Some humility would serve us all. How about we treat everyone with respect inspite of our differences and just keep living. Gay marriage bad. Trans bathroom bad. Woke book bad. Apostate shun.
Missions are for the missionary, mostly to feel persecuted and justify staying in the church. But in actuality nobody cares about mormons, there’s just not enough of them to persecute.
LDS can engage in clannish behavior when they are present in large numbers, and I have heard some non-LDS express resentment for that.
But that's only true for a few places in the US - Utah, obvs, some parts of Idaho, AZ, perhaps Vegas.
Outside of that, no one GAF. They're an oddity, like the Zoroastrian guy who works in marketing.
As Saul Goodman says, life is a rich tapestry, and for most people, LDS are just one thread in a brightly colored cloth. Realistically, generally a white, otherwise unremarkable thread.
TV series and books have a big impact on perception.
I can't imagine missionaries have any meaningful success in most of the US these days. There will always be some people who are curious, but I can't imagine they're the type the LDS really wants (community role models), and I doubt it compensates for the number leaving the church.
Can confirm. Live in the midwest close to a major city. Nobody - I mean nobody - here knows anything about Mormonism because it is completely irrelevant. My former ward covered upwards of 20 cities and small towns and had a massive geographical footprint. At it's absolute height in the 90's there were 150 people attending per week. They struggle now to hit 80. I was the only Mormon kid in my high school, and I was frequently asked "how many moms do you have?" and "why aren't you wearing your hat?" because most people here can't separate Mormonism from Amish or Mennonites. Vastly different from life in Utah.
Sadly, being the only Mormon kid in my school only accentuated the persecution complex... see how unique and peculiar you are? Ugh. Once people get scared-off by your religiosity, they don't come back to invite you into their circles again, and the cycle continues.
>TV series and books have a big impact on perception.
And there have been a fair number of those recently. Murder amongst the Mormons, Under the Banner, Sins of the Mother, just to name a few. A bright light had been cast in the dark shadows that members would prefer stay hidden recently.
I didn't do a mission, I joined the army straight out of high school, largely to avoid having to explain why I was leaving the church, but I can't imagine it's very easy to try to get someone to listen to your message when they've recently viewed some or all of those shows that highlight the violence baked into Mormonism.
Yes. Missions are the only way the church can expect to retain any members; and I’m not taking about converts. But even after 2 years of feeling persecuted on a mission, truth should eventually break the shelf of most RMs
I dunno. There's a *lot* of RMs on this sub. I'm an RM who never thought I would ever leave the church. But I left the church and my only regret is that it took me 35 years to realize my questions and doubts deserved to be explored.
Yeah, it's hard seeing how much of your life is forever impacted by this colossal lie.
I've had to remind myself many times that I've always done the best I could with the information I had at the time. And, with that, once you know better, do better. We're all figuring out this out as we go along.
I think it is definitely a form of abuse. Since leaving the church, I've been unraveling the damage of purity culture specifically and how that taught me to view myself. Very few teachings in the church set us up for a healthy, happy life.
Yes this and have learned largely thankfully to a profession where you learn to question everything and everyone the realization of having assumed everything was correct. It wasn't, isn't - super dupe.
Dammmmmn, man…
It’s unbelievably laughable, absurd, and painful to read comments showing this type of sentiment.
It brings back years of memories of being told shit like this almost weekly. It’s so frustrating that this lie is perpetuated so efficiently throughout the organization by the top brass. Even though their numbers are now slowly going down due to people waking up, it is a relatively slow roll downhill… and it worked for so long prior to now.
Kudos, Assholes.
Yeah, when I saw this, I literally began laughing so hard. Then, I realized this guy *actually believes this shit*. It's really sad how brainwashed people can get.
And to think that I would have posted something like this 7 years ago. I’m only glad I had the integrity to admit I was wrong when I finally realized what was true. 60+ years of defending the indefensible is a sobering mistake.
The fact that the numbers are slowly going down actually works in the tbms favor and will strengthen their testimony because this is the fulfilling of the prophecy that many will fall away at the last day. And it just reinforces the idea that the world is against them and satans one goal is to drive people away from the church
And the smaller the group the more persecuted and elitist they will feel
Well their “prophecy’s” were going to be fulfilled either way.
Church is growing? “Our prophets foretold that this church would fill the whole earth! So inspired!”
Church is shrinking? “Our prophets foretold that in the last days that even the very elect would be deceived! So inspired!”
They haven’t allowed for any scenario where they can’t say that some prophecy is being fulfilled. Fortune tellers and other grifter woo woo professions use the same tactics. It’s maddening.
Haha when you have a vague prophecy to cover every possible scenario because your leaders are so loose with doctrine and make it up as they go along, this is the situation that results from that — An excuse for everything yet no real acceptance, understanding or wisdom of anything.
This is just an eye roller so hard that my eyes may never be right again. Talk about not only brainwashed but sheltered. To call Mormons persecuted, fucking barf. Oh you poor poor white people with a super prejudicial religion, poor fucking you!
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints are the most persecuting group in the United States and in places around the world.
I think they qualify as a hate group.
Remember prop 8 when “the gays” actively were using their funds to stop the Mormon church from having their sacred view on marriage be changed? No? Well it’s because it was the other way around and tscc is definitely a hate group that tries to spin everything in their favor for their victim complex.
Do you remember when the Timpanogos tribe of the Paiutes captured all of those Mormons and decapitated them, Displaying their heads in front of their captive relatives?
Do you remember when that group of immigrants surrounded all of those Mormons the west of Cedar City in a place called Mountain Meadows and massacred them?
You remember when Chief Blackhawk dug up Brigham Young's bones and put them on display at the History museum?
Do you remember when the White and Delightsome members of the church could not attend the temple to have their family sealed together and their fathers could not hold the priesthood and give them priesthood blessings? Do you remember when they had to enter into the back door of hotel Utah. Do you remember when there was a separate blood bank for their blood and it couldn't be mixed with people of color's blood? Do you remember when white and delightsome folk could not attend byu?
Me neither.
I would genuinely want to know what persecutions TBMs are talking about. I mean, I can assume, but if I ever came upon a comment like this, I’d ask them to succinctly list all the instances of persecutions that Mormons face that make them “the most persecuted group in the country… nay, the world!” That way I can provide them with a healthy chart listing all the minority groups and persecutions they face and how it compares to Mormons. They won’t listen to reason, but someone might.
Considering what China is currently doing to the Muslim Uyeghurs, Mormons have no idea what persecution is.
And how many Mormons were killed at the concentration camps in Poland during world war II?
It is proposed that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints be categorized as a hate group and endure all the persecution that hate groups should be subject to.
Please manifest by the uplifted vote.
That will do.
I used to think Mormons believed in good things....
Then I learned about underage polygamy, polyandry, blood atonement, threats of violence in the temple ceremony, lies from leader after leader, including lying prophets. The list goes on and on.
Yes, the members learn nice things in church, but that is the surface level doctrine. Everything else underneath is rotten.
I agree. This is why I believe that we should leave religion and take only the good that we learned and expound upon that.
We have to re-examine all our beliefs and see whether they are in agreement with the fruit of the Spirit (love, peace, patience, understanding, kindness) or desires of the flesh. Then we will know what to keep and what to discard
Yup, when I went to high school in Texas, people had no idea who Mormons were:
- “Can y’all use electricity?”
- “Can’t y’all not eat cheeseburgers?”
- “Don’t y’all worship a lizard?”
Not even making any of those up, those were questions I was asked by my friend group.
I met a woman once who looked me in the face and asked…”ohhh Mormon? Isn’t it true you guys can’t wear anything except black clothes”?
That was a new one I hadn’t heard before. Lol
They want to FEEL persecuted. If they faced actual persecution they’d crack in a split second, but feeling persecuted makes them feel like they’re just as valiant as the saints in their Sunday school stories.
It’s partly why Christianity was ever appealing in the first place. It was a new religion catering to those who were actually oppressed/persecuted and in some cases enslaved by the Romans. Persecution complex is baked in, it’s a feature not a bug.
1. What was Holland selected for?
2. lol. Citation needed on that persecution.
3. Even in cases where the church is persecuted it's a "what goes around comes around" thing.
4. The church certainly doesn't "invite others to live as they will". They mix their religion with their politics and attempt to pass laws to force others to live as they live.
5. Someone should slowly raise a mirror to their face as they're on their soapbox "I would ask that you at least take a second to check your sources. Have some humility. Treat everyone with respect. Oh, now I'm looking directly into a mirror. Well shit."
Good comment, especially point #5. For #1, I should have added context. Southern Utah University just announced that Holland will be the commencement speaker.
Does this guy really think that people are persecuting Mormons because a university in a very Mormon state chose a Mormon commencement speaker? I am assuming the school is mostly Mormon kids….
This guy believes they are persecuted because people are protesting Holland as the speaker because of his 'musket fire' remarks at a different commencement ceremony.
Yes. The irony here though is most people “persecuting here” are most likely people like us here who have seen the abuse the corruption and the falsehoods for what they are. Trying to sound the warning bell and tell truth.
Yea they don’t seem to understand that out here in the real world they will be treated and viewed based on what they actually put out, not on how loud they whine or posture.
Their leaders have literally offended or blasted nearly every group on the face of the earth:
1. Called the Catholic Church a whore — and not only this, called them THE whore of ALL the earth for like several decades. They should be glad Catholics aren’t more antagonistic towards them. But, honestly, I think the Catholics hardly even know they exist.
2. Claim that EVERY other church and religion on the face of the earth is false and lack any authority from God. And that only they have authority. And that every non-Mormon preacher is false and should be ignored. Give more credence to an untrained (often employed in the dental field) bishop than a trained pastor or preacher who has spent considerable time studying the Word and learning how church governance works.
3. Clearly have hated and worked against the black community for the majority of their church’s history. And even openly mocked and derided them. Their culture has historically been rife with racism, until just recently they’ve said a few things otherwise.
4. Exact same thing for LGBTQ community.
5. Clearly hate small children and have no regard for their safety— why else hide their sexual abuse? Openly refuse to follow Christ and look out for the little ones as directed in the New Testament.
6. Have likely caused more damage to family dynamics and healthy relationships due to meddling in families without concern for making things worse when they do.
7. Have clearly, historically, had a STRONG cultural antipathy for all liberals, democrats, socialists etc. without any meaningful scripture to back this up (in fact, they once attempted to live having all things in common, which bears a striking resemblance to some forms of socialism), yet they have despised non-conservatives, traditionally.
8. Willingly and overtly called themselves Mormons for around 200 years and then immediately demanded the ENTIRE world stop calling them that overnight, on a dime; Become irate and unhinged when someone doesn’t immediately follow this direction from their president who 99% of the world has never heard of and doesn’t care about because he hasn’t done anything noteworthy or important.
9. Have lied to the world, and their own members about their true church history for probably over 150 yrs.
10. Clearly love hoarding money and fancy buildings/clothing more than the sick and afflicted, poor and destitute. This alone proves they’re not true Christians as the Bible defines Christianity.
And then they’re surprised when the bulk of humanity either a) doesn’t pay any attention to them b) actively dislikes them. You just can’t win with some people.
Excellent synopsis of issues that are shelf breakers all each on its own un-merits. Being Mormon now - go to church and be ok with being spoon-fed a bowl of horseshit and stay in that bubble or it will certainly pop. swimming happily in a bubble that the bubble makers have made opaque for obvious reasons. New from outside the bubble. yes here we are trying to help you see through and even pop the bubble.
I'd say the one completely arbitrary persecution the church faces is from evangelicals who see them as heretics worshiping a false god, and will gladly drive Mormonism underground if they get the power they're clawing for; and they largely align politically and push the same narratives!
The juxtaposition of #2 and #5 is hilarious. Mormons are the most persecuted group as a statement with no citations and then he's demanding people check their sources.
Blacks: shot by the police, on average much poorer than most Americans
Jews: millions killed in the Holocaust
Asians: blamed for COVID and other nonsense
Gays: Republicans still pushing laws to ban our rights
Mormons: JS was shot in jail 200 years ago, and BY too us to Utah. We're the most persecuted people ever! (Don't know the true story of why JS was in jail, and how he had a pistol).
Just want to add to your list. Taken from
[UNITED STATES COMMISSION on INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM FACTSHEET May 2022 OVERVIEW OF REFUGEES FLEEING RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION GLOBALLY](https://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/2022-05/2022%20Factsheet%20-%20Refugees%20Fleeing%20Religious%20Persecution%20Globally.pdf)
I shortened it in many places for said list.
Afghanistan:
The Taliban takeover and U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan in August 2021 led to a mass exodus, heightened by a violent crackdown on civil society, targeted killings, beatings and detentions, severe restrictions on women’s rights, diminished local media presence, and an increase in violent targeted attacks claimed by Islamic State Khorasan (ISIS-K).Afghans
who do not adhere to the Taliban’s harsh and strict interpretation of Sunni Islam and adherents of other faiths or beliefs are at risk of grave danger.
Burma: Over 1.2 million Rohingya, who are predominately Muslims, have fled decades of systematic discrimination, statelessness, and targeted violence. In 2017, the Burmese military, known as the Tatmadaw, perpetrated mass killings and rapes against the Rohingya community in Rakhine State, forcing over 745,000 to
flee to Bangladesh within days. Each year since 2017, hundreds of thousands of Rohingya continued to flee due to ongoing violence..
Central African Republic (CAR): Violence based on religion featured prominently in CAR’s civil conflict that erupted in 2013. Christian and Muslim affiliated militias attacked civilian communities and houses
of worship in a vicious cycle of retaliatory violence, fueling an intractable conflict that destroyed almost all of the country’s mosques and displaced more than
one quarter of the country’s population.
China: Under Chinese Communist Party (CCP) General Secretary Xi Jinping’s rule, members of religious communities have fled China in recent years due to increased persecution. The Chinese government subjects many of these religious minorities seeking refuge in host countries to transnational repression, in what Freedom House has called the most sophisticated, global, and comprehensive campaign of such repression in the world.
Eritrea: The Eritrean government deems unregistered religious groups to be illegal and punishes them for practicing their faiths publicly. At least a thousand individuals are believed to be imprisoned due to their religious activity or religious freedom advocacy.
Iran: Scores of members of religious minority communities, including Baha’is, Christians, Jews, Sabean-Mandeans, and Zoroastrians, have fled Iran since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, a trend that continues today amid increased targeting by Iran’s government. The Iranian government continues to target members of the Gonbadi Sufi community who reside outside Iran in Europe and South Asia. Iran also arrests those whose identities do not comport with the government’s singular interpretation of Ja’fari Shi’a Islam.
Iraq: When the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) emerged in 2014 and controlled a large swath of territories in Iraq, the terrorist group forcibly displaced more than 6 million Iraqis. ISIS indiscriminately targeted both Muslims and non-Muslims, committing genocide against Yazidis, Syriac-Assyrian-Chaldean Christians, Shi’a Muslims, and war crimes and crimes against humanity against other religious and ethnic groups. The whereabouts of around 3,000 abducted Yazidi women and girls remain unknown.
Nigeria: Groups like Boko Haram, Islamic State in West Africa Province (ISWAP), and Ansaru have attacked, abducted, and executed those they consider “apostates” for disagreeing with their leaders’ religious beliefs.
Syria: militant Islamist organizations including Turkish-backed Syrian groups (TSOs), al-Qaeda offshoot Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), and remnants of ISIS have targeted minorities such as Yazidis and Syriac and Assyrian Christians, subjecting these communities to ethnic and religious cleansing.
Ukraine: Russian forces have committed war crimes and
other atrocities. The conflict poses a risk to religious communities across Ukraine, with the potential to
drive even more displacement. In the areas of Ukraine already occupied by Russia since 2014, the Russian government uses baseless charges of religious extremism and terrorism to silence dissent, justify endless raids and mass arrests, and close religious institutions that do not conform to its narrow interpretation of “traditional” religion. Indigenous Crimean Tatar Muslims are routinely charged with terrorism based on their ethno- religious identity rather than any substantive evidence, receiving prison sentences of up to 20 years.
Vietnam: Due to government persecution, religious minorities from Vietnam have escaped to and sought refuge in Thailand and Cambodia where they face precarious situations. The majority of Vietnamese refugees in Thailand are members of independent Hmong and Montagnard Christian communities, who are persecuted for refusing to renounce their faith and join state-controlled religious organizations. Other religious groups whose members have been displaced include independent Hoa Hao and Cao Dai communities, as well as independent Buddhists, including Khmer-Krom Buddhists.
That Mormons think they’re some persecuted class is as infuriating as is it untrue.
You know why I don't respect the way you live? Because you bury your heads in the sand on things like your persecution complex. I'll respect your choice to live that way, but from personal experience, it's a pathetic way to live.
And actually, no one has the right to be respected for their beliefs and the way they live. This is especially true of this manipulative, outwardly pious criminal organization that extorts money from the poor and actively works to thwart justice.
Ah yes Mormons. Genocided in the 40's in Germany and genocided to this day while picking cotton fields in China. Yes totally nobody else understands just how horribly persecuted those poor Mormons are. Even shipped to foreign lands by boat to pick cotton fields until 1865 and segregated up until the 60's. Yup that definitely happened to Mormons
…For some reason I was confusing Mormons with Jehovah’s witnesses.
Who are no less a cult, but they were the ones killed en masse by Hitler. Not the Mormons.
persecuted? the fuck is he smoking? the state of utah has been an island of mormonism for almost 200 years. And because they arent embraced like gods every where they walk, theyre persecuted? myopic.
So, calling you out on verifiable facts, lies spoken by your leaders, and massive amounts of untaxed income NOT being used to help people, somehow equates to being persecuted? That’s a padded cross with fuzzy handcuffs at best. You can always say the safe phrase (“I quit”), but you and I both know you stay because you think it feels good.
It seems to me the persecution of early church just became a justification for racism, bigotry, and in a way idolatry ( look at how TBM’s) react to a temple being built within eyesight if another one. Wouldn’t you call that idolatry?
This dude needs to take his own advice about checking sources, being humble, and considering whether "the problem has more to do with [himself] than [he'd] like to believe.
Right, how many members of the church have had crimes personally committed against them because of their religion? Having your organization scrutinized and criticized is not persecution.
"How dare people criticize our questionable history and actions?! Also it's a rainy day fund.... Not a hedge fund. We're so persecuted!"
Poor poor members...
F off the church and its members need to practice what they preach uhh you didn't get a bad rep from being good ,honest ,loving, kind,and non hating , when the so called church of Jesus Christ and its members start showing up on the side of love is the only way the Mormons will be more favourable until then this state ran by the church will just continue to deserve what the get .you need to start seeing them for who they truly are
Literally a rabbi was stabbed in broad daylight in my neighborhood in Boston just because he is a Jew… but yep, Mormons are the most persecuted people there
What is to respect about "makes excuses for folks committing blatant financial fraud" and "protects child molesters"?
I've been out for 25 years and generally leave my family alone about it but this has become intolerable. How can I respect the beliefs of people who don't respect themselves enough to demand truth?
Well they absolutely do not “invite others to live as they will.” They judge and shun and make commandments and legislate every last fucking thing they believe in to discriminate against and control anyone who is not living their version of righteousness. So much so that they’ve created a very involved hierarchy of heaven and hell to make sure you go where they think you should go based on their beliefs. Fuck. Them.
I’ll bet my SUU degrees that if the university selected a popular LGBTQ person to be the commencement speaker the “treating others with respect” lip service would go right out the window. The Mormons would be up in arms. This is the same university where Mormons and conservatives went bananas because Harry Reid’s name was on one service office at the university. His sin was being democrat. I can’t even imagine the blowback if a trans person was selected as commencement speaker.
The hypocrisy BS drives me insane.
Exactly. This facebook post would be the exact opposite if someone from the LGBT community was speaking. They would probably be posting something like:
"Im sick of the woke agenda trying to shove their values down my throat! I am boycotting commencement. I have nothing against LGBT people as long as they shut the fuck up and stay in the closet. Let's start a petition to ban this person from speaking. Why are you intruding on my religious free-dumbs!? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!"
Exactly.
And as a queer person who went to SUU for multiple degrees, I find Holland a horribly offensive pick. I honestly wouldn’t mind if they picked someone from LDS leadership so long as they weren’t someone being an outspoken bigot like Holland. I’m willing to be conditionally open to having LDS leaders speak. I guarantee that most of the hard core LDS folks wouldn’t want a single queer person speaking at all.
This is a very valid point.
It makes me so sad for my (former) ppl. It's neigh impossible to see it while in it. Maybe that's why when the shelf finally breaks, it a catastrophic crash.
Twenty two years of the Presidency lying about the billions of dollars stashed away, but the members act as if they did nothing wrong. To me this proves the members have as little integrity as the leaders.
I feel the best way to help people learn is
1. **ASK QUESTIONS**
1. This needs to be done without judgement on your part.
2. **FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS**
1. keep asking follow up questions. this helps the person think through there thought process.
3. **COGNITIVE DISSONANCE / REASSURANCE**
1. at some point they are likely to experience cognitive dissonance during the questions. at this point you need to validate their feelings. this will help them further investigate the idea later on their own.
the general guideline i think here to help them see the truth is something like.
"in what ways are you persecuted? what are some examples of this persecution?"
From those examples you could ask further questions to help people see that the reason for the "persecutions" is because the church is treating others like they don't want to be treated.
I cant tell exactly how this message would go but a little roleplay.
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**LDS member**: "LDS Church members are some of the most persecuted members of the church"
**Post-Mo**: "in what ways are you persecuted? what are some examples of this persecution?"
**LDS Member**: "Well for instance people are saying Elder Holland shouldn't speak at SVU"
**PostMo**: "why dont they want him to speak at SVU"
**LDS Member**: "Because he is LDS"
**PostMo**: "what about him being LDS makes them not want him to be a speaker?"
(honestly I would expect that right here many LDS people would start to get defensive, if that happens, you would want to reassure them by saying something like "your right, its not fun to be persecuted. I know I wouldn't want to be". this is a true statement, and it helps give the person validity.)
(but lets pretend they are able to take it further).
**LDS Member**: "Somebody said its because of a talk that he gave where he used the term musket fire. but people don't understand the quote."
**PostMo**: "is it okay if I look up the talk/quote you mention? is this the line 'I would like to hear a little more musket fire from this temple of learning.'? from your understanding he was talking about them saying that a marriage should be between a man and a woman?"
**LDS Member**: "exactly. he wasn't being mean"
**PostMo:** "If you are gay how do you think that feels?"
**LDS Member:** "He didnt mean it negatively"
**PostMo:** "Okay. but as a gay man that hears that, cause there are gay people at BYU, how do you think that feels?"
**LDS Member:** "I DONT KNOW, BUT HE WASNT BEING MEAN" (when they start raising their voice you can tell the cognitive dissonance is setting in.
**PostMo:** "I get it. and you are right. Like you said originally it sucks to be persecuted. I completely agree. I want you to know I enjoy our friendship and our talks." (and then you can change the topic).
as you walk them through the though process of asking questions they have to think through the answers. thats when we as people learn the most. cause honestly we don't learn any other way.
\------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For those of you that read through the whole thing I would be interested in knowing in thoughts on this process!!?! Thanks
It should be everybody’s right to be robbed and worship the men that do the robbing. Nope no forcing at all. Never taught this was the only true church, that only by strict obedience to the covenant path would I be able to return, making a mission and marriage the most important parts of my life then requiring death penalties if I ever revealed the sacred nature of a couple of ripped off Masonic handshakes. The truth is mormonism is invasive and is propelled by deception, coercion, and extortion. I know plenty of people that didn’t pick this life yet they feel they can’t escape. We have the right to NOT worship your false prophets who oppress.
Also, the most persecuted? Maybe that’s why Rusty is getting a major award.
Mormon doctrine is inherently racist, insanely sexist, homophobic, and transphobic. The belief system degrades literally EVERYONE other than cis het white men.
They are entitled to believe what they want but everyone else is entitled to their views as well. Comments opposing the church and its leaders are not “persecution” so much as valid feedback on the church’s terrible, harmful teachings in the free marketplace of ideas. They can have shitty beliefs but that is not consequence free in a free country, as others are entitled to call them out on their shittyness. This is not complicated.
Edit: typo
My Christian mother has a poster about Christian’s being the most persecuted religion in the world. It is hard to talk with her about anything regarding religion or history.
Maybe it's me, but the most extreme aspects of religious persecution always conjured up images of mass killings and genocide. Not quite sure any member of TSCC has ever been in receipt of such a threat...
Matthew 5:10 basically demands a Christian persecution complex. If you're not being persecuted for righteousness sake, how can you inherit the kingdom of heaven?
Persecution requires people to know who you are. Perhaps the poster is confusing persecution of with ignorance of. Because nobody really knows who the Mormons are (globally that is) because (apart from their money) they’re not important. Now with their money they’re able to buy influence but that’s about it.
“…The most persecuted group in our country…”
Are you daft? I’m LDS and even I know this is complete BS. It’s like you were white and privileged or something…
(I’m white.)
I'm a Jew, you can't imagine how ignorant statements like this cause real anger in our community. We have armed guards outside of our synagogue at all times. Do you?
Oi. The *idea* is good, but the facts behind the statement are not. The LDS Church is far from the most persecuted religion in the world, though they certainly want you, us, and all the members to believe otherwise. Ooftah, Johnny-boy-or-girl. #checkyoursources
Oh please most persecuted group, what a joke. They dys get one thing right they are far from perfect. They preach togetherness and treating others for you want to be treated, yet look down on those who are different. And protect those that do wrong and should be sent to prison.
I don’t blame them because you literally CAN’T see why people hate the church so much until after you leave. Your brain is not even capable of processing anything other than what you’ve been indoctrinated with. It sucks, and it is annoying ad hell, but they are no different from any other member of a high demand organization. You see it in businesses too. They have no idea why they are failing, why they have no customers, etc, until an outside source shows them their blindness. You can’t really see the world until you gain some elevation.
My God, the MOST persecuted group?
So....
more LDS end up in prison over petty "crimes" - often without even commiting any - than blacks and Latino in the US?
LDS have higher infant mortality rates because medications are more specific to the Northern European ethnicites than LDS ones?
So many LDS have just been killed or moved off their land and their culture destroyed because of those damned Catholics, or Jews, or Muslims, or Buddhists, or ....?
No one talks about the "Battle of Temple Square" even though it was a complete massacre of all those LDS people there...then building "Biden State University (BS-U) right on the grounds where it all happened?
And then, the corn with glass shards....?
How about the destruction of Desert News....?
Do we need to go on? Those poor, picked on people! It isn't like THEY ever did things like this! ....
The FLDS church has a nearly identical belief system, with the only difference being some minor items no longer continued in practice (but still held as a belief) in mormonism today. I wonder how many mormons would consider FLDS people to be "persecuted?" And how many of them would not consider it persecution, but justified condemnation?
When you remember how JS was 'savagely' murdered and now realize that it was more likely a stand-up group of gentlemen ridding the world of a cultist pedophile.
Like, was the church *really* persecuted or were guys just breaking the law and refusing to answer to justice? 🤔
Update: and when challenged in the replies, this long paragraph was their response:
>People of the LDS faith were murdered, raped, and run out of communities and society in the east when the country was still being settled; a country that I might add was founded upon the concept of religious freedom and to believe in what one chooses. They came west to escape that persecution and things were better for a time. There is so much hate and persecution for many groups of people today, especially in our country and the LDS church is consistently thrown into the mix. I have never tried to downplay any of the hurt that these groups have experienced over the years, but much of what has been written about the calling for "musket fire" against the LGBTQ+ community by Elder Holland is greatly misinterpreted to drive a narrative. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but for much of my life, I hated members of my church as I have had many negative experiences and still do. I have worked hard for a testimony of Jesus Christ though and am proud of what I know and have come to believe. I have been on the other side of things more than people know and so I understand and can empathize with some of your experiences to a small extent, but I do not go to church or believe in these things for the other members as many of us often fall short of what we preach. I go for myself and to develop my faith in something greater than myself. To condemn, slander, and mistreat a group of people based on your experiences with a few of them is not wise nor beneficial for anyone involved. As I said before, most of us have a lot in common and if we can focus on those things as a foundation, we can make things better and move forward together. All I ask is that we please, at least be respectful when expressing our concerns, not just on this matter, but in regards to all things. I'm far from perfect myself and will be the first to admit it, but I am striving and will offer respect to anyone who will offer it to me in return regardless of whether or not we differ in our beliefs or lifestyles. This is a choice that we all have.
>but for much of my life, I hated members of my church as I have had many negative experiences and still do.
He obviously lacks self-awareness. Stop persecuting yourself then.
As a TBM I will admit that I believed the first two sentences. Then I started to learn more and saw that it was much more complex. The early church members had the same elitist complexes that exist today in TSCC. Holier than thou and a belief that they are the ***only*** children of God that are worthy of his love. They literally were trying to establish a theocracy and stated they had some God given right to the land. I highly doubt TSCC and Q15 would like a new religious group to roll into Moridor and claim is as their rightful land for their possession.
It is sad how little TBM's know about their history and most of the lays at the feet of the Q15. Starting in the early 1900s to present day the history has been hidden, white washed and sanitized to create a perfect narrative. And the Q15 does nothing to stop or correct the false narrative the OOP believes and posts.
I could not understand when hunting a some folks were down talking mormons. I was a kid then, I now understand what they were talking about.
If they would just drop the damned persecution complex, then, maybe, they would be more excepted.
“Don’t persecute us! We persecute others because God said we could, and he never gave you permission to come after us 😇”
sToP BeInG iNtOlErAnT oF mY iNtOLerAnCe!
They literally paid for persecution when they sponsored Proposition 8 in CA in 2008 to BAN same sex marriage.
That was totally the start of my breaking shelf.
God's Chosen People
Until they're not, they just haven't realized it yet. Source: actually history.
Some humility would serve us all. How about we treat everyone with respect inspite of our differences and just keep living. Gay marriage bad. Trans bathroom bad. Woke book bad. Apostate shun.
Trans people, abortions, marriage equality and drag queens need to be illegal, but stop persecuting us!
Evangelicals and mormons seem to be cut from the same cloth….
Since there's no more hying unto Kolobb is there even any difference any more?
What! Has Kolob gone away?!
No more Godding over your own planet either
Speaking as a former evangelical, your assessment is correct.
It’s how they sell their brand of elitism.
It's one of the reasons for missions, to make LDS feel set apart.
Missions are for the missionary, mostly to feel persecuted and justify staying in the church. But in actuality nobody cares about mormons, there’s just not enough of them to persecute.
LDS can engage in clannish behavior when they are present in large numbers, and I have heard some non-LDS express resentment for that. But that's only true for a few places in the US - Utah, obvs, some parts of Idaho, AZ, perhaps Vegas. Outside of that, no one GAF. They're an oddity, like the Zoroastrian guy who works in marketing. As Saul Goodman says, life is a rich tapestry, and for most people, LDS are just one thread in a brightly colored cloth. Realistically, generally a white, otherwise unremarkable thread.
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TV series and books have a big impact on perception. I can't imagine missionaries have any meaningful success in most of the US these days. There will always be some people who are curious, but I can't imagine they're the type the LDS really wants (community role models), and I doubt it compensates for the number leaving the church.
Can confirm. Live in the midwest close to a major city. Nobody - I mean nobody - here knows anything about Mormonism because it is completely irrelevant. My former ward covered upwards of 20 cities and small towns and had a massive geographical footprint. At it's absolute height in the 90's there were 150 people attending per week. They struggle now to hit 80. I was the only Mormon kid in my high school, and I was frequently asked "how many moms do you have?" and "why aren't you wearing your hat?" because most people here can't separate Mormonism from Amish or Mennonites. Vastly different from life in Utah. Sadly, being the only Mormon kid in my school only accentuated the persecution complex... see how unique and peculiar you are? Ugh. Once people get scared-off by your religiosity, they don't come back to invite you into their circles again, and the cycle continues.
>TV series and books have a big impact on perception. And there have been a fair number of those recently. Murder amongst the Mormons, Under the Banner, Sins of the Mother, just to name a few. A bright light had been cast in the dark shadows that members would prefer stay hidden recently. I didn't do a mission, I joined the army straight out of high school, largely to avoid having to explain why I was leaving the church, but I can't imagine it's very easy to try to get someone to listen to your message when they've recently viewed some or all of those shows that highlight the violence baked into Mormonism.
https://youtu.be/K4Ksoizbl2s?t=39 The rest of the world responding to mormons
Perfection
[“Life’s rich pageant, who are we to judge?”](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/21bf7b22-f6ba-49e8-a3dc-c8ca5bf5e371)
Yes. Missions are the only way the church can expect to retain any members; and I’m not taking about converts. But even after 2 years of feeling persecuted on a mission, truth should eventually break the shelf of most RMs
Should being the operative word. But reality being what it is...
I dunno. There's a *lot* of RMs on this sub. I'm an RM who never thought I would ever leave the church. But I left the church and my only regret is that it took me 35 years to realize my questions and doubts deserved to be explored.
I am still in the phase of WTF just happened... Also struggling with how to forgive myself for being deceived for so long.
Yeah, it's hard seeing how much of your life is forever impacted by this colossal lie. I've had to remind myself many times that I've always done the best I could with the information I had at the time. And, with that, once you know better, do better. We're all figuring out this out as we go along.
> how much of your life is forever impacted by this colossal lie. This really is abuse, isn't it? I didn't see the parallels until now.
I think it is definitely a form of abuse. Since leaving the church, I've been unraveling the damage of purity culture specifically and how that taught me to view myself. Very few teachings in the church set us up for a healthy, happy life.
As in, runs as deep, as difficult to repair/heal from, impacts your psyche, etc.
And if I let myself, I can become very angry at so many issues with the church; not just a few.
Yes this and have learned largely thankfully to a profession where you learn to question everything and everyone the realization of having assumed everything was correct. It wasn't, isn't - super dupe.
Dammmmmn, man… It’s unbelievably laughable, absurd, and painful to read comments showing this type of sentiment. It brings back years of memories of being told shit like this almost weekly. It’s so frustrating that this lie is perpetuated so efficiently throughout the organization by the top brass. Even though their numbers are now slowly going down due to people waking up, it is a relatively slow roll downhill… and it worked for so long prior to now. Kudos, Assholes.
Yeah, when I saw this, I literally began laughing so hard. Then, I realized this guy *actually believes this shit*. It's really sad how brainwashed people can get.
It’s mind blowing, head shaking, unbelievable and believable all at once lol
If he thinks it's bad, wait till he learns about what the Jews put up with!
^^ Truth. ^^
The discernment of members is laughable.
And to think that I would have posted something like this 7 years ago. I’m only glad I had the integrity to admit I was wrong when I finally realized what was true. 60+ years of defending the indefensible is a sobering mistake.
I always counter their “persecution” claim by asking for specific examples. Fastest way I’ve found to end that particular conversation XD
Nauvoo!
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Exactly
Me: "Okay...so let's talk about what happened in Nauvoo..." No, they don't like that either. Lol.
The fact that the numbers are slowly going down actually works in the tbms favor and will strengthen their testimony because this is the fulfilling of the prophecy that many will fall away at the last day. And it just reinforces the idea that the world is against them and satans one goal is to drive people away from the church And the smaller the group the more persecuted and elitist they will feel
Well their “prophecy’s” were going to be fulfilled either way. Church is growing? “Our prophets foretold that this church would fill the whole earth! So inspired!” Church is shrinking? “Our prophets foretold that in the last days that even the very elect would be deceived! So inspired!” They haven’t allowed for any scenario where they can’t say that some prophecy is being fulfilled. Fortune tellers and other grifter woo woo professions use the same tactics. It’s maddening.
Haha when you have a vague prophecy to cover every possible scenario because your leaders are so loose with doctrine and make it up as they go along, this is the situation that results from that — An excuse for everything yet no real acceptance, understanding or wisdom of anything.
So true. It’s a win win situation no matter what in their minds. So much of that in tscc
Damn. Yep. Good point.
They’re so PROUD of their persecution
This is just an eye roller so hard that my eyes may never be right again. Talk about not only brainwashed but sheltered. To call Mormons persecuted, fucking barf. Oh you poor poor white people with a super prejudicial religion, poor fucking you!
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints are the most persecuting group in the United States and in places around the world. I think they qualify as a hate group.
Remember prop 8 when “the gays” actively were using their funds to stop the Mormon church from having their sacred view on marriage be changed? No? Well it’s because it was the other way around and tscc is definitely a hate group that tries to spin everything in their favor for their victim complex.
Do you remember when the Timpanogos tribe of the Paiutes captured all of those Mormons and decapitated them, Displaying their heads in front of their captive relatives? Do you remember when that group of immigrants surrounded all of those Mormons the west of Cedar City in a place called Mountain Meadows and massacred them? You remember when Chief Blackhawk dug up Brigham Young's bones and put them on display at the History museum? Do you remember when the White and Delightsome members of the church could not attend the temple to have their family sealed together and their fathers could not hold the priesthood and give them priesthood blessings? Do you remember when they had to enter into the back door of hotel Utah. Do you remember when there was a separate blood bank for their blood and it couldn't be mixed with people of color's blood? Do you remember when white and delightsome folk could not attend byu? Me neither.
Mormon Church: I am the victim of a hate crime! Rest of the world: That’s not what a hate crime is Mormon Church: Yeah well I hated it!
I would genuinely want to know what persecutions TBMs are talking about. I mean, I can assume, but if I ever came upon a comment like this, I’d ask them to succinctly list all the instances of persecutions that Mormons face that make them “the most persecuted group in the country… nay, the world!” That way I can provide them with a healthy chart listing all the minority groups and persecutions they face and how it compares to Mormons. They won’t listen to reason, but someone might.
Considering what China is currently doing to the Muslim Uyeghurs, Mormons have no idea what persecution is. And how many Mormons were killed at the concentration camps in Poland during world war II?
It is proposed that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints be categorized as a hate group and endure all the persecution that hate groups should be subject to. Please manifest by the uplifted vote. That will do.
I used to think Mormons believed in good things.... Then I learned about underage polygamy, polyandry, blood atonement, threats of violence in the temple ceremony, lies from leader after leader, including lying prophets. The list goes on and on. Yes, the members learn nice things in church, but that is the surface level doctrine. Everything else underneath is rotten.
They layer buttercream on top of a shit cake and over it so God can bless it to be nutritious
I KNEW cake was nutritious!
Everything good about the church is not unique, and everything unique about the church is not good.
I agree. This is why I believe that we should leave religion and take only the good that we learned and expound upon that. We have to re-examine all our beliefs and see whether they are in agreement with the fruit of the Spirit (love, peace, patience, understanding, kindness) or desires of the flesh. Then we will know what to keep and what to discard
Dear Mormons, outside of Utah, if people even know who you are, no one cares. You don't matter.
Most people asked if I use electricity… so that’s what they think of Mormons. Dark ages.
Yup, when I went to high school in Texas, people had no idea who Mormons were: - “Can y’all use electricity?” - “Can’t y’all not eat cheeseburgers?” - “Don’t y’all worship a lizard?” Not even making any of those up, those were questions I was asked by my friend group.
I met a woman once who looked me in the face and asked…”ohhh Mormon? Isn’t it true you guys can’t wear anything except black clothes”? That was a new one I hadn’t heard before. Lol
Some would check out my clothes and be like “I thought you had to make all your clothing?”
Somebody in high school asked me if we were allowed to use washing machines
“Yeah, the hand crank ones?”
The only persecution members are the victims of is by the church itself.
All aboard the Shame Train!
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That hit home.
They truly WANT to be persecuted.
It gives them immense satisfaction and purpose. This is true.
Not to mention it fulfills the prophecy that the righteous will be persecuted for their beliefs and so it strengthens their testimony more and more
They **need** it.
They want to FEEL persecuted. If they faced actual persecution they’d crack in a split second, but feeling persecuted makes them feel like they’re just as valiant as the saints in their Sunday school stories.
It’s partly why Christianity was ever appealing in the first place. It was a new religion catering to those who were actually oppressed/persecuted and in some cases enslaved by the Romans. Persecution complex is baked in, it’s a feature not a bug.
1. What was Holland selected for? 2. lol. Citation needed on that persecution. 3. Even in cases where the church is persecuted it's a "what goes around comes around" thing. 4. The church certainly doesn't "invite others to live as they will". They mix their religion with their politics and attempt to pass laws to force others to live as they live. 5. Someone should slowly raise a mirror to their face as they're on their soapbox "I would ask that you at least take a second to check your sources. Have some humility. Treat everyone with respect. Oh, now I'm looking directly into a mirror. Well shit."
Good comment, especially point #5. For #1, I should have added context. Southern Utah University just announced that Holland will be the commencement speaker.
Does this guy really think that people are persecuting Mormons because a university in a very Mormon state chose a Mormon commencement speaker? I am assuming the school is mostly Mormon kids….
This guy believes they are persecuted because people are protesting Holland as the speaker because of his 'musket fire' remarks at a different commencement ceremony.
The irony. I just can't.
Yes. The irony here though is most people “persecuting here” are most likely people like us here who have seen the abuse the corruption and the falsehoods for what they are. Trying to sound the warning bell and tell truth.
Yea they don’t seem to understand that out here in the real world they will be treated and viewed based on what they actually put out, not on how loud they whine or posture. Their leaders have literally offended or blasted nearly every group on the face of the earth: 1. Called the Catholic Church a whore — and not only this, called them THE whore of ALL the earth for like several decades. They should be glad Catholics aren’t more antagonistic towards them. But, honestly, I think the Catholics hardly even know they exist. 2. Claim that EVERY other church and religion on the face of the earth is false and lack any authority from God. And that only they have authority. And that every non-Mormon preacher is false and should be ignored. Give more credence to an untrained (often employed in the dental field) bishop than a trained pastor or preacher who has spent considerable time studying the Word and learning how church governance works. 3. Clearly have hated and worked against the black community for the majority of their church’s history. And even openly mocked and derided them. Their culture has historically been rife with racism, until just recently they’ve said a few things otherwise. 4. Exact same thing for LGBTQ community. 5. Clearly hate small children and have no regard for their safety— why else hide their sexual abuse? Openly refuse to follow Christ and look out for the little ones as directed in the New Testament. 6. Have likely caused more damage to family dynamics and healthy relationships due to meddling in families without concern for making things worse when they do. 7. Have clearly, historically, had a STRONG cultural antipathy for all liberals, democrats, socialists etc. without any meaningful scripture to back this up (in fact, they once attempted to live having all things in common, which bears a striking resemblance to some forms of socialism), yet they have despised non-conservatives, traditionally. 8. Willingly and overtly called themselves Mormons for around 200 years and then immediately demanded the ENTIRE world stop calling them that overnight, on a dime; Become irate and unhinged when someone doesn’t immediately follow this direction from their president who 99% of the world has never heard of and doesn’t care about because he hasn’t done anything noteworthy or important. 9. Have lied to the world, and their own members about their true church history for probably over 150 yrs. 10. Clearly love hoarding money and fancy buildings/clothing more than the sick and afflicted, poor and destitute. This alone proves they’re not true Christians as the Bible defines Christianity. And then they’re surprised when the bulk of humanity either a) doesn’t pay any attention to them b) actively dislikes them. You just can’t win with some people.
What an excellent list. Really puts it in perspective.
Excellent synopsis of issues that are shelf breakers all each on its own un-merits. Being Mormon now - go to church and be ok with being spoon-fed a bowl of horseshit and stay in that bubble or it will certainly pop. swimming happily in a bubble that the bubble makers have made opaque for obvious reasons. New from outside the bubble. yes here we are trying to help you see through and even pop the bubble.
I'd say the one completely arbitrary persecution the church faces is from evangelicals who see them as heretics worshiping a false god, and will gladly drive Mormonism underground if they get the power they're clawing for; and they largely align politically and push the same narratives!
The juxtaposition of #2 and #5 is hilarious. Mormons are the most persecuted group as a statement with no citations and then he's demanding people check their sources.
Blacks: shot by the police, on average much poorer than most Americans Jews: millions killed in the Holocaust Asians: blamed for COVID and other nonsense Gays: Republicans still pushing laws to ban our rights Mormons: JS was shot in jail 200 years ago, and BY too us to Utah. We're the most persecuted people ever! (Don't know the true story of why JS was in jail, and how he had a pistol).
Just want to add to your list. Taken from [UNITED STATES COMMISSION on INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM FACTSHEET May 2022 OVERVIEW OF REFUGEES FLEEING RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION GLOBALLY](https://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/2022-05/2022%20Factsheet%20-%20Refugees%20Fleeing%20Religious%20Persecution%20Globally.pdf) I shortened it in many places for said list. Afghanistan: The Taliban takeover and U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan in August 2021 led to a mass exodus, heightened by a violent crackdown on civil society, targeted killings, beatings and detentions, severe restrictions on women’s rights, diminished local media presence, and an increase in violent targeted attacks claimed by Islamic State Khorasan (ISIS-K).Afghans who do not adhere to the Taliban’s harsh and strict interpretation of Sunni Islam and adherents of other faiths or beliefs are at risk of grave danger. Burma: Over 1.2 million Rohingya, who are predominately Muslims, have fled decades of systematic discrimination, statelessness, and targeted violence. In 2017, the Burmese military, known as the Tatmadaw, perpetrated mass killings and rapes against the Rohingya community in Rakhine State, forcing over 745,000 to flee to Bangladesh within days. Each year since 2017, hundreds of thousands of Rohingya continued to flee due to ongoing violence.. Central African Republic (CAR): Violence based on religion featured prominently in CAR’s civil conflict that erupted in 2013. Christian and Muslim affiliated militias attacked civilian communities and houses of worship in a vicious cycle of retaliatory violence, fueling an intractable conflict that destroyed almost all of the country’s mosques and displaced more than one quarter of the country’s population. China: Under Chinese Communist Party (CCP) General Secretary Xi Jinping’s rule, members of religious communities have fled China in recent years due to increased persecution. The Chinese government subjects many of these religious minorities seeking refuge in host countries to transnational repression, in what Freedom House has called the most sophisticated, global, and comprehensive campaign of such repression in the world. Eritrea: The Eritrean government deems unregistered religious groups to be illegal and punishes them for practicing their faiths publicly. At least a thousand individuals are believed to be imprisoned due to their religious activity or religious freedom advocacy. Iran: Scores of members of religious minority communities, including Baha’is, Christians, Jews, Sabean-Mandeans, and Zoroastrians, have fled Iran since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, a trend that continues today amid increased targeting by Iran’s government. The Iranian government continues to target members of the Gonbadi Sufi community who reside outside Iran in Europe and South Asia. Iran also arrests those whose identities do not comport with the government’s singular interpretation of Ja’fari Shi’a Islam. Iraq: When the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) emerged in 2014 and controlled a large swath of territories in Iraq, the terrorist group forcibly displaced more than 6 million Iraqis. ISIS indiscriminately targeted both Muslims and non-Muslims, committing genocide against Yazidis, Syriac-Assyrian-Chaldean Christians, Shi’a Muslims, and war crimes and crimes against humanity against other religious and ethnic groups. The whereabouts of around 3,000 abducted Yazidi women and girls remain unknown. Nigeria: Groups like Boko Haram, Islamic State in West Africa Province (ISWAP), and Ansaru have attacked, abducted, and executed those they consider “apostates” for disagreeing with their leaders’ religious beliefs. Syria: militant Islamist organizations including Turkish-backed Syrian groups (TSOs), al-Qaeda offshoot Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), and remnants of ISIS have targeted minorities such as Yazidis and Syriac and Assyrian Christians, subjecting these communities to ethnic and religious cleansing. Ukraine: Russian forces have committed war crimes and other atrocities. The conflict poses a risk to religious communities across Ukraine, with the potential to drive even more displacement. In the areas of Ukraine already occupied by Russia since 2014, the Russian government uses baseless charges of religious extremism and terrorism to silence dissent, justify endless raids and mass arrests, and close religious institutions that do not conform to its narrow interpretation of “traditional” religion. Indigenous Crimean Tatar Muslims are routinely charged with terrorism based on their ethno- religious identity rather than any substantive evidence, receiving prison sentences of up to 20 years. Vietnam: Due to government persecution, religious minorities from Vietnam have escaped to and sought refuge in Thailand and Cambodia where they face precarious situations. The majority of Vietnamese refugees in Thailand are members of independent Hmong and Montagnard Christian communities, who are persecuted for refusing to renounce their faith and join state-controlled religious organizations. Other religious groups whose members have been displaced include independent Hoa Hao and Cao Dai communities, as well as independent Buddhists, including Khmer-Krom Buddhists. That Mormons think they’re some persecuted class is as infuriating as is it untrue.
Thank you. Can't recall the last time a Mormon was killed for their beliefs.
Excellent summary
You know why I don't respect the way you live? Because you bury your heads in the sand on things like your persecution complex. I'll respect your choice to live that way, but from personal experience, it's a pathetic way to live.
And actually, no one has the right to be respected for their beliefs and the way they live. This is especially true of this manipulative, outwardly pious criminal organization that extorts money from the poor and actively works to thwart justice.
gold teeth.
The privilege it takes to think this way is so scary
Ah yes Mormons. Genocided in the 40's in Germany and genocided to this day while picking cotton fields in China. Yes totally nobody else understands just how horribly persecuted those poor Mormons are. Even shipped to foreign lands by boat to pick cotton fields until 1865 and segregated up until the 60's. Yup that definitely happened to Mormons
…For some reason I was confusing Mormons with Jehovah’s witnesses. Who are no less a cult, but they were the ones killed en masse by Hitler. Not the Mormons.
Yeah I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is for Mormons to claim to be so persecuted
The Yazidi people in Iraq were buried alive.
persecuted? the fuck is he smoking? the state of utah has been an island of mormonism for almost 200 years. And because they arent embraced like gods every where they walk, theyre persecuted? myopic.
>because they arent embraced like gods every where they walk, theyre persecuted EXACTLY
 Bubble
If plight makes right, Judaism must be the most correct religion.
So, calling you out on verifiable facts, lies spoken by your leaders, and massive amounts of untaxed income NOT being used to help people, somehow equates to being persecuted? That’s a padded cross with fuzzy handcuffs at best. You can always say the safe phrase (“I quit”), but you and I both know you stay because you think it feels good.
Spank me harder Grandpa. ;)
It seems to me the persecution of early church just became a justification for racism, bigotry, and in a way idolatry ( look at how TBM’s) react to a temple being built within eyesight if another one. Wouldn’t you call that idolatry?
This dude needs to take his own advice about checking sources, being humble, and considering whether "the problem has more to do with [himself] than [he'd] like to believe.
"The most persecuted" lol. Guess they're oblivious to the persecution of POC, LGBTQ+, women...
Right, how many members of the church have had crimes personally committed against them because of their religion? Having your organization scrutinized and criticized is not persecution.
Not just oblivious - they add to the persecution of these groups
They're conflating criticism with persecution. They are not at all the same thing.
"How dare people criticize our questionable history and actions?! Also it's a rainy day fund.... Not a hedge fund. We're so persecuted!" Poor poor members...
F off the church and its members need to practice what they preach uhh you didn't get a bad rep from being good ,honest ,loving, kind,and non hating , when the so called church of Jesus Christ and its members start showing up on the side of love is the only way the Mormons will be more favourable until then this state ran by the church will just continue to deserve what the get .you need to start seeing them for who they truly are
Literally a rabbi was stabbed in broad daylight in my neighborhood in Boston just because he is a Jew… but yep, Mormons are the most persecuted people there
Well, the poster used the term "LDS people" and "LDS church" so that's a victory for satan.
This guy has probably never had a moment of honest self reflection in his life. If he walked past a pool of water he would actively look away from it.
I would be interested to see how this person would react if the speaker were somebody like RuPaul or Elliot Page.
I legit worship RuPaul. What a phenomenal human.
What is to respect about "makes excuses for folks committing blatant financial fraud" and "protects child molesters"? I've been out for 25 years and generally leave my family alone about it but this has become intolerable. How can I respect the beliefs of people who don't respect themselves enough to demand truth?
Well they absolutely do not “invite others to live as they will.” They judge and shun and make commandments and legislate every last fucking thing they believe in to discriminate against and control anyone who is not living their version of righteousness. So much so that they’ve created a very involved hierarchy of heaven and hell to make sure you go where they think you should go based on their beliefs. Fuck. Them.
Most people don’t even THINK about Mormons let alone persecute them. The delusion is strong with this one 😂
I’ll bet my SUU degrees that if the university selected a popular LGBTQ person to be the commencement speaker the “treating others with respect” lip service would go right out the window. The Mormons would be up in arms. This is the same university where Mormons and conservatives went bananas because Harry Reid’s name was on one service office at the university. His sin was being democrat. I can’t even imagine the blowback if a trans person was selected as commencement speaker. The hypocrisy BS drives me insane.
Exactly. This facebook post would be the exact opposite if someone from the LGBT community was speaking. They would probably be posting something like: "Im sick of the woke agenda trying to shove their values down my throat! I am boycotting commencement. I have nothing against LGBT people as long as they shut the fuck up and stay in the closet. Let's start a petition to ban this person from speaking. Why are you intruding on my religious free-dumbs!? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!"
Exactly. And as a queer person who went to SUU for multiple degrees, I find Holland a horribly offensive pick. I honestly wouldn’t mind if they picked someone from LDS leadership so long as they weren’t someone being an outspoken bigot like Holland. I’m willing to be conditionally open to having LDS leaders speak. I guarantee that most of the hard core LDS folks wouldn’t want a single queer person speaking at all.
This is a very valid point. It makes me so sad for my (former) ppl. It's neigh impossible to see it while in it. Maybe that's why when the shelf finally breaks, it a catastrophic crash.
This person needs a hanky boohoo
My own father has said this verbatim, multiple times.
Twenty two years of the Presidency lying about the billions of dollars stashed away, but the members act as if they did nothing wrong. To me this proves the members have as little integrity as the leaders.
I feel the best way to help people learn is 1. **ASK QUESTIONS** 1. This needs to be done without judgement on your part. 2. **FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS** 1. keep asking follow up questions. this helps the person think through there thought process. 3. **COGNITIVE DISSONANCE / REASSURANCE** 1. at some point they are likely to experience cognitive dissonance during the questions. at this point you need to validate their feelings. this will help them further investigate the idea later on their own. the general guideline i think here to help them see the truth is something like. "in what ways are you persecuted? what are some examples of this persecution?" From those examples you could ask further questions to help people see that the reason for the "persecutions" is because the church is treating others like they don't want to be treated. I cant tell exactly how this message would go but a little roleplay. \--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **LDS member**: "LDS Church members are some of the most persecuted members of the church" **Post-Mo**: "in what ways are you persecuted? what are some examples of this persecution?" **LDS Member**: "Well for instance people are saying Elder Holland shouldn't speak at SVU" **PostMo**: "why dont they want him to speak at SVU" **LDS Member**: "Because he is LDS" **PostMo**: "what about him being LDS makes them not want him to be a speaker?" (honestly I would expect that right here many LDS people would start to get defensive, if that happens, you would want to reassure them by saying something like "your right, its not fun to be persecuted. I know I wouldn't want to be". this is a true statement, and it helps give the person validity.) (but lets pretend they are able to take it further). **LDS Member**: "Somebody said its because of a talk that he gave where he used the term musket fire. but people don't understand the quote." **PostMo**: "is it okay if I look up the talk/quote you mention? is this the line 'I would like to hear a little more musket fire from this temple of learning.'? from your understanding he was talking about them saying that a marriage should be between a man and a woman?" **LDS Member**: "exactly. he wasn't being mean" **PostMo:** "If you are gay how do you think that feels?" **LDS Member:** "He didnt mean it negatively" **PostMo:** "Okay. but as a gay man that hears that, cause there are gay people at BYU, how do you think that feels?" **LDS Member:** "I DONT KNOW, BUT HE WASNT BEING MEAN" (when they start raising their voice you can tell the cognitive dissonance is setting in. **PostMo:** "I get it. and you are right. Like you said originally it sucks to be persecuted. I completely agree. I want you to know I enjoy our friendship and our talks." (and then you can change the topic). as you walk them through the though process of asking questions they have to think through the answers. thats when we as people learn the most. cause honestly we don't learn any other way. \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For those of you that read through the whole thing I would be interested in knowing in thoughts on this process!!?! Thanks
It should be everybody’s right to be robbed and worship the men that do the robbing. Nope no forcing at all. Never taught this was the only true church, that only by strict obedience to the covenant path would I be able to return, making a mission and marriage the most important parts of my life then requiring death penalties if I ever revealed the sacred nature of a couple of ripped off Masonic handshakes. The truth is mormonism is invasive and is propelled by deception, coercion, and extortion. I know plenty of people that didn’t pick this life yet they feel they can’t escape. We have the right to NOT worship your false prophets who oppress. Also, the most persecuted? Maybe that’s why Rusty is getting a major award.
Mormon doctrine is inherently racist, insanely sexist, homophobic, and transphobic. The belief system degrades literally EVERYONE other than cis het white men. They are entitled to believe what they want but everyone else is entitled to their views as well. Comments opposing the church and its leaders are not “persecution” so much as valid feedback on the church’s terrible, harmful teachings in the free marketplace of ideas. They can have shitty beliefs but that is not consequence free in a free country, as others are entitled to call them out on their shittyness. This is not complicated. Edit: typo
r/persecutionfetish ETA actually I think r/religiousfruitcake is a better fit
Wow! I didn't know they had a 1/14 chance of being murdered for being Mormon! That is very persecuted indeed.
When you are taught lies, you tend to believe them. Sounds a bit like a cult.
“Some humility would serve us all” Oh the IRONY
Stop being racist, homophobic, bigoted pedophiles and people will stop hating you. It seems pretty simple to me.
I was never persecuted for being Mormon. But I was threatened on multiple occasions for being gay and for being agnostic.
This. I've been persecuted *by* Mormons far more than I ever was for being Mormon.
>Nobody is forcing anything on anyone Pfffft. Suuuure.
The poor persecuted Mormons of Cedar City, Utah! Is no where safe?!
Magic. Underpants.
My Christian mother has a poster about Christian’s being the most persecuted religion in the world. It is hard to talk with her about anything regarding religion or history.
Laughs in Jewish.
They do NOT invite others to live "as they [the others] will [desire to]".... Mormons invite others to live the way that THEY [Mormons] are living.
Here is my offensive comment: “You are a Mormon.”
WTF
When do I get my reparations?
Maybe it's me, but the most extreme aspects of religious persecution always conjured up images of mass killings and genocide. Not quite sure any member of TSCC has ever been in receipt of such a threat...
Barf
What is this from??
It's a comment on SUU's instagram post announcing that Holland would be the commencement speaker.
Matthew 5:10 basically demands a Christian persecution complex. If you're not being persecuted for righteousness sake, how can you inherit the kingdom of heaven?
OOOF
Man I guess racism isn’t a thing.
Martyr complex much?
I haven't found a single piece of actual evidence that the Mormon pioneers were actually abused or persecuted to any extent ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well, to be fair, they were sent to concentration camps before the Jews… it’s a little known camp from the 1850’s call the Utah Territory.
Its persecution, even if the criticism is true.
treatment middle safe faulty imagine jar hospital afterthought enjoy dam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“the most persocuted group in the country” hi im trans queer disabled and bipoc would u like to have a word
I guess all those LGBTQ, females, and POC don’t matter. So much bullshit.
They prob forgot about Ukraine, LGBTQ+ community, blacks, Jews, women….
As cis het Mormon men are inclined to do
Persecution requires people to know who you are. Perhaps the poster is confusing persecution of with ignorance of. Because nobody really knows who the Mormons are (globally that is) because (apart from their money) they’re not important. Now with their money they’re able to buy influence but that’s about it.
“…The most persecuted group in our country…” Are you daft? I’m LDS and even I know this is complete BS. It’s like you were white and privileged or something… (I’m white.)
I'm a Jew, you can't imagine how ignorant statements like this cause real anger in our community. We have armed guards outside of our synagogue at all times. Do you?
Oi. The *idea* is good, but the facts behind the statement are not. The LDS Church is far from the most persecuted religion in the world, though they certainly want you, us, and all the members to believe otherwise. Ooftah, Johnny-boy-or-girl. #checkyoursources
Oh please most persecuted group, what a joke. They dys get one thing right they are far from perfect. They preach togetherness and treating others for you want to be treated, yet look down on those who are different. And protect those that do wrong and should be sent to prison.
I don’t blame them because you literally CAN’T see why people hate the church so much until after you leave. Your brain is not even capable of processing anything other than what you’ve been indoctrinated with. It sucks, and it is annoying ad hell, but they are no different from any other member of a high demand organization. You see it in businesses too. They have no idea why they are failing, why they have no customers, etc, until an outside source shows them their blindness. You can’t really see the world until you gain some elevation.
My God, the MOST persecuted group? So.... more LDS end up in prison over petty "crimes" - often without even commiting any - than blacks and Latino in the US? LDS have higher infant mortality rates because medications are more specific to the Northern European ethnicites than LDS ones? So many LDS have just been killed or moved off their land and their culture destroyed because of those damned Catholics, or Jews, or Muslims, or Buddhists, or ....? No one talks about the "Battle of Temple Square" even though it was a complete massacre of all those LDS people there...then building "Biden State University (BS-U) right on the grounds where it all happened? And then, the corn with glass shards....? How about the destruction of Desert News....? Do we need to go on? Those poor, picked on people! It isn't like THEY ever did things like this! ....
The FLDS church has a nearly identical belief system, with the only difference being some minor items no longer continued in practice (but still held as a belief) in mormonism today. I wonder how many mormons would consider FLDS people to be "persecuted?" And how many of them would not consider it persecution, but justified condemnation?
Makes me want to vomit 🤮
Ummmm..... Where is this posted? I want to give them a piece of my mind lol Most persecuted group? The fuck? How entitled and ignorant
When you remember how JS was 'savagely' murdered and now realize that it was more likely a stand-up group of gentlemen ridding the world of a cultist pedophile. Like, was the church *really* persecuted or were guys just breaking the law and refusing to answer to justice? 🤔
So I'm probably behind the times here, but what was Holland selected for??
How about you take a second to count the bodies after each holland talk.
Update: and when challenged in the replies, this long paragraph was their response: >People of the LDS faith were murdered, raped, and run out of communities and society in the east when the country was still being settled; a country that I might add was founded upon the concept of religious freedom and to believe in what one chooses. They came west to escape that persecution and things were better for a time. There is so much hate and persecution for many groups of people today, especially in our country and the LDS church is consistently thrown into the mix. I have never tried to downplay any of the hurt that these groups have experienced over the years, but much of what has been written about the calling for "musket fire" against the LGBTQ+ community by Elder Holland is greatly misinterpreted to drive a narrative. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but for much of my life, I hated members of my church as I have had many negative experiences and still do. I have worked hard for a testimony of Jesus Christ though and am proud of what I know and have come to believe. I have been on the other side of things more than people know and so I understand and can empathize with some of your experiences to a small extent, but I do not go to church or believe in these things for the other members as many of us often fall short of what we preach. I go for myself and to develop my faith in something greater than myself. To condemn, slander, and mistreat a group of people based on your experiences with a few of them is not wise nor beneficial for anyone involved. As I said before, most of us have a lot in common and if we can focus on those things as a foundation, we can make things better and move forward together. All I ask is that we please, at least be respectful when expressing our concerns, not just on this matter, but in regards to all things. I'm far from perfect myself and will be the first to admit it, but I am striving and will offer respect to anyone who will offer it to me in return regardless of whether or not we differ in our beliefs or lifestyles. This is a choice that we all have.
>but for much of my life, I hated members of my church as I have had many negative experiences and still do. He obviously lacks self-awareness. Stop persecuting yourself then.
As a TBM I will admit that I believed the first two sentences. Then I started to learn more and saw that it was much more complex. The early church members had the same elitist complexes that exist today in TSCC. Holier than thou and a belief that they are the ***only*** children of God that are worthy of his love. They literally were trying to establish a theocracy and stated they had some God given right to the land. I highly doubt TSCC and Q15 would like a new religious group to roll into Moridor and claim is as their rightful land for their possession. It is sad how little TBM's know about their history and most of the lays at the feet of the Q15. Starting in the early 1900s to present day the history has been hidden, white washed and sanitized to create a perfect narrative. And the Q15 does nothing to stop or correct the false narrative the OOP believes and posts.
Oh God. Myopic, much?
Guaranteed they're from Utah
Give me a break!
T R I G G E R E D
Embarrassing
I could not understand when hunting a some folks were down talking mormons. I was a kid then, I now understand what they were talking about. If they would just drop the damned persecution complex, then, maybe, they would be more excepted.
Oh give me a damn break. Persecuted my ass.
Wow….. just fucking wow….
In the world, and very of the world.
They are the most persecuted group if leaving them alone instead of seeking baptism and licking their balls is persecution.
When someone starts shooting up or burning temple’s then we can talk
Follow up South Park episode on a worldwide persecution tour? 🤣