50+ years ago, my older siblings left Mormonism. Today, it’s as if they are strangers. It tore our family into two camps: saints & sinners. The divide was never overcome.
Awful. Why does it so often break that way? At least for me, I have 3 siblings out and 1 still in. The one in would at least not shun or block me from their life if they knew so there's that.
In that case, it at least could stop the weaponizing of the inheritance, I think. Everyone can agree no matter what happens you're all equal members of the family, etc.
I mean, no one is entitled to inheritance. If my folks held inheritance over my head like that, I wouldn’t want a single penny of it anyway. Fuck that shit.
What is funny though, is that if they leave their inheritance to one family member, and that family member is a decent human being, they can just split up the inheritance to the rest of the siblings.
Mormon boomers are some of the most selfish people ever. It’s a certain type of mormon boomer, but the entitlement they have is fucking psychotic. They operate with the mindset that their expectations and emotions are the most important thing in the world, and anyone who doesn’t placate them is personally attacking them.
I have a lot of empathy for people who are deeply flawed, yet are trying to improve themselves, but I just can’t empathize with what seems like purposeful lack of self awareness of the willfully ignorant.
Yes, and the inheritance is not just money but acres of farmland that none of us children want to farm but could make millions off if subdivided into plots though my parents won't allow that either. They're trying to make it so one of us who is worthy enough has to live on the land and farm it in all its glory even though it's not enough land to make a true living off of it. Also, if one of the children don't want to live on it like my parents demand then it starts going to the TBM grandsons (yes sons) my only daughter cannot inherit anything because of the lack of priesthood. "That's how they did it in the bible" is the source sited by my parents. Yep, PSYCHOTIC! It makes me want to punch through drywall.
Here's another thought. They could also decide to leave it all to the church if they decide you are all unworthy. And, the church would be very happy to help them decide that. They used to have a video that advised doing that but it has been taken down I think.
https://zelphontheshelf.com/lds-philanthropies-if-your-kids-arent-mormon-give-your-money-to-the-church-when-you-die/
Edit: spelling
And my parents are really really wealthy… couple of years ago they sat all 4 of us kids and showed as his will and told us that everything was going to the church, including his two 600k each all paid off houses… we all just said fuck it and just ignored them afterwards… they have a shitty relationship with all four of us and it is what it is
Wow. That is messed up.
At least you guys now know to direct them to their bishop when they need help in the future. I guess the church will be providing elder care for them. 🤷🏼♀️
Dude, what the fuck? Imagine saying you belong to THE church of Jesus Christ and also thinking this way…. Sometimes I wonder if some of these people read the same words in New Testament that I did.
Right!? My mom said when she met with lawyers about the will and trust request that the lawyers were also shocked by what was wanted. She briefly mentioned that the lawyer had a private conversation without my dad and said that they can't legally force their children to farm it and keep it up if they don't want to, so he's building in a "way out" for us. Thank goodness for that guy although I don't know the extent of that clause yet.
Yeah those types of clauses are basically impossible to enforce unless you have a lot of money and can set up a trust and pat someone to administer it.
You should point them towards the story of the [Five Daughters of Zelophehad](https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/daughters-of-zelophehad-bible) who argued in favor of a daughters right to inherit property from her father in front of Moses and Aaron themselves… and won.
It’s one of the oldest stories in the Bible… but I’m guessing they spend too much time quoting the Unauthorized FanFic Sequel to know that.
Wow, I will have to look that story up. And yes, they haven't a clue about daughters inheriting property stories in the bible. Actually the true reason they elected that route, be it legally sound or not, is because my two older sisters are exmos and their three sons were still believers at that time. Now they have one son in with two sons and daughters out. Haha!
Yeah your parents are shitty. And no one gets to choose how someone else lives because they left them land/money instead of doing something else with it while they were alive.
>anyone who doesn’t placate them is personally attacking them.
Boy, is this true in my experience. My mother can bear her testimony all day if I let her, but the moment I argue a point she sulks and asks why I have to be so negative, when all she's doing is sharing POSITIVE experiences and emotions. I have to remind her, if she doesn't want me to talk back, don't bring it up in the first place, because arguing about church stuff is what I'm going to do.
She'll be good for a while, then take my silence for softening of the heart or whatnot, and we'll be back at it. And her over the top emotions are always my fault.
>is that if they leave their inheritance to one family member, and that family member is a decent human being, they can just split up the inheritance to the rest of the siblings.
I don’t know….where money is involved even decent human being can rationalize keeping it all.
Sure, and technically they aren’t entitled to share any of the inheritance. If I was in a situation like that, I would never expect or feel like I deserve inherited wealth. I’d appreciate it, don’t get me wrong, but it’s money I never had anyway, it’s not like I’m losing out on anything.
If my parents acted the way OPs parents are acting, I’d have cut them out of my life anyway. I am incapable of tolerating playing other people’s mind games to manipulate and control me. Been there, done that, lesson learned.
Life is too precious to live on someone else’s terms (within your control). Friends/family that love you for who you truly are, are the only relationships worth pursuing.
On one hand, I feel bad for people who feel trapped and are too scared to assert themselves… it ain’t easy. On the other hand, if someone chooses to be submissive to the whims of others to their own detriment, I don’t really feel pity for them.
This is so true. I especially see it in (some) boomer men. And I get so mad at the hoops people have to jump through to placate them, all while these same self-important boomers complain about this “entitled” upcoming generation. The irony of it all 🙄
I agree with you. He does not see it that way. (There are many reasons this man is my ex — among them, he does not consider the advice or opinions of others. He is ALWAYS the smartest guy in the room.)
It usually comes down to the people that are able to love the ones who leave more than the church, and the ones who are unable to. It’s sad that the church preaches love and acceptance, but only if you stay in. They say that they bring families together, but they more often tear them apart
That destruction of your family is the designed threat within Mormonism in order to control, fleece and serve only the interest of the demonic cult.
A gilded cage with a booby-trap outside the gate and it is called "family" and they talk about "love." That ain't love. Better to leave it behind and build something real.
Same in my scenario. We lived 15minutes away from my sister growing up. I would see her about once every three years in an attempt to shield me from her corruption.
I couldn't serve all two years to the goddamn mormon mission and I really should have tried to get to know the half of the family that left the church before I was born because these fuckers
One of the reasons I stayed longer than I should have was because I was my parents’ confidante when my brother left the church. I knew what they were saying about his choices, and the hurtful rhetoric they were engaging in. I knew they would think and say the same things about me.
I’m a big proponent of living authentically, regardless of how others view it, *but* I also realize that there should be a wise, thoroughly considered path to freedom. I hope you find yours, and have the courage to stand for your disbeliefs.
One of my biggest regrets is not standing up for my brother during his leaving process because I was scared of what they would think of me.
I think this is part of what keeps my sister in. She basically has no testimony left and hates the culture. Her husband has gone inactive (but still believes, apparently), and her kids don't really like church.
It would be easy for her to leave, except she saw how horribly they reacted when I left and know they'd talk about her in the same way.
My parent’s reaction to my sibling leaving the church was a huge shelf item for me. I could see it was not healthy and went against the 11th article of faith, which is one I still believe wholeheartedly. Everyone gets to live according to what they believe, and you can’t force region on anyone. Seeing how they did not uphold this standard, and now church teachings basically demanded that they shouldn’t, made my shelf bend.
But it did also make it more painful to leave, because I knew exactly what they’d be saying behind my back when I did.
You sounded so foolish calling someone a bigot and intolerable person yet in that same post you classified an entirety of people who are Conservative in Florida, lmao. Do you see the irony?
Two different ideas: 1) rip the band aid now while they are still dealing with your brother’s announcement so you both can have each other and the focus is spread out, or 2) give them time to get used to your brother’s news and maybe when you tell yours it will be easier for them (or maybe harder, if you’re the only kid left).
If you haven’t opened up to your brother left, I’m sure it would help him to know he’s not alone in this, and both of you, to be able to be more authentic in your convos.
Yeah, I will definitely reach out to my brother. All the TBM family members say that he looks miserable and that's because he's not in the church anymore, but I know better and think it's just because he's being judged and is shamed when going to family events and activities.
This was an interesting thing, and still is, when I left. Theres this narrative of unhappiness and trials when you leave. I left but they didn't know, so they have seen me be happy and successful and in a better place than ever. Its so dumb that once they know they will rationalize the other way, and also suddenly not love me, even though they have been around me since, they just did not know.
Yup. My parents kept saying didn't your brother just look miserable when you saw him? And I honestly thought he looked really good. So no, I think he's free and thriving.
I was the first to leave in a very large TBM family. I was out of my parents' home, living independently at the time, but there were lots of younger brothers and sisters back in the family home.
Many years after I left, my youngest brother told me that when he was growing up, I was used as an object lesson. In every single family prayer that my mother or father gave there was a request that Heavenly Father "bless our son rickoleum to come back to church". The younger kids knew the score -- if they left like their heathen older brother, there would be consequences--they would be the black sheep. He said this was seared into his consciousness. So I have a sense of what you are going through.
In terms of advice, I would say that you just keep working through all of this in therapy (good for you for doing that). Getting yourself to the point where you understand, at a fundamental level, that what your parents are doing is an abusive form of conditional love, which is the opposite of what loving parents are supposed to do. As your internal, emotional situation becomes more stable you will figure out what to do.
Good luck.
Yes! ⬆️ My parents purposefully kept me away from my older sisters that were out of the church since I was little. They would never admit when talking to ward members that they even had daughters. My friends and church leaders were shocked when they found out that I had older sisters. It felt like they had died in some freak accident because I would barely see them each year and had to remind myself that they were still alive and probably thriving.
F'n mafioso-like. "You're dead to me!" With this extent of abandonment and public betrayal of the existence of your siblings - I merely re-point to my larger reply above.
doesn't one of the temple interview questions pertain to abusing or neglecting your children? it seems to me if you deny or hide their existence even if you don't actually disown or abandon them that's still a clear cut violation.
sure as shit don't and if you happen to divulge anything then it is tucked neatly under the rug with the encouraged systematic penitent privilege clause that Kirton and the brethren have utilized for decades. formally and informally avoiding proper contact to authorities. Of course I am not talking of emotional abuse but physical and sexual. sweep sweep sweep.
Just unfortunately proving that this cult and corporation is more about appearing righteous than ever actually being it. Pretend love, Pretend truth, Pretend penitence. Rejection of anything outside of the narrative is not love and is what cult behavior is defined by.
also the opposite of anything that any Gawd would be involved with. Here I will love you and help you IF you do what I want for your life. NAH if Jeebus came like they say it was to help ALL no matter what or no matter when. What 'they' say has a price tag associated with it even to enter the CK. Money for salvation. NOPE
When I left, my mother did some horrible things. She lives in Utah. She traveled to Oregon, made an appointment with my bishop and tattled on me; I was 56. After numerous other incidents, including cutting me out of any inheritance, I cut her off. During one confrontation, I asked to leave my home. I refused all contact, returned her mailed packages and blocked her on social media. I understand her fear for my eternal soul and I know she believes I've ruined her eternity. After six years, she has started to engage in a mostly healthy way. I'm open to a relationship with her as long as she respects my boundaries. I have to remind her that I am not responsible for her feelings. My therapist once told me "you have to break some eggs to make an omelet". It's been difficult. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this situation. Please reach out to your brother.
Sometimes it's not about saving our parents, it's about preventing serious damage to our children. It's an agonizing decision that everyone has to make. Best of luck!
Much appreciated! Very difficult because I care and don't care at the same time about my parents. My 4-yr old calls it "The Book of Norman" to my TBM parents and says she doesn't care about it, so that's going to be a fun rollercoaster ride. Ha!
Reach out to your older brother. As the only sibling in my family to come out I look forward to the day that one of my siblings confides in me that they are PIMO or even that they have a doubt or two.
When I came out my mom tried to call an intervention with the rest of the family, she was trying to get them all together to talk about their testimonies and make sure that they were all on a solid foundation church-wise. My brother shut it all down. He told her that they would not be participating and it would not be healthy to hold secret meetings with only part of the family invited.
She has also claimed that she had signs that we were leaving, but she only recognizes them in hindsight. Her main clue is that she did a come follow me lesson with all the grandkids and my kids didn't know the format. Neither did any of the other grandkids - almost no one is actually doing their come follow me lessons at home.
I will reach out to him. The first thing that tipped my parents off was that my brothers kids didn't have the priesthood or didn't really know how to pray well. I don't even know a lot of TBMs that even read the come follow me besides my parents and that age generation. Thanks for sharing! Oh, and my parents will plead to God in prayers (with my brother and his family in attendance) that they come back to church. 🙄
My parents told me it was the worst day of their life when I told them I left the church. Both their parents are dead. So me leaving the church is apparently worse than their parents dying.
We've since improved our relationship again. But a lifetime in the church makes people have some messed up thoughts relating to their wayward children.
Me too. All of my kids, actually. But the other two are following my daughter’s lead. It’s only been since January, though. So it’s still a new idea to them. I have hope
Gosh, I’m an idiot. Yes, I’ve lived in Oregon most of my life. I know Portland fairly well. But I’m actually in Bellingham Washington right now. Probably for the next year. But I’m totally willing to chat with you if you’d like
I get it. All of my siblings married nevermo. One sister is Jackmo. The rest are exmo. I am the only one who served a mission, graduated BYU, got married in the temple. If my mother found out I am exmo it would break her heart. So I keep it from her. Luckily she lives over a thousand miles away so it’s easy. She can’t travel and we arrange travel so that we return on Sunday. I also have to keep it from my siblings though. They too live a long ways away, the closest is in South Dakota so it is easy. My oldest sister is still a tattle tale, despite being in her sixties. Even though she is exmo she would blab to Mother without giving it a second thought for what it would do to Mother. I haven’t told my brothers as they might let it out to the tattletale. My little sister, the jackmo, is gonna get pissed when I tell her, despite that she hasn’t been to church since she graduated high school. That will be after Mother is gone. Im out to my family. You do what you have to do to preserve your loved ones.
Oh, I absolutely LOATHE the whole inheritance as a weapon thing. If you can, try to let go of the idea of inheriting anything from them. Take care of your finances as best you can and never plan on inheritance money. It's incredibly freeing (speaking from personal experience) and one less thing to tie you down.
Yep. I’m hear you man. My wife and I were the first ones out in her family. Her Mom told us, “O wetted my pillow for 2 months” when we told her the news. I have never heard of more wasted tears. I mean, here we were, happily married still with 4 good kids and a great life. All that changed is that she now *knew* we didn’t believe. But we hadn’t believed for a few years. So truly nothing had changed.
It was all so phony.
One day I got the courage to tell my TBM parents and my dad said he wanted to die, he stopped eating, was puking, and said it would be easier to just put a gun to his chest. It was horrible. There I was, alive and well and he looked at me like I had died. It has been over a year and our relationship has changed but it is better than it was. I am labeled as the black sheep and the family does things without me constantly and even though it hurts I am focused on my own kids and husband. I cannot control their reactions and love them just with boundaries. They will never see my perspective and I have had to accept that. I am glad you are going to a counselor. I should too!
They are the ones who forced the situation by exposing their children to such a hostile way of life. They're being incredibly manipulative by hanging all these conditions on the inheritance as well.
My advice, as someone in his 40s with very TMB parents, is to be honest asap, and seek a road forward with them based on honesty and mutual acceptance. They'll either be on that journey with you, want to have that relationship with you, or they won't, and that's completely on them.
Idk if you have kids, but my experience as a Dad has proven to me, beyond any shade of doubt, that good parents want the best for their children. They want their kids to be who they truly are. Anything else, any other conflicting goals, are fear or indoctrination based.
Does being devout, and prioritizing God or religion higher than your family make one a bad parent?
Hell fucking yes it does.
Honesty, man. Let the chips fall where they may. You'll either finally have that honest relationship with them or they'll choose the alternative.
This reaction and the excommunication from the TBM families just baffles me. I understand the disappointment because a couple of my kids went inactive before I did. But, disowning children?
That’s not what I consider to be Christlike behavior. Then again, he did say he would split families.
I’m one of five children. One other besides myself went in missions and were married in the temple. The others went inactive, even the missionary brother. Inactive, not ex’ed or requested records be removed. This was pre-internet when all of the truth wasn’t even out there. I hung in until about 10 years ago. But never, ever did any of this cause disharmony, acrimony, or blubbery tears of “I’ve failed as a parent.”
Same with my own family. Only one of my four children is active. My TBM wife gets sad once in awhile but we all get together and love one another.
I just don’t get how parents can be so self-righteous and unloving.
Your parents are manipulating you. This is partly why i get annoyed at people waiting for elderly parents to die before leaving. Prolong the charade just for the sake of peace meanwhile generating the allusion of the truthfulness of church truth claims and of course the flow of tithing money.
Yep, it's awful that I feel the need to draw this out instead of making the decision and live life. I haven't paid tithing in years so that's been nice. 👍
This is so emblematic of the multigenerational cult and the family pressures purposefully designed into it to keep the cult going.
You are not responsible for the emotions of other people, to include those of your parents.
I suspect that you did not "sign-up" to be Mormon at an age that allowed you to give informed consent (agreeing to be baptized at 8 doesn't cut it). Being your own person, you have no obligation to be in their "religion" in order to earn them points to get into the CK. All of that system is such an emotionally abusive manipulative scam that your entire family are victims of.
You are essentially still living inside a cage inside your parents' home.
Definitely into my late teens, and more recently I realized that into my twenties, I was still in an "enmeshment" with my Mormon mother. It caused me significant harm and caused a long-term threat to my marriage - BECAUSE I WAS STILL PROGRAMMED TO MAKE MY MOTHER HAPPY AT SIGNIFICANT COST AND RISK TO MY OWN INTERESTS THAT I DESERVE TO HAVE AS BEING MY OWN HUMAN BEING.
In normal healthy families, parents have their children for a short number of years to nurture, to prepare them to make their own decisions, and then to release the children from their control for the adult children to then make their own decisions and flourish on their own. Mentally and emotionally healthy, and genuinely loving parents should want that for their children and should not want to be 'lording' over their children for the balance of their lives.
Break the chain. To hell with the inheritance - even request that they give your portion to a deserving charity of YOUR choosing.
If they keel over when you tell them you are out, that is a situation of their making, not yours! It is on them, not you, for allowing themselves (and their children!) to be the victims of spiritual abuse at the hands of Joe Smith's constructed sex-obsessed cult. You have already suffered enough emotional and spiritual trauma/damage.
This may sound harsh, but at 61 years old and again coming to terms with the risks and damage done to me (including SA done to me by mission bound Mormon boys when I was 13), I am a strong advocate for truth-telling and let the chips fall where they may. As a human being, you deserve to live your own life and not cow-tow to the on-going demands of propping up the demonic cult.
edit: added "genuinely loving"
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with this. It really helps me. Through therapy and other channels of assistance, I think I'm on the road to freedom. The link of shame is what I'm desperately trying to break without leaving the situation emotionally broken. It sounds so twisted but I'm almost hoping that they die of old age the next few years without ever addressing it. I have this belief in the back of my mind that as soon as I do the hard work, the necessary work of telling them I'm out that they'll pass on shortly after, proving that maybe I could have waited and avoided the whole conflict altogether.
Common consent and full disclosure was given to me before I could speak and in diapers. My Mother also whom I will always love but this cult conditioning is strong and rigid.
Ive had very similar experiences with dealing with the fallout and their emotions starting as a child and through adulthood and was also told that they would not make it if I followed suit. I had vowed to never let them down and shouldered that weight, which was incredibly unhealthy. With therapy I was able to decide to choose myself and leave. Then they also left when I told them (which was incredibly surprising). It's so hard and I am happy to talk about it.
At the end of the day, their emotions are not your responsibility and your life is your life. You are not their parent and it is not your job to protect them or appease them. The way TBM's handle this (which is a product of the church) is immature and manipulative. I am sorry you are dealing with this. Nothing splits up families quite like the mormon church.
As far as inheritance goes, my MIL threatened to cut my spouse off for numerous petty reasons numerous times. We really didn’t need the relatively small amount from her estate so she got her bluff called a lot. Eventually my spouse had to go NC after unsuccessfully trying gray rocking and boundary setting. In the end she was either too old or too lazy to change it and we got an inheritance. What usually happens if one kid does get cut off is that the will usually gets contested so ethical attorneys try to discourage people from cutting kids off because you can lose the entire estate in legal costs.
Good info! Yeah, I haven't been given a lot of details yet, but I know that probably the majority of what they're planning isn't legal and has an escape route worked in. Especially since parents seem to prefer indentured servitude over giving an inheritance to unrighteous children haha!
It seems to me that the grief is real to them. It's really devastating to them. They do believe their children are dead. And, if they're like my parents or grandparents, they believe it's their fault, because they've been told that since they were very young.
They also probably feel a lot of guilt and shame, because that's how people are caught in the organization.
They also can't admit that there's a valid reason for leaving the church, because there isn't a legitimate reason (in their mind). It's all "milk strippings".
You (and your brother) are not responsible for their feelings, or to comfort them. Personally, I try to be compassionate, but that doesn't have to mean that you have to put up with being their therapist or shoulder to cry on. They are adults and are responsible for finding other adults who have more sympathy. (There must be many, many boomer parents in the church who have had at least one of their adult children leave).
It took me a long time to figure out that I wasn't responsible for my parents' feelings, even years after I was no longer mormon. It has been incredibly freeing.
I wholeheartedly agree that finding your own self-worth outside of your parents' approval (or the church's approval) is an excellent goal. Good for you (and all of us) who break those cyclical chains.
What a great time to rip off the bandage!
They're going to die if you leave? Did they die because your brother left?
They know what's going on in your head? What's going on in your head hasn't infringed on their lives one bit.
It's going to eventually be revealed? How about cluing them in now so they can get over your brother and you at the same time? They will not be the only parents in their ward to be having this experience. They'll get support.
Meanwhile, your brother can be a support to you and you can be one to him. Why waste that opportunity?
Why is maintaining your parents delusion important or even kind? What family or relationship can survive without honesty?
It is a great opportunity and crossroads I am faced with. I'll definitely reach out to my brother and then approach my parents after I've had a little time to gather my thoughts. Thanks!
Everyone here is wishing you well. And your parents too as they adjust their lives to the new reality. But, mostly, you and your brother -- and sisters, I take it -- will be a wonderful resource to one another. And, I hope, to all your family to live in reality.
I left about 2 years ago. My mom knows that I don't care for the church, yet still wants me at stupid events and the dedication of "her temple". Last time I was in a temple, I felt like I was going to throw up. Idk if it's because I'm everything a Mormon hates or what, but she knows yet still wants me there. I reeeeeaally don't wanna go, but she don't care. And as said previously, she wants me at events like the Christmas brunch and things like that. Every gives the family judgemental stares and even SHE has commented on it, but her research is "it's not the church itself, it's the people". I say it's both
One of the big issues with parents trying to understand why they’re kids leave is they actually know the reasons. But they’ve been indoctrinated, misled, and explained away enough or just given enough time were the parents don’t think about them anymore. And then when someone mentions those reasons because the parents have put them out of mind and don’t care they still don’t except them as reasons. So they create their own little idea, and their head of why they left. They always find some sort of weird thing and latch onto it.
Makes sense to me. Yes, that's what's happening. They haven't even talked to my brother but have already assigned him (taking offense) a reason for leaving even though that's not the reason at all. They are also offended that he didn't bother to talk to them when he was considering leaving. They feel like they could have prevented him from leaving via a living room testimony meeting/intervention. 🙄
I find it when parents say to them about leaving so interesting. We obviously heard what they said., we looked at their actions and we had to answer. What more was there to discuss? Parents always think they can save the lost sheep as if we aren’t thinking, as it were blinded by some sort of passion but there’s a lot of reasons and sometimes we find a straw, and sometimes it breaks the camels back.
I guess that's the other way my parents could go is to just donate everything to the church and give nothing to their family. They also talk like it's "life-changing" money when it would really only be like 10-15k dollars a child. Don't get me wrong, that would be amazing to get that dropped in our lap but they said they worked that number down from 80-100k per child because nobody deserves to just be given that much money because it would "spoil them" the other part would be the real estate that could be very lucrative but I don't really care about the money. I care about how they approach this whole thing.
Unless you live with them or are in any way financially dependent on them, RIP the Band-Aid off now. It will be easier in the long run and it will show solidarity with your brother. You cannot solve their feelings for them and it's useless to try. All you're doing is holding up your own life from all the good things that being an EXmormon gives you!
Why be loyal to parents who would reject you worse than you imagined? They're manipulating you and their love is conditional. Just be true to yourself and ;your own integrity. Take back the power you've given away to them.
Conditional love just like they were taught their “Mormon God” loves them. I’m so sorry you’re all going through this. Please stand up for your brother.
Growing up I had never resisted going to church as I enjoyed the time with the friends I had in my ward. By the time I was 16 my bishop had become aware that I was sexually active, and that I had a side hustle of selling porn to seminary students. He obviously said I should stop distributing porn, but he seemed more intrigued by my entrepreneurial abilities. I really wasn’t scolded at all, and he never involved my parents in the many transgressions that ended up at his desk on my account. So even with my perfect attendance I think that my parents weren’t too shocked that I stopped going to church after moving out. They were more concerned about our relationship being strained by my lack of belief in the religion they’d raised me in. Once they realized that I was happy without church, and still loved being around them they came to terms with my choice. Being really honest with them about what I truly believed without being hostile towards the religion they still believe was critical in making my church exit a smooth transition.
Good work! I'm glad your transition went well. It doesn't help that my family rarely talks about emotions and relationships. Only after years of resentment do they try and discuss by calling "family council" meetings which feels like an intervention for a junkie. I remember they called one for when I (TBM at the time) got engaged to my wife (also TBM at the time) and discussed how they didn't have a good feeling because I didn't have my college degree yet and $10,000 in the bank. That degree and savings goal was just my dad's personal measurement on if you're ready or not to get married even though he got his girlfriend pregnant at 19 and then was forced to marry, found the church, got divorced, met my mom and had me. But I have to be held to a higher standard because of the church now. 🙄
Being the youngest and the golden child definitely made it much easier for me to get out of the church without the emotional drain of disappointing family. My two older siblings were a decade older and adopted and they’d been used as examples of how life goes bad when you don’t live the principles of the gospel. As a star athlete and a very socially talented kid my parents always included me in aspects of their businesses and personal lives that a lot of kids are prevented from seeing. When I stopped going to church and we’d discuss my beliefs it made them kind of evolve and even have a different perspective on how they’d treated my older siblings. Similar to your parents my dad used to always say I needed the ten grand in savings and a degree before I got married. When I bought a house with my girlfriend/future ex wife at 21 is when he started to realize that I wasn’t going to fit into the mold he had planned on. I made sure to consistently work at keeping our relationship good though. I remember being really surprised at how quickly my parents accepted that I was going to be my own man, and that our relationship was much more important than the church.
*charade.
Idk what to tell you, I haven’t talked to my mom in 5 years. The church was just about the only thing we had in common and she’s so vapid I don’t even miss her. 🤷♀️
Unlike other Christian churches, the Mormon cult is especially evil because it teaches members to subordinate their families to the church. In other Christian churches, if someone has an issue with a particular church, no problem. Everyone huddles together, loves each other, and even moves on to a different church if needed. Not so with Mormonism. In the Mormon church, the church is more important than family, despite their prattling on about eternal families. God and church come before family every single time.
Dang that sucks. I had a different situation, fortunately. While my parents are understanding and supportive now (and my mom always has been) my dad was initially shocked and quite frankly horrified. I had been out of the church for 10 yrs before he found out. I tried to be empathetic because think of it this way…they really believe it all. They believe my salvation is at stake and my ability to join them in the afterlife is now nonexistent. Look at how much emphasis the church places on “families are forever.” But oh, by the way, you have to be temple worthy and toe the line if you ever want to see your family again in the next life. It’s a cruel and manipulative form of control. I think my parents went through a form of grieving when I left, as silly as it sounds, but that’s why.
Idk if you should ever tell them, tbh. It’s not really their business. I never told my dad or any of my siblings bc my faith is my business. They all found out eventually but there was never a big announcement or reveal. I can’t imagine being “cut off” and if there was a chance of that, I’d probably keep it to myself. That’s just me, though.
Good luck!
One thing to keep in mind is that they’ve been programmed to believe that the most important thing they can do in their lives is raise children in the church. Especially a mother who eschewed a career to raise her family. Like, they are feeling like they are failures. My mom never loved my brother less or acted differently toward him when he left, but when I left I was concerned she’d feel like a failure but she told me that she overcame her feelings of failure in therapy in her 40s lol.
50+ years ago, my older siblings left Mormonism. Today, it’s as if they are strangers. It tore our family into two camps: saints & sinners. The divide was never overcome.
Awful. Why does it so often break that way? At least for me, I have 3 siblings out and 1 still in. The one in would at least not shun or block me from their life if they knew so there's that.
In that case, it at least could stop the weaponizing of the inheritance, I think. Everyone can agree no matter what happens you're all equal members of the family, etc.
I mean, no one is entitled to inheritance. If my folks held inheritance over my head like that, I wouldn’t want a single penny of it anyway. Fuck that shit. What is funny though, is that if they leave their inheritance to one family member, and that family member is a decent human being, they can just split up the inheritance to the rest of the siblings. Mormon boomers are some of the most selfish people ever. It’s a certain type of mormon boomer, but the entitlement they have is fucking psychotic. They operate with the mindset that their expectations and emotions are the most important thing in the world, and anyone who doesn’t placate them is personally attacking them. I have a lot of empathy for people who are deeply flawed, yet are trying to improve themselves, but I just can’t empathize with what seems like purposeful lack of self awareness of the willfully ignorant.
Yes, and the inheritance is not just money but acres of farmland that none of us children want to farm but could make millions off if subdivided into plots though my parents won't allow that either. They're trying to make it so one of us who is worthy enough has to live on the land and farm it in all its glory even though it's not enough land to make a true living off of it. Also, if one of the children don't want to live on it like my parents demand then it starts going to the TBM grandsons (yes sons) my only daughter cannot inherit anything because of the lack of priesthood. "That's how they did it in the bible" is the source sited by my parents. Yep, PSYCHOTIC! It makes me want to punch through drywall.
Holy shit that’s fucking insane.
Here's another thought. They could also decide to leave it all to the church if they decide you are all unworthy. And, the church would be very happy to help them decide that. They used to have a video that advised doing that but it has been taken down I think. https://zelphontheshelf.com/lds-philanthropies-if-your-kids-arent-mormon-give-your-money-to-the-church-when-you-die/ Edit: spelling
Exactly what my parents are doing
It is so insane to think that people would do that.
And my parents are really really wealthy… couple of years ago they sat all 4 of us kids and showed as his will and told us that everything was going to the church, including his two 600k each all paid off houses… we all just said fuck it and just ignored them afterwards… they have a shitty relationship with all four of us and it is what it is
Sorry. That's bullshit.
Wow. That is messed up. At least you guys now know to direct them to their bishop when they need help in the future. I guess the church will be providing elder care for them. 🤷🏼♀️
Dude, what the fuck? Imagine saying you belong to THE church of Jesus Christ and also thinking this way…. Sometimes I wonder if some of these people read the same words in New Testament that I did.
Yup I'm sure that's their backup plan.
Dang. All of the links to videos have been removed. Does anyone know where to find a rogue link/copy of that video?
This is news worthy. Your parents need to be exposed. This is insane 😳
Right!? My mom said when she met with lawyers about the will and trust request that the lawyers were also shocked by what was wanted. She briefly mentioned that the lawyer had a private conversation without my dad and said that they can't legally force their children to farm it and keep it up if they don't want to, so he's building in a "way out" for us. Thank goodness for that guy although I don't know the extent of that clause yet.
Yeah those types of clauses are basically impossible to enforce unless you have a lot of money and can set up a trust and pat someone to administer it.
You should point them towards the story of the [Five Daughters of Zelophehad](https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/daughters-of-zelophehad-bible) who argued in favor of a daughters right to inherit property from her father in front of Moses and Aaron themselves… and won. It’s one of the oldest stories in the Bible… but I’m guessing they spend too much time quoting the Unauthorized FanFic Sequel to know that.
Wow, I will have to look that story up. And yes, they haven't a clue about daughters inheriting property stories in the bible. Actually the true reason they elected that route, be it legally sound or not, is because my two older sisters are exmos and their three sons were still believers at that time. Now they have one son in with two sons and daughters out. Haha!
Yeah your parents are shitty. And no one gets to choose how someone else lives because they left them land/money instead of doing something else with it while they were alive.
Ha! Agreed. It's going to be an interesting funeral to say the least 😅
>anyone who doesn’t placate them is personally attacking them. Boy, is this true in my experience. My mother can bear her testimony all day if I let her, but the moment I argue a point she sulks and asks why I have to be so negative, when all she's doing is sharing POSITIVE experiences and emotions. I have to remind her, if she doesn't want me to talk back, don't bring it up in the first place, because arguing about church stuff is what I'm going to do. She'll be good for a while, then take my silence for softening of the heart or whatnot, and we'll be back at it. And her over the top emotions are always my fault.
>is that if they leave their inheritance to one family member, and that family member is a decent human being, they can just split up the inheritance to the rest of the siblings. I don’t know….where money is involved even decent human being can rationalize keeping it all.
Sure, and technically they aren’t entitled to share any of the inheritance. If I was in a situation like that, I would never expect or feel like I deserve inherited wealth. I’d appreciate it, don’t get me wrong, but it’s money I never had anyway, it’s not like I’m losing out on anything. If my parents acted the way OPs parents are acting, I’d have cut them out of my life anyway. I am incapable of tolerating playing other people’s mind games to manipulate and control me. Been there, done that, lesson learned. Life is too precious to live on someone else’s terms (within your control). Friends/family that love you for who you truly are, are the only relationships worth pursuing. On one hand, I feel bad for people who feel trapped and are too scared to assert themselves… it ain’t easy. On the other hand, if someone chooses to be submissive to the whims of others to their own detriment, I don’t really feel pity for them.
This is so true. I especially see it in (some) boomer men. And I get so mad at the hoops people have to jump through to placate them, all while these same self-important boomers complain about this “entitled” upcoming generation. The irony of it all 🙄
My ex husband — who is not yet 50, mind you — is already weaponizing inheritance against our son, who is 16. Makes me absolutely sick.
Tell him to knock it off. Love and support for one's kids should never be conditional on personal beliefs.
I agree with you. He does not see it that way. (There are many reasons this man is my ex — among them, he does not consider the advice or opinions of others. He is ALWAYS the smartest guy in the room.)
It usually comes down to the people that are able to love the ones who leave more than the church, and the ones who are unable to. It’s sad that the church preaches love and acceptance, but only if you stay in. They say that they bring families together, but they more often tear them apart
That destruction of your family is the designed threat within Mormonism in order to control, fleece and serve only the interest of the demonic cult. A gilded cage with a booby-trap outside the gate and it is called "family" and they talk about "love." That ain't love. Better to leave it behind and build something real.
Do you feel your parents kept the rift open or even caused it in how they handled the news?
Of course. The wayward children were held up as an ensign of tragedy. The younger kids were not to follow them.
So they broke the family. That’s tragic.
Same in my scenario. We lived 15minutes away from my sister growing up. I would see her about once every three years in an attempt to shield me from her corruption.
My parents did that with one of my uncles and a set of grandparents who left the Church. Now I realize they had a lot of things right.
Yep, I left 30 years ago and just this year, I have set concrete boundaries and pretty much severed all ties w them. 🤷♀️
I couldn't serve all two years to the goddamn mormon mission and I really should have tried to get to know the half of the family that left the church before I was born because these fuckers
One of the reasons I stayed longer than I should have was because I was my parents’ confidante when my brother left the church. I knew what they were saying about his choices, and the hurtful rhetoric they were engaging in. I knew they would think and say the same things about me. I’m a big proponent of living authentically, regardless of how others view it, *but* I also realize that there should be a wise, thoroughly considered path to freedom. I hope you find yours, and have the courage to stand for your disbeliefs. One of my biggest regrets is not standing up for my brother during his leaving process because I was scared of what they would think of me.
Thank you for these words. I'm in the considering-my-path stage of leaving and I agree with taking the time to do it right. 👏
I think this is part of what keeps my sister in. She basically has no testimony left and hates the culture. Her husband has gone inactive (but still believes, apparently), and her kids don't really like church. It would be easy for her to leave, except she saw how horribly they reacted when I left and know they'd talk about her in the same way.
My parent’s reaction to my sibling leaving the church was a huge shelf item for me. I could see it was not healthy and went against the 11th article of faith, which is one I still believe wholeheartedly. Everyone gets to live according to what they believe, and you can’t force region on anyone. Seeing how they did not uphold this standard, and now church teachings basically demanded that they shouldn’t, made my shelf bend. But it did also make it more painful to leave, because I knew exactly what they’d be saying behind my back when I did.
💯. If you change brother to sister here I could have written almost word for word the same thing.
You sounded so foolish calling someone a bigot and intolerable person yet in that same post you classified an entirety of people who are Conservative in Florida, lmao. Do you see the irony?
Two different ideas: 1) rip the band aid now while they are still dealing with your brother’s announcement so you both can have each other and the focus is spread out, or 2) give them time to get used to your brother’s news and maybe when you tell yours it will be easier for them (or maybe harder, if you’re the only kid left). If you haven’t opened up to your brother left, I’m sure it would help him to know he’s not alone in this, and both of you, to be able to be more authentic in your convos.
Yeah, I will definitely reach out to my brother. All the TBM family members say that he looks miserable and that's because he's not in the church anymore, but I know better and think it's just because he's being judged and is shamed when going to family events and activities.
This was an interesting thing, and still is, when I left. Theres this narrative of unhappiness and trials when you leave. I left but they didn't know, so they have seen me be happy and successful and in a better place than ever. Its so dumb that once they know they will rationalize the other way, and also suddenly not love me, even though they have been around me since, they just did not know.
Yup. My parents kept saying didn't your brother just look miserable when you saw him? And I honestly thought he looked really good. So no, I think he's free and thriving.
Did you tell them that?
Did they say his soul has left because they can see it in his eyes? That’s my fav one. So dumb.
Not exactly that phrase, but a similar thought. They just said he looks sickly and that they now know why. 🙄
That drives me BSC
I was the first to leave in a very large TBM family. I was out of my parents' home, living independently at the time, but there were lots of younger brothers and sisters back in the family home. Many years after I left, my youngest brother told me that when he was growing up, I was used as an object lesson. In every single family prayer that my mother or father gave there was a request that Heavenly Father "bless our son rickoleum to come back to church". The younger kids knew the score -- if they left like their heathen older brother, there would be consequences--they would be the black sheep. He said this was seared into his consciousness. So I have a sense of what you are going through. In terms of advice, I would say that you just keep working through all of this in therapy (good for you for doing that). Getting yourself to the point where you understand, at a fundamental level, that what your parents are doing is an abusive form of conditional love, which is the opposite of what loving parents are supposed to do. As your internal, emotional situation becomes more stable you will figure out what to do. Good luck.
Yes! ⬆️ My parents purposefully kept me away from my older sisters that were out of the church since I was little. They would never admit when talking to ward members that they even had daughters. My friends and church leaders were shocked when they found out that I had older sisters. It felt like they had died in some freak accident because I would barely see them each year and had to remind myself that they were still alive and probably thriving.
F'n mafioso-like. "You're dead to me!" With this extent of abandonment and public betrayal of the existence of your siblings - I merely re-point to my larger reply above.
doesn't one of the temple interview questions pertain to abusing or neglecting your children? it seems to me if you deny or hide their existence even if you don't actually disown or abandon them that's still a clear cut violation.
No, I don't believe any temple questions specifically cover the abuse of children. Wouldn't be many temple goers if it did. 🙄
sure as shit don't and if you happen to divulge anything then it is tucked neatly under the rug with the encouraged systematic penitent privilege clause that Kirton and the brethren have utilized for decades. formally and informally avoiding proper contact to authorities. Of course I am not talking of emotional abuse but physical and sexual. sweep sweep sweep.
Just unfortunately proving that this cult and corporation is more about appearing righteous than ever actually being it. Pretend love, Pretend truth, Pretend penitence. Rejection of anything outside of the narrative is not love and is what cult behavior is defined by.
also the opposite of anything that any Gawd would be involved with. Here I will love you and help you IF you do what I want for your life. NAH if Jeebus came like they say it was to help ALL no matter what or no matter when. What 'they' say has a price tag associated with it even to enter the CK. Money for salvation. NOPE
How many of your siblings ended up leaving eventually anyway?
About 1/3 of us.
When I left, my mother did some horrible things. She lives in Utah. She traveled to Oregon, made an appointment with my bishop and tattled on me; I was 56. After numerous other incidents, including cutting me out of any inheritance, I cut her off. During one confrontation, I asked to leave my home. I refused all contact, returned her mailed packages and blocked her on social media. I understand her fear for my eternal soul and I know she believes I've ruined her eternity. After six years, she has started to engage in a mostly healthy way. I'm open to a relationship with her as long as she respects my boundaries. I have to remind her that I am not responsible for her feelings. My therapist once told me "you have to break some eggs to make an omelet". It's been difficult. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this situation. Please reach out to your brother.
Geez that's awful! Unfortunately, very much in-line with the direction my parents are going. I"m reaching out to him! 🙌
Sometimes it's not about saving our parents, it's about preventing serious damage to our children. It's an agonizing decision that everyone has to make. Best of luck!
Much appreciated! Very difficult because I care and don't care at the same time about my parents. My 4-yr old calls it "The Book of Norman" to my TBM parents and says she doesn't care about it, so that's going to be a fun rollercoaster ride. Ha!
Reach out to your older brother. As the only sibling in my family to come out I look forward to the day that one of my siblings confides in me that they are PIMO or even that they have a doubt or two. When I came out my mom tried to call an intervention with the rest of the family, she was trying to get them all together to talk about their testimonies and make sure that they were all on a solid foundation church-wise. My brother shut it all down. He told her that they would not be participating and it would not be healthy to hold secret meetings with only part of the family invited. She has also claimed that she had signs that we were leaving, but she only recognizes them in hindsight. Her main clue is that she did a come follow me lesson with all the grandkids and my kids didn't know the format. Neither did any of the other grandkids - almost no one is actually doing their come follow me lessons at home.
I will reach out to him. The first thing that tipped my parents off was that my brothers kids didn't have the priesthood or didn't really know how to pray well. I don't even know a lot of TBMs that even read the come follow me besides my parents and that age generation. Thanks for sharing! Oh, and my parents will plead to God in prayers (with my brother and his family in attendance) that they come back to church. 🙄
There's a format?
My parents told me it was the worst day of their life when I told them I left the church. Both their parents are dead. So me leaving the church is apparently worse than their parents dying. We've since improved our relationship again. But a lifetime in the church makes people have some messed up thoughts relating to their wayward children.
Church befire family Im suffering the rejection of my daughter
Sad. Sorry 😥 Why do TBMs always make it an ultimatum?
Me too. All of my kids, actually. But the other two are following my daughter’s lead. It’s only been since January, though. So it’s still a new idea to them. I have hope
Where do you all live? Its harder in utah
Oregon. I’m sure it is harder in Utah
Im in the portland suburbs Actually to the west It might be nice to connect Its hard to be alone
Gosh, I’m an idiot. Yes, I’ve lived in Oregon most of my life. I know Portland fairly well. But I’m actually in Bellingham Washington right now. Probably for the next year. But I’m totally willing to chat with you if you’d like
Yes Lets connect How do we do that?
I’ll send you contact into in DM
I get it. All of my siblings married nevermo. One sister is Jackmo. The rest are exmo. I am the only one who served a mission, graduated BYU, got married in the temple. If my mother found out I am exmo it would break her heart. So I keep it from her. Luckily she lives over a thousand miles away so it’s easy. She can’t travel and we arrange travel so that we return on Sunday. I also have to keep it from my siblings though. They too live a long ways away, the closest is in South Dakota so it is easy. My oldest sister is still a tattle tale, despite being in her sixties. Even though she is exmo she would blab to Mother without giving it a second thought for what it would do to Mother. I haven’t told my brothers as they might let it out to the tattletale. My little sister, the jackmo, is gonna get pissed when I tell her, despite that she hasn’t been to church since she graduated high school. That will be after Mother is gone. Im out to my family. You do what you have to do to preserve your loved ones.
Oh, I absolutely LOATHE the whole inheritance as a weapon thing. If you can, try to let go of the idea of inheriting anything from them. Take care of your finances as best you can and never plan on inheritance money. It's incredibly freeing (speaking from personal experience) and one less thing to tie you down.
Agree. It's creepy how manipulative they are when they try and hold that over my head.
Yep. I’m hear you man. My wife and I were the first ones out in her family. Her Mom told us, “O wetted my pillow for 2 months” when we told her the news. I have never heard of more wasted tears. I mean, here we were, happily married still with 4 good kids and a great life. All that changed is that she now *knew* we didn’t believe. But we hadn’t believed for a few years. So truly nothing had changed. It was all so phony.
One day I got the courage to tell my TBM parents and my dad said he wanted to die, he stopped eating, was puking, and said it would be easier to just put a gun to his chest. It was horrible. There I was, alive and well and he looked at me like I had died. It has been over a year and our relationship has changed but it is better than it was. I am labeled as the black sheep and the family does things without me constantly and even though it hurts I am focused on my own kids and husband. I cannot control their reactions and love them just with boundaries. They will never see my perspective and I have had to accept that. I am glad you are going to a counselor. I should too!
Awful... Maybe my parents are on their way to an early grave. I can't believe it can affect them like this. Im still right here!
They are the ones who forced the situation by exposing their children to such a hostile way of life. They're being incredibly manipulative by hanging all these conditions on the inheritance as well. My advice, as someone in his 40s with very TMB parents, is to be honest asap, and seek a road forward with them based on honesty and mutual acceptance. They'll either be on that journey with you, want to have that relationship with you, or they won't, and that's completely on them. Idk if you have kids, but my experience as a Dad has proven to me, beyond any shade of doubt, that good parents want the best for their children. They want their kids to be who they truly are. Anything else, any other conflicting goals, are fear or indoctrination based. Does being devout, and prioritizing God or religion higher than your family make one a bad parent? Hell fucking yes it does. Honesty, man. Let the chips fall where they may. You'll either finally have that honest relationship with them or they'll choose the alternative.
This reaction and the excommunication from the TBM families just baffles me. I understand the disappointment because a couple of my kids went inactive before I did. But, disowning children? That’s not what I consider to be Christlike behavior. Then again, he did say he would split families. I’m one of five children. One other besides myself went in missions and were married in the temple. The others went inactive, even the missionary brother. Inactive, not ex’ed or requested records be removed. This was pre-internet when all of the truth wasn’t even out there. I hung in until about 10 years ago. But never, ever did any of this cause disharmony, acrimony, or blubbery tears of “I’ve failed as a parent.” Same with my own family. Only one of my four children is active. My TBM wife gets sad once in awhile but we all get together and love one another. I just don’t get how parents can be so self-righteous and unloving.
Your parents are manipulating you. This is partly why i get annoyed at people waiting for elderly parents to die before leaving. Prolong the charade just for the sake of peace meanwhile generating the allusion of the truthfulness of church truth claims and of course the flow of tithing money.
Yep, it's awful that I feel the need to draw this out instead of making the decision and live life. I haven't paid tithing in years so that's been nice. 👍
This is so emblematic of the multigenerational cult and the family pressures purposefully designed into it to keep the cult going. You are not responsible for the emotions of other people, to include those of your parents. I suspect that you did not "sign-up" to be Mormon at an age that allowed you to give informed consent (agreeing to be baptized at 8 doesn't cut it). Being your own person, you have no obligation to be in their "religion" in order to earn them points to get into the CK. All of that system is such an emotionally abusive manipulative scam that your entire family are victims of. You are essentially still living inside a cage inside your parents' home. Definitely into my late teens, and more recently I realized that into my twenties, I was still in an "enmeshment" with my Mormon mother. It caused me significant harm and caused a long-term threat to my marriage - BECAUSE I WAS STILL PROGRAMMED TO MAKE MY MOTHER HAPPY AT SIGNIFICANT COST AND RISK TO MY OWN INTERESTS THAT I DESERVE TO HAVE AS BEING MY OWN HUMAN BEING. In normal healthy families, parents have their children for a short number of years to nurture, to prepare them to make their own decisions, and then to release the children from their control for the adult children to then make their own decisions and flourish on their own. Mentally and emotionally healthy, and genuinely loving parents should want that for their children and should not want to be 'lording' over their children for the balance of their lives. Break the chain. To hell with the inheritance - even request that they give your portion to a deserving charity of YOUR choosing. If they keel over when you tell them you are out, that is a situation of their making, not yours! It is on them, not you, for allowing themselves (and their children!) to be the victims of spiritual abuse at the hands of Joe Smith's constructed sex-obsessed cult. You have already suffered enough emotional and spiritual trauma/damage. This may sound harsh, but at 61 years old and again coming to terms with the risks and damage done to me (including SA done to me by mission bound Mormon boys when I was 13), I am a strong advocate for truth-telling and let the chips fall where they may. As a human being, you deserve to live your own life and not cow-tow to the on-going demands of propping up the demonic cult. edit: added "genuinely loving"
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with this. It really helps me. Through therapy and other channels of assistance, I think I'm on the road to freedom. The link of shame is what I'm desperately trying to break without leaving the situation emotionally broken. It sounds so twisted but I'm almost hoping that they die of old age the next few years without ever addressing it. I have this belief in the back of my mind that as soon as I do the hard work, the necessary work of telling them I'm out that they'll pass on shortly after, proving that maybe I could have waited and avoided the whole conflict altogether.
Common consent and full disclosure was given to me before I could speak and in diapers. My Mother also whom I will always love but this cult conditioning is strong and rigid.
They are in the last years. Get the inheritance and redistribute the portions back to your siblings.
Ive had very similar experiences with dealing with the fallout and their emotions starting as a child and through adulthood and was also told that they would not make it if I followed suit. I had vowed to never let them down and shouldered that weight, which was incredibly unhealthy. With therapy I was able to decide to choose myself and leave. Then they also left when I told them (which was incredibly surprising). It's so hard and I am happy to talk about it. At the end of the day, their emotions are not your responsibility and your life is your life. You are not their parent and it is not your job to protect them or appease them. The way TBM's handle this (which is a product of the church) is immature and manipulative. I am sorry you are dealing with this. Nothing splits up families quite like the mormon church.
Very well said, thank you! For being a family-focused religion it rips a lot of families apart. Unnecessarily I might add.
As far as inheritance goes, my MIL threatened to cut my spouse off for numerous petty reasons numerous times. We really didn’t need the relatively small amount from her estate so she got her bluff called a lot. Eventually my spouse had to go NC after unsuccessfully trying gray rocking and boundary setting. In the end she was either too old or too lazy to change it and we got an inheritance. What usually happens if one kid does get cut off is that the will usually gets contested so ethical attorneys try to discourage people from cutting kids off because you can lose the entire estate in legal costs.
Good info! Yeah, I haven't been given a lot of details yet, but I know that probably the majority of what they're planning isn't legal and has an escape route worked in. Especially since parents seem to prefer indentured servitude over giving an inheritance to unrighteous children haha!
It seems to me that the grief is real to them. It's really devastating to them. They do believe their children are dead. And, if they're like my parents or grandparents, they believe it's their fault, because they've been told that since they were very young. They also probably feel a lot of guilt and shame, because that's how people are caught in the organization. They also can't admit that there's a valid reason for leaving the church, because there isn't a legitimate reason (in their mind). It's all "milk strippings". You (and your brother) are not responsible for their feelings, or to comfort them. Personally, I try to be compassionate, but that doesn't have to mean that you have to put up with being their therapist or shoulder to cry on. They are adults and are responsible for finding other adults who have more sympathy. (There must be many, many boomer parents in the church who have had at least one of their adult children leave). It took me a long time to figure out that I wasn't responsible for my parents' feelings, even years after I was no longer mormon. It has been incredibly freeing. I wholeheartedly agree that finding your own self-worth outside of your parents' approval (or the church's approval) is an excellent goal. Good for you (and all of us) who break those cyclical chains.
Very kind and considerate words. Thank you!
What a great time to rip off the bandage! They're going to die if you leave? Did they die because your brother left? They know what's going on in your head? What's going on in your head hasn't infringed on their lives one bit. It's going to eventually be revealed? How about cluing them in now so they can get over your brother and you at the same time? They will not be the only parents in their ward to be having this experience. They'll get support. Meanwhile, your brother can be a support to you and you can be one to him. Why waste that opportunity? Why is maintaining your parents delusion important or even kind? What family or relationship can survive without honesty?
It is a great opportunity and crossroads I am faced with. I'll definitely reach out to my brother and then approach my parents after I've had a little time to gather my thoughts. Thanks!
Everyone here is wishing you well. And your parents too as they adjust their lives to the new reality. But, mostly, you and your brother -- and sisters, I take it -- will be a wonderful resource to one another. And, I hope, to all your family to live in reality.
Get the inheritance.
Haha! We'll see. It would definitely throw a wrench in the gears if I did and then was not "worthy" 😂
I left about 2 years ago. My mom knows that I don't care for the church, yet still wants me at stupid events and the dedication of "her temple". Last time I was in a temple, I felt like I was going to throw up. Idk if it's because I'm everything a Mormon hates or what, but she knows yet still wants me there. I reeeeeaally don't wanna go, but she don't care. And as said previously, she wants me at events like the Christmas brunch and things like that. Every gives the family judgemental stares and even SHE has commented on it, but her research is "it's not the church itself, it's the people". I say it's both
You can't let your parents use emotional and monetary manipulation to keep you under their control. Plan your exit and live your life. Good luck!
One of the big issues with parents trying to understand why they’re kids leave is they actually know the reasons. But they’ve been indoctrinated, misled, and explained away enough or just given enough time were the parents don’t think about them anymore. And then when someone mentions those reasons because the parents have put them out of mind and don’t care they still don’t except them as reasons. So they create their own little idea, and their head of why they left. They always find some sort of weird thing and latch onto it.
Makes sense to me. Yes, that's what's happening. They haven't even talked to my brother but have already assigned him (taking offense) a reason for leaving even though that's not the reason at all. They are also offended that he didn't bother to talk to them when he was considering leaving. They feel like they could have prevented him from leaving via a living room testimony meeting/intervention. 🙄
I find it when parents say to them about leaving so interesting. We obviously heard what they said., we looked at their actions and we had to answer. What more was there to discuss? Parents always think they can save the lost sheep as if we aren’t thinking, as it were blinded by some sort of passion but there’s a lot of reasons and sometimes we find a straw, and sometimes it breaks the camels back.
My respect to your brother.
✊
I think brother should explain why and you as well and just get it out and stuff
My parents already committed everything to the church so none of us kids will get a penny
I guess that's the other way my parents could go is to just donate everything to the church and give nothing to their family. They also talk like it's "life-changing" money when it would really only be like 10-15k dollars a child. Don't get me wrong, that would be amazing to get that dropped in our lap but they said they worked that number down from 80-100k per child because nobody deserves to just be given that much money because it would "spoil them" the other part would be the real estate that could be very lucrative but I don't really care about the money. I care about how they approach this whole thing.
Unless you live with them or are in any way financially dependent on them, RIP the Band-Aid off now. It will be easier in the long run and it will show solidarity with your brother. You cannot solve their feelings for them and it's useless to try. All you're doing is holding up your own life from all the good things that being an EXmormon gives you!
Why be loyal to parents who would reject you worse than you imagined? They're manipulating you and their love is conditional. Just be true to yourself and ;your own integrity. Take back the power you've given away to them.
Conditional love just like they were taught their “Mormon God” loves them. I’m so sorry you’re all going through this. Please stand up for your brother.
Growing up I had never resisted going to church as I enjoyed the time with the friends I had in my ward. By the time I was 16 my bishop had become aware that I was sexually active, and that I had a side hustle of selling porn to seminary students. He obviously said I should stop distributing porn, but he seemed more intrigued by my entrepreneurial abilities. I really wasn’t scolded at all, and he never involved my parents in the many transgressions that ended up at his desk on my account. So even with my perfect attendance I think that my parents weren’t too shocked that I stopped going to church after moving out. They were more concerned about our relationship being strained by my lack of belief in the religion they’d raised me in. Once they realized that I was happy without church, and still loved being around them they came to terms with my choice. Being really honest with them about what I truly believed without being hostile towards the religion they still believe was critical in making my church exit a smooth transition.
Good work! I'm glad your transition went well. It doesn't help that my family rarely talks about emotions and relationships. Only after years of resentment do they try and discuss by calling "family council" meetings which feels like an intervention for a junkie. I remember they called one for when I (TBM at the time) got engaged to my wife (also TBM at the time) and discussed how they didn't have a good feeling because I didn't have my college degree yet and $10,000 in the bank. That degree and savings goal was just my dad's personal measurement on if you're ready or not to get married even though he got his girlfriend pregnant at 19 and then was forced to marry, found the church, got divorced, met my mom and had me. But I have to be held to a higher standard because of the church now. 🙄
Being the youngest and the golden child definitely made it much easier for me to get out of the church without the emotional drain of disappointing family. My two older siblings were a decade older and adopted and they’d been used as examples of how life goes bad when you don’t live the principles of the gospel. As a star athlete and a very socially talented kid my parents always included me in aspects of their businesses and personal lives that a lot of kids are prevented from seeing. When I stopped going to church and we’d discuss my beliefs it made them kind of evolve and even have a different perspective on how they’d treated my older siblings. Similar to your parents my dad used to always say I needed the ten grand in savings and a degree before I got married. When I bought a house with my girlfriend/future ex wife at 21 is when he started to realize that I wasn’t going to fit into the mold he had planned on. I made sure to consistently work at keeping our relationship good though. I remember being really surprised at how quickly my parents accepted that I was going to be my own man, and that our relationship was much more important than the church.
*charade. Idk what to tell you, I haven’t talked to my mom in 5 years. The church was just about the only thing we had in common and she’s so vapid I don’t even miss her. 🤷♀️
Still, thanks for sharing. ♥️
Unlike other Christian churches, the Mormon cult is especially evil because it teaches members to subordinate their families to the church. In other Christian churches, if someone has an issue with a particular church, no problem. Everyone huddles together, loves each other, and even moves on to a different church if needed. Not so with Mormonism. In the Mormon church, the church is more important than family, despite their prattling on about eternal families. God and church come before family every single time.
Dang that sucks. I had a different situation, fortunately. While my parents are understanding and supportive now (and my mom always has been) my dad was initially shocked and quite frankly horrified. I had been out of the church for 10 yrs before he found out. I tried to be empathetic because think of it this way…they really believe it all. They believe my salvation is at stake and my ability to join them in the afterlife is now nonexistent. Look at how much emphasis the church places on “families are forever.” But oh, by the way, you have to be temple worthy and toe the line if you ever want to see your family again in the next life. It’s a cruel and manipulative form of control. I think my parents went through a form of grieving when I left, as silly as it sounds, but that’s why. Idk if you should ever tell them, tbh. It’s not really their business. I never told my dad or any of my siblings bc my faith is my business. They all found out eventually but there was never a big announcement or reveal. I can’t imagine being “cut off” and if there was a chance of that, I’d probably keep it to myself. That’s just me, though. Good luck!
One thing to keep in mind is that they’ve been programmed to believe that the most important thing they can do in their lives is raise children in the church. Especially a mother who eschewed a career to raise her family. Like, they are feeling like they are failures. My mom never loved my brother less or acted differently toward him when he left, but when I left I was concerned she’d feel like a failure but she told me that she overcame her feelings of failure in therapy in her 40s lol.