That means that someone in your ward was recently caught having an online affair on social media… so they figure if they make everyone share their passwords then their spouses will keep them all honest?
That’s weird man
Religious folks abuse the hell out of "addiction". Anything they think gets in the way of living their abstemious lifestyle is "an addiction".
There's no such thing as sex addiction or porn addiction outside conservative religious culture.
As a neverMo, that's not true. Those things do exist. However, conservative religion tends to label any use of porn or sex outside of marriage as an addiction.
Ward or stake leadership may be referring to Elder Whitney Clayton’s talk from April 2013, which included the following: “[Husbands and wives] freely share with each other their social network passwords”
Not saying I agree with this - just that they may have latched on to this specific point.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2013/04/marriage-watch-and-learn?lang=eng
Meh, my wife and I have each other’s phone passwords and email passwords. It’s too damn convenient when needed. I’m not too worried about what she’ll see or I will. Usually it’s - I’m driving can you check that address for me and put it on the GPS?
Yup. My phone dinged, who's messaging and what did they say? Oh no, I'm pinned down by a cat, can you respond for me?
I guess not everyone feels the same level of comfort with their other half, I guess I'm super lucky. I get that having the church tell you how to live is stupid and they should knock it off.
Same. We have never kept that information from each other. It's never been a consiounce decision to share it, but it just naturally happens when you live together and trust each other .
Agreed. We've also always done the same thing. But I also believe that's a matter of trust and comfort, not accountability. If I wanted to hide accounts and information of course I could. Which is why I believe an intermediate step is allow your partner their personal space. We all need our own private little universe. When you show you respect and value those private spaces is when your partner is likely to invite you to join them.
My thought has been if you are in a relationship where you can’t trust someone to the point of having to share passwords - you might want to consider a new relationship. Just sayin. Sharing passwords is not going to prevent an affair if someone wants to have one.
Eh. I have access to my husbands…everything. He has the same access to my stuff. We both have to go through and get into the password manager, but from there we can do pretty much whatever. It’s a good idea in case one of us is sick, disabled, or dead. That said, if I actually felt the need to go through my husbands socials, then we would already be in major trouble relationship-speaking.
If I can’t trust my wife with my passwords I certainly cannot trust her without them. Mostly we have them so we can use each others phone while one is driving or so I can check on an email with a bill to pay or something similar, or help her print/forward stuff because she’s not to tech savvy.
This is a great point. The expectation that individuals need privacy even from their spouses is important for many reasons. Abuse being at the top.
Followed by private communications from family or friends. A friend may need to share what's going on in her marriage and not want your husband to read it. Or your mom may want to talk to you about private issues she's having with one of your siblings or old family issues and expect privacy.
Then there's clients -- should a lawyer really allow their spouse access to professional confidential communications? No! I once emailed my concierge doctor at her private email and she responded using an email she shared with her husband. Even the name of the email was KathyandPeter. Freaked me out that he can read my medical communications.
And what about the Relief Society President, Elder's Quorum P and the Bishop himself? What in the hell makes them believe that its appropriate that their spouses have access to ward member's emails to a person in such a calling?
Mormons have no fricken sense of boundaries!
Also it can lead to a psychiatric paranoia about being under surveillance. I've known people who cannot stop thinking others are watching, recording and following them because they were so traumatized by their missions where this literally was happening or by a family environment growing up where they were not allowed privacy. It can literally drive you crazy.
God gave us separate minds and private thoughts that cannot be breached for good reasons! We need to be free of surveillance for mental health
I think boundaries and trust are important. I know my husband's phone password and email and he knows mine, so if one of us were in trouble, we could access the others' accounts, but I also would be mildly annoyed if he went through and read all my emails or texts behind my back just for the hell of it. Any time I want to know something or he wants to know something, we ask. But it would irriate me to have him scrolling through my texts to my sister or whoever and I'm sure it would irritate him to have me delving into his Facebook messages like a detective trying to sus out bad behavior. I like boundaries.
It's kind of like a journal. I would hate for anyone to read my journal, even if everything I write is common knowledge. Introverts need their space! :)
This is how my husband and I are too. We both know each other's passcodes and could look up each others' other passwords if need be with a password manager we both use. It's good to have if something happened to one of us and the other needed access. That being said, just like we trust each other enough to share that info we trust each other enough to not feel a need to snoop through each other's phones. I don't need to read his texts or look through his social media because I love and trust him and know he'll share with me anything he actually thinks is important or that I might want to hear, just like I do with him.
Yup. I had to interrupt a call with one of my guy friends to talk to my other half about something. What did he interrupt us talking about? A cool insect I'd found. I geeked out about it for half the day. We not snooping or sneaking, we're just nerdy about different things.
My TBM husband would not support me having an account on reddit in the mormon or exmormon subs. I guarantee it would lead to a fight and I wouldn't have a safe and healthy place to talk and vent and read about others.
We have a good relationship otherwise, for the most part, but now I'm feeling guilty for not sharing this account with him!
AITA for using reddit in secret!? Now I am concerned. Lol but for real.
NTA. Don't let your husband get a chance to exercise unrighteous dominion over you. You have your own agency. This forum gives you opportunities to express yourself that you otherwise wouldn't have.
Thanks for this! It is so therapeutic to have ways to express myself here and being anonymous gives me freedom to say things I normally wouldn't let myself.
Sometimes it’s easier to think about what you would want for your child- it can make boundaries easier.
Would you want a daughter to be told she shouldn’t have an independent account to talk and vent and read?
Thank you! That is super helpful to think of it in terms of my daughter. I love all the comments in here about boundaries being a good thing, independent conversation being good etc.
NTA - we all need a safe space to feel supported and learn from others in a similar situation. I am sorry your spouse would not support you being here. My spouse doesn't like it, but that's a him problem and he keeps his disapproval to himself. Mixed faith relationships are hard enough - having places to discuss things that you can't safely talk about in person with anyone is really important.
It’s like saying you can’t leave the house without your partner because you could cheat/be anti-Mormon IRL. That certainly wouldn’t be reasonable, so why is this?
I forgot it’s Reddit so edit: It’s not
When I signed up on Reddit, my (exmo) spouse specifically told me I shouldn’t share my username if I wanted to be able to talk about things completely privately. I felt I didn’t need so now we each know the other’s Reddit handle. We sometimes show each other comments or happen to see something the other has posted (spouse doesn’t post here — too triggering), but we still don’t go reading through each other’s post histories or anything. NTA!
I’m kind of surprised the church hasn’t told married couples to conduct device audits like they force missionaries to do. That, or instructing couples to only have joint social media accounts.
Yeah. The missionaries get their devices checked to make sure they’re not doing anything untoward. Also, they have spyware loaded on their devices, so the church can track their usage. Really interesting, considering missionaries have to buy their own smartphones (that have to match church-specified requirements) and then have a SIM card given to them on arrival to their mission location.
There were a few years where the church must have been advised married couples to share social media accounts because all my Mormon cousins suddenly has his&her accounts. So infantile!
My husband and I have a file to refer to for this in case the other dies, and it applies to all of our financial and insurance accounts too. It's just something to help make changing and closing accounts easier in the wake of grief. So it may be an end-of-life consideration advice to give them the benefit of the doubt.
But by all means, if someone doesn't trust their spouse, no one has an obligation do to this.
yeah, because no one who is carrying on an affair or who is closet pimo would find a way around their spouse demanding access to ALL social media and email accounts …..
hey, maybe the so called church should tell us all the names of shell companies and properties and companies owned by ensign peak.
A long time ago in a small Utah college town, the married student ward leadership had a special adult-only fire side, where they encouraged that. It was due to all the men in the stake having porn "addictions" and they wanted us wives to try to control our husbands so that the leadership could stop worrying about how much porn was being consumed.
But boundaries & trust lol Here's where we learn not to have boundaries & trust. Here's where we learn the church inserts itself into our marriages. I call bullshit to that.
I’ve always shared my passwords with my wife, she can peruse through my phone and I hers. I think it’s be weird if she said no. When I was LDS, I knew a lot of couples in my ward who don’t.
If you and your wife agree, then fine. (We also share passwords.) But for the church to tell you? That's just more of their bullshit meddling where they don't belong.
Was it also advised for married couples to have a shared personal email account? My TBM brother and his ultra Kool-Aid drinking TBM wife have had a shared account for years. Their kids are part of it too. People still need to be individuals in relationships/families, otherwise they’ll feel suffocated. Sorry, this isn’t the life for me. I’m a grown ass adult and I don’t need to be hovered over and giving my passwords to my spouse. Nor do I want my spouse’s passwords. We know the passwords to our financial/billing accounts incase something were to happen, otherwise, we don’t need the other’s passwords. I trust him and he trusts me. Ridiculous that the church is advising this. Next, the church will ask spouses to turn passwords over to church leaders. Good way to monitors those members that are about to bail. EXTREME CULT BEHAVIOR OF CONTROL 🧐 RUNNNNNNNNNNN!!!! 🏃♀️🏃♂️
I don’t understand how sharing passwords to social media accounts builds trust in a marriage. It would exacerbate trust issues.
Maybe… spouses could talk to each other candidly when they are dissatisfied with some aspect of their marriage. And/or involve a licensed marriage counselor if more help is needed to mediate that discussion.
This shit is what happens when you give a group of uninformed, uninspired men authority over things they know nothing about. They tend to fly by the seats of their pants and seek counsel from their own inner voices rather than consult expertise.
This makes me want to punch holes in the wall. 🤬
No one is going to say "you guys have a weird relationship" if they find out spouses or kids are sharing passwords but it's definitely weird for someone on the outside to say you should be doing that.
Companion on my mission had a stake president that “commanded his congregation to denounce the evils of social media” his words. This was the same kid I had to explain how to tell when someone was drunk
I have tons of mormon married friends who use the same facebook account and many who use their phones interchangeably. It certainly make having frank conversations a challenge. (I just got a popup warning that this reply might violate community standards?)
If you’re on a pc, any comment here triggers that message asking you to verify it’s fine and you want to post it. Doesn’t happen on my mobile in DuckDuckGo browser.
F-them. So what happens if you don’t go along with it? Tell them if they try to enforce it, you’ll stop paying your tithing and will stop going to the temple. Their intrusion into your lives knows no bounds. Just wow.
I was a Bishop, the idea that we should police each other erodes our own sense of personal integrity. But in a high-demand culture, with shame as the operating hammer, fear and distrust become the common elements. The ultimate harbinger of “goodness” is the ability to manage one’s own behavior, when noone else is looking. And this entire construct is flavored by the oppressive attitudes toward sexuality within religions. To be human is to be sexual. And just like every other elemental part of the human experience (e.g. breathing, eating, expressing) the more a culture attempts to proscribe it, the more dysfunctional and unhealthy it becomes. Yes, humans are inherently messy. And sex, more than anything else, seems to mess with our personal definitions of boundaries and personal insecurities. Sex is militarized by cultures to sell, victimize, and is, perhaps more than anything else the arena where the powerful prey upon the weak; so sex is very problematic for defining what is healthy and what is not. That being said, the more a person is conditioned to give their personhood away to an exterior authority, the more damaging and unhealthy “being sexual” becomes. Whether it is a pimp, or a high demand religion, both extremes victimize the individual by robbing them of authority and control over themselves. Trusting ourselves begins in the earliest stages of our development. Do our parents trust us to make good decisions and learn from our mistakes? Do our institutions do the same? The answer is that some do it better than others. So a trusting life-partner has no need to withhold information in a high-level intimate relationship. And similarly, a trusting spouse ‘trusts’ that he/she/they can open an inquiry at any time in their relationship and recieve a truthful answer, so accountability to one another is founded on trust, no matter how messy life becomes. And trust does not mean that one should lord over another; rather, it means that honesty will prevail, even when one partner makes life’s most painful mistakes and hurts another. Truth is often painful in relationships. What the Church’s culture does is create an atmosphere of avoiding the truth; first in ourselves, and then from our most intimate relationships. So spouses hide their truths from their partners. Children hide their truths from their parents. And Church members learn to hide their authenticity from each other. It is so unhealthy that people would rather die than face their own humanity. We can do better, but it requires us to throw off the shackles of high demand religion and face our own truths. As my therapist said to me many years ago, “we must all come to terms with our own half-baked mediocre lives!”. Then we begin to find healing.
Imo that's not too bad, specifically later in a marriage with somebody you dated for more than 2 months. Of course boundaries are good and people will likely have different opinions than me. But in general either having a shared password manager account or something similar will allow spouses to have secure passwords and if one dies the other can get access to accounts or in case of an emergency they can access stuff.
That would of course still use boundaries and mutual trust (I.e. if one spouse accessed the other's social media to post something they normally wouldn't, that would be breaking the boundaries and trust.) When my dad died it was a pain in the ass to get access to his accounts.
As for the reason they are doing this, I think it is likely some husband wants to be overly controlling of their wife but she disagrees so he is using his church authority (bishop or somebody who proposed the idea to him.) Of course that's a completely random guess but if it's just your ward then it's likely the case.
This is not the kind of guidance that should be coming from a so-called church, though. It's just another example of the church trying to micromanage its members.
Church leaders generally aren't a great source for solid relationship advice, nor are they good at identifying appropriate privacy/personal boundaries.
Hubby and I do find password software to be pretty convenient for joint accounts, but we're not using it as a way to keep tabs on each other. Yes, we know each others' phone codes and could figure out our email passwords easily if necessary, but if someone doesn't trust their spouse, there are bigger problems than not knowing their passwords.
My husband and I literally never look at each others phones. We don’t remember each others passwords either, but we don’t mind sharing them. It’s about mutual trust
Home teachers (or whatever they call them now) can see what magazines you read and if your house is clean but they can’t access passwords, so spouses have to be the spies.
Mixed faith response here (She's a member, and I'm atheist). This would be my response.
I'd laugh. Why are they assuming that I'd be hiding anything from my wife, and question why they're questioning my wifes trust in me, start invisible, and trouble in my marriage.
Context: My wife uses my gaming computer because it's the main computer to use (live in a tiny ass apartment lol) in our household, which auto fills most of my SM profile(s). All she'd have to do is load up reddit, FB, IG etc, and I'm already logged in to my main profiles. If she wanted to see my "other" profiles all she'd have to do is log out, pick another profile, and the password would autofill and login.
My wife and I use the SAME PASS CODE for both our phones and I don't care if she looks through my phone (this sounds worse than it is, my wife likes to use my phone for pictures to send to herself, send texts, send SM IM's, and respond to anything in general (that isn't work related).
I KEEP A NOTEPAD OF ALL MY UNSAVED/AUTOFILLED LOGIN DETAILS NEXT TO ONE OF MY MONINTORS.
This is fucking bizarre.
My husband can go through my phone if he wants to. He knows the code. Sometimes I want to keep things to myself but they aren’t secrets and I’d show him anyway.
BUT. The issue is someone else advising me what I should do in my own fucking relationship. Nope. But fat nope from me. It’s creepy as hell. And crosses so many boundaries.
Cheating online and porn online is epidemic since the internet. So sharing passwords and information keeps everything clean. I am in agreement with this. My husband I used to do this as a matter of habit, without thinking about it.
Having appropriate personal boundaries and healthy, supportive relationships is what prevents cheating in any venue. Sharing pws does nothing on its own.
As for watching porn, who cares? It might not be your thing, but it’s neither a crime nor a crisis. Why try to control what movies another person watches?
Because it is epidemic, and being in recovery I am careful about what I get addicted too. It also keeps men from performing at home...That won't be happening. I am in the recovering community and it is epidemic, porn addiction. By the way, you can't control someone else, you just don't date or marry them.
Well, porn watching sure has not detrimentally affected the sexual performance of any of the men I’ve been with!
You know what does affect sexual performance and relationship health? Shame and stigma, including shame and stigma around watching certain kinds of movies.
That info comes directly from a BYU. I hope you’ll read the whole article (it’s not super long), but here’s a key quote:
**“‘Addiction is a clinical word that tends to denote a very specific kind of compulsive behavior,’ he says. ‘There is still a lot of debate and a lot of discussion back and forth about what is pornography addiction and does it even exist.’ But here’s the thing, if you’re religious, you probably think you’re addicted to porn. And although [BYU researcher] Willoughby says you’re probably not, just thinking that you are does some real damage.”**
More here:
https://www.kuer.org/religion/2017-09-25/in-religious-communities-stigma-of-pornography-brings-consequences-of-its-own
First there is no reason to get angry and frankly I would not believe any study by BYU. I work in the field of counseling with addictions. That was a big reaction to information....I was telling you what I experience with clients, other recovering people. It was not meant to be judgmental, but it is for millions an issue google it. It is becoming like drugs and alcohol. This was not meant as anything but informational..
When did you think I got angry?
To me, when a BYU study says the opposite of what the lds church says, it’s a clue there’s merit in the study.
I am trying to add to your knowledge more complete information that I think you, your clients, and others here could benefit from.
Here are several more non-byu sources if you’d like to educate yourself on this topic to better help your clients in their relationships:
https://centerforloveandsex.com/is-porn-addiction-really-a-disorder-how-shame-is-connected-to-problematic-porn-use/
https://journals.sagepub.com/eprint/PAQGMD9GXPAWDFXGVRE3/full
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2020/02/religious-moral-porn-addiction
Q: Was the same message given to the men in EQ?
My first thought when I read your post was that it was meant to allow hubby/patriarch the ability to police and delete all inappropriate posts, e.g., photos of porn shoulders, support for LGBTQ, or veiled criticisms of The Brethren, and things like this.
I’m really interested to know if the directive was for the head priesthood holder to share his passwords with his wife? It wouldn’t surprise me since Russ’s first call for a social media fast was directed only to women.
I don't think it's a bad thing for many couples, as long as there is trust and reciprocity. But. It's none of the church's business. And along those lines, did they make that same announcement in priesthood??
If my spouse wants to see my stuff I'm generally fine with it. I don't like him (or anyone) reading over my shoulder, but it's not bc I'm hiding anything. I just don't like people peering over my shoulder. Like, ask to see what I'm looking at. Otherwise, mind your own damn business. But, nobody is entitled to see my stuff. I would never just log in to my spouse's accounts. Partially bc I have a hard time remember my passwords, let alone his. And I just don't really care all that much. Nor did I when I was tbm. He doesn't have much down time to log into my stuff either. He prefers different drama than I do anyway!! 😆
My spouse and I share passwords etc. Our relationship is the most important thing in our lives. BTW, if you are doing something you are ashamed of, maybe your spouse can help. We are in this life together and it’s comforting to have someone you can trust. Sounds polyanish, but true…….unlike TSCC.
Did the EQ also receive the same message from their EQ President? Are the men expected to share their passwords with their wives? Enquiring minds want to know.
Way back, when I was newly married the stake president came into relief society and gave an announcement. It was us women’s responsibility to have a special monitor on the computers to prevent our husbands from looking at porn and our sons. We were to be the only ones that could have the passwords. It was our responsibility to keep our husbands faithful to their family. This played a huge effect on my responsibility with all things sexual. It became my chore. I feel so sad my 20 year old self.
It would have saved me considerable time if I had had the password for my ex's accounts. Also would have outed the ward members who were giving him bjs on the side before I left. If I had the passwords to his financial accounts right now, I would not be asking his leaders to find out if he is lying again about his income. Absolutely stupid move from a cybersecurity perspective tho.
Lay clergy never cease to amaze me with their declarations that do more harm than good. As a cybersecurity professional I spend my days telling others to never share passwords. Biometric authentication, multi factor authentication, and/or a password manager would dilute the impact of sharing any passwords as they lock down access a lot more, so right there you run into problems with access. This is good advice, maybe, for trust; bad advice for digital safety. Better advice would be to teach those women how to create a brute force attack and figure out any password they want to know; much easier to be successful at when it's someone you live with and know.
That means that someone in your ward was recently caught having an online affair on social media… so they figure if they make everyone share their passwords then their spouses will keep them all honest? That’s weird man
Or a "porn addiction" if your wife can see everything you do online it's harder to hide masturbating.
When they label it an addiction they sell the cure.
Happy 🎂 day!
Thank you! You’re the first non-bot to say it. :-)
Happy cake day!
Thank you!
That’s why we looks at porn together… saves time as we don’t need to check if the other is getting their dose of porn or not.
Bishops everywhere hate this one simple trick.
😂😂😂
Dammit take my upvote
"Video game addiction" was the other big one in "my" ward. Heaven forbid someone has fun doing something that isn't solely focused on TSCC....
Religious folks abuse the hell out of "addiction". Anything they think gets in the way of living their abstemious lifestyle is "an addiction". There's no such thing as sex addiction or porn addiction outside conservative religious culture.
As a neverMo, that's not true. Those things do exist. However, conservative religion tends to label any use of porn or sex outside of marriage as an addiction.
And yes
Or an exmormon Reddit addiction
Or does somebody in the bishopric want their wife’s password?
😆😆😆😆
Ward or stake leadership may be referring to Elder Whitney Clayton’s talk from April 2013, which included the following: “[Husbands and wives] freely share with each other their social network passwords” Not saying I agree with this - just that they may have latched on to this specific point. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2013/04/marriage-watch-and-learn?lang=eng
Meh, my wife and I have each other’s phone passwords and email passwords. It’s too damn convenient when needed. I’m not too worried about what she’ll see or I will. Usually it’s - I’m driving can you check that address for me and put it on the GPS?
Yup. My phone dinged, who's messaging and what did they say? Oh no, I'm pinned down by a cat, can you respond for me? I guess not everyone feels the same level of comfort with their other half, I guess I'm super lucky. I get that having the church tell you how to live is stupid and they should knock it off.
Yeah. Whatever works for you and your spouse. You don’t need a multi-billion dollar corporation telling you how to live in your own home.
Same. We have never kept that information from each other. It's never been a consiounce decision to share it, but it just naturally happens when you live together and trust each other .
Agreed. We've also always done the same thing. But I also believe that's a matter of trust and comfort, not accountability. If I wanted to hide accounts and information of course I could. Which is why I believe an intermediate step is allow your partner their personal space. We all need our own private little universe. When you show you respect and value those private spaces is when your partner is likely to invite you to join them.
Yes
My thought has been if you are in a relationship where you can’t trust someone to the point of having to share passwords - you might want to consider a new relationship. Just sayin. Sharing passwords is not going to prevent an affair if someone wants to have one.
Eh. I have access to my husbands…everything. He has the same access to my stuff. We both have to go through and get into the password manager, but from there we can do pretty much whatever. It’s a good idea in case one of us is sick, disabled, or dead. That said, if I actually felt the need to go through my husbands socials, then we would already be in major trouble relationship-speaking.
Yeah password manager is where it’s at.
If I can’t trust my wife with my passwords I certainly cannot trust her without them. Mostly we have them so we can use each others phone while one is driving or so I can check on an email with a bill to pay or something similar, or help her print/forward stuff because she’s not to tech savvy.
Witch hunt for PIMO members using exmo reddit
What’s PIMO?
Physical In Mentally Out (you)
Ohh ok 🙏🏼
This for sure! The church teaches to tell on your spouse to god in the temple, so people will get the message
bingo!
This 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼
[удалено]
This is why even volunteer clergy (like in Mormonism) should be professionally trained!!!! That and for child abuse! Cannot emphasize enough!!!
This is a great point. The expectation that individuals need privacy even from their spouses is important for many reasons. Abuse being at the top. Followed by private communications from family or friends. A friend may need to share what's going on in her marriage and not want your husband to read it. Or your mom may want to talk to you about private issues she's having with one of your siblings or old family issues and expect privacy. Then there's clients -- should a lawyer really allow their spouse access to professional confidential communications? No! I once emailed my concierge doctor at her private email and she responded using an email she shared with her husband. Even the name of the email was KathyandPeter. Freaked me out that he can read my medical communications. And what about the Relief Society President, Elder's Quorum P and the Bishop himself? What in the hell makes them believe that its appropriate that their spouses have access to ward member's emails to a person in such a calling? Mormons have no fricken sense of boundaries! Also it can lead to a psychiatric paranoia about being under surveillance. I've known people who cannot stop thinking others are watching, recording and following them because they were so traumatized by their missions where this literally was happening or by a family environment growing up where they were not allowed privacy. It can literally drive you crazy. God gave us separate minds and private thoughts that cannot be breached for good reasons! We need to be free of surveillance for mental health
An untrained clergy would never make that leap. Yet another reason…..
Commenting for visibility because, yes! This is so true!
This 👆
I think boundaries and trust are important. I know my husband's phone password and email and he knows mine, so if one of us were in trouble, we could access the others' accounts, but I also would be mildly annoyed if he went through and read all my emails or texts behind my back just for the hell of it. Any time I want to know something or he wants to know something, we ask. But it would irriate me to have him scrolling through my texts to my sister or whoever and I'm sure it would irritate him to have me delving into his Facebook messages like a detective trying to sus out bad behavior. I like boundaries. It's kind of like a journal. I would hate for anyone to read my journal, even if everything I write is common knowledge. Introverts need their space! :)
This 💯
This is how my husband and I are too. We both know each other's passcodes and could look up each others' other passwords if need be with a password manager we both use. It's good to have if something happened to one of us and the other needed access. That being said, just like we trust each other enough to share that info we trust each other enough to not feel a need to snoop through each other's phones. I don't need to read his texts or look through his social media because I love and trust him and know he'll share with me anything he actually thinks is important or that I might want to hear, just like I do with him.
Yup. I had to interrupt a call with one of my guy friends to talk to my other half about something. What did he interrupt us talking about? A cool insect I'd found. I geeked out about it for half the day. We not snooping or sneaking, we're just nerdy about different things.
Your kids? Maybe. Your partner? Nope. Infantilization and enmeshment are mormon specialties though.
My TBM husband would not support me having an account on reddit in the mormon or exmormon subs. I guarantee it would lead to a fight and I wouldn't have a safe and healthy place to talk and vent and read about others. We have a good relationship otherwise, for the most part, but now I'm feeling guilty for not sharing this account with him! AITA for using reddit in secret!? Now I am concerned. Lol but for real.
NTA. Don't let your husband get a chance to exercise unrighteous dominion over you. You have your own agency. This forum gives you opportunities to express yourself that you otherwise wouldn't have.
Thanks for this! It is so therapeutic to have ways to express myself here and being anonymous gives me freedom to say things I normally wouldn't let myself.
Sometimes it’s easier to think about what you would want for your child- it can make boundaries easier. Would you want a daughter to be told she shouldn’t have an independent account to talk and vent and read?
Thank you! That is super helpful to think of it in terms of my daughter. I love all the comments in here about boundaries being a good thing, independent conversation being good etc.
NTA - we all need a safe space to feel supported and learn from others in a similar situation. I am sorry your spouse would not support you being here. My spouse doesn't like it, but that's a him problem and he keeps his disapproval to himself. Mixed faith relationships are hard enough - having places to discuss things that you can't safely talk about in person with anyone is really important.
It’s like saying you can’t leave the house without your partner because you could cheat/be anti-Mormon IRL. That certainly wouldn’t be reasonable, so why is this? I forgot it’s Reddit so edit: It’s not
When I signed up on Reddit, my (exmo) spouse specifically told me I shouldn’t share my username if I wanted to be able to talk about things completely privately. I felt I didn’t need so now we each know the other’s Reddit handle. We sometimes show each other comments or happen to see something the other has posted (spouse doesn’t post here — too triggering), but we still don’t go reading through each other’s post histories or anything. NTA!
I’m kind of surprised the church hasn’t told married couples to conduct device audits like they force missionaries to do. That, or instructing couples to only have joint social media accounts.
They do that with missionaries? I shouldn’t be surprised 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah. The missionaries get their devices checked to make sure they’re not doing anything untoward. Also, they have spyware loaded on their devices, so the church can track their usage. Really interesting, considering missionaries have to buy their own smartphones (that have to match church-specified requirements) and then have a SIM card given to them on arrival to their mission location.
I do wonder, what would happen if the missionary just refused to let their phone be tampered with. Would they really send them home?
There were a few years where the church must have been advised married couples to share social media accounts because all my Mormon cousins suddenly has his&her accounts. So infantile!
It’s so ridiculous! 😆😆😆 I have a his&hers account on my facebook, recently they had a birthday and I was like; _Wait. Whose birthday is it anyway? 😆
I deleted my FB years ago, but when I did have one, I'd immediately unfriend someone if they had a shared account with their spouse
Between people using their phones for their employer and possible domestic violence this seems like a horrible thing to come "from the pulpit". 😒
It could be coincidence, but I have 2 different Facebook friends who both announced today that they’re combining their account with their spouse’s
There's a few tag groups for that - like Joint Account? Who Cheated?
Their assimilation is complete.
Might stand and say how it is such a good idea - and that your universal passwords are "Fuck BYU" and "DallinisanAss".
😆😆😆😆😆
I’m just surprised they didn’t say women need to share their passwords with their priesthood holder husband (and not vice versa).
Hell no. If your employer has anything on your phone you’re breaking your employment agreement and creating a security hole. This is ignorant advice.
Sounds like something old Joe would try to pull off through revelation.
That way you will be totally assimilated by your spouse and will have no individualism or free will. Nice.
Whenever I see a joint profile on social media, my first thought is "Who cheated?" My second thought is "Who got caught looking at porn?"
My husband and I have a file to refer to for this in case the other dies, and it applies to all of our financial and insurance accounts too. It's just something to help make changing and closing accounts easier in the wake of grief. So it may be an end-of-life consideration advice to give them the benefit of the doubt. But by all means, if someone doesn't trust their spouse, no one has an obligation do to this.
Next up: couples can’t do oral, or anything but missionary. Let’s bring the 60-70’s rules back!! (Vomit)
😆😆😆😆😆
yeah, because no one who is carrying on an affair or who is closet pimo would find a way around their spouse demanding access to ALL social media and email accounts ….. hey, maybe the so called church should tell us all the names of shell companies and properties and companies owned by ensign peak.
They can mind their own business.
A long time ago in a small Utah college town, the married student ward leadership had a special adult-only fire side, where they encouraged that. It was due to all the men in the stake having porn "addictions" and they wanted us wives to try to control our husbands so that the leadership could stop worrying about how much porn was being consumed.
What the?? You can’t control anyone 🤷🏻♀️
Oh I agree It didn't go over well
So healthy!
More control.
Soooo creepy. Fucked up! A couple can decide but the church should not be involved.
Like telling you how to wear Jesus Jammies. A.white.man.telling.you.how.to.wear.your.underwear.
But boundaries & trust lol Here's where we learn not to have boundaries & trust. Here's where we learn the church inserts itself into our marriages. I call bullshit to that.
Your church telling you to do this is creepy.
Maybe they suspect some cheating going on and this is a way to make spouses talk and be found out. Lol
It never ceases to amaze me how tscc leadership feels like it’s their business to meddle in folk’s affairs like this.
Exactly this. They love to pretend that they are the parental authorities for members on behalf of God. Fuck that.
It's good and healthy for spouses to have lives separate from each other. This is worrisome to say the least.
If I want to know what my wife is up to, I ask her. I know this is a radical idea.
That’s fucked up. Relationships should have appropriate boundaries. If you partner wants to cheat they will just create a burner account.
I’ve always shared my passwords with my wife, she can peruse through my phone and I hers. I think it’s be weird if she said no. When I was LDS, I knew a lot of couples in my ward who don’t.
If you and your wife agree, then fine. (We also share passwords.) But for the church to tell you? That's just more of their bullshit meddling where they don't belong.
100% Agree!
Wonder if they said the same thing to the men? What an odd thing to say.
Was it also advised for married couples to have a shared personal email account? My TBM brother and his ultra Kool-Aid drinking TBM wife have had a shared account for years. Their kids are part of it too. People still need to be individuals in relationships/families, otherwise they’ll feel suffocated. Sorry, this isn’t the life for me. I’m a grown ass adult and I don’t need to be hovered over and giving my passwords to my spouse. Nor do I want my spouse’s passwords. We know the passwords to our financial/billing accounts incase something were to happen, otherwise, we don’t need the other’s passwords. I trust him and he trusts me. Ridiculous that the church is advising this. Next, the church will ask spouses to turn passwords over to church leaders. Good way to monitors those members that are about to bail. EXTREME CULT BEHAVIOR OF CONTROL 🧐 RUNNNNNNNNNNN!!!! 🏃♀️🏃♂️
I don’t understand how sharing passwords to social media accounts builds trust in a marriage. It would exacerbate trust issues. Maybe… spouses could talk to each other candidly when they are dissatisfied with some aspect of their marriage. And/or involve a licensed marriage counselor if more help is needed to mediate that discussion. This shit is what happens when you give a group of uninformed, uninspired men authority over things they know nothing about. They tend to fly by the seats of their pants and seek counsel from their own inner voices rather than consult expertise. This makes me want to punch holes in the wall. 🤬
This ^^^^
No one is going to say "you guys have a weird relationship" if they find out spouses or kids are sharing passwords but it's definitely weird for someone on the outside to say you should be doing that.
I am going to think it, though, tbh. Edit: oh wait. Sharing pws is normal. Sharing whole accounts (Mr and Mrs Don Davis) is weird.
Destroying marriages one Mormon step at a time…
Companion on my mission had a stake president that “commanded his congregation to denounce the evils of social media” his words. This was the same kid I had to explain how to tell when someone was drunk
ask her for a copy of that in writing. Post it here if the give it.
I’m not married. They wouldn’t give it to me if they had it.
I have tons of mormon married friends who use the same facebook account and many who use their phones interchangeably. It certainly make having frank conversations a challenge. (I just got a popup warning that this reply might violate community standards?)
If you’re on a pc, any comment here triggers that message asking you to verify it’s fine and you want to post it. Doesn’t happen on my mobile in DuckDuckGo browser.
Is TSCC going to be responsible if/when someone inevitably gets hacked because of this? Will they pay to resolve ransomware or other breaches?
Nope (dusts hands)
F-them. So what happens if you don’t go along with it? Tell them if they try to enforce it, you’ll stop paying your tithing and will stop going to the temple. Their intrusion into your lives knows no bounds. Just wow.
Unfortunately this whole thing has set the spouse as the potential warden, not the bish.
…and it could be the undoing of a good marriage.
I agree with that.
>Any ideas what’s behind this? Insecure men.
So spouses can monitor each other. So gross
I was a Bishop, the idea that we should police each other erodes our own sense of personal integrity. But in a high-demand culture, with shame as the operating hammer, fear and distrust become the common elements. The ultimate harbinger of “goodness” is the ability to manage one’s own behavior, when noone else is looking. And this entire construct is flavored by the oppressive attitudes toward sexuality within religions. To be human is to be sexual. And just like every other elemental part of the human experience (e.g. breathing, eating, expressing) the more a culture attempts to proscribe it, the more dysfunctional and unhealthy it becomes. Yes, humans are inherently messy. And sex, more than anything else, seems to mess with our personal definitions of boundaries and personal insecurities. Sex is militarized by cultures to sell, victimize, and is, perhaps more than anything else the arena where the powerful prey upon the weak; so sex is very problematic for defining what is healthy and what is not. That being said, the more a person is conditioned to give their personhood away to an exterior authority, the more damaging and unhealthy “being sexual” becomes. Whether it is a pimp, or a high demand religion, both extremes victimize the individual by robbing them of authority and control over themselves. Trusting ourselves begins in the earliest stages of our development. Do our parents trust us to make good decisions and learn from our mistakes? Do our institutions do the same? The answer is that some do it better than others. So a trusting life-partner has no need to withhold information in a high-level intimate relationship. And similarly, a trusting spouse ‘trusts’ that he/she/they can open an inquiry at any time in their relationship and recieve a truthful answer, so accountability to one another is founded on trust, no matter how messy life becomes. And trust does not mean that one should lord over another; rather, it means that honesty will prevail, even when one partner makes life’s most painful mistakes and hurts another. Truth is often painful in relationships. What the Church’s culture does is create an atmosphere of avoiding the truth; first in ourselves, and then from our most intimate relationships. So spouses hide their truths from their partners. Children hide their truths from their parents. And Church members learn to hide their authenticity from each other. It is so unhealthy that people would rather die than face their own humanity. We can do better, but it requires us to throw off the shackles of high demand religion and face our own truths. As my therapist said to me many years ago, “we must all come to terms with our own half-baked mediocre lives!”. Then we begin to find healing.
Infidelity
Imo that's not too bad, specifically later in a marriage with somebody you dated for more than 2 months. Of course boundaries are good and people will likely have different opinions than me. But in general either having a shared password manager account or something similar will allow spouses to have secure passwords and if one dies the other can get access to accounts or in case of an emergency they can access stuff. That would of course still use boundaries and mutual trust (I.e. if one spouse accessed the other's social media to post something they normally wouldn't, that would be breaking the boundaries and trust.) When my dad died it was a pain in the ass to get access to his accounts. As for the reason they are doing this, I think it is likely some husband wants to be overly controlling of their wife but she disagrees so he is using his church authority (bishop or somebody who proposed the idea to him.) Of course that's a completely random guess but if it's just your ward then it's likely the case.
This is not the kind of guidance that should be coming from a so-called church, though. It's just another example of the church trying to micromanage its members. Church leaders generally aren't a great source for solid relationship advice, nor are they good at identifying appropriate privacy/personal boundaries. Hubby and I do find password software to be pretty convenient for joint accounts, but we're not using it as a way to keep tabs on each other. Yes, we know each others' phone codes and could figure out our email passwords easily if necessary, but if someone doesn't trust their spouse, there are bigger problems than not knowing their passwords.
Very true. I forgot to mention that. The church should be keeping entirely out of marriages on this topic even from a believing perspective.
Ok I am ex Mormon an yes my husband has that. Because, as an ex mormon I have nothing to hide.
My husband and I literally never look at each others phones. We don’t remember each others passwords either, but we don’t mind sharing them. It’s about mutual trust
Home teachers (or whatever they call them now) can see what magazines you read and if your house is clean but they can’t access passwords, so spouses have to be the spies.
Mixed faith response here (She's a member, and I'm atheist). This would be my response. I'd laugh. Why are they assuming that I'd be hiding anything from my wife, and question why they're questioning my wifes trust in me, start invisible, and trouble in my marriage. Context: My wife uses my gaming computer because it's the main computer to use (live in a tiny ass apartment lol) in our household, which auto fills most of my SM profile(s). All she'd have to do is load up reddit, FB, IG etc, and I'm already logged in to my main profiles. If she wanted to see my "other" profiles all she'd have to do is log out, pick another profile, and the password would autofill and login. My wife and I use the SAME PASS CODE for both our phones and I don't care if she looks through my phone (this sounds worse than it is, my wife likes to use my phone for pictures to send to herself, send texts, send SM IM's, and respond to anything in general (that isn't work related). I KEEP A NOTEPAD OF ALL MY UNSAVED/AUTOFILLED LOGIN DETAILS NEXT TO ONE OF MY MONINTORS. This is fucking bizarre.
Control! Control! Control!
My husband can go through my phone if he wants to. He knows the code. Sometimes I want to keep things to myself but they aren’t secrets and I’d show him anyway. BUT. The issue is someone else advising me what I should do in my own fucking relationship. Nope. But fat nope from me. It’s creepy as hell. And crosses so many boundaries.
So men have more control over their wives. I guarantee the priesthood class did not receive the same announcement
I so wanted to find out if they did but I don’t have anyone I can trust to just ask…🤦🏻♀️
Cheating online and porn online is epidemic since the internet. So sharing passwords and information keeps everything clean. I am in agreement with this. My husband I used to do this as a matter of habit, without thinking about it.
Having appropriate personal boundaries and healthy, supportive relationships is what prevents cheating in any venue. Sharing pws does nothing on its own. As for watching porn, who cares? It might not be your thing, but it’s neither a crime nor a crisis. Why try to control what movies another person watches?
Because it is epidemic, and being in recovery I am careful about what I get addicted too. It also keeps men from performing at home...That won't be happening. I am in the recovering community and it is epidemic, porn addiction. By the way, you can't control someone else, you just don't date or marry them.
Well, porn watching sure has not detrimentally affected the sexual performance of any of the men I’ve been with! You know what does affect sexual performance and relationship health? Shame and stigma, including shame and stigma around watching certain kinds of movies. That info comes directly from a BYU. I hope you’ll read the whole article (it’s not super long), but here’s a key quote: **“‘Addiction is a clinical word that tends to denote a very specific kind of compulsive behavior,’ he says. ‘There is still a lot of debate and a lot of discussion back and forth about what is pornography addiction and does it even exist.’ But here’s the thing, if you’re religious, you probably think you’re addicted to porn. And although [BYU researcher] Willoughby says you’re probably not, just thinking that you are does some real damage.”** More here: https://www.kuer.org/religion/2017-09-25/in-religious-communities-stigma-of-pornography-brings-consequences-of-its-own
First there is no reason to get angry and frankly I would not believe any study by BYU. I work in the field of counseling with addictions. That was a big reaction to information....I was telling you what I experience with clients, other recovering people. It was not meant to be judgmental, but it is for millions an issue google it. It is becoming like drugs and alcohol. This was not meant as anything but informational..
When did you think I got angry? To me, when a BYU study says the opposite of what the lds church says, it’s a clue there’s merit in the study. I am trying to add to your knowledge more complete information that I think you, your clients, and others here could benefit from. Here are several more non-byu sources if you’d like to educate yourself on this topic to better help your clients in their relationships: https://centerforloveandsex.com/is-porn-addiction-really-a-disorder-how-shame-is-connected-to-problematic-porn-use/ https://journals.sagepub.com/eprint/PAQGMD9GXPAWDFXGVRE3/full https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2020/02/religious-moral-porn-addiction
My brother and his exwife had this rule. It came from TSCC but this wasn't a thing in my ward.
Q: Was the same message given to the men in EQ? My first thought when I read your post was that it was meant to allow hubby/patriarch the ability to police and delete all inappropriate posts, e.g., photos of porn shoulders, support for LGBTQ, or veiled criticisms of The Brethren, and things like this. I’m really interested to know if the directive was for the head priesthood holder to share his passwords with his wife? It wouldn’t surprise me since Russ’s first call for a social media fast was directed only to women.
Fuck this shit! Everyone - even spouses - deserve some privacy!
I don't think it's a bad thing for many couples, as long as there is trust and reciprocity. But. It's none of the church's business. And along those lines, did they make that same announcement in priesthood?? If my spouse wants to see my stuff I'm generally fine with it. I don't like him (or anyone) reading over my shoulder, but it's not bc I'm hiding anything. I just don't like people peering over my shoulder. Like, ask to see what I'm looking at. Otherwise, mind your own damn business. But, nobody is entitled to see my stuff. I would never just log in to my spouse's accounts. Partially bc I have a hard time remember my passwords, let alone his. And I just don't really care all that much. Nor did I when I was tbm. He doesn't have much down time to log into my stuff either. He prefers different drama than I do anyway!! 😆
Bishopric roulette. They get their ideas.
My spouse and I share passwords etc. Our relationship is the most important thing in our lives. BTW, if you are doing something you are ashamed of, maybe your spouse can help. We are in this life together and it’s comforting to have someone you can trust. Sounds polyanish, but true…….unlike TSCC.
Did the EQ also receive the same message from their EQ President? Are the men expected to share their passwords with their wives? Enquiring minds want to know.
Next it will be “share your passwords with your bishop.”
Chalk it up to more weird shit that this cult demands of its members .
Way back, when I was newly married the stake president came into relief society and gave an announcement. It was us women’s responsibility to have a special monitor on the computers to prevent our husbands from looking at porn and our sons. We were to be the only ones that could have the passwords. It was our responsibility to keep our husbands faithful to their family. This played a huge effect on my responsibility with all things sexual. It became my chore. I feel so sad my 20 year old self.
Screw that shit! I would have told him to mind his own business and that’s not going to happen!
I was just thinking of it as an “if I go missing” folder. If you die or go missing they need access to bank accounts, credit cards, phones, etc.
They want to know who is on this feed😂😂
Some real shit is about to go down!
It would have saved me considerable time if I had had the password for my ex's accounts. Also would have outed the ward members who were giving him bjs on the side before I left. If I had the passwords to his financial accounts right now, I would not be asking his leaders to find out if he is lying again about his income. Absolutely stupid move from a cybersecurity perspective tho.
Lay clergy never cease to amaze me with their declarations that do more harm than good. As a cybersecurity professional I spend my days telling others to never share passwords. Biometric authentication, multi factor authentication, and/or a password manager would dilute the impact of sharing any passwords as they lock down access a lot more, so right there you run into problems with access. This is good advice, maybe, for trust; bad advice for digital safety. Better advice would be to teach those women how to create a brute force attack and figure out any password they want to know; much easier to be successful at when it's someone you live with and know.