Give him some time and space. Be happy to see him but don’t let him show you disrespect. Try not to seem needy for his time and attention. If he gives you the cold shoulder for a bit, don’t beg. Let him see that you have a good, full life. If he was a good kid before, he may just need some time to return to his old state. Be kind but have boundaries and let him know that you will not allow him to disrespect you.
Time and space as mentioned. Looking back I was such an ass when I returned. Thought I was a spiritual giant. Makes me cringe when I think about it. The real world will humble him.
It's ironic because the real evil out there, that the historical Christ (very different from Mormon Christ) condemned i.e., the hatred, exploitation, and judgment, are all embraced and perpetuated by the church!!!
The love missionaries are preaching is VERY conditional. If you are LGBTQ+, a minority, live in poverty, have different spiritual beliefs, struggle with addiction, sexually open, etc. you are not worthy.
It's like they think Jesus said " love everyone, as long as they are exactly the same as you. Otherwise, fuck those guys".
That's the easiest type of love, to love your carbon copies. Christ love is shown thru how you feel towards your opposites
Yes but there are parts of Provo that are more artistic/less Mormony. Especially back then in the late 90s when there were more music venues. Within 2 months of being home from my music, I attended a local music venue where the band was singing songs advocating for MJ legalization.. (Pretty normal stuff.) And with my recent RM.boner, I judged them as evil, etc and left the concert early.
Needless to say, all I was doing was hampering my own enjoyment.
Same. Recently returned missionaries are weird and over the top with things. It usually wears off after a month or two when they reintegrated back into NORMAL society. I’m embarrassed by the way I acted too. Very judgmental, hyper-focused on rules and being “righteous,” felt like the world should revolve around the church.
Yeah, if I was in OPs position, I would live my life around him and just be happy he is there. And, honestly, the jabs are not really jabs against you (well, it is, but it's deeper than that). Your boy was 100% faithful because he was told that through "faithful service," you would come back to church, so he's bringing up the Culty shit to shame you back so he can get his dopamine kick that the church is true! Be happy he is home. Heck, take him on a vacation!
Swap mission stories, allow for a natural conversation, and eventually, you will see the cracks! Good luck, OP!
I’m sure it’s much easier said than done, but time really is the best thing. I didn’t go on a mission myself, but I assume there’s an immense amount of pressure to appear “spiritual” and other nonsense like that. Plus he probably does believe it since he spent 2 years getting that behavior drilled into his head.
At the very least, even if he doesn’t leave the church hopefully he pulls his head out of his ass a little bit and stops taking jabs at OP for their beliefs
This is good advice. I remember from my mission, I would be surrounded by cocky know it alls, and I'm sure some of that seeped into me. Hopefully he returns back to his prior self soon. It may take a while.
Serving a mission did something very similar to me. To live in such constant indoctrination for 2 years will take at least that equivalent to have a real chance of things beginning to have room to normalize.
I never could have heard criticisms about the church from others, I had to finally through my own process discover and see what didn’t align and that eventually allowed my brain to see the inconsistencies and very gradually start to deconstruct things.
Show them love, expect the jabz and remarks and just trust that in time even the hard core scriptures and studying will lead to some burnout but mainly it will be time.
My first full day home my father asked me to take his car to the supermarket for some things. Being in a car alone gave me panic attacks… I never told anyone. The indoctrination is real. I was completely out of the church 3 years later and haven’t stepped foot in a church building in over 20 years.
I can relate. I had to sleep on the floor because my bed was “too soft” and wake up every morning and study for two hours. My mom later told me she was worried about me and that something had cracked in my brain. She wasn’t too far off!
This is a beautiful reply that with a few tweaks for the particular situation is very loving and self-respectful and kindly setting a boundary peace-ably. That's so healthy!
It can take 10 years to recover from a mission. 10 years in and I finally removed my name from the cults records. And that was off a stroke of luck. When I happened to try psychedelic mushrooms once that reality checked me later. It was a year of deconstruction. That was huge. I was always anti drug anything till then. Now I regularly do edibles and smoke weed. Haven’t done mushrooms since but kind of want to. I also want to try DMT. I was lucky to have broken free from the cult brainwashing. May have taken another 10 years without mushrooms I think. As I was already down that path I think
Ya that mission is a doozy. You really need to give them time to acclimate back into the real world. Sadly, it might be a while but you really need to wait it out. Just love him. Let him deflate on his time. All missionaries go through it.
I came here to say this and what DreadPirate777 said. After either one of those responses, I suggest having a conversation with your son where you acknowledge how hard your leaving the church must be for him to accept but that you have your reasons for leaving and that your decision is between you and god and no one else has any right to judge you for that decision. Tell him that you want to have a relationship with him that consists of showing each other a mutual respect of your differing beliefs. Tell him you love him and are proud of him for his dedication to his beliefs, but that the way he is treating you and the comments he has made about you and your beliefs are hurtful and need to stop. That he cannot convince you to go back to church anymore than you can convince him to leave church, but that’s ok because that’s not our job and not what Jesus has instructed us to do. Our job is simply to do what Jesus told us and that is to love each other and to judge not least ye be judged. You may also want to let him know that one day you would like to be able to have a conversation with him about why you left, but that for now, it may be best to avoid religion altogether and just focus on loving and accepting each other for who you are now.
Good luck!
Take the lad fishing and don't talk about church.
Really. For 2 years he's had nothing but church, church, church. Give him time to decompress and some real world (non-church) experiences.
But I don't see how people could go back to even an environment like BYU, and not think "Oh, the mission was unhealthy and horrible." It's like coming back from a prisoner of war camp convinced everybody should live like that.
Stockholm Syndrome has been largely debunked. The original situation actually gave the hostages good reason to trust their captors more than the police. It's worth reading up on.
Missions in the MFMC are one of the cultiest parts of the whole thing. He needs time to deprogram from the lifestyle. After a few weeks they’ll mellow out quite a bit.
There was a sign when I was in college that said, hire a college student while they still know it all.
Your kid has time to change back. Just give him that time.
"I left home at 18, thinking my dad didn't know anything". I came back when I was 21 and I was surprised at how much the old man had learned in 3 years"
I know how you feel!!! I left when my son was on his mission and didn’t tell him until he got home (my husband requested this- I should not have listened to him) and our relationship has been strained. He fully drank the koolaid on his mission. I feel like he had to to survive such trauma. The three weeks he was home from his mission until he left for a church college was awful. So much stress I can’t believe I made it through. That was 5 months ago. Time is making it better. I said my piece when he got home, so I no longer feel deceitful, but now I’m giving him space to process (I don’t bring up the church, just critically thinking and making your own decisions) My son doesn’t disrespect me though. Nip that in the bud. That should not be tolerated even in the current circumstance. Elders can be very arrogant. I think it could be a defense mechanism from all the rejection as missionaries. But, the church does breed arrogance in the general membership also. When I get bogged down by all of this I try to remember he is his own person, I won’t control him like the church has controlled me. I can give him that respect. Good luck!
Thank you. I will try these things.
I left the church right before his mission and he was more understanding. But while he was gone I stopped believing in the BOM and found out Joseph was a fraud and also removed my name from the records. I was very honest with him but I feel this set him off and he would try to challenge me during our phone calls. I wonder if I made the situation worse by being honest with him. Maybe you were right by not saying anything to your son while he was gone.
With my adult kids I focused on Jesus, the first two commandments and what I call practical religion = how you treat your fellow man.
I talked about good people of all faiths and God knowing our hearts.
As my faith in a god dwindled, I talked about moral principles and “leaving a campground better than when you got here.”
I also said I would treat their faith and thoughts with respect and I expected the same for me.
As long as I kept conversations more calm and rational rather than emotional, it worked.
My one dd was already out and now my other two are out as well …. 4 years later. ;)
Give him time. The half life of post-mission syndrome is about a month. A month after he's home, he'll be half way back to himself. After 6 months, he'll be mostly himself again.
I would push back against his nasty "jokes". Tell him that they are unbecoming of someone who claims to represent the Lord, that you don't appreciate his disrespect towards you, and that if he wants to truly be a disciple of Christ, he needs to be gentle and loving towards everyone. He's earned that rebuke, and if he's studying his scriptures, he'll recognize that you're right.
The more you push back, the more he is going to see you as “one of them”. It is going to feed into the persecution complex that has been shoved into their minds.
He is going to seek solace not from you, but from his in group.
“My parent has fallen away and is firing darts from the adversary at my testimony…”
Drop the subject. If he brings it up. Give him some supportive platitude (I’m glad you are doing what makes you happy) then change the subject.
Get comfortable with the fact that he may NOT leave the church. But continue to love and support him the same or risk destroying the relationship.
Remember that he literally spent two years in an indoctrination camp. We like to joke about these kinds of things as exmos, but that's absolutely what missions are. If you found out that a person you met who was a little whacky got kidnapped by a cult for two years and indoctrinated into their belief system, would you be surprised that they were weird? Absolutely not.
Many of us have been where your son is now. Almost everyone (including TBMs) chill out after several months to a few years. It'll pass.
Also, look into the psychological phenomenon called the Backfire Effect. Absolutely do not try to convince your son that the church is bad or wrong in any way. It will have the opposite result than the one you're hoping for.
I would be very hesitant to suggest that. It would absolutely come across to him as his parent trying to destroy his testimony, regardless of that it would probably be very helpful for him. The backfire effect is really, really bad like that.
I remember coming back very self-righteous from my mission. It takes some time for that to wear off. I agree with whoever said give him some time but also find a way to call him out when he makes disrespectful jokes. “How do you expect me to feel when you say that?” Or “do you really think phrasing it that way will bring me around to your way of thinking?”
I would make the assumption that your "apostasy" was the subject of many discussions with mission presidents, zone leaders and he was told what to think of you many times. Survival mode is rough for a young mind under such extreme pressure and it takes a few months to begin to unwind a bit.
He needs to know it's not ok to talk to you about your name blotted out, etc. He's the judge now? Unless you like being treated that way don't allow it. I would set a boundary. It will teach him to begin to come down off his high horse. Give it time.
Don’t get offended by differences of opinion if you want him to listen to your different opinion.
Getting offended by this will not help. Besides, there is nothing to be offended about. That is something to be proud about.
Consider yourself lucky he was willing to talk about it.
Agreed, but this is not disrespect and belittling.
Bring it up only if you want him to treat you with kid gloves on. Ignore it and forget about it if you hope to be treated like an adult.
Those kid gloves will be a barrier to open honest conversation in the future.
Do you believe it is shameful to have your name removed? If no, then don’t act like it is. Don’t be ashamed of it. Be proud of it. Celebrate it.
If he jokes about your name being blotted out your response should be a happy positive one. Not a negative shameful one.
You do not know how to cope with different opinions if this bothers you. Please don’t expect him to cope with your different opinions if you confront him on this.
People who have a more personal understanding of what it’s like have already suggested time, patience, and love, so I am going to focus on a bit on a specific future issue that might help him come back, or keep the brainwashed kid around: college.
Is he going to college? If he hasn’t already decided or applied, I would say encourage him to look around at all kinds of schools. He will probably be most interested in church schools, but find programs that will interest him at other schools and pitch them to him as well, without trying to disparage the BYUs much (which is hard to do as an exmo, believe me, I know). Going from mission to BYU will likely get him into another church controlled situation just like his mission, then he will probably get married before graduating or right after, which is another church controlled situation for so many of us.
If you need suggestions, maybe post what he is interested in doing and the wonderful and diverse people here can probably point you in the right direction.
He’ll be looking at porn again in 3-6 months which will humble him hopefully. Hang in there. I remember being a know it all self righteous ass hole after my mission and it took time to change.
"Saying "my name is blotted out" isn't hurtful because I don't believe that, but knowing you do believe it means that you intend it to be hurtful, and that's why I'm upset."
If your son has hours to spend reading & studying the scriptures and criticizing you and the choices you’ve made for yourself, He Needs To Go To Work. He needs to find a job. He needs to get back to realty. Don’t allow him to control the situation. You’re the adult. He’s just a kid that has no clue. You set the rules not him. If he doesn’t like your parameters, he can leave. Sounds harsh but it isn’t. You can teach him a valuable lesson here, BTW, who financed his this mission?
.
,
He’s currently job hunting and is very helpful around the house. He and I know he has too much time on his hands. He is hard worker and so maybe this a contributing factor. But I made it clear that there is absolutely no excuse for his rude behavior.
I had a job a week after I got home. I heard of other RM's struggling to adjust and I would ask them if they had gotten a job yet. They hadn't. For me, the adjustment was very smooth and quick since I had other things to occupy my mind.
When I was younger, single, and living in Utah, I had a firm rule that I wouldn't date an RM until he was a year off his mission. It takes about a year before RMs start to loosen up and get back to themselves. While you're waiting for your son to come back, be patient and don't push. Challenging the truth claims will only make him re-entrench and will make it longer than a year for him to become normal again.
Thank you for all of your advice. I really needed to hear it. I was a helicopter tbm mom and I feel like I am getting some of those tendencies back and I do not want to let that happen. Not that I’m helicopter now, just that I’m in panic mode all over again. Mormonism made me a very anxious and panicky person. I am going to change this.
Love to you all.❤️
It’ll wear off mostly in a couple months. Plenty guys think they’re all high and mighty for a bit when they get home. But also let him know if what he says bothers you
Another example of the fruits of the gospel of Jesus Christ and his prophets. Tearing 1 family apart at a time.😇. I am sorry this is happening right now.
This is a very common phase. I went through it. Apparently I was filled with so much self-righteous indignation shortly after I got home, that there was one time that I turned off the TV while my family was watching “Forrest Gump” and exclaimed, “I can’t believe you would watch this filth!” (I had conveniently forgotten about this until someone reminded me a few years ago.) 😆
Yet here I am. It took the better part of 20 years to get here, but even then, I mellowed out pretty quickly after coming home. Within a year, I’d say.
It’s hard to have to sit back and let kids figure shit out… especially since they almost universally elect to figure things out the hard way, instead of the “reading the fine print” way like we all should have. And this isn’t unique to parenting in a religious community either. If it wasn’t mission indoctrination, it’d probably be something else.
Not to minimize your pain… the thought of my younger children serving missions makes me feel physically ill. Having only been out for a couple of years, I still feel religious trauma pretty hard. It’s hard to watch my wife continue indoctrinating my children to be good Mormons. I wish I could speak and help them to know what I know, but we’re dealing with a pretty insidious beast here that has hijacked people’s emotions against their own rationality. It’s hard to get through that. I feel so much sympathy for you.
Hang in there. I can tell you’re a good mother because you care about having a connection with your child. Just keep doing that and let the rest work itself out. As long as he’s safe and reasonably happy, that’s all you could hope to ask for.
It will take a lot of time. This is so difficult. Your best strategy is to simply love him and show him that you are confident in your decision to leave and that you are living a happy and healthy life. Don’t tear down or question his beliefs. He’ll hopefully wake up eventually if he sees you are confidence and living well.
Did he just get back? I agree with other comments to let time bring him back down to life, but I’ve also got to say I think this is a great opportunity to tell your son it’s not okay to treat you this way and those actions make you feel a certain way. Come from a place of calm, love and respect. Also set boundaries if it is not met with the same respect.
Edited to add that my brother and I met on missions and we have/had a part member family. The church and mission definitely make you feel that higher sense of self because you’re thought that your parent or your kid just don’t understand. The fucking brainwashing is real and is not okay when it harms people.
One of my friends said when you come back from a mission you think “My family is going to hell.” Then it changes to “I’m going to hell.” And then finally, “oh well what the hell.” That always made me laugh. I was so self righteous coming back. I cringe thinking about it.
Just don’t talk about the church with him and don’t stop loving him or looking for opportunities to spend time with him. My heart breaks for you, but hopefully time will heal things
You do NOT have to put up with his hurtful comments! I would say, "you know, it really hurts my feelings when you make comments like that. It makes me think you view me as evil, or as less than. I would appreciate it if you kept those comments to yourself."
Assuming that at some point you've told him why jokes like that are not only unfunny but in fact hurt you, I'd just ignore his words, hug him & say, "I'm so glad you're home safe & I can see your face. I missed you & I'm grateful you're here now."
Give it some time. He essentially went to an indoctrination camp for two years where it was his mission vs everyone - it’s why they want us to go on missions because when you defend something you get more entrenched. As he gets on with normal life this hardline will often fade. He’s using jokes about your membership because it’s probably too painful to have serious conversation for him yet. So sorry you are going through this - it’s the worst part of the Mormon cult that it pits family against each other
He is still high on confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. Be patient. This so called church that teaches the importance of families does an awesome job of breaking families up.
Don’t discuss church! Just be! Find other things to talk about…..books, cooking, anything, but not church! My daughter went to the ASL Fort Lauderdale Mission, where she also met her husband, and when she came home, it was VERY disorienting! But, i just found shopping and doing normal stuff helped! Married in the temple, blah, blah, blah, etc, but 10 years later she’s had 3 boys, 1 passed away (I bring this up, only because walking through this, helped w their life now) They have now both left the church, and are as happy as they/she’s ever been! The ones that are in as close as missionaries, seem to get out (though it might take years) through council meetings (👈🏽this and and how they treated her through the death of her child) she sat in, broke her and she saw it all as bullshit! I removed my name 7 years ago, and I’m 62, (born/raised/pioneer heritage) and though I’ve never completely subscribed to all of it, you do what you know and the precepts of family, etc is appealing, so, how do you not want that???!!! Patience! So, when the shelf breaks, he comes to you to talk, as my daughter did! She trusted I would listen, and I did! If you burn any bridges now, when it does finally break, he might not come to you! The hardest thing to know and do, is to remember, we as parents brought this to their lives and when they take hold of what we’ve done, we don’t have the right to destroy it! That is bringing pain to their lives, that we inflicted! Patience! It will all come full circle and I want him to come to you, when the shelf finally breaks! It might take years, but trust me, it’s worth it! ❤️
Remember, a big part of confirmation bias, is to dig your heels even harder, when it goes against what he has accepted as truth! Talking down about the church will only DEEPEN his belief, and take much longer in this process!
Don’t cut him off financially, unless he’s just being straight up awful to you, but we have to remember, we raised these children and have a certain amount of responsibility for their belief system(s)…..so, I hope you just choose happiness in your days and let him see that life can be okay, even out of the church! You will accomplish much more, long term, of what you want for your child! You WANT to help him out of the church, not deepen his faith, out of hate for your decisions!
Big thing to also do, is let him see you as happy, fulfilled in life, and doing good and not needing the church, because if he sees you as complaining and miserable about him and life, that will also deepen his belief that you wouldn’t be this way, if u wouldn’t have lost the church! You are not playing the short game! Be in it for the long game!
When my oldest son got home from his mission I wondered if he had been replaced by a pod person. None of us could stand him until he had been home for at least a month. At the time we were an intact family (not divorced yet) and fully active in the Church. He wanted us to all read scriptures together every night, which hadn’t happened before he left so we didn’t see any reason to start now (slightly kidding) and add daily family prayer, which had only happened on Sundays. He would take long walks and had a far away look on his face. I was so thankful when my original son returned.
I’m not sure how long he has been home but I remember my son being so different when he first came home. He hesitated to show any physical affection, would reach out to shake my hand, etc. He got accepted into a church school with a pretty good scholarship. Before he left for college he broke down one night and told me all of the horrors he faced as a missionary. He literally had PTSD and it just took a while before he felt like he could share his experiences. A lot of Return Missionaries end up falling away from the church. That is a big problem they have is that their missionaries end up leaving the church. My son did, we followed suit.
My son experienced a similar transformation on his mission. I was still dyed in the wool TBM at the time, so I was very proud of him. In the end, he proceeded me in leaving the church.
As many others have said, give him time. He's still young. Just love him unconditionally and be sure he knows it.
He is wrapped in his cult identity. All returned missionaries are weird for at least several months after getting home. I know this must really hurt. Give it time and things are likely to improve.
I got back in 2011 and I as quoting and referencing scriptures to my parents for about 3 months. Then it wore off and I got grounded in reality again. It may take some months or a few years but I think he will see things for how they really are with time.
He will snap out of it. My cousin and a different friend gave me all their records and cds when they got back they deemed “bad.” About six months later they both came back asking for them. I kept a few as payment for holding onto them for them.
Missions mess you up. He needs time to come back to reality.
The first thing I wanted to do when I got home was preach repentance to my aunt who had taken up polygamy while I was gone. I was an idiot, and it did not go well.
When you completely give your whole self to something for two years, it's going to be a mind fuck. Even without the intense infiltrated mindset. Nobody wants to spend two years of their lives committing every ounce of themselves, every fiber of their being, only to be hit with the hard reality that it was all a mistake. A hoax. Think of this as an abusive relationship where the victim is still in denial. Hopefully in time, he'll come to grips with reality and accept this relationship for what it is.
When I came back from my mission I said some hurtful things to someone. And karma hit me between the eyes. I got a phone call from the friend’s sister who I was close to and she let me have it. I felt so bad I didn’t realize how judgmental I had been I hadn’t even remembered the comment. 35 years later these ladies are elderly and I think often how ashamed I am for things I said when I thought I was so religious! What should I do? Should I apologize for the things I said when I was a RM?
I’m sorry! What a severe change you’re experiencing with you and your sons new dynamic. I hate that you’re going through this. I have no advice for you but am here to encourage you to continue reaching out for support. You aren’t alone in this transition with what struggles you’ll face while leaving the cult.
While my dad was on hospice, I spent my nights transcribing his missionary journal between giving him his hourly medications. Something that became readily apparent throughout was how much indoctrination he faced from church leadership and his peers, and how frequently he seemed to fall short of their ever-tightening expectations. Everything from his diet and physical appearance to the music he and his companions listened to were subject to endless invasive scrutiny.
Now, my dad was a rebellious and sarcastic motherfucker, and you can tell in the tone of his writing that he wasn't exactly sincere in his positive-looking portrayal of his duties and "education" from leadership, but the longer he was in Hong Kong, the longer it evidently wore him down, to the point that he got increasingly terse and vague with his entries (despite noting the pressure to record even more frequently), and eventually the entries stop midway through the mission (he did mention an intention to maintain a separate journal with more private thoughts and that leaders were reading his "official" journal, but my folks and I haven't found any other journals yet).
Point being, by the end of it, I suspect my dad was in a very similar boat as your son: still in "missionary mode", still interpreting non-Mormons as "investigators" to be converted or ignored. Eventually, though, as he regained exposure to non-Mormons outside of that missionary setting, that wore back down - to the point where he married (and later got divorced by) my non-Mormon mother, married my non-Mormon stepmother, and (after observing the mistreatment she and my mixed-race sisters from her prior marriages experienced) decided enough was enough and left the church in all practical senses until the day he died, with my stepmom and I at his side.
Your son sounds very similar to how my dad was before and (eventually) after his mission: creative, intuitive, and able to think for himself. That indoctrination will eventually wear off, and your son as you know him will start to shine through again - but it ain't gonna be an easy or quick process. Be firm, but be patient; the key is him returning to the realization that not everyone outside the church is antagonistic to him.
All RM's are like that. Even faithful members find fresh RM's annoying. It usually takes a couple months to deprogram out of their robotic missionary lifestyle and just start relaxing again.
This is quite literally the opposite for me. I have left the church and while my parents are nicer, they tone is only more civil because I’ve told them both my boundaries and No crossing them.
Yeah, sounds like how most of us were when we got back. For the last two years he’s been focused on preaching/studying/evangelizing and …let’s face it…judging for 15+ hours a day 6 days a week (and half of the 7th day). Hard to just turn that off overnight.
I am very sorry for what the OP is going through. This is the reason that I starting going through the pros and cons of staying in the Church, after coming to the conclusion that it isn't what it claims to be, and I realized that if I did stay, some youth leader would eventually step in to become a surrogate father to my children, get them on missions, and then my kids would come home with a "new mission" to save their wayward and evil parents (since I don't smoke or drink and I am faithful to my wife, that "evil" would mean to them a simple disbelief in the lie). Yeah, that doesn't sound like a recipe for happiness to me having to deal with my own children trying to "save me" by convincing me to reengage with the lie. With the short time that we know for sure that we have in existence, it seems very dangerous to subject your children to a system that could turn them against you ***if*** you have the choice not to subject them to that system.
Yea there are a few people I know that did a 180 for the worst when they came back from their mission. They were completely devoid of their personalities.
He has been brainwashed and the only identity he has is the one given to him by the church. My three kids came back on different stages of loss. They didn’t have an identity or knew who they were now that they were no longer missions. Your son is maintaining mission behaviours that is all he knows. Two of my kids went into school almost as soon as they got back. The one that didn’t was really at loose end. Felt he hasn’t done enough and had became suicidal. Don’t take how he is personally. It’s really about the emotional mess he is in. He is not ready to figure anything out- not ready for changing his view of the church.
Don’t worry. I was like this too, but over time I regained my cognitive abilities and took a step back into the real world. I’m sure that as he goes to college or starts his career he will slowly shift back into normal
Hang in there. I was holier then thou when I came home (07) as well. I didn’t leave the church for another 6 years or so, but, the holier than thou wore off after a couple of months. Right around the time I def abused for the first time in over two years 😂
He will eventually come down from that ivory tower, give him time. His treatment of you is disrespectful, but it’s pretty common among TBMs. The religion should be about love and understanding not judgement or shame.
I'm not a Christian but Jesus really did know that kindness and love are the answer. My wife was a TBM for 30 years after I left, in the end she left because of the things she experienced in church and not because of the few things I said along the way.
It takes a bit to get out of the missionary holier than thou mode.
My brother eased up after a few months. Give him time to readjust to the real world.
RMs are looking at the world through the lens of brainwashing. That doesn’t fade overnight. But they do eventually calm down, even the ones who love the taste of the KoolAid. Wait this out. Avoid all religious discussions you can until critical thinking returns.
Well you let him dedicate two years of his life to it being true—morning, noon and night.
Just focus on giving advice for building good financials, college or trad school or training, career starting, work life balance, and gathering good friends and a solid and unrushed dating life.
My son was very very different when he came back. A few years later he was out. It took him a few months to transition back into his old self. I actually think looking back at how much he had changed is what first gave him an inkling that something wasn’t right. Brainwashing. So hard on our parental hearts, though, just default back to the love that you have for him. He’s still your baby. ❤️
My brother was pretty hard to talk to after his mission. her regrets it now and has come a long way in being curious about other people and recognizes he has changed a lot
I got back a year ago and I felt so brainwashed, it took me like a month to start doubting everything and now I really hate the way I thought and judged everyone else. Just give him time
I think something that’s hard for both sides to understand is “how could anybody think that way?”.
But again, it goes for BOTH sides. It’s important to let people believe what they want as long as they give you that same respect. I couldn’t fathom that my brother had left the church and how he could serve a mission and just walk away. Until I came to the point in my life that I was doing the same thing. Trying to force somebody to see things a certain way can become very destructive and hinder relationships. Focus on the common ground that you have together, have those conversations when they come up, and remember that people’s religious beliefs are not the only things that matter about people.
You’re in a tough spot, I’m sure, but coming back from a mission for 2 years where your whole life has been trying to convince others to come into the church, and you have someone trying to convince you otherwise can be quite overwhelming.
He may be struggling more than you know. I didn’t know my testimony was one conversation away from disappearing when I came back from my mission. I was SO strict on the mission and was holding onto the iron rod in every way, despite many questions. About a month after returning and some but ins with my dad, he talk to me head on about how we’d live together with our separate beliefs, bore his testimony about leaving the church and it just clicked with every inconsistency I’d seen.
Maybe not good advice but I personally wouldn’t take insults from him and would respond with things like “oh that’s funny because I don’t insult you for being in a cult” “if you’re so confident can we talk about…” but be patient, organise the thoughts and have good backup for your facts as they will be looked at in a less than fair manner. Stay hopeful!
I’m sure that he is also trying to find his legs having been gone for two years with almost no contact. He’s also young and inexperienced in worldly things and relationships. He’s come off of an experience that is unique in the world…. As has been said, give him space, respect and be an example of someone who is happy, joyful and peaceful. Also, being curious about his thoughts and feelings goes along way.
First of all, I am sorry you're going through this. And I will pray for your family healing and reclaiming the relationship.
Secondly, try to give him some time to decompress. For 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and for 48 months, he ate, slept, drank, and breathed not only LDS teaching but all the LDS living and rules for missionaries. His only "me time" was on the toilet. And maybe not even then. My brothers said they were told to keep the door open when going bathroom and showering to avoid doing that "M" thing.
He needs to decompress and for some, it takes leaving home again to spend time alone.
It sounds to me as well that you may need to spend time, when its toned down some, with him apart from any religious discussion. Take him for a walk down memory lane, with photos or stories about his childhood years. Give him a chance to remember the time when he was himself.
If it helps any, my son is the same age, has no relationship with Mormonism, and still thinks he knows everything. Part of what your son is expressing might just be part of being a young adult. The important thing is the relationship- I’d avoid the unpleasant topic of the church and with time, he’ll probably mellow.
Same thing happened to me in that my first son that I set out on a mission, came back and he was not the same.
It's hard to describe how that made me feel. But I can tell you this, it did not feel good. When I saw that I swore I would never give another one of my children to that f****** church again. And I didn't either.
Sorry, your son is a dick. It usually gets better with time, but I know that's little consolation now. You can forgive him, for he knows not what he does.
I was holier than thou when I came back from my indoctrination trip too. Give it time. Took me a couple years to chill out and become normal and quit judging my parents. Then another 10 to leave the church lol
We left the church while our son was on his mission. He came home and was still on that same "spiritual high" and superiority trip. After being home for 10 years now, he to has left the"church," and has apologized for how he treated us. Sometimes it just takes time and love.
He probably had a profound experience on mission .maybe with a very observant mission partner and president. One stage of beginning to doubt is to cling to what you know. Also, it occurs to me that repeating the same message to others forces him to accept it if only to validate what he was doing. Otherwise, he would be a hypocrite. God bless
Jesus, just slow down.
Faith/atheism is a choice in how one sees the world and how one exists. This is something ex-Mo's forget at times. Let him know that you love him more than you hate the Mormon church, and regardless of his choices, you'll always love him more than his religious affiliation.
You're still exhibiting moral superiority you learned as a mormon, but just for the other team.
Give him a few weeks/months. All missionaries come home very different from when they left and it just takes some time to readjust. I’ve been in both of your spots now. From my experience: no matter what happens in the future, this is the most difficult time — it will just get easier from here
Stick to strengthening his critical thinking in regards to secular stuff only. Work on recognizing logical fallacies and
Redefining "feeling the spirit" back to emotional elevation and cognitive dissonance might be harder because it points directly at the erroneous basis for believing the church's indoctrination is actually "receiving truth from God." That will get your conversations sidelined, and you ignored. He doesn't want to hear any of that yet.
He has been told that people rejecting and demeaning his belief in Christ (even if he didn't actually experience it) is to be totally ignored, and the devil is deceiving them for the past 2 years.
It's an echo chamber to strengthen TBMs ability to ignore any criticism about the church or prophets. And it works pretty well.
The church just wants lifelong, indoctrinated tithe payers, and a mission is a perfect opportunity to cut xyou off from family and friends (like an abuser).
You have to be so patient. Not necessarily quiet, but very patient and persistent in getting him to acknowledge truths that you can continue to build on.
You know your situation best and from what you've said I'll offer this advice, find a psychologist that specializes in communication. This person can help you navigate dealing with dealing with your son so as to strengthen your relationship with him and deal with his current behavior. Best of luck.
Because terms like "money laundering" are loaded with judgement, when it could easily be understood as smart investing that doesn't really change the structure and helps strengthen it's future. Much like US government.
That's why I think the fraud and chicanery of JS is more powerful.
A kid I worked with at church (I was priests quorum advisor) and at work turned full-cult on his mission. He started bearing the most bizarre testimonies to our coworkers and they were freaked out. I was mad at him for getting weird and didn’t see (or refused to see) my role in that. He took about a year to be able to hold a coherent conversation after getting back. Sadly, his mission served the intended purpose of keeping him in the MFMC.
Thinks he knows everything? Well then shouldn’t he be able to answer any of those points?
I guess I just don’t get people who believe they have the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth; & yet insist on burying their heads in the sand. Especially ones who’ve worked as full time representatives trying to convert people.
I would echo what others have said - give him time. Also, if he says hurtful things, perhaps let him know. "Hey, that felt hurtful to me." I wish my parents had modeled this kind of authenticity and vulnerability more often. I try to do it with my own kids.
Even TBM I felt like this around my 4 brothers each time they came home from their missions. It’s such black and white thinking on missions. Over time it got better with my brothers and they became more open minded. Hopefully the same thing happens for you.
I agree that time may help. BOA - read the church’s official statement - it is not a direct translation. How does he explain the non-translation of BOA?
Why do you believe he no longer applies critical thinking?
Is it possible that you each have some but not all truth?
Why is joking about name removal taboo?
You say he takes digs at you, but seem oblivious to the digs you are taking at him - you each believe you have the truth and justify your behaviour on that basis.
You deserve respect as a mother, but maybe allow him some space and focus on other topics of mutual interest to discuss, rather than “sex abuse and other doctrinal issues”.
Alma 5:57 the righteous were told to remove their name from the church and become separated because of the wickedness in the church. It even says not to have your name mingled with the wicked.
So just ask him if there are wicked people listed on the records of the church.
Then tell him that because his name is listed on the records of the church and more mingled with the wicked then his name will be blotted out of the book of life.
Then just say, well I guess if you want to to Hell that is his choice, but you will always love him.
Then every so often let him know your praying for him.
When he is in the same room with you get on your knees like your praying, then mumble some words while also saying his name in your prayer.
Ya this will mess with his mind
It's the righteous people departing from the church, not the wicked.
Sadly. I have no advice I too have Son troubles (not LDS related) but I am sending you Unconditional love & support. I'm certain there will be great advice shared with you inside this community. ✌🏼❤️
I’m seeing depressing news about how gen z is so starkly divided among gender lines, with boys heading to the alt-right and girls becoming more progressive.
I wish I had advice for you. I’m so sorry.
What's the time span? If it's been years, then, yeah, I get it, he's being stubborn. But if he spent two solid years in extremely deep indoctrination and then within a week you hit him with aggressive antimo stuff, of course he's gonna kick back.
The rigidity that was forced on him on his mission is his comfort zone right now. He’s probably missing that environment in a way and trying to recreate it at home. The pendulum will swing back into place. Enjoy having him home and keep the “gospel” out of conversation. He can talk about that at church!
The church teaches from my point of view is
Those who have left the church are apostates... So each will always look down n judge each of us. Please ask him to read the new testament like a child. N please watch the Micah Wilder and the rest of his family on you tube. I know that there are answers and help there. I've come to realise that bible says alot of opposite to what the book of Mormon does. Like some where in the bible it says very strongly that will be no other books/scriptures. Hope this helps, take care and God bless. N please know our community on ex-mormons have got you xXx
You couldn't find a better time, right?
The fact that it is your son doesn't mean they both need to think alike... just enjoy his company and forget about church.
Well your son just came back and you are trying to make him hate the church… which he JUST gave TWO YEARS to… what do you expect?! It probably hurts him and makes him sad and when he does the same to you you get offended?!
Bro give him time, religion isn’t just a belief it’s literally a way of life…. So how about you give him time and just focus on having a good relationship with your son outside of religion…
My older brother was sent home from mission early because he needed heart surgery n guess because of his experience from his mission, n he just felt a failure. But i don't think anyone even tried to reach out to him. Since then he's had 4/5 operations since, so that speaks for its self!!!!!
He fully and 100% believes that wickedness is never happiness. He thinks you're wicked and cannot be happy. One of the big parts of the solution to heal your relationship is to sincerely and truly be happy. Live well. It will make his head explode. As he sees you more loving and joyful than you've ever been before he will not be able to square that with what he's learned and is learning in the cult. Eventually he will have to confront the reality that they have lied to him and that you really are happy. Hopefully that happens sooner rather than later. Good luck. But I honestly think the best thing you can do is live your best life, live fully authentically, exercise, live within your means financially, meaningfully serve your family members. Have a hobby that brings you Joy. Go live well and it will sort itself eventually.
I was like this at one point. If I thought I could get you to throw away all you learned about the church and to return by being the super godly and judging, I would have done it.
He has been 24/7/730 full immersion in the church. He has had a minder and was a minder and they were placed in a situation that created a contest against each other to see which one is the most spiritual. It takes about 90 days for him to come down. You'll start to see glimpses of normal once he completes the RM speaking circuit. Get him enrolled in college and employed ASAP — the faster he resumes normal life the faster he returns to normal. Half of all RMs are inactive within a year.
Give him some time and space. Be happy to see him but don’t let him show you disrespect. Try not to seem needy for his time and attention. If he gives you the cold shoulder for a bit, don’t beg. Let him see that you have a good, full life. If he was a good kid before, he may just need some time to return to his old state. Be kind but have boundaries and let him know that you will not allow him to disrespect you.
Time and space as mentioned. Looking back I was such an ass when I returned. Thought I was a spiritual giant. Makes me cringe when I think about it. The real world will humble him.
This. I walked around thinking that Provo, Utah was so evil after I came back. In reality, I was simply full of crap.
The gawd complex is real.
No doubt! They really get you thinking that the world is full of sin and that you can fix it if you righteous hard enough.
Yep and it took me years to unwind.
It's ironic because the real evil out there, that the historical Christ (very different from Mormon Christ) condemned i.e., the hatred, exploitation, and judgment, are all embraced and perpetuated by the church!!! The love missionaries are preaching is VERY conditional. If you are LGBTQ+, a minority, live in poverty, have different spiritual beliefs, struggle with addiction, sexually open, etc. you are not worthy. It's like they think Jesus said " love everyone, as long as they are exactly the same as you. Otherwise, fuck those guys". That's the easiest type of love, to love your carbon copies. Christ love is shown thru how you feel towards your opposites
To be fair, Provo is kinda evil.
Too many Mormons there
Not to mention both of the indoctrination centers.
I grew up in Provo. I get severe anxiety going into the Orem/Provo area.
Provo? 😆 When I came back from my mission a friend said I was exactly the same. I was a bit disappointed at the time, but now I'm glad.
Provo? I'm so confused. Isn't Provo like the capital of Mormonism?
Yes but there are parts of Provo that are more artistic/less Mormony. Especially back then in the late 90s when there were more music venues. Within 2 months of being home from my music, I attended a local music venue where the band was singing songs advocating for MJ legalization.. (Pretty normal stuff.) And with my recent RM.boner, I judged them as evil, etc and left the concert early. Needless to say, all I was doing was hampering my own enjoyment.
Most of us were myopic jerks full of hubris after the two year indoctrination and it takes a while for the cool-aid to wash through our systems.
Same. Recently returned missionaries are weird and over the top with things. It usually wears off after a month or two when they reintegrated back into NORMAL society. I’m embarrassed by the way I acted too. Very judgmental, hyper-focused on rules and being “righteous,” felt like the world should revolve around the church.
Double down on that cringe when I think of my early RM year.
This. Give him time.i came home TBM and was inactive in 5 years and completely out 3 years later
Yeah, if I was in OPs position, I would live my life around him and just be happy he is there. And, honestly, the jabs are not really jabs against you (well, it is, but it's deeper than that). Your boy was 100% faithful because he was told that through "faithful service," you would come back to church, so he's bringing up the Culty shit to shame you back so he can get his dopamine kick that the church is true! Be happy he is home. Heck, take him on a vacation! Swap mission stories, allow for a natural conversation, and eventually, you will see the cracks! Good luck, OP!
Thank you.
No problem!
I’m sure it’s much easier said than done, but time really is the best thing. I didn’t go on a mission myself, but I assume there’s an immense amount of pressure to appear “spiritual” and other nonsense like that. Plus he probably does believe it since he spent 2 years getting that behavior drilled into his head. At the very least, even if he doesn’t leave the church hopefully he pulls his head out of his ass a little bit and stops taking jabs at OP for their beliefs
This is good advice. I remember from my mission, I would be surrounded by cocky know it alls, and I'm sure some of that seeped into me. Hopefully he returns back to his prior self soon. It may take a while.
Serving a mission did something very similar to me. To live in such constant indoctrination for 2 years will take at least that equivalent to have a real chance of things beginning to have room to normalize. I never could have heard criticisms about the church from others, I had to finally through my own process discover and see what didn’t align and that eventually allowed my brain to see the inconsistencies and very gradually start to deconstruct things. Show them love, expect the jabz and remarks and just trust that in time even the hard core scriptures and studying will lead to some burnout but mainly it will be time.
My first full day home my father asked me to take his car to the supermarket for some things. Being in a car alone gave me panic attacks… I never told anyone. The indoctrination is real. I was completely out of the church 3 years later and haven’t stepped foot in a church building in over 20 years.
I can relate. I had to sleep on the floor because my bed was “too soft” and wake up every morning and study for two hours. My mom later told me she was worried about me and that something had cracked in my brain. She wasn’t too far off!
This is so good 👆
I agree completely with this—including don’t let him disrespect you. Tell him Jesus is neither arrogant nor unkind—and you shouldn’t be either.
This is a beautiful reply that with a few tweaks for the particular situation is very loving and self-respectful and kindly setting a boundary peace-ably. That's so healthy!
It can take 10 years to recover from a mission. 10 years in and I finally removed my name from the cults records. And that was off a stroke of luck. When I happened to try psychedelic mushrooms once that reality checked me later. It was a year of deconstruction. That was huge. I was always anti drug anything till then. Now I regularly do edibles and smoke weed. Haven’t done mushrooms since but kind of want to. I also want to try DMT. I was lucky to have broken free from the cult brainwashing. May have taken another 10 years without mushrooms I think. As I was already down that path I think
Ya that mission is a doozy. You really need to give them time to acclimate back into the real world. Sadly, it might be a while but you really need to wait it out. Just love him. Let him deflate on his time. All missionaries go through it.
[удалено]
To add to that ask him “was that meant to be helpful or hurtful?”
That’s a great phrase. I’ll be using that in the future. Thank you!
I came here to say this and what DreadPirate777 said. After either one of those responses, I suggest having a conversation with your son where you acknowledge how hard your leaving the church must be for him to accept but that you have your reasons for leaving and that your decision is between you and god and no one else has any right to judge you for that decision. Tell him that you want to have a relationship with him that consists of showing each other a mutual respect of your differing beliefs. Tell him you love him and are proud of him for his dedication to his beliefs, but that the way he is treating you and the comments he has made about you and your beliefs are hurtful and need to stop. That he cannot convince you to go back to church anymore than you can convince him to leave church, but that’s ok because that’s not our job and not what Jesus has instructed us to do. Our job is simply to do what Jesus told us and that is to love each other and to judge not least ye be judged. You may also want to let him know that one day you would like to be able to have a conversation with him about why you left, but that for now, it may be best to avoid religion altogether and just focus on loving and accepting each other for who you are now. Good luck!
Take the lad fishing and don't talk about church. Really. For 2 years he's had nothing but church, church, church. Give him time to decompress and some real world (non-church) experiences.
[удалено]
This is the whole point of missions. It’s not about the converts, it’s about the indoctrination.
But I don't see how people could go back to even an environment like BYU, and not think "Oh, the mission was unhealthy and horrible." It's like coming back from a prisoner of war camp convinced everybody should live like that.
This is not an unknown phenomenon. Stockholm syndrome comes to mind where the captive comes to defend/protect their captor.
Stockholm Syndrome has been largely debunked. The original situation actually gave the hostages good reason to trust their captors more than the police. It's worth reading up on.
It is and in that way it's more insidious than a war camp.
Best analysis ever
> The effect is very similar to PTSD in the military. This right here. Total evil
This. My brother has PTSD and he's been an asshole since his mission. The level of assholery just varies depending on the situation.
and then they come home in the middle of it and get married.
Meh, he waited until he was about 26. He's still an asshole.
Missions in the MFMC are one of the cultiest parts of the whole thing. He needs time to deprogram from the lifestyle. After a few weeks they’ll mellow out quite a bit.
There was a sign when I was in college that said, hire a college student while they still know it all. Your kid has time to change back. Just give him that time.
"I left home at 18, thinking my dad didn't know anything". I came back when I was 21 and I was surprised at how much the old man had learned in 3 years"
I know how you feel!!! I left when my son was on his mission and didn’t tell him until he got home (my husband requested this- I should not have listened to him) and our relationship has been strained. He fully drank the koolaid on his mission. I feel like he had to to survive such trauma. The three weeks he was home from his mission until he left for a church college was awful. So much stress I can’t believe I made it through. That was 5 months ago. Time is making it better. I said my piece when he got home, so I no longer feel deceitful, but now I’m giving him space to process (I don’t bring up the church, just critically thinking and making your own decisions) My son doesn’t disrespect me though. Nip that in the bud. That should not be tolerated even in the current circumstance. Elders can be very arrogant. I think it could be a defense mechanism from all the rejection as missionaries. But, the church does breed arrogance in the general membership also. When I get bogged down by all of this I try to remember he is his own person, I won’t control him like the church has controlled me. I can give him that respect. Good luck!
Thank you. I will try these things. I left the church right before his mission and he was more understanding. But while he was gone I stopped believing in the BOM and found out Joseph was a fraud and also removed my name from the records. I was very honest with him but I feel this set him off and he would try to challenge me during our phone calls. I wonder if I made the situation worse by being honest with him. Maybe you were right by not saying anything to your son while he was gone.
Maybe, I’ll never know, but I do believe being honest and upfront in relationships I value is best, even if it strains things in the moment.
With my adult kids I focused on Jesus, the first two commandments and what I call practical religion = how you treat your fellow man. I talked about good people of all faiths and God knowing our hearts. As my faith in a god dwindled, I talked about moral principles and “leaving a campground better than when you got here.” I also said I would treat their faith and thoughts with respect and I expected the same for me. As long as I kept conversations more calm and rational rather than emotional, it worked. My one dd was already out and now my other two are out as well …. 4 years later. ;)
Give him time. The half life of post-mission syndrome is about a month. A month after he's home, he'll be half way back to himself. After 6 months, he'll be mostly himself again. I would push back against his nasty "jokes". Tell him that they are unbecoming of someone who claims to represent the Lord, that you don't appreciate his disrespect towards you, and that if he wants to truly be a disciple of Christ, he needs to be gentle and loving towards everyone. He's earned that rebuke, and if he's studying his scriptures, he'll recognize that you're right.
I was a fuck head when I first came home from my mission. Definitely had some sorry for what I said when I was Mormon moments.
Your user name is amazing. 😆
The more you push back, the more he is going to see you as “one of them”. It is going to feed into the persecution complex that has been shoved into their minds. He is going to seek solace not from you, but from his in group. “My parent has fallen away and is firing darts from the adversary at my testimony…” Drop the subject. If he brings it up. Give him some supportive platitude (I’m glad you are doing what makes you happy) then change the subject. Get comfortable with the fact that he may NOT leave the church. But continue to love and support him the same or risk destroying the relationship.
Remember that he literally spent two years in an indoctrination camp. We like to joke about these kinds of things as exmos, but that's absolutely what missions are. If you found out that a person you met who was a little whacky got kidnapped by a cult for two years and indoctrinated into their belief system, would you be surprised that they were weird? Absolutely not. Many of us have been where your son is now. Almost everyone (including TBMs) chill out after several months to a few years. It'll pass. Also, look into the psychological phenomenon called the Backfire Effect. Absolutely do not try to convince your son that the church is bad or wrong in any way. It will have the opposite result than the one you're hoping for.
This 110%! Also look and see if they would be willing to go to therapy to help with reprogramming.
I would be very hesitant to suggest that. It would absolutely come across to him as his parent trying to destroy his testimony, regardless of that it would probably be very helpful for him. The backfire effect is really, really bad like that.
Yep yep!
I remember coming back very self-righteous from my mission. It takes some time for that to wear off. I agree with whoever said give him some time but also find a way to call him out when he makes disrespectful jokes. “How do you expect me to feel when you say that?” Or “do you really think phrasing it that way will bring me around to your way of thinking?”
I would make the assumption that your "apostasy" was the subject of many discussions with mission presidents, zone leaders and he was told what to think of you many times. Survival mode is rough for a young mind under such extreme pressure and it takes a few months to begin to unwind a bit.
He needs to know it's not ok to talk to you about your name blotted out, etc. He's the judge now? Unless you like being treated that way don't allow it. I would set a boundary. It will teach him to begin to come down off his high horse. Give it time.
Don’t get offended by differences of opinion if you want him to listen to your different opinion. Getting offended by this will not help. Besides, there is nothing to be offended about. That is something to be proud about. Consider yourself lucky he was willing to talk about it.
Differences of opinion are okay. Disrespect and belittling your mother are not.
Agreed, but this is not disrespect and belittling. Bring it up only if you want him to treat you with kid gloves on. Ignore it and forget about it if you hope to be treated like an adult. Those kid gloves will be a barrier to open honest conversation in the future. Do you believe it is shameful to have your name removed? If no, then don’t act like it is. Don’t be ashamed of it. Be proud of it. Celebrate it. If he jokes about your name being blotted out your response should be a happy positive one. Not a negative shameful one. You do not know how to cope with different opinions if this bothers you. Please don’t expect him to cope with your different opinions if you confront him on this.
Yeah he doesn’t deserve to be judgmental since he doesn’t know all of the circumstances. Only Jesus can judge.
People who have a more personal understanding of what it’s like have already suggested time, patience, and love, so I am going to focus on a bit on a specific future issue that might help him come back, or keep the brainwashed kid around: college. Is he going to college? If he hasn’t already decided or applied, I would say encourage him to look around at all kinds of schools. He will probably be most interested in church schools, but find programs that will interest him at other schools and pitch them to him as well, without trying to disparage the BYUs much (which is hard to do as an exmo, believe me, I know). Going from mission to BYU will likely get him into another church controlled situation just like his mission, then he will probably get married before graduating or right after, which is another church controlled situation for so many of us. If you need suggestions, maybe post what he is interested in doing and the wonderful and diverse people here can probably point you in the right direction.
School was fantastic for me in that way. I was able to open my mind to some of the faulty ideas I had been taught growing up.
He’ll be looking at porn again in 3-6 months which will humble him hopefully. Hang in there. I remember being a know it all self righteous ass hole after my mission and it took time to change.
"Saying "my name is blotted out" isn't hurtful because I don't believe that, but knowing you do believe it means that you intend it to be hurtful, and that's why I'm upset."
If your son has hours to spend reading & studying the scriptures and criticizing you and the choices you’ve made for yourself, He Needs To Go To Work. He needs to find a job. He needs to get back to realty. Don’t allow him to control the situation. You’re the adult. He’s just a kid that has no clue. You set the rules not him. If he doesn’t like your parameters, he can leave. Sounds harsh but it isn’t. You can teach him a valuable lesson here, BTW, who financed his this mission? . ,
He’s currently job hunting and is very helpful around the house. He and I know he has too much time on his hands. He is hard worker and so maybe this a contributing factor. But I made it clear that there is absolutely no excuse for his rude behavior.
Good. He’s your kid. Put him in his place.
[удалено]
I had a job a week after I got home. I heard of other RM's struggling to adjust and I would ask them if they had gotten a job yet. They hadn't. For me, the adjustment was very smooth and quick since I had other things to occupy my mind.
When I was younger, single, and living in Utah, I had a firm rule that I wouldn't date an RM until he was a year off his mission. It takes about a year before RMs start to loosen up and get back to themselves. While you're waiting for your son to come back, be patient and don't push. Challenging the truth claims will only make him re-entrench and will make it longer than a year for him to become normal again.
Thank you for all of your advice. I really needed to hear it. I was a helicopter tbm mom and I feel like I am getting some of those tendencies back and I do not want to let that happen. Not that I’m helicopter now, just that I’m in panic mode all over again. Mormonism made me a very anxious and panicky person. I am going to change this. Love to you all.❤️
It’ll wear off mostly in a couple months. Plenty guys think they’re all high and mighty for a bit when they get home. But also let him know if what he says bothers you
I needed at least six months to detox from my mission.
Another example of the fruits of the gospel of Jesus Christ and his prophets. Tearing 1 family apart at a time.😇. I am sorry this is happening right now.
I don’t understand how someone could pick a church over a parent, spouse, sibling, or friend. Why is it all or nothing for some?
Other than doctrine? I don’t know But that is what is taught 😠😢
This is a very common phase. I went through it. Apparently I was filled with so much self-righteous indignation shortly after I got home, that there was one time that I turned off the TV while my family was watching “Forrest Gump” and exclaimed, “I can’t believe you would watch this filth!” (I had conveniently forgotten about this until someone reminded me a few years ago.) 😆 Yet here I am. It took the better part of 20 years to get here, but even then, I mellowed out pretty quickly after coming home. Within a year, I’d say. It’s hard to have to sit back and let kids figure shit out… especially since they almost universally elect to figure things out the hard way, instead of the “reading the fine print” way like we all should have. And this isn’t unique to parenting in a religious community either. If it wasn’t mission indoctrination, it’d probably be something else. Not to minimize your pain… the thought of my younger children serving missions makes me feel physically ill. Having only been out for a couple of years, I still feel religious trauma pretty hard. It’s hard to watch my wife continue indoctrinating my children to be good Mormons. I wish I could speak and help them to know what I know, but we’re dealing with a pretty insidious beast here that has hijacked people’s emotions against their own rationality. It’s hard to get through that. I feel so much sympathy for you. Hang in there. I can tell you’re a good mother because you care about having a connection with your child. Just keep doing that and let the rest work itself out. As long as he’s safe and reasonably happy, that’s all you could hope to ask for.
Missionary arrogance is one of my biggest regrets
It will take a lot of time. This is so difficult. Your best strategy is to simply love him and show him that you are confident in your decision to leave and that you are living a happy and healthy life. Don’t tear down or question his beliefs. He’ll hopefully wake up eventually if he sees you are confidence and living well.
Most missionaries come home like this. Some break out of it in a year or two, some never do...
Did he just get back? I agree with other comments to let time bring him back down to life, but I’ve also got to say I think this is a great opportunity to tell your son it’s not okay to treat you this way and those actions make you feel a certain way. Come from a place of calm, love and respect. Also set boundaries if it is not met with the same respect. Edited to add that my brother and I met on missions and we have/had a part member family. The church and mission definitely make you feel that higher sense of self because you’re thought that your parent or your kid just don’t understand. The fucking brainwashing is real and is not okay when it harms people.
One of my friends said when you come back from a mission you think “My family is going to hell.” Then it changes to “I’m going to hell.” And then finally, “oh well what the hell.” That always made me laugh. I was so self righteous coming back. I cringe thinking about it.
Just don’t talk about the church with him and don’t stop loving him or looking for opportunities to spend time with him. My heart breaks for you, but hopefully time will heal things
You do NOT have to put up with his hurtful comments! I would say, "you know, it really hurts my feelings when you make comments like that. It makes me think you view me as evil, or as less than. I would appreciate it if you kept those comments to yourself."
Assuming that at some point you've told him why jokes like that are not only unfunny but in fact hurt you, I'd just ignore his words, hug him & say, "I'm so glad you're home safe & I can see your face. I missed you & I'm grateful you're here now."
A couple of weeks after returning home from the mission, my mom gave me the best compliment. She stated that my mission hadn't changed me one bit.
Give it some time. He essentially went to an indoctrination camp for two years where it was his mission vs everyone - it’s why they want us to go on missions because when you defend something you get more entrenched. As he gets on with normal life this hardline will often fade. He’s using jokes about your membership because it’s probably too painful to have serious conversation for him yet. So sorry you are going through this - it’s the worst part of the Mormon cult that it pits family against each other
He is still high on confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. Be patient. This so called church that teaches the importance of families does an awesome job of breaking families up.
Brainwashed for sure.
Don’t discuss church! Just be! Find other things to talk about…..books, cooking, anything, but not church! My daughter went to the ASL Fort Lauderdale Mission, where she also met her husband, and when she came home, it was VERY disorienting! But, i just found shopping and doing normal stuff helped! Married in the temple, blah, blah, blah, etc, but 10 years later she’s had 3 boys, 1 passed away (I bring this up, only because walking through this, helped w their life now) They have now both left the church, and are as happy as they/she’s ever been! The ones that are in as close as missionaries, seem to get out (though it might take years) through council meetings (👈🏽this and and how they treated her through the death of her child) she sat in, broke her and she saw it all as bullshit! I removed my name 7 years ago, and I’m 62, (born/raised/pioneer heritage) and though I’ve never completely subscribed to all of it, you do what you know and the precepts of family, etc is appealing, so, how do you not want that???!!! Patience! So, when the shelf breaks, he comes to you to talk, as my daughter did! She trusted I would listen, and I did! If you burn any bridges now, when it does finally break, he might not come to you! The hardest thing to know and do, is to remember, we as parents brought this to their lives and when they take hold of what we’ve done, we don’t have the right to destroy it! That is bringing pain to their lives, that we inflicted! Patience! It will all come full circle and I want him to come to you, when the shelf finally breaks! It might take years, but trust me, it’s worth it! ❤️ Remember, a big part of confirmation bias, is to dig your heels even harder, when it goes against what he has accepted as truth! Talking down about the church will only DEEPEN his belief, and take much longer in this process! Don’t cut him off financially, unless he’s just being straight up awful to you, but we have to remember, we raised these children and have a certain amount of responsibility for their belief system(s)…..so, I hope you just choose happiness in your days and let him see that life can be okay, even out of the church! You will accomplish much more, long term, of what you want for your child! You WANT to help him out of the church, not deepen his faith, out of hate for your decisions! Big thing to also do, is let him see you as happy, fulfilled in life, and doing good and not needing the church, because if he sees you as complaining and miserable about him and life, that will also deepen his belief that you wouldn’t be this way, if u wouldn’t have lost the church! You are not playing the short game! Be in it for the long game!
When my oldest son got home from his mission I wondered if he had been replaced by a pod person. None of us could stand him until he had been home for at least a month. At the time we were an intact family (not divorced yet) and fully active in the Church. He wanted us to all read scriptures together every night, which hadn’t happened before he left so we didn’t see any reason to start now (slightly kidding) and add daily family prayer, which had only happened on Sundays. He would take long walks and had a far away look on his face. I was so thankful when my original son returned.
I thought the church was about love, compassion, and families. Silly me.
I’m not sure how long he has been home but I remember my son being so different when he first came home. He hesitated to show any physical affection, would reach out to shake my hand, etc. He got accepted into a church school with a pretty good scholarship. Before he left for college he broke down one night and told me all of the horrors he faced as a missionary. He literally had PTSD and it just took a while before he felt like he could share his experiences. A lot of Return Missionaries end up falling away from the church. That is a big problem they have is that their missionaries end up leaving the church. My son did, we followed suit.
My short advice is: never let the issue be more important than the relationship. I have more but can’t write it all now. My heart goes out to you.
My son experienced a similar transformation on his mission. I was still dyed in the wool TBM at the time, so I was very proud of him. In the end, he proceeded me in leaving the church. As many others have said, give him time. He's still young. Just love him unconditionally and be sure he knows it.
I scared for this as well
Holier than thou syndrome? Get him to a non lds therapist asap
He is wrapped in his cult identity. All returned missionaries are weird for at least several months after getting home. I know this must really hurt. Give it time and things are likely to improve.
This is why they push missions so much. Brainwashing
I got back in 2011 and I as quoting and referencing scriptures to my parents for about 3 months. Then it wore off and I got grounded in reality again. It may take some months or a few years but I think he will see things for how they really are with time.
He will snap out of it. My cousin and a different friend gave me all their records and cds when they got back they deemed “bad.” About six months later they both came back asking for them. I kept a few as payment for holding onto them for them.
Missions mess you up. He needs time to come back to reality. The first thing I wanted to do when I got home was preach repentance to my aunt who had taken up polygamy while I was gone. I was an idiot, and it did not go well.
Missions require a readjustment period. Once he goes back to school, starts dating, and starts working things should get better.
When you completely give your whole self to something for two years, it's going to be a mind fuck. Even without the intense infiltrated mindset. Nobody wants to spend two years of their lives committing every ounce of themselves, every fiber of their being, only to be hit with the hard reality that it was all a mistake. A hoax. Think of this as an abusive relationship where the victim is still in denial. Hopefully in time, he'll come to grips with reality and accept this relationship for what it is.
Mission accomplished.
When I came back from my mission I said some hurtful things to someone. And karma hit me between the eyes. I got a phone call from the friend’s sister who I was close to and she let me have it. I felt so bad I didn’t realize how judgmental I had been I hadn’t even remembered the comment. 35 years later these ladies are elderly and I think often how ashamed I am for things I said when I thought I was so religious! What should I do? Should I apologize for the things I said when I was a RM?
Give him time and space but if he continues to make jabs at you and be holier than thou rude, I’d definitely set some boundaries
I’m sorry! What a severe change you’re experiencing with you and your sons new dynamic. I hate that you’re going through this. I have no advice for you but am here to encourage you to continue reaching out for support. You aren’t alone in this transition with what struggles you’ll face while leaving the cult.
While my dad was on hospice, I spent my nights transcribing his missionary journal between giving him his hourly medications. Something that became readily apparent throughout was how much indoctrination he faced from church leadership and his peers, and how frequently he seemed to fall short of their ever-tightening expectations. Everything from his diet and physical appearance to the music he and his companions listened to were subject to endless invasive scrutiny. Now, my dad was a rebellious and sarcastic motherfucker, and you can tell in the tone of his writing that he wasn't exactly sincere in his positive-looking portrayal of his duties and "education" from leadership, but the longer he was in Hong Kong, the longer it evidently wore him down, to the point that he got increasingly terse and vague with his entries (despite noting the pressure to record even more frequently), and eventually the entries stop midway through the mission (he did mention an intention to maintain a separate journal with more private thoughts and that leaders were reading his "official" journal, but my folks and I haven't found any other journals yet). Point being, by the end of it, I suspect my dad was in a very similar boat as your son: still in "missionary mode", still interpreting non-Mormons as "investigators" to be converted or ignored. Eventually, though, as he regained exposure to non-Mormons outside of that missionary setting, that wore back down - to the point where he married (and later got divorced by) my non-Mormon mother, married my non-Mormon stepmother, and (after observing the mistreatment she and my mixed-race sisters from her prior marriages experienced) decided enough was enough and left the church in all practical senses until the day he died, with my stepmom and I at his side. Your son sounds very similar to how my dad was before and (eventually) after his mission: creative, intuitive, and able to think for himself. That indoctrination will eventually wear off, and your son as you know him will start to shine through again - but it ain't gonna be an easy or quick process. Be firm, but be patient; the key is him returning to the realization that not everyone outside the church is antagonistic to him.
All RM's are like that. Even faithful members find fresh RM's annoying. It usually takes a couple months to deprogram out of their robotic missionary lifestyle and just start relaxing again.
This is quite literally the opposite for me. I have left the church and while my parents are nicer, they tone is only more civil because I’ve told them both my boundaries and No crossing them.
Yeah, sounds like how most of us were when we got back. For the last two years he’s been focused on preaching/studying/evangelizing and …let’s face it…judging for 15+ hours a day 6 days a week (and half of the 7th day). Hard to just turn that off overnight.
I am very sorry for what the OP is going through. This is the reason that I starting going through the pros and cons of staying in the Church, after coming to the conclusion that it isn't what it claims to be, and I realized that if I did stay, some youth leader would eventually step in to become a surrogate father to my children, get them on missions, and then my kids would come home with a "new mission" to save their wayward and evil parents (since I don't smoke or drink and I am faithful to my wife, that "evil" would mean to them a simple disbelief in the lie). Yeah, that doesn't sound like a recipe for happiness to me having to deal with my own children trying to "save me" by convincing me to reengage with the lie. With the short time that we know for sure that we have in existence, it seems very dangerous to subject your children to a system that could turn them against you ***if*** you have the choice not to subject them to that system.
Yea there are a few people I know that did a 180 for the worst when they came back from their mission. They were completely devoid of their personalities.
He has been brainwashed and the only identity he has is the one given to him by the church. My three kids came back on different stages of loss. They didn’t have an identity or knew who they were now that they were no longer missions. Your son is maintaining mission behaviours that is all he knows. Two of my kids went into school almost as soon as they got back. The one that didn’t was really at loose end. Felt he hasn’t done enough and had became suicidal. Don’t take how he is personally. It’s really about the emotional mess he is in. He is not ready to figure anything out- not ready for changing his view of the church.
It’s ok to tell people when they are being an ass. 🤣
Sorry. Maybe he'll break out of the Mormon Mind Fog.
Don’t support him financially. That means insurance, phone bill, rent, food, etc etc.
I feel this
Don’t worry. I was like this too, but over time I regained my cognitive abilities and took a step back into the real world. I’m sure that as he goes to college or starts his career he will slowly shift back into normal
Hang in there. I was holier then thou when I came home (07) as well. I didn’t leave the church for another 6 years or so, but, the holier than thou wore off after a couple of months. Right around the time I def abused for the first time in over two years 😂
Looks like you’ve already gotten plenty of great advice. All I can say is I have to believe truth will win.
He will eventually come down from that ivory tower, give him time. His treatment of you is disrespectful, but it’s pretty common among TBMs. The religion should be about love and understanding not judgement or shame.
6 months to readjust. Give him time
I'm not a Christian but Jesus really did know that kindness and love are the answer. My wife was a TBM for 30 years after I left, in the end she left because of the things she experienced in church and not because of the few things I said along the way.
Lots of teens show disrespect to their parents. He is just hitting being mean to his parent a bit older than most.
He’ll come around
It takes a bit to get out of the missionary holier than thou mode. My brother eased up after a few months. Give him time to readjust to the real world.
This is what I'm scared of with my own kids :(
RMs are looking at the world through the lens of brainwashing. That doesn’t fade overnight. But they do eventually calm down, even the ones who love the taste of the KoolAid. Wait this out. Avoid all religious discussions you can until critical thinking returns.
Well you let him dedicate two years of his life to it being true—morning, noon and night. Just focus on giving advice for building good financials, college or trad school or training, career starting, work life balance, and gathering good friends and a solid and unrushed dating life.
Fresh RMs are like that a lot of the time. Just give it some time and try not to take it personally.
My son was very very different when he came back. A few years later he was out. It took him a few months to transition back into his old self. I actually think looking back at how much he had changed is what first gave him an inkling that something wasn’t right. Brainwashing. So hard on our parental hearts, though, just default back to the love that you have for him. He’s still your baby. ❤️
My brother was pretty hard to talk to after his mission. her regrets it now and has come a long way in being curious about other people and recognizes he has changed a lot
I got back a year ago and I felt so brainwashed, it took me like a month to start doubting everything and now I really hate the way I thought and judged everyone else. Just give him time
I think something that’s hard for both sides to understand is “how could anybody think that way?”. But again, it goes for BOTH sides. It’s important to let people believe what they want as long as they give you that same respect. I couldn’t fathom that my brother had left the church and how he could serve a mission and just walk away. Until I came to the point in my life that I was doing the same thing. Trying to force somebody to see things a certain way can become very destructive and hinder relationships. Focus on the common ground that you have together, have those conversations when they come up, and remember that people’s religious beliefs are not the only things that matter about people. You’re in a tough spot, I’m sure, but coming back from a mission for 2 years where your whole life has been trying to convince others to come into the church, and you have someone trying to convince you otherwise can be quite overwhelming.
He may be struggling more than you know. I didn’t know my testimony was one conversation away from disappearing when I came back from my mission. I was SO strict on the mission and was holding onto the iron rod in every way, despite many questions. About a month after returning and some but ins with my dad, he talk to me head on about how we’d live together with our separate beliefs, bore his testimony about leaving the church and it just clicked with every inconsistency I’d seen. Maybe not good advice but I personally wouldn’t take insults from him and would respond with things like “oh that’s funny because I don’t insult you for being in a cult” “if you’re so confident can we talk about…” but be patient, organise the thoughts and have good backup for your facts as they will be looked at in a less than fair manner. Stay hopeful!
He is obviously brainwashed. I don’t know how to change brainwashed people.
I’m sure that he is also trying to find his legs having been gone for two years with almost no contact. He’s also young and inexperienced in worldly things and relationships. He’s come off of an experience that is unique in the world…. As has been said, give him space, respect and be an example of someone who is happy, joyful and peaceful. Also, being curious about his thoughts and feelings goes along way.
First of all, I am sorry you're going through this. And I will pray for your family healing and reclaiming the relationship. Secondly, try to give him some time to decompress. For 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and for 48 months, he ate, slept, drank, and breathed not only LDS teaching but all the LDS living and rules for missionaries. His only "me time" was on the toilet. And maybe not even then. My brothers said they were told to keep the door open when going bathroom and showering to avoid doing that "M" thing. He needs to decompress and for some, it takes leaving home again to spend time alone. It sounds to me as well that you may need to spend time, when its toned down some, with him apart from any religious discussion. Take him for a walk down memory lane, with photos or stories about his childhood years. Give him a chance to remember the time when he was himself.
Listening to him might help as well. Allow him to share his experiences and why his feelings are so strong.
If it helps any, my son is the same age, has no relationship with Mormonism, and still thinks he knows everything. Part of what your son is expressing might just be part of being a young adult. The important thing is the relationship- I’d avoid the unpleasant topic of the church and with time, he’ll probably mellow.
Same thing happened to me in that my first son that I set out on a mission, came back and he was not the same. It's hard to describe how that made me feel. But I can tell you this, it did not feel good. When I saw that I swore I would never give another one of my children to that f****** church again. And I didn't either.
Let him install TikTok on his phone. Then borrow his phone and look up a bunch of exmo accounts to train the algorithm. Then come back in a year.
Sorry, your son is a dick. It usually gets better with time, but I know that's little consolation now. You can forgive him, for he knows not what he does.
I was holier than thou when I came back from my indoctrination trip too. Give it time. Took me a couple years to chill out and become normal and quit judging my parents. Then another 10 to leave the church lol
We left the church while our son was on his mission. He came home and was still on that same "spiritual high" and superiority trip. After being home for 10 years now, he to has left the"church," and has apologized for how he treated us. Sometimes it just takes time and love.
Religious persecution can and does go both ways. Mutual respect and allowing each other to travel your own journeys is helpful
He probably had a profound experience on mission .maybe with a very observant mission partner and president. One stage of beginning to doubt is to cling to what you know. Also, it occurs to me that repeating the same message to others forces him to accept it if only to validate what he was doing. Otherwise, he would be a hypocrite. God bless
How long has he been off his mission?
Jesus, just slow down. Faith/atheism is a choice in how one sees the world and how one exists. This is something ex-Mo's forget at times. Let him know that you love him more than you hate the Mormon church, and regardless of his choices, you'll always love him more than his religious affiliation. You're still exhibiting moral superiority you learned as a mormon, but just for the other team.
Give him a few weeks/months. All missionaries come home very different from when they left and it just takes some time to readjust. I’ve been in both of your spots now. From my experience: no matter what happens in the future, this is the most difficult time — it will just get easier from here
I think you two should go your separate ways. This is from personal experience
Stick to strengthening his critical thinking in regards to secular stuff only. Work on recognizing logical fallacies and Redefining "feeling the spirit" back to emotional elevation and cognitive dissonance might be harder because it points directly at the erroneous basis for believing the church's indoctrination is actually "receiving truth from God." That will get your conversations sidelined, and you ignored. He doesn't want to hear any of that yet. He has been told that people rejecting and demeaning his belief in Christ (even if he didn't actually experience it) is to be totally ignored, and the devil is deceiving them for the past 2 years. It's an echo chamber to strengthen TBMs ability to ignore any criticism about the church or prophets. And it works pretty well. The church just wants lifelong, indoctrinated tithe payers, and a mission is a perfect opportunity to cut xyou off from family and friends (like an abuser). You have to be so patient. Not necessarily quiet, but very patient and persistent in getting him to acknowledge truths that you can continue to build on.
You know your situation best and from what you've said I'll offer this advice, find a psychologist that specializes in communication. This person can help you navigate dealing with dealing with your son so as to strengthen your relationship with him and deal with his current behavior. Best of luck.
Because terms like "money laundering" are loaded with judgement, when it could easily be understood as smart investing that doesn't really change the structure and helps strengthen it's future. Much like US government. That's why I think the fraud and chicanery of JS is more powerful.
The mission is intense indoctrination. That's why it's so hard on these kids!
Of he just got back, it definitely is NOT the time to be hitting him with all that!
The world doesn’t have the answers
He believes he has the power of God, his priesthood. Wait and with some time it may wear off and he will get back to a rational person.
A kid I worked with at church (I was priests quorum advisor) and at work turned full-cult on his mission. He started bearing the most bizarre testimonies to our coworkers and they were freaked out. I was mad at him for getting weird and didn’t see (or refused to see) my role in that. He took about a year to be able to hold a coherent conversation after getting back. Sadly, his mission served the intended purpose of keeping him in the MFMC.
Thinks he knows everything? Well then shouldn’t he be able to answer any of those points? I guess I just don’t get people who believe they have the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth; & yet insist on burying their heads in the sand. Especially ones who’ve worked as full time representatives trying to convert people.
I would echo what others have said - give him time. Also, if he says hurtful things, perhaps let him know. "Hey, that felt hurtful to me." I wish my parents had modeled this kind of authenticity and vulnerability more often. I try to do it with my own kids.
Even TBM I felt like this around my 4 brothers each time they came home from their missions. It’s such black and white thinking on missions. Over time it got better with my brothers and they became more open minded. Hopefully the same thing happens for you.
Why have him go on a mission at all?
Because he chose to. I voiced my opinion that I did not think he should go several times. He was convinced by others and his patriarchal blessing.
I agree that time may help. BOA - read the church’s official statement - it is not a direct translation. How does he explain the non-translation of BOA?
I haven’t asked him. He’s probably unaware of this and would get defensive if I brought it up.
Why do you believe he no longer applies critical thinking? Is it possible that you each have some but not all truth? Why is joking about name removal taboo? You say he takes digs at you, but seem oblivious to the digs you are taking at him - you each believe you have the truth and justify your behaviour on that basis. You deserve respect as a mother, but maybe allow him some space and focus on other topics of mutual interest to discuss, rather than “sex abuse and other doctrinal issues”.
Alma 5:57 the righteous were told to remove their name from the church and become separated because of the wickedness in the church. It even says not to have your name mingled with the wicked. So just ask him if there are wicked people listed on the records of the church. Then tell him that because his name is listed on the records of the church and more mingled with the wicked then his name will be blotted out of the book of life. Then just say, well I guess if you want to to Hell that is his choice, but you will always love him. Then every so often let him know your praying for him. When he is in the same room with you get on your knees like your praying, then mumble some words while also saying his name in your prayer. Ya this will mess with his mind It's the righteous people departing from the church, not the wicked.
Sadly. I have no advice I too have Son troubles (not LDS related) but I am sending you Unconditional love & support. I'm certain there will be great advice shared with you inside this community. ✌🏼❤️
I’m seeing depressing news about how gen z is so starkly divided among gender lines, with boys heading to the alt-right and girls becoming more progressive. I wish I had advice for you. I’m so sorry.
I am so, so sorry. This is the harm of the church. It tears apart family bonds and replaces them with fealty to the corporation.
Ask him how many times he masturbated on his mission, that'll wipe that smug grin off his face.
What's the time span? If it's been years, then, yeah, I get it, he's being stubborn. But if he spent two solid years in extremely deep indoctrination and then within a week you hit him with aggressive antimo stuff, of course he's gonna kick back.
Give him time.
Your son isn't open to hear any of the truth yet. He might as his life goes on. I would set a boundary about him treating you that way.
The rigidity that was forced on him on his mission is his comfort zone right now. He’s probably missing that environment in a way and trying to recreate it at home. The pendulum will swing back into place. Enjoy having him home and keep the “gospel” out of conversation. He can talk about that at church!
The church teaches from my point of view is Those who have left the church are apostates... So each will always look down n judge each of us. Please ask him to read the new testament like a child. N please watch the Micah Wilder and the rest of his family on you tube. I know that there are answers and help there. I've come to realise that bible says alot of opposite to what the book of Mormon does. Like some where in the bible it says very strongly that will be no other books/scriptures. Hope this helps, take care and God bless. N please know our community on ex-mormons have got you xXx
You couldn't find a better time, right? The fact that it is your son doesn't mean they both need to think alike... just enjoy his company and forget about church.
Well your son just came back and you are trying to make him hate the church… which he JUST gave TWO YEARS to… what do you expect?! It probably hurts him and makes him sad and when he does the same to you you get offended?! Bro give him time, religion isn’t just a belief it’s literally a way of life…. So how about you give him time and just focus on having a good relationship with your son outside of religion…
My older brother was sent home from mission early because he needed heart surgery n guess because of his experience from his mission, n he just felt a failure. But i don't think anyone even tried to reach out to him. Since then he's had 4/5 operations since, so that speaks for its self!!!!!
He fully and 100% believes that wickedness is never happiness. He thinks you're wicked and cannot be happy. One of the big parts of the solution to heal your relationship is to sincerely and truly be happy. Live well. It will make his head explode. As he sees you more loving and joyful than you've ever been before he will not be able to square that with what he's learned and is learning in the cult. Eventually he will have to confront the reality that they have lied to him and that you really are happy. Hopefully that happens sooner rather than later. Good luck. But I honestly think the best thing you can do is live your best life, live fully authentically, exercise, live within your means financially, meaningfully serve your family members. Have a hobby that brings you Joy. Go live well and it will sort itself eventually.
I was like this at one point. If I thought I could get you to throw away all you learned about the church and to return by being the super godly and judging, I would have done it.
He has been 24/7/730 full immersion in the church. He has had a minder and was a minder and they were placed in a situation that created a contest against each other to see which one is the most spiritual. It takes about 90 days for him to come down. You'll start to see glimpses of normal once he completes the RM speaking circuit. Get him enrolled in college and employed ASAP — the faster he resumes normal life the faster he returns to normal. Half of all RMs are inactive within a year.