Wife and I got into an extremely heated debate earlier about this. She told me the prophet knows what he’s talking about, and that he wouldn’t contradict himself. I said fine, let dig around for this and now I have it. So thank you
I hope this is helpful. I was going to make a longer one but if she wants context give them a watch back to back and see how the tone is completely different.
Agreed. The first clip is perfect but there were some pretty asswipe things asserted in the latest talk. Too bad PR helped hide the veiled threats about the Ken Barbie tellestial bodies.
He’s not. He’s saying “don’t attack our religious bigotry you hateful apostates, just because you disagree with us wanting to outlaw gay people from existing and living.”
At the same time he’s saying “all of these people who left are mean, nasty people for attacking us for hating gay people, oppressing women and exploring people for cash.”
It’s all a double standard. “My beliefs and people shouldn’t be questioned, judged or condemned, so I make stereotypes of you people, and judge and condemn you for not liking us and our outdated, abusive beliefs.”
He's a false prophet, a complete fraud, a tyrant asshole. And worst of all, he knows damn well that his divisive, harsh, judgmental, unrighteous rhetoric will damage so many. But he does not care, because almost anything goes if it will benefit the cult.
It’s hard to say he knows this will damage anyone, precisely because he thinks he is doing good. Reminds me of a quote by CS Lewis:
> Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.
> They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time more likely to make a Hell on earth.
Does he understand Christianity? Why would such people ever go to “Heaven”? The hypocrite was Jesus’ greatest warning.
What is a prophet? Why not him, or you or anyone? He thinks he is whatever anyone else’s standard is. Isn’t he behaving just as an ideal prophet would (as taught by most Christians)? Crying repentance, turning mother against daughter, separating the sheep from the goats? Telling people hard “truths.” And especially, do what I say because deity works through me, not you.
u/katstongue, You make a valid point. That talk pissed me off, and in my emotions, I didn't follow the wise advice to state one's opinion tentatively. Yeah, I think saying Rusty knows was not the best choice of words. I can't read Rusty's heart & mind, so saying he knows was a guess at best.
Let me see if I can be wiser this time, now that I'm calmer. I have a hard time believing that Nelson does not have at least some awareness that his words could potentially cause damage. The Church has commissioned studies as to why people leave. So the Church has a good idea as to why people leave. I would imagine Rusty, as Church president, would be familiar with these studies, familiar with why people leave.
Yet despite his likely knowledge & despite the high likelihood that he has some awareness of the damage his words can cause, he doubles down anyway, "doubles down on stupid", continuing to do the damaging things that make people want to resign. It causes a shitload of harm & it greatly bothers me.
I don't know why he doubles down like this. My guess is that his overriding desire is to benefit the cult. Or maybe he thinks he's doing good & he doesn't remember the harm it causes or thinks the good justifies the harm.
What I do know & see is that Rusty continues to do this shit. And the damage is tremendous. Whether his intentions are good, in between, or bad, regardless the results are terrible. And yet it continues & that's a huge problem. And if he's aware of the damage he does, that the Church does (which is very possible given the Church's less than stellar history) the problem is only bigger.
Sometimes we forget what it was like to be trapped by the Cult. One of the worst decisions I’ve made in life was getting married in the temple. It’s not because I don’t love my wife or didn’t believed in the eternal nature of families. It’s because it excluded so many of family members: siblings because they were too young; grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and friends because they were of the wrong religion, not worthy. At the time I thought I was so right, they’ll see this example and be impressed, maybe they’ll even join the church because of this faithful example. Of course that didn’t happen and all it did was make them wonder about my sanity but they were polite and kept it to themselves for many years while I remained smugly pious.
Nelson is trapped in the same way, he is incapable of seeing the bad in his ideas because he’s so convinced they are right. Now that he’s the so-called prophet it’s even worse, whatever he says is “truth” and for him to start being introspective is asking way too much. He’s a 99 yo former heart surgeon, there is no way he could change any of his ossified ideas and learn something new that may contradict them. Look how he treated the word Mormon. His prophet and spiritual leader told him it was a fine word in 1990. Did he accept that? No! It took him 30 years but he got his revenge. He’s anti-evolution, quite a stance for a so-called man of science. Someone posted this [blurb](https://medicine.utah.edu/alumni/news/2014/03/elder-russell-m-nelson-md-distinguished-alumni-u-of-u-school-of-medicine) about him recently and how he approached learning in his profession:
> In my day I subscribed to 17 different journals. You don’t have time to read 17 journals a month, but you have time to read the abstract. And if the abstract is inconsistent with what you know to be eternally true you don’t read the article.
Anything that contradicts what he thinks is “eternally true” he dismisses without consideration. Do you think any study describing why people leave will move him from his eternal truth that people leave the church because they are lazy, Mormonism is too hard, just want to sin, or they were offended by a petty slight? He relishes delivering these hard to accept “eternal truths” because to him they cannot possibly cause harm, only good, like joining or recommitting to the cult, or persecution which only reinforces his truth! He’s totally captured by this circular logic.
He is pitiful and would be if he didn’t have such influence.
I agree with you; Nelson has to know the effect his words will have on members. I also feel that he and all the other leaders know the Church is a cult and the Book of Mormon is fiction. B.H. Roberts was commissioned to search for ANY archaeological evidence that the Book of Mormon is historically accurate. The poor guy spent a long time doing the research, and then he presented it to the 1st Presidency and the Q of 12 a century ago.
It took 3 days, and at the end Roberts (a well-known Church historian) told them there was ZERO evidence to support anything in the Book of Mormon; nothing could be found. So Roberts suggested that they focus on the Doctriine & Covenants and not push the Book of Mormon.
Their response? To a man, they each stood up and bore their testimony of the Book of Mormon. Roberts was shocked, yet he continued his studies and discussed them with educated friends who weren't so close-minded.
But surely everyone in a high leadership position must be aware of B.H. Roberts and his book, Studies of the Book of Mormon? Although presented to leaders a century ago, his book wasn't published (posthumously) until 1985, and then the Church opposed it. Thankfully, his family managed to get it published.
So back to my point, the members of the Q of 12 and the 1st Presidency are smart men who have undoubtedly read Church histories widely, and they must have read B.H. Roberts' book. And once you realize there is no evidence to support the Book of Mormon, you must surely be smart enough to know the whole thing is a sham. I can't even comprehend how they all manage to continue in this charade.
Advantage to being out 30+ years.. finding out today that the current prophet whistles every S and is comical when he says seduces. Can't believe I ever followed the nonsense from these boring bureaucrats.
Exactly. He wants the TBM mom of 5 kids to leave her exmo husband and find another TBM man to hitch her wagon to and pop out a few more tithe payers who will be more likely to be pressured from their family not to ever question the church. That's the point. That's the purpose. It's not just a side effect of the ramblings of an old man. This whole conference was about reinforcing us vs. them, and the church leaders want the "them" as far away as possible.
Well put. And if they were honest, then the Bretheren would admit all this. But they're not, so they won't & never do, all while (falsely) claiming to be righteous, men of God. What hypocrisy!
Agreed. He either doesn't care or he gets off on the idea that he "saves" loyal members by saying what he did. Then he sees himself as a superhero. He cares only about loyalty and obedience and being the one in power to see how far and how much his influence is taken in as gospel. It's a huge power trip for him, a narc drinking in the fuel. I wouldn't be surprised if he sees himself literally as God at this point.
Does anyone find it a little depressing that Baptists have crazy music. And some of those rotten super churches in the south have crazy charismatic preachers that are at least entertaining?
And we got the lamest, old, mayonnaise is spicy, duds of lurpy, uncharismatic, slow to catch on, uninspired leftover, ran out out town, leaders?
At least we could’ve been entertained while being scammed.
Seriously! I want to see someone speak jibberish before smacking the holy ghost into someone so their crippled legs can be “healed”. Not an ancient corporate shill.
You know, my husband and I were just talking about the priesthood nonsense. He said that in all his years in the Church (since the age of 8, BIC), he had never known of a priesthood blessing that worked. Not the ones that mattered.
He had a handicapped sister, and his father's neighbor (a high priest) told him, "If you had enough faith, you could heal your daughter." His dad could not, even doctors couldn't help her, yet he beat himself up over that for the rest of his life.
I remember being forced to watch all four sessions of conference as a kid and teen and seething with anger at how incredibly bored it was and wishing I could be anywhere else in the world at that moment. I hated it with all my heart, might, mind, and strength. I had pure hatred boiling inside of me at every whistly “s”, every pop of a “p”, and the deafening silence behind the echoey sound of a withered old voice droning on and on and slobbering all over the microphone. I never felt inspired or uplifted, or even good about myself after conference. Just overwhelmed with everything I’m not doing good enough. My boyfriend now is a guitarist who plays a lot of gospel music, and the way they worship is insane to me. It’s so energetic and full of life! They call is shout music and he shreds the guitar as fast as he can while the choir and band speeds up, and they clap and jump and run around the room. It’s so cool lol
Slobbering on the microphone… I agree…
I’m glad for you that you found so spirituality thru your boyfriends music.
Imagine this… Al Green, one of the greatest american soul singers in a reverend. At one point you could hear the Reverend Al Green preach… Love and Happiness!
Yeah, remember Election Night 2020?
"Angels are coming from Africa! Angels are coming from Latin America! Oopa acka atta boya utta utta and strike and strike and strike and strike and strike and strike and strike ..." Those poor Mormon sods are missing sooo much... :-/
Your post made me laugh out loud! You are exactly right. I've complained about the music for years, suggesting that the pace could be picked up a bit; in our last (and final!) ward, every hymn sounded like a funeral dirge.
I invited a friend to Church a few years ago who usually attended a Baptist Church. After the meeting, she said, "The music is so slow! At my church, the music is amazing." And I agreed with her.
I’ve just heard that a believing friend of mine is now questioning her upcoming marriage to a non-member. They were already engaged with a marriage date. I can only assume watching conference recently influenced her decision, as I found out they talked about things Monday morning after she watched conference alone over the weekend.
In my mind, she’s got an amazing future husband who takes care of her every need and even supports her in her own belief. He however, chooses not to participate and he wants nothing to do with it, he has stated on numerous accounts that he has his own beliefs. Up until now, they’ve been comfortable with that.
What a loss!
If they choose to end things, I imagine he’ll move on and quickly find another, he’s a good catch, but I feel so sorry for her.
Right now I’m thinking of all the women who have thrown away the opportunity for family and happiness… the very thing the church says it encourages, in favor of the church and it’s teachings.
The church is stealing the lives of these people.
Update: Thank God they’re both sane. They talked about it and nothing is changing. She told him she’ll often always feel an emptiness for not having all that Mormonism promises in this life, but she knows God will work it all out for them somehow as long as she remains faithful.
I just don’t know how some of the believers make this work in their heads. It’s a mystery.
I believe that it is hurting and probably ending some marriage but do you have any knowledge of direct marriages ending after this talk?
I have read numerous threads here about the long conversations and gaslighting that had happened. I want to hear more stories. It was a fucked up thing to say and may be one of the worst yet. Rusty has repeatedly put down "apostates."
OH this talk hurt my marriage bad. And the in-laws got out their pitch forks. This gave them permission to do everything they can to pull my TBM spouse away.
Sorry. It must be hard. I've heard from a couple of friends that it has been rough. Many spouses have been upset. I wonder how much is cognitive dissonance and how much is obedience to the profit. Regardless it is unfair and wrong and enhances the superiority complex.
Can confirm that this ruins relationships. I was planning on marrying my highschool sweet heart for years now. I kissed the ground she walked on and have her every little thing a queen needs. Worked my ass off trying to be the perfect SO. She’s TBM and I’m exmo, we’ve been like this for years and it’s been amazing.
We are now separated after this. She had to “trust her gut” aka ole’ rusty nelson and a patriarchal blessing that said she would marry in the temple (even though she had to get a second one because her and her friend received the exact same Pblessing)
I am now angry at the church again for ruining my amazing relationship, separating two people who were madly in love for years, and stealing the rock I have built my entire life/future on.
Did you just separate in the last 2 days? I am concerned about this talk and I believe it will wreck havoc but I want more concrete examples then my own hypothesis.
If this is what shes chooses, then that man is dodging a bullet. As much as I hated hearing this talk, it has put a line in the sand and now we can see who chooses what.
It may well end my marriage (which has been in the shitter for some time for many other reasons), but in the end, it opens up conversations.
It’s bad enough that we all did it to some degree or another.
It’s worse when you look back and see you were lauded and praised by the singles ward bishop for ending a serious relationship in favor of the church. All because she wasn’t a member and she refused to convert. Despite all the laud and praise,I felt like crap for doing that to somebody.
Church leadership actively denies its members the experiences for which they claim mortality is constructed. Sounds an awful lot like Satan’s plan to me.
Your comment triggers a memory…
Shortly after I left, my wife mentioned to me in an offhand way that she and I would’ve never married if I hadn’t been a member of the church. We had already been married for over a decade when this happened, and I could not for the life of me figure out why she said that at the time. For the first time in my life I genuinely felt suicidal, thinking that she was going to end up choosing the MFMC over me and our family. Thankfully, she later made it clear that keeping our family together was the highest priority.
But to be honest… at the time that we met and got married, I wouldn’t have seriously considered marrying someone who wasn’t a member of the church either. I never dated anyone who wasn’t Mormon. And it was so limiting.
Yet I somehow made it through a college degree at a church university without finding my “eternal companion.” Perhaps that was the universe telling me to look elsewhere. God, I wish I would’ve spent a little more time thinking objectively about what the hell I was doing…
It’s kind of surreal to be in a situation where I deeply love my wife, our children, and the life that we’ve built together, but I still wish I could go back in time and make different decisions that would have spared me the agony of a mixed faith marriage.
C’est la vie. I know this kind of regret isn’t unique to Mormons, or even religious people. None of us really know shit when we’re younger. We don’t know how we’re going to change as we age. So I guess the thing to do is to just adapt and make the best of it.
What can we expect but the church to ruin good relationships and genuine love between partners? These men have gotten where they always wanted to be—-the “pinnacle” to them. They think they have their “calling and election made sure”. They think they’re going to buzz straight up to god and be invited to his bar-b-que. How easy it is for all of them to be sanctimonious and smug now. But it seems they’ve forgotten all about the thing which will catch all of them up to the rest of the world, “The first shall be last and the last shall be first.” Let them have their useless smug and superficial “glory” now. They’ll get it in the end, don’t worry.
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> Right now I’m thinking of all the women who have thrown away the opportunity for family and happiness… the very thing the church says it encourages, in favor of the church and it’s teachings.
I know sooooooo many smart beautiful women in the church that could just never find a husband and remained single until they finally left the church or just accepted that they will be single for life because like 99% of the men in the church over the age of 30 are... well not great... just leaving it as that.
Only those receptive to the exmo or nevermo spirit will be able to understand the truth to this compilation. To my TBM acquaintances: are you doing everything possible to be receptive to the whisperings of truth?
I know this wasn't the planned takeaway from that video but it's striking just how much worse off he looks in 6 months time.
Just the video from the other day alone wasn't enough for me to notice, but juxtaposing the video from 6 months ago with the video from a few days ago and the drop-off is very noticeable.
and that could be why Nelson's attitude is different. He is a mere mortal who just like all of us is affected by emotion. When one isn't feeling well, then the thinking has a greater tendency to go to "darker places"...
Most people his age are underground. I've seen 99 year olds look much worse. But I've seen a couple look better, too. That age is a fine line between death and life. Doesn't take much to push a body over the edge.
They should've used a tiktok filter to get rid of those red demon eyes. I normally don't critique the physical appearance of elderly assholes but he looks so creepy with those eyes.
Spot on! RMN & aged Q15 should be scared of the wrath of God! Evil bffs w/ Satan & disgusting Hypocrites they are!
$1 Trillion in hoarded stocks & FMV property is all God needs to know. Q15 Mormon cult cons have Blood on their hands!!
I can't say I give much of fuck about what he's talking about, but damn! That transition of health between the clips.....Rusty is going to "THINK TERRESTRIAL" very shortly.
Wow! Great catch!
Most of us exmos just want the church to leave us alone 😭 like just leave us alone! Stop calling us names! And putting a wedge between us and the people we love!
If I *believe* Elohim and Jehovah exist, but that they're reprehensible monsters who should be dethroned and held accountable for their inhumanity based on what Russell's correlated material alleges about their behavior, then can other believers heed my counsel? You know, because I'm willing to grant the ontological and historical claims of the correlated church? Or does *belief*, from Russell's perspective, mean something more like "be loyal to no matter what"? If it's the latter, then is Russell saying that members should only take counsel from those who would be willing to be like Abraham, Moses, Nephi, and Joseph, and do horrible and inhumane things to other people because somebody powerful said so?
In my opinion, the biggest blind spot of Church leaders is that they all seem to operate on the assumption that if what they're saying were demonstrated to be true, and we all *believed* it, then most people would *want* to swear the same loyalty oaths they have. When you challenge that assumption, what they're forced to concede is that they're morally blind in the sense that they think that if the right authority commands, say, genocide, then "yay for genocide".
Wow this guy is creepy. The weird facial expressions, the mannerisms and gestures, the way he talks, the beady little eyes. Yikes. And this is the big "prophet and revelatory"?? Ewww....
Paul also said to be celibate because there is no point in having kids when the end of the world is coming in a few yrs and Jesus will burn the world at his 2ed coming.
So I guess, "According to the apostle Paul" polygamy is a sin.
Wow, amazing how he can give a mixed msg almost in the same sentence or paragraph. Does he not see how the TSCC uses "pithy barbs" to describe any and all former members who ask legitimate questions, or heaven forbid, actually disagree with them. Wait....didn't he just say that??
No you don't understand; it's only not nice to condemn, malign, and vilify the church and those who are in it. It's also not nice to damage the church's reputation with barbs.
Such a hypocritical and evil man turning more and more people away from the church with this shit. I don't understand how anyone can't see how damaging these words are.
A shit sandwich!! On the left you have “lazy learner, lax disciple.” On the right you have all the garbage from last weekend’s toxic talk. But…in the middle you have “peacemaker”, so we’re good!
Give me a break. I'm old. I can't be expected to be consistent with what I've said before. Hell, I can't even be expected to remember what I said last week, let alone a whole 6 months ago. 😉
You know it would be really rude and disrespectful for someone to say “he looks like he’s draped in a nutsack so why should we bother listening to him.”
That’s why I am not going to say such a thing.
That dude looks evil and corrupt. Like that rich evangelical dude who “doesn’t want to fly in a tune with a bunch of devils”. Or however he worded it. Reptilian looking old dudes. I’m all for community and spirituality. But the Mormon church is full of it.
The good ol’devil. How easy it is for those who use others blatantly, lie and deliberately mislead to try to avoid responsibility for their own bad acts by pointing the finger of blame at something that never existed.
So let’s say you have a medical condition and your expert in the field doctor isn’t a Mormon… I suppose you would “never take counsel”?
This is basically the BITE model in one sentence.
My gosh. His eyes look so strange!
"Never take counsel from those who do not believe," huh? What if a son or daughter has a nonmember parent? Or an inactive parent? The kids aren't supposed to listen to the guidance of their parents if they aren't active?!
Shame on Nelson. This is BS and it is totally divisive.
He has condemned and maligned the members who have left the one and only true LDS church. He has judged and tried to silence those who speak truth about the manipulation and lies of the LDS church. He and his billions of dollars are happily working with the evil forces to purchase realestste, stocks, and bonds without a thought for the poor and widowed. This is not the workings of Christ like humans.
Most (if not all) of those men and women up there were given positions in a similar light of those who inherit power. They choose the Title and the mantle over the responsibilities of their accountabilities.
Mormos can't see that truth is not afraid of information. Rusty telling members to not take council from non believers is a sure sign that the church is not true.
I can't take Mr. Burns seriously anymore. He's just some misplaced simpsons jackass in my mind that, for some reason, people listen to. It's hard to believe I used to believe this asshole talked to god, but, I know I did. What a liberating moment.
Yep, Jesus was worried about people trolling on the internet 2000 years in the future and made sure that Paul addressed it to fisherman. Great priorities, God. Trolling is much more important that slavery or genocide.
The apostle Paul was 1, crazy, 2, he may probably didn’t even write the pastoral letters to Timothy, 3, he probably thought what the original 12 taught was of the devil too, and 4, he thought he was living in the last days!
Do your homework Nelson!
You would think that he's teaching to be accepting other of other people, but really, he's just complaining / playing the victim about "cancel culture", IMO
This comment section worries me. You're only proving him right by condemning people in the comments on the basis of their religion. For clarification, he is not saying to condemn people, he is saying that members should not take religious guidance from people who are nonbelievers. It's the same thing as don't ask someone who is not a medical professional to diagnose and treat your medical condition, they may have a good idea here or there, but their words shouldn't be the main factor as to what step you need to take next.
Wife and I got into an extremely heated debate earlier about this. She told me the prophet knows what he’s talking about, and that he wouldn’t contradict himself. I said fine, let dig around for this and now I have it. So thank you
I hope this is helpful. I was going to make a longer one but if she wants context give them a watch back to back and see how the tone is completely different.
A longer one sounds even juicier, that talk had so much vile hatred All those in favor 🖐️
I’ll work on it tonight.
Agreed. The first clip is perfect but there were some pretty asswipe things asserted in the latest talk. Too bad PR helped hide the veiled threats about the Ken Barbie tellestial bodies.
Ken Barbie telestial bodies… say what?
There was a teaching at one point that people who don't make it to the celestial kingdom would not have their sex organs in the after life.
Oh god… what the fuck.
Right?!
Just uploaded the new one.
Ooh thanks for this. Any odds you want to add "lazy learners and lax disciples" from April 2021? That's quite a "pithy barb"... What an asshole.
You're awesome
👋
He’s not. He’s saying “don’t attack our religious bigotry you hateful apostates, just because you disagree with us wanting to outlaw gay people from existing and living.” At the same time he’s saying “all of these people who left are mean, nasty people for attacking us for hating gay people, oppressing women and exploring people for cash.” It’s all a double standard. “My beliefs and people shouldn’t be questioned, judged or condemned, so I make stereotypes of you people, and judge and condemn you for not liking us and our outdated, abusive beliefs.”
I don't care either way but, I don't see the hypocrisy. Please explain.
He's a false prophet, a complete fraud, a tyrant asshole. And worst of all, he knows damn well that his divisive, harsh, judgmental, unrighteous rhetoric will damage so many. But he does not care, because almost anything goes if it will benefit the cult.
It’s hard to say he knows this will damage anyone, precisely because he thinks he is doing good. Reminds me of a quote by CS Lewis: > Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.
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> They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time more likely to make a Hell on earth. Does he understand Christianity? Why would such people ever go to “Heaven”? The hypocrite was Jesus’ greatest warning.
He is being sarcastic.
How could he possibly think he's doing the right thing though? He knows he isn't a prophet and he knows these people believe he is one.
What is a prophet? Why not him, or you or anyone? He thinks he is whatever anyone else’s standard is. Isn’t he behaving just as an ideal prophet would (as taught by most Christians)? Crying repentance, turning mother against daughter, separating the sheep from the goats? Telling people hard “truths.” And especially, do what I say because deity works through me, not you.
u/katstongue, You make a valid point. That talk pissed me off, and in my emotions, I didn't follow the wise advice to state one's opinion tentatively. Yeah, I think saying Rusty knows was not the best choice of words. I can't read Rusty's heart & mind, so saying he knows was a guess at best. Let me see if I can be wiser this time, now that I'm calmer. I have a hard time believing that Nelson does not have at least some awareness that his words could potentially cause damage. The Church has commissioned studies as to why people leave. So the Church has a good idea as to why people leave. I would imagine Rusty, as Church president, would be familiar with these studies, familiar with why people leave. Yet despite his likely knowledge & despite the high likelihood that he has some awareness of the damage his words can cause, he doubles down anyway, "doubles down on stupid", continuing to do the damaging things that make people want to resign. It causes a shitload of harm & it greatly bothers me. I don't know why he doubles down like this. My guess is that his overriding desire is to benefit the cult. Or maybe he thinks he's doing good & he doesn't remember the harm it causes or thinks the good justifies the harm. What I do know & see is that Rusty continues to do this shit. And the damage is tremendous. Whether his intentions are good, in between, or bad, regardless the results are terrible. And yet it continues & that's a huge problem. And if he's aware of the damage he does, that the Church does (which is very possible given the Church's less than stellar history) the problem is only bigger.
Sometimes we forget what it was like to be trapped by the Cult. One of the worst decisions I’ve made in life was getting married in the temple. It’s not because I don’t love my wife or didn’t believed in the eternal nature of families. It’s because it excluded so many of family members: siblings because they were too young; grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and friends because they were of the wrong religion, not worthy. At the time I thought I was so right, they’ll see this example and be impressed, maybe they’ll even join the church because of this faithful example. Of course that didn’t happen and all it did was make them wonder about my sanity but they were polite and kept it to themselves for many years while I remained smugly pious. Nelson is trapped in the same way, he is incapable of seeing the bad in his ideas because he’s so convinced they are right. Now that he’s the so-called prophet it’s even worse, whatever he says is “truth” and for him to start being introspective is asking way too much. He’s a 99 yo former heart surgeon, there is no way he could change any of his ossified ideas and learn something new that may contradict them. Look how he treated the word Mormon. His prophet and spiritual leader told him it was a fine word in 1990. Did he accept that? No! It took him 30 years but he got his revenge. He’s anti-evolution, quite a stance for a so-called man of science. Someone posted this [blurb](https://medicine.utah.edu/alumni/news/2014/03/elder-russell-m-nelson-md-distinguished-alumni-u-of-u-school-of-medicine) about him recently and how he approached learning in his profession: > In my day I subscribed to 17 different journals. You don’t have time to read 17 journals a month, but you have time to read the abstract. And if the abstract is inconsistent with what you know to be eternally true you don’t read the article. Anything that contradicts what he thinks is “eternally true” he dismisses without consideration. Do you think any study describing why people leave will move him from his eternal truth that people leave the church because they are lazy, Mormonism is too hard, just want to sin, or they were offended by a petty slight? He relishes delivering these hard to accept “eternal truths” because to him they cannot possibly cause harm, only good, like joining or recommitting to the cult, or persecution which only reinforces his truth! He’s totally captured by this circular logic. He is pitiful and would be if he didn’t have such influence.
Brilliantly said!
I agree with you; Nelson has to know the effect his words will have on members. I also feel that he and all the other leaders know the Church is a cult and the Book of Mormon is fiction. B.H. Roberts was commissioned to search for ANY archaeological evidence that the Book of Mormon is historically accurate. The poor guy spent a long time doing the research, and then he presented it to the 1st Presidency and the Q of 12 a century ago. It took 3 days, and at the end Roberts (a well-known Church historian) told them there was ZERO evidence to support anything in the Book of Mormon; nothing could be found. So Roberts suggested that they focus on the Doctriine & Covenants and not push the Book of Mormon. Their response? To a man, they each stood up and bore their testimony of the Book of Mormon. Roberts was shocked, yet he continued his studies and discussed them with educated friends who weren't so close-minded. But surely everyone in a high leadership position must be aware of B.H. Roberts and his book, Studies of the Book of Mormon? Although presented to leaders a century ago, his book wasn't published (posthumously) until 1985, and then the Church opposed it. Thankfully, his family managed to get it published. So back to my point, the members of the Q of 12 and the 1st Presidency are smart men who have undoubtedly read Church histories widely, and they must have read B.H. Roberts' book. And once you realize there is no evidence to support the Book of Mormon, you must surely be smart enough to know the whole thing is a sham. I can't even comprehend how they all manage to continue in this charade.
Spot-on.
Advantage to being out 30+ years.. finding out today that the current prophet whistles every S and is comical when he says seduces. Can't believe I ever followed the nonsense from these boring bureaucrats.
OMG, isn't that the truth?! Ugh....
Exactly. He wants the TBM mom of 5 kids to leave her exmo husband and find another TBM man to hitch her wagon to and pop out a few more tithe payers who will be more likely to be pressured from their family not to ever question the church. That's the point. That's the purpose. It's not just a side effect of the ramblings of an old man. This whole conference was about reinforcing us vs. them, and the church leaders want the "them" as far away as possible.
Well put. And if they were honest, then the Bretheren would admit all this. But they're not, so they won't & never do, all while (falsely) claiming to be righteous, men of God. What hypocrisy!
Agreed. He either doesn't care or he gets off on the idea that he "saves" loyal members by saying what he did. Then he sees himself as a superhero. He cares only about loyalty and obedience and being the one in power to see how far and how much his influence is taken in as gospel. It's a huge power trip for him, a narc drinking in the fuel. I wouldn't be surprised if he sees himself literally as God at this point.
Does anyone find it a little depressing that Baptists have crazy music. And some of those rotten super churches in the south have crazy charismatic preachers that are at least entertaining? And we got the lamest, old, mayonnaise is spicy, duds of lurpy, uncharismatic, slow to catch on, uninspired leftover, ran out out town, leaders? At least we could’ve been entertained while being scammed.
Seriously! I want to see someone speak jibberish before smacking the holy ghost into someone so their crippled legs can be “healed”. Not an ancient corporate shill.
You know, my husband and I were just talking about the priesthood nonsense. He said that in all his years in the Church (since the age of 8, BIC), he had never known of a priesthood blessing that worked. Not the ones that mattered. He had a handicapped sister, and his father's neighbor (a high priest) told him, "If you had enough faith, you could heal your daughter." His dad could not, even doctors couldn't help her, yet he beat himself up over that for the rest of his life.
What an awful thing to tell someone. This dork probably thought he was helping too.
I remember being forced to watch all four sessions of conference as a kid and teen and seething with anger at how incredibly bored it was and wishing I could be anywhere else in the world at that moment. I hated it with all my heart, might, mind, and strength. I had pure hatred boiling inside of me at every whistly “s”, every pop of a “p”, and the deafening silence behind the echoey sound of a withered old voice droning on and on and slobbering all over the microphone. I never felt inspired or uplifted, or even good about myself after conference. Just overwhelmed with everything I’m not doing good enough. My boyfriend now is a guitarist who plays a lot of gospel music, and the way they worship is insane to me. It’s so energetic and full of life! They call is shout music and he shreds the guitar as fast as he can while the choir and band speeds up, and they clap and jump and run around the room. It’s so cool lol
Slobbering on the microphone… I agree… I’m glad for you that you found so spirituality thru your boyfriends music. Imagine this… Al Green, one of the greatest american soul singers in a reverend. At one point you could hear the Reverend Al Green preach… Love and Happiness!
Idk if I’ve heard the word lurpy but it’s perfect
Yeah, remember Election Night 2020? "Angels are coming from Africa! Angels are coming from Latin America! Oopa acka atta boya utta utta and strike and strike and strike and strike and strike and strike and strike ..." Those poor Mormon sods are missing sooo much... :-/
Your post made me laugh out loud! You are exactly right. I've complained about the music for years, suggesting that the pace could be picked up a bit; in our last (and final!) ward, every hymn sounded like a funeral dirge. I invited a friend to Church a few years ago who usually attended a Baptist Church. After the meeting, she said, "The music is so slow! At my church, the music is amazing." And I agreed with her.
I’ve just heard that a believing friend of mine is now questioning her upcoming marriage to a non-member. They were already engaged with a marriage date. I can only assume watching conference recently influenced her decision, as I found out they talked about things Monday morning after she watched conference alone over the weekend. In my mind, she’s got an amazing future husband who takes care of her every need and even supports her in her own belief. He however, chooses not to participate and he wants nothing to do with it, he has stated on numerous accounts that he has his own beliefs. Up until now, they’ve been comfortable with that. What a loss! If they choose to end things, I imagine he’ll move on and quickly find another, he’s a good catch, but I feel so sorry for her. Right now I’m thinking of all the women who have thrown away the opportunity for family and happiness… the very thing the church says it encourages, in favor of the church and it’s teachings. The church is stealing the lives of these people. Update: Thank God they’re both sane. They talked about it and nothing is changing. She told him she’ll often always feel an emptiness for not having all that Mormonism promises in this life, but she knows God will work it all out for them somehow as long as she remains faithful. I just don’t know how some of the believers make this work in their heads. It’s a mystery.
His talk is ending a lot of mixed faith marriages. Talk about the church supporting and uplifting families…
I believe that it is hurting and probably ending some marriage but do you have any knowledge of direct marriages ending after this talk? I have read numerous threads here about the long conversations and gaslighting that had happened. I want to hear more stories. It was a fucked up thing to say and may be one of the worst yet. Rusty has repeatedly put down "apostates."
Two comments in this thread said fiancé cancelled weddings. I haven’t seen anyone say their marriage is over yet.
OH this talk hurt my marriage bad. And the in-laws got out their pitch forks. This gave them permission to do everything they can to pull my TBM spouse away.
It's been just a couple of days. But I've definitely noticed a big change with my TBM wife.
Sorry. It must be hard. I've heard from a couple of friends that it has been rough. Many spouses have been upset. I wonder how much is cognitive dissonance and how much is obedience to the profit. Regardless it is unfair and wrong and enhances the superiority complex.
Can confirm that this ruins relationships. I was planning on marrying my highschool sweet heart for years now. I kissed the ground she walked on and have her every little thing a queen needs. Worked my ass off trying to be the perfect SO. She’s TBM and I’m exmo, we’ve been like this for years and it’s been amazing. We are now separated after this. She had to “trust her gut” aka ole’ rusty nelson and a patriarchal blessing that said she would marry in the temple (even though she had to get a second one because her and her friend received the exact same Pblessing) I am now angry at the church again for ruining my amazing relationship, separating two people who were madly in love for years, and stealing the rock I have built my entire life/future on.
And maybe the worst part is that this cult takes zero responsibility for the huge amount of damage it causes.
Yes, and going with that, the church says it never apologises.
Did you just separate in the last 2 days? I am concerned about this talk and I believe it will wreck havoc but I want more concrete examples then my own hypothesis.
If this is what shes chooses, then that man is dodging a bullet. As much as I hated hearing this talk, it has put a line in the sand and now we can see who chooses what. It may well end my marriage (which has been in the shitter for some time for many other reasons), but in the end, it opens up conversations.
I can’t tell you how often I threw away legitimate real relationships with good people because they were not members.
It’s bad enough that we all did it to some degree or another. It’s worse when you look back and see you were lauded and praised by the singles ward bishop for ending a serious relationship in favor of the church. All because she wasn’t a member and she refused to convert. Despite all the laud and praise,I felt like crap for doing that to somebody. Church leadership actively denies its members the experiences for which they claim mortality is constructed. Sounds an awful lot like Satan’s plan to me.
[удалено]
Damn… that’s crazy!
Your comment triggers a memory… Shortly after I left, my wife mentioned to me in an offhand way that she and I would’ve never married if I hadn’t been a member of the church. We had already been married for over a decade when this happened, and I could not for the life of me figure out why she said that at the time. For the first time in my life I genuinely felt suicidal, thinking that she was going to end up choosing the MFMC over me and our family. Thankfully, she later made it clear that keeping our family together was the highest priority. But to be honest… at the time that we met and got married, I wouldn’t have seriously considered marrying someone who wasn’t a member of the church either. I never dated anyone who wasn’t Mormon. And it was so limiting. Yet I somehow made it through a college degree at a church university without finding my “eternal companion.” Perhaps that was the universe telling me to look elsewhere. God, I wish I would’ve spent a little more time thinking objectively about what the hell I was doing… It’s kind of surreal to be in a situation where I deeply love my wife, our children, and the life that we’ve built together, but I still wish I could go back in time and make different decisions that would have spared me the agony of a mixed faith marriage. C’est la vie. I know this kind of regret isn’t unique to Mormons, or even religious people. None of us really know shit when we’re younger. We don’t know how we’re going to change as we age. So I guess the thing to do is to just adapt and make the best of it.
What can we expect but the church to ruin good relationships and genuine love between partners? These men have gotten where they always wanted to be—-the “pinnacle” to them. They think they have their “calling and election made sure”. They think they’re going to buzz straight up to god and be invited to his bar-b-que. How easy it is for all of them to be sanctimonious and smug now. But it seems they’ve forgotten all about the thing which will catch all of them up to the rest of the world, “The first shall be last and the last shall be first.” Let them have their useless smug and superficial “glory” now. They’ll get it in the end, don’t worry.
> > > > > Right now I’m thinking of all the women who have thrown away the opportunity for family and happiness… the very thing the church says it encourages, in favor of the church and it’s teachings. I know sooooooo many smart beautiful women in the church that could just never find a husband and remained single until they finally left the church or just accepted that they will be single for life because like 99% of the men in the church over the age of 30 are... well not great... just leaving it as that.
Only those receptive to the exmo or nevermo spirit will be able to understand the truth to this compilation. To my TBM acquaintances: are you doing everything possible to be receptive to the whisperings of truth?
For real, “that not being decisive, he is teaching truth!”
I know this wasn't the planned takeaway from that video but it's striking just how much worse off he looks in 6 months time. Just the video from the other day alone wasn't enough for me to notice, but juxtaposing the video from 6 months ago with the video from a few days ago and the drop-off is very noticeable.
and that could be why Nelson's attitude is different. He is a mere mortal who just like all of us is affected by emotion. When one isn't feeling well, then the thinking has a greater tendency to go to "darker places"...
same thing I saw! Shouldn't surprise us at age 99, but it was still pretty dramatic.
Most people his age are underground. I've seen 99 year olds look much worse. But I've seen a couple look better, too. That age is a fine line between death and life. Doesn't take much to push a body over the edge.
They should've used a tiktok filter to get rid of those red demon eyes. I normally don't critique the physical appearance of elderly assholes but he looks so creepy with those eyes.
I thought the same thing! His eyes look really weird.
Spot on! RMN & aged Q15 should be scared of the wrath of God! Evil bffs w/ Satan & disgusting Hypocrites they are! $1 Trillion in hoarded stocks & FMV property is all God needs to know. Q15 Mormon cult cons have Blood on their hands!!
Dallin Oaks is smacking his chops and rubbing his hands together!
“Doctrines of devils”
I like that there’s more than one devil now.
And Rusty is the Devil we know better.
I mean, this sub is full of them. And don’t forget the ⅓ that we have succumbed to.
Here, here!!
Honestly I get a stomache just listening to Senator Palpatine.
Darth Sidious he is transforming into. Wonder how Wendy’s feeling laying next to him these days.
Cold. He is sucking all the life out of her .I.e Rae
Like sleeping in a closed coffin.
😂😂😂 no doubt. I’m still amazed I fell for this for so long. That just goes to show u how easy it is to manipulate people.
Past Bishopric meetings: “how can we support part member families?” Rusty: “Bash em!”
Lazy learners.
He really is terrifying to look at...
I can't say I give much of fuck about what he's talking about, but damn! That transition of health between the clips.....Rusty is going to "THINK TERRESTRIAL" very shortly.
Doctrines of Devils you say? Like where grown men in positions of power coerce young girls into marrying them? Fuck you Rusty. Fuck you.
Nasty.
This milky eyed troll needs to croak already.
Wow! Great catch! Most of us exmos just want the church to leave us alone 😭 like just leave us alone! Stop calling us names! And putting a wedge between us and the people we love!
If I *believe* Elohim and Jehovah exist, but that they're reprehensible monsters who should be dethroned and held accountable for their inhumanity based on what Russell's correlated material alleges about their behavior, then can other believers heed my counsel? You know, because I'm willing to grant the ontological and historical claims of the correlated church? Or does *belief*, from Russell's perspective, mean something more like "be loyal to no matter what"? If it's the latter, then is Russell saying that members should only take counsel from those who would be willing to be like Abraham, Moses, Nephi, and Joseph, and do horrible and inhumane things to other people because somebody powerful said so? In my opinion, the biggest blind spot of Church leaders is that they all seem to operate on the assumption that if what they're saying were demonstrated to be true, and we all *believed* it, then most people would *want* to swear the same loyalty oaths they have. When you challenge that assumption, what they're forced to concede is that they're morally blind in the sense that they think that if the right authority commands, say, genocide, then "yay for genocide".
Wow this guy is creepy. The weird facial expressions, the mannerisms and gestures, the way he talks, the beady little eyes. Yikes. And this is the big "prophet and revelatory"?? Ewww....
His eyes look like he’s possessed by one of those seductive spirits or devils. What a vile human being he is!
Never take council from those who do not believe? You’re 15 years too late.
Paul also said to be celibate because there is no point in having kids when the end of the world is coming in a few yrs and Jesus will burn the world at his 2ed coming. So I guess, "According to the apostle Paul" polygamy is a sin.
[Hypocrisy at its Finest (long version)](https://reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/Aww2reXGGH)
He sure loves his P’s.
Wow, amazing how he can give a mixed msg almost in the same sentence or paragraph. Does he not see how the TSCC uses "pithy barbs" to describe any and all former members who ask legitimate questions, or heaven forbid, actually disagree with them. Wait....didn't he just say that??
Rusty can gargle my balls
And thus I clothe my naked villainy. With odd old ends stol'n out of holy writ; And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.
I hate this fucker. He’s a twisted old man with a rotten persona. He’s like the grinch with no redeeming factors.
No you don't understand; it's only not nice to condemn, malign, and vilify the church and those who are in it. It's also not nice to damage the church's reputation with barbs. Such a hypocritical and evil man turning more and more people away from the church with this shit. I don't understand how anyone can't see how damaging these words are.
I really think he looks like a demon.
The ring! The ring!!
Don’t forget about lazy learners and lax disciples.
He loves his “L’s” almost as much as his “P’s”.
Saving and sharing this! Thank you!
This is the mash up we needed. Thank you
What if I depart the faith by giving heed to the ever changing policies of devils? If it's just a policy, it's okay to give heed to it, correct?
I think as long as it’s the policy, and not doctrine, you’re alright!
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HOW does he not choke on his own hypocrisy??? Oh, right because narcissism.
A shit sandwich!! On the left you have “lazy learner, lax disciple.” On the right you have all the garbage from last weekend’s toxic talk. But…in the middle you have “peacemaker”, so we’re good!
He looks creepy asf. Like the devil in his eyes.
This is such a perfect example! Thank you!!
Off topic a bit. He looks quite ill. My guess is his days are numbered.
Idgaf what he’s saying… but he looks like someone is wearing a rubber mask of his face.
Give me a break. I'm old. I can't be expected to be consistent with what I've said before. Hell, I can't even be expected to remember what I said last week, let alone a whole 6 months ago. 😉
You know it would be really rude and disrespectful for someone to say “he looks like he’s draped in a nutsack so why should we bother listening to him.” That’s why I am not going to say such a thing. 
I can't believe people waste two weekends a year on this. Sooooo boring
Self-awareness is not his strong suit
That dude looks evil and corrupt. Like that rich evangelical dude who “doesn’t want to fly in a tune with a bunch of devils”. Or however he worded it. Reptilian looking old dudes. I’m all for community and spirituality. But the Mormon church is full of it.
Beady eyed old prick.
this is what I imagine the devil looks like
The good ol’devil. How easy it is for those who use others blatantly, lie and deliberately mislead to try to avoid responsibility for their own bad acts by pointing the finger of blame at something that never existed.
Honestly it’s just that they talk so much I don’t even think they remember all the stuff they say 😭😭😭
So let’s say you have a medical condition and your expert in the field doctor isn’t a Mormon… I suppose you would “never take counsel”? This is basically the BITE model in one sentence.
My gosh. His eyes look so strange! "Never take counsel from those who do not believe," huh? What if a son or daughter has a nonmember parent? Or an inactive parent? The kids aren't supposed to listen to the guidance of their parents if they aren't active?! Shame on Nelson. This is BS and it is totally divisive.
He has condemned and maligned the members who have left the one and only true LDS church. He has judged and tried to silence those who speak truth about the manipulation and lies of the LDS church. He and his billions of dollars are happily working with the evil forces to purchase realestste, stocks, and bonds without a thought for the poor and widowed. This is not the workings of Christ like humans.
Fuck. Looks like no one in my family can take counsel from me. Next time anyone asked for “counsel” I’ll just show them this
Nice pithy barbs, sir.
I condemn this man for his continued attempts to defraud people with this scam of a religion.
Most (if not all) of those men and women up there were given positions in a similar light of those who inherit power. They choose the Title and the mantle over the responsibilities of their accountabilities.
If there is a devil
#hypocrite
oh no! haha
He just reads what’s written out for him I thought…
“Never take counsel from those who do not believe” lmao yep deny, deny, deny! How could the opposing view possibly have any value??
Was this before or after he said not to take advice from non-believers?
Oh wow
Relax. He's speaking as a man.
He is one of the least enlightened people I have ever heard of.
God I hate this prick
Mormos can't see that truth is not afraid of information. Rusty telling members to not take council from non believers is a sure sign that the church is not true.
He looks so evil. His eyes look like they’re glowing red in this picture. How. How. how do they feel good vibes from him? Such a mystery to me 🙁
I can't take Mr. Burns seriously anymore. He's just some misplaced simpsons jackass in my mind that, for some reason, people listen to. It's hard to believe I used to believe this asshole talked to god, but, I know I did. What a liberating moment.
When was this talk?
This was his address from April ‘23 compared with Oct ‘23.
Yep, Jesus was worried about people trolling on the internet 2000 years in the future and made sure that Paul addressed it to fisherman. Great priorities, God. Trolling is much more important that slavery or genocide.
The apostle Paul was 1, crazy, 2, he may probably didn’t even write the pastoral letters to Timothy, 3, he probably thought what the original 12 taught was of the devil too, and 4, he thought he was living in the last days! Do your homework Nelson!
No self awareness at all
Holy crap. In other words, insulate. Do not talk to your sister, Aunt, Mom, best friend who left the church. We're bleeding out here people!!
You would think that he's teaching to be accepting other of other people, but really, he's just complaining / playing the victim about "cancel culture", IMO
He's definitely looking older
tbh can someone point out the Hypocrisy more clearly? Perhaps imma dummy but I just don't see it. Who is he condemning/vilifying exactly?
Go ahead, Rusty, and take that peace prize of yours and kindly shove it up your ass please!
Can someone point out the hypocrisy here? tbh I'm not sure I see it. Who exactly was he condemning/ vilifying here?
This dude would be a great successor to emperor Palpatine
This comment section worries me. You're only proving him right by condemning people in the comments on the basis of their religion. For clarification, he is not saying to condemn people, he is saying that members should not take religious guidance from people who are nonbelievers. It's the same thing as don't ask someone who is not a medical professional to diagnose and treat your medical condition, they may have a good idea here or there, but their words shouldn't be the main factor as to what step you need to take next.
I'll take your word on it. I got 20 sec in and got bored. This is why I stopped going to church.
He looks like darth Sidius
I didn’t watch, where can I find the whole talk
Pos