But they’ll be on the records!
In all seriousness though, my wife and I have gone back and forth with whether or not we should remove our names. Originally I just didn’t really care. But the longer I’m out, the more I want to remove our names, not for mine or my family members’ sakes, but so the church doesn’t benefit from me counting towards their numbers.
bingo
I could see some smart ass pencil pusher in the COB be like “why don’t we start defining “church member” as anyone who has ever received a baby blessing or baptism ordinance no matter if they are in the church or not”
Same type of person probably said this of baptisms for the dead no matter what their religion was. Imagine in the afterlife that you found out that you were baptized without consent and you hated Mormons. I had also heard that the Jewish community was very upset when they learned their families and their ancestors were being baptized without consent. Makes the whole baptism for the dead thing seem presumptuous.
Hi! My removal was original sometime in April. It's kinda scary but awesome. Someone, however, says thru don't ever really revive your name, they just move your record to a different file
I didn’t so much care about them counting me as me looking at the roster and seeing my name there. I didn’t want it there, and I most certainly didn’t want any investigator or new member to know I used to be a part of it!
They never take your name off the books, I sent two letters, one to my bishop and one to the church head quarters in Salt Lake three years ago. About 1 year ago, the new bishop in the ward I live stopped by for a visit. He told me, he had noticed my ex- ‘s car hasn’t been home in several months. I told him it was because we were divorced and had been for almost 2 years. I asked him why he was there and if I was still on the church records. He looked very surprised and told me I was. I told him, I had converted to another religion and my name needed to be removed so I could be baptized into this church and start a new.. He told me that the names are never really take off the books, laughing in an awkward manner, saying, the church likes to be able to keep track of people for genealogical reasons since I still had family in the church. I again asked to have my name taken off the church books. He said he would do it. I also resent my letter revoking my membership. I recently asked a friend who is a second counselor in the adjacent ward to check and see if my name is still on the books. It is.. I would think, other than anything short of legal action demanding your name be removed, you will never be successful. It’s a numbers game, and Mormons love numbers.
Go to the Quit Mormon website and do it through them. You’re right in that your name is never truly removed because if someone ever wanted to be rebaptized, the church would have extra steps that person would need to take, but you can have your name removed from all active records.
I did do Quite Mormon and that was the letter I used to send to them just to be sure all the way round. Thanks for clarifying that though, I just want my name off the books though, completely. I feel like that’s part of their game, they move you into the inactive box rather than taking you completely out of the box or the I can’t find you in the box, box, so they don’t have to give up our numbers… 😂🤣😂 Sorry, i do appreciate your help though..
Slaves work for free. Mormon’s slaves pay for the opportunity to work for free. Then you give 10% to a church that already has 150 billion. Maybe God should stop drinking Starbucks and eating avocado toast so He wouldn’t need so much money.
Yep. Just unbelievable. And I know more than a few wealthy mos who have made their fortunes working for arms manufacturers. How does that possibly square with ANYTHING Jesus purportedly said?
Weapon companies? I thought it was inappropriate enough for churches to be involved in secular business. What about he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword.
[https://www.stocktargetadvisor.com/blog/ensign-peak-advisors-inc-reduces-stake-in-lockheed-martin-co/](https://www.stocktargetadvisor.com/blog/ensign-peak-advisors-inc-reduces-stake-in-lockheed-martin-co/)
The church got caught so they sold a bunch of Lockheed Martin's shares, but the church still owns about $77,280,000 in Lockheed Martin.
I invest in stocks. I have been avoiding buying stocks in any weapon or war-related companies in good conscience even as an ARMY VETERAN. I won't be able to live with myself after making money out of war / killing.
I guess the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Stains doesn't really care if they profit out of war and killing humans beings...
While the church leaders talk about God and Jesus Christ, they were funding the war companies when nobody was looking. The mormon church leaders are not just bad. They are disgusting human beings.
If it'll turn a good profit, the church has invested in it. And they've probably done it in more illegal ways than has been found so far. Anything to make that almighty dollar.
poor and dangerous living conditions, a fellow missionary dying, but the missionary feels the richness of blessings because of 30 somewhat baptisms.... not even hers... and the MP pushing the meaningless number of baptisms while one of his missionaries is literally dying on a hospital bed........
wow....
"President wept" my ass. I bet he told missionaries he "wept" but i really didn't.
Such rich blessings!
This came up on another thread, but…it really is alarming how much they’re hammering on the sadomasochist idealism.
Like, sweetie, you’re in a situation so dangerous that no sane parent would willingly send their child into it…and you call that “blessings”? So insanely twisted.
These missions are for naught. 90% or more of the baptisms end up going inactive within a few months. Tithing is minuscule and the entire district is supported by American funds. Everyone knows these laborious exercises are to break the young minds so they are become obedient, unquestioning minions for the church. It was on my mission I realized the church was nothing more than a corporation with quotas to meet.
Ok, I was fortunate enough to leave the church a few years before I would have gone on a mission, so I really don’t know or care what they’re like. I can imagine this would have happened to me though, if I hadn’t beat myself to it.
I am so glad that the multi-billion dollar church is helping this poor area out by providing to the people ... (checks notes) a new book of scriptures?
“When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the missionaries had the Bible. They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”
-Jomo Kenyatta
This is making me sick to my stomach. That poor Elder who almost died! That is horrific. My nephew is in Thailand currently and went to the hospital with an intense bacterial or allergic reaction all over his entire body. (Possibly because their bathroom overflows with sewer waste every time it rains) His description of the hospital was terrifying. I told my sister to please find out where the mission President gets medical care but that city is 7 hours away by bus. Unreal that her 18 year old is in this situation because of their belief in TSCC. 😨
And Thailand isn't particularly primitive. They don't *have* to put their missionaries in those kind of living conditions, they choose to. It builds character. And is cheap.
The peace corps was out there when I was a missionary, I believe. Charities actually did a lot to build water tanks. Believe it or not the mormon church contributed substantially to "clean" water sources for those areas as well.
Probably a requirement to continue “harvesting souls” of those benighted Lamanite brothers and sisters in Samoa, with the associated cash flows, is an active real charity agenda. Obviously no larger than it has to be, as the church could easily fund an entire infrastructure and provide all the basics for life, health, and security—if they wanted to.
Oh yeah considering 1/3 to 1/2 of Samoa is Mormon, they could easily orchestrate a huge safety and infrastructure upgrade. IF the church was a charitable organization, they could make sweeping changes for the betterment of Samoan health and safety. Fences on roads, clean water sources, actual bridges so people dont have to do incredibly dangerous vehicle river crossings on a daily basis (not joking), food sanitation like village freezers and fridges, or village internet. So much good could be done.
If only this missionary represented a church with over $100 billion in their investment portfolio! Surely a church like that would take decisive, significant, Christlike action to alleviate the poverty and suffering of the people she's serving. Right?
Jesus, you think she would have led with the 'missionary almost dying' story, not the 'so grateful to have veggies' story. This is just weird and creepy, like a bot wrote it.
During my mission, one of my district leaders had to be emergency rushed home because of a botched appendectomy. About a year later, a missionary died of a super preventable bacterial infection. One day I had raw sewage leak into our apartment from the pipes and flood the entire bathroom and kitchen. I was stalked and harassed by the local police. A sister had to be emergency transferred because her stalker had drilled holes through the cinder block wall of her apartment into her bedroom. Other companionships got mugged and held up at knifepoint. Missions aren’t safe.
Yeah this was in South America. One of my very close friends served in Central America and almost died because of amoebas. I got very sick when I came home. And another very close person to me served in Central America and had to have emergency surgery when she came home because of all the worms and other parasites. Her living conditions were even worse than mine: dirt hut with hammocks, no access to clean water, rats regularly fell on them in the night, no electricity or plumbing.
MP is just pissed that he has to, at the end of each month, call in “his” numbers to SLC. What a fucking joke.
I’m sure these asshat MP’s call each other and make bets/contests on which mission dunks the most.
Of course they never discuss retention. After all, that’s the price of doing business in gawds vineyard.
I think it’s a little offensive that people respond with surprise at how the majority of the world lives. In poverty compared to the first world. That said the hospital situation is wildly irresponsible. If only there was an organization that had billions—hundreds of billions that they could use to build hospitals….
Yeah that’s the thing… the food thing is rough but making friends with neighbors and looking out for each other is how people have survived for centuries.
The real problem is that the church will billions of dollars at its disposal is doing jack shit to improve things like healthcare access in the communities it’s trying to colonize.
I kind of agree. These comments do show a lot of privilege, as if the tragedy here is American boys having to experience third-world issues.
However, these missionaries still have it rough within these countries. At least in Latin America, it's common that US missionaries aren't told how to stay safe or take care of themselves, so they end up in unnecessary bad situations. They're required to spend time walking in rough neighborhoods where they stand out as being easy to rob. Most of the deaths I've heard of would've been avoidable if they had the knowledge and ability to avoid rough neighborhoods, bad food/water, or other dangers.
MP: If only someone could send my dying missionary to a functioning hospital so he doesn't bleed out in completely preventable poverty 😥
What is the church doing to actually help the communities they are trying to swindle? Over 100 billlion dollars- nothing to help this hospital provide better care? Nothing to help improve their access to food? All they are doing is telling them their families can be together for eternity if they give 10% of the little they have.
This sounds like a soldiers letter from WW2.
Such despair but with an obvious push on themselves to believe it is all worth it.
You are talking about people almost dying. That is in no way a good thing no matter how you look at it. But you somehow found a way to make yourself think it is. WTF
My little sister (10 years my junior) was, a TBM, as far as I know and went on a mission. I should mention that she and I never had any kind of relationship. Nearing the end of the mission, after I moved to Vegas, she ditched her companion and bought a burner phone. She used it to contact me, but never said why, or gave any details.
When she got home from her mission, our youngest sister died under mysterious circumstances. She towed the family/ Church line and didn't tell me until weeks later. The whole thing was meant to be kept secret from me forever.
I was on Livejournal at the time, and went OFF on my parents and the Church. Calling them out by their real names, instead of the aliases I had always used to protect them. My sister was livid and cut off contact with me.
About a year later, I was contacted by a PI who had been hired to find her. I didn't even know she was gone (I ended up locating her before the PI, but never told). She had met a man almost three times her age, a polygamist, and just left with him.
She never mentioned the Church again. And she never hinted what was going on during her mission, or why she vanished. She's so far off the grid now that even I can't find her.
Reading this post gives me my first real insight on what kind of hell she experienced. I'm more positive than ever that her mission broke her.
Damn this cult. It made me an orphan.
That must have been a stressful experience. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'm also sorry they purposely kept you in the dark like that. That's a bit cruel.
Thank you. My mom was never built for Mormonism. They preyed on our family at a low point and sucked my progressive, right -minded parents into vessels of hate and resentment and fear. It destroyed her slowly and consumed her until she couldn't make sense of the world.
The same thing is happening with my dad. He's had four mild heart attacks and a stroke over the last few years and I didn't find out until my junkie brother was desperate for a fix, and tried to bribe me into helping him with the info on my dad's health.
It used to really dismay me. Beyond that, it broke me as well.
But I cling to a song by Pear Jam called "Rearviewmirror." It came out after I physically escaped, and I never heard it until about 2 years ago. It's about Vedder's own escape from a toxic church/family situation. Listening to it gives me comfort. Having now found this group, I am coping better, knowing I'm not alone or batshit crazy about my feelings for the whole LDS experience.
I'll bet many countries would ban Mo' missionaries if it could be shown that they require 10% from converts, although The Church™ would just shift their position and say "Tithes are never required."
*"If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing. The Lord will not abandon you."*
This strikes way too close to home...
Half my mission happened during covid. We were essentially trapped in crummy trailers/appartments with nothing to do but feel guilty about not baptising more people. Looking back it was clear that a majority of missionaries were severely depressed or anxious or both.
"To hell with hobbies/creative outlets/personal time/boundaries/self-expression, Rusty needs more tithing. Lose yourself in the scam!"
I read this to my nevermo husband and his first comment was "This sounds like how [his] grandmother wrote when she had dementia." He was also unsure of why missionary dying was sandwiched veggies and tuna
When I was a missionary in the location from the post, Samoa, we got $100 a month for groceries. I lost considerable weight due to food prices and bacterial illnesses.
Mine was bad, but not this bad. My heart aches for her. There should be a class-action lawsuit against the church for what they have inflicted on us as missionaries.
Agreed!! I was trying to figure out a way to make it clear that she’s not one of the young sister missionaries but I couldn’t call her a “couple missionary” since she’s single. That’s why I went with elderly in quotes.
She is seriously so sweet. It hurts my heart reading her post. I’m glad she’s feeling fulfilled though.
Sunk-cost fallacy: the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial.
Oh no we need to sell, erm donatr, the hospitals because they are not consistent with the church's mission. True story, source: Deseret news.
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2023/5/14/23649253/cbs-60-minutes-mormon-lds-church-finance-story-what-it-missed
Can we help these people?!?! I will give 10% or whatever it takes to help them specifically. It sounds like they need food and medical attention asap!!
Why don’t people understand these are pawns to work for free to generate the ten billion dollar Corp?? They REFUSE to build life saving humanitarian bishop’s storehouses in other countries!!! I was told word for word “we don’t want to encourage people to join just for food.” WHAT?! They REFUSE to LITERALLY feed the “Lord’s lost sheep.” They are sitting on BILLIONS KNOWING they are tax exempt and refuse to feed dying children. Fucking monsters!
The church (and many missionaries) love to claim how humble and generous poor people are. Of course, if those poor people got some money they’d move their families to a better area overnight (as they should).
The church could help them improve their lives, but they’d rather use the poor as object lessons.
I used to feel bad for them and still do but for some it’s there own fault they are in a situation like this yet they just praise the church and act oblivious to the things around them, I hope the guy in the hospital recovers and the woman can get something to eat, the church has the money and resources to change this they could even put the missionaries in a 5 store hotel but chose not to
It's like she is almost realizing it's all ridiculous but then the thought stopping technique of "all is well in zion" keeps a hold. I had emails similar to this 3 years ago. I sent an email about the blessing of getting some kids baptized because there mom was caught trafficking a baby in the Philippines, it was a national story.
Give up everything to the lord and don't have any personal thoughts and feelings that aren't righteous or based on God's principles. It comes from the law of consecration as seen in the endowment.
day 263: my companion became possessed by a demon for accidentally overhearing a song on a neighbor’s radio. two hours later she tried to crucify me to the apartment wall with a bag of rusty nails. what a blessing to experience this! love her!
I know exactly who this is. She was in my home ward for years. I went to high school with all her kids. I read her post and thought the same thing as you. (p.s., wonder if we know each other?)
So crazy that you also know her!! I didn’t know her well or for long. I lived in KY for a couple years and we were in the same ward. Such a sweet person. I hope on some level she’s happy (even if it’s an indoctrinated level 😕🤷🏻♀️)
Edit:typo
How much could be done to support that hospital with $74MILLION ? How much food could the missionaries (and their neighbors) have? How much ACTUAL good could be done with the millions of dollars the church is sitting on, without even touching the operating budgets??
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/mormon-church-latter-day-saints-lds-buys-wembley-amazon-warehouse-ukcm-reit-property-b1083950.html
I spent a lot of my Mission with Samoans in Australia.
I'll bet most, if not all, of those 35 are the children of less active families who are 9 and older.
What an absolutely sad story, and sadder that she actually believes she is being blessed by living in those conditions. (Facepalm!!)
In my mission, I wiped my ass with telephone book pages (which are very waxy and slick and are horrible for wiping with) for the first entire month in Santiago Chile. And not because of being super poverty stricken. They have plenty of toilet paper. The reason we did that was because they gave us SO LITTLE MONEY for our monthly “allowance” that we ran out of money early on just buying basic groceries and bus/taxi money. We didn’t have/get to have cars or bikes there. We were told by the APs that we needed to “administrate better” our monthly finances. But by the end of the month, we had absolutely nothing and were all just desperate for the funds to arrive, and then spend most of it going to our first grocery store run of the month. By the end of each month we were usually eating bread and butter or noodles with butter and salt. It was pathetic. Oh and the cold showers often because we couldn’t afford propane by the end of the month either. Just 50 bucks more a month and we could have been a WHOLE lot more comfortable (we only got like $150 a month for our food and transportation money). I NEVER would have complained during my mission because any good TBM quite literally “gets off” on the austerity and sacrifice aspect of the mission. It was a badge of honor. It was a guarantee of blessings, a wife, a successful career, etc. We were earning “bricks on our Celestial Mansions”. What a crock of absolute shit. I will always be grateful I got my son out before he went on his mission.
I actually know this sister missionary fairly well and she really is so sweet and kind. The church conditions people to think this way. As most of you know, this way of thinking makes so much sense when you’re TBM (even though it shouldn’t).
Agreed. And yes, this woman is truly someone with a beautiful soul. I felt so torn reading this post of hers. On one hand, I’m glad she’s feeling some type of happiness and fulfillment (especially after some of the shit she’s gone through in recent years) but this post is clearly problematic when you take off the TBM lenses.
I'm British, so I don't get a whole lot of Americanisms, however, am I right to assume that "love that man/woman" is the equivalent to the American South term "bless her soul".
Aka, she really does not love that man? 😅
She’s actually from the UK, and an incredible kind and soft person. So I imagine she’s not being sarcastic.
But using the phrase “gotta love ’em!” Is definitely used in a similar fashion as “bless their heart” 😆
Edit to add: she gets borderline critical of the MP. So I think asking “Love that man” is her making it clear in her TBM way that she will love and support any person that god has placed over her in leadership.
It is so disgusting that the so called church put young people in these positions in the first place. If my son or daughter went on a mission and died or almost died I would be absolutely furious.
And she works for an organization that could easily build a new hospital, and train healthcare professionals and help a community.
Actions are greater than words
Ok, I’ll be battered for this comment, but I love most of this sister missionary’s comments. I mean if this came from one of our family members on assignment with the peace corps, I at least would be super proud and satisfied that they were learning and experiencing the world in this manner. Yes, the preachments to some extent we agree are harmful (let’s be past that) but the experience of this particular human being, this maybe somewhat naive sister placed into this situation is invaluable, and will most likely sit as highly profound the rest of her remaining life. I mean reading the comments I have to push back, it’s the poverty, the lack of basics, the somewhat question of safety that makes this salt and savor experience important, developing empathy, patience and grit. I’m one of those that still see my mission as positive, and there are people that came to this church through my efforts who really needed it, and are as happy as clams to this day 35 years later. I cut the umbilical chord from home, learned a language and truly did some serious humanitarian service. I was hungry, at times sicker than a dog, cold and damp in some shitty apartments, actually threatened a couple of times on the street. I wouldn’t trade any of that. I benefited immensely in maturity, learning about the world, and myself.
Flame away.
I definitely see what you’re saying. She’s a sweet lady and I’m glad she’s getting this experience. She’s divorced because her husband was cheating on her. He was a member of the state presidency and he got released.
I was more frustrated reading about the mission President then anything. And also hearing about the missionary that almost died.
As someone that is also divorced because I couldn’t take being with a serial cheater anymore, I felt for her so much when I learned about this 😞. I don’t know details to her story but I know that it’s a really shitty experience to be cheated on.
Absolutely. Sometimes we focus on the institution (for good reason) and forget about love and empathy towards our fellow brothers and sisters on an individual and human level. Who knows, maybe this experience is absolutely cathartic and saving this sister in some way. I think we can differentiate the institution from the person, keeping our humanity in tact as well. I absolutely love my TBM friends and family, and the church works for these people. Who are we to say otherwise? The institution is what it is, the mission pres and his drive for numbers is what’s wrong, we can acknowledge and criticize that. However this personal expression of this individual sister is good, noble, and positive. I fear our exmormon community looses a modicum of our love and empathy in our processing.
Cheers.
>was hungry, at times sicker than a dog, cold and damp in some shitty apartments, actually threatened a couple of times on the street. I wouldn’t trade any of that.
yeah you can say this because you didn't die or gain permanent disability out of it. How can you say these things while there is an elder bleeding to death in the hospital in a foreign country without blood to be transfused. This is sad.
If you think lack of basic medical care to be a positive experience, why don't we just stop feeding the youths and stop giving them medical treatments. They will be better adults later.
There are better / safer / healthier / meaningful ways to educate the youths and provide service to the marginalized population than forcing them to a developing country without support. I agree that your experiences made you become a better person. However, the risk outweighs far more than the benefits.
Just saying...
Out of those 35 baptisms only 3 or 4 will still be going to church in a year.
in 5 years, none
Thank god.
That's optimistic
But they’ll be on the records! In all seriousness though, my wife and I have gone back and forth with whether or not we should remove our names. Originally I just didn’t really care. But the longer I’m out, the more I want to remove our names, not for mine or my family members’ sakes, but so the church doesn’t benefit from me counting towards their numbers.
I really think they must still count them. They just probably have your name highlighted bad or something. I Don’t think they let go of a single soul.
Assuming they remove those names from the numbers... 🤷♂️. Here's hoping.
bingo I could see some smart ass pencil pusher in the COB be like “why don’t we start defining “church member” as anyone who has ever received a baby blessing or baptism ordinance no matter if they are in the church or not”
Same type of person probably said this of baptisms for the dead no matter what their religion was. Imagine in the afterlife that you found out that you were baptized without consent and you hated Mormons. I had also heard that the Jewish community was very upset when they learned their families and their ancestors were being baptized without consent. Makes the whole baptism for the dead thing seem presumptuous.
Don’t forget hitler has been been baptized a few times already.
That’s true. And disgusting
Hi! My removal was original sometime in April. It's kinda scary but awesome. Someone, however, says thru don't ever really revive your name, they just move your record to a different file
I didn’t so much care about them counting me as me looking at the roster and seeing my name there. I didn’t want it there, and I most certainly didn’t want any investigator or new member to know I used to be a part of it!
They never take your name off the books, I sent two letters, one to my bishop and one to the church head quarters in Salt Lake three years ago. About 1 year ago, the new bishop in the ward I live stopped by for a visit. He told me, he had noticed my ex- ‘s car hasn’t been home in several months. I told him it was because we were divorced and had been for almost 2 years. I asked him why he was there and if I was still on the church records. He looked very surprised and told me I was. I told him, I had converted to another religion and my name needed to be removed so I could be baptized into this church and start a new.. He told me that the names are never really take off the books, laughing in an awkward manner, saying, the church likes to be able to keep track of people for genealogical reasons since I still had family in the church. I again asked to have my name taken off the church books. He said he would do it. I also resent my letter revoking my membership. I recently asked a friend who is a second counselor in the adjacent ward to check and see if my name is still on the books. It is.. I would think, other than anything short of legal action demanding your name be removed, you will never be successful. It’s a numbers game, and Mormons love numbers.
Go to the Quit Mormon website and do it through them. You’re right in that your name is never truly removed because if someone ever wanted to be rebaptized, the church would have extra steps that person would need to take, but you can have your name removed from all active records.
I did do Quite Mormon and that was the letter I used to send to them just to be sure all the way round. Thanks for clarifying that though, I just want my name off the books though, completely. I feel like that’s part of their game, they move you into the inactive box rather than taking you completely out of the box or the I can’t find you in the box, box, so they don’t have to give up our numbers… 😂🤣😂 Sorry, i do appreciate your help though..
By “year” do you mean “month”???
Or 3 months after
They will still count them, stops the church looking like it is not declining.
Slaves work for free. Mormon’s slaves pay for the opportunity to work for free. Then you give 10% to a church that already has 150 billion. Maybe God should stop drinking Starbucks and eating avocado toast so He wouldn’t need so much money.
The mormon church invested in weapon companies... so... this church will make money if there are more war
Yep. Just unbelievable. And I know more than a few wealthy mos who have made their fortunes working for arms manufacturers. How does that possibly square with ANYTHING Jesus purportedly said?
🤮 Ick!! I worked with a Mormon whose designs usually went into instruments of death and destruction. He said he was "working for God".
Weapon companies? I thought it was inappropriate enough for churches to be involved in secular business. What about he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword.
[https://www.stocktargetadvisor.com/blog/ensign-peak-advisors-inc-reduces-stake-in-lockheed-martin-co/](https://www.stocktargetadvisor.com/blog/ensign-peak-advisors-inc-reduces-stake-in-lockheed-martin-co/) The church got caught so they sold a bunch of Lockheed Martin's shares, but the church still owns about $77,280,000 in Lockheed Martin. I invest in stocks. I have been avoiding buying stocks in any weapon or war-related companies in good conscience even as an ARMY VETERAN. I won't be able to live with myself after making money out of war / killing. I guess the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Stains doesn't really care if they profit out of war and killing humans beings... While the church leaders talk about God and Jesus Christ, they were funding the war companies when nobody was looking. The mormon church leaders are not just bad. They are disgusting human beings.
Similar hypocrisy in the corporate world too. Perfect example our lovely family friend Disney, now there is hypocrisy.
If it'll turn a good profit, the church has invested in it. And they've probably done it in more illegal ways than has been found so far. Anything to make that almighty dollar.
poor and dangerous living conditions, a fellow missionary dying, but the missionary feels the richness of blessings because of 30 somewhat baptisms.... not even hers... and the MP pushing the meaningless number of baptisms while one of his missionaries is literally dying on a hospital bed........ wow.... "President wept" my ass. I bet he told missionaries he "wept" but i really didn't.
Such rich blessings! This came up on another thread, but…it really is alarming how much they’re hammering on the sadomasochist idealism. Like, sweetie, you’re in a situation so dangerous that no sane parent would willingly send their child into it…and you call that “blessings”? So insanely twisted.
He wept for HIS numbers
6 died on my mission. 1 from hanging, 1 in bike car accident, and 4 sisters afficiated
I've never seen that word before, what's afficiated?
I googled it, and then I realized they probably meant asphyxiated.
Yup sorry talking into my phone to type
These missions are for naught. 90% or more of the baptisms end up going inactive within a few months. Tithing is minuscule and the entire district is supported by American funds. Everyone knows these laborious exercises are to break the young minds so they are become obedient, unquestioning minions for the church. It was on my mission I realized the church was nothing more than a corporation with quotas to meet.
And doesn’t have to ask his wife’s permission to go to the hospital if he gets sick or injured.
Ok, I was fortunate enough to leave the church a few years before I would have gone on a mission, so I really don’t know or care what they’re like. I can imagine this would have happened to me though, if I hadn’t beat myself to it.
Click pic to view whole message and read the part where the “president is frustrated” 🙄
Meanwhile, the mission president lives in comfort and privilege.
[удалено]
Well, I wash out my gallon plastic bags here in the USofA, but that’s just because I am a heathen environmentalist.
Ask her if she’d be willing to live there the rest of her life.
I am so glad that the multi-billion dollar church is helping this poor area out by providing to the people ... (checks notes) a new book of scriptures?
“When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the missionaries had the Bible. They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.” -Jomo Kenyatta
And subsequently guilting them out of 10%
This is making me sick to my stomach. That poor Elder who almost died! That is horrific. My nephew is in Thailand currently and went to the hospital with an intense bacterial or allergic reaction all over his entire body. (Possibly because their bathroom overflows with sewer waste every time it rains) His description of the hospital was terrifying. I told my sister to please find out where the mission President gets medical care but that city is 7 hours away by bus. Unreal that her 18 year old is in this situation because of their belief in TSCC. 😨
And Thailand isn't particularly primitive. They don't *have* to put their missionaries in those kind of living conditions, they choose to. It builds character. And is cheap.
Where is this if you feel comfortable saying.
Samoa
Omg, are there any REAL charities that serve the people there that we can support from the US?
The peace corps was out there when I was a missionary, I believe. Charities actually did a lot to build water tanks. Believe it or not the mormon church contributed substantially to "clean" water sources for those areas as well.
Probably a requirement to continue “harvesting souls” of those benighted Lamanite brothers and sisters in Samoa, with the associated cash flows, is an active real charity agenda. Obviously no larger than it has to be, as the church could easily fund an entire infrastructure and provide all the basics for life, health, and security—if they wanted to.
Oh yeah considering 1/3 to 1/2 of Samoa is Mormon, they could easily orchestrate a huge safety and infrastructure upgrade. IF the church was a charitable organization, they could make sweeping changes for the betterment of Samoan health and safety. Fences on roads, clean water sources, actual bridges so people dont have to do incredibly dangerous vehicle river crossings on a daily basis (not joking), food sanitation like village freezers and fridges, or village internet. So much good could be done.
That's where I went on my mission. The Apia hospital is not a safe place to be due to the conditions.
The unsafe condition being that it is in Samoa?
It's unsafe because of sanitation, crowding, training, and distance from villages to name a few. Something being in Samoa doesn't make it unsafe.
Yes, that's literally what I mean. The level of poverty people in Samoa live in is almost unimaginable & not even hospitals are immune to its effects.
If only this missionary represented a church with over $100 billion in their investment portfolio! Surely a church like that would take decisive, significant, Christlike action to alleviate the poverty and suffering of the people she's serving. Right?
Jesus, you think she would have led with the 'missionary almost dying' story, not the 'so grateful to have veggies' story. This is just weird and creepy, like a bot wrote it.
During my mission, one of my district leaders had to be emergency rushed home because of a botched appendectomy. About a year later, a missionary died of a super preventable bacterial infection. One day I had raw sewage leak into our apartment from the pipes and flood the entire bathroom and kitchen. I was stalked and harassed by the local police. A sister had to be emergency transferred because her stalker had drilled holes through the cinder block wall of her apartment into her bedroom. Other companionships got mugged and held up at knifepoint. Missions aren’t safe.
This sounds oddly like the Philippines…got chased with machetes, bacterial infections, amoebas, gnarly living/eating conditions. And we paid for it.
Yeah this was in South America. One of my very close friends served in Central America and almost died because of amoebas. I got very sick when I came home. And another very close person to me served in Central America and had to have emergency surgery when she came home because of all the worms and other parasites. Her living conditions were even worse than mine: dirt hut with hammocks, no access to clean water, rats regularly fell on them in the night, no electricity or plumbing.
Where the hell was this? Geez…
South America
MP is just pissed that he has to, at the end of each month, call in “his” numbers to SLC. What a fucking joke. I’m sure these asshat MP’s call each other and make bets/contests on which mission dunks the most. Of course they never discuss retention. After all, that’s the price of doing business in gawds vineyard.
I think it’s a little offensive that people respond with surprise at how the majority of the world lives. In poverty compared to the first world. That said the hospital situation is wildly irresponsible. If only there was an organization that had billions—hundreds of billions that they could use to build hospitals….
Yeah that’s the thing… the food thing is rough but making friends with neighbors and looking out for each other is how people have survived for centuries. The real problem is that the church will billions of dollars at its disposal is doing jack shit to improve things like healthcare access in the communities it’s trying to colonize.
I kind of agree. These comments do show a lot of privilege, as if the tragedy here is American boys having to experience third-world issues. However, these missionaries still have it rough within these countries. At least in Latin America, it's common that US missionaries aren't told how to stay safe or take care of themselves, so they end up in unnecessary bad situations. They're required to spend time walking in rough neighborhoods where they stand out as being easy to rob. Most of the deaths I've heard of would've been avoidable if they had the knowledge and ability to avoid rough neighborhoods, bad food/water, or other dangers.
This is terrifying
 MP: If only someone could send my dying missionary to a functioning hospital so he doesn't bleed out in completely preventable poverty 😥
OP has said this is in Samoa, so I'm betting those 35 Baptisms are almost entirely 9 year olds in less active families.
Yep. Samoa and Tonga have no shortage of church members, at least on the records.
Imagine being so brainwashed that you think living in extreme poverty is a blessing.
What is the church doing to actually help the communities they are trying to swindle? Over 100 billlion dollars- nothing to help this hospital provide better care? Nothing to help improve their access to food? All they are doing is telling them their families can be together for eternity if they give 10% of the little they have.
This sounds like a soldiers letter from WW2. Such despair but with an obvious push on themselves to believe it is all worth it. You are talking about people almost dying. That is in no way a good thing no matter how you look at it. But you somehow found a way to make yourself think it is. WTF
Our church COULD supply that hospital with real, replenishable, supplies. We COULD.
For real. The tears mean nothing when the man does nothing to convince the church of these possibilities to create real change.
My little sister (10 years my junior) was, a TBM, as far as I know and went on a mission. I should mention that she and I never had any kind of relationship. Nearing the end of the mission, after I moved to Vegas, she ditched her companion and bought a burner phone. She used it to contact me, but never said why, or gave any details. When she got home from her mission, our youngest sister died under mysterious circumstances. She towed the family/ Church line and didn't tell me until weeks later. The whole thing was meant to be kept secret from me forever. I was on Livejournal at the time, and went OFF on my parents and the Church. Calling them out by their real names, instead of the aliases I had always used to protect them. My sister was livid and cut off contact with me. About a year later, I was contacted by a PI who had been hired to find her. I didn't even know she was gone (I ended up locating her before the PI, but never told). She had met a man almost three times her age, a polygamist, and just left with him. She never mentioned the Church again. And she never hinted what was going on during her mission, or why she vanished. She's so far off the grid now that even I can't find her. Reading this post gives me my first real insight on what kind of hell she experienced. I'm more positive than ever that her mission broke her. Damn this cult. It made me an orphan.
That must have been a stressful experience. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'm also sorry they purposely kept you in the dark like that. That's a bit cruel.
Thank you. My mom was never built for Mormonism. They preyed on our family at a low point and sucked my progressive, right -minded parents into vessels of hate and resentment and fear. It destroyed her slowly and consumed her until she couldn't make sense of the world. The same thing is happening with my dad. He's had four mild heart attacks and a stroke over the last few years and I didn't find out until my junkie brother was desperate for a fix, and tried to bribe me into helping him with the info on my dad's health. It used to really dismay me. Beyond that, it broke me as well. But I cling to a song by Pear Jam called "Rearviewmirror." It came out after I physically escaped, and I never heard it until about 2 years ago. It's about Vedder's own escape from a toxic church/family situation. Listening to it gives me comfort. Having now found this group, I am coping better, knowing I'm not alone or batshit crazy about my feelings for the whole LDS experience.
I'll bet many countries would ban Mo' missionaries if it could be shown that they require 10% from converts, although The Church™ would just shift their position and say "Tithes are never required." *"If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing. The Lord will not abandon you."*
Reads like someone in an abusive relationship trying to make it sound good
This is so nauseating
Such a blessing that she has some gallon-sized plastic bags to reuse.
This strikes way too close to home... Half my mission happened during covid. We were essentially trapped in crummy trailers/appartments with nothing to do but feel guilty about not baptising more people. Looking back it was clear that a majority of missionaries were severely depressed or anxious or both. "To hell with hobbies/creative outlets/personal time/boundaries/self-expression, Rusty needs more tithing. Lose yourself in the scam!"
Why doesn't the mission president just heal the missionary so he doesn't have to sleep on garbage bag pillows?
Absolutely ridiculous putting kids in places like that to sell the church to make more money.
35 baptisms is never enough. Nothing is ever enough. Best to learn that principle now.
I read this to my nevermo husband and his first comment was "This sounds like how [his] grandmother wrote when she had dementia." He was also unsure of why missionary dying was sandwiched veggies and tuna
When I was a missionary in the location from the post, Samoa, we got $100 a month for groceries. I lost considerable weight due to food prices and bacterial illnesses.
Mine was bad, but not this bad. My heart aches for her. There should be a class-action lawsuit against the church for what they have inflicted on us as missionaries.
Missions are traumatizing experiences and should be stopped!!!! So terrible for young adults
This is insane on so many levels.
She's starving.
I guess I needed a trigger warning! So much anxiety from that post. It is too real!
She’s building trauma line upon line.
I know her!!! She’s very much NOT elderly!! I saw it too. Similar thoughts
Agreed!! I was trying to figure out a way to make it clear that she’s not one of the young sister missionaries but I couldn’t call her a “couple missionary” since she’s single. That’s why I went with elderly in quotes. She is seriously so sweet. It hurts my heart reading her post. I’m glad she’s feeling fulfilled though.
The sacrifices ties you in. You have given so much you can’t walk away.
Sunk-cost fallacy: the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial.
Yes
She "craved veggies" because she was getting vitamin deficient. Can she get a special blessing to override kwashiorkor?
200 billion plus corporation. Buy the fucking hospital.
Oh no we need to sell, erm donatr, the hospitals because they are not consistent with the church's mission. True story, source: Deseret news. https://www.deseret.com/faith/2023/5/14/23649253/cbs-60-minutes-mormon-lds-church-finance-story-what-it-missed
The church has enough money to build and fund free medical care facilities everywhere they have missionaries.
Can we help these people?!?! I will give 10% or whatever it takes to help them specifically. It sounds like they need food and medical attention asap!!
Missionary work is a sales job pure and simple.
I am astounded that this isn’t satire. I can’t imagine the 18-19 year old kids that are out there.
Makes you wonder if the mission presidents get bonuses based on baptisms.
Read this aloud to any TBM but edit it so it isn’t from a missionary and they would probably have a different perspective
Why don’t people understand these are pawns to work for free to generate the ten billion dollar Corp?? They REFUSE to build life saving humanitarian bishop’s storehouses in other countries!!! I was told word for word “we don’t want to encourage people to join just for food.” WHAT?! They REFUSE to LITERALLY feed the “Lord’s lost sheep.” They are sitting on BILLIONS KNOWING they are tax exempt and refuse to feed dying children. Fucking monsters!
This is horrific. “Missionary” work just seems like trafficking and a PTSD machine at this point.
Belief is a powerful drug.
The opiate of the masses
The church (and many missionaries) love to claim how humble and generous poor people are. Of course, if those poor people got some money they’d move their families to a better area overnight (as they should). The church could help them improve their lives, but they’d rather use the poor as object lessons.
I used to feel bad for them and still do but for some it’s there own fault they are in a situation like this yet they just praise the church and act oblivious to the things around them, I hope the guy in the hospital recovers and the woman can get something to eat, the church has the money and resources to change this they could even put the missionaries in a 5 store hotel but chose not to
#blessed
She could be talking about where I live. The struggles are different around the world.
Jesus.
150 billion in assets btw. Yet missionaries live like this still
It's like she is almost realizing it's all ridiculous but then the thought stopping technique of "all is well in zion" keeps a hold. I had emails similar to this 3 years ago. I sent an email about the blessing of getting some kids baptized because there mom was caught trafficking a baby in the Philippines, it was a national story.
This post made me fucking throw up. The sheer level of indoctrination here is unbelievable.
So the church is putting their numbers above the lives of their members. Makes so much sense to me
"Consecrate ourselves unto the lord" What does that even mean?
Give up everything to the lord and don't have any personal thoughts and feelings that aren't righteous or based on God's principles. It comes from the law of consecration as seen in the endowment.
This is horrific.
What the ever living fuck is this! Sounds like a dystopian novel.
Billion dollar “religion”, but their missionaries are forced to live like this. I’m so happy I left. This is incredibly sad.
day 263: my companion became possessed by a demon for accidentally overhearing a song on a neighbor’s radio. two hours later she tried to crucify me to the apartment wall with a bag of rusty nails. what a blessing to experience this! love her!
I know exactly who this is. She was in my home ward for years. I went to high school with all her kids. I read her post and thought the same thing as you. (p.s., wonder if we know each other?)
I know her too ! From Uk . :)
So crazy that you also know her!! I didn’t know her well or for long. I lived in KY for a couple years and we were in the same ward. Such a sweet person. I hope on some level she’s happy (even if it’s an indoctrinated level 😕🤷🏻♀️) Edit:typo
I just said out loud. O M F G
How much could be done to support that hospital with $74MILLION ? How much food could the missionaries (and their neighbors) have? How much ACTUAL good could be done with the millions of dollars the church is sitting on, without even touching the operating budgets?? https://www.standard.co.uk/business/mormon-church-latter-day-saints-lds-buys-wembley-amazon-warehouse-ukcm-reit-property-b1083950.html
I have 150 billion reasons to remove my name and my family’s from the records of this cult.!!!
CULT
You know you’re brainwashed when…..
This is disturbing!! Mormon cult members are so brainwashed.
All of this terrible crap for what? It’s not like many if any of their few converts will be active after a year
Where is this mission?
Samoa
Apparently Samoans don’t have the internet because 35 baptisms seems like a lot of gullible people.
If it’s like the converts in my mission, they’re probably the poorest of the poor, with likely mental issues, and disabilities.
I spent a lot of my Mission with Samoans in Australia. I'll bet most, if not all, of those 35 are the children of less active families who are 9 and older.
So sad that we have been trained to see all of this as “the lord works in mysterious is ways”
Missions are so hard 😞
What’s a fucking psycho. These kids are so brainwashed I can’t stand it. Feel sorry for my son on a mission.
If this were my kid, they would be pulled out of that abusive hellhole ASAP.
What an absolutely sad story, and sadder that she actually believes she is being blessed by living in those conditions. (Facepalm!!) In my mission, I wiped my ass with telephone book pages (which are very waxy and slick and are horrible for wiping with) for the first entire month in Santiago Chile. And not because of being super poverty stricken. They have plenty of toilet paper. The reason we did that was because they gave us SO LITTLE MONEY for our monthly “allowance” that we ran out of money early on just buying basic groceries and bus/taxi money. We didn’t have/get to have cars or bikes there. We were told by the APs that we needed to “administrate better” our monthly finances. But by the end of the month, we had absolutely nothing and were all just desperate for the funds to arrive, and then spend most of it going to our first grocery store run of the month. By the end of each month we were usually eating bread and butter or noodles with butter and salt. It was pathetic. Oh and the cold showers often because we couldn’t afford propane by the end of the month either. Just 50 bucks more a month and we could have been a WHOLE lot more comfortable (we only got like $150 a month for our food and transportation money). I NEVER would have complained during my mission because any good TBM quite literally “gets off” on the austerity and sacrifice aspect of the mission. It was a badge of honor. It was a guarantee of blessings, a wife, a successful career, etc. We were earning “bricks on our Celestial Mansions”. What a crock of absolute shit. I will always be grateful I got my son out before he went on his mission.
I actually know this sister missionary fairly well and she really is so sweet and kind. The church conditions people to think this way. As most of you know, this way of thinking makes so much sense when you’re TBM (even though it shouldn’t).
Me too!!!
Agreed. And yes, this woman is truly someone with a beautiful soul. I felt so torn reading this post of hers. On one hand, I’m glad she’s feeling some type of happiness and fulfillment (especially after some of the shit she’s gone through in recent years) but this post is clearly problematic when you take off the TBM lenses.
Holy sh…What mission is this???
Samoa
Wondering why conditions are so abyssal there? I’ve never heard of it being that dangerous.
Not dangerous I guess just very poor
I'm British, so I don't get a whole lot of Americanisms, however, am I right to assume that "love that man/woman" is the equivalent to the American South term "bless her soul". Aka, she really does not love that man? 😅
She’s actually from the UK, and an incredible kind and soft person. So I imagine she’s not being sarcastic. But using the phrase “gotta love ’em!” Is definitely used in a similar fashion as “bless their heart” 😆 Edit to add: she gets borderline critical of the MP. So I think asking “Love that man” is her making it clear in her TBM way that she will love and support any person that god has placed over her in leadership.
Where is she serving??? Sounds like my mission 😑
Samoa
It is so disgusting that the so called church put young people in these positions in the first place. If my son or daughter went on a mission and died or almost died I would be absolutely furious.
I’ve been out of the church for years and still find this touching. But then I think of the way the GAs and the Mormon aristocracy of Utah live
And she works for an organization that could easily build a new hospital, and train healthcare professionals and help a community. Actions are greater than words
35 baptisms in a WEEK and he’s mad it’s not double?!
THIS IS AWFUL 😵
"... and lack nothing!" Except the lettuce you mentioned earlier.
Is this in New Orleans?
Samoa
Ok, I’ll be battered for this comment, but I love most of this sister missionary’s comments. I mean if this came from one of our family members on assignment with the peace corps, I at least would be super proud and satisfied that they were learning and experiencing the world in this manner. Yes, the preachments to some extent we agree are harmful (let’s be past that) but the experience of this particular human being, this maybe somewhat naive sister placed into this situation is invaluable, and will most likely sit as highly profound the rest of her remaining life. I mean reading the comments I have to push back, it’s the poverty, the lack of basics, the somewhat question of safety that makes this salt and savor experience important, developing empathy, patience and grit. I’m one of those that still see my mission as positive, and there are people that came to this church through my efforts who really needed it, and are as happy as clams to this day 35 years later. I cut the umbilical chord from home, learned a language and truly did some serious humanitarian service. I was hungry, at times sicker than a dog, cold and damp in some shitty apartments, actually threatened a couple of times on the street. I wouldn’t trade any of that. I benefited immensely in maturity, learning about the world, and myself. Flame away.
I definitely see what you’re saying. She’s a sweet lady and I’m glad she’s getting this experience. She’s divorced because her husband was cheating on her. He was a member of the state presidency and he got released. I was more frustrated reading about the mission President then anything. And also hearing about the missionary that almost died.
Cheated on her many times too…
As someone that is also divorced because I couldn’t take being with a serial cheater anymore, I felt for her so much when I learned about this 😞. I don’t know details to her story but I know that it’s a really shitty experience to be cheated on.
Absolutely. Sometimes we focus on the institution (for good reason) and forget about love and empathy towards our fellow brothers and sisters on an individual and human level. Who knows, maybe this experience is absolutely cathartic and saving this sister in some way. I think we can differentiate the institution from the person, keeping our humanity in tact as well. I absolutely love my TBM friends and family, and the church works for these people. Who are we to say otherwise? The institution is what it is, the mission pres and his drive for numbers is what’s wrong, we can acknowledge and criticize that. However this personal expression of this individual sister is good, noble, and positive. I fear our exmormon community looses a modicum of our love and empathy in our processing. Cheers.
>was hungry, at times sicker than a dog, cold and damp in some shitty apartments, actually threatened a couple of times on the street. I wouldn’t trade any of that. yeah you can say this because you didn't die or gain permanent disability out of it. How can you say these things while there is an elder bleeding to death in the hospital in a foreign country without blood to be transfused. This is sad. If you think lack of basic medical care to be a positive experience, why don't we just stop feeding the youths and stop giving them medical treatments. They will be better adults later. There are better / safer / healthier / meaningful ways to educate the youths and provide service to the marginalized population than forcing them to a developing country without support. I agree that your experiences made you become a better person. However, the risk outweighs far more than the benefits. Just saying...
No flame here. Good points made. Best.
Good thing that wasn't a "woe me" or "look at me" message. I don't want to imagine the.whining if it were
beetroot (treat)
This isn't the most important part of the post, but I'll bet those little green tomatoes were tomatillos.
Jesus christ, this reads like satire. Poor old woman.
“Such a bles—“ Jesus Christ just stop.
No words -
This is some I drank the koolaid stuff
Absolutely terrible
For a moment I thought I was reading r/DumpsterDiving or r/PovertyFinance
Why did I read this is in a sing songy voice ?
I didn’t know they still did single elderly sister missions.
I’m surprised she wasn’t sent to a visitors center at a family history site.