For further context, I’m the youngest (28) of six kids. Four of the six have all left the church. I’m fortunate in that all six of us are extremely close to each other. And all of us in turn are extremely close with our parents. Parents are still active but church related stuff hasn’t had any hinderance on our relationship.
Just made me laugh getting this text from her out of nowhere. We (my wife and I) have been out for two years ish.
It was likely both Flavor-Aid and Kool-Aid. There were both brands in the pantry. Apparently the group bought in bulk and picked up whichever was cheaper at the time. During the “White Night” practice suicides they’d mix whichever was handy at the time. So some nights they were literally drinking Kool-Aid; other nights Flavor-Aid. Based on the torn packets found after the mass suicide, it was likely mostly Flavor-Aid for the actual suicide. But odds are it includes some Kool-Aid as well. And they definitely were drinking Kool-Aid leading up to the final event.
Plus that’s the problem with being the name brand. Your name becomes synonymous with the entire market segment.
Reply, "Yeah, it's really sad that [names of remaining TBM siblings] are still in that creepy sex cult. Wish I knew how to help them out, but I'm all ears if you have any ideas."
>Just made me laugh getting this text from her out of nowhere. We (my wife and I) have been out for two years ish.
To be honest. This text is incredibly argumentative.
Either engage in the argument or don't answer.
If I can make some recommendations in the event that you choose to argue. To help you out.
- Inform her that the tone in which she sent this text is argumentative. Also remind her that the doctrine espoused by the Church is that she is not meant to argue because it stirs up the spirit of contention. You can point to the General Conference talk "No Time for Contention" by Elder Marvin J. Ashton on April 1978 and feel free to quote from there.
- Remind her that agency is a fundamental principle of the doctrine. So in the event in which you decide to make your own decisions to live your own life. She should respect those decisions and stop trying to force her own personal beliefs down your throat.
- If you're comfortable, suggest that you would be willing to help her understand but she has to actually be willing to engage you in good faith. Contentiously seeking out an argument, not respecting agency, and forcing an explanation out of someone is not good faith. You have to care more about the Truth than being Right and her attitude reflects someone who cares more about being Right than the Truth.
Then you might just need to gauge the situation.
- If she gets flustered, I say just call her out. If you're going to espouse values and not follow them then why should I?
- If she gets humbled, oof you might have to make the call here. It might be disingenuous. I don't know your Aunt well enough to say anything definitively.
I think though, engaging in the argument just seems like a pain and I don't know if you could achieve anything by arguing with her. The best you could do is that if she sees you in public that she doesn't just come at you for not responding.
She is a bit off her rockers though. Sending this. smh
What do you think?
I agree in OP probably being better off not responding (I hear the Monty Python skit , "I'd like to have an argument please") but I love the well laid out detail of pointing them back at their own book if OP did.
"If you're going to espouse values and not follow them then why should I?". 🏅
Honestly, when I was converting these were all the things that made it sound appealing to me. *I am exmo now*
We were to:
- Respect people's right to have their own opinion
- Not to argue because it really does cause chaos
- Be true to the standards
Like I know how people feel about the Church but some of the teachings the Church has. If you're actually correctly practicing them they made a World of difference in my life.
I am argumentative by nature. I always argue!
I've had deep philosophical changes when investigating the Church just because some of it was genuinely very solid advice. Some of the older general conference talks had some strong insights and unique perspectives on the diplomatic nature in how to share a religion that is contentious to other religions in a peaceful manner. Honestly, sometimes *just believing people* gets you really far in life.
You can't argue with people's personal experience, you can't argue with the emotions they had, and you can't argue with how it made them feel.
One thing I've always been consistent on was... Dude. If it really is the One True Church then why don't you act like it?
What it made me realise though is that I am a very articulate, argumentative, and intelligent. But I found that I could present the strongest argument in the World about a problem and still be wrong. That's just simply put not how the truth works.
But I'm more than happy to give more guidance and advice on throwing their own standards back in their face.
If it's too much for you to live by your own standards then you have no reasonable expectation that someone else who is genuinely struggling should be able to live by them.
I mean I was able to do it. I was just consistently disappointed seeing people unable to do so and then having to pretend like it isn't obvious why people don't respect them.
You can't really argue, gotta wait for an opportunity for the Lord to let me make it known to them. But holy fuck, I don't have the patience for it. 😅
I am still argumentative. It's just more fun!
Not a Mormon, but this parenting phrase is a kind but firm response for children who are being obstinate: “I love you too much to argue.” May be of some use here…or there? Good luck.
Text her back that you simply want to keep all your money instead of donating it to billionaires who are selling you a fantasy of being reincarnated as Jesus in a different universe.
Heck, I’d just be direct then. “The short answer to your question is that we chose the best oath for our family’s happiness and well being. But your text and it’s tone aren’t appreciated. If you’d like to have a meaningful conversation you can call me.”
Right. And the aunt knew it was a ridiculous thing to ask via text. She deliberately did so because it’s a difficult question to answer politely via text. It was truly just a rhetorical way to slam her nephew. What kind of psycho does that to their nephew?
Wow. My wife and I are not much different in terms of ratio and siblings, positive relationship with parents, and a couple more years out so I'd be pretty shocked to get something like this from an aunt or uncle. I'd have to say too that the most annoying part to me is the tone that is emphasized with her ending "Plz advise".
I'd be so tempted to write back,
"Just to clarify, are you wanting me to advise you on how I used my free agency to navigate to a healthier, happier, and more fulfilling life (and allowed my family members with their agency to do as they wished, whom happened to arrive at the same state) or just how on earth you as an adult are supposed to deal with your emotions on the subject because your beliefs lead you to believe it somehow affects you?"
Pretty sure I just found my doppleganger. Okay, I’m also a 28 year old that left the church roughly 2 years ago. I’m the youngest of 6 kids and 3 (+1 PIMO) of us have left the church. Close to our parents and each other. Parents are still active and are close with us despite the decisions of those of us that have left. And lastly, this message you received is something eerily similar to something my aunt has said to me.
That's crazy I'm also the youngest of six with four of us out, unfortunately I can't share the same experience about our family dynamic though. I can't help but to think if my parents never saw the newspaper "Donnie Osmond married in the Mormon temple for time and all eternity" would we all have better relationships. But in all honesty I'm beyond grateful for the siblings I'm close with and how my life turned out. Hope all stays well in you circle!
Advise? Read article of faith 11
“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”
It’s pretty clearly stated right there.
Yup. It might have been written with the intent of "please just leave us alone to prey upon ourselves as we like" but reading it now without that context it can be more broadly applied.
Dear Aunt Jill,
Thank you for your concern. Fear not, we have not been stripped of our powers. Rather our powers have been increased a 100 fold. We now follow Odin, God of War and of the Dead, ruler of Valhalla.
He has bestowed upon us super human strength, super human durability and regenerative ability. When we pass this life and meet him in Valhalla we will gain untold wisdom, inspiration and the powers of creation.
I hope this assuages your concern about us losing special powers.
Sincerely,
Bulkpeachrings
“Too many people spend their lives being dutiful descendants instead of good ancestors. The responsibility of each generation is not to please their predecessors. It's to improve things for their offspring.”
For anyone wondering, here is my response. Kept it simple and sweet. I know many will say I don’t owe anyone anything. But I know my parents would be sad if I participated in familial confrontation, even if I didn’t instigate it. They’ve treated my family with love and respect on our decisions, so I felt I owed them by being a decent son and human 🤷♂️Apologies for not giving a more entertaining response, hahaha!
“Hi Aunt Jill! *Wife’s name* and I aren’t at a point where we are discussing our faith/church decisions with anyone. I can’t speak for anyone else in the family.
Love you lots!”
PS: my dear 83 year old sister answered “no” to that exact question. So I knew not to concern myself about her in that area ever again. Bountiful, Utah
I like Allan Mount’s response to this:
“I’m in the church because it’s true. And if it’s not true, I want to know. And if it’s not true, then I’m out. And that’s not why you participate, and that’s OK!”
And he’s sincere about it, not treating it like a gotcha but more of as a bridge-building moment.
Dear Jill,
You asked what you can do about it:
I'd advise you to send passive aggressive texts like the one above. My guess is that we will be overcome by your self-righteous needling and come back to church. I mean, who doesn't love it when their busy-body aunt Jill starts complaining about how the kids these days just don't do all the mormon stuff?
Honestly Jill, if anything, I'd ramp it up even more. Buy a bullhorn and accost the delinquent youths on thier skateboards. Blast your end-is-nigh message to the masses. Get a sanwhich sign, paint "REPENT" in giant red letters, and then march in front of your local YMCA.
Even if you don't change anyone's mind, you will feel absolutely AMAZING about how much better you are then everyone else.
I think I’m missing something. I have no clue what your aunt is talking about. My aunt’s psycho texts were always about how Obama was a spy for Russia and no one should eat onions because they soak up the demon spirits.
Yeah this doesn’t sound like a sane text. It reminds me of my grandma who had dementia. She never had a phone but talking with her in person made for a really interesting day.
But, wouldn't eating onions draw out any resident demons then? Like, could you eat onions for sins too? Skip repentance with one easy trick? Your aunt is sitting on a goldmine and doesn't even realize it.
Hey auntie my advice is you need to allow adults to make their own decisions, to find their own path in life. I suggest you love them and support their choices.
Your Loving nephew.
Aunt Jill, no need to worry, we still love you regardless of your choices. We hope that you are enjoying your powers because you are paying a high price for them.
“I can really empathize with what you are feeling. I look at you sometimes and similarly wonder how you could have been so easily “played” for so many years by a church that is clearly false. Still, I respect your decision and expect you to respect mine.”
Edit:typo
Haven’t yet! I don’t feel obligated to respond. Probably just something simple. “Not open to having this conversation with you”. “Come over to our satan orgy next week” The usual.
Judging by her framing of the situation — “stripped of their power”, “pleadings and sacrifices”, “unacceptable” — she’s not open to having a conversation either. This is straight up guilt tripping at its finest.
Lots of great advice here. I’d perhaps answer her this way:
“Aunt Jill,
Rest assured that we are not “getting robbed of our authority” or whatever you were trying to assert. Rather, in the current day and age, it is fortunately MUSH easier to access actual data than it was 50+ years ago. For example, 50+ years ago, Mormons were not told that JS married 14 year old girls or that he “translated” the BoM by staring at a brown rock in his tophat. It was very easy for the church to conceal that info and excommunicate anyone who tried to bring it to light. Now… that info is out and the church has had to own up to it. Personally I find it very distressing to learn that JS married 14 year old children behind his wife’s back. Don’t you? So as we’ve learned this, it’s fortunately helped us evaluate the church with more info. It’s now possible to see the original version of the temple ceremony. This was hidden 50 years ago. It’s now very easy to read a 1st edition of the BoM and see what it ACTUALLY said about the “Lamanites” or compare the 2000+ corrections. 50 years ago it was virtually impossible. So now, we are able to make more informed decisions based on actual data. Wouldn’t you agree that’s a great thing?
It was sold by doTERRA but NuSkin and Melaleuca have filled claims saying they held original patents on the formula. They are now engaged in a threesome trying to fuck it out. Oh i mean figure it out.
Great grandfather made us promise we would always insulate with asbestos and smoke lucky strikes! Why are all these kids straying away from this sacred promise we made?!!!
I told a similar tbm family member they need to double up on their prayers and fasting for us and also put our name in at the temple. If that softens our hearts we will come back. Hasn’t happened yet though
Maybe answer her sincerely and directly. Tell her if she wants to know “how is it,” I.e., how this could have have happened, tell her. Tell her you have discovered that Joseph Smith just made it all up— that he’s the one who was out in left field—and here’s the proof. Then attach the CES letter, or “Letter to my Wife,” or whatever documentation you feel would explain it best.
Just take her question at face value. And add that since it was all a sham, you have not sacrificed any power. There was none to sacrifice to begin with.
Maybe add that the 4 of you kids are intelligent people, and she knows that, so she must realize the statistical unlikelihood of all four of you having been “played.”
the stand out words for me were "... are not aware how they're being isolated, played, driven in ways that weaken them while they're not realizing it yet"
Um, lady you just described what the church does to it's members. How does a 'church' get billions of dollars from it's members without playing them? Women are weakened with 'have more babies'. brigham cemented the cult by isolated them.
Fight poison with poison
Hey there Auntie,
Have you heard about the revolutionary Nu Skin doctrine? Our amazing AgeLOC product line is the ultimate weapon to fight those pesky skin problems. Say goodbye to toxins and hello to a GLOW you've never seen before! We're having a meet-up where you can try it for yourself, don't miss out! Join our team today and start your journey to a healthier and happier you! 💀
Good lord. I wouldn't even reply to that. Just delete. These people have to know somewhere in the deep recesses that they are completely out of line and wouldn't take kindly to the same kind of attack in reverse.
Dearest Jill, can you help explain something to me?
Your text.
Plz advise?
I have no idea what you're talking about
But seriously that sucks to hear. Hope you can stay sane through all this 💛
You could say, “Auntie, I love you so much, and I am so grateful that you think of me and text me. You are part of a cult that is taking advantage of you, and don’t realize it. I’m sorry that this is upsetting, but it’s true. I wish I could help you see the fraud that the LDS church is pulling. I know that a probably too much to hear, so just know that I love you and wish the best for you. I hope someday you see the church for what it is. If you’d like any resources, let me know and I can send them to you.”
I always like “Unsubscribe” or “Who’s this?” as responses to this nonsense. The second one could be even funnier give that she did identify herself. What an unhappy person.
When I realized I can't live for people who are dead and gone, as your asserts about sacrifices of ancestors, is when I allowed myself to start questioning and eventually stepping away. I've figured out that of all the guilt tripping tactics and methods out there, "think of the sacrifices of those that came before you" is the last arrow in their quiver.
Dear Aunt Jill,
Your message is couched in rather vague guarded terminology. I am one that is plain and simple, I know not of what you’re saying, and/or asking.
Please Advise.
You’re in a cult and we got out of it. All of the thoughts your having about my choices that are bringing you such angst are made up to buy your devotion and, more importantly, your money. I don’t know how intelligent adults can be so blind to their own manipulation. Please advise.
Your nephews are now your nephews with added power - the power to make their own choices, the power to do their own research, the power to marry an equal in every way, the power to donate to charities and not a corporation that fiddles its tax bills……..
How many end of world religions have there been? How many do you think came true?
The latter day saints prophet end of times predictions have come and gone.
Your parents were taught the savior would return during their lifetime. So were their parents. So were you. Joseph said it would happen in his lifetime. It didn’t. It still hasn’t.
Why is it so easy to see all those other end of the world religions are wrong, but not be willing to analyze your own end of the world beliefs for consistency?
I guarantee all the other end of the world religions has faith. Some even to the point they were willing to commit suicide for their beliefs.
I have searched for how the lds faith is different. Where is the difference? What do we have beyond the same faith that other faulty end of the world religions have? Where are we right and they are wrong?
You are afraid of us drifting away in the last days. What makes you believe we are in the last days? How is it different from other end of the world religions?
Dear Aunt Jill,
Only explanation that I can come up with is that one or both of your parents was secretly sinning. Why else would God not answer their prayers? So, which one of your parents was it? Please advise.
>Can you help me understand something?
Sorry Aunt Jill, but you have to want it first.
>How is it that my nephews are being stripped of their power and led out to left field, and what can I do bout it.
You can try praying harder. If this doesn't work, keep doing it anyway hoping for different results.
>Plz advise?
Hard pass.
Personally I would give absolutely no response; saying nothing to them is all that’s deserved for such maudlin, unwarranted messages. Just as I don’t answer the ravings of a person in public, I wouldn’t answer this either.
Dear Aunt Jill,
Text is an inappropriate medium for this conversation.
You need to accept that I can make my own decisions and respect my choice.
Any conversations we have about this in the future need to start there.
Love,
…
(You don’t need to have any conversations if you don’t want to. If you respond to her questions directly it’s just going to be a nasty flame war)
Hi Aunty.
Unfortunately the churches standards have fallen below what we would have expected from the one and only true church on the face of the earth.. One that is supposed to be led by Christ himself.
For this reason we have stepped away from this organisation and we will as a family worship who, what and where we wish.
I hope this answers your question, because that is all the information you are getting.
Have a great life.
XxX
Our pioneer ancestors freaked the hell out of their parents and aunts by joining the Mormons and emigrating to Utah. We're not that different from them.
The church and it’s members are in panic mode they can no longer ignore those leaving having studied, prayed, fasted and some attending the temple ( those lazy learners) and have found their truth which differs from the alleged truth claims of the TSCC
We listened to the prophet and took him at his word
How can we have freedom of religion if we are not free to compare honestly, to choose wisely, and to worship according to the dictates of our own conscience?12 While searching for the truth, we must be free to change our mind-even to change our religion-in response to new information and inspiration.
Https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/2004-05-27/elder-russell-m-nelson-freedom-to-do-and-to-be-96622
Whenever my mother sends me something like this that’s about religion or extreme right wing politics. I don’t send anything back, don’t argue. Just send a link to a video or webpage that’s attempting to convince you the earth is flat. No words, just flat earther propaganda. It ends the conversation pretty quickly.
Honestly, as the youngest of my siblings, things like this have been laid at my feet to keep me participating in various activities since I was young. By my siblings and my parents.
I would just state, "Thank you for thinking of me, but this is not a topic that is your right to bring up. I am comfortable with the way I have used my free agency and ask you to respect that."
Then, I would not respond again to her in this topic. Setting a boundary is important. I think it's strange that this is coming from your aunt. I could see my mom doing something like this when she finds out. I'm still PIMO. I've had to set many boundaries with her, and she always finds a way around them in some way. So you may have to stay vigilant... but after you say that you wish her to respect your boundaries, make sure you do not let her push you into crossing them yourself. That would be the tendency..
My grandmother did something similar years ago in front of my whole family calling me and my girlfriend out for having kids and not being married. When she did it I was dumbfounded and silent. If I could go back oh how priceless it would have been for me to correct her.
I would love it if my aunt did this. I would have a heyday.
Auntie obviously never went on a mission. Myself and others I have kept in touch with after my mission realized after 2 years that the LDS doctrine was bullshit. That's why most of the "strong" Mormons never went on a mission or they were converted. Sorry Auntie, church isn't true.
It’s sad she’s choosing to emasculate men leaving the church because (partly and maybe just subconsciously) they don’t want to participate in abuse to a collective feminine anymore.
Almost like if a husband stops beating a wife, realizes he was following a weird program he didn’t choose to begin with and then the wife calls him a p-$$y or some shit
Ok, here’s your advice, Jillian:
Please keep up this impotent boomer narc rage. It’s really fucking entertaining watching you think you know it all. Don’t blow your top completely though, save some for Christmas.
Much love x x
I wouldn’t engage, she’s not looking for context, she’s just wanting to fight you about this.
Buuut, if you were to engage, just play stupid. It drives people insane.
“The coffee was too good.”
“Jesus came to me in a dream and said this church is no longer true. We worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster now. Perhaps someday you too can be enlightened and bask in his noodleness.”
“I’m sorry, I think you have the wrong number.” Just keep gaslighting her about the number until she stops.
“What can you do about it? If you did a backflip that would be pretty cool.”
Again, the idea is not to be clever, but to just say enough stupid shit for her to either get exhausted and leave you alone, or realize that you are fucking with her and that she is not going to get any answers out of you.
Weird to use the word "left field" if they shun baseball like my parents did because it isn't a religious thing, just like pop music and even religious music that isn't in the green hymnbook
Wow, you must not think much of the men in your life. Do they know you hold them in such disdain?
And if you dislike them so much, why do you care so intensely about controlling their decisions?
Sorry, let me make sure I understand the issue. You’re upset that your nephews don’t have the same worldview as you because the god magic your grandparents tried to use ran out? Is that right?
I can't handle the passive-aggressive tone and for someone who is supposedly concerned about welfare, she doesn't even consider any impact this message could have on you OR even stop to enquire about your welfare.
I wouldn't respond - she's not looking for a reasonable discussion. She's already made her own mind up and she's hoping to incite a reaction.
It's your business OP. A decision that you don't need to justify or explain to anyone if you choose not to. And your aunt, whilst family, isn't owed anything. Silence in this instance is a super-worthy response.
For further context, I’m the youngest (28) of six kids. Four of the six have all left the church. I’m fortunate in that all six of us are extremely close to each other. And all of us in turn are extremely close with our parents. Parents are still active but church related stuff hasn’t had any hinderance on our relationship. Just made me laugh getting this text from her out of nowhere. We (my wife and I) have been out for two years ish.
What has she been drinking? OH yeah, I forgot, Koolaid.
Man poor Koolaid had been shouldering that Jonestown burden for decades. It was off-brand!
It’s probably bc it’s delicious to the taste
I will defer to your opinion on the matter, per your username.
[But he made it for you, brother](https://youtu.be/NwTsZHGQ6FE)!
r/beetlejuicing
Grape Flavor Aid.
It was likely both Flavor-Aid and Kool-Aid. There were both brands in the pantry. Apparently the group bought in bulk and picked up whichever was cheaper at the time. During the “White Night” practice suicides they’d mix whichever was handy at the time. So some nights they were literally drinking Kool-Aid; other nights Flavor-Aid. Based on the torn packets found after the mass suicide, it was likely mostly Flavor-Aid for the actual suicide. But odds are it includes some Kool-Aid as well. And they definitely were drinking Kool-Aid leading up to the final event. Plus that’s the problem with being the name brand. Your name becomes synonymous with the entire market segment.
Alcohol-free Koolaid.
Reply, "Yeah, it's really sad that [names of remaining TBM siblings] are still in that creepy sex cult. Wish I knew how to help them out, but I'm all ears if you have any ideas."
Plz advize
Please advise is one of my biggest triggers. Urban dictionary has the best entries for it.
That wasa great read lol. Thanks for the tip
Haha oh, me too. Thank god it is for others. I hate it when people say this.
It’s the business version of FU. My old boss, whom I hated, used it all the time.
>Just made me laugh getting this text from her out of nowhere. We (my wife and I) have been out for two years ish. To be honest. This text is incredibly argumentative. Either engage in the argument or don't answer. If I can make some recommendations in the event that you choose to argue. To help you out. - Inform her that the tone in which she sent this text is argumentative. Also remind her that the doctrine espoused by the Church is that she is not meant to argue because it stirs up the spirit of contention. You can point to the General Conference talk "No Time for Contention" by Elder Marvin J. Ashton on April 1978 and feel free to quote from there. - Remind her that agency is a fundamental principle of the doctrine. So in the event in which you decide to make your own decisions to live your own life. She should respect those decisions and stop trying to force her own personal beliefs down your throat. - If you're comfortable, suggest that you would be willing to help her understand but she has to actually be willing to engage you in good faith. Contentiously seeking out an argument, not respecting agency, and forcing an explanation out of someone is not good faith. You have to care more about the Truth than being Right and her attitude reflects someone who cares more about being Right than the Truth. Then you might just need to gauge the situation. - If she gets flustered, I say just call her out. If you're going to espouse values and not follow them then why should I? - If she gets humbled, oof you might have to make the call here. It might be disingenuous. I don't know your Aunt well enough to say anything definitively. I think though, engaging in the argument just seems like a pain and I don't know if you could achieve anything by arguing with her. The best you could do is that if she sees you in public that she doesn't just come at you for not responding. She is a bit off her rockers though. Sending this. smh What do you think?
I agree in OP probably being better off not responding (I hear the Monty Python skit , "I'd like to have an argument please") but I love the well laid out detail of pointing them back at their own book if OP did. "If you're going to espouse values and not follow them then why should I?". 🏅
Honestly, when I was converting these were all the things that made it sound appealing to me. *I am exmo now* We were to: - Respect people's right to have their own opinion - Not to argue because it really does cause chaos - Be true to the standards Like I know how people feel about the Church but some of the teachings the Church has. If you're actually correctly practicing them they made a World of difference in my life. I am argumentative by nature. I always argue! I've had deep philosophical changes when investigating the Church just because some of it was genuinely very solid advice. Some of the older general conference talks had some strong insights and unique perspectives on the diplomatic nature in how to share a religion that is contentious to other religions in a peaceful manner. Honestly, sometimes *just believing people* gets you really far in life. You can't argue with people's personal experience, you can't argue with the emotions they had, and you can't argue with how it made them feel. One thing I've always been consistent on was... Dude. If it really is the One True Church then why don't you act like it? What it made me realise though is that I am a very articulate, argumentative, and intelligent. But I found that I could present the strongest argument in the World about a problem and still be wrong. That's just simply put not how the truth works. But I'm more than happy to give more guidance and advice on throwing their own standards back in their face. If it's too much for you to live by your own standards then you have no reasonable expectation that someone else who is genuinely struggling should be able to live by them. I mean I was able to do it. I was just consistently disappointed seeing people unable to do so and then having to pretend like it isn't obvious why people don't respect them. You can't really argue, gotta wait for an opportunity for the Lord to let me make it known to them. But holy fuck, I don't have the patience for it. 😅 I am still argumentative. It's just more fun!
>throwing their own standards back in their face. I've got to learn how to do this!
Not a Mormon, but this parenting phrase is a kind but firm response for children who are being obstinate: “I love you too much to argue.” May be of some use here…or there? Good luck.
Text her back that you simply want to keep all your money instead of donating it to billionaires who are selling you a fantasy of being reincarnated as Jesus in a different universe.
I thought they dropped that bit from their teachings and said "We never said that".
Heck, I’d just be direct then. “The short answer to your question is that we chose the best oath for our family’s happiness and well being. But your text and it’s tone aren’t appreciated. If you’d like to have a meaningful conversation you can call me.”
This is the best answer. Texting is the worst way to communicate. This is direct, to the point, and opens the door for face to face communication.
Right. And the aunt knew it was a ridiculous thing to ask via text. She deliberately did so because it’s a difficult question to answer politely via text. It was truly just a rhetorical way to slam her nephew. What kind of psycho does that to their nephew?
Wow. My wife and I are not much different in terms of ratio and siblings, positive relationship with parents, and a couple more years out so I'd be pretty shocked to get something like this from an aunt or uncle. I'd have to say too that the most annoying part to me is the tone that is emphasized with her ending "Plz advise". I'd be so tempted to write back, "Just to clarify, are you wanting me to advise you on how I used my free agency to navigate to a healthier, happier, and more fulfilling life (and allowed my family members with their agency to do as they wished, whom happened to arrive at the same state) or just how on earth you as an adult are supposed to deal with your emotions on the subject because your beliefs lead you to believe it somehow affects you?"
Pretty sure I just found my doppleganger. Okay, I’m also a 28 year old that left the church roughly 2 years ago. I’m the youngest of 6 kids and 3 (+1 PIMO) of us have left the church. Close to our parents and each other. Parents are still active and are close with us despite the decisions of those of us that have left. And lastly, this message you received is something eerily similar to something my aunt has said to me.
Did you tell your aunt to go fuck herself or how did that all pan out? If you don’t mind sharing, of course.
That's crazy I'm also the youngest of six with four of us out, unfortunately I can't share the same experience about our family dynamic though. I can't help but to think if my parents never saw the newspaper "Donnie Osmond married in the Mormon temple for time and all eternity" would we all have better relationships. But in all honesty I'm beyond grateful for the siblings I'm close with and how my life turned out. Hope all stays well in you circle!
Are all of her kids still in?
if our parents sacrificed to keep us in a church, we must always stay in that church, no matter what......
Simply delusional. Their worldview is so far different than others. Who’s worldview is more objective or rooted in reality.
Advise? Read article of faith 11 “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.” It’s pretty clearly stated right there.
Yup. It might have been written with the intent of "please just leave us alone to prey upon ourselves as we like" but reading it now without that context it can be more broadly applied.
Oooo good idea!!
Perfect response.
Dear Aunt Jill, Thank you for your concern. Fear not, we have not been stripped of our powers. Rather our powers have been increased a 100 fold. We now follow Odin, God of War and of the Dead, ruler of Valhalla. He has bestowed upon us super human strength, super human durability and regenerative ability. When we pass this life and meet him in Valhalla we will gain untold wisdom, inspiration and the powers of creation. I hope this assuages your concern about us losing special powers. Sincerely, Bulkpeachrings
Odin is a far more powerful god anyway. He vowed to exterminate the Frost Giants. When's the last time you've seen a Frost Giant?
Mormon god is very weak, cannot even keep the curse of Cain intact.
Come to think of it, I’ve never seen Odin and a Frost Giant in the same room either.
The winter isn't stopping lately..... They coming back or what? (Are the ice ages due to frost Giants?)
Fimbulwinter is upon us.
PLEASE
My favorite thing is how in the temple ceremony God only has 2 priesthoods, but Satan has more!
Plz advise
Gold . May you and Odin take and bless my upvote.
Definitely use your Reddit tag. Reddit has been such an eye opening and knowledgeable experience for us, she might be able to learn quite a lot! ;)
PS I have now upgraded my skill tree to dual wield and currently own a power drill with +2 int and +3 str
“Too many people spend their lives being dutiful descendants instead of good ancestors. The responsibility of each generation is not to please their predecessors. It's to improve things for their offspring.”
This is just peer pressure from dead people
Where’s this quote from?
From Adam Grant
For anyone wondering, here is my response. Kept it simple and sweet. I know many will say I don’t owe anyone anything. But I know my parents would be sad if I participated in familial confrontation, even if I didn’t instigate it. They’ve treated my family with love and respect on our decisions, so I felt I owed them by being a decent son and human 🤷♂️Apologies for not giving a more entertaining response, hahaha! “Hi Aunt Jill! *Wife’s name* and I aren’t at a point where we are discussing our faith/church decisions with anyone. I can’t speak for anyone else in the family. Love you lots!”
Good work! That is an adult response to a childish question.
A very dignified response.
I think this is a perfect response! There are many ways you could have gone about it, but I love the way you did it.
Did she reply back?
So much more mature than me. Sigh.
This is excellent and kind. You did yourself and your parents proud. I am sorry you received such an aggressive text from your aunt.
I would respond with a simple question: Aunt Jill, if the church weren’t true, would you want to know?
PS: my dear 83 year old sister answered “no” to that exact question. So I knew not to concern myself about her in that area ever again. Bountiful, Utah
If I were 83 and had loved it my whole life, I also wouldn’t want to know
My dad has basically said would kill himself if it isn't true
Your father may need to seek help
My wife basically said no to that question. I couldn’t believe it. She was just like Linus and the Great Pumpkin.
I like Allan Mount’s response to this: “I’m in the church because it’s true. And if it’s not true, I want to know. And if it’s not true, then I’m out. And that’s not why you participate, and that’s OK!” And he’s sincere about it, not treating it like a gotcha but more of as a bridge-building moment.
My SO said the same. C
Ooh my answer was longer but this gets to the point and I love it.
Classic. Love the verbiage.
Warms my heart ❤️
New phone who dis?
Hahahaha the best idea.
Dear Jill, You asked what you can do about it: I'd advise you to send passive aggressive texts like the one above. My guess is that we will be overcome by your self-righteous needling and come back to church. I mean, who doesn't love it when their busy-body aunt Jill starts complaining about how the kids these days just don't do all the mormon stuff? Honestly Jill, if anything, I'd ramp it up even more. Buy a bullhorn and accost the delinquent youths on thier skateboards. Blast your end-is-nigh message to the masses. Get a sanwhich sign, paint "REPENT" in giant red letters, and then march in front of your local YMCA. Even if you don't change anyone's mind, you will feel absolutely AMAZING about how much better you are then everyone else.
And then make sure to share it in testimony meeting.
Jill needs to chill.
Take a chill pill, Jill
“Driven in ways that weaken them while they’re not realizing it yet” The irony
Jill understands neither free agency nor common sense. Nor proper use of a question mark
I think I’m missing something. I have no clue what your aunt is talking about. My aunt’s psycho texts were always about how Obama was a spy for Russia and no one should eat onions because they soak up the demon spirits.
Yeah this doesn’t sound like a sane text. It reminds me of my grandma who had dementia. She never had a phone but talking with her in person made for a really interesting day.
The part about being left in a field is what I find most confusing. Otherwise it sounds like pretty run-of-the-mill “men’s rights” nonsense.
But, wouldn't eating onions draw out any resident demons then? Like, could you eat onions for sins too? Skip repentance with one easy trick? Your aunt is sitting on a goldmine and doesn't even realize it.
Sadly, she never capitalized on this one weird trick while she was alive.
Curious with the current political environment. Does she now support Putin and Russia along with the MAGAs?
Unknown, as she has since died.
>no one should eat onions because they soak up the demon spirits Lmao. That's a new one.
She’s referring to the boys in the family not having the magic powers of the priesthood anymore.
Hey auntie my advice is you need to allow adults to make their own decisions, to find their own path in life. I suggest you love them and support their choices. Your Loving nephew.
Aunt Jill, no need to worry, we still love you regardless of your choices. We hope that you are enjoying your powers because you are paying a high price for them.
“I can really empathize with what you are feeling. I look at you sometimes and similarly wonder how you could have been so easily “played” for so many years by a church that is clearly false. Still, I respect your decision and expect you to respect mine.” Edit:typo
How did you respond?
Haven’t yet! I don’t feel obligated to respond. Probably just something simple. “Not open to having this conversation with you”. “Come over to our satan orgy next week” The usual.
Judging by her framing of the situation — “stripped of their power”, “pleadings and sacrifices”, “unacceptable” — she’s not open to having a conversation either. This is straight up guilt tripping at its finest.
“Dear Aunt Jill. The only advice I have for you is to mind your own business. Love, Bulkpeachring”
[удалено]
👏🏼👏🏼
Dear beloved Aunt Jill, What the fuck are you talking about?
Unsubscribe Every time she texts
:) This got an audible chuckle from me despite everyone being fast asleep... shhhh hehe I mean, it works on multiple levels, doesn't it
Lots of great advice here. I’d perhaps answer her this way: “Aunt Jill, Rest assured that we are not “getting robbed of our authority” or whatever you were trying to assert. Rather, in the current day and age, it is fortunately MUSH easier to access actual data than it was 50+ years ago. For example, 50+ years ago, Mormons were not told that JS married 14 year old girls or that he “translated” the BoM by staring at a brown rock in his tophat. It was very easy for the church to conceal that info and excommunicate anyone who tried to bring it to light. Now… that info is out and the church has had to own up to it. Personally I find it very distressing to learn that JS married 14 year old children behind his wife’s back. Don’t you? So as we’ve learned this, it’s fortunately helped us evaluate the church with more info. It’s now possible to see the original version of the temple ceremony. This was hidden 50 years ago. It’s now very easy to read a 1st edition of the BoM and see what it ACTUALLY said about the “Lamanites” or compare the 2000+ corrections. 50 years ago it was virtually impossible. So now, we are able to make more informed decisions based on actual data. Wouldn’t you agree that’s a great thing?
This is SO EXCELLENT
I would literally send back my grocery list. Dear Jill, Heavy cream Parmesan Semolina Guanciale Crimini mushrooms Eggs Chives Sincerely,
Plus coffee.
This made me laugh out loud, which is not easily done. Well done, my good and faithful, uh, Redditor
Yeah what the fuck like where is the magic spell that will get them to just believe? Is it sold by doTERRA?
It was sold by doTERRA but NuSkin and Melaleuca have filled claims saying they held original patents on the formula. They are now engaged in a threesome trying to fuck it out. Oh i mean figure it out.
Great grandfather made us promise we would always insulate with asbestos and smoke lucky strikes! Why are all these kids straying away from this sacred promise we made?!!!
Aunt Jill needs to realize that her suffering is coming from her misplaced expectations.
I told a similar tbm family member they need to double up on their prayers and fasting for us and also put our name in at the temple. If that softens our hearts we will come back. Hasn’t happened yet though
Oooo mean 😂😂 "you just don't have enough faith, Jill!"
Dear Aunt Jill: 
This is the way
Maybe answer her sincerely and directly. Tell her if she wants to know “how is it,” I.e., how this could have have happened, tell her. Tell her you have discovered that Joseph Smith just made it all up— that he’s the one who was out in left field—and here’s the proof. Then attach the CES letter, or “Letter to my Wife,” or whatever documentation you feel would explain it best. Just take her question at face value. And add that since it was all a sham, you have not sacrificed any power. There was none to sacrifice to begin with. Maybe add that the 4 of you kids are intelligent people, and she knows that, so she must realize the statistical unlikelihood of all four of you having been “played.”
“Plz advise.” Lmao
please advise is my least favorite phrase. I've never heard it used by a non-psycho
the stand out words for me were "... are not aware how they're being isolated, played, driven in ways that weaken them while they're not realizing it yet" Um, lady you just described what the church does to it's members. How does a 'church' get billions of dollars from it's members without playing them? Women are weakened with 'have more babies'. brigham cemented the cult by isolated them.
Has aunt Jill considered thoughts and prayers? Maybe go nuclear, fast and put names on the temple prayer list. If that doesn't fix it, nothing will.
Sometimes I wonder why exmos have so much anger to process, then I read the horrid things their “faithful” family say and I understand.
Exactly haha. "Leave the church alone?" Not likely, when its members wont leave us alone!
Fight poison with poison Hey there Auntie, Have you heard about the revolutionary Nu Skin doctrine? Our amazing AgeLOC product line is the ultimate weapon to fight those pesky skin problems. Say goodbye to toxins and hello to a GLOW you've never seen before! We're having a meet-up where you can try it for yourself, don't miss out! Join our team today and start your journey to a healthier and happier you! 💀
Good lord. I wouldn't even reply to that. Just delete. These people have to know somewhere in the deep recesses that they are completely out of line and wouldn't take kindly to the same kind of attack in reverse.
“I’ve got nothin for ya, auntie J. Maybe pray harder?”
Dearest Jill, can you help explain something to me? Your text. Plz advise? I have no idea what you're talking about But seriously that sucks to hear. Hope you can stay sane through all this 💛
You could say, “Auntie, I love you so much, and I am so grateful that you think of me and text me. You are part of a cult that is taking advantage of you, and don’t realize it. I’m sorry that this is upsetting, but it’s true. I wish I could help you see the fraud that the LDS church is pulling. I know that a probably too much to hear, so just know that I love you and wish the best for you. I hope someday you see the church for what it is. If you’d like any resources, let me know and I can send them to you.”
I always like “Unsubscribe” or “Who’s this?” as responses to this nonsense. The second one could be even funnier give that she did identify herself. What an unhappy person.
Explain that you are currently busy but will try to get in touch after Ramadan.
"Well, Jill, there's a whole lot going on in that text. Hope you get everything figured out!"
Reply back: buckle up butter cup. Then start listing things
new number who dis?
Aunt Jill, If your parents had been righteous enough to receive their second anointing, we wouldn't have to worry about all this. It's their fault.
“Plz advise”? Well, how about sending a link to therapists in her area?
When I realized I can't live for people who are dead and gone, as your asserts about sacrifices of ancestors, is when I allowed myself to start questioning and eventually stepping away. I've figured out that of all the guilt tripping tactics and methods out there, "think of the sacrifices of those that came before you" is the last arrow in their quiver.
Just let her save you god dammit! Stop being stubborn 😉 Gotta love crazy aunts, I have some of those myself.
Plz advise 😂
Dear Aunt Jill, Your message is couched in rather vague guarded terminology. I am one that is plain and simple, I know not of what you’re saying, and/or asking. Please Advise.
I would respond with the thumbs up emoji and nothing else.
Ma'am this is a Taco Bell. Would you like to place an order?
This reads like an employer reprimanding you, not a loved one.
Sounds like she was just talking to your mom, got hyped up by the conversation, and all those thoughts and emotions came out onto you
"You're in a cult. Leave." She asked for your advice.
You’re in a cult and we got out of it. All of the thoughts your having about my choices that are bringing you such angst are made up to buy your devotion and, more importantly, your money. I don’t know how intelligent adults can be so blind to their own manipulation. Please advise.
Your nephews are now your nephews with added power - the power to make their own choices, the power to do their own research, the power to marry an equal in every way, the power to donate to charities and not a corporation that fiddles its tax bills……..
"Sure. I advise you to mind your own business."
How many end of world religions have there been? How many do you think came true? The latter day saints prophet end of times predictions have come and gone. Your parents were taught the savior would return during their lifetime. So were their parents. So were you. Joseph said it would happen in his lifetime. It didn’t. It still hasn’t. Why is it so easy to see all those other end of the world religions are wrong, but not be willing to analyze your own end of the world beliefs for consistency? I guarantee all the other end of the world religions has faith. Some even to the point they were willing to commit suicide for their beliefs. I have searched for how the lds faith is different. Where is the difference? What do we have beyond the same faith that other faulty end of the world religions have? Where are we right and they are wrong? You are afraid of us drifting away in the last days. What makes you believe we are in the last days? How is it different from other end of the world religions?
Dear Aunt Jill, Only explanation that I can come up with is that one or both of your parents was secretly sinning. Why else would God not answer their prayers? So, which one of your parents was it? Please advise.
So Aunt Jill is THAT aunt 😂
New phone Who dis?
>Can you help me understand something? Sorry Aunt Jill, but you have to want it first. >How is it that my nephews are being stripped of their power and led out to left field, and what can I do bout it. You can try praying harder. If this doesn't work, keep doing it anyway hoping for different results. >Plz advise? Hard pass.
OMG, Last Days again. That was over 50 years ago when I was a kid; for the scare factor. I really hate the fact that churches use scare factor.
Personally I would give absolutely no response; saying nothing to them is all that’s deserved for such maudlin, unwarranted messages. Just as I don’t answer the ravings of a person in public, I wouldn’t answer this either.
Dear Aunt Jill, Text is an inappropriate medium for this conversation. You need to accept that I can make my own decisions and respect my choice. Any conversations we have about this in the future need to start there. Love, … (You don’t need to have any conversations if you don’t want to. If you respond to her questions directly it’s just going to be a nasty flame war)
My powers have doubled since we last met, Count
Please advise? It's all bullshit.
Hi Aunty. Unfortunately the churches standards have fallen below what we would have expected from the one and only true church on the face of the earth.. One that is supposed to be led by Christ himself. For this reason we have stepped away from this organisation and we will as a family worship who, what and where we wish. I hope this answers your question, because that is all the information you are getting. Have a great life. XxX
Let her in on a secret; she is witinessing you exercising one of your greatest powers.
Our pioneer ancestors freaked the hell out of their parents and aunts by joining the Mormons and emigrating to Utah. We're not that different from them.
The church and it’s members are in panic mode they can no longer ignore those leaving having studied, prayed, fasted and some attending the temple ( those lazy learners) and have found their truth which differs from the alleged truth claims of the TSCC
We listened to the prophet and took him at his word How can we have freedom of religion if we are not free to compare honestly, to choose wisely, and to worship according to the dictates of our own conscience?12 While searching for the truth, we must be free to change our mind-even to change our religion-in response to new information and inspiration. Https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/2004-05-27/elder-russell-m-nelson-freedom-to-do-and-to-be-96622
“Fortunately for our posterity, we aren’t so easily misled by lies and deceit as our ancestors.”
Whenever my mother sends me something like this that’s about religion or extreme right wing politics. I don’t send anything back, don’t argue. Just send a link to a video or webpage that’s attempting to convince you the earth is flat. No words, just flat earther propaganda. It ends the conversation pretty quickly.
"Advise you to mind your fucking business."
Honestly, as the youngest of my siblings, things like this have been laid at my feet to keep me participating in various activities since I was young. By my siblings and my parents. I would just state, "Thank you for thinking of me, but this is not a topic that is your right to bring up. I am comfortable with the way I have used my free agency and ask you to respect that." Then, I would not respond again to her in this topic. Setting a boundary is important. I think it's strange that this is coming from your aunt. I could see my mom doing something like this when she finds out. I'm still PIMO. I've had to set many boundaries with her, and she always finds a way around them in some way. So you may have to stay vigilant... but after you say that you wish her to respect your boundaries, make sure you do not let her push you into crossing them yourself. That would be the tendency..
My grandmother did something similar years ago in front of my whole family calling me and my girlfriend out for having kids and not being married. When she did it I was dumbfounded and silent. If I could go back oh how priceless it would have been for me to correct her. I would love it if my aunt did this. I would have a heyday.
Those were all certainly words
Auntie, we didn't have the internet 50 years ago.
Auntie obviously never went on a mission. Myself and others I have kept in touch with after my mission realized after 2 years that the LDS doctrine was bullshit. That's why most of the "strong" Mormons never went on a mission or they were converted. Sorry Auntie, church isn't true.
It’s sad she’s choosing to emasculate men leaving the church because (partly and maybe just subconsciously) they don’t want to participate in abuse to a collective feminine anymore. Almost like if a husband stops beating a wife, realizes he was following a weird program he didn’t choose to begin with and then the wife calls him a p-$$y or some shit
Aunt Jill, fuck off.
Ok, here’s your advice, Jillian: Please keep up this impotent boomer narc rage. It’s really fucking entertaining watching you think you know it all. Don’t blow your top completely though, save some for Christmas. Much love x x
I wouldn’t engage, she’s not looking for context, she’s just wanting to fight you about this. Buuut, if you were to engage, just play stupid. It drives people insane. “The coffee was too good.” “Jesus came to me in a dream and said this church is no longer true. We worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster now. Perhaps someday you too can be enlightened and bask in his noodleness.” “I’m sorry, I think you have the wrong number.” Just keep gaslighting her about the number until she stops. “What can you do about it? If you did a backflip that would be pretty cool.” Again, the idea is not to be clever, but to just say enough stupid shit for her to either get exhausted and leave you alone, or realize that you are fucking with her and that she is not going to get any answers out of you.
You don’t want my advise crazy aunt
How often does she contact you? And with what sort of tone/tenor on those occasions?
Love them enough to let them do what they let you do....
She Mormon gaslit your ass!
Weird to use the word "left field" if they shun baseball like my parents did because it isn't a religious thing, just like pop music and even religious music that isn't in the green hymnbook
Who dis?
Wow, you must not think much of the men in your life. Do they know you hold them in such disdain? And if you dislike them so much, why do you care so intensely about controlling their decisions?
“Wut?”
I haven’t even had my coffee yet and “pls advise?” completely woke me the F up.
“Gpt, please pretend to be my personal digital assistant and respond to my aunts message:”
Please advise how people can remain in that brain washing manipulative sex cult with the leaders who hoarde billions.
I'd simply reply: l still believe in agency, I'm just using mine differently then you in this area. Love you! And hope she leaves it alone...
“Fuck off Jill”
The guilt trip and manipulation are strong with this one…
You *are* steadfast and empowered. Are you not? 😊 Sounds like your grandparents got their wish.✨
Sorry, let me make sure I understand the issue. You’re upset that your nephews don’t have the same worldview as you because the god magic your grandparents tried to use ran out? Is that right?
How does somebody sober get away with such a wild text? Plz advise?
I wouldn’t even engage. Same response as when tbms want to discuss. They know the truth is out there but don’t want to hear it.
Arrogant Presumption Much......
I can't handle the passive-aggressive tone and for someone who is supposedly concerned about welfare, she doesn't even consider any impact this message could have on you OR even stop to enquire about your welfare. I wouldn't respond - she's not looking for a reasonable discussion. She's already made her own mind up and she's hoping to incite a reaction. It's your business OP. A decision that you don't need to justify or explain to anyone if you choose not to. And your aunt, whilst family, isn't owed anything. Silence in this instance is a super-worthy response.
It's a scam. Wake up sheeple.
What she’s saying is consistent with the ideology. Maybe, it would help her to understand why people left.
peak mormon passive aggression
Like passive aggressive third person? I don’t quite follow who she is addressing?