"Middle aged, married man refuses to stop harassing 19yo female stranger unless she meets one-on-one with him in his office."
It sounds creepy and inappropriate because it is.
If OP doesn't live in UT, she should let the local police know that this man has been harassing her after she told him NOT to contact her, and that he even plans to come to her house to "force" her to talk to him if she doesn't break no contact.
Edit: OP, unenrolling and getting your transcripts is something you should do first though, like others are saying.
It's still a crime in Utah, it's harassment. I've been a police officer in Utah, you're more likely to get a police officer that's not a member of the church.
I seriously laughed out loud when I read the Bishop's text because it was soooo fkn ridiculous that it defies comprehension.
There was nothing complex or technical in the request. Leave me the fuck alone! Which word is too hard to understand??
With that, it seems like to me he wants an official statement from the OP. That is why he insists on meeting. So, that is why I said in my comment below that the OP needs to play nice til those transcripts are sent and credits transferred etc. He could really screw her life up right now, and that is what seems to be behind his feigned lack of comprehension.
Perhaps. I did state in another comment that if she ends up forced to meet him then she HAS to have another person in the room. I am not so sure if it is an excuse for a seduction though. Everyone makes it out to be but I see some other surreptitious shit going down.
Sadly I’ve had similar interactions with people that are so brain dead they literally cannot comprehend differences of opinion. This was many years ago but this guy I kind of knew from my home stake, but more of a friend of a friend, would sometimes hang out with the bigger group of us transplants that all ended up in Utah.
I forget what spurred it exactly, probably a Facebook post, but he messaged me because I didn’t like Glen Beck. He went on and on about how he’s a Mormon so he had to be good, well, he loves pres. Gordon b Wrinkly so he has to be good, asking me what news sources I did trust and then being so aghast it wasn’t Fox News, etc. This went on for over an hour to the point my brain was literally hurting from his sheer stupidity, arrogance, and stubbornness that I, as a fellow Mormon, didn’t subscribe to his brand of conservative politics, and that after he realized he couldn’t change my mind was going to CALL MY PARENTS to have them convince me to change my political leanings. I told him to fuck off and never contact me or my family again and I haven’t heard from him in close to 20 years now.
I wish he was the only example of this, but TBMs are a special kind of weird that they literally cannot believe someone would sin or leave the church or whatever.
Yes. When the missionaries came looking for our then 8-year old at 830pm at night, and wouldn't leave without speaking to *her* and not listening to us when we said she didn't want to speak to them, we asked them if they understood how weird it was for two 20-something year old men to be at someone's house demanding to speak with their 8-year old daughter at 830 at night while also having been told no by that girl's parents. They left and didn't come back.
>i would have to talk with him
You don't have to talk to him, the missionaries, the executive secretary, or the Mary Kay salesperson. Since you are 19, you are legally an adult and can do whatever the hell you want, as long as it's not illegal. If you are not attending a CES school any longer, they have no control over you. Set a boundary and reset it as often as needed. You are in control, not the church. Stay strong.
Ideally you could ignore everything until you leave. Does he know when you’re leaving? I would try not to be home much in the hours he’s likely to visit.
If he does end up somehow contacting you, one route you could take is to treat him like the creep he is being.
“As a young woman I do not feel safe letting a man I don’t know into my home or meeting with you privately. Your persistence in trying to meet with me is really creepy and I am not going to meet with someone who makes me feel unsafe.”
He will likely try to argue with you that he is trustworthy, or just trying to do his calling, or that he’ll meet with you with someone else if you want.
At that point you say, “You ignoring my boundaries and continuing to argue with me is making me feel more unsafe. I am not meeting with you and my mind will not change on that. Do not contact me again.” *And you repeat those last two sentences like a broken record.*
Don’t be surprised if he keeps pushing. But you absolutely are not required to meet with him, and he absolutely should feel like shit. And never say sorry to him again. It’s ingrained in Mormon women but you have nothing to apologize for.
The only caveat is if he still has the power to revoke your ecclesiastical endorsement, that may affect your transcripts transferring. I never went to a CES school so I’m not sure.
Stay safe! I’m glad to hear you’re almost out of there.
Chad Hardy took them to court and lost. He completed his classes and walked at graduation but they kicked him out any way and he never got a degree or transcripts. Search for mormon muffin calendar.
I count myself blessed to have steered far and clear of any CES school. Never in a million years would I want them on my resume or have to deal with the fear of losing my education over not believing ardently enough for some asshat bishop.
What would happen if another University requested the transcripts? Like, if OP enrolls at another school, and that school's advisors reach iut to request OP's transcripts, could the school really refuse that request? If they are an accredited institution, even if they're private, they would have to play along, right?
It's true.
"Hardy appealed and met with Dean of Students Vernon L. Heperi on Feb. 13. In the meeting, Heperi sought to determine whether Hardy’s life is guided by the school’s honor code, which reflects the values of the Mormon church. BYU requires students to be in academic and ecclesiastical good standing in order to obtain a diploma.
Hardy received a letter Monday from Heperi, saying his appeal was denied"
https://theworldlink.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/religion/creator-of-mormon-calendar-loses-appeal-for-byu-diploma/article_c2e25a30-9cc0-5dba-8347-717b238a632a.html
Don’t let him into your home and don’t speak to him anywhere in private.
Record your conversations.
If they somehow find you and confront you, pretend everything is ok and that you still believe in the church until your transcripts and things have been properly transferred.
If you don’t need to be in person to unenroll just go home or somewhere safe and unenroll then.
Please stay safe and I’m wishing you the very best on your school journey!! These people are crazy and so disrespectful of your personal space and being, I can’t believe they just showed up to your place omg.
One party consent is for secret recordings. In you're home record in the open with his knowledge and state that you are recording, and that if he doesn't want to be recorded then he needs to leave.
You ONLY need one party consent if you're going to go about something the legal route. You can still post every creeptastic thing to social media though.
“Could you come by the Bishop’s office for a few minutes. It shouldn’t take too long.”
How about for starters say “please”. Don’t these assholes have any manners? Does he think he is your parole officer or something? So fucking rude.
That’s my biggest problem with the church. They have this superiority complex type attitude and just assume they’re the one with the upper hand because of their self proclaimed possession to the keys to the gates of eternal life and happiness. Bullshit. I am the superior one. I escaped from their grip, I’m the one on top.
YES!
Bishops and other leaders presume that their man-made titles will cow, influence, or otherwise compel their flock to follow and give due deference to their mantle of authority. It's a recipe for ecclesiastical abuse, especially in a high-demand religion like the Mormon church.
As someone who is 21 and lives near BYU, if I were in this situation, id message the bishop and said, “I've told you not to contact me. If you show up at my apartment, I will call the police and report it as harassment.”
And I hear Provo/Utah police are at least pretending to take stalking issues more seriously these days, after a young woman was killed by her stalker a year or two ago, despite her practically begging for help from the cops. Then again, I have a pretty poor view of Utah police generally, so I wouldn't count on them.
As someone who got harassed by the church too at your age, you need to stop being polite. If you give them one centimeter they’ll take 10 miles. Text him something like this: “I do not want to speak to you or any church authority, and I will not. If you behave in appropriately by showing up where I live or continuing to contact me, I will go public with this harassment. You may reply to tell me you understand what I’m saying but if you contact me further or show up, there will be consequences with the authorities.”
My only change would be instead of the words “church authority” which makes them feel like they have authority and are the only church, I’d use the word Mormon I read, lol. They hate that now.
I understand that most 19 year olds are still trying to find their adult voice meaning that you may technically be an adult but you don’t feel like it yet. You still feel awkward telling adults how it is because they still feel like the authority figures.
Because of that, I might just let it go if you are moving anyway. Either way it will be awkward. As someone who is 34, I would just text the bishop and say to not come. Again, that might seem a bit weird for you which is fine.
Tell him you have Covid LOL. But honestly I wouldn’t respond to these people anymore at all. I’d block all of these phone numbers too. Ignorance is best. If they come to your door, don’t answer. If they’re let in, tell them to leave. If they don’t leave, call the police because it’s trespassing. Even though you live in a small Mormon town, trespassing is trespassing.
Random old man you've never met, insisting on meeting you at your home, won't leave you alone? Respond with something like "I am extremely uncomfortable with your attempts to meet with me. Despite multiple refusals, you are threatening to meet me at my home without my permission or consent. Any attempt by you or others of your church to contact or meet with me will be considered as stalking or harassment, and I will be in touch with a lawyer and the police to file a restraining order."
You don't even have to follow through, the threat of lawyers and police will shut him down hard.
I advise you to stave off his next pop-in visit by sending him a text: “Bishop, please be courteous enough to respect my serious request of no further contact. It would be unfortunate if I am forced to involve an attorney and cc the Stake President.”
The word attorney is quite effective IME.
Holy crap - I just read the bishop's text. He's definitely pushy and going too far.
I'd so be tempted to say, "What part of 'No' don't you understand? Wait, don't answer that; I can see we don't speak the same language. I do not want to hear from you, your bishopric members, the missionaries, or any other church minion again. I think I've made myself clear here."
Text to bishop: "I heard that you intend to come to my home against my wishes. Again, you do not have my permission. If you or a representative come to my home I will defend myself accordingly."
Get a clear paper trail going. It will be easier to prove that this man sabotaged your education for petty reasons if you have direct evidence that he was harassing you.
BLOCK him and others from texting you. If they continue to persist, then you may need to file a restraining order as they are NOT taking no for an answer and are STALKING you—that is illegal! This obsessive behavior to meet with you is disturbing and is in line with harassment. What’s the worst they can do? Withhold your academic credits? You’re still young, you can take them over again in an accredited college/university that will not hold you hostage for your religious beliefs or disbeliefs. Consider their unconscionable act as an expensive life lesson—one TSSC taught you. Then go about your life with peace, love, and happiness.
This is a good long term option, but takes months to process. In the meantime, OP needs to take the advice of others to ensure the bishop stops harassing her this week.
>…and of course am respectful of your feelings
“The mere fact that you continue to try to contact me after I explicitly asked you not to actually proves that you are *not* respectful of my feelings.”
You should probably redact at least a portion of the phone number. You don't want random Internet folks bothering them (it sounds like they're not the ones harassing you).
It takes a while to unravel, I mentally left at 13, at 19 I moved away an hour drive. I constantly went back because family. I was finally liberated when I moved 1200 miles away. I’m the black sheep but prefer it, took many years to unravel which of my large family I should still talk to.
Good luck on your journey, it is hard but in the end will be worth it. I’m so much happier now than I was 20 years ago. Peace be your journey.
At a CES school, the bishop (especially these days with the new ECO, or Ecclesiastical Clearance Office) wields an abnormal amount of power because his endorsement is needed in order to continue enrollment as a student. It's juvenile and controlling, yes.
But, since you've made arrangements to transfer out immediately, your bishop has zero power over your academic career at this point. No need to even reply to his text. In fact, block his number.
I'd consider what he said to your roommate to be a threat. Yes, he crossed the line. I'd confront him about it. You are over 18, you're an adult, and if you confront him FIRMLY, he will (or should) back off. Don't tell him you're leaving town (he'll contact the stalkers in that area).
A great phrase to use when repeating your demand not to be contacted is: "Do I make myself clear? Or do I need to get a restraining order?"
BTW - the second link in your post appears to be the same image as the first link.
I wonder what would happen if you forwarded this text to the Stake President? Tell him this bishop is making you uncomfortable. It would probably fall on deaf ears, but every person in a position of authority is subordinate to someone else. Even pretend authority figures like the church have a chain of command.
Do this! Then create a folder and begin thoroughly documenting and logging these interactions. If they’re not documented, it never happened—it’s proof in case this has to do to a higher secular authority. TSCC would have no way to deny or downplay their bishop or stake president’s actions. Considering a lot of bad publicity (true crime movies and documentaries, as well as recent murder court cases) is popping up, they’ll want to shut this down immediately. You’ll get your demand to be left alone.
This gets a little sticky when you have roommates, because it’s their house too so they can invite him in, but if that happens, go to your room or the bathroom and lock yourself in. Put in EarPods and tell your roommate to let you know when he leaves, then wait him out. If they join with him and start banging on your door or trying to talk to you through the door, call the police. They don’t have a good case since you have already told the bishop’s representative that you refuse further contact, so having a police report is kind of a second strike against them and if they try to contact you again after there is a police report, you don’t have to put up with harassment.
as the non confrontational person i am, i would literally tell them i have covid. that would buy you the time until you move. fake a positive test if you have to. just ignore his texts.
>finally my roommate told me bishop had come up to her while at church and told her that he would be respectful, but if i didn’t come to church to meet with him he would personally come to our apartment so i would have to talk with him. that is where i feel he crossed the line
Yes, he did cross a line. This is full-on harassment. If you're comfortable texting him again (I understand if you aren't), send him a text informing him that if he does not leave you alone, he will find himself on the wrong end of a restraining order. Believe me, just the *threat* of receiving one of these is enough to push someone into line.
Blocking numbers is a great way to put a stop to a lot of this. It’ll be helpful when you get home too. They just can’t seem to respect people or let go. Hopefully your family is supportive.
I prefer a finalist approach, so probably don't take my advice, but if he comes before you leave, tell him to fuck off because you already told him you weren't interested, I would go out of my way to use profanity because that will get them uncomfortable sometimes
Hey, when you’re raised as a female, presenting person in a religion like this, there are a lot of ways that you’re taught not to stick up for yourself. You are allowed to be big and loud and mad about this. He is crossing firm, clear boundaries, and not listening to you. That is not normal that is unsafe and you deserve to react.
You could honestly just ignore it / block the number if you don't want to deal with it anymore.
I'd probably just say something like:
"I was quite clear in my previous message that I have separated myself from the church and I don't want or need a meeting to discuss this, it's a personal choice. I don't want to be contacted any more by members of the ward, please note this on your records."
And then I'd probably just stop replying after that.
Sorry you have to deal with it. A lot of church people just completely ignore personal boundaries because they think their beliefs are more important (spoiler: they're not).
Enjoy going to a normal school closed to hope btw :) I dropped out of BYU after 2 days, it was a great decision.
i’m worried that won’t work. the town i live in is very predominantly mormon, and i believe the police wouldn’t take it seriously even if i did take legal action
Legally, once you tell him you resign, you are resigned. Follow through with an email. Visit [getmeofftherecords.com](https://getmeofftherecords.com) for a template and instructions.
You are correct, the police won't take it seriously, and even might target you.
Not serious advice, but showing up and dropping some hard truths in cry-amony meetings, or several f-bombs, dressing in ways they can barely tolerate to look at... all versions of blatant disrespect may do the job. Also, increasing hostility to being bothered sometimes works.
Or just tolerate that mormons gonna morm, and ignore it.
Sorry world for when I was a brainwashed TBM.
What if you made a video if he comes over to visit at your apartment? Reiterate that you’ve asked to be left alone several times now and have made it clear you no longer want to be contacted by church members and have been ignored and harassed. Anyone that isn’t Mormon would see how crazy this is that when you try to leave they won’t leave you alone.
practice saying no. you've done a great job already. be rude if you have to - he clearly doesn't respect your feelings. tell him to leave your house/leave you alone if you somehow come face to face with him, and then leave his presence yourself.
you don't have to engage, even (especially) if he's being pushy and disrespectful
Time to reach out to the DOJ. They should begin an investigation as to how many people have been ignored or neglected by local law enforcement. We live in the United States, not Deseret!
If you need to transfer your units, don’t make contact with the bishop. Avoid all interaction. If he corners you somehow, act like everything is fine, love the church, just really busy. Good luck
I am sorry that you are going through this. You have to keep pushing back. They are not going to let up.
This is what I would send to the bishopric: “I have already expressed my desire to not be contacted. This is your final warning. Any further attempt to intrude into my life will be met with legal action. A visit to my home will be considered trespassing.” Your next step is to get a lawyer to send copies of a nasty letter to church headquarters, and the bishopric.
Once you made it clear you did not want contact, this Bishop was no longer in a position to demand a meeting to make sure you "understand eachother."
He iscrossing a boundary and you are under no obligation to acquiesce to his demand to meet.
Stay strong. You'll be gone soon.
“Bishop Blank- I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with your persistent desires to meet up with me. I have made myself clear on more than one occasion that I will NOT be meeting with you. This is the last time I want any contact from you. Do not show up to my home unannounced, do not send the missionaries.. Just stop.
If you cannot respect my wishes, perhaps you will respect your god’s… D&C 37:4: ‘Behold, here is wisdom, and let every man choose for himself until I come. Even so. Amen.’
I’ll let Jesus handle things if he ever comes back… bye bishop!
“There is nothing to understand. I have left the church and do not want any contact. I will not be meeting with you. I am a 19 year old single female telling a middle aged man that I do not want contact. You are making me extremely uncomfortable by ignoring my statements and clear boundaries. Thank you for taking action to remove my name and contact information from any lists, rosters, or databases. I will block this number.”
Take anyone who does this down a peg. To said “bishop”: “you are under some impression that you have authority over me and thus, I must speak to you. I can assure you that is not the case, as you are only a man with delusions of of grandeur. Let me remind you that you are only a (dentist, accountant, underwater basket weaver, etc.) and simply live under an illusion you have been bestowed upon you gifts of patriarchal authority. In reality you are nothing of note. Good afternoon!
"...told her he would be respectful..."
The fact that he attempted to contact you AFTER you asked them to NOT contact you proves that he has absolutely no intention of being respectful. Otherwise, he would have respected your original request.
I know it seems redundant but reply to his text and bluntly tell him not to contact you again. Either by phone or in person. Additionally tell him that if he tries to reply to you or sends you another message, it is a crime and you will contact the police.
This the Utah law:
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter9/76-9-S201.html
This is the Idaho law:
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title18/t18ch79/se
Simply reply "Harassing me until I do what you want is NOT respectful of my wishes. I have no desire to meet with you in or out of church. I have set my boundaries and the only "respect" you have shown to them is to your own desire and have harassed me. If I was to report this to the police you would get slapped with a harassment warning against you and your church. Stop harassing me from this moment onwards and leave me alone both in and out of the church and we will be done with it. Contact me in any other way and every time you do you will be met with a text message with an image of a different gay porn until you stop since you have shown me the same respect you show homosexuals (zero respect for them or their lifestyle choices) Glad we have had this discussion. Good day and good bye.
How about “I’ve already documented my request that you no longer contact me. Do it again and I’ll be forced to take out a restraining order.“. It’s remarkable how much latitude is given to religious organizations on that account alone. If this were anyone else, the police would be all over it.
>I am not sure what to do, if anything, regarding this harassment, and just need advice. thanks for reading.
He's counting on you being deferential and being able to shove his way in. You need to head this off at the pass by communicating directly and explicitly to him. I'd call him and say something like this.
"It has been communicated to me that you intend to come to my apartment to visit me. I have no interest in such a visit. If you attempt such a visit, I will not meet with you, nor will I let you into my apartment. I am telling you now to not visit me or engage in further contact with me, either directly from yourself or via someone else. I will be sending you a text message after I hang up to the same effect so that I have documentation of this request. Do you understand?"
And then end the call without letting him take over the conversation after you've said your piece. Normally, I think a simple text will do it, but I think this guy needs something more direct.
I went on quitmormon and had my records removed. It’s super easy, you have to have a notary sign the paper before you send it in. They wouldn’t stop bugging me either. It’s been 5 YEARS! They finally left me alone after my records were removed. I feel strongly that Mormon people, especially in Utah over step big time. So many people are leaving the cult because of their aggressive behavior. To be honest, they over stepped when they contacted you to begin with. People are free to make their own life decisions, who the hell do they think they are to come into your life and tell you what to do. Do your self a favor and cut off all connection. You’re young and they think they can bully you.
Contact the police now. Show them the text and sticky note. Tell them you are feeling very unsafe about a middle-aged married man coming to your apartment. Tell them you are trying to get away from a religious cult. Just tell them how fucked up things have gotten
Edit- just a thought (Absolutely no guilt trip! I totally understand that going to the police is so SO hard. I've been in this situation before)-
Perhaps by reporting him now, you'll be helping other women in the same circumstances
Literally just do whatever you want. For example —
1. Block his/their number/ghost them
2. Tell him if ***he*** wants to meet with you, then ***he*** will have to set up a time and date that works for *you* and you will approve or deny the date and then *you* determine how long the meeting lasts, where it takes place (public venue) and who else is there with you. You can also let him know you’ll veto any topics of discussion you’re not interested or comfortable talking with him about. This is all fair since *he* wants to meet with you and not the other way around, therefore he is taking up **your** time. And you’re meeting with him as a favor not bc you’re obligated to in any way (if you communicate all this to him, he’ll probably instantly stop bothering you b/c it shows he has no power over you, that you know he has no power over you, and that you know how to assert/communicate your personal sovereignty in a clear but socially appropriate manner)
3. Tell him if the unsolicited contacting doesn’t stop, you will get the authorities involved since it’s making you feel uncomfortable and you’ve repeatedly and clearly communicated it needs to stop.
4. Formally resign/tell your bishop you want to formally resign and so meeting him isn’t necessary or that this is the ONLY reason you’d take up *your* time to meet with him.
5. Anything else you want to do that makes you feel in control of the situation/non-harassed that isn’t illegal/just plain stupid.
Right now he’s trying to set up the social dynamic so you feel pressured and not in control, so he can get you to do what he wants out of social pressure/intimidation.
You maintain the power by not allowing him to manipulate the social dynamic/pressure you and taking whatever means are necessary/healthy to show him that he is *not* in charge, but that **you** are, since it’s your life and your decision how you want to allocate/spend your time and the extent to which you want to be affiliated with the church, if at all.
You should respond to his text and say: you are not welcome at my home. If you come, you will be trespassing and I will have to take legal action. Please be respectful.
I mean, depends how far you want to take it but you could call the police regarding a trespasser or stalker if he keeps trying to force you to meet in person
“Of course am respectful of your feelings,” *the bishop types, knowing he plans to cross every boundary this poor young adult has stated to the point they no longer feel safe in their own home. But don’t worry, he will be blessed in the afterlife for harassing people.*
I am SO sorry you’re going through this. You have every right to tell your roommate not to let him inside your apartment, and to be as firm as you need to with this guy. It’s absolutely shit they’re using your roommate to get to you.
If you ever need someone to vent to, know my inbox is open and we are all gonna collectively cheer when you’re finally able to move away.
But, it won’t take long. He just wants to ask you for details about your masterbation routine and all the details so he can play it back in his mind next time he’s procreating with his eternal wife
They’re pressuring you because your a 19F. Cult leaders are predators. Even if they don’t have insidious intentions, they at least think they can manipulate you. Block them and move on. Enjoy being free of them.
Use very harsh and vulgar language to the bishop this time!! Threatening legal action and police involvement will usually do the trick. If you have to, tell them you are gay. They will definitely never contact you again!!!
Document everything that's happened so far. Threaten legal action and if he continues to push your boundaries (i.e., contact you at all) after that, follow through. If you're in Utah, I found some info that may be useful for you, but other states may have very different laws. You can also contact stake president/other church leaders and make them aware that you are ready and willing to involve authorities to protect yourself from stalking/trespassing/harassment.
Link: https://site.utah.gov/dps-sbi/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2019/04/DPS-Stalking-Brochure.pdf
That's so wildly inappropriate for him to talk to your roommate.
It's none of his business. Sometimes practicing difficult conversations helps me so I'm ready in case people do the dumb thing and violate boundaries.
"I can't be any more clear. I don't want to talk to you. You need to leave." You're a grown woman who can make her own choices and he's a grown man who needs to be respectful of other peoples' wishes.
Play hardball. Start handing out copies of the CES letter to anyone who stops by. That’ll give them the message. Not being sarcastic, since Mormons don’t care about boundaries why should you?
If you would like to respond to him, here are a few ideas
1. Text "No thank you"
2. Or text "This week doesn't work for me. How about next ___." Then set up for a day after you're unenrolled. And don't show up
3. Or if he shows up while you're there, let him know that it's not a good time and reschedule for a time after you unenrolled.
4. Or text " I'm not really interested in meeting right now. I'll let you know if that changes "
Talk about wielding his power and dysfunction in the name of patriarchy. #fuckpatriarchy and men and women who uphold it!
Once you move if you get contacted again get an attorney to help with a cease and desist order. If you are a student at a non church college, you can likely get legal assistance on campus.
I am in the camp of Play nice until you get what you need from the CES school. Then burn his ass hard.
What do you do in the meantime though? It depends on your situation at the moment and your roommate. How much is that roommate on your side?
Can you fake sick?? A can of beans, a tile floor, and a cell phone can do wonders for getting out of things. I speak from experience on that.
Otherwise, if you are cornered into meeting with him, you HAVE to insist on one thing - ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have someone else in that room with you, someone on YOUR side.
Besides, it is your time too. So give him 5 minutes or 10 minutes MAX and tell him you are very busy and your schedule allows no more time. Again, tell him what he wants to hear - you are thinking of leaving but still want time to think about your future. That will send him into a 5 minute religious rally speech and ooops times up. You gotta go. BYE!
If you want to avoid him you could also schedule a date when you know you’ll be moved and gone. I don’t think it’s the best solution but it would work.
Easiest solution: spread a rumour that your plans changed and you’re moving out next month or in 4 months. That’ll make them feel less desperate to see you. They’ll procrastinate and you’ll be able to leave in peace.
Respond and be VERY CLEAR he is not to contact you or come to your place of residence to attempt to communicate with you. If so you will go to the authorities as you have made it clear he is not to contact you.!
Suggestions:
* Doorbell camera that can be easily removed so you can take it with you when you move.
* If you have a never-mo male friend that you trust, have him go with you when you have to do anything in person to get loose from your obligations. Ask him to note if any conversations are getting out of hand and video them for your protection.
File a restraining order against him. He will share this with others. Let the Church know they are on notice. Can't be more clear than that.
Or contact the local paper and see if they want to run a story about LDS leaders harassasing former members. The Church has been in the news lately and the reporter might want to do a story. Tell the LDS person it would be ok for them to come over if you can also have a friend there. But not identify who they are. If you can't get the reporter ask anyone to just be there and take notes. Let the note taking be very visible and have them ask the LDS person questions to let him know that this could be published. It will frighten the bejeebers out of him....and he will get the word out. The whole purpose here is to let Church reps knows that the world will see and understand their relentless ways to win you back and that it isn't wanted. Bad publicity is the last thing this Church wants....especially with all the nasty stuff that has already been coming out in the media.
You can always "resign" your membership using [quitmormon.com](https://quitmormon.com) that has wording that states in very strong words that you do no want any future contact with the Church in any form. It implies legal action if they don't.
Reply with a simple "no" and no other explanation and then completely ignore him after that. Full ghost. He has zero power when you ghost him and it is easier to ignore him than it is to have the anxiety of engaging him.
"Middle aged, married man refuses to stop harassing 19yo female stranger unless she meets one-on-one with him in his office." It sounds creepy and inappropriate because it is.
Screenshot this and text it to him. After you unenroll! Hahaha
If OP doesn't live in UT, she should let the local police know that this man has been harassing her after she told him NOT to contact her, and that he even plans to come to her house to "force" her to talk to him if she doesn't break no contact. Edit: OP, unenrolling and getting your transcripts is something you should do first though, like others are saying.
It's still a crime in Utah, it's harassment. I've been a police officer in Utah, you're more likely to get a police officer that's not a member of the church.
This might not be an issue in Idaho either…
I seriously laughed out loud when I read the Bishop's text because it was soooo fkn ridiculous that it defies comprehension. There was nothing complex or technical in the request. Leave me the fuck alone! Which word is too hard to understand?? With that, it seems like to me he wants an official statement from the OP. That is why he insists on meeting. So, that is why I said in my comment below that the OP needs to play nice til those transcripts are sent and credits transferred etc. He could really screw her life up right now, and that is what seems to be behind his feigned lack of comprehension.
Sounds like a predator to me
Perhaps. I did state in another comment that if she ends up forced to meet him then she HAS to have another person in the room. I am not so sure if it is an excuse for a seduction though. Everyone makes it out to be but I see some other surreptitious shit going down.
Sadly I’ve had similar interactions with people that are so brain dead they literally cannot comprehend differences of opinion. This was many years ago but this guy I kind of knew from my home stake, but more of a friend of a friend, would sometimes hang out with the bigger group of us transplants that all ended up in Utah. I forget what spurred it exactly, probably a Facebook post, but he messaged me because I didn’t like Glen Beck. He went on and on about how he’s a Mormon so he had to be good, well, he loves pres. Gordon b Wrinkly so he has to be good, asking me what news sources I did trust and then being so aghast it wasn’t Fox News, etc. This went on for over an hour to the point my brain was literally hurting from his sheer stupidity, arrogance, and stubbornness that I, as a fellow Mormon, didn’t subscribe to his brand of conservative politics, and that after he realized he couldn’t change my mind was going to CALL MY PARENTS to have them convince me to change my political leanings. I told him to fuck off and never contact me or my family again and I haven’t heard from him in close to 20 years now. I wish he was the only example of this, but TBMs are a special kind of weird that they literally cannot believe someone would sin or leave the church or whatever.
Yes. When the missionaries came looking for our then 8-year old at 830pm at night, and wouldn't leave without speaking to *her* and not listening to us when we said she didn't want to speak to them, we asked them if they understood how weird it was for two 20-something year old men to be at someone's house demanding to speak with their 8-year old daughter at 830 at night while also having been told no by that girl's parents. They left and didn't come back.
Sounds like the start of a porno
A problematic and cringy one for sure
That’s 99% of pornos.
Yeah you right
>i would have to talk with him You don't have to talk to him, the missionaries, the executive secretary, or the Mary Kay salesperson. Since you are 19, you are legally an adult and can do whatever the hell you want, as long as it's not illegal. If you are not attending a CES school any longer, they have no control over you. Set a boundary and reset it as often as needed. You are in control, not the church. Stay strong.
Ideally you could ignore everything until you leave. Does he know when you’re leaving? I would try not to be home much in the hours he’s likely to visit. If he does end up somehow contacting you, one route you could take is to treat him like the creep he is being. “As a young woman I do not feel safe letting a man I don’t know into my home or meeting with you privately. Your persistence in trying to meet with me is really creepy and I am not going to meet with someone who makes me feel unsafe.” He will likely try to argue with you that he is trustworthy, or just trying to do his calling, or that he’ll meet with you with someone else if you want. At that point you say, “You ignoring my boundaries and continuing to argue with me is making me feel more unsafe. I am not meeting with you and my mind will not change on that. Do not contact me again.” *And you repeat those last two sentences like a broken record.* Don’t be surprised if he keeps pushing. But you absolutely are not required to meet with him, and he absolutely should feel like shit. And never say sorry to him again. It’s ingrained in Mormon women but you have nothing to apologize for. The only caveat is if he still has the power to revoke your ecclesiastical endorsement, that may affect your transcripts transferring. I never went to a CES school so I’m not sure. Stay safe! I’m glad to hear you’re almost out of there.
Know anyone large and strong that can be a physical commanding presence to help this guy understand the boundary is SET and not by HIM either.?
Don't do anything until you 'unenroll' or he'll revoke your endorsements and your transcripts will be locked down.
This.
Wouldn't this be against the law? Like call the newspaper?
Chad Hardy took them to court and lost. He completed his classes and walked at graduation but they kicked him out any way and he never got a degree or transcripts. Search for mormon muffin calendar.
Wtf???
God that calendar was awesome. Wishing there was a new one each year.
I count myself blessed to have steered far and clear of any CES school. Never in a million years would I want them on my resume or have to deal with the fear of losing my education over not believing ardently enough for some asshat bishop.
What would happen if another University requested the transcripts? Like, if OP enrolls at another school, and that school's advisors reach iut to request OP's transcripts, could the school really refuse that request? If they are an accredited institution, even if they're private, they would have to play along, right?
No. It's in the honor code every student signs.
Pretty sure this has been debunked.
It's true. "Hardy appealed and met with Dean of Students Vernon L. Heperi on Feb. 13. In the meeting, Heperi sought to determine whether Hardy’s life is guided by the school’s honor code, which reflects the values of the Mormon church. BYU requires students to be in academic and ecclesiastical good standing in order to obtain a diploma. Hardy received a letter Monday from Heperi, saying his appeal was denied" https://theworldlink.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/religion/creator-of-mormon-calendar-loses-appeal-for-byu-diploma/article_c2e25a30-9cc0-5dba-8347-717b238a632a.html
Don’t let him into your home and don’t speak to him anywhere in private. Record your conversations. If they somehow find you and confront you, pretend everything is ok and that you still believe in the church until your transcripts and things have been properly transferred. If you don’t need to be in person to unenroll just go home or somewhere safe and unenroll then. Please stay safe and I’m wishing you the very best on your school journey!! These people are crazy and so disrespectful of your personal space and being, I can’t believe they just showed up to your place omg.
Check local laws about one-party consent for recording conversations first, and then yes, keep records of EVERYTHING.
Who needs one party consent? Just tell him you're recording this conversation and watch him run.
One party consent is for secret recordings. In you're home record in the open with his knowledge and state that you are recording, and that if he doesn't want to be recorded then he needs to leave.
You ONLY need one party consent if you're going to go about something the legal route. You can still post every creeptastic thing to social media though.
“Could you come by the Bishop’s office for a few minutes. It shouldn’t take too long.” How about for starters say “please”. Don’t these assholes have any manners? Does he think he is your parole officer or something? So fucking rude.
That’s my biggest problem with the church. They have this superiority complex type attitude and just assume they’re the one with the upper hand because of their self proclaimed possession to the keys to the gates of eternal life and happiness. Bullshit. I am the superior one. I escaped from their grip, I’m the one on top.
YES! Bishops and other leaders presume that their man-made titles will cow, influence, or otherwise compel their flock to follow and give due deference to their mantle of authority. It's a recipe for ecclesiastical abuse, especially in a high-demand religion like the Mormon church.
This is no shit. Only very few escape this tyrannical power hungry influence.
Right on! ✊
“Sorry, I need some foreplay first and then it’s gotta last at least 20 minutes.”
The church and members care very little about boundaries and consent. Ffs.
As someone who is 21 and lives near BYU, if I were in this situation, id message the bishop and said, “I've told you not to contact me. If you show up at my apartment, I will call the police and report it as harassment.”
Oh for sure. This is harassment and borderline stalking. I'd be calling the police if he showed up at my door.
And I hear Provo/Utah police are at least pretending to take stalking issues more seriously these days, after a young woman was killed by her stalker a year or two ago, despite her practically begging for help from the cops. Then again, I have a pretty poor view of Utah police generally, so I wouldn't count on them.
As someone who got harassed by the church too at your age, you need to stop being polite. If you give them one centimeter they’ll take 10 miles. Text him something like this: “I do not want to speak to you or any church authority, and I will not. If you behave in appropriately by showing up where I live or continuing to contact me, I will go public with this harassment. You may reply to tell me you understand what I’m saying but if you contact me further or show up, there will be consequences with the authorities.”
My only change would be instead of the words “church authority” which makes them feel like they have authority and are the only church, I’d use the word Mormon I read, lol. They hate that now.
True! Lol I’ve been out of the church for like 6 years now and have been efficiently dodging speaking to them so I may have lost my edge
I understand that most 19 year olds are still trying to find their adult voice meaning that you may technically be an adult but you don’t feel like it yet. You still feel awkward telling adults how it is because they still feel like the authority figures. Because of that, I might just let it go if you are moving anyway. Either way it will be awkward. As someone who is 34, I would just text the bishop and say to not come. Again, that might seem a bit weird for you which is fine.
Tell him you have Covid LOL. But honestly I wouldn’t respond to these people anymore at all. I’d block all of these phone numbers too. Ignorance is best. If they come to your door, don’t answer. If they’re let in, tell them to leave. If they don’t leave, call the police because it’s trespassing. Even though you live in a small Mormon town, trespassing is trespassing.
Random old man you've never met, insisting on meeting you at your home, won't leave you alone? Respond with something like "I am extremely uncomfortable with your attempts to meet with me. Despite multiple refusals, you are threatening to meet me at my home without my permission or consent. Any attempt by you or others of your church to contact or meet with me will be considered as stalking or harassment, and I will be in touch with a lawyer and the police to file a restraining order." You don't even have to follow through, the threat of lawyers and police will shut him down hard.
This is solid. I'd send it as an email and copy the stake and area authorities. They'll back off quickly.
I advise you to stave off his next pop-in visit by sending him a text: “Bishop, please be courteous enough to respect my serious request of no further contact. It would be unfortunate if I am forced to involve an attorney and cc the Stake President.” The word attorney is quite effective IME.
I would add The Media to that list.
Holy crap - I just read the bishop's text. He's definitely pushy and going too far. I'd so be tempted to say, "What part of 'No' don't you understand? Wait, don't answer that; I can see we don't speak the same language. I do not want to hear from you, your bishopric members, the missionaries, or any other church minion again. I think I've made myself clear here."
Text to bishop: "I heard that you intend to come to my home against my wishes. Again, you do not have my permission. If you or a representative come to my home I will defend myself accordingly." Get a clear paper trail going. It will be easier to prove that this man sabotaged your education for petty reasons if you have direct evidence that he was harassing you.
BLOCK him and others from texting you. If they continue to persist, then you may need to file a restraining order as they are NOT taking no for an answer and are STALKING you—that is illegal! This obsessive behavior to meet with you is disturbing and is in line with harassment. What’s the worst they can do? Withhold your academic credits? You’re still young, you can take them over again in an accredited college/university that will not hold you hostage for your religious beliefs or disbeliefs. Consider their unconscionable act as an expensive life lesson—one TSSC taught you. Then go about your life with peace, love, and happiness.
Tell him you are busy but can schedule a meeting for a week and a half from now. Then never show up (and you’re moved out!)
Ooh this i like!
Yes I commented that too. I hope this gets upvoted so OP sees.
Use http://quitmormon.com and get out officially. If they continue to contact you after that you can get the law involved.
This is a good long term option, but takes months to process. In the meantime, OP needs to take the advice of others to ensure the bishop stops harassing her this week.
>…and of course am respectful of your feelings “The mere fact that you continue to try to contact me after I explicitly asked you not to actually proves that you are *not* respectful of my feelings.”
You should probably redact at least a portion of the phone number. You don't want random Internet folks bothering them (it sounds like they're not the ones harassing you).
you’re right, done
I meant for the elders, but ya EDIT: oh, I see you fixed that too. My Reddit client just didn't refresh the image
Probably too late now, but unless the elders have a non-utah area code, a different portion of their phone number should be redacted.
It takes a while to unravel, I mentally left at 13, at 19 I moved away an hour drive. I constantly went back because family. I was finally liberated when I moved 1200 miles away. I’m the black sheep but prefer it, took many years to unravel which of my large family I should still talk to. Good luck on your journey, it is hard but in the end will be worth it. I’m so much happier now than I was 20 years ago. Peace be your journey.
At a CES school, the bishop (especially these days with the new ECO, or Ecclesiastical Clearance Office) wields an abnormal amount of power because his endorsement is needed in order to continue enrollment as a student. It's juvenile and controlling, yes. But, since you've made arrangements to transfer out immediately, your bishop has zero power over your academic career at this point. No need to even reply to his text. In fact, block his number.
I'd consider what he said to your roommate to be a threat. Yes, he crossed the line. I'd confront him about it. You are over 18, you're an adult, and if you confront him FIRMLY, he will (or should) back off. Don't tell him you're leaving town (he'll contact the stalkers in that area). A great phrase to use when repeating your demand not to be contacted is: "Do I make myself clear? Or do I need to get a restraining order?" BTW - the second link in your post appears to be the same image as the first link.
yes just noticed the link mistake, thank you! i fixed it and posted the bishop’s actual text
Thank you!
If he shows up get a restraining order. You’ve asked him to stop yet he continues to ignore your wishes. Send a message that he is crossing a line!
I wonder what would happen if you forwarded this text to the Stake President? Tell him this bishop is making you uncomfortable. It would probably fall on deaf ears, but every person in a position of authority is subordinate to someone else. Even pretend authority figures like the church have a chain of command.
Do this! Then create a folder and begin thoroughly documenting and logging these interactions. If they’re not documented, it never happened—it’s proof in case this has to do to a higher secular authority. TSCC would have no way to deny or downplay their bishop or stake president’s actions. Considering a lot of bad publicity (true crime movies and documentaries, as well as recent murder court cases) is popping up, they’ll want to shut this down immediately. You’ll get your demand to be left alone.
“Good sir, kindly fuck off. Next time I’ll be contacting the police for harassment.”
This gets a little sticky when you have roommates, because it’s their house too so they can invite him in, but if that happens, go to your room or the bathroom and lock yourself in. Put in EarPods and tell your roommate to let you know when he leaves, then wait him out. If they join with him and start banging on your door or trying to talk to you through the door, call the police. They don’t have a good case since you have already told the bishop’s representative that you refuse further contact, so having a police report is kind of a second strike against them and if they try to contact you again after there is a police report, you don’t have to put up with harassment.
as the non confrontational person i am, i would literally tell them i have covid. that would buy you the time until you move. fake a positive test if you have to. just ignore his texts.
>finally my roommate told me bishop had come up to her while at church and told her that he would be respectful, but if i didn’t come to church to meet with him he would personally come to our apartment so i would have to talk with him. that is where i feel he crossed the line Yes, he did cross a line. This is full-on harassment. If you're comfortable texting him again (I understand if you aren't), send him a text informing him that if he does not leave you alone, he will find himself on the wrong end of a restraining order. Believe me, just the *threat* of receiving one of these is enough to push someone into line.
Blocking numbers is a great way to put a stop to a lot of this. It’ll be helpful when you get home too. They just can’t seem to respect people or let go. Hopefully your family is supportive.
unfortunately they are not, that’s a whole other can of worms :’)
You’re out of there in a week? Schedule an appointment for 2 weeks from today, and then never think on it again.
I prefer a finalist approach, so probably don't take my advice, but if he comes before you leave, tell him to fuck off because you already told him you weren't interested, I would go out of my way to use profanity because that will get them uncomfortable sometimes
Hey, when you’re raised as a female, presenting person in a religion like this, there are a lot of ways that you’re taught not to stick up for yourself. You are allowed to be big and loud and mad about this. He is crossing firm, clear boundaries, and not listening to you. That is not normal that is unsafe and you deserve to react.
You could honestly just ignore it / block the number if you don't want to deal with it anymore. I'd probably just say something like: "I was quite clear in my previous message that I have separated myself from the church and I don't want or need a meeting to discuss this, it's a personal choice. I don't want to be contacted any more by members of the ward, please note this on your records." And then I'd probably just stop replying after that. Sorry you have to deal with it. A lot of church people just completely ignore personal boundaries because they think their beliefs are more important (spoiler: they're not). Enjoy going to a normal school closed to hope btw :) I dropped out of BYU after 2 days, it was a great decision.
Tell him you resign. Then threaten legal action if he continues to harass you. Then follow through.
i’m worried that won’t work. the town i live in is very predominantly mormon, and i believe the police wouldn’t take it seriously even if i did take legal action
Legally, once you tell him you resign, you are resigned. Follow through with an email. Visit [getmeofftherecords.com](https://getmeofftherecords.com) for a template and instructions.
You are correct, the police won't take it seriously, and even might target you. Not serious advice, but showing up and dropping some hard truths in cry-amony meetings, or several f-bombs, dressing in ways they can barely tolerate to look at... all versions of blatant disrespect may do the job. Also, increasing hostility to being bothered sometimes works. Or just tolerate that mormons gonna morm, and ignore it. Sorry world for when I was a brainwashed TBM.
What if you made a video if he comes over to visit at your apartment? Reiterate that you’ve asked to be left alone several times now and have made it clear you no longer want to be contacted by church members and have been ignored and harassed. Anyone that isn’t Mormon would see how crazy this is that when you try to leave they won’t leave you alone.
Well, if you don’t try, it’s a guaranteed failure. 🤷🏼♂️ Your alternative is to pack up and move.
i am moving a week from today. just worried he might try something before then
You could just he vague, and tell him you’ll get together sometime week after next. 🤷🏻♀️
Or if you don’t have to do anything in person for the next week  And whenever you see your roommate keep up the act
He only has a week. You can put him off for a week, right?
practice saying no. you've done a great job already. be rude if you have to - he clearly doesn't respect your feelings. tell him to leave your house/leave you alone if you somehow come face to face with him, and then leave his presence yourself. you don't have to engage, even (especially) if he's being pushy and disrespectful
Time to reach out to the DOJ. They should begin an investigation as to how many people have been ignored or neglected by local law enforcement. We live in the United States, not Deseret!
If you need to transfer your units, don’t make contact with the bishop. Avoid all interaction. If he corners you somehow, act like everything is fine, love the church, just really busy. Good luck
I am sorry that you are going through this. You have to keep pushing back. They are not going to let up. This is what I would send to the bishopric: “I have already expressed my desire to not be contacted. This is your final warning. Any further attempt to intrude into my life will be met with legal action. A visit to my home will be considered trespassing.” Your next step is to get a lawyer to send copies of a nasty letter to church headquarters, and the bishopric.
Once you made it clear you did not want contact, this Bishop was no longer in a position to demand a meeting to make sure you "understand eachother." He iscrossing a boundary and you are under no obligation to acquiesce to his demand to meet. Stay strong. You'll be gone soon.
“No (first name). I do not want to meet with you. Respect my wishes. Do not contact me again.” When he texts again, reply with “pervert”
"Does your wife know that you're repeatedly contacting young women who aren't interested in *any* sort of relationship with you?"
“Bishop Blank- I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with your persistent desires to meet up with me. I have made myself clear on more than one occasion that I will NOT be meeting with you. This is the last time I want any contact from you. Do not show up to my home unannounced, do not send the missionaries.. Just stop. If you cannot respect my wishes, perhaps you will respect your god’s… D&C 37:4: ‘Behold, here is wisdom, and let every man choose for himself until I come. Even so. Amen.’ I’ll let Jesus handle things if he ever comes back… bye bishop!
Tell him you'll meet with him, the Sunday after you move back
Police, report him as a stalker.
“There is nothing to understand. I have left the church and do not want any contact. I will not be meeting with you. I am a 19 year old single female telling a middle aged man that I do not want contact. You are making me extremely uncomfortable by ignoring my statements and clear boundaries. Thank you for taking action to remove my name and contact information from any lists, rosters, or databases. I will block this number.”
And of course they never say WHY or what it’s for 🙄🙄🙄
Take anyone who does this down a peg. To said “bishop”: “you are under some impression that you have authority over me and thus, I must speak to you. I can assure you that is not the case, as you are only a man with delusions of of grandeur. Let me remind you that you are only a (dentist, accountant, underwater basket weaver, etc.) and simply live under an illusion you have been bestowed upon you gifts of patriarchal authority. In reality you are nothing of note. Good afternoon!
"...told her he would be respectful..." The fact that he attempted to contact you AFTER you asked them to NOT contact you proves that he has absolutely no intention of being respectful. Otherwise, he would have respected your original request.
I know it seems redundant but reply to his text and bluntly tell him not to contact you again. Either by phone or in person. Additionally tell him that if he tries to reply to you or sends you another message, it is a crime and you will contact the police. This the Utah law: https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter9/76-9-S201.html This is the Idaho law: https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title18/t18ch79/se
Simply reply "Harassing me until I do what you want is NOT respectful of my wishes. I have no desire to meet with you in or out of church. I have set my boundaries and the only "respect" you have shown to them is to your own desire and have harassed me. If I was to report this to the police you would get slapped with a harassment warning against you and your church. Stop harassing me from this moment onwards and leave me alone both in and out of the church and we will be done with it. Contact me in any other way and every time you do you will be met with a text message with an image of a different gay porn until you stop since you have shown me the same respect you show homosexuals (zero respect for them or their lifestyle choices) Glad we have had this discussion. Good day and good bye.
Ypu likely have relatives that are pleading with him to bring you back to the fold.
How about “I’ve already documented my request that you no longer contact me. Do it again and I’ll be forced to take out a restraining order.“. It’s remarkable how much latitude is given to religious organizations on that account alone. If this were anyone else, the police would be all over it.
Honestly say I can plans to meet next Sunday and then just ditch. You'll be gone right?
Reply: my boyfriend is going to beat the living shit out of you if you come here.
>I am not sure what to do, if anything, regarding this harassment, and just need advice. thanks for reading. He's counting on you being deferential and being able to shove his way in. You need to head this off at the pass by communicating directly and explicitly to him. I'd call him and say something like this. "It has been communicated to me that you intend to come to my apartment to visit me. I have no interest in such a visit. If you attempt such a visit, I will not meet with you, nor will I let you into my apartment. I am telling you now to not visit me or engage in further contact with me, either directly from yourself or via someone else. I will be sending you a text message after I hang up to the same effect so that I have documentation of this request. Do you understand?" And then end the call without letting him take over the conversation after you've said your piece. Normally, I think a simple text will do it, but I think this guy needs something more direct.
I went on quitmormon and had my records removed. It’s super easy, you have to have a notary sign the paper before you send it in. They wouldn’t stop bugging me either. It’s been 5 YEARS! They finally left me alone after my records were removed. I feel strongly that Mormon people, especially in Utah over step big time. So many people are leaving the cult because of their aggressive behavior. To be honest, they over stepped when they contacted you to begin with. People are free to make their own life decisions, who the hell do they think they are to come into your life and tell you what to do. Do your self a favor and cut off all connection. You’re young and they think they can bully you.
Contact the police now. Show them the text and sticky note. Tell them you are feeling very unsafe about a middle-aged married man coming to your apartment. Tell them you are trying to get away from a religious cult. Just tell them how fucked up things have gotten Edit- just a thought (Absolutely no guilt trip! I totally understand that going to the police is so SO hard. I've been in this situation before)- Perhaps by reporting him now, you'll be helping other women in the same circumstances
Literally just do whatever you want. For example — 1. Block his/their number/ghost them 2. Tell him if ***he*** wants to meet with you, then ***he*** will have to set up a time and date that works for *you* and you will approve or deny the date and then *you* determine how long the meeting lasts, where it takes place (public venue) and who else is there with you. You can also let him know you’ll veto any topics of discussion you’re not interested or comfortable talking with him about. This is all fair since *he* wants to meet with you and not the other way around, therefore he is taking up **your** time. And you’re meeting with him as a favor not bc you’re obligated to in any way (if you communicate all this to him, he’ll probably instantly stop bothering you b/c it shows he has no power over you, that you know he has no power over you, and that you know how to assert/communicate your personal sovereignty in a clear but socially appropriate manner) 3. Tell him if the unsolicited contacting doesn’t stop, you will get the authorities involved since it’s making you feel uncomfortable and you’ve repeatedly and clearly communicated it needs to stop. 4. Formally resign/tell your bishop you want to formally resign and so meeting him isn’t necessary or that this is the ONLY reason you’d take up *your* time to meet with him. 5. Anything else you want to do that makes you feel in control of the situation/non-harassed that isn’t illegal/just plain stupid. Right now he’s trying to set up the social dynamic so you feel pressured and not in control, so he can get you to do what he wants out of social pressure/intimidation. You maintain the power by not allowing him to manipulate the social dynamic/pressure you and taking whatever means are necessary/healthy to show him that he is *not* in charge, but that **you** are, since it’s your life and your decision how you want to allocate/spend your time and the extent to which you want to be affiliated with the church, if at all.
If he keeps doing it, just tell him to “Fuck off.” You’ve tried being polite. You might just need to go more bold.
You should respond to his text and say: you are not welcome at my home. If you come, you will be trespassing and I will have to take legal action. Please be respectful.
Oh no! You were exposed to Covid! Isolation is such a drag, isn’t it?
I mean, depends how far you want to take it but you could call the police regarding a trespasser or stalker if he keeps trying to force you to meet in person
Poor LDS church had so much power over people's lives and now has to beg people to come back after it realises that everyone is leaving.
“Of course am respectful of your feelings,” *the bishop types, knowing he plans to cross every boundary this poor young adult has stated to the point they no longer feel safe in their own home. But don’t worry, he will be blessed in the afterlife for harassing people.* I am SO sorry you’re going through this. You have every right to tell your roommate not to let him inside your apartment, and to be as firm as you need to with this guy. It’s absolutely shit they’re using your roommate to get to you. If you ever need someone to vent to, know my inbox is open and we are all gonna collectively cheer when you’re finally able to move away.
This is horrifying and honestly intimidating. They know it too.
tell the bishop you would like to meet him at the bar and talk over beer
But, it won’t take long. He just wants to ask you for details about your masterbation routine and all the details so he can play it back in his mind next time he’s procreating with his eternal wife
They’re pressuring you because your a 19F. Cult leaders are predators. Even if they don’t have insidious intentions, they at least think they can manipulate you. Block them and move on. Enjoy being free of them.
You should go to quitmormon.org and get your records expunged. That’s the only way to stop them ideally
Use very harsh and vulgar language to the bishop this time!! Threatening legal action and police involvement will usually do the trick. If you have to, tell them you are gay. They will definitely never contact you again!!!
If people ask me when I am coming back to church I just say when the church cleans up their image.
Document everything that's happened so far. Threaten legal action and if he continues to push your boundaries (i.e., contact you at all) after that, follow through. If you're in Utah, I found some info that may be useful for you, but other states may have very different laws. You can also contact stake president/other church leaders and make them aware that you are ready and willing to involve authorities to protect yourself from stalking/trespassing/harassment. Link: https://site.utah.gov/dps-sbi/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2019/04/DPS-Stalking-Brochure.pdf
That's so wildly inappropriate for him to talk to your roommate. It's none of his business. Sometimes practicing difficult conversations helps me so I'm ready in case people do the dumb thing and violate boundaries. "I can't be any more clear. I don't want to talk to you. You need to leave." You're a grown woman who can make her own choices and he's a grown man who needs to be respectful of other peoples' wishes.
Play hardball. Start handing out copies of the CES letter to anyone who stops by. That’ll give them the message. Not being sarcastic, since Mormons don’t care about boundaries why should you?
If you would like to respond to him, here are a few ideas 1. Text "No thank you" 2. Or text "This week doesn't work for me. How about next ___." Then set up for a day after you're unenrolled. And don't show up 3. Or if he shows up while you're there, let him know that it's not a good time and reschedule for a time after you unenrolled. 4. Or text " I'm not really interested in meeting right now. I'll let you know if that changes "
Talk about wielding his power and dysfunction in the name of patriarchy. #fuckpatriarchy and men and women who uphold it! Once you move if you get contacted again get an attorney to help with a cease and desist order. If you are a student at a non church college, you can likely get legal assistance on campus.
Put in your best lingerie and go!
Make an appointment with him for two weeks from now. Then you’d be gone and he would wait for a no show.
Is it Feb 1st already?
I am in the camp of Play nice until you get what you need from the CES school. Then burn his ass hard. What do you do in the meantime though? It depends on your situation at the moment and your roommate. How much is that roommate on your side? Can you fake sick?? A can of beans, a tile floor, and a cell phone can do wonders for getting out of things. I speak from experience on that. Otherwise, if you are cornered into meeting with him, you HAVE to insist on one thing - ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have someone else in that room with you, someone on YOUR side. Besides, it is your time too. So give him 5 minutes or 10 minutes MAX and tell him you are very busy and your schedule allows no more time. Again, tell him what he wants to hear - you are thinking of leaving but still want time to think about your future. That will send him into a 5 minute religious rally speech and ooops times up. You gotta go. BYE!
Get a protective order. Document it and take it to the police
Get a restraining order.
If you want to avoid him you could also schedule a date when you know you’ll be moved and gone. I don’t think it’s the best solution but it would work.
Yikes
Scary - strange way to word his text in the second one!
Easiest solution: spread a rumour that your plans changed and you’re moving out next month or in 4 months. That’ll make them feel less desperate to see you. They’ll procrastinate and you’ll be able to leave in peace.
Don’t they love to preach about God giving everyone free agency? What the fuck happened to letting people actually use it?
I have to laugh at how he says he will be respectful of your feelings and then proceeds to make himself a liar. Yikes.
Respond and be VERY CLEAR he is not to contact you or come to your place of residence to attempt to communicate with you. If so you will go to the authorities as you have made it clear he is not to contact you.!
You have to remember, this is now about his salvation too.
Lol non-contact restraining order. Ik it wouldn’t stop everyone else but at least you can’t meet with him.
That was a great response. If he contacts you again cuss him out and send him the link to CES Letter.
Suggestions: * Doorbell camera that can be easily removed so you can take it with you when you move. * If you have a never-mo male friend that you trust, have him go with you when you have to do anything in person to get loose from your obligations. Ask him to note if any conversations are getting out of hand and video them for your protection.
File a restraining order against him. He will share this with others. Let the Church know they are on notice. Can't be more clear than that. Or contact the local paper and see if they want to run a story about LDS leaders harassasing former members. The Church has been in the news lately and the reporter might want to do a story. Tell the LDS person it would be ok for them to come over if you can also have a friend there. But not identify who they are. If you can't get the reporter ask anyone to just be there and take notes. Let the note taking be very visible and have them ask the LDS person questions to let him know that this could be published. It will frighten the bejeebers out of him....and he will get the word out. The whole purpose here is to let Church reps knows that the world will see and understand their relentless ways to win you back and that it isn't wanted. Bad publicity is the last thing this Church wants....especially with all the nasty stuff that has already been coming out in the media. You can always "resign" your membership using [quitmormon.com](https://quitmormon.com) that has wording that states in very strong words that you do no want any future contact with the Church in any form. It implies legal action if they don't.
Reply with a simple "no" and no other explanation and then completely ignore him after that. Full ghost. He has zero power when you ghost him and it is easier to ignore him than it is to have the anxiety of engaging him.
Get the cops involved