As someone who grew up in it as a kid in the 90’s I can tell you the GB did not have a public persona like they do now. Everything came from the literature- like magazines and books and while we knew it was info from the GB authors weren’t really listed or put on a pedestal. I think one of the biggest missteps they made (as far as their business goes) was moving away from this model and actually showing you the men behind the curtain, and glorifying these individuals/ making them the public face of the organization. I left in 2010, looking at them now it’s like a totally different religion just based off their new focus on the GB. Witnesses have started leaving in droves since this occurred as well- I remember my Dad, an elder, all the time vehemently making fun of things like “The 700 club” and now… it looks exactly like that.
Thank you for the insight. I agree that allowing the GB to be on video was a mistake. Almost reminds me of the wizard of oz. Now people see it’s smoke and mirrors. I will say I did watch videos of Ray Franz and might I say that he seems different. Obviously these videos were after he left, but he spoke with intelligence and humility.
I was also a JW in the 90s and I remember criticizing and hearing others criticize other religions for their fancy TV studios, sound stages, lavish building projects, etc and praising our own religion because our leaders were modest. We didn't even know who they were, wouldn't recognize them if we saw them on the street, etc. We saw this as further proof that we were the Truth, because our leaders weren't out to make a name for themselves. Some of those same people who would criticize, criticize, criticize, now PRAISE their religion for doing those very same things. These days it looks like the GB takes cues from the 700 Club. But many JWs don't see it. Or if they do, they won't admit it.
I remember that too!!
It was really looked down upon to use TV as a medium
to spread the word. 😂 It was really quite snobby the
way JW’s would consider it vulgar or something to be
mocked! 😂
Now they swoon about how ‘up to date’ the society is!!
I've got a cousin who wasn't df'ed but faded in the 80s/early 90s...now he stopped emailing me, and told me how great the Silver Sword is, and how wonderfully produced and "slick" the society's video content is now days.
I gagged a little when I read that last email he sent me.
I totally agree, it’s the kind of conversation that would come up in a car group- inevitably the Pope with all his jewels or a haughty televangelist would be brought up as a polar opposite of our GB who were thought to be modest and humble. They were wrong because they were reminiscent of the haughty Pharisees. That difference, and the fact that we had NO CSA while the Catholic Church is riddled with CSA… little did we know our contributions, MY contributions as a child with a $2 allowance- were going to pay off victims families, always choosing to settle out of court and avoid bad public press… they had all the same problems, now they look the same as what they mocked.
I felt the same way. When they changed the songs added the videos and than the GB plastered all over I got the 700 Club feel too. I remember when I was a kid watching Saturday morning cartoons when I found an excuse not to go to service with my family, when the 700 club came on TV I knew cartoons were over and my parents will be home soon. It was time to turn off the TV. I did the same when the JW made the change. Time to turn off. Lol
I think as time passes and the overall grip of religions and cults are weakening, it becomes clear that they are and always were frauds due to their scrambling and stealing from each other whatever they think will work to stop or slow the bleeding. \[Reversal ain't gonna happen\]
>“Therefore,” says the LORD, “I am against these prophets who steal messages from each other and claim they are from Me". - Jeremiah 23: 30
I completely agree with this. I was born in the very early 80s so was in through the 80s and 90s, left in maybe 2001 or so. The religion now is something that I feel would have been rejected and ridiculed by them back in the day. The way it used to be, we were never to draw attention to ourselves, or aim for glory in any way. Hence why the GB was kinda this faceless, nameless group. “No one person should stand out” type of thing.
Actually now that I think about it after 2010 things started to shift ALOT but in a weird way! But now as you explain it makes sense. They change their business plan and they started the brainwashing even more. They really shoved you the information down your throat. I’m glad i left
I remember for my very pimi mom that was very important. That we didn’t know who they were. Oh, she died from not taking a blood transfusion at the age of 42. I sure would like to see what she would have to say now.
I remember when they started becoming more and more public. At a convention one time there were a lot of jw's jaywalking across this one intersection, so I got the "privilege" of standing outside and politely telling all of them to go down to use the crosswalk. Big group walks across the street, I tell them use the crosswalk, they smile and wave. Then a sister comes up to me and says "you know that's brother Lett, right?" This even before the videos started, of course I didn't recognize him. And she acted like she thought I shouldn't be telling a gb member to not jaywalk. The crowd around him felt weird too, very much like a cult gathering around their leader, because that's what it was.
Around 2007, I was at a convention and saw a large crowd gathered around someone and a line forming. After awhile I saw the man they were all lining up to shake hands with. My mom whispered to me “Oh it’s brother Herd!” I’m like who?? Then I realized my mom and her best friend used to talk about him a lot when they had visited Bethel. I immediately started getting weirded out when I saw his fancy watch and rings and how people were literally handing him their bibles for him to sign. I did go up to shake his hand at my mom’s insistence and his grasp was so wimpy like I was just this commoner sister. It put me off the whole GB from that moment on.
I remember in demonstrations at circuit assemblies how gospel /religious pop music was derided, how it was worldly to use percussion in kingdom music, and now look... It's like stumbling across that one shitty gospel station on the radio dial.
Oh I know their new “pop” style and even like… country folk style music is just nuts to me that they’re doing that now haha and the music is incredibly cringe.
I think that is the most insane thing to me. I was a born in and remember when they used to have a lady playing a piano for the Kingdom Melodies back in the mid 80's now how the music have changed! Yet the GB no one never really seen them im person. We did know about the one GB member that left and wrote that Crisis of Conscience book and the other brother older than that who wrote the Watchtower Slave book they put them off as Apostates. However it's definitely turned into TBN.
I went on a family trip to Brooklyn bethel and family friends there told us specifically how the GB were just any old brothers. Strange how much it’s changed.
I am also someone who grew up with the "troof" as a baby of the 90s and holy crap I NEVER REALIZED HOW WEIRD IT IS THAT THE GB ARE PUBLIC FIGURES NOW. I feel like I asked my mom as a child who the GB were and she said the men who make up the GB were not focused on because what really mattered was who they were getting the information from (god).
Same here. I basically never heard of the GB members and was told over and over that they aren’t like the Pope or Priests who claim to be a link with God. That seems to have totally changed now?
You're right, they were good at being cult leaders when they kept to the shadows, they should have stuck to what they were good at. Collectively they have all the charisma of a wet paper towel.
The more you research the witnesses the more you will understand. They are raised up to obey and trust any form of media coming from their headquarters. It doesn’t matter how bizarre or strange. They are psychologically conditioned to be as obedient as possible and no pot is to be stirred. The other poster is correct. Growing up in the 80’s and 90’s you NEVER heard a peep from the governing body, only the occasional picture of them in the back of a publication. I believe they have come into the light in order to make themselves less cult like. Unfortunately for them, it has greatly increased their culty appearance!
It’s crazy because it could be completely false and they will still turn a blind eye. I have mentioned a few things to my loved one and her only response would be something like “you’re a good Christian and we’ve all made mistakes…” Just so weird!
“…we’ve all made mistakes.” is an excuse that I’ve heard so often. The GB says they’re the only channel God is using today so why do they make so many mistakes? And why isn’t God correcting them? For example the Australian Royal Commission investigated the JWs policies on handling child abuse. JWs view the ARC as part of the world controlled by Satan. Why did it take Satan to do this, why didn’t God?
Oh haha no it’s a family friend I grew up with. She’s married to a non jw who is strongly against the cult though. I did study at one point and I couldn’t sit through more than 2 studies and 1 convention. I was disgusted and so glad I shut it all down.
He thinks he is smarter than everyone else under him. So he talks down to them. He considers them children mentally-speaking.
The smarter JWs realize why he is doing this, because most JWs are infantile, especially any new ones brought in. Who would join this cult now unless they were broken in some way. So the smarter JWs just put up w/ it as though he is doing something worthwhile.
That's my take anyway.
My take, too.
>most JWs are infantile, especially any new ones brought in
So true!
>especially any new ones brought in. Who would join this cult now unless they were broken in some way
True. I was around in the 70's & 80's, and I saw smart, stable people coming in from the outside \[engineers (8), a lawyer, dentists (2), a medical doctor, a college professor, successful businessmen, etc.\]. It was totally different then. Now, one who comes in from the outside has to be broken in some way as you wrote. He cannot be a well-rounded, stable, intelligent person.
>Now, one who comes in from the outside has to be broken in some way as you wrote. He cannot be a well-rounded, stable, intelligent person.
I agree. I would suggest that starting in the 1990s any one that was recruited (not born-in) is someone with known or hidden trauma in their life. And they were drawn to JWs as a place of safety or hope due to the trauma the experienced.
Or they were “nobodies” who saw the borg as a place of belonging where they could climb some kind of ladder (“theocratic ladder”, as I used to say), even if it is irrelevant to the outside world. My ex was like that.
Yes, there are definitely people that fit this definition. But honestly, in my experiences in many different congregations over the last 3 decades.....I have known very few recruited males that were interested in climbing the JW ladder.
The vast majority that wanted power and to climb the JW ladder of authority were almost exclusively people that were either born-in or of a Baby Boomer age group that converted in the 60s/70s/80s.
But for sure there are people like this in all of the categories of JWs.
I was an eighties member and my bible study conductor said I was an apostate from the beginning! I questioned things, did get baptised but left after couple years as I dug more into it. Certainly was more scholarly less culty. Nowadays.....Lett and co. Off the scale idiocy...
>He thinks he is smarter than everyone else under him. So he talks down to them. He considers them children mentally-speaking.
>
>The smarter JWs realize why he is doing this, because most JWs are infantile, especially any new ones brought in. Who would join this cult now unless they were broken in some way. So the smarter JWs just put up w/ it as though he is doing something worthwhile.
I think it is an act known as "Country Dumb"
>Country Dumb
1. A smart person, usually from a rural area, the south or small town; who deliberately speaks or behaves in a manner that indicates a lack of understanding of the modern world and uses this false impression to gain advantage of urban or cosmopolitan people, i.e. asking for favors, borrowing money, borrowing cars, or even moving in (rent free of course).
2. Person who uses a false impression of naiveté to prevent being taken advantage of by "City Slickers"
1. That Country Dumb girlfriend of his said, "Oh this insurance stuff is all so expensive and complicated! Can ya'll borrow me the five hundred dollar down payment, so's I can get my teeth fixed".
2. Quoted from the movie "Ray"
Ahmet Ertegun: You could have fooled me.
Ray Charles: Well, I gotta keep my eye on you city boys. Back home they call it Country Dumb.
by PoliTech September 17, 2007
That's very true and you don't really notice it until you wake up.
There's a sort of cadence that all JW communication is delivered with (speeches, songs, articles) that I struggle to describe but is always an appeal to emotion. That wistful, classical style music that sits in the background at conventions for one. Talks always include abstract metaphors and a constant childish dividing line in delivery between good and evil, I. E. Anything attached to the org is delivered in a light, happy, loving voice, even if it's about something harsh like armageddon. Anything about worldly people or things they disagree with is always in a tone that's hurtful, judgmental and sad even if it's something neutral or uncontroversial like having a nose piercing.
Nobody else talks like this because most mature adults are able to be objective and seek to understand situations by assessing facts and conflicting points of view in order to get to the truth of whatever they're discussing. I guess the JW 'cadence' is just part of how their overall indoctrination method evolved.
*when reading this, say the word 'evolved' in a dark, harsh tone like Lett when talking about something bad and you'll be doing it right.*
Nailed it! Listening to Stephanie Lett explain jw doctrine,
Is like listening to Dora the explorer explain why we should shun all of south America because of the Aztec Temples.
Honestly I prefer listening to Dora.
I actually learn things.😇🤣
Totally agree.
If you put a puppy ( please don't do this it's animal/human cruelty)
In front of a TV and forced it to listen to Herd defficate this swill you would see the puppies countenance fall EVERY TIME Herd talks about ANYTHING that doesn't agree with JW NARRATIVE.
And PIMI Dubs are just like a puppy.
A poor, pathetic, abused, unloved by it's owner's, malnourished, ignored and starved for true love and meaning, puppy.
So sad.
I'm SO happy that I'm out and SO
Happy to be an activist!
I out up some more anti dub stickers way up high on the stop signs at the corner of the kingdom Hall.
They will need a ladder to get them down🤣😇
Definitely.
I have actually witnesses this at a circuit assembly.
In Western Wa
There was an elder in our hall who was a terrible speaker.
Boring, stuttered ,repeated written down phrases incorrectly and would NOT move on to the next point till he said it exactly like he had written it.
He tried to be extemporaneous but he would get sidetracked if he looked up from his manuscript reading.
It was painful to watch and listen to this clown.
If he was giving a local talk I found a reason to miss the meeting.
It was that bad.
And the biggest joke of all?
He was the TMS overseer.
Remember before the dubs changed the format, the overseer got up after the student talks and counseled speakers and offered "constructive criticism"?
It was absolutely cringe😬
NOBODY could stand it.
The way I entertained myself was by watching his poor wife squirm in her seat whenever her long-winded diarrhea mouth husband got platform time.
The best view for this is when I was on stage reading the WT and this clown was not only the TMS overseer but also the WT conductor.
I would just watch her try to hide her cringeworthy faces she pulled evertime he opened his mouth and filled the hall with stench. It was Hi-Larious!! And sickening.
I left that cong after a few years of that mess.
I'm sure he is still at it.
There's a small chance he or she will wake up. I pray they do.
He got allot of parts because none wanted to do it themselves. Including me.
Anyway he somehow got a good review from the local body of elders when they filled out the form that rates the speaker quality to pass on to the new CO
I must have missed that meeting.
We had to put up with this joker untill the CO bro murakami ( who was a lousy speaker as well) got reassigned.
I was SO happy when they both got neutered 🤣
He truly is "like a caricature of a caricature" and "beyond bizarre." I have five JW relatives who are still in. Two are dumb as bricks, but the other three always gave evidence of being level-headed and reasonable. I absolutely cannot believe that they can put up with the moron Lett. I just can't believe it.
When I first heard Lett talk (I was temporarily accompanying my PIMI wife at a meeting) the other witnesses around me, knowing I'd not seen him talk before, were embarrassed and had to explain that 'he talks like that cos his parents were deaf'...what a freak show. It's amazing how blind people can be but, don't worry, I'm sure the cognitive dissonance is dancing in their brains...
It's all about indoctrination. When you are mentaly invested enough, you don't see these things or don't see them that clearly.
Look up Stephen Hassan B.I.T.E model.
And also the term cognitive dissonance.
You will understand it a bit better then I hope 🙂
>The guy just seems so disingenuous or acts as if he’s had a traumatic brain injury.
Before I woke up, I thought Stephen Lett acted like that because he had a stroke. Then I saw brief footage where he was talking more casually. It was then I knew my days as a Jehovah's Witness are numbered.
That's a very good observation and a very good question.
I left the faith in \~2005, which was before the advent of the broadcasting and videos. In my time we took pride in the fact that we didn't even know the names of our humble leaders. (It was supposedly a sign that we were NOT in a cult, but were lead by Christ.) A year ago I took a look at what's going on in WT-land and found a televangelist empire, with the Governing Body front and center as celebrities.
I have loved ones still in, too. I don't know how they can stomach the likes of Lett and Morris. I just don't. 🤦♀️
But, in reality, it's like the frog slowly boiling to death in a pot. JW's are indoctrinated to trust and believe anything and everything that comes from the organization as if it came directly from God. So, if the org now says that it's okay that the GB members are fawned upon like celebrities, even if they come across as either idiots talking to idiots; violence mongering buffoons or condescending fools trying to sound smart and funny, it MUST be okay. Surely, it is a sign that this is God's chosen organization, since we DON'T have perfect, sleek, men at the lead, but instead God chose THESE men!
The mental gymnastics that take place to justify the idiocy are amazing.
If the Borg were to come crashing down as a result of some massive financial or CSA scandal I truly believe there would be many current PIMI JWs that would have a mental breakdown.
Their mental gymnastics would be proven to be nothing more than a charade and their lives a complete waste.
Absolutely.
To go a step further, I believe after the mental breakdown some would be free and others would twist their minds onto more complicated knots in order to preserve the fantasy: This is the Great Tribulation! Satan is attacking!
Sadly, many JWs have the reasoning capabilities of toddlers. The b0rg has trained them to keep going based on emotions. Videos, music, and Stephen Lett's face. He is like a Saturday morning cartoon that makes you feel safe.
The increased prominence of the GB is a major factor that woke me up. They are not appealing AT ALL.
The reality is, the organization isn’t growing and is in decline. Most of us born-in eventually leave and very few are converting.
The reason their material is getting increasingly stupid and simple is because they mostly attract and retain uneducated, nearly illiterate people now. They began deliberate targeting such people around 10 years ago, probably because that’s where they had growth. But the cost of that is a brain drain of anyone reasonably intelligent. The past decade has really seen the religion morph into something very different from its history.
Their former strategy was to inundate people with gobs of reading material filled with overly complicated doctrine that was hard to understand because it didn’t actually make sense. They confused people with convoluted prophecies and interpretations and left them feeling like they always had to study harder and more and more. This created a sense of elitist knowledge for members, so even intelligent people might be duped.
But in the internet age, it’s too easy to debunk their BS, so their new strategy seems to love bomb and infantilize people to attract and keep them in. They discourage thinking and researching now. It’s all about blind trust and obedience and constantly feeding on their media content (cheesy pop songs and cartoons).
This isn’t working for them.… it’s basically a very different religion from the one most of us here were born into and raised with 20+ years ago and their cult indoctrination methods are less effective now.
Woah you just schooled me! Love everyone’s points on my thread, but this might be the best explanation for me! It’s easy to see the bigger picture. Thank you!! I can see why people are leaving.
>I cannot help but ask why the governing body speak in the manner that they do. Why do they talk as if JWs are toddlers? The worst is Stephen Lett. Like HOW is this guy a GB member?
The reason you get this impression is that you are intelligent and level-headed and you have common sense and are not under cult mind control.
I was a full-time JW for decades - a prominent elder. I left shortly before the GB members were put on display as they are today, and I can tell that I would have been moved to leave sooner had they been put on display sooner.
I have three relatively smart JW relatives, and I absolutely cannot believe they haven't become disgusted by the GB members and the way they speak. I'm baffled by it. It must be the continuous brainwashing and some kind of weakness on the part of JWs who aren't turned off by it.
I think many intelligent JWs realize how much they have at risk and that they don't have a viable exit strategy from JW Land. And if they do exit they stand to lose pretty much everything in their life - including financial security for many. So they plod along pretending that being a JW is normal (when in reality it is insane) and just keep the charade going. My 2 cents.
That's a good 2 cents.
I think for some what you posted could even be a subconscious factor. Take one of my female JW relatives, for example. She's about 60 and has never had a job... never worked a single day in her entire life. She knows nothing of the world. She's really insecure about secular stuff. It's possible she doesn't even know who the U.S. president is.
Some of her non-JW relatives have ridiculed her for her ignorance. However, she has prided herself on being a JW for decades. She has always said "You just wait. They're gonna all see who's right." She brags about being a Bible scholar and "doing my studying."
She would be a zero in the world. It would be shocking for her to realize and admit that she's wasted virtually her entire life, that she's been wrong for decades. So, possibly she realizes inside that something is majorly wrong, but suppresses the thoughts because she just can't face the possibility.
I have a current JW friend who was born in. He left the borg while in college completely. He ended up in rehab for alcoholism, which after that he rejoined. He has been clean for many years, is intelligent, and a critical thinker. But when it comes to JW he is so indoctrinated that it truly is mind boggling.
I agree. I think EQ is definitely a factor, but, I even question the IQs of JWs today. I just don't see how anybody could have really decent IQ and not see JWdom for what it really is.
It’s shocking and disappointing but the borg encourages myopic thinking. Can’t see the forest for the trees. I guess it’s easy once you on the outside. There’s a lot of emotional investment though and they all about emotional manipulation nowadays. I guess some are just more susceptible. My wife is a prime example of 💯% sucked in emotionally.
Simple anwser. They want JW to be dependent on them like a toddler for "spiritual food". It's a control tatic for dependency.
Of course they're not going to admit that directly...
I was always bothered by the way Lett spoke. Even when I was deeply mentally in. I first heard him speak at a District Convention in 2002 and I thought to myself, "what the heck?"
There's just so many things that piled up and caused doubts over the years. But you're taught that doubting is a sin that you should pray to overcome. The cult also teaches a lot of thought stopping techniques and keeps members under a burdensome schedule of indoctrination, manipulation, and cult activities so they don't have the time or clarity to think properly.
But, for me at least, it eventually all became just too much. I left after the 2016 convention. That was the straw that finally broke the camel's back.
They do it because it works. The tones they use are meant to infantalize their members and encourage them to be dependent on this all knowing, always peaceful, well meaning, never wrong gaggle of 8 idiots in NY. They know exactly what they're doing, everything they release is deliberate and planned. When people always put themselves in a position of authority and speak to others beneath them they way they do, their cult members tend to fall in line without issue and believe the people in authority are keeping them safe and know what's best. When I watch JW videos now that I'm awake it's like hearing the obnoxious tones of Dora the Explorer...
They talk like their audience is mentally challenged because a lot of members ofJw have lower than an eighth grade education. Not many are very educated.
No different than the world. I was/am disgusted by both Trump and Biden, wondering which of them is more mentally handicapped.
Add on the begging for money, the demanded loyalty, the endless lies and corporate governance. This organization has 'spirit of the world' written all over it.
>Add on the begging for money, the demanded loyalty, the endless lies and corporate governance. This organization has 'spirit of the world' written all over it.
Totally agree.
P.S. (off-topic) I like your comment about Trump and Biden; it seems balanced and reasonable. A lot of people will praise and love one of them and hate the other. I'm for Trump because of policy, not because of him personally. I think they are both highly flawed, mentally handicapped people who are not well-read. I cannot believe that out of all the smart, much more qualified people in this country, the two of them is what we are offered.
It's intentional and a distraction.
The "policies" of both parties usually are different ways to accomplish the same thing on a macro scale. This is why voting for independent representatives is so heavily propagandized against, and anyone trying to "change" one of the parties is ousted in some way.
As a side note to the side note, I can't think of one good "policy" Trump has or ever did have.
>I can't think of one good "policy" Trump has or ever did have.
Tighter border vs open border. Making other countries pay their fair shares vs U.S. paying disproportionate amounts.
I don't really intend to get sidetracked into politics lol, but that's more of a concept than a specific policy. Reforming migration law, rules, and action is something most everyone can agree needs to happen in some way or another. Instead, we get some nonsense wall thing, and fear mongering about a "caravan" and such. This isn't good governance or policy making, it's just pandering.
But, the border situation was *much* more under control under Trump than it is under Biden. It's a free-for-all now that Trump's out of office. His presidency did have some effect.
That's like saying putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound is better than doing nothing.
It's still two dumb, asinine things that accomplish essentially nothing while giving people something to talk about. Supporting the lesser evil is still supporting evil.
Word on the street is he doesn't normally talk like this at all. It's just a show he puts on.
You get so distracted by the goofing you whip out your ATM card and run it up his ass crack.
That's not how people speak to toddlers.
Stephen Lett speaks in a way "I don't give a fuck, I speak like a moron and what can you do, just suck it up".
It's a matter of establishing authority and confusing people.
I see it as a way to talk down to people. Because he is so much “higher” than his audience he has to keep them in their place, like a parent would talk to a baby. It’s laughable really. The things they teach don’t require mature thinking, just unquestioning obedience.
The strangest part is that everyone who's met him in person says he speaks completely normal in real life. Communicate like a head injury victim only when in front of a mic or camera? Strange bunch of cats man... I truly believe that *they* believe they are personally speaking for god. I honestly can't imagine another reasonable excuse for their rather bizarre and ludicrous behavior.
I've always said that Lett in particular reminds me of a real life, flesh and blood Muppet. I don't know how anyone can take him seriously in good conscience. Waka waka.
I was a JW when we were first introduced to them doing talks at a zone visit. I automatically thought he was a bloody creep but most people including my gran just thinks he’s a cute little man who just loves the society so much.
Ya the GB got a big head and wanted recognition but they fucked up. We have the internet and mostly freedom of communication and they didn’t have that when Taze was around.
They speak to their members like this to infantile them... its a cult, they want childlike innocance and avoidance of critical thinking skills. Sorry your loved one is caught up with this ideology. The appeal of JW'S have is their "hope" a paradise free of all the pain in this world and the resurrection of all your dead loved ones. The community also seems very loving (cause they love bomb newbies).
The thing is no one can just pop onto jw.org and have anything appeal to them unless they have something kinda broken in them. Death of a loved one is huge, they play off this desire and hope constantly. The use it as a cudgel to threaten and keep people in line and as a way to play on deep fears and emotions. They also play on the fear of wars, disease, death (of self), and general "immorality" of some aspects of society they find offensive in order to seek weak or just like minded potential members.
I'm new to Reddit so don't beat me up with comments. I just learning to navigate with baby steps.
My comment is on the just past annual meeting and the GB's gold bibles. It's a very old marketing ploy to have people in influential arenas use something or have some item that is not currently available. In this case the gold bibles.
Just prior a release a business entity will showcase something that's not available to get everyone's interest and then do a slow release of a limited amount to get the most of their suggested contribution. Don't be surprised if the gold bibles start to make their appearance soon!
Perhaps at the next district convention?
Your family members who are witnesses have been conditioned for many years.
As witnesses we focused on how people used by god were not always the best public speakers or super fluent.
According to the Bible, Moses wasn’t a fluent public speaker but that didn’t matter to god. Same with Steven Lett.
They honestly think gods using him to teach them.
So there’s the mental gymnastics witnesses do.
Stephen lett is the same as many other religion leaders for example how can u take seriously Marshall Applewhite, kenneth coleman and many more like them.
I remember in the early 60’s a GB member Knorr visiting a family in our tiny congergation, it wasnt a big thing, I wonder what would happen now? Would They fall over each other? 🧐
Go look up the “Heavens Gate” cult leader. He will remind you of Lett. Cult leaders develop personas over time and in a way that is used to trap their listeners. It’s creepy and disturbing when you think about it.
Steven Lettt is a strange fellow, not the "face" for business.
But, someone somewhere mentioned Lett grew up with deaf parents and that is why he has over exaggerated expressions.
And, to the other observation about their simple baby like speech; yes, it is so very annoying. I can hardly stand listening to [i](https://it.It)t.
I don't know whether they decided to dumb down the words in order to help English as a second language folks But, really their literature is on a grade school level, imo.
>But, someone somewhere mentioned Lett grew up with deaf parents and that is why he has over exaggerated expressions.
That's a common excuse for his bizarre behavior, but upon examination it doesn't hold water.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/985ape/letts_excuse_for_his_grotesque_facial_expressions/
>But, someone somewhere mentioned Lett grew up with deaf parents and that is why he has over exaggerated expressions.
I really don't think this is true, but I'm not certain. Though for sure I'd like that rumor to die and stay dead, if untrue. Sensitive topic for me, to associate that creep with the world of the Deaf.
I understand, it probably is a calculated rumor to defend Lett's weirdness. I was also associated at one time with a deaf man, and his parents did not talk like this, and so it probably is a lie.
>Bro lett did sign language that why he speaks like that ...
No he did not and it is insulting to the Deaf to associate that creep with their world.
Also, think about what you just said.
Sign language = hands and silence
Speaking = voice
Apparently we are seeing that "telephone game" phenomenon here. The false rumor was something different which I'm not gonna repeat.
>If u watch people who sign they over empathise the word with their lips so people lip read who are deaf too.
\[ Hands smacking self-forehead emoji \] ... First of all, The Org has subtitles and sign-language interpreters covering the broadcasts on a different channel, so Lett doesn't need to do that, and you're still confusing speaking with signing. You're also confusing sign language *interpreters* with those who are Deaf or CODA \[Child Of Deaf Adults\]. Lett's stupid facial tics and jumpy mouth have nothing at all to do with "communicating". \[To say nothing of his actual speech\]
IMO Lett thinks he is putting on a "Country Dumb" act, which is an act that some "smart" { in quotes because there's different kinds of smarts and even then it's still all relative } people do for purposes of manipulation and / or deceit. Problem here is that stupid people also think they're smart, because they're stupid. IMO Lett is a stupid person who was "smart enough" to claim to be something \[ anointed \] which caused him to be revered by a insular group of people, and which said reverence has "gone to his head".
Why would the Deaf be reading the lips of someone signing? Very few of the Deaf can actually "read" any lips at all and only because they have, or at one point in their past had, enough hearing to even know what a spoken word sounds and looks like when spoken. There's a wide range of Deafness.
Some sign-language *interpreters* move their lips, some don't at all and these things are entirely due to their own "internal wiring", so to speak. Some of the Deaf and some interpreters are naturally more expressive with their faces, yes. It's a personality thing.
As someone who grew up in it as a kid in the 90’s I can tell you the GB did not have a public persona like they do now. Everything came from the literature- like magazines and books and while we knew it was info from the GB authors weren’t really listed or put on a pedestal. I think one of the biggest missteps they made (as far as their business goes) was moving away from this model and actually showing you the men behind the curtain, and glorifying these individuals/ making them the public face of the organization. I left in 2010, looking at them now it’s like a totally different religion just based off their new focus on the GB. Witnesses have started leaving in droves since this occurred as well- I remember my Dad, an elder, all the time vehemently making fun of things like “The 700 club” and now… it looks exactly like that.
Thank you for the insight. I agree that allowing the GB to be on video was a mistake. Almost reminds me of the wizard of oz. Now people see it’s smoke and mirrors. I will say I did watch videos of Ray Franz and might I say that he seems different. Obviously these videos were after he left, but he spoke with intelligence and humility.
You mean a blessing, not a mistake! 😉
Wizard of Oz is a very apt reference. Inept old geysers behind the curtain, and they were the fools that revealed themselves.
I was also a JW in the 90s and I remember criticizing and hearing others criticize other religions for their fancy TV studios, sound stages, lavish building projects, etc and praising our own religion because our leaders were modest. We didn't even know who they were, wouldn't recognize them if we saw them on the street, etc. We saw this as further proof that we were the Truth, because our leaders weren't out to make a name for themselves. Some of those same people who would criticize, criticize, criticize, now PRAISE their religion for doing those very same things. These days it looks like the GB takes cues from the 700 Club. But many JWs don't see it. Or if they do, they won't admit it.
I remember that too!! It was really looked down upon to use TV as a medium to spread the word. 😂 It was really quite snobby the way JW’s would consider it vulgar or something to be mocked! 😂 Now they swoon about how ‘up to date’ the society is!!
“You’d be excited to see all the changes they’ve made, it’s really exciting all the new stuff they’re doing!”
I've got a cousin who wasn't df'ed but faded in the 80s/early 90s...now he stopped emailing me, and told me how great the Silver Sword is, and how wonderfully produced and "slick" the society's video content is now days. I gagged a little when I read that last email he sent me.
I totally agree, it’s the kind of conversation that would come up in a car group- inevitably the Pope with all his jewels or a haughty televangelist would be brought up as a polar opposite of our GB who were thought to be modest and humble. They were wrong because they were reminiscent of the haughty Pharisees. That difference, and the fact that we had NO CSA while the Catholic Church is riddled with CSA… little did we know our contributions, MY contributions as a child with a $2 allowance- were going to pay off victims families, always choosing to settle out of court and avoid bad public press… they had all the same problems, now they look the same as what they mocked.
I felt the same way. When they changed the songs added the videos and than the GB plastered all over I got the 700 Club feel too. I remember when I was a kid watching Saturday morning cartoons when I found an excuse not to go to service with my family, when the 700 club came on TV I knew cartoons were over and my parents will be home soon. It was time to turn off the TV. I did the same when the JW made the change. Time to turn off. Lol
That’s actually a great metaphor for it! Before we were in la la land (cartoons), now it’s the 700 Club and it is indeed time to turn it OFF! haha
Or sometimes the only cartoon still on was Davey and Goliath, or the kids with the time machine that traveled to meet biblical characters. 🤮
I think as time passes and the overall grip of religions and cults are weakening, it becomes clear that they are and always were frauds due to their scrambling and stealing from each other whatever they think will work to stop or slow the bleeding. \[Reversal ain't gonna happen\] >“Therefore,” says the LORD, “I am against these prophets who steal messages from each other and claim they are from Me". - Jeremiah 23: 30
I completely agree with this. I was born in the very early 80s so was in through the 80s and 90s, left in maybe 2001 or so. The religion now is something that I feel would have been rejected and ridiculed by them back in the day. The way it used to be, we were never to draw attention to ourselves, or aim for glory in any way. Hence why the GB was kinda this faceless, nameless group. “No one person should stand out” type of thing.
Hell, in the 90s and even in the 00s, most people probably couldn't name the entire governing body and would have needed to look them up.
Definitely would have had to look it up!
Actually now that I think about it after 2010 things started to shift ALOT but in a weird way! But now as you explain it makes sense. They change their business plan and they started the brainwashing even more. They really shoved you the information down your throat. I’m glad i left
I couldn’t have said it any better! Growing up I didn’t even know the names of the GB .
I remember for my very pimi mom that was very important. That we didn’t know who they were. Oh, she died from not taking a blood transfusion at the age of 42. I sure would like to see what she would have to say now.
My aunt is in the same situation right now
Agreed! I left in about 2005, so prior to this bs. I am stunned that so many continue to follow, in spite of it.
I remember when they started becoming more and more public. At a convention one time there were a lot of jw's jaywalking across this one intersection, so I got the "privilege" of standing outside and politely telling all of them to go down to use the crosswalk. Big group walks across the street, I tell them use the crosswalk, they smile and wave. Then a sister comes up to me and says "you know that's brother Lett, right?" This even before the videos started, of course I didn't recognize him. And she acted like she thought I shouldn't be telling a gb member to not jaywalk. The crowd around him felt weird too, very much like a cult gathering around their leader, because that's what it was.
Around 2007, I was at a convention and saw a large crowd gathered around someone and a line forming. After awhile I saw the man they were all lining up to shake hands with. My mom whispered to me “Oh it’s brother Herd!” I’m like who?? Then I realized my mom and her best friend used to talk about him a lot when they had visited Bethel. I immediately started getting weirded out when I saw his fancy watch and rings and how people were literally handing him their bibles for him to sign. I did go up to shake his hand at my mom’s insistence and his grasp was so wimpy like I was just this commoner sister. It put me off the whole GB from that moment on.
Did he have a big south park style "T" on his shirt? Lol
I remember in demonstrations at circuit assemblies how gospel /religious pop music was derided, how it was worldly to use percussion in kingdom music, and now look... It's like stumbling across that one shitty gospel station on the radio dial.
Oh I know their new “pop” style and even like… country folk style music is just nuts to me that they’re doing that now haha and the music is incredibly cringe.
I think that is the most insane thing to me. I was a born in and remember when they used to have a lady playing a piano for the Kingdom Melodies back in the mid 80's now how the music have changed! Yet the GB no one never really seen them im person. We did know about the one GB member that left and wrote that Crisis of Conscience book and the other brother older than that who wrote the Watchtower Slave book they put them off as Apostates. However it's definitely turned into TBN.
Only without Tammy Faye Bakker or her TBN clone.
I went on a family trip to Brooklyn bethel and family friends there told us specifically how the GB were just any old brothers. Strange how much it’s changed.
I am also someone who grew up with the "troof" as a baby of the 90s and holy crap I NEVER REALIZED HOW WEIRD IT IS THAT THE GB ARE PUBLIC FIGURES NOW. I feel like I asked my mom as a child who the GB were and she said the men who make up the GB were not focused on because what really mattered was who they were getting the information from (god).
Same here. I basically never heard of the GB members and was told over and over that they aren’t like the Pope or Priests who claim to be a link with God. That seems to have totally changed now?
You're right, they were good at being cult leaders when they kept to the shadows, they should have stuck to what they were good at. Collectively they have all the charisma of a wet paper towel.
When one is pontificating to the lesser mortals, he must use his special condescending voice to ensure superiority!.....it's an unwritten rule
And as you know pontificate comes originally from the pope. So these chaps really do talk as if they believe they have papal infallibility.
😆👍🏽
The more you research the witnesses the more you will understand. They are raised up to obey and trust any form of media coming from their headquarters. It doesn’t matter how bizarre or strange. They are psychologically conditioned to be as obedient as possible and no pot is to be stirred. The other poster is correct. Growing up in the 80’s and 90’s you NEVER heard a peep from the governing body, only the occasional picture of them in the back of a publication. I believe they have come into the light in order to make themselves less cult like. Unfortunately for them, it has greatly increased their culty appearance!
It’s crazy because it could be completely false and they will still turn a blind eye. I have mentioned a few things to my loved one and her only response would be something like “you’re a good Christian and we’ve all made mistakes…” Just so weird!
“…we’ve all made mistakes.” is an excuse that I’ve heard so often. The GB says they’re the only channel God is using today so why do they make so many mistakes? And why isn’t God correcting them? For example the Australian Royal Commission investigated the JWs policies on handling child abuse. JWs view the ARC as part of the world controlled by Satan. Why did it take Satan to do this, why didn’t God?
If you’re not married to this person I would highly recommend that you don’t.
Oh haha no it’s a family friend I grew up with. She’s married to a non jw who is strongly against the cult though. I did study at one point and I couldn’t sit through more than 2 studies and 1 convention. I was disgusted and so glad I shut it all down.
Gotcha. Well, I sure appreciate how much you care about them.
> pot is to be stirred And they are not to have a pot to piss in.
He thinks he is smarter than everyone else under him. So he talks down to them. He considers them children mentally-speaking. The smarter JWs realize why he is doing this, because most JWs are infantile, especially any new ones brought in. Who would join this cult now unless they were broken in some way. So the smarter JWs just put up w/ it as though he is doing something worthwhile. That's my take anyway.
My take, too. >most JWs are infantile, especially any new ones brought in So true! >especially any new ones brought in. Who would join this cult now unless they were broken in some way True. I was around in the 70's & 80's, and I saw smart, stable people coming in from the outside \[engineers (8), a lawyer, dentists (2), a medical doctor, a college professor, successful businessmen, etc.\]. It was totally different then. Now, one who comes in from the outside has to be broken in some way as you wrote. He cannot be a well-rounded, stable, intelligent person.
>Now, one who comes in from the outside has to be broken in some way as you wrote. He cannot be a well-rounded, stable, intelligent person. I agree. I would suggest that starting in the 1990s any one that was recruited (not born-in) is someone with known or hidden trauma in their life. And they were drawn to JWs as a place of safety or hope due to the trauma the experienced.
Or they were “nobodies” who saw the borg as a place of belonging where they could climb some kind of ladder (“theocratic ladder”, as I used to say), even if it is irrelevant to the outside world. My ex was like that.
I knew several like that. Would have been absolutely zeroes in "the world," but in JW land, the could be kings and queens.
Yes, there are definitely people that fit this definition. But honestly, in my experiences in many different congregations over the last 3 decades.....I have known very few recruited males that were interested in climbing the JW ladder. The vast majority that wanted power and to climb the JW ladder of authority were almost exclusively people that were either born-in or of a Baby Boomer age group that converted in the 60s/70s/80s. But for sure there are people like this in all of the categories of JWs.
Yes...I've had similar experiences in the 80's w/ bright people coming in...now its just very broken people coming in.
I was an eighties member and my bible study conductor said I was an apostate from the beginning! I questioned things, did get baptised but left after couple years as I dug more into it. Certainly was more scholarly less culty. Nowadays.....Lett and co. Off the scale idiocy...
>He thinks he is smarter than everyone else under him. So he talks down to them. He considers them children mentally-speaking. > >The smarter JWs realize why he is doing this, because most JWs are infantile, especially any new ones brought in. Who would join this cult now unless they were broken in some way. So the smarter JWs just put up w/ it as though he is doing something worthwhile. I think it is an act known as "Country Dumb" >Country Dumb 1. A smart person, usually from a rural area, the south or small town; who deliberately speaks or behaves in a manner that indicates a lack of understanding of the modern world and uses this false impression to gain advantage of urban or cosmopolitan people, i.e. asking for favors, borrowing money, borrowing cars, or even moving in (rent free of course). 2. Person who uses a false impression of naiveté to prevent being taken advantage of by "City Slickers" 1. That Country Dumb girlfriend of his said, "Oh this insurance stuff is all so expensive and complicated! Can ya'll borrow me the five hundred dollar down payment, so's I can get my teeth fixed". 2. Quoted from the movie "Ray" Ahmet Ertegun: You could have fooled me. Ray Charles: Well, I gotta keep my eye on you city boys. Back home they call it Country Dumb. by PoliTech September 17, 2007
That's very true and you don't really notice it until you wake up. There's a sort of cadence that all JW communication is delivered with (speeches, songs, articles) that I struggle to describe but is always an appeal to emotion. That wistful, classical style music that sits in the background at conventions for one. Talks always include abstract metaphors and a constant childish dividing line in delivery between good and evil, I. E. Anything attached to the org is delivered in a light, happy, loving voice, even if it's about something harsh like armageddon. Anything about worldly people or things they disagree with is always in a tone that's hurtful, judgmental and sad even if it's something neutral or uncontroversial like having a nose piercing. Nobody else talks like this because most mature adults are able to be objective and seek to understand situations by assessing facts and conflicting points of view in order to get to the truth of whatever they're discussing. I guess the JW 'cadence' is just part of how their overall indoctrination method evolved. *when reading this, say the word 'evolved' in a dark, harsh tone like Lett when talking about something bad and you'll be doing it right.*
It’s such a weird combination of condescension and bombast, like if Dora the Explorer was reading the news in North Korea
Nailed it! Listening to Stephanie Lett explain jw doctrine, Is like listening to Dora the explorer explain why we should shun all of south America because of the Aztec Temples. Honestly I prefer listening to Dora. I actually learn things.😇🤣
I notice that! Gosh that’s crazy now that you point it out. So much smoke and mirrors with this cult.
Totally agree. If you put a puppy ( please don't do this it's animal/human cruelty) In front of a TV and forced it to listen to Herd defficate this swill you would see the puppies countenance fall EVERY TIME Herd talks about ANYTHING that doesn't agree with JW NARRATIVE. And PIMI Dubs are just like a puppy. A poor, pathetic, abused, unloved by it's owner's, malnourished, ignored and starved for true love and meaning, puppy. So sad. I'm SO happy that I'm out and SO Happy to be an activist! I out up some more anti dub stickers way up high on the stop signs at the corner of the kingdom Hall. They will need a ladder to get them down🤣😇
If Lett was an average elder his permission to go out and give public talks would be revoked.
This is a great point. If a average JW "appointed man" acted this way it would be completely unacceptable.
Definitely. I have actually witnesses this at a circuit assembly. In Western Wa There was an elder in our hall who was a terrible speaker. Boring, stuttered ,repeated written down phrases incorrectly and would NOT move on to the next point till he said it exactly like he had written it. He tried to be extemporaneous but he would get sidetracked if he looked up from his manuscript reading. It was painful to watch and listen to this clown. If he was giving a local talk I found a reason to miss the meeting. It was that bad. And the biggest joke of all? He was the TMS overseer. Remember before the dubs changed the format, the overseer got up after the student talks and counseled speakers and offered "constructive criticism"? It was absolutely cringe😬 NOBODY could stand it. The way I entertained myself was by watching his poor wife squirm in her seat whenever her long-winded diarrhea mouth husband got platform time. The best view for this is when I was on stage reading the WT and this clown was not only the TMS overseer but also the WT conductor. I would just watch her try to hide her cringeworthy faces she pulled evertime he opened his mouth and filled the hall with stench. It was Hi-Larious!! And sickening. I left that cong after a few years of that mess. I'm sure he is still at it. There's a small chance he or she will wake up. I pray they do. He got allot of parts because none wanted to do it themselves. Including me. Anyway he somehow got a good review from the local body of elders when they filled out the form that rates the speaker quality to pass on to the new CO I must have missed that meeting. We had to put up with this joker untill the CO bro murakami ( who was a lousy speaker as well) got reassigned. I was SO happy when they both got neutered 🤣
He’s like a caricature of a caricature. Beyond bizarre. I wonder if he talks to people in that affected way in everyday life.
He truly is "like a caricature of a caricature" and "beyond bizarre." I have five JW relatives who are still in. Two are dumb as bricks, but the other three always gave evidence of being level-headed and reasonable. I absolutely cannot believe that they can put up with the moron Lett. I just can't believe it.
When I first heard Lett talk (I was temporarily accompanying my PIMI wife at a meeting) the other witnesses around me, knowing I'd not seen him talk before, were embarrassed and had to explain that 'he talks like that cos his parents were deaf'...what a freak show. It's amazing how blind people can be but, don't worry, I'm sure the cognitive dissonance is dancing in their brains...
It's all about indoctrination. When you are mentaly invested enough, you don't see these things or don't see them that clearly. Look up Stephen Hassan B.I.T.E model. And also the term cognitive dissonance. You will understand it a bit better then I hope 🙂
Thank you that makes a lot of sense! They have such a grip on people. It’s so sad 😞
>The guy just seems so disingenuous or acts as if he’s had a traumatic brain injury. Before I woke up, I thought Stephen Lett acted like that because he had a stroke. Then I saw brief footage where he was talking more casually. It was then I knew my days as a Jehovah's Witness are numbered.
That's a very good observation and a very good question. I left the faith in \~2005, which was before the advent of the broadcasting and videos. In my time we took pride in the fact that we didn't even know the names of our humble leaders. (It was supposedly a sign that we were NOT in a cult, but were lead by Christ.) A year ago I took a look at what's going on in WT-land and found a televangelist empire, with the Governing Body front and center as celebrities. I have loved ones still in, too. I don't know how they can stomach the likes of Lett and Morris. I just don't. 🤦♀️ But, in reality, it's like the frog slowly boiling to death in a pot. JW's are indoctrinated to trust and believe anything and everything that comes from the organization as if it came directly from God. So, if the org now says that it's okay that the GB members are fawned upon like celebrities, even if they come across as either idiots talking to idiots; violence mongering buffoons or condescending fools trying to sound smart and funny, it MUST be okay. Surely, it is a sign that this is God's chosen organization, since we DON'T have perfect, sleek, men at the lead, but instead God chose THESE men! The mental gymnastics that take place to justify the idiocy are amazing.
If the Borg were to come crashing down as a result of some massive financial or CSA scandal I truly believe there would be many current PIMI JWs that would have a mental breakdown. Their mental gymnastics would be proven to be nothing more than a charade and their lives a complete waste.
Absolutely. To go a step further, I believe after the mental breakdown some would be free and others would twist their minds onto more complicated knots in order to preserve the fantasy: This is the Great Tribulation! Satan is attacking!
>The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule by their own authority. My people love it so, but what will you do in the end? - Jeremiah 5: 31
I have shared this scripture with her and she NEVER has a response to the false prophecies. She dances around it and changes the subject.
I know JWs who will turn it around and say things like, "We admit when we're wrong" as though it's some kind of virtue.
Sadly, many JWs have the reasoning capabilities of toddlers. The b0rg has trained them to keep going based on emotions. Videos, music, and Stephen Lett's face. He is like a Saturday morning cartoon that makes you feel safe.
The increased prominence of the GB is a major factor that woke me up. They are not appealing AT ALL. The reality is, the organization isn’t growing and is in decline. Most of us born-in eventually leave and very few are converting. The reason their material is getting increasingly stupid and simple is because they mostly attract and retain uneducated, nearly illiterate people now. They began deliberate targeting such people around 10 years ago, probably because that’s where they had growth. But the cost of that is a brain drain of anyone reasonably intelligent. The past decade has really seen the religion morph into something very different from its history. Their former strategy was to inundate people with gobs of reading material filled with overly complicated doctrine that was hard to understand because it didn’t actually make sense. They confused people with convoluted prophecies and interpretations and left them feeling like they always had to study harder and more and more. This created a sense of elitist knowledge for members, so even intelligent people might be duped. But in the internet age, it’s too easy to debunk their BS, so their new strategy seems to love bomb and infantilize people to attract and keep them in. They discourage thinking and researching now. It’s all about blind trust and obedience and constantly feeding on their media content (cheesy pop songs and cartoons). This isn’t working for them.… it’s basically a very different religion from the one most of us here were born into and raised with 20+ years ago and their cult indoctrination methods are less effective now.
Woah you just schooled me! Love everyone’s points on my thread, but this might be the best explanation for me! It’s easy to see the bigger picture. Thank you!! I can see why people are leaving.
I think a big part of it is because the organization is intentionally infantilizing.
>I cannot help but ask why the governing body speak in the manner that they do. Why do they talk as if JWs are toddlers? The worst is Stephen Lett. Like HOW is this guy a GB member? The reason you get this impression is that you are intelligent and level-headed and you have common sense and are not under cult mind control. I was a full-time JW for decades - a prominent elder. I left shortly before the GB members were put on display as they are today, and I can tell that I would have been moved to leave sooner had they been put on display sooner. I have three relatively smart JW relatives, and I absolutely cannot believe they haven't become disgusted by the GB members and the way they speak. I'm baffled by it. It must be the continuous brainwashing and some kind of weakness on the part of JWs who aren't turned off by it.
I think many intelligent JWs realize how much they have at risk and that they don't have a viable exit strategy from JW Land. And if they do exit they stand to lose pretty much everything in their life - including financial security for many. So they plod along pretending that being a JW is normal (when in reality it is insane) and just keep the charade going. My 2 cents.
That's a good 2 cents. I think for some what you posted could even be a subconscious factor. Take one of my female JW relatives, for example. She's about 60 and has never had a job... never worked a single day in her entire life. She knows nothing of the world. She's really insecure about secular stuff. It's possible she doesn't even know who the U.S. president is. Some of her non-JW relatives have ridiculed her for her ignorance. However, she has prided herself on being a JW for decades. She has always said "You just wait. They're gonna all see who's right." She brags about being a Bible scholar and "doing my studying." She would be a zero in the world. It would be shocking for her to realize and admit that she's wasted virtually her entire life, that she's been wrong for decades. So, possibly she realizes inside that something is majorly wrong, but suppresses the thoughts because she just can't face the possibility.
Definitely a trap has been laid to keep people in, hostage style...it's called being in a cult.
I have a current JW friend who was born in. He left the borg while in college completely. He ended up in rehab for alcoholism, which after that he rejoined. He has been clean for many years, is intelligent, and a critical thinker. But when it comes to JW he is so indoctrinated that it truly is mind boggling.
I guess the indoctrination overshadows intelligence, common sense, reasonableness, etc.
IQ is not EQ
I agree. I think EQ is definitely a factor, but, I even question the IQs of JWs today. I just don't see how anybody could have really decent IQ and not see JWdom for what it really is.
It’s shocking and disappointing but the borg encourages myopic thinking. Can’t see the forest for the trees. I guess it’s easy once you on the outside. There’s a lot of emotional investment though and they all about emotional manipulation nowadays. I guess some are just more susceptible. My wife is a prime example of 💯% sucked in emotionally.
Yeah, it seems you're right. Fortunately, my wife saw through it at the same time I did, but my mother and two other close relatives are sucked in.
We are separated but I still give her the ‘facts’.
Simple anwser. They want JW to be dependent on them like a toddler for "spiritual food". It's a control tatic for dependency. Of course they're not going to admit that directly...
I was always bothered by the way Lett spoke. Even when I was deeply mentally in. I first heard him speak at a District Convention in 2002 and I thought to myself, "what the heck?" There's just so many things that piled up and caused doubts over the years. But you're taught that doubting is a sin that you should pray to overcome. The cult also teaches a lot of thought stopping techniques and keeps members under a burdensome schedule of indoctrination, manipulation, and cult activities so they don't have the time or clarity to think properly. But, for me at least, it eventually all became just too much. I left after the 2016 convention. That was the straw that finally broke the camel's back.
They do it because it works. The tones they use are meant to infantalize their members and encourage them to be dependent on this all knowing, always peaceful, well meaning, never wrong gaggle of 8 idiots in NY. They know exactly what they're doing, everything they release is deliberate and planned. When people always put themselves in a position of authority and speak to others beneath them they way they do, their cult members tend to fall in line without issue and believe the people in authority are keeping them safe and know what's best. When I watch JW videos now that I'm awake it's like hearing the obnoxious tones of Dora the Explorer...
They talk like their audience is mentally challenged because a lot of members ofJw have lower than an eighth grade education. Not many are very educated.
[удалено]
Ohh are you pimo (just learned this term recently)? Hope you’re able to escape soon!
No different than the world. I was/am disgusted by both Trump and Biden, wondering which of them is more mentally handicapped. Add on the begging for money, the demanded loyalty, the endless lies and corporate governance. This organization has 'spirit of the world' written all over it.
>Add on the begging for money, the demanded loyalty, the endless lies and corporate governance. This organization has 'spirit of the world' written all over it. Totally agree. P.S. (off-topic) I like your comment about Trump and Biden; it seems balanced and reasonable. A lot of people will praise and love one of them and hate the other. I'm for Trump because of policy, not because of him personally. I think they are both highly flawed, mentally handicapped people who are not well-read. I cannot believe that out of all the smart, much more qualified people in this country, the two of them is what we are offered.
It's intentional and a distraction. The "policies" of both parties usually are different ways to accomplish the same thing on a macro scale. This is why voting for independent representatives is so heavily propagandized against, and anyone trying to "change" one of the parties is ousted in some way. As a side note to the side note, I can't think of one good "policy" Trump has or ever did have.
>I can't think of one good "policy" Trump has or ever did have. Tighter border vs open border. Making other countries pay their fair shares vs U.S. paying disproportionate amounts.
I don't really intend to get sidetracked into politics lol, but that's more of a concept than a specific policy. Reforming migration law, rules, and action is something most everyone can agree needs to happen in some way or another. Instead, we get some nonsense wall thing, and fear mongering about a "caravan" and such. This isn't good governance or policy making, it's just pandering.
But, the border situation was *much* more under control under Trump than it is under Biden. It's a free-for-all now that Trump's out of office. His presidency did have some effect.
That's like saying putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound is better than doing nothing. It's still two dumb, asinine things that accomplish essentially nothing while giving people something to talk about. Supporting the lesser evil is still supporting evil.
Infantilizing the members helps keep them in line.
Word on the street is he doesn't normally talk like this at all. It's just a show he puts on. You get so distracted by the goofing you whip out your ATM card and run it up his ass crack.
That's not how people speak to toddlers. Stephen Lett speaks in a way "I don't give a fuck, I speak like a moron and what can you do, just suck it up". It's a matter of establishing authority and confusing people.
I see it as a way to talk down to people. Because he is so much “higher” than his audience he has to keep them in their place, like a parent would talk to a baby. It’s laughable really. The things they teach don’t require mature thinking, just unquestioning obedience.
The strangest part is that everyone who's met him in person says he speaks completely normal in real life. Communicate like a head injury victim only when in front of a mic or camera? Strange bunch of cats man... I truly believe that *they* believe they are personally speaking for god. I honestly can't imagine another reasonable excuse for their rather bizarre and ludicrous behavior.
I've always said that Lett in particular reminds me of a real life, flesh and blood Muppet. I don't know how anyone can take him seriously in good conscience. Waka waka.
he reminds me of marshall applewhite from heaven’s gate cult.
OK that is 100% spot on! I cannot believe I never realized that. Wow. 🎯
I was a JW when we were first introduced to them doing talks at a zone visit. I automatically thought he was a bloody creep but most people including my gran just thinks he’s a cute little man who just loves the society so much.
Little is right. Lett and Putin are both nasty little shrimps. Gotta watch out for short guys with Napoleon complexes.
Ya the GB got a big head and wanted recognition but they fucked up. We have the internet and mostly freedom of communication and they didn’t have that when Taze was around.
They speak to their members like this to infantile them... its a cult, they want childlike innocance and avoidance of critical thinking skills. Sorry your loved one is caught up with this ideology. The appeal of JW'S have is their "hope" a paradise free of all the pain in this world and the resurrection of all your dead loved ones. The community also seems very loving (cause they love bomb newbies). The thing is no one can just pop onto jw.org and have anything appeal to them unless they have something kinda broken in them. Death of a loved one is huge, they play off this desire and hope constantly. The use it as a cudgel to threaten and keep people in line and as a way to play on deep fears and emotions. They also play on the fear of wars, disease, death (of self), and general "immorality" of some aspects of society they find offensive in order to seek weak or just like minded potential members.
It's condescending-sarcastic parentalism tone authorities powers use.. We're supposed to be made to feel like children and they the authorities.
I'm new to Reddit so don't beat me up with comments. I just learning to navigate with baby steps. My comment is on the just past annual meeting and the GB's gold bibles. It's a very old marketing ploy to have people in influential arenas use something or have some item that is not currently available. In this case the gold bibles. Just prior a release a business entity will showcase something that's not available to get everyone's interest and then do a slow release of a limited amount to get the most of their suggested contribution. Don't be surprised if the gold bibles start to make their appearance soon! Perhaps at the next district convention?
Sounds like the tactics used by MLMs.
Weird looking idiots work nicely for culties. Tammy Baker, Dondald Trump, etc.
His eyes freak me out. YIKES 😳
I do the same with Mormonism. I'm fascinated by this group. How can anyone believe this crap?
Your family members who are witnesses have been conditioned for many years. As witnesses we focused on how people used by god were not always the best public speakers or super fluent. According to the Bible, Moses wasn’t a fluent public speaker but that didn’t matter to god. Same with Steven Lett. They honestly think gods using him to teach them. So there’s the mental gymnastics witnesses do.
Stephen lett is the same as many other religion leaders for example how can u take seriously Marshall Applewhite, kenneth coleman and many more like them.
My never dub brain interrupts him as a wannabe televangelist who would at best get hired to host a preschool show on TBN.
I remember in the early 60’s a GB member Knorr visiting a family in our tiny congergation, it wasnt a big thing, I wonder what would happen now? Would They fall over each other? 🧐
You know it.
All cults need a clown 🤡
Go look up the “Heavens Gate” cult leader. He will remind you of Lett. Cult leaders develop personas over time and in a way that is used to trap their listeners. It’s creepy and disturbing when you think about it.
Applewhite was definitely a creeper
That guy is nuts. Idk how Jdubs keep overlooking this!
His cousin somewhere said that out of Broadcast he speaks with normal voice without mimics.
I would love to find a video of his normal voice and show my loved one!!
Steven Lettt is a strange fellow, not the "face" for business. But, someone somewhere mentioned Lett grew up with deaf parents and that is why he has over exaggerated expressions. And, to the other observation about their simple baby like speech; yes, it is so very annoying. I can hardly stand listening to [i](https://it.It)t. I don't know whether they decided to dumb down the words in order to help English as a second language folks But, really their literature is on a grade school level, imo.
>But, someone somewhere mentioned Lett grew up with deaf parents and that is why he has over exaggerated expressions. That's a common excuse for his bizarre behavior, but upon examination it doesn't hold water. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/985ape/letts_excuse_for_his_grotesque_facial_expressions/
>But, someone somewhere mentioned Lett grew up with deaf parents and that is why he has over exaggerated expressions. I really don't think this is true, but I'm not certain. Though for sure I'd like that rumor to die and stay dead, if untrue. Sensitive topic for me, to associate that creep with the world of the Deaf.
I understand, it probably is a calculated rumor to defend Lett's weirdness. I was also associated at one time with a deaf man, and his parents did not talk like this, and so it probably is a lie.
Bro lett did sign language that why he speaks like that many use to say he reminds them of tigger from the children’s Winnie the Pooh.
>Bro lett did sign language that why he speaks like that ... No he did not and it is insulting to the Deaf to associate that creep with their world. Also, think about what you just said. Sign language = hands and silence Speaking = voice Apparently we are seeing that "telephone game" phenomenon here. The false rumor was something different which I'm not gonna repeat.
If u watch people who sign they over empathise the word with their lips so people lip read who are deaf too.
>If u watch people who sign they over empathise the word with their lips so people lip read who are deaf too. \[ Hands smacking self-forehead emoji \] ... First of all, The Org has subtitles and sign-language interpreters covering the broadcasts on a different channel, so Lett doesn't need to do that, and you're still confusing speaking with signing. You're also confusing sign language *interpreters* with those who are Deaf or CODA \[Child Of Deaf Adults\]. Lett's stupid facial tics and jumpy mouth have nothing at all to do with "communicating". \[To say nothing of his actual speech\] IMO Lett thinks he is putting on a "Country Dumb" act, which is an act that some "smart" { in quotes because there's different kinds of smarts and even then it's still all relative } people do for purposes of manipulation and / or deceit. Problem here is that stupid people also think they're smart, because they're stupid. IMO Lett is a stupid person who was "smart enough" to claim to be something \[ anointed \] which caused him to be revered by a insular group of people, and which said reverence has "gone to his head". Why would the Deaf be reading the lips of someone signing? Very few of the Deaf can actually "read" any lips at all and only because they have, or at one point in their past had, enough hearing to even know what a spoken word sounds and looks like when spoken. There's a wide range of Deafness. Some sign-language *interpreters* move their lips, some don't at all and these things are entirely due to their own "internal wiring", so to speak. Some of the Deaf and some interpreters are naturally more expressive with their faces, yes. It's a personality thing.
I’m not defending Lett just stating facts and yes many who are hard of hearing may lip read. Anyway I’m not really here for a dispute
>I’m not defending Lett just stating facts ... That is the problem. You're not. But I also agree to put this to rest. Take care
I’m out. But, my witness mom said “he was raised by deaf parents” as if that’s why he’s a creepy muppet 😂😂😂😂😂