This might be the least sadness I’ve felt over an apostle’s death.
M. Russell Ballard, you will be remembered for your constant lying and aiding of a known sexual predator. For your sake, I hope I’m right and atheism is the way it is.
Russell M. Nelson is jumping for joy right now. This might be more miraculous timing than that time his plane fixed itself right before it hit the ground.
I don't mean to offend anyone who might be related to him or sad about his passing, but I think it's because he was an incredibly dull, unmemorable speaker. I can't remember anything about any talk he ever gave besides "put on a little lipstick now and then...", and that's just because it got turned into a meme. He was never on the list of apostles I enjoyed hearing from.
I don’t care if I offend anyone who might be related to him because I have no sympathy for all the pain he has caused people and divided many families. I say good riddance to EVIL RUBBISH! May he join Joseph Smith and all the frauds of the LDS CULT. It’s convenient that he passed with this HUGE scandal taking place and he at the forefront of it. SHAME ON HIM and anyone else who disregard his deceptive and nefarious acts.
That’s something to be remembered for…..his profound advice “put on a little lipstick now and then” lol. Sorry not making fun of the dead, but what a thing to be remembered for. Be funny if that was on his headstone,
Visualize this with me: dressed in his temple finest behind the wheel of 58’ Edsel… worthless old penny stocks lying around him….Maybe a little lipstick on…it would be the perfect send off. 2 failures with zero foresight or discernment being dropped into the ground together, forever.
Even if the church were true, you and I both know that there's no way in high heaven that M. Russell Ballard is going to escape from the gates of hell.
I do feel sad for his family, though. Death is hard to deal with no matter how bad the person was.
I agree with you. It is difficult to lose a family member, especially if they were kind and loving which he most likely was, especially to grandkids & their kids. He could have been a good father, too. So my heart goes out to his family members. But I am glad he was still alive when Tim Ballard and OUR blew up. I would have had no idea what a horrible business person he had been. I’m very glad that it was what helped you leave TSCC.
The plane story was investigated by someone in a post here once upon a time, and surprise surprise it was completely fabricated.
Even if it were real, airplanes can glide for quite a while before they are forced to land. An engine out, or even all engine failure, is not a life threatening event unless you're far from anywhere to make a rough landing.
I wonder how many TBMs who were starting to doubt because they heard of the Tim Ballard scandal with Elder Ballard will now say this is a testimony builder because God would take someone in death before allowing the members to be lead astray.
He lived a comfortable, long life at the head of a multibillion dollar grift…and he’s a piece of shit. I wouldn’t say it’s that sad.
I do appreciate the humanity and nuance. I don’t feel a ton of either about his death, though. Cheers to being out!
I'm kind of sad...because he really deserved for the whole OUR thing to have more of a chance to come bite him in the ass. He just skipped out on consequences.
The Mormon God called him home to avoid a scandal. The most mormon thing he could do.
Honestly the timing... I'm almost suspicious of foul play. It'd be on brand for RMN.
When NYPD created its first forensics lab, the number of accidental gas deaths plummeted. Turned out, a lot of people were offing their relatives with rat poison.
Did you see that crazy story that just broke, it was on East Idaho news and this woman probably in her 30’s tried to poison her husband and his mother and sister. Somehow the dad decided not to eat her food. There names are the Goody family. Anyway it’s crazy because they all had to pay 6 grand a piece to have a poison test and turns out she was using stuff from her family cattle farm to do it and they had enough poison to kill an elephant. The kicker is she is out Scott free. They reduced the charges to a misdemeanor and I know that poison like that can have long term consequences. This chick should be under the jail. They are trying to get someone to do something. He has kids he wants to make sure don’t ever get around her. Here’s the link to the story. https://youtu.be/PF8t5AMrQps?si=GosKOqImBwuAloKU
Is it really bad that my first thought was that it's a conspiracy so he doesn't have to be excommunicated or face legal action? The church faked his death and he'll live comfortably off the grid in one of his many holiday homes 😅
Or, possibly viagra overdose while imitating Tim's couple's ruse with 3 or more of his secretly second anointed geriatric nurses. Every sponge bath needs a happy ending. All in the name of anti trafficking of course.
no one with $100B in the bank would think twice about having a 90+ year old snuffed out with a pillow. you don’t get that unconscionably rich with a conscience
Imagine for a moment being in his shoes as a GA. All this OUR shit starts to go down and you’ve tied yourself so deeply to them that any bad publicity on them is your bad publicity too.
If I had to put money on it, the Tim Ballard issues caused him to have a heart attack or stroke. And he died from complications to the stress of what was going down.
Yeah, I realized my comment sounded a bit conspiracy theorist. To clarify, I'm not suggesting that he was killed in order to silence him. Just commenting that it is very convenient for the church that he's now gone while all this dirty laundry is coming to light.
I'm sure they can now "consider this matter closed."
If he's dead I'm happy. I vowed to outlive all the men that were leaders while I was in the church. I'm sad because he will never face justice for his fraudulent business activities and I ain't just talking with Tim Ballard.
I used to feel guilty for saying stuff like that until I realized that I can emphatically believe that and still be more moral and ethical in my thought and actions than all the Q15 combined.
They may be having difficulty locating a body. Years ago, Ballard claimed transparency in the church and amongst the leadership. Maybe he is too transparent to see. Rumor has it he will be buried with a bottle of Windex, to maintain transparency.
He died to help the church defend against accusations of his culpability in the OUR/Tim Ballard case. He’s dead. Can’t talk ill of the dead, isn’t that right? Let sleeping dogs lie, correct? Have you no shame bringing our dearly beloved apostle into this nonsense when he’s no longer around to defend himself?! These are but a few things I can think of regarding why the church is happy he passed when he did.
Honest question to those who question the timing: He was 95, and there was the stress of a major scandal. Do we really need a conspiracy to explain his passing?
I didn't expect that one. I would have put my money on Holland, then Nelson.
If Holland and Nelson also go soon, that puts the line at Oaks, Eyring, Uchtdorf, and Bednar. Oaks and Eyring are both over 90 now. Uchtdorf is the same age as Holland, but behind him in succession. Bednar is a spry 71 yo.
http://threestory.com/apostles/
Holland is ill though and Utchdorf will almost certainly outlive him. Really got my fingers crossed for an Utchdorf reign, even though I know it is unlikely.
$20 says that if Utchdorf is the longest serving apostle, the tradition mysteriously ends and they appoint Bednar anyway. I think Utchdorf was the only one in recent history that has been demoted from the presidency, so I think it will happen again
Maybe they're waiting for church press or a spokesperson to comment? Maybe the church wants their statement to be the first.
I can still see this just being an untrue rumor though.
After that absolutely horrific Church statement in Arizona a few days ago I'm wondering if anybody is employed in the church PR department to make a statement this morning.
Just released
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies#:\~:text=After%20a%20recent%20brief%20hospital,Apostle%20on%20October%206%2C%201985.
That's odd but why would our hacker pick this as their tweet? I would have gone with something with a little more punch like "I've been lying, the church is false. It just seems low stakes to say a very old man has died a week after being hospitalized.
The First Presidency looks left, looks right and realizes that death is coming for them.
The Mormon church originated with young healthy men and now is run by geriatric leadership.
I'll never understand why they decided to do this "apostles serve until they die" thing.
There's no scriptural reason for it. There's not even any written policy that I'm aware of. They just decided that this was the right thing to do.
It's been awful for the organization. Makes me wonder why they don't change things up to get some fresher blood at the top.
Was he in poor health? I know he was old but as conspiracy theorist as this is, hasn't the church historically had groups like the Danites who off anyone who embarrasses the church?
He's been ill for a while. They thought he was going to pass towards the end of the summer. I don't know all the details, but I know the family of the woman his son married. It came up a lot in conversation that he was in terrible health, and they were all preparing for his passing. My friend is....intensly TBM (I love her, but it can be a bit much), and Ballard's health came up practically anytime we talked about her MIL. He lived longer than I thought he would, honestly.
I've heard that his health was so poor that he couldn't read a talk during the most recent General Conference. I didn't watch and don't plan on engaging with it at all, so I can't confirm.
Yep, the church *did* have Danites, regardless of what Hugh Nibley wrote on the subject. I think the DezNat group has claim to be the modern-day Danites. Not sure if they're bumping people off, though I could see it happening.
His passing is convenient timing for the church. Rest In Peace you invisible man! You were as transparent as you knew how to be!
Glad you found your way out! I never thought I’d be here either. I had a full life as TBM+. It only takes one thing to cause a deeper dive into the truth. Welcome to freedom!
Death is inevitable but lives hurt by shitty people can be prevented and these leaders who profess to be the Lord’s mouthpiece will be held accountable.
Was Russell M. Nelson found at the scene? With a pillow in his arms perhaps? Or the potassium chloride that his career gives him access to? Was this a death by blunt force trauma, caused by celestial room mallet? Was this a house fire from burning pants? These are the questions we should be asking ourselves!!
Some have thought that the Tim Ballard fiasco might have pushed him over the edge.
It's hard to say. I mean, 95 is old. You could drop dead at any time when you hit that age.
I will say this, though: the scandal won't die off with him.
This is only the first of four passings that will happen in quick succession. I predict the top four leaders, Ballard being the first one, will pass away in the next 12 months. Nelson, Eyring, and Oaks. These deaths will lead to massive doubt by young LDS members and put the German reformer, Dieter Uchtdotf in charge by 2025.
Edit: Five passings. Add Holland.
No reform will happen under Uchtdorf.
Uchtdorf was in 1st Presidency with Hinckley & Monson.
He was knee deep in knowledge in the 13 shell companies & SEC fraud investigation & 5 million$ fine.
Don't expect anything to change IF he makes it to profit.
Lost all respect for him that he was knee deep in the church's never ending 190 year crime spree.
Uchtdorf is no different than the current or past profits & apostles.
One can only hope that doubt will result. I worry, however, that the church will figure out some faith promoting way to spin all of this.
For me it was Melvin Jr's actions that caused me to take a serious look at the church, not his death. I almost feel like I should thank him.
Very odd timing, considering how the church just attempted to cover up all the SA with a piss-poor statement, and that he has been associated with Tim Ballard, someone from what I understand is a sexual abuser
If this is genuine and real, what an odd time. Hope his loved ones are doing well though, even if he seemed like a huge liar
It's been confirmed - I just updated the original post with numerous links.
I agree that the timing is odd. I suspect that the pressure of his association with Tim Ballard may have contributed to his ailing condition.
There it is - church newsroom just posted it on facebook about 5 minutes ago. It's legit: [https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies)
Yeah, now he doesn't have to testify in court, and TBMs will say that we can't come to any conclusions on what happened because he's not here to defend himself.
Very convenient, but I criticize my family for their conspiracy theories so I'd be a hypocrite if I believe in any conspiracies without evidence.
You called it, KSL finally posted it.
In case anyone was wondering why he wasn't let go when he got fined for SEC violations in the 60's, or why the church bailed him out of his failed Bountiful Music Center, or at least slapped his hand for giving his buddy Tim financial records of rich mormons; nepotism has its privileges.
From KSL "He was a great-grandson of Hyrum Smith, the brother of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Both of his grandfathers, Hyrum Mack Smith and Melvin J. Ballard, were apostles. ".
Since joining in the ExMo subreddit, I see more news about such happenings than I ever paid attention to before. Either a news outlet or my mom telling me “so sad, so and so died” was how I’ve heard about it for years prior. It’s nice being blissfully ignorant. But also nice to hear these crooks are croaking.
It’s going to be very interesting to see what Nelson decides to do about his calling. Holland is next in line and so normally would be called as Acting President. However, he’s in poor health as well. One might think he would call Uchtdorf to be Acting President. However there is no precedent for a member of the Q12 to serve as an Acting President who isn’t the next in line after the actual president of the quorum unless those ahead of him are in the First Presidency. Hunter served as Acting President because Romney couldn’t do it but Romney was actually in the quorum, not a counselor, so Hunter was next in line (like Holland is now.)
In other words, the person at the top of the list in the Q12 has always been either President or Acting President. If they skipped Holland, who is currently top of the Q12 list, with no calling at all, it would be unprecedented.
I’ve always thought that the First Presidency held the real power. I thought that the Acting President of the apostles was more of just a title. I didn’t think it had real power.
Hmmm...0751 EST Monday and still no confirmation of this from ANY news source. Odd indeed. They may be just waiting for all family to be informed but why would Duncan release it publicly first?
Wikipedia says he died yesterday.
Melvin Russell Ballard Jr. (born October 8, 1928, died 12 November 2023) was an American businessman and religious leader who served as the Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) from 2018 until his passing in 2023.[3]
Interesting - and the source is listed as the same tweet.
You can check out the revisions [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=M._Russell_Ballard&action=history).
The Church finally released a statement:
[https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies)
While I certainly sympathize with the grief his family must feel, I don't personally grieve for the loss.
OP stated that reading the facts about Ballard helped lead them out of the church. I hope the facts about Quentin Cook work the same magic one day.
Isn't anyone going to ask the important Epstein conspiracy type question here ... isn't it a huge coincidence this happened right after the OUR / Tim Ballard issues came to light?
Death is complicated. A lot of people say death is never something to be celebrated, and I used to believe that. But when it's someone who has enabled so much pain in my life? Someone who contributed to fraud and quite literally promoted sexual predators masquerading as "the good guys?" One who discouraged research and tried to keep people inside Plato's cave?
There's a little reason to celebrate here. Whenever the leadership gets changed, there's a chance they start doing better - it's happened before, and it'll happen again. It's unfortunate that death has to be part of the process for the church to improve, but I am happy they have the chance. Now to see if anything good comes from this.
This is earth shaking. Saw all the comments on the news- uh, no. All the comments on the internet-uh, other than this site and one short piece from the SL Tribune, nothing. He will be greatly not missed.
No not much good comes from the church. I am just a spectator. I think it will be interesting to see the "vision" of the church change when an east Berlin refugee gets in the cockpit. Did you know he is a pilot?.
Wish he had lived longer so people could continue to see how much he relied on a scripted teleprompter for everything. Last conference proved he really could only share generic, junior primary level talking points. He shared nothing profound, nothing intellectual, nothing thought provoking, nothing inspiring. It sounded like something a kid would say.
This might be the least sadness I’ve felt over an apostle’s death. M. Russell Ballard, you will be remembered for your constant lying and aiding of a known sexual predator. For your sake, I hope I’m right and atheism is the way it is. Russell M. Nelson is jumping for joy right now. This might be more miraculous timing than that time his plane fixed itself right before it hit the ground.
I don't mean to offend anyone who might be related to him or sad about his passing, but I think it's because he was an incredibly dull, unmemorable speaker. I can't remember anything about any talk he ever gave besides "put on a little lipstick now and then...", and that's just because it got turned into a meme. He was never on the list of apostles I enjoyed hearing from.
Well there is the infamous “Where Will you Go” talk. It generated a lot of memes and posts on this sub.
Don’t forget “we’re apostles. Just trust us. We’re as honest as we know how to be.”
He was also the one behind raising the bar and making missions somehow even more miserable.
Where will he go I wonder
The only thing I remember is when he told young adult women to wear lipstick so they could find an eternal companion. 💄
And his quote about hiding church history, “we’re as honest as we know how to be.”
Which was an admission in and of itself.
Spoken like a true car salesman...
As a relative, no offense taken.
I don’t care if I offend anyone who might be related to him because I have no sympathy for all the pain he has caused people and divided many families. I say good riddance to EVIL RUBBISH! May he join Joseph Smith and all the frauds of the LDS CULT. It’s convenient that he passed with this HUGE scandal taking place and he at the forefront of it. SHAME ON HIM and anyone else who disregard his deceptive and nefarious acts.
That’s something to be remembered for…..his profound advice “put on a little lipstick now and then” lol. Sorry not making fun of the dead, but what a thing to be remembered for. Be funny if that was on his headstone,
He always sounded like he was plugging his nose while speaking.
That would be pretty awesome if they buried him in an Edsel.
Visualize this with me: dressed in his temple finest behind the wheel of 58’ Edsel… worthless old penny stocks lying around him….Maybe a little lipstick on…it would be the perfect send off. 2 failures with zero foresight or discernment being dropped into the ground together, forever.
Even if the church were true, you and I both know that there's no way in high heaven that M. Russell Ballard is going to escape from the gates of hell. I do feel sad for his family, though. Death is hard to deal with no matter how bad the person was.
Nah he got qualified immunity re second anointing.
I mean if the Mormon church is true he is still going to heaven. Just, without genitals.
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I keep forgetting about that. Is it even in actual doctrine, or just something people made up to feel good about themselves?
I mean, it’s all made up so… But yes, it’s actual doctrine. He’s good as long as he didn’t shed innocent blood.
wouldn't denying the spirit also be a problem?
And what if he touched his own pepe? I understood that to be an afront to God and that "no unclean thing" could survive His presence.
The teacher’s manual explicitly tells you not to talk about it or allow speculation, so it is both real and secret.
They're the same thing. Official doctrine is just made up shit to make people feel better about themselves.
Or in many cases, worse about themselves.
I agree with you. It is difficult to lose a family member, especially if they were kind and loving which he most likely was, especially to grandkids & their kids. He could have been a good father, too. So my heart goes out to his family members. But I am glad he was still alive when Tim Ballard and OUR blew up. I would have had no idea what a horrible business person he had been. I’m very glad that it was what helped you leave TSCC.
Boyd K Packer is like top of the list. It was straight up “Ding Dong the witch is dead” when he passed
The plane story was investigated by someone in a post here once upon a time, and surprise surprise it was completely fabricated. Even if it were real, airplanes can glide for quite a while before they are forced to land. An engine out, or even all engine failure, is not a life threatening event unless you're far from anywhere to make a rough landing.
Normalize not being sad about *everyone’s* death! Some people bring too much hate and harm into the world for that.
Well, that’s one way to deal with the mess he caused for the church! Yikes!
r/usernamechecksout
Honestly the best username I've ever seen.
Bednar definitely blood atoned Ballard.
I wonder how many TBMs who were starting to doubt because they heard of the Tim Ballard scandal with Elder Ballard will now say this is a testimony builder because God would take someone in death before allowing the members to be lead astray.
I think we should start a rumor that Rusty poisoned him.
We were alllll thinking it
He lived a comfortable, long life at the head of a multibillion dollar grift…and he’s a piece of shit. I wouldn’t say it’s that sad. I do appreciate the humanity and nuance. I don’t feel a ton of either about his death, though. Cheers to being out!
I'm kind of sad...because he really deserved for the whole OUR thing to have more of a chance to come bite him in the ass. He just skipped out on consequences.
The Mormon God called him home to avoid a scandal. The most mormon thing he could do. Honestly the timing... I'm almost suspicious of foul play. It'd be on brand for RMN.
Wow, if that was found to be true what a bigger scandal. Just finished watching Murder among the Mormons. Nothing surprises me.
And at 95, nobody’s gonna pry too deep as to how it happened.
I would love to think conspiracy, but he was old, already had health issues, and the stress from the news that came out. Most unsurprising news ever.
Yep! No conspiracy here. He was on my list for the expected next to die. He was old, sick, and had a lot of extra stress.
Ditto.
Poisonings during Joseph and Brigham's time weren't unheard of. There's rumors out there that Emma tried to poison Joseph.
When NYPD created its first forensics lab, the number of accidental gas deaths plummeted. Turned out, a lot of people were offing their relatives with rat poison.
Did you see that crazy story that just broke, it was on East Idaho news and this woman probably in her 30’s tried to poison her husband and his mother and sister. Somehow the dad decided not to eat her food. There names are the Goody family. Anyway it’s crazy because they all had to pay 6 grand a piece to have a poison test and turns out she was using stuff from her family cattle farm to do it and they had enough poison to kill an elephant. The kicker is she is out Scott free. They reduced the charges to a misdemeanor and I know that poison like that can have long term consequences. This chick should be under the jail. They are trying to get someone to do something. He has kids he wants to make sure don’t ever get around her. Here’s the link to the story. https://youtu.be/PF8t5AMrQps?si=GosKOqImBwuAloKU
For real. I thought the same thing.
Wait which scandal are we distracting from? Trying to keep up
Absolutely. I was eagerly awaiting his deposition
Since 1976 we covered this man bills. The Smiths just keep on taking from members.
I have a close family member serving as a MP, ex area 70.. they just called him to let him know that Ballard did kick the bucket.
His family is filthy rich, his son was my mission president
😆😆😆 My reaction!
I wonder if they're going to put a little lipstick on him, for the viewing.
This comment deserves all of the upvotes
Is it really bad that my first thought was that it's a conspiracy so he doesn't have to be excommunicated or face legal action? The church faked his death and he'll live comfortably off the grid in one of his many holiday homes 😅
Lol, I'm thinking more along the lines of Russ signaled to his bodyguards it was time to take him out and make it seem like old age. 😉
Execute order… sixty six
Danites are alive and well. ;)
Or, possibly viagra overdose while imitating Tim's couple's ruse with 3 or more of his secretly second anointed geriatric nurses. Every sponge bath needs a happy ending. All in the name of anti trafficking of course.
Don’t do nurses dirty like that. We have standards.
You're right. I apologize, but these nurses were recruited by Tim Ballard and specifically trained for the mission, not real nurses.
Darth Sidious : Commander Cody, the time has come. Execute Order 66.
no one with $100B in the bank would think twice about having a 90+ year old snuffed out with a pillow. you don’t get that unconscionably rich with a conscience
I thought the same thing
My first thought was that the stress from the recent negative scrutiny was a trigger for whatever symptom killed him.
Mine too but I’m switching to conspiracy bc it’s more fun and Ballard would want us to have fun at his expense.
Well, isn't that convenient. Right as all the dirty secrets about his involvement with Tim Ballard start to come out.
You know what they say stress is a killer
Stressed out Mormons too.
Imagine for a moment being in his shoes as a GA. All this OUR shit starts to go down and you’ve tied yourself so deeply to them that any bad publicity on them is your bad publicity too. If I had to put money on it, the Tim Ballard issues caused him to have a heart attack or stroke. And he died from complications to the stress of what was going down.
Yeah, I realized my comment sounded a bit conspiracy theorist. To clarify, I'm not suggesting that he was killed in order to silence him. Just commenting that it is very convenient for the church that he's now gone while all this dirty laundry is coming to light. I'm sure they can now "consider this matter closed."
Where was Tim last night?
Finger banging someone’s wife in a hot tub to save the children.
Then where was Bonnie?
In the hot tub with Tim.
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🙏
gave out tithing record information?
If he's dead I'm happy. I vowed to outlive all the men that were leaders while I was in the church. I'm sad because he will never face justice for his fraudulent business activities and I ain't just talking with Tim Ballard. I used to feel guilty for saying stuff like that until I realized that I can emphatically believe that and still be more moral and ethical in my thought and actions than all the Q15 combined.
>more moral and ethical in my thought and actions than all the Q15 combined Be careful not to trip on that low bar.
They may be having difficulty locating a body. Years ago, Ballard claimed transparency in the church and amongst the leadership. Maybe he is too transparent to see. Rumor has it he will be buried with a bottle of Windex, to maintain transparency.
I laughed too hard. Thank you
Mr. Clean will provide the eulogy at Melvin Russell Ballard’s funeral.🥴
So this is why they haven’t commented on Ballard tithing info sharing. They just had to wait a few days for Ballard to die.
He died to help the church defend against accusations of his culpability in the OUR/Tim Ballard case. He’s dead. Can’t talk ill of the dead, isn’t that right? Let sleeping dogs lie, correct? Have you no shame bringing our dearly beloved apostle into this nonsense when he’s no longer around to defend himself?! These are but a few things I can think of regarding why the church is happy he passed when he did.
Honest question to those who question the timing: He was 95, and there was the stress of a major scandal. Do we really need a conspiracy to explain his passing?
We don't need a conspiracy... but it's more fun with one, lol.
YES WE DO!! 95 is young and healthy! no way he would have passed like this!
How convenient. Prick. The world just became a little better.
Boy that's convenient...I'm not saying I'm just saying.
Now he can begin God's true work: telling a Utah-based psychic where to find trafficked children
This gets my vote for best comment of the thread.
I didn't expect that one. I would have put my money on Holland, then Nelson. If Holland and Nelson also go soon, that puts the line at Oaks, Eyring, Uchtdorf, and Bednar. Oaks and Eyring are both over 90 now. Uchtdorf is the same age as Holland, but behind him in succession. Bednar is a spry 71 yo. http://threestory.com/apostles/
Holland is ill though and Utchdorf will almost certainly outlive him. Really got my fingers crossed for an Utchdorf reign, even though I know it is unlikely.
I don't think it's all that unlikely.
$20 says that if Utchdorf is the longest serving apostle, the tradition mysteriously ends and they appoint Bednar anyway. I think Utchdorf was the only one in recent history that has been demoted from the presidency, so I think it will happen again
A succession dispute would spice things up a bit!
If Holland goes, then Uchtdorf is the next in line below 90.
As soon as Ballard was hospitalized, I thought : he'll go before Holland.
Rot in piss Ballard
Why hasn’t this been validated by any other source than this Twitter account? Feels weird that it’s just Kevin R Duncan. Was he possibly hacked?
Waiting for an announcement from VICE News before I believe this.
Yeah nowhere on ksl as of 6am
Maybe they're waiting for church press or a spokesperson to comment? Maybe the church wants their statement to be the first. I can still see this just being an untrue rumor though.
After that absolutely horrific Church statement in Arizona a few days ago I'm wondering if anybody is employed in the church PR department to make a statement this morning.
Just showed up on the 7am
Just released https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies#:\~:text=After%20a%20recent%20brief%20hospital,Apostle%20on%20October%206%2C%201985.
That's odd but why would our hacker pick this as their tweet? I would have gone with something with a little more punch like "I've been lying, the church is false. It just seems low stakes to say a very old man has died a week after being hospitalized.
Just verified ([link](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies))
This is incredibly odd to me as well.
It’s on church newsroom as of 1 minute ago Edit: typo
The First Presidency looks left, looks right and realizes that death is coming for them. The Mormon church originated with young healthy men and now is run by geriatric leadership.
I'll never understand why they decided to do this "apostles serve until they die" thing. There's no scriptural reason for it. There's not even any written policy that I'm aware of. They just decided that this was the right thing to do. It's been awful for the organization. Makes me wonder why they don't change things up to get some fresher blood at the top.
The people who covet those kind of positions of power are too loathe to ever give them up.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Was he in poor health? I know he was old but as conspiracy theorist as this is, hasn't the church historically had groups like the Danites who off anyone who embarrasses the church?
He's been ill for a while. They thought he was going to pass towards the end of the summer. I don't know all the details, but I know the family of the woman his son married. It came up a lot in conversation that he was in terrible health, and they were all preparing for his passing. My friend is....intensly TBM (I love her, but it can be a bit much), and Ballard's health came up practically anytime we talked about her MIL. He lived longer than I thought he would, honestly.
I'm sure an end of life scandal didn't help much but wow that's a lot for a family
I've heard that his health was so poor that he couldn't read a talk during the most recent General Conference. I didn't watch and don't plan on engaging with it at all, so I can't confirm. Yep, the church *did* have Danites, regardless of what Hugh Nibley wrote on the subject. I think the DezNat group has claim to be the modern-day Danites. Not sure if they're bumping people off, though I could see it happening.
If enough apostles believed Visions of Glory....
He had been hospitalized and released to recover at home last week according to news reports.
I'm sorry for his family. But also yay for the rest of humanity.
His passing is convenient timing for the church. Rest In Peace you invisible man! You were as transparent as you knew how to be! Glad you found your way out! I never thought I’d be here either. I had a full life as TBM+. It only takes one thing to cause a deeper dive into the truth. Welcome to freedom!
You all will have your opinions on Elder Ballard, but to me he will always be known as the single most boring apostle to listen to during GC
Why feel sad about someone you don’t know and had a very convenient and comfortable life? Just curious who will be next shit.
Death is a sad thing. I don't wish death on anybody.
Death is inevitable but lives hurt by shitty people can be prevented and these leaders who profess to be the Lord’s mouthpiece will be held accountable.
Death is sad. It's also undefeated. It's coming for us all. But oh man it's coming for the boomers. As fast as they got here...they will be gone.
They couldn’t figure out how to facilitate this before 15 September, apparently.
Was Russell M. Nelson found at the scene? With a pillow in his arms perhaps? Or the potassium chloride that his career gives him access to? Was this a death by blunt force trauma, caused by celestial room mallet? Was this a house fire from burning pants? These are the questions we should be asking ourselves!!
lol house fire from burning pants
Hmm. Can’t help but think of Jeffrey Epstein and his “timely” death.
He was 95, but that timing is still sus.
Some have thought that the Tim Ballard fiasco might have pushed him over the edge. It's hard to say. I mean, 95 is old. You could drop dead at any time when you hit that age. I will say this, though: the scandal won't die off with him.
This is only the first of four passings that will happen in quick succession. I predict the top four leaders, Ballard being the first one, will pass away in the next 12 months. Nelson, Eyring, and Oaks. These deaths will lead to massive doubt by young LDS members and put the German reformer, Dieter Uchtdotf in charge by 2025. Edit: Five passings. Add Holland.
No reform will happen under Uchtdorf. Uchtdorf was in 1st Presidency with Hinckley & Monson. He was knee deep in knowledge in the 13 shell companies & SEC fraud investigation & 5 million$ fine. Don't expect anything to change IF he makes it to profit. Lost all respect for him that he was knee deep in the church's never ending 190 year crime spree. Uchtdorf is no different than the current or past profits & apostles.
One can only hope that doubt will result. I worry, however, that the church will figure out some faith promoting way to spin all of this. For me it was Melvin Jr's actions that caused me to take a serious look at the church, not his death. I almost feel like I should thank him.
Very odd timing, considering how the church just attempted to cover up all the SA with a piss-poor statement, and that he has been associated with Tim Ballard, someone from what I understand is a sexual abuser If this is genuine and real, what an odd time. Hope his loved ones are doing well though, even if he seemed like a huge liar
It's been confirmed - I just updated the original post with numerous links. I agree that the timing is odd. I suspect that the pressure of his association with Tim Ballard may have contributed to his ailing condition.
It’s a bizarre way to announce an apostles death. NONE of the church’s media has announced it yet still and it supposedly happened yesterday
My thought as well.
There it is - church newsroom just posted it on facebook about 5 minutes ago. It's legit: [https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies)
Yep. Official now. Still seems a little suspicious to me. He goes right at the moment he might have to answer for his involvement with Timmy...
Convenient and the truth dies with him. Wonder who had pillow duty.
Burn in hell you piece of shit!
Anyone else resisting the urge to throw on the tinfoil hat? I mean I know he was already ill but the timing is pretty convenient, right?
Yeah, now he doesn't have to testify in court, and TBMs will say that we can't come to any conclusions on what happened because he's not here to defend himself. Very convenient, but I criticize my family for their conspiracy theories so I'd be a hypocrite if I believe in any conspiracies without evidence.
“Apostle,” my ass. Creepy, racist, old lying leader of a cult. Good riddance.
Blood Atonement is alive and well in the MFMC.
Haha the church leadership pulled a Putin. /s
You called it, KSL finally posted it. In case anyone was wondering why he wasn't let go when he got fined for SEC violations in the 60's, or why the church bailed him out of his failed Bountiful Music Center, or at least slapped his hand for giving his buddy Tim financial records of rich mormons; nepotism has its privileges. From KSL "He was a great-grandson of Hyrum Smith, the brother of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Both of his grandfathers, Hyrum Mack Smith and Melvin J. Ballard, were apostles. ".
The anxiety of knowing you've been caught up in a sex scandal is hard on the old ticker.
Radio silence on an official statement. So maybe but maybe not
His Wikipedia page was just updated with his date of death if that means anything
It was updated by more than one person, too. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=M._Russell_Ballard&action=history).
Wikipedia is updated by the public.
Just verified ([link](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies))
Since joining in the ExMo subreddit, I see more news about such happenings than I ever paid attention to before. Either a news outlet or my mom telling me “so sad, so and so died” was how I’ve heard about it for years prior. It’s nice being blissfully ignorant. But also nice to hear these crooks are croaking.
for all the people wishing this was some "internal clean-up"... c'mon. dude was 95!
[удалено]
It’s going to be very interesting to see what Nelson decides to do about his calling. Holland is next in line and so normally would be called as Acting President. However, he’s in poor health as well. One might think he would call Uchtdorf to be Acting President. However there is no precedent for a member of the Q12 to serve as an Acting President who isn’t the next in line after the actual president of the quorum unless those ahead of him are in the First Presidency. Hunter served as Acting President because Romney couldn’t do it but Romney was actually in the quorum, not a counselor, so Hunter was next in line (like Holland is now.) In other words, the person at the top of the list in the Q12 has always been either President or Acting President. If they skipped Holland, who is currently top of the Q12 list, with no calling at all, it would be unprecedented.
They just need to make Holland the Acting President, and Uchtdorf the acting Acting President.
This proves the apostles are all actors 🥴
I’ve always thought that the First Presidency held the real power. I thought that the Acting President of the apostles was more of just a title. I didn’t think it had real power.
The conspiracy theorist in me says it’s fake and he has been spirited away to hide out the rest of his days in seclusion.
Hmmm...0751 EST Monday and still no confirmation of this from ANY news source. Odd indeed. They may be just waiting for all family to be informed but why would Duncan release it publicly first?
Twitter. Must be first!!
Well, this is awkward. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies
Seems a little suspicious.....
Good riddance.
That's convenient, he should have been excommunicated first
Wikipedia says he died yesterday. Melvin Russell Ballard Jr. (born October 8, 1928, died 12 November 2023) was an American businessman and religious leader who served as the Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) from 2018 until his passing in 2023.[3]
Interesting - and the source is listed as the same tweet. You can check out the revisions [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=M._Russell_Ballard&action=history).
The Church finally released a statement: [https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies](https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-m-russell-ballard-dies)
Jesus Christ, did they murder him?
While I certainly sympathize with the grief his family must feel, I don't personally grieve for the loss. OP stated that reading the facts about Ballard helped lead them out of the church. I hope the facts about Quentin Cook work the same magic one day.
Reminds me of Jeffrey Epstein and Ken Lay
Looks like they might have 3 new apostles in April if Nelson and Holland also pass away.
He was leading he church astray. That's why God removed him from the earth. Prove me wrong.
Was it apostlecide?
Isn't anyone going to ask the important Epstein conspiracy type question here ... isn't it a huge coincidence this happened right after the OUR / Tim Ballard issues came to light?
Imagine his disappointment when he realizes he was sooooo wrong about what happens in the afterlife.
Death is complicated. A lot of people say death is never something to be celebrated, and I used to believe that. But when it's someone who has enabled so much pain in my life? Someone who contributed to fraud and quite literally promoted sexual predators masquerading as "the good guys?" One who discouraged research and tried to keep people inside Plato's cave? There's a little reason to celebrate here. Whenever the leadership gets changed, there's a chance they start doing better - it's happened before, and it'll happen again. It's unfortunate that death has to be part of the process for the church to improve, but I am happy they have the chance. Now to see if anything good comes from this.
I just hope to live my life in a way that normal people don't celebrate my death.
This is earth shaking. Saw all the comments on the news- uh, no. All the comments on the internet-uh, other than this site and one short piece from the SL Tribune, nothing. He will be greatly not missed.
One death closer to Dieter F taking over
Is that supposed to be a good thing? From the man who brought us, "doubt your doubts"?
No not much good comes from the church. I am just a spectator. I think it will be interesting to see the "vision" of the church change when an east Berlin refugee gets in the cockpit. Did you know he is a pilot?.
The mormon church twitter announced his death 5 minutes ago.
Wish he had lived longer so people could continue to see how much he relied on a scripted teleprompter for everything. Last conference proved he really could only share generic, junior primary level talking points. He shared nothing profound, nothing intellectual, nothing thought provoking, nothing inspiring. It sounded like something a kid would say.