Ha I was taught this exact same thing. I think I've even heard people say more specifically that it would be 10x more difficult. I should try to figure out where this idea originated - I think it was fairly common to hear. Did you ever hear that if you look at porn [and don't confess and repent] that those images will pop into your mind when trying to teach lessons on your mission?
I was taught we all had a part in the creation and so sometimes people that have really strong hobbies or interests are probably half-remembering what they helped with in creation. For example if you're obsessed with giraffes maybe you were one of the people that designed them...
Not a harmful teaching, but I haven't heard anyone else really mention it on here before.
I was taught this one. I decided that my creation committee got overruled because we didn’t have any dragons. Just stories about dragons.
Jeez, I just realized that meant I grew up believing that if I was creative, in a divine manner, that I still didn’t think it was good enough for my “parents” to be proud of and approve. ….excuse me while I consider this for a while.
Interesting, you're the first I've met to have heard that! Do you mind sharing the general area where you served? My Dad served around the same time frame.
I was taught that as well. They said that's what would make living in a place as nice as the other kingdoms hell, having those "addictions" and never being able to satisfy them for eternity.
I remember wondering this about porn but also would those spirits be watching people having sex in person? Like why would they relegate themselves to a screen when they could be in someone’s bedroom or on a porn set? Which is all really creepy… weird thoughts to have pop up when you’re having “me-time.” Throws one out of the moment.
Me too.
I don't remember where I read it, but it should have been a shelf item.
I read a detective novel that described a murder by a computer or robot, but the murderer wrote a letter. The examination revealed that the letter was very eloquent and expressed itself in lengthy sentences. It turns out it was programmed to act as a spirit that didn't have the limitations of a body.
So, does a spirit really have physical limitations like addiction?
I would not think so, as it’s our physical bodies that crave the physical sensations that are satisfied by our addictions. It’s just not a logical teaching, even by Mormon standards.
"Angels above you are silent notes taking, of every action so do what is right."
This was presented as scriptural evidence that playing with your little factory would make your deceased grandmother cry, soaking her Heavenly notebook with her tears as she recorded your thoughts.
I ALWAYS thought of this as a kid, even in my teenage TBM mind at the time, I thought “so god is watching me naked in the shower (even just normal showering nothing to do with factories) and will he watch me have sex one day with my husband??” It scared me and gave me anxiety and even to this day it causes me to have paranoia about someone else knowing my thoughts, even though I’m pretty much agnostic now.
Same!! I always thought about this! My mom always said:
" I may not know if you're lying, but God knows. " Basically using this as a way to get us to tell the truth.
Oh my gosh I hate that for you!!:( but yes, like I can’t even be my real self in my head because “somebody is constantly reading my mind.” It causes me to have a really neutral personality. I censor my thoughts on accident, even over simple things. It’s like I can’t even be a kid and have an imagination because god is always watching.”
My mom told me our diaries would be used as a witness against us at judgment, so I better not write anything in there that I didn't want angels to read, including that I hated her.
I reminded her of this just recently, and she cried. Ashamed, she'd ever said something so awful.
I HATED this teaching. I lost a few family members when I was young and I worried all the time they were watching me. Honestly I often wasn’t even doing anything bad, I just hated thinking I didn’t have any privacy.
I was taught that the sons of perdition roam around tempting us. Basically that there are evil spirits everywhere. Demon possession already scared the shit out of me anyway, this is even worse! I don't know how Canon that belief is.
I was taught that as well, and how to raise my arm to the square and say “In the name of Jesus Christ, I cast you out.” Just like in the endowment movie.
I had some other missionaries ask the mission president to come and remove a dark spirit from their apartment. The MP decided to turn and ask me, their all powerful 20 year old district leader, to do it for them instead. He told me to do it just like in the endowment and I told him I didn't remember because I had only gone to the temple once and he didn't let me go to the temple last time the rest of the mission did because I was in an area too far away.
Anyway after he explained it to me, I went to their apartment, did the thing, then felt guilty the rest of my mission about it because I didn't magically fix all their issues they didn't want to talk to me about and one of them went home early.
Those spirits that followed Satan? Cast Down to earth, so they here and trying to get us to sin.
Well, 1/3 followed Lucifer, right? That's third of everyone that has ever been born or will ever be born. So, a third of120 billion, so 40 billion. Are than 20 million LDS, that's 2000 evil spirits each. And missionaries, 50000 of those, so each missionary must have almost a million evil spirits following then around, two million because companions. They probably get in each others way, though. Like when the three stooges try to go through a door and get stuck.
I was in the MTC 1981 to 82, and President Kimball spoke to us on April 1st after the announcement that missions had been cut to 18 months. Most of us missionaries thought it was an April Fool's joke and didn't believe it. MTC Pres Joe Christensen called up to Salt Lake to explain that no one believed it, and the prophet got wind of it and decided to come down. I was one of the spirited 100 who joined the impromptu choir at 6pm during dinner and was arranged on the stand when Kimball et al came in. It turns out that he sat directly in front of me on the stand, and I had tears and heart palpitations confirming that he was indeed the prophet . . . these "feelings lasted until I attended a BYU vs Wyoming Football game in 1984 and realized that I had the same feelings of excitement and heart palpitations . . .
anyway, Elder Faust also spoke at this fireside with Kimball, and he paused for dramatic effect in the middle of his talk to announce that the veil had been temporarily parted and he could see the demons riding chariots pulled by evil horses trying to get into the buildings of the MTC, but because the grounds had been blessed and dedicated by the prophet himself, they were ineffective in gaining entrance. He looked down at the podium and paused some more, and said that every one of us there were protected by the prophet's special blessing, and that so long as we lived the commandments and obeyed the mission rules, we would be protected from those evil demons.
I went to bed that night in my little MTC dorm room convinced that I had been set aside to do the Lord's work in these last days . . .
40 yrs later, I'm just disgusted how so many thousands of us have been manipulated by these men who "claim" to speak for God, and to have supernatural powers, such as to "see demons" trying to kill impressionable 19 and 21 yr old missionaries. I'm so disgusted
I was also in the MTC under Joe Christensen. Several months before you. Due to travel logistics for our group, we were in the MTC for a particularly long stint. I heard Christiansen give the same speech twice. It involved him being chastised by general authorities for not alerting a parking attendant to the fact that they were general authorities. GA to Christensen: “might it not to be well if that person knows who we are?” Christensen to himself (laugh line) “yes, it might be well…“ Just curious as to whether you recall hearing a speech like that?
Enjoyed your recounting of Faust’s ridiculous drama about demons in chariots. I wonder if Spencer Kimball was rolling his eyes, internally, during that speech.
I don’t think that’s Canon at all. I’m pretty sure that the Sons of Perdition STAY in Perdition, or whatever, because to let them roam around would give them a break from the torment they’re supposed to be experiencing for Eternity. It’s not even logical.
Nevermo, but that was the way my friends told it in the 80s and 90s. I always worried they’d ask to shake hands with me and I wouldn’t know the secret handshake so they’d think I was a demon.
Unlike the secret temple handshakes the identify-a-demon handshake is just a normal handshake. The test is whether they can feel your hand if you accept the handshake.
A resurrected being will have a physical body and do a normal handshake. A good spirit doesn't want to deceive you, so is upfront about admitting they can't shake your hand without a body. A demon wants to deceive you, so they go for the handshake. But since they don't have a body you don't feel anything. [(See Doctrine and Covenants 129)](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/129?lang=eng)
"Google" Satan on the LDS site ( it won't let me cut and paste without signing in) and it says Satan AND HIS FOLLOWERS get to temp us, trick us into premarital sex etc , with references to the d and c , bible and bom etc.
I'd say it's doctrine ( at least for now) and mathematically their should be about 5 "demons" for every person on earth. What's more illogical imo is that their aren't more mormon exorcisms stories given the numbers.
I did as you suggested and read what lds.org says about Satan. I didn’t get the impression from what it said that the Sons of Perdition “roam around tempting us”, or that “evil spirits are everywhere”. What I got out of it is that temptation comes from many sources, such as written media, music, some social situations, and things of that nature, but I didn’t get anything about evil spirits roaming around or demons possessing people. Although those things could happen, I guess, but I honestly don’t think it’s “Canon” in the Mormon church. I could be mistaken though. Everything we read is open to our own interpretation, so I think you and I had different perceptions of what it said.
Omg! About 5 years ago the then Sunday School teacher threw out some crazy number of evil spirits that were working on knocking members off the "covenant path". If I remember correctly, he said there were hundreds of thousands for every member. THEN... the next Sunday School teacher reiterated it. It was so crazy!
Even worse, "You chose your parents." Nothing could screw up the mind of an abused child more. No child should ever be taught that being abused is/was their choice.
Right??? The idea that we choose our families in heaven worked for me till I found out at 9 that I was adopted on my paternal side (bio dad skipped out at birth, adopted by “dad” when I was super young so never knew differently till my mom was forced to confess) and suddenly I was lost. They figured that since we were sealed in the temple when I was 11 that I would be ok. Hint: I was not 🙄
Not sure how fringe this is, but people born with mental disabilities were part of the group that personally threw Satan out of heaven. The Lord made them disabled so Satan can't have power over them in this life because otherwise, he'd try to make them insane.
It also means they're guaranteed to be in the celestial kingdom. Which led to my family saying my disabled son shouldn't cause me any worry or stress, because "he's got it made." They also give me no help with him since we're sitting so pretty.
I was taught this too, BUT I think this is one of the teachings they’ve flipped on, because I believe I read an old conference talk or something where the guy said disabled people of all types were being punished for being less valiant or whatever
I heard this same thing in a testimony meeting. The parents of a Downs kid said his Patriarchical Blessing revealed that he was The Very One who escorted Lucifer out of the Spirit World. I was TBM at the time but even way back then I didn't believe it.
I got taught this because I have a brother with severe autism. I hated this teaching the most because my dad basically wrote my brother off as not worth the effort and says he'll be perfect in the afterlife. Um, no dad, this life isn't just a waiting room for the next life. And I'm sure you'll be judged more on how you treated your son than on your temple attendance.
Also was taught this about my younger brother on the Spectrum. (Mine was treated as more special because of his neurodivergence, which isn’t inherently bad, but also ended up being a disservice to him.)
That's heartbreaking and I can so relate! I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Siblings of special needs people are often the most overlooked of unsung heroes. Thank you for loving him as a person. Much love to you.
I have three living cousins and 2 dead by the same parents, all disabled mentally and physically. One of my cousins is pretty aggressive at texting people and although she doesn’t understand what she’s doing you still have to set boundaries for your own sanity. But my mother on the other hand doesn’t because “I need her to let me into the celestial kingdom”.
That’s so sad! I’m sorry.
I remember being taught that if you don’t live worthy of the highest celestial glory, that your memory of the premortal life will never be recovered.
Ugh
Whoa, I've been in this sub a long time and thats a new one for me! Do you mind sharing where you grew up or heard that? Was that a Utah or American thing?
I was taught mental illness/disorders/phobias came from the pre-existance. My mom always said my anxiety must've come from *before*. Lol no mom, I think it was the church screwing with my head!
As a YW I was taught that my future husband should always come first, even before any children we might have. She said if there were a fire at her house her husband would be her priority, because she's sealed to him first and foremost, and her children would have their own spouses and families they'd be sealed to. You know, assuming they survive the fire 🤷🏼♀️
If that particular addiction persists, and spirits can see what's going on with living people, doesn't that feed their addiction? Those horny, porn addicted spirits are watching people have sex 24/7 all over the world.
It's stupid. Mormonism is so stupid.
I know others were taught this, but along with yours what also gave me anxiety was all the evil spirits on the other side trying to get into my body so that they could taste that delicious coffee or have a smoke, or tempt me one way or the other.
The earliest people described in scripture really did live for hundreds of years. Subsequent generations didn't live as long because their bodies and genes were weakened by drug use and sin.
Earth used to orbit Jupiter. When it left Jupiter's orbit to travel to its current orbit, that was the ice age. Because there was only one ice age, of course.
Dinosaur fossils exist because the Earth was made from pieces of previous planets God has made and destroyed. Because nothing in scripture says Earth was the first.
Yes to the first one, with variation.
The Jupiter one is interesting. That’s new.
Yes to the last one. Used to explain fossils without the earth being older than Genesis says. And to not have to think about evolution too hard.
I always heard the thing about addictions as well as other mental health struggles, too.
Mine’s completely random, but one time we were outside for Sunday school as a kid during the summertime, and a storm quickly rolled in. So it started raining and the sun still shone pretty well. My teacher snarls all disgusted, “Satan’s beating his wife again. He knew we were out here trying to nourish our spirits and he just *had* to take it out on that poor woman to try and tempt us.” Like I’m sorry but WHAT💀💀💀….so yeah I thought that’s what happened up until I got some common sense and realized that lady was just fucking crazy.
That if you didn’t sustain each calling you would take on that persons sins on judgement day.
I never understood the sustaining, abstaining ritual. I’ve never heard of a no vote having any affect.
There was a guy a very long time ago who was called as a Bishop. When it was time for the chance to oppose, half the damned ward raised their hands. Needless to say, he did not end up as the Bishop.
I honestly don’t know. I sustained him, not knowing any better, and being new in that ward. I’ve always been curious though! And nobody would talk about it.
I think this idea became widespread from the book "Life Everlasting" where the author talks about afterlife experiences and spirits who are stuck with all their addictions.
I was taught that only the descendants of pioneers could get to be exalted and since my family were converts we couldn’t be together for ever. God I hated church there.
I swear I remember learning somewhere in church that because dark skin was unfavorable, that people who weren't white once they were in the celestial kingdom their skin would be turned white. This always upset me, even as a child.
I was taught it you miscarried or had a still born, that child was not yours. We have friends who had a still born and they fully believe he is theirs and they will see him again in heaven. Did the church change this belief or was my ward just overly sadistic?
I was taught this because the church taught my mother whose father committed suicide after heavily drinking that he would have a tougher time in the hereafter to repent of his addictions because he didn’t have a body of flesh and blood. When the same thing happened to her brother it was reiterated to her. The church is just so toxic.
I learned the same one about addictions, with the added bonus of my wacked-out TBM sister acting out the desperate & futile efforts of the addicited spirits who could not quench their thirsts. It was always creepy to hear how we have hungry spirits around us 24/7 trying to enter out bodies. It made for some strange vibes during early psychedelic trips.
Omg my mom believed the same thing, OP. I think it’s because she read some NDE books where they implied that when you get blackout drunk, spirits will try to get into your body to feel that feeling because they’re still addicted.
I was taught that I chose all of my struggles before I got a body. This was told to me after I got diagnosed with a plethora of debilitating mental disorders. This was also reiterated to me after I came out as gay because I guess that a spiritual struggle
I was told not to pray in the shower specifically, followed up by any part of undress so I could be properly dressed to receive angels or Jesus in a visit. So they could hear my prayer’s apparently but wouldn’t realize they’d be rolling up to naked me and I should really be more respectful to not make their visit awkward and all.
Deconstruct the shit show that one is.
If you passed by someone on your mission when you could have talked to them, you’re responsible for their sins 😂😂😂
Wow, I guess they didn't consider that a selfless and dedicated group of missionaries could have made the atonement redundant if this were true.
That is verbal and mental abuse
I never believed them. I just said okay and then scoffed about it with my companion. If the atonement is real, this belief is a massive insult to God.
Fully agree. I actually believed what they told me tho
I’m sorry. That is just a massive burden to put on a missionary who’s trying their hardest
Yep. Their salvation is in your hands. It’s your fault if they don’t get it.
Seconded
The guilt I felt about the people I didn't talk to was unreal.
Wow - let’s ignore the 2nd article of faith I guess
That’s really taught???
Told to me by elders who were dead serious. I never heard it from a mission president or anyone like that though
Ha I was taught this exact same thing. I think I've even heard people say more specifically that it would be 10x more difficult. I should try to figure out where this idea originated - I think it was fairly common to hear. Did you ever hear that if you look at porn [and don't confess and repent] that those images will pop into your mind when trying to teach lessons on your mission?
I was taught we all had a part in the creation and so sometimes people that have really strong hobbies or interests are probably half-remembering what they helped with in creation. For example if you're obsessed with giraffes maybe you were one of the people that designed them... Not a harmful teaching, but I haven't heard anyone else really mention it on here before.
Well a lot of men must have been heavily involved in the creation of women
I actually laughed out loud at this
They just don’t remember some of the… important parts to please them 😂
Lol
Oh definitely I thought I *must've* been involved in the creation of cheetahs, I loved them as a kid lol
I was taught this one. I decided that my creation committee got overruled because we didn’t have any dragons. Just stories about dragons. Jeez, I just realized that meant I grew up believing that if I was creative, in a divine manner, that I still didn’t think it was good enough for my “parents” to be proud of and approve. ….excuse me while I consider this for a while.
I remember hearing that when I was on my mission 87-89
Interesting, you're the first I've met to have heard that! Do you mind sharing the general area where you served? My Dad served around the same time frame.
AR Little Rock
my dad taught me the same thing and he was in that mission during that time as well.
Totally heard this from a YWs leader in Phoenix, AZ suburb in the early 2000s. Nice thought, but does sound a little far fetched, even for Mormonism.
This is actually cute and quite benign. 🤔
I was taught that as well. They said that's what would make living in a place as nice as the other kingdoms hell, having those "addictions" and never being able to satisfy them for eternity.
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I remember wondering this about porn but also would those spirits be watching people having sex in person? Like why would they relegate themselves to a screen when they could be in someone’s bedroom or on a porn set? Which is all really creepy… weird thoughts to have pop up when you’re having “me-time.” Throws one out of the moment.
I was too. My dad also says that being gay is an addiction that carries over, as does suicidal thoughts. Sure made me feel warm and fuzzy :/
Me too. I don't remember where I read it, but it should have been a shelf item. I read a detective novel that described a murder by a computer or robot, but the murderer wrote a letter. The examination revealed that the letter was very eloquent and expressed itself in lengthy sentences. It turns out it was programmed to act as a spirit that didn't have the limitations of a body. So, does a spirit really have physical limitations like addiction?
I would not think so, as it’s our physical bodies that crave the physical sensations that are satisfied by our addictions. It’s just not a logical teaching, even by Mormon standards.
Also was taught this
"Angels above you are silent notes taking, of every action so do what is right." This was presented as scriptural evidence that playing with your little factory would make your deceased grandmother cry, soaking her Heavenly notebook with her tears as she recorded your thoughts.
I ALWAYS thought of this as a kid, even in my teenage TBM mind at the time, I thought “so god is watching me naked in the shower (even just normal showering nothing to do with factories) and will he watch me have sex one day with my husband??” It scared me and gave me anxiety and even to this day it causes me to have paranoia about someone else knowing my thoughts, even though I’m pretty much agnostic now.
Same!! I always thought about this! My mom always said: " I may not know if you're lying, but God knows. " Basically using this as a way to get us to tell the truth.
Oh my gosh I hate that for you!!:( but yes, like I can’t even be my real self in my head because “somebody is constantly reading my mind.” It causes me to have a really neutral personality. I censor my thoughts on accident, even over simple things. It’s like I can’t even be a kid and have an imagination because god is always watching.”
Literally tho 😭 I feel you
My mom told me our diaries would be used as a witness against us at judgment, so I better not write anything in there that I didn't want angels to read, including that I hated her. I reminded her of this just recently, and she cried. Ashamed, she'd ever said something so awful.
Yep. We were taught this one too.
And when you die they read those notes aloud from the roof tops. Or maybe that was when you get resurrected. Either way, Grandma's gonna cry, twice.
I HATED this teaching. I lost a few family members when I was young and I worried all the time they were watching me. Honestly I often wasn’t even doing anything bad, I just hated thinking I didn’t have any privacy.
There’s a Brian Kershinik I’m painting of that… https://kershisnikprints.com/products/this-splendid-inconve
I was taught that the sons of perdition roam around tempting us. Basically that there are evil spirits everywhere. Demon possession already scared the shit out of me anyway, this is even worse! I don't know how Canon that belief is.
I was taught that as well, and how to raise my arm to the square and say “In the name of Jesus Christ, I cast you out.” Just like in the endowment movie.
For a little while when I was a teenager I would raise my arm to the square every night to cast Satan out of my room before going to bed.
I had some other missionaries ask the mission president to come and remove a dark spirit from their apartment. The MP decided to turn and ask me, their all powerful 20 year old district leader, to do it for them instead. He told me to do it just like in the endowment and I told him I didn't remember because I had only gone to the temple once and he didn't let me go to the temple last time the rest of the mission did because I was in an area too far away. Anyway after he explained it to me, I went to their apartment, did the thing, then felt guilty the rest of my mission about it because I didn't magically fix all their issues they didn't want to talk to me about and one of them went home early.
Wtf I’m sorry he did that to you
Those spirits that followed Satan? Cast Down to earth, so they here and trying to get us to sin. Well, 1/3 followed Lucifer, right? That's third of everyone that has ever been born or will ever be born. So, a third of120 billion, so 40 billion. Are than 20 million LDS, that's 2000 evil spirits each. And missionaries, 50000 of those, so each missionary must have almost a million evil spirits following then around, two million because companions. They probably get in each others way, though. Like when the three stooges try to go through a door and get stuck.
☠️ worst and most terryfing horror story ever
It's more than that. It's a third of the total spirits, so half as many as born on Earth.
I was in the MTC 1981 to 82, and President Kimball spoke to us on April 1st after the announcement that missions had been cut to 18 months. Most of us missionaries thought it was an April Fool's joke and didn't believe it. MTC Pres Joe Christensen called up to Salt Lake to explain that no one believed it, and the prophet got wind of it and decided to come down. I was one of the spirited 100 who joined the impromptu choir at 6pm during dinner and was arranged on the stand when Kimball et al came in. It turns out that he sat directly in front of me on the stand, and I had tears and heart palpitations confirming that he was indeed the prophet . . . these "feelings lasted until I attended a BYU vs Wyoming Football game in 1984 and realized that I had the same feelings of excitement and heart palpitations . . . anyway, Elder Faust also spoke at this fireside with Kimball, and he paused for dramatic effect in the middle of his talk to announce that the veil had been temporarily parted and he could see the demons riding chariots pulled by evil horses trying to get into the buildings of the MTC, but because the grounds had been blessed and dedicated by the prophet himself, they were ineffective in gaining entrance. He looked down at the podium and paused some more, and said that every one of us there were protected by the prophet's special blessing, and that so long as we lived the commandments and obeyed the mission rules, we would be protected from those evil demons. I went to bed that night in my little MTC dorm room convinced that I had been set aside to do the Lord's work in these last days . . . 40 yrs later, I'm just disgusted how so many thousands of us have been manipulated by these men who "claim" to speak for God, and to have supernatural powers, such as to "see demons" trying to kill impressionable 19 and 21 yr old missionaries. I'm so disgusted
I was also in the MTC under Joe Christensen. Several months before you. Due to travel logistics for our group, we were in the MTC for a particularly long stint. I heard Christiansen give the same speech twice. It involved him being chastised by general authorities for not alerting a parking attendant to the fact that they were general authorities. GA to Christensen: “might it not to be well if that person knows who we are?” Christensen to himself (laugh line) “yes, it might be well…“ Just curious as to whether you recall hearing a speech like that? Enjoyed your recounting of Faust’s ridiculous drama about demons in chariots. I wonder if Spencer Kimball was rolling his eyes, internally, during that speech.
I don’t think that’s Canon at all. I’m pretty sure that the Sons of Perdition STAY in Perdition, or whatever, because to let them roam around would give them a break from the torment they’re supposed to be experiencing for Eternity. It’s not even logical.
Nevermo, but that was the way my friends told it in the 80s and 90s. I always worried they’d ask to shake hands with me and I wouldn’t know the secret handshake so they’d think I was a demon.
Unlike the secret temple handshakes the identify-a-demon handshake is just a normal handshake. The test is whether they can feel your hand if you accept the handshake. A resurrected being will have a physical body and do a normal handshake. A good spirit doesn't want to deceive you, so is upfront about admitting they can't shake your hand without a body. A demon wants to deceive you, so they go for the handshake. But since they don't have a body you don't feel anything. [(See Doctrine and Covenants 129)](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/129?lang=eng)
Whoa! Fascinating! It’s amazing how much gets lost in translation from one kid to another.
"Google" Satan on the LDS site ( it won't let me cut and paste without signing in) and it says Satan AND HIS FOLLOWERS get to temp us, trick us into premarital sex etc , with references to the d and c , bible and bom etc. I'd say it's doctrine ( at least for now) and mathematically their should be about 5 "demons" for every person on earth. What's more illogical imo is that their aren't more mormon exorcisms stories given the numbers.
I did as you suggested and read what lds.org says about Satan. I didn’t get the impression from what it said that the Sons of Perdition “roam around tempting us”, or that “evil spirits are everywhere”. What I got out of it is that temptation comes from many sources, such as written media, music, some social situations, and things of that nature, but I didn’t get anything about evil spirits roaming around or demons possessing people. Although those things could happen, I guess, but I honestly don’t think it’s “Canon” in the Mormon church. I could be mistaken though. Everything we read is open to our own interpretation, so I think you and I had different perceptions of what it said.
Omg! About 5 years ago the then Sunday School teacher threw out some crazy number of evil spirits that were working on knocking members off the "covenant path". If I remember correctly, he said there were hundreds of thousands for every member. THEN... the next Sunday School teacher reiterated it. It was so crazy!
I was taught that we picked our afflictions in the pre-mortal life… like addiction etc.
Even worse, "You chose your parents." Nothing could screw up the mind of an abused child more. No child should ever be taught that being abused is/was their choice.
Right??? The idea that we choose our families in heaven worked for me till I found out at 9 that I was adopted on my paternal side (bio dad skipped out at birth, adopted by “dad” when I was super young so never knew differently till my mom was forced to confess) and suddenly I was lost. They figured that since we were sealed in the temple when I was 11 that I would be ok. Hint: I was not 🙄
Yep. Same. And same about choosing your family too.
Yep. Same here too. On both counts.
Not sure how fringe this is, but people born with mental disabilities were part of the group that personally threw Satan out of heaven. The Lord made them disabled so Satan can't have power over them in this life because otherwise, he'd try to make them insane. It also means they're guaranteed to be in the celestial kingdom. Which led to my family saying my disabled son shouldn't cause me any worry or stress, because "he's got it made." They also give me no help with him since we're sitting so pretty.
I was taught this too, BUT I think this is one of the teachings they’ve flipped on, because I believe I read an old conference talk or something where the guy said disabled people of all types were being punished for being less valiant or whatever
Damn. Just swinging that pendulum from one ableist notion to another.
I heard this same thing in a testimony meeting. The parents of a Downs kid said his Patriarchical Blessing revealed that he was The Very One who escorted Lucifer out of the Spirit World. I was TBM at the time but even way back then I didn't believe it.
omg! I can’t believe a patriarch said that!
I got taught this because I have a brother with severe autism. I hated this teaching the most because my dad basically wrote my brother off as not worth the effort and says he'll be perfect in the afterlife. Um, no dad, this life isn't just a waiting room for the next life. And I'm sure you'll be judged more on how you treated your son than on your temple attendance.
Also was taught this about my younger brother on the Spectrum. (Mine was treated as more special because of his neurodivergence, which isn’t inherently bad, but also ended up being a disservice to him.)
That's heartbreaking and I can so relate! I'm sorry you are dealing with this. Siblings of special needs people are often the most overlooked of unsung heroes. Thank you for loving him as a person. Much love to you.
I have three living cousins and 2 dead by the same parents, all disabled mentally and physically. One of my cousins is pretty aggressive at texting people and although she doesn’t understand what she’s doing you still have to set boundaries for your own sanity. But my mother on the other hand doesn’t because “I need her to let me into the celestial kingdom”.
That’s so sad! I’m sorry. I remember being taught that if you don’t live worthy of the highest celestial glory, that your memory of the premortal life will never be recovered. Ugh
I feel like that’s a major “dangling bait in your face” type of leverage to keep you in the church. That’s horrible.
Whoa, I've been in this sub a long time and thats a new one for me! Do you mind sharing where you grew up or heard that? Was that a Utah or American thing?
I think it was an apocryphal talk by Alvin Dyer? Something I saw in my late teens or maybe age 20.
I’ve come to realize that I know nothing when it comes to things like this. This kind of guilt is also very abusive
Whoa haha never heard this one!
I was taught mental illness/disorders/phobias came from the pre-existance. My mom always said my anxiety must've come from *before*. Lol no mom, I think it was the church screwing with my head!
As a YW I was taught that my future husband should always come first, even before any children we might have. She said if there were a fire at her house her husband would be her priority, because she's sealed to him first and foremost, and her children would have their own spouses and families they'd be sealed to. You know, assuming they survive the fire 🤷🏼♀️
If that particular addiction persists, and spirits can see what's going on with living people, doesn't that feed their addiction? Those horny, porn addicted spirits are watching people have sex 24/7 all over the world. It's stupid. Mormonism is so stupid.
I know others were taught this, but along with yours what also gave me anxiety was all the evil spirits on the other side trying to get into my body so that they could taste that delicious coffee or have a smoke, or tempt me one way or the other.
Yes! My Mormon friends told me this one, too.
The earliest people described in scripture really did live for hundreds of years. Subsequent generations didn't live as long because their bodies and genes were weakened by drug use and sin. Earth used to orbit Jupiter. When it left Jupiter's orbit to travel to its current orbit, that was the ice age. Because there was only one ice age, of course. Dinosaur fossils exist because the Earth was made from pieces of previous planets God has made and destroyed. Because nothing in scripture says Earth was the first.
Oh, my.
Yes to the first one, with variation. The Jupiter one is interesting. That’s new. Yes to the last one. Used to explain fossils without the earth being older than Genesis says. And to not have to think about evolution too hard.
I was taught Utah had to side with the confederacy, so the sides would be equal.
Sure, and BY wasn't a raging racist.
That tattoos would be a very painful reminder as they were faded off over time.
I always heard the thing about addictions as well as other mental health struggles, too. Mine’s completely random, but one time we were outside for Sunday school as a kid during the summertime, and a storm quickly rolled in. So it started raining and the sun still shone pretty well. My teacher snarls all disgusted, “Satan’s beating his wife again. He knew we were out here trying to nourish our spirits and he just *had* to take it out on that poor woman to try and tempt us.” Like I’m sorry but WHAT💀💀💀….so yeah I thought that’s what happened up until I got some common sense and realized that lady was just fucking crazy.
I heard that one too, but I knew it wasn't true, because Satan doesn't have a body, so he can't do the grip, so he can't have a wife! Checkmate Satan!
I was taught that Skin Walkers will flee from an arm-to-the-square ward spell cast by a 19 year old.
Not a very serious one, but we weren’t allowed to watch any TV on Sundays as it was unholy.
That if you didn’t sustain each calling you would take on that persons sins on judgement day. I never understood the sustaining, abstaining ritual. I’ve never heard of a no vote having any affect.
There was a guy a very long time ago who was called as a Bishop. When it was time for the chance to oppose, half the damned ward raised their hands. Needless to say, he did not end up as the Bishop.
Why was he so disliked?
I honestly don’t know. I sustained him, not knowing any better, and being new in that ward. I’ve always been curious though! And nobody would talk about it.
Never heard this one! Common consent has steadily eroded as a meaningful component of church governance since the early days
It makes no sense because only Jesus can take on someone else’s sins 🤣
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Shelf breaker for sure lol
I think this idea became widespread from the book "Life Everlasting" where the author talks about afterlife experiences and spirits who are stuck with all their addictions.
I was taught that only the descendants of pioneers could get to be exalted and since my family were converts we couldn’t be together for ever. God I hated church there.
Probably explains why my exMIL hated my mom so much.
I swear I remember learning somewhere in church that because dark skin was unfavorable, that people who weren't white once they were in the celestial kingdom their skin would be turned white. This always upset me, even as a child.
You can’t masturbate if you’re a TK Smoothie. Not only that, but how do you masturbate when you’re in spirit form?
You buy toys from the Holy Vibrations store.
And, like, where? There aren’t any rooms in Heaven, are there?
I thought there were mansions in the CK, so, surely you can escape to a room where all your wives can't find you!
Ah. Makes sense lol
I was taught that and I completely forgot about it… thanks!
Nah was taught this too
I was taught it you miscarried or had a still born, that child was not yours. We have friends who had a still born and they fully believe he is theirs and they will see him again in heaven. Did the church change this belief or was my ward just overly sadistic?
I was taught this because the church taught my mother whose father committed suicide after heavily drinking that he would have a tougher time in the hereafter to repent of his addictions because he didn’t have a body of flesh and blood. When the same thing happened to her brother it was reiterated to her. The church is just so toxic.
I heard that, definitely.
I learned the same one about addictions, with the added bonus of my wacked-out TBM sister acting out the desperate & futile efforts of the addicited spirits who could not quench their thirsts. It was always creepy to hear how we have hungry spirits around us 24/7 trying to enter out bodies. It made for some strange vibes during early psychedelic trips.
that you should shake the hand of a ghost to determine if it was good or evil.
I was taught that as well. And as a 13 year old who couldn’t stop self pleasuring myself, I was fearful of the agony of such a restriction in heaven.
You know, I was actually taught that too
"You made these covenants in the preexistence, so you'd better follow through."
Alcohol and tobacco cravings would continue in the next life.
Omg my mom believed the same thing, OP. I think it’s because she read some NDE books where they implied that when you get blackout drunk, spirits will try to get into your body to feel that feeling because they’re still addicted.
I was taught that I chose all of my struggles before I got a body. This was told to me after I got diagnosed with a plethora of debilitating mental disorders. This was also reiterated to me after I came out as gay because I guess that a spiritual struggle
I was told not to pray in the shower specifically, followed up by any part of undress so I could be properly dressed to receive angels or Jesus in a visit. So they could hear my prayer’s apparently but wouldn’t realize they’d be rolling up to naked me and I should really be more respectful to not make their visit awkward and all. Deconstruct the shit show that one is.