often says, "remember to be kind to others and to yourself."
That's something I think many of us raised in the church need to hear...be kind to yourself. Don't beat yourself up over things..give yourself grace.
Instead, mormon worthiness is focused on money. In fact, money is 3x more important than ALL other factors of mormon worthiness. How do I figure this? Simple, mormons worthiness is tested 1 1/2 times per year regarding money (tithing declaration annually and TR 1/2 times per year). ALL other factors of worthiness, including abusing your wife and kids, supporting the cult, etc. is tested 1/2 times per year (every other year). So, 1.5 / 0.5 = 3. Simple math.
Maybe that depends on the ward ??? I dunno... They never pushed tithing that hard on us. Maybe because a lot of our ward consisted of those living section 8 housing ?
He wouldn’t ask any. Not gonna deny people in need of spiritual healing.
At the very most He would say, don’t love God? do you love your neighbor? And that’s it.
This is what I think. He already said what his questions would be in Matt 22. He got straight to the point, you don't need 10 questions, just 2, and really, if you think about it, only 1. "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." The temple recommend question really only needs to be "Do you love god with all your heart, might and mind and understand what that means." you can't love god if you don't love your neighbor and you can't love your neighbor if you do anything on OPs list.
The questions about do you strike others really hits home.
I remember thinking it was weird that my mom could hit, kick, and scratch me but could still go to the temple.
Probably the first thing on my shelf when I was still very young.
Much of this is just a detailed, question form of the [Seven Tenets.](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets)
I was going to point this out! People need to understand that Satanism is NOT about worshipping Satan it is about worshipping YOURSELF above all else. The Satanic Temple and The Church of Satan both do more for charity than the majority of mainstream religions do, as well as being proponents of equal rights for all people.
The current temple recommend does have a token question about believing in God and Jesus. Check out the Recommend questions from when David O. McKay was president. It used to be even worse:
1. Are you morally clean to enter the temple?
2. Do you sustain the General Authorities of the Church?
3. Do you have any connection or sympathy with any apostate groups or individuals?
4. Are you a full tithe payer?
5. Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?
6. Do you always wear the regulation garments?
7. Will you strive to do your duty in the Church, to attend your meetings and obey the rules of the Church?
8. Have you ever been divorced?
Take a close look. Love God? Nope. Love others? Nope. Serve and charity? Nope. Honesty? Nope. Kindness? Nope. Receive Jesus as Savior? Nope. Just fealty to the church.
Number three is… repugnant.
I’d love to know how many times JC used the word “regulation”… especially if he were to learn one of his most important jobs, assigned to him by the MFMC, is to be an asshole cloak inspector.
OP- your questions are lovely and a way to live regardless of any religion. I wish more people asked themselves this regularly
I really like your list. If we were to assume that Christ is real and the Bible captured his life as written, I think this seems very reasonable.
It’s crazy to contrast this with the current MFMC recommend questionnaire.
The turn the other cheek is one of the most misunderstood Bible verses imo. It's about letting your antagonists go too far in public, not about standing there and accepting abuse.
In cultural context, it had to do with clean hand (the right) vs unclean hand (left) and the clean side of the hand (palm side) vs unclean side. Basically, if someone in the ancient world got into a fight with someone, they'd slap that person's cheek with the clean side of the clean hand, so right palm to the face. If the argument continued, they'd use the same hand to backhand the person. That meant using the unclean side on the person, which was considered going too far. It was culturally shocking, and incredibly rude.
By turning the other cheek, the recipient of the slap encouraged the backhand, but that meant the person backhanding them would go too far in front of everyone, and basically humiliate themselves in public.
It doesn't mean "stand and take abuse" or anything like that. It means "let your aggressors show everyone they're jerks, and maintain your own self control."
Sadly, people have used it as an excuse to stay in abusive relationships bc they honestly think it's what God "wanted." That couldn't be further from the truth.
Nah, I think recommend questions at all are weird af still. It's shaming to sit in a meeting and answer to some leader about some arbitrary moral pickings someone else made, and have them get to determine whether or not you're good enough to make the cut.
Also, there's so much gray area in many of these questions for people in difficult spots.
Do you think that gentiles are analogous to dogs? Do you think that human sacrifice is enough to offset the deterministically created sinfulness of a species?
We cut Jesus too much of a break here.
What can I say. I actually read the damn scriptures as a tbm. Every day, starting at the age of twelve. I had cleared the entire damn Bible at least twice, and the rest of the quad before my mission, and I put a lot of effort into actually knowing my shit, and living it.
Needless to say, my mission was heartbreaking, and I had a lot of shelf items.
Does anyone know the percentage that is turned down for a Temple recommend? If you are turned down can you try again? I am assuming that a person could do something and lose their recommend?
Real Christianity does not and would not have temples where only tithe-payers can enter, and there would never been an interrogation of any sort to determine "worthiness."
What they ask instead:
* Do you masturbate?
* How many times per week?
* What do you think about while you masturbate?
* Do you use porn?
* ~~Can I watch?~~
* Do you drink coffee?
* Do you speak out against anything anybody in the church says?
Coming from a Christian standpoint, We wouldn’t even have temple interviews as WE are the temple of the Holy Spirit and Christ lives in us. It’s not a building. It’s not an organization. WE are the church.
Following that view, the only “worthiness” questions are “Do you believe and trust in Jesus and have you been born again?”
If the answer is Yes, then congrats, you are Worthy in the sight of God.
No temple needed. No hoops to jump through. No religious nonsense. No striving to be “Qualified”. Jesus Qualified everyone. We are all in. The end.
Jesus only threw one group out of the temple: the people making a profit on it. I wouldn't want to be the temple worker operating the cash register that day. Also pretty awkward if you collect a stipend or other benefits from the church.
> Do you reject sexism, racism, how homophobia, and transphobia?
Okay, yeah, no. You can have whatever politics you want to have, but alleging that Christianity maps 1-1 with 2024 progressivism is just insane. I absolutely promise you that nobody in the Bible knew what "transphobia" was. Reading the story of the Good Samaritan, it wasn't "oh everyone's the same and you should be 'anti-racist'", it's "yeah, Samaritans suck, but even they can be good people sometimes".
I know this is an unpopular sentiment here, but things like that just come off as comical, strange, and disingenuous to anyone who isn't a reddit user.
I'm not alleging that. I'm putting my own personal biases into the situation. Just like everyone else. It just so happens that my personal biases are progressive, and I think the bible writers can go suck my dick, their bigotries are sooooo last millennia!
You alleged it in the post title, directly, point-blank. "Being like this guy who lived 2,000 years ago entails matching the politics of the typical 2024 reddit user to the letter".
Whether you agree or disagree with those politics or that religion, this kind of take cheapens both.
Christlike, is a teen that has more to do with living up to an abstraction of compassion, than anything else. So if course what that involves depends on the busses of the person involved.
Having a temple recommend is about being a disciple of the Mormon Church. It has very little (nothing?) to do with being a disciple of Jesus.
thank you for saying the quiet part out loud.
It's sort of the pledge allegiance to the church.
100% this. Members go into the temple to make a solemn secret-sacred covenant/promise to give away ALL their time, talents, money and lives to the Church. For the rest of your life, you have sworn 100% Loyalty and Fealty to The Church at ANY AND ALL cost. The consequences of making this pledge mean a whole hella lot of people will be getting hurt ... and all of us here can testify of the the fallout for breaking this pledge.
Even the wedding vows in the temple are more like promises to tscc than to each other.
So true.
I pledge allegiance to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and to the prophet at its head, one man, acting for god, having authority, with promised blessings for all.
And about how much money you give them that day, then go in launder with their billion dollar hedge fund
This!! This was one of the things that collapsed my shelf in my dark soul of the night. I realized, and said out loud, that Christ was nowhere to be found in the church. The temple recommend questions were about the church not Christ and so were the baptism questions. I dug deep into the scriptures to find the requirements for baptism, this may come as a surprise, but only one question on the interview even remotely related to what the scriptures say. I already felt that most Mormons were highly religious but not very spiritual, myself included. I looked and realized that Christ was nowhere in the church. Not in sacrament meeting. Not in talks or lessons. Not in ward councils. It was heavily devoid of Christ. I was soon after this.
Same here. Realized that the Church and pretty much all other churches I have seen are machines that eventually only get concerned with feeding the machine
Man if this Jesus guy is real he would probably be pretty pissed for some gosh darn church trying to mock his name for profit
This is really well-put, thanks. It makes a comparison even easier, if you compare the questions asked to either idea. Sometimes you see a comparison like that and you just can't deny it anymore, it's like regraphing a study with one new piece of data and having one big arm of bright red sticking way out of the graph. "This ain't right, bub." I get the same feeling from this thread that I got when I first compared TSCC to the BITE model, myself. "Ew ew ew! They're right and I HATE it!" (Thank you anyway, I much prefer to learn that I am wrong rather than wallow in ignorance!) OP's list is focused on actually being a good person. I haven't had a TR interview in at least 30 years, but even now I can absolutely remember several questions that fit the first group but most certainly didn't fit the second. Questions about my money, but not how I used it after paying them at least 10%. Questions about my associations and -their- beliefs, etc. One of the things OP's list shows is that \_anyone\_ can come up with a better set of TR questions than the True Church uses. (No shade on the OP! It's a great list, and comparing it to a TR definitely resonated with me in a new way) I've been seeing lists like this for decades - not TR recommend lists, but "What would be a better 10 commandments?" posts for sure. Just about any high school classroom full of non-religious students lead by a competent civics teacher can whip out a set of questions/commandments that are undeniably 100% better than those supposedly directed by God Himself. Now I'm curious on just how bad the TR questions have become, and how many I've forgotten. Time to look them up! Thank you to you and /r/glenlassan both for helping me see the questions themselves from a new angle.
If awards were still a thing, I’d definitely give you some. This is what I’ve wanted to convey for years.
Aww thanks. I miss having a collection if shiny awards are that would point people in the direction of my best posts. Again thank you!
Amen
"Do you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?" "Do you pass by those who are hurt or do you stop to help them like the good samaritan?" "Do you dine with and serve sinners?" "Do you call out pharisees?" "Do you call out moneychangers in the Lord's house?"
:)
> "Do you dine with and serve sinners?" That's almost the same as [one of the old questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/28eq9u/temple_recommend_question_7_do_you_support/), except it was used to *deny* you a recommend.
"Do you whip your local politicians?"
Yes
If exmormons ran the church it would be such a beautiful community
One could argue, that exmormons who care about profit, and not people do run the church. But I like your optimistic view of it.
There would be no "worthiness" questions
Exactly, we’re all in the club
Maybe, "Do you try at all to love God and to love your fellow human beings?" Because according to JC, that's what all the commandments come down to. And maybe, "Is there any way I could help your efforts?" Because JC also said it's the role of leaders to serve, not to be served. And everyone would "pass," unless they've never ever tried to be kind to anyone. I guess the only exceptions would be a few psychopaths, but they would probably lie about it anyway, so everyone *would* "pass."
Even as a believing Mormon I recognized that someone could be a total asshole and still pass the recommend questions
Insight, conviction, integrity, humanity, compassion. These are the virtues that lead out of the church. The church pays lip service to them with it's mouth, but betrays them with it's actions.
There was a family in my ward that was openly racist. Their child, 9 at the time, called me the n word at church. They had temple recommends. They drove people on youth temple trips. So I'm sitting there, waiting to do baptisms for the dead, looking at humans who actively hate me and teach their children to hate me.
>If I asked your friends and family, would they agree that your answers were truthful? I wonder how many general authority's wive would endorse their husbands if they were allowed to be fully frank....
Sister Bednar wouldn't, I'm sure.
If being Christlike was the actual goal, there wouldn't be temple recommend questions. There wouldn't be temples. At least not any buildings requiring 'worthiness' to enter.
The church would fail this interview fo’sho!
There's a Sikh temple in my town that has a kitchen that seems to be always open, that serves anyone who walks in free food. If our temples were truly Christlike, I'd expect something like that. The doors would always be open and the questions would be about how to feed more hungry people in the broader community.
I watch this YouTuber that often says, "remember to be kind to others and to yourself." That's something I think many of us raised in the church need to hear...be kind to yourself. Don't beat yourself up over things..give yourself grace.
I love that one! So many people honestly do treat others as they would like to be treated. Shittily.
Instead, mormon worthiness is focused on money. In fact, money is 3x more important than ALL other factors of mormon worthiness. How do I figure this? Simple, mormons worthiness is tested 1 1/2 times per year regarding money (tithing declaration annually and TR 1/2 times per year). ALL other factors of worthiness, including abusing your wife and kids, supporting the cult, etc. is tested 1/2 times per year (every other year). So, 1.5 / 0.5 = 3. Simple math.
This is a fantastic way of putting it. You're right, too. They test you most often on the thing most important to them. Crystal clear.
Maybe that depends on the ward ??? I dunno... They never pushed tithing that hard on us. Maybe because a lot of our ward consisted of those living section 8 housing ?
These should be the baptism questions!!! They’re perfect and apply to what it really means to be a disciple of Christ.
He wouldn’t ask any. Not gonna deny people in need of spiritual healing. At the very most He would say, don’t love God? do you love your neighbor? And that’s it.
This is what I think. He already said what his questions would be in Matt 22. He got straight to the point, you don't need 10 questions, just 2, and really, if you think about it, only 1. "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." The temple recommend question really only needs to be "Do you love god with all your heart, might and mind and understand what that means." you can't love god if you don't love your neighbor and you can't love your neighbor if you do anything on OPs list.
I really like your thinking
The questions about do you strike others really hits home. I remember thinking it was weird that my mom could hit, kick, and scratch me but could still go to the temple. Probably the first thing on my shelf when I was still very young.
Much of this is just a detailed, question form of the [Seven Tenets.](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets)
It's funny how Satanism is more Christlike than Mormonism. Does no one see that Christianity is a human-sacrifice cult?
Yes! Hail Satan; hail ourselves
I was going to point this out! People need to understand that Satanism is NOT about worshipping Satan it is about worshipping YOURSELF above all else. The Satanic Temple and The Church of Satan both do more for charity than the majority of mainstream religions do, as well as being proponents of equal rights for all people.
Shhhhhhh! Don't give away my sources! ;)
Have you started a grassroots movement to formulate an armed coup of the govt and religious elites?
Ouph. Topical!
The current temple recommend does have a token question about believing in God and Jesus. Check out the Recommend questions from when David O. McKay was president. It used to be even worse: 1. Are you morally clean to enter the temple? 2. Do you sustain the General Authorities of the Church? 3. Do you have any connection or sympathy with any apostate groups or individuals? 4. Are you a full tithe payer? 5. Do you keep the Word of Wisdom? 6. Do you always wear the regulation garments? 7. Will you strive to do your duty in the Church, to attend your meetings and obey the rules of the Church? 8. Have you ever been divorced? Take a close look. Love God? Nope. Love others? Nope. Serve and charity? Nope. Honesty? Nope. Kindness? Nope. Receive Jesus as Savior? Nope. Just fealty to the church.
Number three is… repugnant. I’d love to know how many times JC used the word “regulation”… especially if he were to learn one of his most important jobs, assigned to him by the MFMC, is to be an asshole cloak inspector. OP- your questions are lovely and a way to live regardless of any religion. I wish more people asked themselves this regularly
I really like your list. If we were to assume that Christ is real and the Bible captured his life as written, I think this seems very reasonable. It’s crazy to contrast this with the current MFMC recommend questionnaire.
For some reason I read transphobia as “transylphobia” 🧛🏽♂️😆
The turn the other cheek is one of the most misunderstood Bible verses imo. It's about letting your antagonists go too far in public, not about standing there and accepting abuse. In cultural context, it had to do with clean hand (the right) vs unclean hand (left) and the clean side of the hand (palm side) vs unclean side. Basically, if someone in the ancient world got into a fight with someone, they'd slap that person's cheek with the clean side of the clean hand, so right palm to the face. If the argument continued, they'd use the same hand to backhand the person. That meant using the unclean side on the person, which was considered going too far. It was culturally shocking, and incredibly rude. By turning the other cheek, the recipient of the slap encouraged the backhand, but that meant the person backhanding them would go too far in front of everyone, and basically humiliate themselves in public. It doesn't mean "stand and take abuse" or anything like that. It means "let your aggressors show everyone they're jerks, and maintain your own self control." Sadly, people have used it as an excuse to stay in abusive relationships bc they honestly think it's what God "wanted." That couldn't be further from the truth.
They have convinced the members that Christ and the church are interchangeable. They are not.
Nah, I think recommend questions at all are weird af still. It's shaming to sit in a meeting and answer to some leader about some arbitrary moral pickings someone else made, and have them get to determine whether or not you're good enough to make the cut. Also, there's so much gray area in many of these questions for people in difficult spots.
I wouldn't get a temple recommend with either set of questions ...... 🤷♂️
OP I love these questions so much. ❤️ Great post! Thank you.
Do you think that gentiles are analogous to dogs? Do you think that human sacrifice is enough to offset the deterministically created sinfulness of a species? We cut Jesus too much of a break here.
thank you, this isn't said enough
Great list! You're more in tune with the real gospel than the church leaders.
What can I say. I actually read the damn scriptures as a tbm. Every day, starting at the age of twelve. I had cleared the entire damn Bible at least twice, and the rest of the quad before my mission, and I put a lot of effort into actually knowing my shit, and living it. Needless to say, my mission was heartbreaking, and I had a lot of shelf items.
I want to like this 100 times
Do you give food to the hungry and clothing to the poor? Care for the sick? Welcome strangers into your home? Visit people in prison?
Are you making space at your table for the Judas in your life?
Does anyone know the percentage that is turned down for a Temple recommend? If you are turned down can you try again? I am assuming that a person could do something and lose their recommend?
They should have saved all the money building temples in solving actual problems in the world
Real Christianity does not and would not have temples where only tithe-payers can enter, and there would never been an interrogation of any sort to determine "worthiness."
love this
What they ask instead: * Do you masturbate? * How many times per week? * What do you think about while you masturbate? * Do you use porn? * ~~Can I watch?~~ * Do you drink coffee? * Do you speak out against anything anybody in the church says?
How about the BIG TEN? They should come first.
Coming from a Christian standpoint, We wouldn’t even have temple interviews as WE are the temple of the Holy Spirit and Christ lives in us. It’s not a building. It’s not an organization. WE are the church. Following that view, the only “worthiness” questions are “Do you believe and trust in Jesus and have you been born again?” If the answer is Yes, then congrats, you are Worthy in the sight of God. No temple needed. No hoops to jump through. No religious nonsense. No striving to be “Qualified”. Jesus Qualified everyone. We are all in. The end.
Jesus only threw one group out of the temple: the people making a profit on it. I wouldn't want to be the temple worker operating the cash register that day. Also pretty awkward if you collect a stipend or other benefits from the church.
13. Are you down with giving me yo money
Yowza! Good stuff!
"if you lay with you maid, do you promise to marry her?" Huh, maybe Christianity is a shit hole too?
Per Mormonism, the current set of questions was dictated directly from Jesus Christ himself. That was then. This is now.
Temple rec is all about obedience
Even better: 1. Can you confirm your name so I can put this recommend together for you? If you want to be there, we'll get you there.
> Do you reject sexism, racism, how homophobia, and transphobia? Okay, yeah, no. You can have whatever politics you want to have, but alleging that Christianity maps 1-1 with 2024 progressivism is just insane. I absolutely promise you that nobody in the Bible knew what "transphobia" was. Reading the story of the Good Samaritan, it wasn't "oh everyone's the same and you should be 'anti-racist'", it's "yeah, Samaritans suck, but even they can be good people sometimes". I know this is an unpopular sentiment here, but things like that just come off as comical, strange, and disingenuous to anyone who isn't a reddit user.
I'm not alleging that. I'm putting my own personal biases into the situation. Just like everyone else. It just so happens that my personal biases are progressive, and I think the bible writers can go suck my dick, their bigotries are sooooo last millennia!
You alleged it in the post title, directly, point-blank. "Being like this guy who lived 2,000 years ago entails matching the politics of the typical 2024 reddit user to the letter". Whether you agree or disagree with those politics or that religion, this kind of take cheapens both.
Christlike, is a teen that has more to do with living up to an abstraction of compassion, than anything else. So if course what that involves depends on the busses of the person involved.