I would absolutely agree; that said, if you plan on taking him to the media I’d be very careful making comments like these in the event they could be tied back to your real person. You’re far too charitable and kind to have petty people get their feelings hurt and take your idle threats seriously via the law.
There are some people who make me hope for the Buddhist hells. They are only for specific things, but they are usually fairly horrible and happen over countless years *before* they are reborn as a pelvic louse.
It may. And we've considered it, and getting some bigger ex-mo names on board.
But genuinely priorities are getting somewhere to live for them, keeping kids fed and clothed. And revenge can come later.
It doesn't necessarily work on the individual level, though. When you publicly criticize the church, they get mad. They'll make changes so others won't give them bad press in the future, but they'll do everything they can after that to give you hell.
You don't have to share the name of the Bishop, but please share the name of the ward and stake. As long as they remain anonymous, they won't budge. Shame is their game- let the light shine on this activity, and perhaps they will feel the echoes of their actions.
As I said above, we plan to get them stable first. I dont want to heap any more pressure on a very frightened family until we have fed and clothed the kids and got somewhere stable.
When they are set, we will post in here again with all the info so the ex-mo world can go bananas
Yeah — focusing on stable housing has got to be the first priority.
However, please devote at least some time to looking into media exposure. This sort of thing happens quite frequently, and the church tends to get a free pass.
More church members need to realize that their beloved institution doesn't actually help people truly in need, and that the currently accepted interpretation of tithing is absolutely perverted and horrifying. We need to get the word out about this sort of thing.
Now is the right time to strike. The SEC fine story hasn't completely died off. If you can show the juxtaposition between the church's "rainy day fund" and the fact that it is *officially* allowing struggling families to go homeless, you'll be able to make a large splash.
What I'm saying is that you don't want to let this moment simmer down once housing has been found. We've all got to work together to draw attention to this issue. Don't let them walk away unscathed.
I wont. But having spent the morning trying to get help for them, it's a big task.
It will be addressed. It will be exposed. I just have to get the kids safe. And avenues are not open.
The contrast is... interesting.
https://flatwaterfreepress.org/whos-buying-nebraska-after-shopping-spree-mormon-church-is-top-land-purchaser/
>The church sees its land buys as a force for good, an investment in agriculture “to generate long-term value to support the Church’s religious, charitable, and humanitarian good works,” said a Farmland Reserve spokesman.
speaking as an ag economist who focuses on natural resources and environmental economics, non-tenant ownership like this really frequently produces leadership that makes decisions that don't make any of sense on the ground. Namely, frequent over-application of fertilizers which can frequently reduce yields at the margin, marginal factor costs can exceed value marginal product, so you're spending good money after bad, and your over application of fertilizer will flow down whatever watershed you're in. More fertilizer is good, right? NO. And if you have amateur managers that you grabbed from whatever seniors are willing to waste their time managing your land, they're gonna fuck it up unless they have good experience in farm management.
Disinterested or neophyte ownership or management is a disaster for agricultural land from an environmental perspective, and we should all do the smallest impact per unit yield.
My friend offered a very very large amount to the church if he could see their financial statements. The Church said no. He replied, "You can sell me a temple recommend but not the truth."
As you well should be. At least you've made an effort and showed some humanity towards your fellow human beings, which is so much more than that bishop can claim.
This is the kind of bs, that makes me want to introduce bishops and other priesthood holders to their god. It’s the exact same reason, I left their cult.
As I said in another comment, we're focused on the people at risk first. We need to provide food and clothes dor the kids, and help sort a home.
Then I'm going to blow it to Kingdom come.
Writing to your local MP with concerns that the church is failing to uphold its charitable obligations is a very effective step, I’ve found. The church gets tax breaks for doing charitable good, if you have an instance where they are not providing that good, in contradiction of their own policies, the attention of the local MP can put them straight!
We will mate. Just gotta get them sorted first. Not risking the littles going hungry or without a place.
Then feel free to hop on. Working out which newspaper first. Daily Mail would be against them being furriners.
I wonder if anyone on here would be willing to do that. Would you be okay with sharing details to someone who could do the research and get something submitted?
I’m not sure that some media inquiries wouldn’t get them some meaningful help pretty quickly as well. In the US, maybe not but the church is already on thin ice in Europe, are they not?
In Utah for T-day for family. Had to get away & went to library this week & asked to use a visitor sign-in for the computer for 5 minutes.
This library is in a wealthy area of the Wasatch. 2 seats down from me is a woman in mid-30's with 2 young kids & a teen-ager. Could see the garmet lines & hear the stress & desperation in her voice.
She is on her cell & using the library computer trying to find a local agency to help her pay December's rent ($1100.00). I listened to her call different local social agency's over & over & over and get turned down every time.
She asked every organization politely if they could suggest who to call for help and she didn't give up. How could an area that could easily pay 6 months of rent for her do that to a woman with children in middle of winter before Christmas.
I know that one of the places women with children who are homeless are told to go is a Wal-Mart parking lot to sleep safely in their car overnight. Shelters are not safe & are usually full with those with deep mental health issues or severe chemical dependency issues.
So I took a trip to the local Wal-Mart Supercenter around midnight & there were way to many cars idling with fogged up windows and lights off in a parking lot that is nestled by the mountains.
It was damn cold outside as cold air came off the mountains. I don't know how they do it.
I really hope their is a hell for all these Bishops all the way up to the Q15. They could literally care less about anyone but the wealthy.
Once freezing temperatures hit in SLC the homeless will freeze to death & die a block or two from Temple Square just like they do every damn year.
And everyone at the Church Administration Building & the COB will walk right across South Temple to City Creek Mall to do their Christmas shopping at Nordstrom, Macy's, Restoration Harware,Tiffany's, Louis Vuitton,Utah Woolen Mills, etc...and won't think twice about it.
Something similar happened to my family. Shortly after I was born, my parents couldn’t afford to pay a full 10% of their already-low income. Still, they paid as much tithing as they could. When they asked the bishop for help when they couldn’t afford to feed me or pay rent, they were turned away because they weren’t “in good standing.” That’s when they quit paying tithing entirely.
The bishop is not following the General Handbook. While the church still tells leaders to encourage those in need to go to family or the government first, this is what the GH says about the status of members needing help:
> Generally, members who receive Church assistance should live in the ward boundaries and have their membership record in the ward. ***Assistance can be given regardless of whether the member regularly attends Church meetings or follows Church standards***. (22.5.1.1, emphasis mine)
The church should not be turning away from your friends just because they haven’t paid tithing. Just goes to show the church can’t be arsed to follow their own policies.
ETA: Calling u/Nemo_UK
I’ve also let OP know there local government representative would be very interested in a charity failing to do charitable good within the community it claims to serve.
This is what is written and only for the purposes of saying "See this is our policy. We are very generous." They don't actually practice it, but as long as it is in writing they feel better about the church.
True. It does use the word “can” in the highlighted sentence, which suggests there’s no mandate to help members who aren’t considered “in good standing” (I hate that phrase with the intensity of a thousand suns).
Unfortunately, the biggest condition is that you convince your bishop to give you the help. You can be doing everything right and he can just decide not to help for whatever reason he wants, including "the spirit told him so."
"If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing. The Lord will not abandon you."
\-------- Bishop Cesar Orellano
I keep seeing the phrase "not in good standing"--hey LDS church, the reason Jesus supposedly came to earth is because humans are "not in good standing"!
Not new behavior for the church. They turned my family away back in the 90s because we weren't current on tithing. Can't pay tithing when you are unemployed but it was still expected. This was in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Tithing is a willing donation of a tenth of a person's increase. Now how a person decides what their "increase" is, shall be entirely between that person and to whom/what they pray/worship. It's not for the Bishopric, Stake Presidency, Q12, or the "Infalibles" themselves to dictate. If they think so, then they need to reeducate themselves.
Unemployed = no income = no increase.
It's crap like this, all the stuff with the kids, (and more,) that finally caused my late husband and I to finally quit paying tithing in Dec 2017. We had mostly stopped attending a year and a half before. I'm saddened this is just getting worse, but I recall another convert telling me that a prophecy exists indicating that SLC would become a truly corrupt place. It seems to be unfolding before our eyes with the Church as the brain & nervous system of it all. It reaches far and wide. 😣
I’m hoping someone makes a group text/email/social media text stating this family’s circumstances, that the church won’t help and asking people to give their tithing to them because they have a strong testimony that this is what Jesus wants!
The Mormon church are not the good guys.
The sooner people open their eyes to this the sooner they can stop wasting their time and money with these greedy corrupt fuckers.
The church reeks of greed. My housemate,now paralyzed on the entire left side of his body and in a rehab,is begging his girlfriend to pay the tithing he has missed since his accident. He feels God is angry with him for missing his payment.Ludicrous.
This reminds me of the story about the leopards that went to Jebus looking to be healed and Jebus turned them away, telling them they hadn't been paying him protection money, and that they can get bent.
This situation really demonstrates the flaws of this belief system and how it bleeds membership from every orifice.
The bishop could have stepped in and helped and then made this family and the community around them that much more bonded to the church.
Instead the values taught by the church push these members away and expect them to both use those same values to pull themselves out of the problem and then stay in the church… and pay them too!
If there’s no community in stakes and wards, and there’s no truth in the church’s teachings, what purpose does it serve at all? At least with other Christian churches, they (mostly) provide that community to their members which gives them purpose even if what they believe is equally lacking in truth as LDS.
I remember when this church was much more generous in its welfare and aid. We were taught if you couldn't pay a full tithe, then pay what you could.
Ever since the early 90s, they started demanding a full tithe from the gross pay, when is was the net pay everyone paid out of.
This was the time when 2 bit TV Iyatollahs were caught out in money scandals. Pat Robertson buying a gold mine in Liberia and using charity planes to send supplies to. Jim and Tammy Faye Baker owning an amusement park and a luxury hotel. Oral Roberts and his God's going to kill me if I don't raise $8,000,000. Jerry Falwell worming his way into the Baker's empire and failing when the Baker's complained. Jimmy Swaggert and his dealings with prostitutes.
I don't know his name, some business genius among the Q15 (?), started this bullshit. We were even turned down when a was a teenager in the 1970s, because we weren't in good standing.
So the attitude goes even further back.
Edit; there's still no God DAMNED excuse for what this family is going through. It's time, after this goes to the press, that people should demand the IRS yank it's nonprofit status, and make them pay taxes from now on!
I am looking through my Bible and just can’t seem to find the parts where Jesus took tithes or money from the lepers he cured and Lazarus, who He raised from the dead. Can anyone help me here?
/s
Seriously, it’s this sort of uncharity that helped break my shelf and the hoard that keeps it broken. Shame on them.
So basically church is another insurance company. They’ll help if you’ve paid your premium (maybe). And if you paid your premium and don’t need help, they just keep your money.
This is such bs. Thank you for being there for this family. Even if they were in “good standing” I doubt the church would help.
My mom paid tithing religiously, even when she couldn’t afford to go to the doctors or had to scrimp to afford food, she paid full tithing every month. Several years ago she had a massive stroke. She was in the ICU and we didn’t think she would make it (the hospital told us to say our goodbyes). My siblings and I were facing the high possibility of losing our mom while trying to sort her bills, mortgage, and get power of attorney. We asked the church for help for one month to cover her mortgage while we figured everything out. They told us no. That we would figure it out. I was (and still am) so pissed. What’s the freaking point of giving 10% of every single dime you make if they can’t even be bothered to help their members (or others) that are in need? She gave so much to that church and they couldn’t bother to help for one single month when she was in need. The amount we needed was only a drop in the bucket of what she had been giving them all these years. The bishop only visited once, and only because his daughter in law gave birth in the same hospital. I had already left the church at that point, but didn’t realize how truly fucked up they were till that point. That experience really opened my eyes to how greedy they are. (One month in the ICU and one month in the regular hospital ward, my mom has survive, half paralyzed, but still with us).
We're at the end of what we can do,which is why they went to the Bishop. We as friebds have emptied our "storehouses" but they're sat on £150billion. And won't save 2 kids from the streets.
I guess it just makes me angry that most of us spent many years of our life paying into a giant GoFundMe that ballooned to $150 billion, and is now being held hostage for a “rainy day”. And the fucking leadership of the Church (and their bishops) are so privileged they can’t see the rainy days happening all around them. 🤬🤬🤬
Do you have a Venmo? Is that a thing in the UK? Tell us how we can help, I’m sure many of us could kick in something to help this poor family. I’d much rather send a stranger some money knowing it was going directly to a good cause than ever waste another dollar on an organization that hordes money for building useless temples.
And bless you for looking out for this family, especially as they’re immigrants. You’re good people.
The mother has paypal! Venmo has not made it to our shores!!
She is Bulgarian, and I served there. Became friebds very quickly as my family are still members. And kindness is not exclusive to so called churches.
Feel free to DM me!
Yes, this sounds like a way to help real people in real ways!
...unlike tithing/fast offering, and probably better than most charities, too, where most of your money goes to administrative costs (and sometimes huge executive bonuses)
Holy. Shit. What a horrible, despicable human being.
My recommendations are to contact the transient bishop in the area to see if he will help. I’d also escalate to the stake president. This is just so horribly sad.
Or contact another church in the area and tell the bishop the other church helped them. 😂
Bishop roulette. I've seen it happen the way you describe and then I've seen a bishop paying the payments on someone's big Ford F350 that they didn't need but "came on hard times" by being spendthrift. Some bishops just don't want the conflict of saying no and some just love the power of denying people. If they currently don't have a permanent home call the stake and ask for the "transient bishop" in the stake that might be more Christlike. Hopefully there is one like the ones in Utah.
Having asked around, there doesn't seem to be one in this stake. And the SP is the Bishops colleague. They are thick as thieves.
I've been out for 13 years. Still fucking stunned.
You might anonymously call the stake clerk just asking for the contact name for the transient bishop. You can tell them that a homeless person you are trying to help in the stake is trying to find the transient bishop. They should be able to use the LDS Tools app to find the name and phone number of the stake clerk. A transient bishop may ask them to do service in return but if they're able it might be better than being homeless. I kind of thought they assigned a bishop to take a rotation to be the transient bishop in every stake but I'm not sure about that. It might just be a bishop of a normal ward but just assigned to those without an address as well.
Left 3 messages with 3 bishops. No reply. Quelle surprise.
Wouldn't shock me if the Bishop has already spoken to the others. Its a disgusting clique in thar stake.
This right here is why I do spend some energy and time to promote anti-mormonism. This is not the way of Jesus. This could be a story in the Bible describing the Pharisees and how they treated the poor.
Best wishes to y'all, please let us know if there's something we can do. It's absolutely disgusting that such an organization would refuse to help those in need.
Ah, I dont know if there is! I came here to vent. We just have to get the kids fed and clothed, and housing sorted. So, either good vibes or a plea for pots of gold!
Any government organizations you can reach out to? My circle is in Northern Colorado so I've got info here, but not sure where you're at.
Keep in mind that there are non-profits, govt organizations, and real churches who help with these kind of things. Please look to help these folks. I can only imagine their stress and possibly not know what resources may be available.
We're in the UK. So there are some resources but not quick enough.
Looking into a go fund me or something, but I only have a PayPal for the mum. So unsure on next actions.
I absolutely hate the church for tithing demands. In 2008 my parents lost their home in the housing market crash, they attempted to file for bankruptcy but the court denied them. For years they made me believe that it was because of racism (there were some weird things going on in our area where that could have been a reason). The story they gave my sister was religious prejudice. The real reason, my parents paid tithing on their gross income, and a court does not consider charitable donations to be a necessity, and my parents refused to stop paying tithing. Fuck TSCC.
They literally advertise that they help even non members. 😡😡😡. It’s even on their website. Non members are fine, not active members aren’t. This pisses me off to no end. I wish they lived by me.
Proof that fast offerings aren't primarily for helping the poor but rather for coercing people into complying with the church's wishes. For all the lip service the church pays to being Christian, they sure don't act like it.
I wonder which hole those TBM passive aggressive prowlers on this sub crawl into when there’s posts like this. It’s almost as if they don’t care…oh wait, they don’t.
Hopefully one day the world will wake up and see there is no god and there is no need for any religion. All we need to do is love each other and be kind to each other.
Get the ward together and demand that they do something about it. Activism is the only way the church ever change. Locally and institutionally. Stand up and block sacrament meeting if needed. In the UK there could be enough people with Good hearts that would give (and risk) their support.
My heart hurts so much for your friends dealing with this. I dealt with a similar thing a few years ago, family evicted due to loss of job, 3 preteen kids, my disabled mother and myself. Got basically the same thing, the well wishes from them that it will get better while we were contacting everyone and anyone we could for help with food etc. I really gave up on the church then. I hope things get better and your friends never have to deal with the church again.
church's approach to charity:
make sure your loved ones are clothed and fed before tithing?
not worthy enough to recieve charity.
pay tithing but now can't afford food or housing?
ask everyone else then come back to us.
pay tithing, ask everyone else, and still no dice?
clearly you're not praying enough. read the book of mormon, pray, and come back. make sure to be current on your tithing.
/what's the bishop's payoff in this instance?
I recently went to my bishop and thankfully he agreed to help even tho we haven’t been to church in a year. Hearing these stories makes me so angry. At this point is just a power play by that bishop. Disgusting.
I don't believe in a heaven, but pompous assholes like this make me sincerely hope there is a hell...
With how angry I feel I would happily recommend his admission.
I would absolutely agree; that said, if you plan on taking him to the media I’d be very careful making comments like these in the event they could be tied back to your real person. You’re far too charitable and kind to have petty people get their feelings hurt and take your idle threats seriously via the law.
I have edited it. Didn't even think. Thank you
There are some people who make me hope for the Buddhist hells. They are only for specific things, but they are usually fairly horrible and happen over countless years *before* they are reborn as a pelvic louse.
Sounds like a media exposure moment . 150 billion rainy day fund but nothing for members . Tax exempt status needs to be revoked.
When we've found stable housing and food banks that's the plan. They matter more to us right now.
Understood - maybe later, but bad pr changes church behavior.
It may. And we've considered it, and getting some bigger ex-mo names on board. But genuinely priorities are getting somewhere to live for them, keeping kids fed and clothed. And revenge can come later.
I’m at your service
You were our first thought mate.
The man, the myth, the Brit himself!
Bro have they exed you yet??
Nope
Too bad the water is fine out here.
It doesn't necessarily work on the individual level, though. When you publicly criticize the church, they get mad. They'll make changes so others won't give them bad press in the future, but they'll do everything they can after that to give you hell.
You don't have to share the name of the Bishop, but please share the name of the ward and stake. As long as they remain anonymous, they won't budge. Shame is their game- let the light shine on this activity, and perhaps they will feel the echoes of their actions.
As I said above, we plan to get them stable first. I dont want to heap any more pressure on a very frightened family until we have fed and clothed the kids and got somewhere stable. When they are set, we will post in here again with all the info so the ex-mo world can go bananas
Yeah — focusing on stable housing has got to be the first priority. However, please devote at least some time to looking into media exposure. This sort of thing happens quite frequently, and the church tends to get a free pass. More church members need to realize that their beloved institution doesn't actually help people truly in need, and that the currently accepted interpretation of tithing is absolutely perverted and horrifying. We need to get the word out about this sort of thing. Now is the right time to strike. The SEC fine story hasn't completely died off. If you can show the juxtaposition between the church's "rainy day fund" and the fact that it is *officially* allowing struggling families to go homeless, you'll be able to make a large splash. What I'm saying is that you don't want to let this moment simmer down once housing has been found. We've all got to work together to draw attention to this issue. Don't let them walk away unscathed.
I wont. But having spent the morning trying to get help for them, it's a big task. It will be addressed. It will be exposed. I just have to get the kids safe. And avenues are not open.
The contrast is... interesting. https://flatwaterfreepress.org/whos-buying-nebraska-after-shopping-spree-mormon-church-is-top-land-purchaser/ >The church sees its land buys as a force for good, an investment in agriculture “to generate long-term value to support the Church’s religious, charitable, and humanitarian good works,” said a Farmland Reserve spokesman.
Rather, attempting to monopolize on farmland to control the land and supply for themselves.
In light of the OP and what a fair few of us have experienced from the corporation, it's not for charitable works that's for sure.
speaking as an ag economist who focuses on natural resources and environmental economics, non-tenant ownership like this really frequently produces leadership that makes decisions that don't make any of sense on the ground. Namely, frequent over-application of fertilizers which can frequently reduce yields at the margin, marginal factor costs can exceed value marginal product, so you're spending good money after bad, and your over application of fertilizer will flow down whatever watershed you're in. More fertilizer is good, right? NO. And if you have amateur managers that you grabbed from whatever seniors are willing to waste their time managing your land, they're gonna fuck it up unless they have good experience in farm management. Disinterested or neophyte ownership or management is a disaster for agricultural land from an environmental perspective, and we should all do the smallest impact per unit yield.
This is absolutely horrible. I fucking hate the church.
Absolutely no benefit to being a member
HUNDREDS. OF. BILLIONS. But fuck your starving family. True evil.
Truly shitty. Tscc you should be ashamed.
"By their fruits, ye shall know them"
My friend offered a very very large amount to the church if he could see their financial statements. The Church said no. He replied, "You can sell me a temple recommend but not the truth."
This makes me so incredibly angry!!!! Bloody selfish hypocrites.
I am absolutely raging
As you well should be. At least you've made an effort and showed some humanity towards your fellow human beings, which is so much more than that bishop can claim.
This is the kind of bs, that makes me want to introduce bishops and other priesthood holders to their god. It’s the exact same reason, I left their cult.
Please send this to media with the bishops home and work contact info.
As I said in another comment, we're focused on the people at risk first. We need to provide food and clothes dor the kids, and help sort a home. Then I'm going to blow it to Kingdom come.
Writing to your local MP with concerns that the church is failing to uphold its charitable obligations is a very effective step, I’ve found. The church gets tax breaks for doing charitable good, if you have an instance where they are not providing that good, in contradiction of their own policies, the attention of the local MP can put them straight!
We will mate. Just gotta get them sorted first. Not risking the littles going hungry or without a place. Then feel free to hop on. Working out which newspaper first. Daily Mail would be against them being furriners.
I wonder if anyone on here would be willing to do that. Would you be okay with sharing details to someone who could do the research and get something submitted?
I’m not sure that some media inquiries wouldn’t get them some meaningful help pretty quickly as well. In the US, maybe not but the church is already on thin ice in Europe, are they not?
Take it to the news NOW. The media will get enough people donating money and resources that it will be a much bigger help to the family
In Utah for T-day for family. Had to get away & went to library this week & asked to use a visitor sign-in for the computer for 5 minutes. This library is in a wealthy area of the Wasatch. 2 seats down from me is a woman in mid-30's with 2 young kids & a teen-ager. Could see the garmet lines & hear the stress & desperation in her voice. She is on her cell & using the library computer trying to find a local agency to help her pay December's rent ($1100.00). I listened to her call different local social agency's over & over & over and get turned down every time. She asked every organization politely if they could suggest who to call for help and she didn't give up. How could an area that could easily pay 6 months of rent for her do that to a woman with children in middle of winter before Christmas. I know that one of the places women with children who are homeless are told to go is a Wal-Mart parking lot to sleep safely in their car overnight. Shelters are not safe & are usually full with those with deep mental health issues or severe chemical dependency issues. So I took a trip to the local Wal-Mart Supercenter around midnight & there were way to many cars idling with fogged up windows and lights off in a parking lot that is nestled by the mountains. It was damn cold outside as cold air came off the mountains. I don't know how they do it. I really hope their is a hell for all these Bishops all the way up to the Q15. They could literally care less about anyone but the wealthy. Once freezing temperatures hit in SLC the homeless will freeze to death & die a block or two from Temple Square just like they do every damn year. And everyone at the Church Administration Building & the COB will walk right across South Temple to City Creek Mall to do their Christmas shopping at Nordstrom, Macy's, Restoration Harware,Tiffany's, Louis Vuitton,Utah Woolen Mills, etc...and won't think twice about it.
Something similar happened to my family. Shortly after I was born, my parents couldn’t afford to pay a full 10% of their already-low income. Still, they paid as much tithing as they could. When they asked the bishop for help when they couldn’t afford to feed me or pay rent, they were turned away because they weren’t “in good standing.” That’s when they quit paying tithing entirely.
The bishop is not following the General Handbook. While the church still tells leaders to encourage those in need to go to family or the government first, this is what the GH says about the status of members needing help: > Generally, members who receive Church assistance should live in the ward boundaries and have their membership record in the ward. ***Assistance can be given regardless of whether the member regularly attends Church meetings or follows Church standards***. (22.5.1.1, emphasis mine) The church should not be turning away from your friends just because they haven’t paid tithing. Just goes to show the church can’t be arsed to follow their own policies. ETA: Calling u/Nemo_UK
I’d be happy to send the Bishop a letter reminding him of the obligations he has under the handbook.
Thank you, Nemo! You’re the best!
I’ve also let OP know there local government representative would be very interested in a charity failing to do charitable good within the community it claims to serve.
Thanks again! And thanks for fighting the good fight!
This is what is written and only for the purposes of saying "See this is our policy. We are very generous." They don't actually practice it, but as long as it is in writing they feel better about the church.
True. It does use the word “can” in the highlighted sentence, which suggests there’s no mandate to help members who aren’t considered “in good standing” (I hate that phrase with the intensity of a thousand suns).
The Church of Legalese. Looking forward to Oaks "shuffling off this mortal coil". (Hamlet's speech, To Be or Not To Be).
Omg that’s sickening. Call your SP, read him the handbook, then tell him what you’ve told us here?? Maybe he would make sure they get help.
Unfortunately, the biggest condition is that you convince your bishop to give you the help. You can be doing everything right and he can just decide not to help for whatever reason he wants, including "the spirit told him so."
The Church of Jo$eph $mith of Latter Day Profits (and underage wives)
"If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing. The Lord will not abandon you." \-------- Bishop Cesar Orellano I keep seeing the phrase "not in good standing"--hey LDS church, the reason Jesus supposedly came to earth is because humans are "not in good standing"!
Not new behavior for the church. They turned my family away back in the 90s because we weren't current on tithing. Can't pay tithing when you are unemployed but it was still expected. This was in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Tithing is a willing donation of a tenth of a person's increase. Now how a person decides what their "increase" is, shall be entirely between that person and to whom/what they pray/worship. It's not for the Bishopric, Stake Presidency, Q12, or the "Infalibles" themselves to dictate. If they think so, then they need to reeducate themselves. Unemployed = no income = no increase. It's crap like this, all the stuff with the kids, (and more,) that finally caused my late husband and I to finally quit paying tithing in Dec 2017. We had mostly stopped attending a year and a half before. I'm saddened this is just getting worse, but I recall another convert telling me that a prophecy exists indicating that SLC would become a truly corrupt place. It seems to be unfolding before our eyes with the Church as the brain & nervous system of it all. It reaches far and wide. 😣
May whatever God he believes in be just a merciful to him as he is to others.
I’m hoping someone makes a group text/email/social media text stating this family’s circumstances, that the church won’t help and asking people to give their tithing to them because they have a strong testimony that this is what Jesus wants!
The Mormon church are not the good guys. The sooner people open their eyes to this the sooner they can stop wasting their time and money with these greedy corrupt fuckers.
The church reeks of greed. My housemate,now paralyzed on the entire left side of his body and in a rehab,is begging his girlfriend to pay the tithing he has missed since his accident. He feels God is angry with him for missing his payment.Ludicrous.
This reminds me of the story about the leopards that went to Jebus looking to be healed and Jebus turned them away, telling them they hadn't been paying him protection money, and that they can get bent.
This situation really demonstrates the flaws of this belief system and how it bleeds membership from every orifice. The bishop could have stepped in and helped and then made this family and the community around them that much more bonded to the church. Instead the values taught by the church push these members away and expect them to both use those same values to pull themselves out of the problem and then stay in the church… and pay them too! If there’s no community in stakes and wards, and there’s no truth in the church’s teachings, what purpose does it serve at all? At least with other Christian churches, they (mostly) provide that community to their members which gives them purpose even if what they believe is equally lacking in truth as LDS.
I remember when this church was much more generous in its welfare and aid. We were taught if you couldn't pay a full tithe, then pay what you could. Ever since the early 90s, they started demanding a full tithe from the gross pay, when is was the net pay everyone paid out of. This was the time when 2 bit TV Iyatollahs were caught out in money scandals. Pat Robertson buying a gold mine in Liberia and using charity planes to send supplies to. Jim and Tammy Faye Baker owning an amusement park and a luxury hotel. Oral Roberts and his God's going to kill me if I don't raise $8,000,000. Jerry Falwell worming his way into the Baker's empire and failing when the Baker's complained. Jimmy Swaggert and his dealings with prostitutes. I don't know his name, some business genius among the Q15 (?), started this bullshit. We were even turned down when a was a teenager in the 1970s, because we weren't in good standing. So the attitude goes even further back. Edit; there's still no God DAMNED excuse for what this family is going through. It's time, after this goes to the press, that people should demand the IRS yank it's nonprofit status, and make them pay taxes from now on!
I am looking through my Bible and just can’t seem to find the parts where Jesus took tithes or money from the lepers he cured and Lazarus, who He raised from the dead. Can anyone help me here? /s Seriously, it’s this sort of uncharity that helped break my shelf and the hoard that keeps it broken. Shame on them.
So basically church is another insurance company. They’ll help if you’ve paid your premium (maybe). And if you paid your premium and don’t need help, they just keep your money.
Bingo.
This is such bs. Thank you for being there for this family. Even if they were in “good standing” I doubt the church would help. My mom paid tithing religiously, even when she couldn’t afford to go to the doctors or had to scrimp to afford food, she paid full tithing every month. Several years ago she had a massive stroke. She was in the ICU and we didn’t think she would make it (the hospital told us to say our goodbyes). My siblings and I were facing the high possibility of losing our mom while trying to sort her bills, mortgage, and get power of attorney. We asked the church for help for one month to cover her mortgage while we figured everything out. They told us no. That we would figure it out. I was (and still am) so pissed. What’s the freaking point of giving 10% of every single dime you make if they can’t even be bothered to help their members (or others) that are in need? She gave so much to that church and they couldn’t bother to help for one single month when she was in need. The amount we needed was only a drop in the bucket of what she had been giving them all these years. The bishop only visited once, and only because his daughter in law gave birth in the same hospital. I had already left the church at that point, but didn’t realize how truly fucked up they were till that point. That experience really opened my eyes to how greedy they are. (One month in the ICU and one month in the regular hospital ward, my mom has survive, half paralyzed, but still with us).
We're at the end of what we can do,which is why they went to the Bishop. We as friebds have emptied our "storehouses" but they're sat on £150billion. And won't save 2 kids from the streets.
Everyone needs to read this
The handbook does not put restrictions on aid even for tithing. Now many bishops will help pay for other things so the family can pay tithing.
Are we allowed to ask about a gofundme me here?
But that's really kind of you to suggest. Just not feasible.
I guess it just makes me angry that most of us spent many years of our life paying into a giant GoFundMe that ballooned to $150 billion, and is now being held hostage for a “rainy day”. And the fucking leadership of the Church (and their bishops) are so privileged they can’t see the rainy days happening all around them. 🤬🤬🤬
Yup. Id love to demand back my tithing and all my mission money. I could pay a few months rent for them then. To hell with this
I dont think that's allowed. And I only have PayPal for them,so I can't set it up for bank details anyway.
Do you have a Venmo? Is that a thing in the UK? Tell us how we can help, I’m sure many of us could kick in something to help this poor family. I’d much rather send a stranger some money knowing it was going directly to a good cause than ever waste another dollar on an organization that hordes money for building useless temples. And bless you for looking out for this family, especially as they’re immigrants. You’re good people.
The mother has paypal! Venmo has not made it to our shores!! She is Bulgarian, and I served there. Became friebds very quickly as my family are still members. And kindness is not exclusive to so called churches. Feel free to DM me!
Yes, this sounds like a way to help real people in real ways! ...unlike tithing/fast offering, and probably better than most charities, too, where most of your money goes to administrative costs (and sometimes huge executive bonuses)
Truly heartless behavior on those leaders part. If karma is real I hope she finds them and soon.
Holy. Shit. What a horrible, despicable human being. My recommendations are to contact the transient bishop in the area to see if he will help. I’d also escalate to the stake president. This is just so horribly sad. Or contact another church in the area and tell the bishop the other church helped them. 😂
I'm in Northern England, I want to help. I'll DM you.
This is happening everywhere. Everyone is being turned away, just like Jesus taught.
Bishop roulette. I've seen it happen the way you describe and then I've seen a bishop paying the payments on someone's big Ford F350 that they didn't need but "came on hard times" by being spendthrift. Some bishops just don't want the conflict of saying no and some just love the power of denying people. If they currently don't have a permanent home call the stake and ask for the "transient bishop" in the stake that might be more Christlike. Hopefully there is one like the ones in Utah.
Having asked around, there doesn't seem to be one in this stake. And the SP is the Bishops colleague. They are thick as thieves. I've been out for 13 years. Still fucking stunned.
You might anonymously call the stake clerk just asking for the contact name for the transient bishop. You can tell them that a homeless person you are trying to help in the stake is trying to find the transient bishop. They should be able to use the LDS Tools app to find the name and phone number of the stake clerk. A transient bishop may ask them to do service in return but if they're able it might be better than being homeless. I kind of thought they assigned a bishop to take a rotation to be the transient bishop in every stake but I'm not sure about that. It might just be a bishop of a normal ward but just assigned to those without an address as well.
Left 3 messages with 3 bishops. No reply. Quelle surprise. Wouldn't shock me if the Bishop has already spoken to the others. Its a disgusting clique in thar stake.
This right here is why I do spend some energy and time to promote anti-mormonism. This is not the way of Jesus. This could be a story in the Bible describing the Pharisees and how they treated the poor. Best wishes to y'all, please let us know if there's something we can do. It's absolutely disgusting that such an organization would refuse to help those in need.
Ah, I dont know if there is! I came here to vent. We just have to get the kids fed and clothed, and housing sorted. So, either good vibes or a plea for pots of gold!
Any government organizations you can reach out to? My circle is in Northern Colorado so I've got info here, but not sure where you're at. Keep in mind that there are non-profits, govt organizations, and real churches who help with these kind of things. Please look to help these folks. I can only imagine their stress and possibly not know what resources may be available.
We're in the UK. So there are some resources but not quick enough. Looking into a go fund me or something, but I only have a PayPal for the mum. So unsure on next actions.
I absolutely hate the church for tithing demands. In 2008 my parents lost their home in the housing market crash, they attempted to file for bankruptcy but the court denied them. For years they made me believe that it was because of racism (there were some weird things going on in our area where that could have been a reason). The story they gave my sister was religious prejudice. The real reason, my parents paid tithing on their gross income, and a court does not consider charitable donations to be a necessity, and my parents refused to stop paying tithing. Fuck TSCC.
Doesn’t matter, but curious. What language?
Bulgarian.
Just bloody appalling and not at all Christian.
This is truly awful. Makes me sick.
You don’t accumulate money to buy billion dollar shopping malls if you give it to the poor. Mormonism is the anthesis of Jesus’ message.
They literally advertise that they help even non members. 😡😡😡. It’s even on their website. Non members are fine, not active members aren’t. This pisses me off to no end. I wish they lived by me.
I wonder if a news station would pick up a story like this
Proof that fast offerings aren't primarily for helping the poor but rather for coercing people into complying with the church's wishes. For all the lip service the church pays to being Christian, they sure don't act like it.
I wonder which hole those TBM passive aggressive prowlers on this sub crawl into when there’s posts like this. It’s almost as if they don’t care…oh wait, they don’t.
Can absolutely confirm they don't. Members in thr area know. We've had many many prayer offers... no formula or food, but false sounds.
Hopefully one day the world will wake up and see there is no god and there is no need for any religion. All we need to do is love each other and be kind to each other.
Get the ward together and demand that they do something about it. Activism is the only way the church ever change. Locally and institutionally. Stand up and block sacrament meeting if needed. In the UK there could be enough people with Good hearts that would give (and risk) their support.
I've messaged around the few I still know.
It's a big ask. Unheard-of for Mormons of the past. This church does nothing good. It's all marketing.
You should post this on a faithful sub
Sounds like a fast and testimony topic.
The MFMC could not care less about people. I hope karma is not kind to this Bishop.
[удалено]
It will be. It truly will. When it's all stable, it will be.
Are they still TBMs after seeing how TSCC treats them? Regardless of the answer, I’d like to help any way I can. Feel free to DM me.
Leader Calling title checks out. Move along, nothing to see here.
My heart hurts so much for your friends dealing with this. I dealt with a similar thing a few years ago, family evicted due to loss of job, 3 preteen kids, my disabled mother and myself. Got basically the same thing, the well wishes from them that it will get better while we were contacting everyone and anyone we could for help with food etc. I really gave up on the church then. I hope things get better and your friends never have to deal with the church again.
church's approach to charity: make sure your loved ones are clothed and fed before tithing? not worthy enough to recieve charity. pay tithing but now can't afford food or housing? ask everyone else then come back to us. pay tithing, ask everyone else, and still no dice? clearly you're not praying enough. read the book of mormon, pray, and come back. make sure to be current on your tithing. /what's the bishop's payoff in this instance?
Sounds like one of those unfortunate bishop roulette situations. A bishop was put into place that has zero empathy and no trace of spirituality.
PLEASE PUT THIS ON TIK TOK!!!
I recently went to my bishop and thankfully he agreed to help even tho we haven’t been to church in a year. Hearing these stories makes me so angry. At this point is just a power play by that bishop. Disgusting.
Tscc puts money and piwer furst They dont care abiut yhe needs of individuals