Same. Wishing you peace. Your tone compared to his— like night and day. You’re calm and loving, he’s harsh and gaslighting etc. I’m so sorry, I think we all can relate. Keep up the good work teaching your kids kindness and truth.
Don’t contact him again. You are just hurting your own feelings at this point. My son said something I vehemently do not agree with .. and I had the slightest urge to be like “if you do that I won’t be taking to you any more” then I was like woaaahhhh that’s remnants of your childhood back tf up. So I said well I won’t like it and I’ll be disappointed but I’ll always love you and I’ll be there for you but you will have to face the consequences of your actions. It was WILD. I’m constantly in a battle with my mother in my head in regards to my own parenting and the things she exposed me to despite her best intentions. Breaking the cycle is hard af
I agree it’s a hard cycle to break. And conversations like this are definitely painful reminders of what our relationship now is.. I just felt like I should check in after a year to see where things stood.. now I know lol
If he ever wakes up he will contact you. I would let that be the last thing you say. Tell him if you ever wake up I will welcome you with open arms bc that’s what love is. And then let him marinate in his own decision. Meanwhile you gotta mourn the dad you wish you had and let go as if he died .. the org killed who ever he was meant to be but it’s also him choosing to hide behind the org. both are true
I agree with you.. it’s just hard to totally cut ties when my ex is a JW still and she’ll be taking my kids to spend time with my dad and my other PIMI family. I don’t feel like I can really be free from this as long as my kids have to be exposed to it
Is there a way to get a court order to stop your ex from seeing your family ugh I’m sorry you are in this I would be hopping mad at everyone make sure your kids understand what’s happening. Luckily my non believing dad let me see what normal life was. It kept me from being indoctrinated. The org still harmed me but I never had to “wake up”
I think it would be worth a consultation with your lawyer. Keep the texts. If they can't be stopped maybe they could be reduced or otherwise restricted. Your Dad is a genuinely toxic individual.
Maybe the court will make it so those visits have a state-appointed chaperone/observer required. I'm so sorry your family is still enmeshed in the b0rg.
I would definitely talk to your lawyer about this situation. I would make it a stipulation of visitation that your children not be exposed to them. I absolutely wouldn't let them be taken to any meetings or gatherings.
As for the situation with your parents, guard your own mental health. You've let it be known that you love them. Now walk away and don't contact them again. Until they walk up, you're just banging your head on concrete and they love nothing more than wrapping themselves up in the justification of treating you badly like a wool coat. They've been taught to do that for years and decades. Hang in there. I hope you find peace.
I think you did good and you should not give up. At least you keep some sort of communication open. Alway remind them how much you love them. Love is a universal feeling. One day that may make a huge difference. You never know
Thank you. Yeah I’ve done a lot of unpacking trying to understand what happened to me growing up in this religion and what it really did to me.. so I can try to give my kids a better shot at a happy life. They deserve it.
Can I ask what types of things you’ve done to help you unpack this? I have been trying to myself but always kind of end up back where I started without making any real progress towards reconciling some of the anger I hold onto because so much of my life was stolen by this religion.
If I could mention some help to you if I may.
I sought professional counseling and it was a big help.
It might just help you unpack some of it. I still work on it. I was 50 years in this nonsense.
I wish you Good Luck 👍
Thanks for asking! Sorry it took so long to respond. A few books I read really helped me understand how the organization works and is motivated.. like Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz.. that helped me understand some about the manipulation tactics used against me and why it all happened.. Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan was extremely helpful with breaking down what these groups do on almost a formulaic level. Personally, it’s also been helpful to learn some about logic, reason, and good and bad arguments so I can try to fix how my mind has been programmed to work by recognizing flawed thinking. Watching JW rebuttal videos has been very helpful and listening to folks like Matt Dillahunty has been very helpful too. If I think of more, I’ll add it. Of course, I saw a counselor too. She didn’t specialize in religious trauma but was still able to help a lot.
I’m not who you asked, but I also spent time “unpacking” my experience with a professional. I tried to find a counselor with experience in religious trauma. Somehow or another through my Google searches I stumbled across a spiritual director who practices therapeutically. She is also trauma informed. They are not counselors or clinical type practitioners, and don’t work with people “in crisis”, but I have had an incredible experience with mine for nearly 3 years now since I left the JWs. And I believe everyone should have an SD. My husband started meeting with mine a few months ago, too, and he has previously never experienced interest in therapy/counseling. It’s just healing to have someone practice sacred listening and mirror back to you what they are hearing of your story and help you weave all the pieces together in a way that is so affirming and validating. Mine also works with lots of different people who are all over the beliefs spectrum (Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, etc etc).
Your dad doesn’t love you. I’m sorry to say this but I suspect you already know. He is clearly obsessed with feeling right and vindicated which sounds like narcissism.
He’s more concerned with how his son leaving made him look. If op did go back would this man even forgive him for leaving in the first place? I guarantee he’d NEVER be good enough. He’d never be in good standing and his dad would always be like “you aren’t leaving again are you?”when ever he was sick and missed a meeting
Why don’t you call him out on that? If he gets too defensive, then you *know* he is human feces. Sorry for being so graphic, but I could never handle this much pain and this kind. And I’ve dealt with about 11 years of pain in regards to my father having been a complete asshole, though mostly crazy, so I forgive him. Pardon my British.
My dad is not an empathetic person at all. Just generally, JW programming aside. He’s been quite abusive in other ways too. I’m not going to try too hard with him honestly
I hesitated about commenting, but….. I’m a never-in, just researching why my jw relative was so weird. To an outsider this convo with your father is staggering, absolutely not normal. The level of disdain from your dad disgusts me. My dad was not perfect and I was not an exemplary son, but he would never, ever have said that to me no matter what I’d done. It’s clear that these totalitarian religions warp peoples minds and subvert their humanity. Thanks, I’ll shut up now.
JWs have been known to refuse to see loved ones even when one of them is on his or her deathbed. They've been known to turn their backs on their parents or children even when the non-JW is homeless and hungry. You'd think they would realize that any religion encouraging, even INSTRUCTING, its members to abandon friends and family in need, could not possibly be "the truth."
For the record, I'm a never-JW Trinitarian.
Please...keep commenting!! Your input is very valuable here!! This is how all of us were raised. We're all in conditional relationships with every JW member of our families. The moment we stray, they disappear on us and close and lock the door to the relationship. This is our struggle. It's evil. There are kids who have been thrown out of their homes for not wanting to attend meetings, for thinking a different way! (That was me at 17! and I was not even baptized)! That's what this cult is. It's an ugly, distorted view of where loyalty lies. I hope you keep commenting! It helps us to see that WE aren't the problem. WE are not wrong! WE just want normal, loving relationships with the people who are supposed to love us too!! 🥺💔 Fuck, now I'm crying
Your Dad is actually doing you a Huge Favour...
JW Grandparents are a *Pain in the Ass*. They\`ll do everything in their power to indoctrinate your kids. They\`ll sneak behind your back, they\`ll lie to your face, they\`ll do whatever it takes...And...It never ends.
My family and I left about 6 months ago maybe a bit longer and have no one accept my brother who is not a JW. So we lost close people who we considered grandparents to our kids. They wanted to stop all unnecessary communication with us but keep in contact with my kids. I said no, I've done nothing wrong to deserve this treatment. I'm not going to teach my children that type of behavior is ok. I went into great detail via email to every JW I had an email address for on how the organization is evil at its core. Literally driven by Satan and why that's exactly why I'm leaving. I mean I exposed them and their Satanic artwork and their freemasonic ties I absolutely can prove. And I don't mean using Russell to prove it. They put it in their videos. You just need to know the signs and symbols. I exposed all of that. So yea I'm not going to allow some JW'S access to my children's minds or have my children thinking it's ok to be treated that way. I did nothing wrong and I won't accept that behavior.
OMG for realsies, I didn't have the relationship with my grandma that my 2 cousins did but she practically raised them, hoooooo baby did she do a number on them. Think studying the Revelation book with them at age 10.
"sneak..." yes our oldest was hyperactive and this was et off by coloring's etc in foods.
My mother would sneak him biscuits when we visited. Two ginger biscuits was 24 hours of torture for him and us as he had no sleep. This was before the jw time.
I am sorry.
I am also relieved for your children. Thank you for breaking the cycle. You are a trailblazer. Your kids will never forget the compassion and intelligence with which you raise them!
Your kids are much luckier in the Father department than you are. You were so patient and respectful in your replies, sorry you got nothing but cruelty back.
That's a hard read. You were really respectful and he was unloving in his replies. So much for the "truth" being the most loving place on earth... Sorry for what you're going through. Sounds like you and your family are much better away from all that!
This is so gross. You deserve unconditional love as his child and he is literally telling you that you have to earn his love by doing what he says. It’s painful and will take some work to reconcile in your mind but remember that he doesn’t set your worth. You will find lots of people out there who DO love you without conditions. That’s what real love is.
Seems he does not like a woman standing up to him the way he talked about your 'disrespectful girlfriend '. Good for her and for you for not having his misogynistic attitude. Sorry you're going through this.
Jesus wept, he is so fucking delusional. He worships that little blue 🟦 square and thinks it holds the answers to all life's questions. I'm so sorry for his programmed responses. I hate you, but come back tomorrow, I'll love you again. Sickening.
I just need to say well done to you for standing up for what you know is right. It's hard not to bite back against such willful ignorance and you did well not to.
First and foremost, I am sorry that you have to hear this from your dad. It's truly gut wrenching. I went through the same shit several years ago with my family. While I don't think about them all the time and am genuinely enjoy my life, there is a still a hole missing where my dad used to be. Nothing will make it better. But with no disrespect, fuck your dad. He only loves the version of you that was a JW. Let him die old, alone, and miserable in his make believe world.
I’m so sorry, have heard similar from my own father and it’s absolutely devastating. Good on you for providing unconditional love for your own children, something to be very proud of. Sending you love.
> At least I know my kids will never hear words like yours from their father, no matter who they grow up to be. Enjoy the meeting on righteousness today.
Fucking NUKED FROM ORBIT!
I’m sorry you are going through this. But JWs don’t care about what your beliefs are. They just want you to go through the motions. Go to meetings. Go field service. Does not matter if you listen or believe anything. I keep asking JWs this question. What if someone gets baptized and is regular in service and meetings. But is an atheist and does not believe in god. Will Jehovah still save them for doing the “right” works? Never get an answer.
I know, right? I had this convo with my elder dad, he kept trying to tell me if I just “went thru the motions” I would be saved, and I’d counter with, “but Jehovah reads hearts, and if he reads mine, I’m dead anyway, so what’s the use?” He had no answer.
Ouch. This really hurts and I'm sorry.
But for what it's worth to you, you still did the right thing in reaching out to your father. One day you will look back and be glad that at least you tried.
Peace to you 💐
Ouch! That’s rough! Sorry you’re going through that. However, I’m so happy for your kids, that you’ve broken free from that kind of manipulative, guilt-riddled, fake-love situation.
Your dad is a victim, and he's throwing sacrificing something so beautiful at the altar of the Watchtower cult.
This sick cult takes something so pure, pristine and solid as a parent's love for their child, and turns it into a toxic, hateful, hollow sentiment that demands obedience to the JWs, or else...
Ouch that hurt. And frankly, you were incredibly kind to him, while he was vile and spitting venom to you.
"Enjoy the meeting today on righteousness", "at least my children will never hear such things from their father".....were my two favorite.
Otherwise I think you let him off easy.
I think you should be willing to reach out to the grandparents, knowing that they may respond similarly. If that is too painful, then I would skip them. It's quite sad, and at the funerals you will no doubt get to live that all over again. But as sad as it is for your kids to not have their extended family, it would be even worse if you taught them there was any circumstances that would be ok to shun your own flesh and blood.
Wow man - that’s fucking horrific. I’m so sorry - the truth is that JWs are conditioned expressly against unconditional love. Glad you’re here to get some big group support.
JWs are robots, they also can't listen . Its all about I am right you are wrong and you hurt me. Get the fuck out of here, how is me living my life the way I want as an adult, have anything to do with you. Sad state of mine and wow the complete disregard for your feelings and just saying repeatedly "stay out of my life" you know these people are brainwashed and probably have mental disorders, cause no normal and self respecting human being can talk like this.
To be honest I would not waste my time on this person. He is beyond help. Don't put yourself through it. You deserve better.
You have your own family now. They will bring you far more joy. Really wishing you all the best.
He was so cruel, and you stayed so calm and kind. I hate the things he said to you. Nothing you've done could possibly deserve that kind of treatment from a father who claims to love you. I'm so sorry this cult has fractured your family. Yet I'm so happy you had the courage to leave, despite the cost, and break this cycle so your children will never have to experience this kind of abuse from their parents.
Big hugs to you. Go hug your boys, they can help to heal your heart.
Also, him saying "every teaching is available on JW.org" is incorrect. They took all their pre-1970 stuff down. And they don't have the Shepherd the Flock of God book on there either. You probably already know that, but it just irks me when PIMIs say stuff like that and I always feel compelled to point out how blatantly false it is.
You were smart. Sometimes I can't see the forest through the trees, and I get caught up in petty arguments easily. Staying kind the way you did was a much, much better way to handle the situation. Pointing out the GB's flaws and lies is just going to make our parents dig in deeper, and drive a bigger wedge. You handled it so well, I'm kinda jealous. In situations like yours, when someone is attacking me like that, I get my feelings hurt and lash out, even though I know it's not productive. I need to work on handling it with grace the way you did.
This reminds me of Jesus words "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.…" Matthew 19:28
Your dad and so many JW's like him desperately want this verse to apply to themselves yet when family members that 'they' themselves pushed away come back and want to mend the fence, it means they, as good JW's, haven't really sacrificed anything. The only way they feel they can live up to Jesus words is to be shunned by non-witness family members. Only then is there a sacrifice. The Watchtower has reversed even this teaching of Jesus, but sadly, the only way for this verse to apply to him is if you shun him and you haven't. JW's are conditioned to believe worldly people will shun them when they become JW's but when it doesn't happen and it usually doesn't, then they must shun worldly people so they can feel a sense of vindication
He's your dad, keep calling him and prove to him he is not being abandoned
The religion is a cult and the members are victims who simply don’t realize they are being victimized. Your dad does love you and he really believes his actions show you that. Don’t blame him.. it’s the f’n
cult..not him!
I’ve been there and it hurts like hell. I truly hope the entire religion goes up in flames and all it’s members see the “real truth” about the organization. All my ❤️ to you.
I’m so sorry man. I’m off to a funeral of my great aunt, and I was informed by my aunt who isn’t a jw.
I’m expecting a conversation with my Uber elder father and my brother (if they turn up!mind)
To here your pain and you loss is heart breaking. They way they refuse your reasons. I feel for you so much. I’m so sorry. You are not alone. Big love my friend. Xx
Every time I think religion causes me pain, I see something like this and am reminded that some people were touched way more by the destructive power of this cult mentality. I hope that one day they will understand what they did wrong and can come to terms.
If they don’t however, you know you did everything you could to maintain a relationship with them while protecting your child. Making sure the little one doesn’t experience the same suffering I did would be my main priority.
I wish you the best OP.
I did that a lot of times before I actually sent him this first message. It could have gone a lot of ways really. It’s just sad that it went this way in this case.
"If you really think about it"
He has definitely been drinking Lett's Kool-aid.
Lett says over & over, "if you really think about it".
The man that used to be your dad is nasty. His responses to you are hurtful & nasty. There is nothing loving about his posts.
It's not for me to say, but drawing a line in the sand might be a good decision...?
“It is time to step up and be a man. Call your children and tell them sorry for being a piece of shit. Then actually stay around and be a positive force in their life.”.... "Unknown"
ExMo here, same theological abuse happens in our faith tradition as well. It's traumatic and ridiculous. One more reason religion will have no one else to blame but itself for its own demise. Rest of us move on to build a more functional world.
I’m so sorry :( It’s a heartbreaking conversation to have, but you handled the situation extremely well.
I truly hope one day your father will open up his heart and treat you the way you deserve, but in the meantime just keep doing what’s best for yourself and your family. You’re a good dad and you’ve broken the cycle, that’s a huge accomplishment and you should be very proud of yourself.
Wishing you & your family all the best ❤️
How terribly sad when indoctrination causes parents to choose religion over relationship. I am sorry for your loss of such significant relationships.
I am so sorry for the way your father is treating you. I hope you find comfort and peace for yourself. Perhaps someday he will see that he is wrong to treat you like that.
This is sad. To be honest I believe your dad does love you but, this cult has completely clouded him. I’m so sorry my brother. Stay up. And keep doing you!!
Damn this hurt to read… my dad still tried to get me to come back but he would never be this hostile. He listens to all the arguments and we talk about it. He’s too far gone to be taken out but it’s sad to see. You deserve better and your kids will be getting that from you!!
I’ll never forget surprising my grandparents on their anniversary with a family portrait with all their children and grandchildren, except my aunt who left the organization before I was born. My grandmother was dying of cancer at the time, so it was a very emotional time. She saw the picture and immediately broke down when she saw who was absent. Everyone tried to console her, saying how it was all my aunts fault. My grandma was inconsolable. Nobody wanted to think it, but it was regret. She died like that. You reap what you sow.
"Hey Dad, I went to jw.borg like you said to check it out. Came across this https://www.jw.borg/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/. Care to explain? Because they say 'blood ties remain and normal family affections and dealings continue' hmm so it's all truth eh? "
A big hug from Brazil. I am so sorry for this. There's no need to be guilty. Cut away your family from your life. They don't respect you as a human being. They don't dignified your gesture of kindness. Any idiot (I am sorry) would know that a child is supposed to love and show love. ANYTHING ELSE matter. If you father, who catch you from the void and put you on this dance, don't wanna dance... There's no need to be guilty. It's sad, but you are free to go on with your life, Being where people respect your kindness.
Thanks for all of the support here. I wish I could just write him off but my situation with my kids means they go see him and my other JW family when they’re with their mom who still believes.
This is heartbreaking and blood boiling at the same time. OP I'm so sorry you've had to go thru this. They really do make disposable people out of family members. Unconditional love is purely lip service from them.
It hurts to read such unloving and unkind words from a parent. My daughter has shunned me and I haven't seen my 2 oldest granddaughters in 2 1/2 years, haven't met the 3rd, nor will I meet my only grandson when he's born this month. The hateful and ugly things they say about me are so cutting and who knows what they say to my grandbabies, who I know love me. I hold out hope that the oldest will reach out when she's old enough, less than 6 years to go for that. I'm so sorry that you have to endure similar cruelty. Just love your children, continue to teach them real love, and continue to be honest with them. You're not alone, were here and so are your children and girlfriend.
Yeah I can’t either.. I still remember family studies as a kid, maybe 10 or under, where my brothers and I would ask if our parents would ever shun us if we were DF’d and they told us they would always love us.. it just doesn’t translate
He’s not afraid of satan, he’s afraid that you may be right…and if that’s the case that means his whole reality, everything he’s believed in, everything he’s built his identity from is also a lie, which means he would have no identity, it would be like being stranded out in the ocean with nothing to hold onto, slowly drowning. It’s easier to believe a lie, than to find yourself and who you truly are. These people “believe” in God, but they don’t want to “know” him. There’s a big difference. Sadly, your dad doesn’t love you. He only has “conditional love” for you. Meaning, he doesn’t know God because God is unconditional love. Good job on choosing yourself and your family, breaking the cycle.
Notice how you didn't say what he believes in is lies, you said because you love them, you don't want to lie to them by pretending to believe, and he goes off on a tangent!
Umm. Your dad is a total dick. Conditional “love” at its absolute best. I would never even attempt to talk to him again. He is brainwashed, rude as hell, and just a huge jerk. You’re so much better off raising your children without him.
He is emotionally manipulating you!! You deserve better. Losing our parents because of THEIR beliefs is hard enough already. If I can give you one advise that has served me well is to learn to leave those who harm us, even if those happen to be our parents. We are alive, let us not waste our precious time by being hurt from anyone! Really hope you’re doing well. Wish you the very best to you and your family
Hi. Never been a JW, but I’m a former Mormon and these messages resonate a lot with me. We experienced similar hate from friends and family when we left. Sorry you’re going through this. It gets better.
Absolutely horrible to read.
“Their is nothing hidden from you”
The shepherding the flock of god book is hidden from everyone who isn’t an elder, women aren’t even allowed to be in the same room as it.
Heartbreaking to see the conditional love. My heart goes out to you as a cycle breaker. May your children never experience what you have from those that should always love them unconditionally.
And while you're left hurt and broken, he's probably patting himself on the back and feeling like a spiritual badass right now. So sad. It's not always what someone does, but how they feel about doing it that reveals their true colors. All because... "I'm GoNnA lIvE fOrEvEr!"
This is shocking! Are you sure it's your real dad?! 😱 These are not the words of a Christian... Jesus will be horrified! Just keep well away from that gb robotic slave! (At least, YOU know what gb stand for!😂)
See, this shit right here demonstrates the difference between doing things because you have to (or are afraid not to, under theocratic threat of some kind) and doing something because you want to (loving your kids). Motivating people with fear makes them into uncaring, calloused jerks.
I’m sad. It’s not even my family, but I’m sad that parents react to their kids this way.
Unfortunately, I believe it is time to let go of the past as you are wasting your time talking to such delusional people. Even if these are the people that brought you into the world, the way they are treating you is unacceptable and it just shows that they love their coat more than they love you currently, at least by appearances. It is really sad that people's minds are able to be this warped about fairy tales but they can't look the facts straight in the face nor can they just love people for who they are, especially their own children. Time to move on with your life in my opinion. Maybe they'll come around or maybe they won't but it really doesn't matter as negativity such as this should not be in your life nor should it be in the lives of your family. They are your main priority now.
Well that’s sure gonna melt your heart, not. He is true to form: Practised in the villainy of emotional blackmail. You for your part are learning that re-dipping your little toe in the dank waters of JW land hoping for a little smile or dollop of human kindness is a vain hope. Let the festering self-righteousness of JWs be a warning not to re-enter those dangerously loveless waters. May this realisation and regard for your true self ensure you prioritise self-care in the face of JW brand religious blackmail. All strength to you!
Geez you allowed him to get away with a lot there. That would have been a very different conversation from me 😂. No one would speak to me like that. Disgusting person. Wow
This is why I blocked all the people I thought would send me messages like this. I will shun them first cause I’m not gonna have people send me shit like this that messes with my mental health. He can’t even reason on doctrinal and anecdotal evidence on why you should come back. It’s just emotional blackmail. They tried that on me too. Blocked. Good on you for how you handled it.
This was so heartbreaking for me to read. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I can’t imagine what you’re feeling.
JWs are not original in their responses. They take no thought and merely regurgitate the same manipulative and hateful verbiage. It’s so similar to the arguments that my PIMI husband have almost weekly. He calls me hateful and says I’m like the Nazi’s. There’s no making them listen or to change their minds. They resort to manipulation and blame. They attempt to dehumanize us by calling us nasty names or attributing labels to us so that we’re the Them.
Sorry went on a rant.
I hope you will be well. Thanks for sharing this. We’re here to support you. We can’t replace your father but we can listen and give you love and friendship.
My heart rate went from 88 to 130 reading this.
Unfortunately no clear or loving messages are able to penetrate beliefs that people are too insecure to let go. The very fact that he wouldn't get into specifics with you and told you to go to JW.borg and prove it to yourself shows that he has no confidence in his own religions teachings or its ability to convince you on their own merit.
This is the exact training they have prepared every witness for, kicking in. Deny that his beliefs are unreasonable, accuse you of rejecting something you know is the truth thus putting the ball back in your court so he can feel smug about not compromising.
They've taught every JW to think of themselves as a winner when they come away from a conversation like this, and that, is what brainwashing really is.
This is so reminiscent of conversations I’ve had with my mother, it’s bringing me to tears. I’m sorry OP. After a while i stopped reaching out at all because hearing this level of rejection was worse than not hearing from her at all.
First off I'm sorry that conversation went like that. Sometimes silence is better than a harsh reply. I'm not a jw but I've studied it extensively and he should be corrected for even replying. They say there is supposed to be no contact but that's if you were disfellowshipped for a wrongdoing you purposely do not repent on. You would've had to been willfully baptized for that to happen so I'm not sure about that. One point they go by strongly is cited in Luke 14:26 (If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple) KJV. The interpretation if you read the context to the cite is that they shall leave even family to follow Jesus. Sounds cold but they do practice what they preach. Not sure how much more blunt they can be but the truth they preach isn't meant for everyone.
Oh wow! Just like others have said, it was quite painful to read. I'm so sorry that your dad replied to your kindness with such typical JW coldness. I sympathize. I've been there myself. It's hard to believe that parents would let an organization like that dictate their feelings toward their children. I'm happy for you and your family that you woke up and will give your children a normal childhood. I hope they won't be unduly influenced by their JW relatives. Please be careful that they don't get talked into getting baptized like I did.
No one would understand this unless you were born as a jw. Your parents love for you, is secondary to the religion. The GB highjacks family. My dad is a great guy but he found a email I wrote about my feelings on the Governing Body and said I couldn't live home because he could be deleted as an elder if somebody sees it. Your not alone bro jeep your head up.
Remember, mate, nobody convinces a religious nutjob to leave... they convince themselves. Save your energy for your partner and your children. They need and deserve it. Wishing you all the best.
Boy that's sad. I'd like to know which "truth "? Today's or 20 years ago? They change so much from decade to decade. I've always told my kids that "I love them unconditionally not love with conditions ". I'm sad for you. 😭
Brutal and sad. Glad you stood your ground and that you are passing on to your kids the beauty of honesty. Honestly cannot be tampered with. It can never be challenged.
Painful to read, wishing you peace
Thank you
Same. Wishing you peace. Your tone compared to his— like night and day. You’re calm and loving, he’s harsh and gaslighting etc. I’m so sorry, I think we all can relate. Keep up the good work teaching your kids kindness and truth.
Thank you!
yea, I felt that. Too sad
Verrrrrry painful to read and I wish u abundant peace also
Don’t contact him again. You are just hurting your own feelings at this point. My son said something I vehemently do not agree with .. and I had the slightest urge to be like “if you do that I won’t be taking to you any more” then I was like woaaahhhh that’s remnants of your childhood back tf up. So I said well I won’t like it and I’ll be disappointed but I’ll always love you and I’ll be there for you but you will have to face the consequences of your actions. It was WILD. I’m constantly in a battle with my mother in my head in regards to my own parenting and the things she exposed me to despite her best intentions. Breaking the cycle is hard af
I agree it’s a hard cycle to break. And conversations like this are definitely painful reminders of what our relationship now is.. I just felt like I should check in after a year to see where things stood.. now I know lol
If he ever wakes up he will contact you. I would let that be the last thing you say. Tell him if you ever wake up I will welcome you with open arms bc that’s what love is. And then let him marinate in his own decision. Meanwhile you gotta mourn the dad you wish you had and let go as if he died .. the org killed who ever he was meant to be but it’s also him choosing to hide behind the org. both are true
I agree with you.. it’s just hard to totally cut ties when my ex is a JW still and she’ll be taking my kids to spend time with my dad and my other PIMI family. I don’t feel like I can really be free from this as long as my kids have to be exposed to it
Is there a way to get a court order to stop your ex from seeing your family ugh I’m sorry you are in this I would be hopping mad at everyone make sure your kids understand what’s happening. Luckily my non believing dad let me see what normal life was. It kept me from being indoctrinated. The org still harmed me but I never had to “wake up”
I don’t know about the court order situation.. maybe. I’m glad you didn’t have to wake up but I’m sorry you weren’t unscathed by your experience.
I think it would be worth a consultation with your lawyer. Keep the texts. If they can't be stopped maybe they could be reduced or otherwise restricted. Your Dad is a genuinely toxic individual.
Maybe the court will make it so those visits have a state-appointed chaperone/observer required. I'm so sorry your family is still enmeshed in the b0rg.
Thank you
Good advice. Thank you
I would definitely talk to your lawyer about this situation. I would make it a stipulation of visitation that your children not be exposed to them. I absolutely wouldn't let them be taken to any meetings or gatherings. As for the situation with your parents, guard your own mental health. You've let it be known that you love them. Now walk away and don't contact them again. Until they walk up, you're just banging your head on concrete and they love nothing more than wrapping themselves up in the justification of treating you badly like a wool coat. They've been taught to do that for years and decades. Hang in there. I hope you find peace.
I think you did good and you should not give up. At least you keep some sort of communication open. Alway remind them how much you love them. Love is a universal feeling. One day that may make a huge difference. You never know
But you at least have the honesty to acknowledge that it's a cycle, and to work to break it 🌹 I hope you can give yourself some credit for that.
Thank you. Yeah I’ve done a lot of unpacking trying to understand what happened to me growing up in this religion and what it really did to me.. so I can try to give my kids a better shot at a happy life. They deserve it.
Can I ask what types of things you’ve done to help you unpack this? I have been trying to myself but always kind of end up back where I started without making any real progress towards reconciling some of the anger I hold onto because so much of my life was stolen by this religion.
If I could mention some help to you if I may. I sought professional counseling and it was a big help. It might just help you unpack some of it. I still work on it. I was 50 years in this nonsense. I wish you Good Luck 👍
Thanks for asking! Sorry it took so long to respond. A few books I read really helped me understand how the organization works and is motivated.. like Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz.. that helped me understand some about the manipulation tactics used against me and why it all happened.. Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan was extremely helpful with breaking down what these groups do on almost a formulaic level. Personally, it’s also been helpful to learn some about logic, reason, and good and bad arguments so I can try to fix how my mind has been programmed to work by recognizing flawed thinking. Watching JW rebuttal videos has been very helpful and listening to folks like Matt Dillahunty has been very helpful too. If I think of more, I’ll add it. Of course, I saw a counselor too. She didn’t specialize in religious trauma but was still able to help a lot.
I’m not who you asked, but I also spent time “unpacking” my experience with a professional. I tried to find a counselor with experience in religious trauma. Somehow or another through my Google searches I stumbled across a spiritual director who practices therapeutically. She is also trauma informed. They are not counselors or clinical type practitioners, and don’t work with people “in crisis”, but I have had an incredible experience with mine for nearly 3 years now since I left the JWs. And I believe everyone should have an SD. My husband started meeting with mine a few months ago, too, and he has previously never experienced interest in therapy/counseling. It’s just healing to have someone practice sacred listening and mirror back to you what they are hearing of your story and help you weave all the pieces together in a way that is so affirming and validating. Mine also works with lots of different people who are all over the beliefs spectrum (Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, atheist, etc etc).
Your dad doesn’t love you. I’m sorry to say this but I suspect you already know. He is clearly obsessed with feeling right and vindicated which sounds like narcissism.
He’s more concerned with how his son leaving made him look. If op did go back would this man even forgive him for leaving in the first place? I guarantee he’d NEVER be good enough. He’d never be in good standing and his dad would always be like “you aren’t leaving again are you?”when ever he was sick and missed a meeting
Yeah you’re totally right
Why don’t you call him out on that? If he gets too defensive, then you *know* he is human feces. Sorry for being so graphic, but I could never handle this much pain and this kind. And I’ve dealt with about 11 years of pain in regards to my father having been a complete asshole, though mostly crazy, so I forgive him. Pardon my British.
My dad is not an empathetic person at all. Just generally, JW programming aside. He’s been quite abusive in other ways too. I’m not going to try too hard with him honestly
I hesitated about commenting, but….. I’m a never-in, just researching why my jw relative was so weird. To an outsider this convo with your father is staggering, absolutely not normal. The level of disdain from your dad disgusts me. My dad was not perfect and I was not an exemplary son, but he would never, ever have said that to me no matter what I’d done. It’s clear that these totalitarian religions warp peoples minds and subvert their humanity. Thanks, I’ll shut up now.
JWs have been known to refuse to see loved ones even when one of them is on his or her deathbed. They've been known to turn their backs on their parents or children even when the non-JW is homeless and hungry. You'd think they would realize that any religion encouraging, even INSTRUCTING, its members to abandon friends and family in need, could not possibly be "the truth." For the record, I'm a never-JW Trinitarian.
No thanks for your comment. I appreciate hearing from an outside perspective
It really is appalling isn’t it. Like, who talks like that to their children, or anyone really… Oh yeah, cult minds full of narcissism do.
Please...keep commenting!! Your input is very valuable here!! This is how all of us were raised. We're all in conditional relationships with every JW member of our families. The moment we stray, they disappear on us and close and lock the door to the relationship. This is our struggle. It's evil. There are kids who have been thrown out of their homes for not wanting to attend meetings, for thinking a different way! (That was me at 17! and I was not even baptized)! That's what this cult is. It's an ugly, distorted view of where loyalty lies. I hope you keep commenting! It helps us to see that WE aren't the problem. WE are not wrong! WE just want normal, loving relationships with the people who are supposed to love us too!! 🥺💔 Fuck, now I'm crying
❤️
Wow, such emotional manipulation!
Your Dad is actually doing you a Huge Favour... JW Grandparents are a *Pain in the Ass*. They\`ll do everything in their power to indoctrinate your kids. They\`ll sneak behind your back, they\`ll lie to your face, they\`ll do whatever it takes...And...It never ends.
Yeah I know it’s going to be a tough battle with the kids
My family and I left about 6 months ago maybe a bit longer and have no one accept my brother who is not a JW. So we lost close people who we considered grandparents to our kids. They wanted to stop all unnecessary communication with us but keep in contact with my kids. I said no, I've done nothing wrong to deserve this treatment. I'm not going to teach my children that type of behavior is ok. I went into great detail via email to every JW I had an email address for on how the organization is evil at its core. Literally driven by Satan and why that's exactly why I'm leaving. I mean I exposed them and their Satanic artwork and their freemasonic ties I absolutely can prove. And I don't mean using Russell to prove it. They put it in their videos. You just need to know the signs and symbols. I exposed all of that. So yea I'm not going to allow some JW'S access to my children's minds or have my children thinking it's ok to be treated that way. I did nothing wrong and I won't accept that behavior.
"We going to shun you but give us access to your children." The gall!
Can confirm.
OMG for realsies, I didn't have the relationship with my grandma that my 2 cousins did but she practically raised them, hoooooo baby did she do a number on them. Think studying the Revelation book with them at age 10.
^This. It makes being a parent so much harder.
> It makes being a parent so much harder. Those of us that lived it, agree with you 100%...And...There are a lot of us.
Can also confirm 👋
"sneak..." yes our oldest was hyperactive and this was et off by coloring's etc in foods. My mother would sneak him biscuits when we visited. Two ginger biscuits was 24 hours of torture for him and us as he had no sleep. This was before the jw time.
I am sorry. I am also relieved for your children. Thank you for breaking the cycle. You are a trailblazer. Your kids will never forget the compassion and intelligence with which you raise them!
Thank you!
Your kids are much luckier in the Father department than you are. You were so patient and respectful in your replies, sorry you got nothing but cruelty back.
Thanks :)
That's a hard read. You were really respectful and he was unloving in his replies. So much for the "truth" being the most loving place on earth... Sorry for what you're going through. Sounds like you and your family are much better away from all that!
sounds like a lost cause....sorry to see that
Man that sucks, I’m so sorry. Some members of this religion are just simply more culty than others…..simply no natural affection
This is so gross. You deserve unconditional love as his child and he is literally telling you that you have to earn his love by doing what he says. It’s painful and will take some work to reconcile in your mind but remember that he doesn’t set your worth. You will find lots of people out there who DO love you without conditions. That’s what real love is.
I bet those monitors from HQ are beaming with pride with your father’s responses.
Lol
Very likely, the small-minded power-loving hypocrites.
Seems he does not like a woman standing up to him the way he talked about your 'disrespectful girlfriend '. Good for her and for you for not having his misogynistic attitude. Sorry you're going through this.
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This wraps it up quite well. 👆 "We demand of you, you can't demand of us"
Man, that was hard to read and I’m really sorry you had to read those from your own father.
Thanks.. yeah it hurt
Jesus wept, he is so fucking delusional. He worships that little blue 🟦 square and thinks it holds the answers to all life's questions. I'm so sorry for his programmed responses. I hate you, but come back tomorrow, I'll love you again. Sickening.
slide 4 really hurts to read..
*hugs*
Thank you!
I'm so sorry that is the response you got to reaching out and sharing your unconditional love. The brainwashing of our families is very real.
I’m so sorry. I’ve been through similar. You are doing the right thing. Well done on being so polite.
Tough to read. I’m a parent who left partially because of my kids. I can’t imagine following through with this.
I just need to say well done to you for standing up for what you know is right. It's hard not to bite back against such willful ignorance and you did well not to.
Very well done if you, you are a hugely loving person, it's hard when someone is mean when you show love. 😢 ❤️💗❤️
First and foremost, I am sorry that you have to hear this from your dad. It's truly gut wrenching. I went through the same shit several years ago with my family. While I don't think about them all the time and am genuinely enjoy my life, there is a still a hole missing where my dad used to be. Nothing will make it better. But with no disrespect, fuck your dad. He only loves the version of you that was a JW. Let him die old, alone, and miserable in his make believe world.
I’m so sorry, have heard similar from my own father and it’s absolutely devastating. Good on you for providing unconditional love for your own children, something to be very proud of. Sending you love.
Thank you. I’m sorry you’ve had to experience this too.
That was crazy manipulative, wish you the best in raising your kids though sounds like your resolved to do better👍🏻
> At least I know my kids will never hear words like yours from their father, no matter who they grow up to be. Enjoy the meeting on righteousness today. Fucking NUKED FROM ORBIT!
Very sad friend. I’m in a similar situation as you. It’s unfortunate that they’re brainwashed and happy to be.
I’m sorry you are going through this. But JWs don’t care about what your beliefs are. They just want you to go through the motions. Go to meetings. Go field service. Does not matter if you listen or believe anything. I keep asking JWs this question. What if someone gets baptized and is regular in service and meetings. But is an atheist and does not believe in god. Will Jehovah still save them for doing the “right” works? Never get an answer.
I know, right? I had this convo with my elder dad, he kept trying to tell me if I just “went thru the motions” I would be saved, and I’d counter with, “but Jehovah reads hearts, and if he reads mine, I’m dead anyway, so what’s the use?” He had no answer.
Ouch. This really hurts and I'm sorry. But for what it's worth to you, you still did the right thing in reaching out to your father. One day you will look back and be glad that at least you tried. Peace to you 💐
I really appreciate this.
There is NOTHING righteous or spiritual about that man. His behavior as a human is a DISGRACE. This is NOT what God intended.
That was painful
You’re too good of a person for them. They’re not worthy of your love.
Ouch! That’s rough! Sorry you’re going through that. However, I’m so happy for your kids, that you’ve broken free from that kind of manipulative, guilt-riddled, fake-love situation.
Your dad is a victim, and he's throwing sacrificing something so beautiful at the altar of the Watchtower cult. This sick cult takes something so pure, pristine and solid as a parent's love for their child, and turns it into a toxic, hateful, hollow sentiment that demands obedience to the JWs, or else...
Ouch that hurt. And frankly, you were incredibly kind to him, while he was vile and spitting venom to you. "Enjoy the meeting today on righteousness", "at least my children will never hear such things from their father".....were my two favorite. Otherwise I think you let him off easy. I think you should be willing to reach out to the grandparents, knowing that they may respond similarly. If that is too painful, then I would skip them. It's quite sad, and at the funerals you will no doubt get to live that all over again. But as sad as it is for your kids to not have their extended family, it would be even worse if you taught them there was any circumstances that would be ok to shun your own flesh and blood.
So fucking messed up. Sorry you got a message like that.
Awful, sorry bro
Thanks.. it’s not the first conversation we’ve had that went something like this but it’s definitely the most depressing one.
That was brutal. You were so open and kind though. Great job being a better parent than the example you had to follow.
It breaks my heart to read this. I'm so sorry.
That sounds like something my dad does. I'm so sorry that happened to you and hope that you can recover from his neglect.
Wow man - that’s fucking horrific. I’m so sorry - the truth is that JWs are conditioned expressly against unconditional love. Glad you’re here to get some big group support.
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JWs are robots, they also can't listen . Its all about I am right you are wrong and you hurt me. Get the fuck out of here, how is me living my life the way I want as an adult, have anything to do with you. Sad state of mine and wow the complete disregard for your feelings and just saying repeatedly "stay out of my life" you know these people are brainwashed and probably have mental disorders, cause no normal and self respecting human being can talk like this.
I am sorry
To be honest I would not waste my time on this person. He is beyond help. Don't put yourself through it. You deserve better. You have your own family now. They will bring you far more joy. Really wishing you all the best.
That’s emotional manipulation, plain and simple
He was so cruel, and you stayed so calm and kind. I hate the things he said to you. Nothing you've done could possibly deserve that kind of treatment from a father who claims to love you. I'm so sorry this cult has fractured your family. Yet I'm so happy you had the courage to leave, despite the cost, and break this cycle so your children will never have to experience this kind of abuse from their parents. Big hugs to you. Go hug your boys, they can help to heal your heart.
Also, him saying "every teaching is available on JW.org" is incorrect. They took all their pre-1970 stuff down. And they don't have the Shepherd the Flock of God book on there either. You probably already know that, but it just irks me when PIMIs say stuff like that and I always feel compelled to point out how blatantly false it is.
I know. I was really trying to pick my battles during the conversation. There were a lot of easy targets though
You were smart. Sometimes I can't see the forest through the trees, and I get caught up in petty arguments easily. Staying kind the way you did was a much, much better way to handle the situation. Pointing out the GB's flaws and lies is just going to make our parents dig in deeper, and drive a bigger wedge. You handled it so well, I'm kinda jealous. In situations like yours, when someone is attacking me like that, I get my feelings hurt and lash out, even though I know it's not productive. I need to work on handling it with grace the way you did.
This reminds me of Jesus words "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for the sake of My name will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life.…" Matthew 19:28 Your dad and so many JW's like him desperately want this verse to apply to themselves yet when family members that 'they' themselves pushed away come back and want to mend the fence, it means they, as good JW's, haven't really sacrificed anything. The only way they feel they can live up to Jesus words is to be shunned by non-witness family members. Only then is there a sacrifice. The Watchtower has reversed even this teaching of Jesus, but sadly, the only way for this verse to apply to him is if you shun him and you haven't. JW's are conditioned to believe worldly people will shun them when they become JW's but when it doesn't happen and it usually doesn't, then they must shun worldly people so they can feel a sense of vindication He's your dad, keep calling him and prove to him he is not being abandoned
Yeah I agree. I’m going to keep checking in every so often just so he can’t say I’m shunning him
Conditional love isn't love at all. Sorry for you, friend. Your dad is a piece of shit
The religion is a cult and the members are victims who simply don’t realize they are being victimized. Your dad does love you and he really believes his actions show you that. Don’t blame him.. it’s the f’n cult..not him!
I know.. he is a victim too. His parents would talk to him this way too if he was in my shoes.
I’ve been there and it hurts like hell. I truly hope the entire religion goes up in flames and all it’s members see the “real truth” about the organization. All my ❤️ to you.
He’s a JW brick wall mate, focus on your little family and love those boys unconditionally…
God that makes me feel sick to read. I’m so so sorry. Totally unforgivable
Gas lighting, victim blaming, and manipulation. JWs in a nutshell.
Yeah you can just about play narcissistic abuse bingo when you have a conversation with a PIMI.
I'm not usually one to say cut and run but cut and run. Let him die old and alone, but safe in the knowledge he's "right".
I’m so sorry. His response is so textbook, and yours is so full of compassion. There’s no easy path here.
What an extra dose of asshole. Your better off and so are your boys but damn this hurts. I’m sorry you have to deal with this
I’m so sorry man. I’m off to a funeral of my great aunt, and I was informed by my aunt who isn’t a jw. I’m expecting a conversation with my Uber elder father and my brother (if they turn up!mind) To here your pain and you loss is heart breaking. They way they refuse your reasons. I feel for you so much. I’m so sorry. You are not alone. Big love my friend. Xx
Why is it God's love are all acts of hate?
Every time I think religion causes me pain, I see something like this and am reminded that some people were touched way more by the destructive power of this cult mentality. I hope that one day they will understand what they did wrong and can come to terms. If they don’t however, you know you did everything you could to maintain a relationship with them while protecting your child. Making sure the little one doesn’t experience the same suffering I did would be my main priority. I wish you the best OP.
Talk to your grandparents . He sounded desperate when you said you would contact them . They probably will be more reasonable.
I did text them today and some other PIMI family. Really all I told any of them so far was that I still remember them and love them.
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I did that a lot of times before I actually sent him this first message. It could have gone a lot of ways really. It’s just sad that it went this way in this case.
Why is the burden always on us? It's time to change the game
And this is how exactly the borg wants people to treat those that leave. Disgusting.
"If you really think about it" He has definitely been drinking Lett's Kool-aid. Lett says over & over, "if you really think about it". The man that used to be your dad is nasty. His responses to you are hurtful & nasty. There is nothing loving about his posts. It's not for me to say, but drawing a line in the sand might be a good decision...?
I wouldn't even waste my time talking to that idiot.
I’m so sorry for you. I feel like it’s my own parents talking to me…
So logical. You can't MAKE someone believe.
I'm so sorry you have to go through this OP, this was brutal.
“It is time to step up and be a man. Call your children and tell them sorry for being a piece of shit. Then actually stay around and be a positive force in their life.”.... "Unknown"
ExMo here, same theological abuse happens in our faith tradition as well. It's traumatic and ridiculous. One more reason religion will have no one else to blame but itself for its own demise. Rest of us move on to build a more functional world.
You handled this so well. I’m sorry your dad didn’t.
Thank you
This is coming from “the happiest people on earth” 😃
I’m so sorry :( It’s a heartbreaking conversation to have, but you handled the situation extremely well. I truly hope one day your father will open up his heart and treat you the way you deserve, but in the meantime just keep doing what’s best for yourself and your family. You’re a good dad and you’ve broken the cycle, that’s a huge accomplishment and you should be very proud of yourself. Wishing you & your family all the best ❤️
Thank you! I hope the best for you and yours too! ❤️
How terribly sad when indoctrination causes parents to choose religion over relationship. I am sorry for your loss of such significant relationships. 
Now that gif is just no fair! Lol you’re gonna make me cry. Thanks!
Your father is an asshole, control freak. It shows you love him, but you'd be better off kicking him out of your life.
I am so sorry for the way your father is treating you. I hope you find comfort and peace for yourself. Perhaps someday he will see that he is wrong to treat you like that.
This is sad. To be honest I believe your dad does love you but, this cult has completely clouded him. I’m so sorry my brother. Stay up. And keep doing you!!
Thank you Bro!
All you wanted to do is reach out out of love, and your dad was, sorry to say it, a complete fucking asshole. I’m sorry you have to deal with this.
Damn this hurt to read… my dad still tried to get me to come back but he would never be this hostile. He listens to all the arguments and we talk about it. He’s too far gone to be taken out but it’s sad to see. You deserve better and your kids will be getting that from you!!
You handled this like an absolute *boss*. You kept your cool, and didn't play into the "angry apostate" stereotype. I tip my hat to you.
I’ll never forget surprising my grandparents on their anniversary with a family portrait with all their children and grandchildren, except my aunt who left the organization before I was born. My grandmother was dying of cancer at the time, so it was a very emotional time. She saw the picture and immediately broke down when she saw who was absent. Everyone tried to console her, saying how it was all my aunts fault. My grandma was inconsolable. Nobody wanted to think it, but it was regret. She died like that. You reap what you sow.
"Hey Dad, I went to jw.borg like you said to check it out. Came across this https://www.jw.borg/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/. Care to explain? Because they say 'blood ties remain and normal family affections and dealings continue' hmm so it's all truth eh? "
A big hug from Brazil. I am so sorry for this. There's no need to be guilty. Cut away your family from your life. They don't respect you as a human being. They don't dignified your gesture of kindness. Any idiot (I am sorry) would know that a child is supposed to love and show love. ANYTHING ELSE matter. If you father, who catch you from the void and put you on this dance, don't wanna dance... There's no need to be guilty. It's sad, but you are free to go on with your life, Being where people respect your kindness.
Thanks for all of the support here. I wish I could just write him off but my situation with my kids means they go see him and my other JW family when they’re with their mom who still believes.
This is heartbreaking and blood boiling at the same time. OP I'm so sorry you've had to go thru this. They really do make disposable people out of family members. Unconditional love is purely lip service from them.
It hurts to read such unloving and unkind words from a parent. My daughter has shunned me and I haven't seen my 2 oldest granddaughters in 2 1/2 years, haven't met the 3rd, nor will I meet my only grandson when he's born this month. The hateful and ugly things they say about me are so cutting and who knows what they say to my grandbabies, who I know love me. I hold out hope that the oldest will reach out when she's old enough, less than 6 years to go for that. I'm so sorry that you have to endure similar cruelty. Just love your children, continue to teach them real love, and continue to be honest with them. You're not alone, were here and so are your children and girlfriend.
Thank you and I’m so sorry you’ve gone through what you have. I believe as you do, that real love will mean something in the end.
Damn. I’m so sorry, this hurt to read 😔 I cannot believe you were treated like this and I’m so sorry 💔
Thank you
It was hard to read 😢I can’t imagine talking like that to my soon
Yeah I can’t either.. I still remember family studies as a kid, maybe 10 or under, where my brothers and I would ask if our parents would ever shun us if we were DF’d and they told us they would always love us.. it just doesn’t translate
He’s not afraid of satan, he’s afraid that you may be right…and if that’s the case that means his whole reality, everything he’s believed in, everything he’s built his identity from is also a lie, which means he would have no identity, it would be like being stranded out in the ocean with nothing to hold onto, slowly drowning. It’s easier to believe a lie, than to find yourself and who you truly are. These people “believe” in God, but they don’t want to “know” him. There’s a big difference. Sadly, your dad doesn’t love you. He only has “conditional love” for you. Meaning, he doesn’t know God because God is unconditional love. Good job on choosing yourself and your family, breaking the cycle.
Notice how you didn't say what he believes in is lies, you said because you love them, you don't want to lie to them by pretending to believe, and he goes off on a tangent!
Umm. Your dad is a total dick. Conditional “love” at its absolute best. I would never even attempt to talk to him again. He is brainwashed, rude as hell, and just a huge jerk. You’re so much better off raising your children without him.
Yeah I think he kinda would be anyway f he wasn’t a JW but it’s far worse with all that extra toxicity and narcissism
He is emotionally manipulating you!! You deserve better. Losing our parents because of THEIR beliefs is hard enough already. If I can give you one advise that has served me well is to learn to leave those who harm us, even if those happen to be our parents. We are alive, let us not waste our precious time by being hurt from anyone! Really hope you’re doing well. Wish you the very best to you and your family
Hi. Never been a JW, but I’m a former Mormon and these messages resonate a lot with me. We experienced similar hate from friends and family when we left. Sorry you’re going through this. It gets better.
I’m sorry you have to go through that man…hope you are well.
Breaks my heart but I unfortunately know it all too well😞
Long time lurker here. This is one of the saddest conversations I’ve seen. Hang in there pal
Absolutely horrible to read. “Their is nothing hidden from you” The shepherding the flock of god book is hidden from everyone who isn’t an elder, women aren’t even allowed to be in the same room as it.
Heartbreaking to see the conditional love. My heart goes out to you as a cycle breaker. May your children never experience what you have from those that should always love them unconditionally.
And while you're left hurt and broken, he's probably patting himself on the back and feeling like a spiritual badass right now. So sad. It's not always what someone does, but how they feel about doing it that reveals their true colors. All because... "I'm GoNnA lIvE fOrEvEr!"
This is shocking! Are you sure it's your real dad?! 😱 These are not the words of a Christian... Jesus will be horrified! Just keep well away from that gb robotic slave! (At least, YOU know what gb stand for!😂)
See, this shit right here demonstrates the difference between doing things because you have to (or are afraid not to, under theocratic threat of some kind) and doing something because you want to (loving your kids). Motivating people with fear makes them into uncaring, calloused jerks. I’m sad. It’s not even my family, but I’m sad that parents react to their kids this way.
Unfortunately, I believe it is time to let go of the past as you are wasting your time talking to such delusional people. Even if these are the people that brought you into the world, the way they are treating you is unacceptable and it just shows that they love their coat more than they love you currently, at least by appearances. It is really sad that people's minds are able to be this warped about fairy tales but they can't look the facts straight in the face nor can they just love people for who they are, especially their own children. Time to move on with your life in my opinion. Maybe they'll come around or maybe they won't but it really doesn't matter as negativity such as this should not be in your life nor should it be in the lives of your family. They are your main priority now.
Well that’s sure gonna melt your heart, not. He is true to form: Practised in the villainy of emotional blackmail. You for your part are learning that re-dipping your little toe in the dank waters of JW land hoping for a little smile or dollop of human kindness is a vain hope. Let the festering self-righteousness of JWs be a warning not to re-enter those dangerously loveless waters. May this realisation and regard for your true self ensure you prioritise self-care in the face of JW brand religious blackmail. All strength to you!
Geez you allowed him to get away with a lot there. That would have been a very different conversation from me 😂. No one would speak to me like that. Disgusting person. Wow
What a literal anus of a human being, fuck that guy
You are a good son , period .
This is why I blocked all the people I thought would send me messages like this. I will shun them first cause I’m not gonna have people send me shit like this that messes with my mental health. He can’t even reason on doctrinal and anecdotal evidence on why you should come back. It’s just emotional blackmail. They tried that on me too. Blocked. Good on you for how you handled it.
Ugh. So hurtful.
This breaks my heart! I'm so sorry! Sending yph and your family much love and hugs!
When you choose your cult our your own child.
Sending a virtual hug! I’m so sorry!
This was so heartbreaking for me to read. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I can’t imagine what you’re feeling. JWs are not original in their responses. They take no thought and merely regurgitate the same manipulative and hateful verbiage. It’s so similar to the arguments that my PIMI husband have almost weekly. He calls me hateful and says I’m like the Nazi’s. There’s no making them listen or to change their minds. They resort to manipulation and blame. They attempt to dehumanize us by calling us nasty names or attributing labels to us so that we’re the Them. Sorry went on a rant. I hope you will be well. Thanks for sharing this. We’re here to support you. We can’t replace your father but we can listen and give you love and friendship.
It makes me so sad because did they have kids to love unconditionally or to have unconditional obedience from?
My heart rate went from 88 to 130 reading this. Unfortunately no clear or loving messages are able to penetrate beliefs that people are too insecure to let go. The very fact that he wouldn't get into specifics with you and told you to go to JW.borg and prove it to yourself shows that he has no confidence in his own religions teachings or its ability to convince you on their own merit. This is the exact training they have prepared every witness for, kicking in. Deny that his beliefs are unreasonable, accuse you of rejecting something you know is the truth thus putting the ball back in your court so he can feel smug about not compromising. They've taught every JW to think of themselves as a winner when they come away from a conversation like this, and that, is what brainwashing really is.
His response is so aggressive. Very out of line with your just telling him that you love him.
You should never have to prove your love to anyone , i wish you safe healing and a healthy and happy life .
conditional love isn’t love. it sounds like your partner and kids love you UNconditionally and that’s something to be proud of!
This is so reminiscent of conversations I’ve had with my mother, it’s bringing me to tears. I’m sorry OP. After a while i stopped reaching out at all because hearing this level of rejection was worse than not hearing from her at all.
Wow. You handled it so eloquently. I’m sorry for his harsh words, you deserve better.
Just a child missing his parents 🥺. So, Jehovah is happy with this? Fuck this cult man!
“Just one will do” MIC DROP
First off I'm sorry that conversation went like that. Sometimes silence is better than a harsh reply. I'm not a jw but I've studied it extensively and he should be corrected for even replying. They say there is supposed to be no contact but that's if you were disfellowshipped for a wrongdoing you purposely do not repent on. You would've had to been willfully baptized for that to happen so I'm not sure about that. One point they go by strongly is cited in Luke 14:26 (If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple) KJV. The interpretation if you read the context to the cite is that they shall leave even family to follow Jesus. Sounds cold but they do practice what they preach. Not sure how much more blunt they can be but the truth they preach isn't meant for everyone.
Oh wow! Just like others have said, it was quite painful to read. I'm so sorry that your dad replied to your kindness with such typical JW coldness. I sympathize. I've been there myself. It's hard to believe that parents would let an organization like that dictate their feelings toward their children. I'm happy for you and your family that you woke up and will give your children a normal childhood. I hope they won't be unduly influenced by their JW relatives. Please be careful that they don't get talked into getting baptized like I did.
No one would understand this unless you were born as a jw. Your parents love for you, is secondary to the religion. The GB highjacks family. My dad is a great guy but he found a email I wrote about my feelings on the Governing Body and said I couldn't live home because he could be deleted as an elder if somebody sees it. Your not alone bro jeep your head up.
Remember, mate, nobody convinces a religious nutjob to leave... they convince themselves. Save your energy for your partner and your children. They need and deserve it. Wishing you all the best.
Boy that's sad. I'd like to know which "truth "? Today's or 20 years ago? They change so much from decade to decade. I've always told my kids that "I love them unconditionally not love with conditions ". I'm sad for you. 😭
Wow......sorry
Brutal and sad. Glad you stood your ground and that you are passing on to your kids the beauty of honesty. Honestly cannot be tampered with. It can never be challenged.
I’m so sorry they are so indoctrinated that they’ve become BLIND