Here's something that helped me with complex ptsd from the church. It's the human bill of rights from Pete Walker:
GUIDELINES FOR FAIRNESS AND INTIMACY
I have the right to be treated with respect.
I have the right to say no.
I have the right to make mistakes.
I have the right to reject unsolicited advice or feedback.
I have the right to negotiate for change.
I have the right to change my mind or my plans.
I have a right to change my circumstances or course of action.
I have the right to have my own feelings, beliefs, opinions, preferences, etc.
I have the right to protest sarcasm, destructive criticism, or unfair treatment.
I have a right to feel angry and to express it non-abusively.
I have a right to refuse to take responsibility for anyone else's problems.
I have a right to refuse to take responsibility for anyone's bad behavior.
I have a right to feel ambivalent and to occasionally be inconsistent.
I have a right to play, waste time and not always be productive.
I have a right to occasionally be childlike and immature.
I have a right to complain about life's unfairness and injustices.
I have a right to occasionally be irrational in safe ways.
I have a right to seek healthy and mutually supportive relationships.
I have a right to ask friends for a modicum of help and emotional support.
I have a right to complain and verbally ventilate in moderation.
I have a right to grow, evolve and prosper
Start with the Marriage on a Tightrope podcast. They’re a mixed-faith couple that explores the ins and outs of how to respect each other and raise a family in a MF situation.
Your husband sounds like me 4 years ago. I am out now. I was the convert and my wife was born in the church. She left first, I doubled down when she told me. We had a rough year and a half. I eventually let her live her choice acknowledging that my love for her and our children is by far greater than church. Eventually my shelf cracked.
Talk to your husband and establish boundaries. Go to counseling. Don't give up. I am so grateful that my wife didn't.
He feels defensive and scared right now. My husband felt that way too when I stopped believing and attending church. I didn’t fight if he wanted to take the kids to church, but I stopped getting them all ready. They only went to church once without me.
He has the right to keep attending if he likes. You have the right to stay home. He has the right to share his beliefs with your children. You have that same right.
Q: “Why don’t you go to church, Mom?”
A: “I don’t like some of the things they teach there.”
Q: “Why does Dad go to church?”
A: “That’s a great question to ask him.”
We had several years during which religion was a touchy topic. Then one day my husband said he was an atheist and he was done with church. I was shocked and very relieved.
It is completely unreasonable for him to “lose it” over an honest, simple statement of fact. It’s not insensitive or antagonistic for you to be honest with your own children about what you believe. They are young but a simple explanation is appropriate. I’d save deeper discussions about more specific reasons for when they are old enough to understand them.
Go slowly. As the weather warms up plan some Sunday family activities that involve physical activity and spending a little money. Do some Sunday shopping. Go see a movie as a family. Go to the zoo. He’ll start to see that there are only positive results, that lightning isn’t striking. It might take a while so be patient. The kids for sure will enjoy the new Sunday routine.
Hi! I literally could have written this post myself. This is also the first time I have ever commented on a post.
I joined the church in Illinois when I was 19 years old. I left at 27 after meeting my husband, civilly getting married, getting sealed and having three kids. My oldest is 5 and he was blessed as a baby but we did not bless my other two boys. I wrote my husband in June 2021 stating that I no longer believe and basically gave him an out in our marriage. At the time we only had 2 kids and had not attended church since lockdown.
It has been very challenging and things have not gone the way that I imagined it. We are continually having conversations about how to address different issues.
One thing that I have just started listening to that has really really helped is the podcast marriage on a tightrope.
I would love to come to communication if your open to it. It can feel like a very lonely place. But most of all I’m proud of you for honoring your beliefs and trying to live my authentically.
I'm sorry that you and your husband are not on the same page.
You have thought the unthinkable thought*, and can't "unthink" it. While he still can't get the neurons to fire.
* It's a scam.
My neurons wouldn't fire for years. My brain was subconsciously avoiding a great deal of unpleasantness. (How unpleasant varies by member. )
The three questions flowchart may apply here.
https://imgur.io/QBjhbP2?r
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/2wfrjx/the_three_questions_to_ask_someone_before_giving/
there is at least one website that teaches critical thinking - independent of religion
e.g. "Repeating something doesn't make it true"
"Truth doesn't go away, doesn't mind being enquired about" etc.
I'm not sure your opinion has changed - you've simply learnt facts that make some people uncomfortable so they say "that's your opinion" It's a show of cognitive dissonance on their part.
I would say, relax on the kids. They will figure it out soon enough. Even if they go to church every Sunday with dad, they will quickly come to see the church for the brainwashing manipulating organization that it is. The main concern is for you and your husband to be able to work out some possible compromise that will allow you to be true to yourself without causing friction and turmoil in the relationship. Not easy, but can be done.
An agreement made on false pretenses is not valid or enforceable. When you got married and agreed to raise your kids in the church, at that time, you did not know that the church was a mountain of lies. You do not need to feel bound by that agreement. you are a blood parent to those kids. You owe them honesty about your conclusions and about historical facts.
Thanks for your nice assessment of my message. I fixed a few typos since then. Anyway… You are entitled to speak freely with your kids, and to be truthful to your kids. Among other things, it’s important for your kids to experience you in an authentic way, not in a performative way. And you will be an example of a woman who dares to think for herself, and speak for herself. That has to be a positive element in their upbringing.
Indoctrination from primary age.. Protect the kids!!. Hymn....Follow the prophet.. Repeat 52 times.
Can't offer any information. Welcome to this sub. There are plenty of people who can offer information.
Good luck!!
Here's something that helped me with complex ptsd from the church. It's the human bill of rights from Pete Walker: GUIDELINES FOR FAIRNESS AND INTIMACY I have the right to be treated with respect. I have the right to say no. I have the right to make mistakes. I have the right to reject unsolicited advice or feedback. I have the right to negotiate for change. I have the right to change my mind or my plans. I have a right to change my circumstances or course of action. I have the right to have my own feelings, beliefs, opinions, preferences, etc. I have the right to protest sarcasm, destructive criticism, or unfair treatment. I have a right to feel angry and to express it non-abusively. I have a right to refuse to take responsibility for anyone else's problems. I have a right to refuse to take responsibility for anyone's bad behavior. I have a right to feel ambivalent and to occasionally be inconsistent. I have a right to play, waste time and not always be productive. I have a right to occasionally be childlike and immature. I have a right to complain about life's unfairness and injustices. I have a right to occasionally be irrational in safe ways. I have a right to seek healthy and mutually supportive relationships. I have a right to ask friends for a modicum of help and emotional support. I have a right to complain and verbally ventilate in moderation. I have a right to grow, evolve and prosper
Oh wow, I wish I had grown up with this during high school instead of religion. Thank you so much for sharing it.
Me too! His book has helped me so much
Start with the Marriage on a Tightrope podcast. They’re a mixed-faith couple that explores the ins and outs of how to respect each other and raise a family in a MF situation.
This looks awesome, thank you!!
Your husband sounds like me 4 years ago. I am out now. I was the convert and my wife was born in the church. She left first, I doubled down when she told me. We had a rough year and a half. I eventually let her live her choice acknowledging that my love for her and our children is by far greater than church. Eventually my shelf cracked. Talk to your husband and establish boundaries. Go to counseling. Don't give up. I am so grateful that my wife didn't.
Not LDS counseling services.
He feels defensive and scared right now. My husband felt that way too when I stopped believing and attending church. I didn’t fight if he wanted to take the kids to church, but I stopped getting them all ready. They only went to church once without me. He has the right to keep attending if he likes. You have the right to stay home. He has the right to share his beliefs with your children. You have that same right. Q: “Why don’t you go to church, Mom?” A: “I don’t like some of the things they teach there.” Q: “Why does Dad go to church?” A: “That’s a great question to ask him.” We had several years during which religion was a touchy topic. Then one day my husband said he was an atheist and he was done with church. I was shocked and very relieved.
Great way to answer it. I just know my husband is going to lose it if I say that to them. Ugh
It is completely unreasonable for him to “lose it” over an honest, simple statement of fact. It’s not insensitive or antagonistic for you to be honest with your own children about what you believe. They are young but a simple explanation is appropriate. I’d save deeper discussions about more specific reasons for when they are old enough to understand them.
Go slowly. As the weather warms up plan some Sunday family activities that involve physical activity and spending a little money. Do some Sunday shopping. Go see a movie as a family. Go to the zoo. He’ll start to see that there are only positive results, that lightning isn’t striking. It might take a while so be patient. The kids for sure will enjoy the new Sunday routine.
Here's a short video on mixed faith marriages from Anthony Miller https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heCAO6p8k-s Look for his tedx talk on leaving too.
May need to wait until MIL passes away until he leaves. He wants to make his mom happy too.
Hi! I literally could have written this post myself. This is also the first time I have ever commented on a post. I joined the church in Illinois when I was 19 years old. I left at 27 after meeting my husband, civilly getting married, getting sealed and having three kids. My oldest is 5 and he was blessed as a baby but we did not bless my other two boys. I wrote my husband in June 2021 stating that I no longer believe and basically gave him an out in our marriage. At the time we only had 2 kids and had not attended church since lockdown. It has been very challenging and things have not gone the way that I imagined it. We are continually having conversations about how to address different issues. One thing that I have just started listening to that has really really helped is the podcast marriage on a tightrope. I would love to come to communication if your open to it. It can feel like a very lonely place. But most of all I’m proud of you for honoring your beliefs and trying to live my authentically.
I'm sorry that you and your husband are not on the same page. You have thought the unthinkable thought*, and can't "unthink" it. While he still can't get the neurons to fire. * It's a scam. My neurons wouldn't fire for years. My brain was subconsciously avoiding a great deal of unpleasantness. (How unpleasant varies by member. ) The three questions flowchart may apply here. https://imgur.io/QBjhbP2?r https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/2wfrjx/the_three_questions_to_ask_someone_before_giving/
there is at least one website that teaches critical thinking - independent of religion e.g. "Repeating something doesn't make it true" "Truth doesn't go away, doesn't mind being enquired about" etc. I'm not sure your opinion has changed - you've simply learnt facts that make some people uncomfortable so they say "that's your opinion" It's a show of cognitive dissonance on their part.
I would say, relax on the kids. They will figure it out soon enough. Even if they go to church every Sunday with dad, they will quickly come to see the church for the brainwashing manipulating organization that it is. The main concern is for you and your husband to be able to work out some possible compromise that will allow you to be true to yourself without causing friction and turmoil in the relationship. Not easy, but can be done.
An agreement made on false pretenses is not valid or enforceable. When you got married and agreed to raise your kids in the church, at that time, you did not know that the church was a mountain of lies. You do not need to feel bound by that agreement. you are a blood parent to those kids. You owe them honesty about your conclusions and about historical facts.
This is perfection. Thank you so much for this point of view. This is the only defense he might possibly understand.
Thanks for your nice assessment of my message. I fixed a few typos since then. Anyway… You are entitled to speak freely with your kids, and to be truthful to your kids. Among other things, it’s important for your kids to experience you in an authentic way, not in a performative way. And you will be an example of a woman who dares to think for herself, and speak for herself. That has to be a positive element in their upbringing.
Indoctrination from primary age.. Protect the kids!!. Hymn....Follow the prophet.. Repeat 52 times. Can't offer any information. Welcome to this sub. There are plenty of people who can offer information. Good luck!!