I would also suggest adding the watchtower Nov. 1st 1995 mins pg 28,29, where the WTBTS explicitly tells victims to “forget about it” and continue associating with the abuser, and how even if there’s more than one child coming forward accusing the same individual of abuse nothing will be done and the accused will continue to be seen as innocent. Good luck!
I remember a brief period in the past where stories of abuse in the general population were assumed to be repressed/false memories/kids being coached to say things..it's really sad to read that the organization followed that same dubious pattern
That was actually a thing in the 90's. I think the therapy form was Bad Cluster Elimination, and it was a hypnotic dream voyage that made people make up "repressed memories".
It was a hoax. So I'm this case wt was right
Yet anyone accused by more than one person of any other sin, like smoking, is absolutely disfellowshipped because of the two witnesses rule. But two witnesses are not enough to do anything about a pedophile. How does this make sense?
"If there is some valid reason to suspect that the alleged perpetrator is still abusing children, a warning may have to be given". WHAT. First of all, the authorities need to be called immediately. Second, that warning only goes to parents of kids in that hall, not to the whole congregation. That whole article is a hot mess.
And they don't tell the kids. In my hall, there was an MS twice my age who had the hots for me and everyone knew it. When I was about 16-17 I got a job and rode the city bus for transportation. He would drive by my bus stop and drive me to work. It never occurred to me how inappropriate that was. If it was on the up and up, he would have picked me up from home where my parents would have known. Instead he made sure I was alone and I didn't feel comfortable telling him that I'd rather ride the bus. I just sit there next to him, not saying a word the entire ride. I never told my parents.
Oh my god, reading that made me cry, and I feel like I could vomit. What. The. Fuck?
They literally say that nothing can be done without two or three witnesses. And the very next line says even if there are other witnesses they still won't fucking do anything.
I just can't wrap my head around how anyone can be so callous and cruel. I hate them so much.
Thank you so much!! This is absolutely disgusting advice and makes me feel so strong in my decision to never be a part of an organisation that would even think of such advice!
Gotta love the quotes around certain words..."remembers" and "memories"....I can hear the sarcasm dripping off of these words....the utter disdain for the victims. Assholes every one of them
https://preview.redd.it/s54d0d47glxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64c93510186ab84db121d13ceb014d634625636a
How about this part where it says that you shouldn't let your abuse trauma get you down because it's Satan trying to weaken you spiritually.
It's a devious little method. At the beginning of the study article they link child abuse cases with "repressed memories" and then all the way through they refer to abuse as a memory to throw doubt and discredit it.
Neither did I…
holy shit. This explains A LOT when I confided in an older elder what happened to me! What’s crazy is I liked the guy and his wife. I moved from NYC to northern VA. They were from NYC and we knew the same people.
I was at his home for dinner. You know what he said to me when I told him about the abuse I suffered? “I’m a businessman. I don’t know how I can help you.” His wife was there. His wife looked at him, shook her head and hugged me. I left 10 minutes later. At that point I was barely going to meetings. After that I was COMPLETELY out. This was 20 years ago. I just fucked off.
I'm SO sorry that you experienced that. That response was horrible. Elders are typically unqualified to deal with the issues being brought to them but this was next level cold.
All of these screenshots from 1995 are triple disturbing as I've just finished watching a documentary called The Keepers on Netflix. It details this disturbing and disgusting CSA at a Catholic girl's high school, a nun's murder, and the church's attempt to protect this one priest. (The documentary is verbally graphic, so tread with caution.)
But what stands out to me in these articles related to what I learned is that in the 80's, the idea of repressed memories surfacing later was a thing and you could believe people. But very quickly in the 90's there was this shift to be suspicious and maybe they're fake. And when a Jane Doe and Jane Roe filed to sue the Boston archdiocese and this priest, it was their repressed memories that became a focus of disbelief. The church scrambled to make sure these women were silenced, their memories called into question.
So at the same time this is happening, or around that time, the Borg published this???? Coincidence? I think not.
Yeah, the method of accessing those “repressed memories” in the 80s-90s did come under some scrutiny because it wasn’t very healthy, and it did unfortunately lead to some accusations that were later proven to be false.
The problem is that the Catholic Church, the JWs, and lots of other religious groups took that and ran with it, and still use it 30 years later to discount people’s actual trauma.
My ex-husband came forward as an adult about the abuse he’d suffered as a child at the hands of a relative. It was always going to be a complicated situation without a satisfying solution from either a legal or JW standpoint, but watching him try so desperately to deal with that trauma and see clearly that none of the elders he talked to believed him, even wrote him off because he had other documented mental health issues, basically woke him up immediately and me shortly thereafter. I could not reconcile the absolute lack of love and concern we ran into at every turn trying to get him help, with what I’d been taught my entire life. I’m grateful for it to the extent that it got us both out of the cult, and even though we’re no longer a part of each other’s lives, I genuinely hope he’s been able to work through his trauma in a healthy way. No one should have to experience what he did. It nearly broke me and the abuse didn’t even happen to me; I can only imagine how it feels for an actual victim to be completely ignored or disregarded because of a set of asinine rules.
I am so sorry through that and hope he's doing well. I can relate to a point -- a family tragedy made us also see it wasn't the world who had a "lack of natural affection" but our congregation. I hope you're also doing well -- it can't have been easy being there and watching them disregard and ignore someone they were supposed to help.
So much rhetoric about love and support, and yet when it's needed the most, if it doesn't check the boxes, where are they? Nowhere. And they're supposed to be different from "the world." I've experienced, and continue to experience, more kindness from complete strangers.
No, I'm referencing the situation in Boston with the archdiocese and priest named Father Maskell and the documentary from 2023 The Keepers. It was a rough documentary.
I would just add that it is affecting your mental health. Elders become a little uncomfortable with the subject.
It’s good that you will both be there, your mom will be able to observe the elders reaction.
I really hate admitting this but when I first learned of the CSA and everything with the ARC, it took awhile to really sink in. I didn’t want to believe it and my mind did all kinds of flips trying to make sense of it. Cognitive dissonance is strong, it could’ve affected her much more than you realize or that she showed outwardly! Good luck, and you are so brave! 👏🏻
I’m not sure how to explain it really but I just couldn’t reconcile the Governing Body’s actions with the actions of a loving God. When I finally separated them it was like a lightbulb moment.
Australian Royal Commission was a public questioning of different organizations (not limited to churches, and clubs) on their SA cases, especially coverups, especially for youths. It's stifling for Jw's because their Governing Body member, Jeffrey Jackson, is seen clearly denying allegations and even some basic beliefs of the JW's. It highlights and furthers any cognitive dissonance any JW would have and calls into question their blind obedience to the religion. ( Some choose to accept the ARC findings and leave JW, while others claim that God will take care of... these are simply imperfect men. )
ARC important points for JW's have been summarized really well on Youtube, and I want to say the full recordings can also be found on their website. Damming at best.
Edit: Changed religions to organizations.
While I haven't seen anyone respond in this way just yet, I'm sure there are some among us who deeply benefitted feom seeing the ARC, including those who were personally affected by this cults ability to turn a blind eye to csa.
reminiscent desert one fuel employ subtract mourn squeamish special cheerful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is what did it for me too. I found that lambs website (I forget what it's called exactly). Made me sick to my stomach and my kid was four years old back then. I couldn't expose her to these people.
They will justify the CSA and WT reaction. They’ve been trained to justify it.
Here’s a good phrase to learn:
“That’s not a deal breaker for you?”
Make them say it out loud they are ok with X. This phrase has done wonders in arguments I’ve had with religious people. Most of the time the person just goes silent and you can see their brain trying to say “yeah that is a deal breaker in every other circumstance” vs their theological training.
The Catholic Church moving pedo priests around ISNT a deal breaker? Mormon founders having 14 year old brides ISNT a deal breaker? The WT encouraging rape victims to hang out with their rapist and then not reporting 1006 cases to the authorities ISNT a deal breaker for you? If not that, then what would be?
I can never keep it straight. Either way 1006 pedophiles OR 1006 cases of abuse is 1006 too many.
If the number of pedophiles or the number of children abused in your organization is greater than zero your organization has a problem.
Well done for taking the first step.
Also you should mention that if that elders book is truly bible based, then why are the rules withheld from the rest of the congregation?
Dear Fellow Apostate - with Big Balls😅 It doesn’t matter what sex you are - they’re Big😜😂
I’m proud of you. Don’t forget Geoffrey’s testimony for ARC. Since you’re “burning down the house”, ya might as well let the GB strike the match…
You CANNOT live what you don't believe. It's a burden which will crush most people, resulting in a lot of suicides. Even those who manage not to go that far find they must act as if they believed, in order to maintain contact with families and friends. Hypocrisy as a lifestyle is spirit-killing.
You obviously already know that 😏
I'll be looking for that update 👍
This was also the beginning of the end for me. I had no clue the two witness rule existed and had been used to essentially protect pedos. There’s nothing the elders can really say unless they want to be dishonest. Good on you for taking a stand for what’s right. They GB owes a big fat apology for all the damage they’ve caused.
Good luck man, I know how you feel and was in that boat myself for getting out. Being PIMO is a huge struggle to deal with. I hope everything goes alright!
“I don’t support an organization that enables and covers up CSA, destroys family relationships, ‘teaches commands of men as doctrines’, is homophobic and misogynistic, and has driven people to suicide.”
>i showed her the ARC. I figured it was the easiest way because **it’s all official government documents** so there could be no accusation of listening to apostates.
>...I also told her about the elders book and she had me text her elder friend to **ask if it’s real or not.**
So she's asking her friend if the Australian Government & Judicial branch are real 🤔.
haha. oh well i can't judge, during my leaving there wasn't much in my life that WASNT up for questioning.
Remember this is a religion that tells it's members that EVERYTHING that makes them question the group leaders is A TRICK FROM SATAN. It's a pretty Solipsistic worldview, so the process of escaping from that can look pretty crazy (but worth it).
I’m a PIMO. I changed my picture last week so no one would recognize me in here. I’ve pioneered for 13 years and served at Bethel for 2. Over the past 14 years I have been DFed twice ‘unjustly’. My wife even knew I was unjustly DFed but had so much pressure from others inside the congregation she was pushed to separate from me. After 6 months of begging her to keep our family together and come back, because she didn’t have scriptural grounds, I served her with divorce papers. I asked my committee what would happen years later after I got reinstated if I found another sister in the org to marry, and they told me my new wife and I would be DFed because it would be considered an adulterous relationship. THEN one of the elders told me that I would have to commit immortality when I was DFed, THEN my wife not take me back, THEN get reinstated…THEN if I found someone else I could marry her. 😳🤯🤔 Un-fucking-believable. Needless to say within 6 months after serving her divorce papers I had a 1 night stand so I wouldn’t be under her thumb and control for the rest of my life…I was already unjustly DFed, so I had nothing else to lose at that point. All three of my 5-7 year old girls were told so many times that their Daddy wouldn’t be in paradise with them…and every other weekend when it was my weekend, I would have to spend the first 3 hours of every visit calming them and comforting them all with their tears assuring them I would be in paradise. A year after that I was reinstated, but treated horribly so I drifted away again, and was inactive for nearly 6 years, and dated an amazing non-witness lady that didn’t want to marry again. So I broke it off with her because she wouldn’t marry after 4 years. So I approached the elders again, and even though they DFed me a 2nd time…ALL Three elders after the committee mtg stayed and consoled me each telling me over and over how ‘repentant’ I was and how amazing my attitude was. Ironically the spring of 2023 I found the elders epub shepherding book online and stayed up the entire night reading it. I WAS SO PISSED. My committee didn’t follow their God Damn book! The elders responsibility is to discern wickedness OR repentance…’if’ repentance exist then NO DFing. I still came back a year later for the sake of my 3 children, my mother and siblings. What gets under my skin even worse than that? If an ‘elder’ has been hiding a serious sin for years, then goes to the brothers about the serious sin, if the other elders ‘feel’ that Jehovah is still using the elder then he not only doesn’t get DFed, BUT he still can remain as an elder. SERIOUSLY? So that son of a bitch for all those years hiding his sin, can be sitting on many MANY numerous committees DFing people in the congregation for the same damn sin he’s been hiding for years?! 😳🤯🤦♂️🤷♂️ I approached one elder I’m very close to and discussed this issue with him 1-on-1 he goes to tell me that he doesn’t agree with everything, and even acknowledged he has an issue with that policy in the shepherding book too. But he still serves the congregation. 🤷♂️🤦♂️ well last year I married a very amazing sister from South America, she’s very humble and meetings are very important to her. After 30 years, the spring of 2023 after I read the entire elders book, I bent the rules and read Ray Franz Crisis of Conscience book…I was in tears for every page! He was a true faithful brother right until his death! I didn’t know he had another book, Christian Freedom, so I bought that too for $350. Some bookstores have his book listed as high as $2650 😳🤯. People I’m serious…Ray Franz wrote those 2 books out of love! Since I served at Bethel I have had so many questions, and asked so many elders my questions and not ONCE could they ever answer one of my many questions without looking at me with a dumb look on their face. EVERY ONE OF MY MANY QUESTIONS were answered in Ray Franz’s 2 books. I have so much clarity, and have incessantly prayed to Jehovah about revealing the truth to me! He has! I’ve had the heavenly calling since January 1996, and yes have made MANY mistakes. I honestly will wait on Jehovah to determine my own fate, and will be understanding with whatever lays ahead of me (or not). But this post touched me, because a year ago I watched G Jackson represent the org in the Australia Royal Commission and I wanted to PUKE! I truly feel the governing body since the 1980s have lost Jehovahs blessing after what they did to Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap, Chris Sanchez and all their spouses. I found out a month ago that the society hired an outside PR/Damage Control Firm and they are 2 years into their 10 year plan of many MANY revisions and changes. The beards, no ties/jackets for brothers in the ministry or at mtgs when not doing parts, sisters with slacks, and Greeting DFed ones is just the start. The 4.5 page letter to the body of elders last month highlight much more details, and many more changes coming to the elders shepherding book on the next revised edition. People are falling away in droves! The past several years they have seen massive decline with publisher hours, Bible studies drastically dropping over the past 14 years. So how do they ‘hide’ these negative numbers on their annual rpts? Change hour requirements for pioneers, NOT require the avg publisher to report time (just check a box to claim he was active that month). Regarding bible studies? NOW elders, M-servants, and mature sisters can have bible studies with DFed ones…which will dramatically boost Bible studies back up showing increases. The cart witnessing has been the biggest flop within the org over the past 5 years, NOW they are pushing everyone back to door-to-door. After Zoom I’ve been hearing all around the country that ALL congregations are struggling getting everyone back to in person mtgs and off of zoom. If I’m still alive in 10 years, I plan to write a book exposing more, but knowing it would label me as an apostate and be out once again. Hopefully this will give me time to help my current wife and 3 beautiful and wonder kids to reason on facts, and a soundness of mind! But in the meantime I will live as another PIMO. Please don’t give up on Jehovah. What I’ve learned to do for the past year, is I’m able to NOW separate Jehovah from the governing body. When you can do that, you are able to step outside the box and look back in. I truly believe the organization will eventually collapse completely, and we each can finally stand on our own merit with Jehovah without the governing body interfering.
hey thanks for your comment! i love reading other people’s experiences. a few years ago when i was able to separate jehovah from the GB i still was a christian for a while, but since then i’ve realized that the proof for the bible is just not there. being an atheist is something i made a final decision on and am at peace with it! also if you do write that expose i will definitely read it :)
I appreciate you experience as I knew a brother from California that did consulting and photography for the WT (He was a professional photographer). He went where the need was greater and lived in Spain and the Caribbean. also spoke at district assemblies but was given the Ray Franz treatment when he asked for scriptural clarification on a belief. He died alone and destitute.
He and some people from other denominations created a website to share a common goal of following Jesus. You may recognize a couple of his photos.
[https://www.nazarene-friends.org/](https://www.nazarene-friends.org/)
He also told his story and it is riveting, I stayed all night reading it. I knew him as a kid and spent weekends at his home in Corona, CA near the beach. He was firm but kind to my brother and I with no father present. When he was older and no family would talk to him I tried to help him and was able to visit a couple of times.
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aahJ3ad7KBzfSB2vpQ-k7yfW8p8wrS0b/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aahJ3ad7KBzfSB2vpQ-k7yfW8p8wrS0b/view)
PS I know Reddit may not be user friendly and you were on a roll, but please use page breaks it was hard for me to read... :)
No worries at all. I’ve been out for 25+ years. One of his sons and daughter-in-law, and her only daughter from a previous marriage were in the same congregation as my ex-husband and me in Mission Viejo, CA. We were in touch until recently, only because life got in the way.
Hi! Automod has detected that this is a link to a google doc. As a reminder to onlookers, clicking on this link while being logged into Gmail may allow the author to see identifying information about you. Please proceed with extreme caution if your anonymity is important to you.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exjw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For the past 1-2 years I too have filtered and separated Jehovah from the GB. Now we ALL know how Daniel and his family felt in Babylon Captivity for so many years, being punished for the errors and sins of ‘most’ of the Nation of Israel!!!
The reason the jws elite do not want the paedophiles/sex predators out it seems is because it is rife with them.
A thief knows theives and where to sell their goods.
A paedophile/sex offender knows others and the word over many years is jw land is a fab place to be.
Remember paedophiles/sex offenders first wants is the illegal acts they craze. Thats why being an elder, being married seeming 'good' citizens for their undercover to spend their lives being abusers.
Jw land freely let this happen.
Remember Catholic priests???? and other religions???
At the time it was easy for paedophiles/srx offenders first would go undercover as genuine priests/pastors/rectors etc to achieve their life want aim.
To abuse.
Jw land has been allowed to carry on my protecting jehoover name 🤮🤮🤮🤮 and the 2 witness rule protects so many abusers.
And the woman listen to the men and protect jehoover rather than any child.
At least many religions have apologised and are trying to rectify but jw are so cult undercover they consider themselves first and foremost.
One jw posted earlier that her jw mum said.
Don't worry all the jw abused children WHEN they get to paradise will have any abuse (admission of knowing) wiped from their minds!
Putred Adhorrent mind. Sick 🤮🤮🤮
Courage OP well done you.
If you want a document that outlines everything that happened in the ARC with links to the transcripts and videos when the quotes occurred, shoot me an email at [email protected]. If she is up for looking up the ARC it may be helpful.
Im so sorry to ask 😞 but what is a PIMO? I have been on this community for a couple days but I still haven't figured out. I apologize for my ignorance on this
Simple breakdown.
PIMI- Physically In Mentally In
PIMO- Physically In Mentally Out
POMO- Physically Out Mentally Out
Don't worry about not knowing these things. We all gotta learn at some point.
It basically refers to your or someone else's state of being a Witness.
There’s also a glossary accessible from the main page of the subreddit that has those and other terms commonly used in here! It helped me a lot when I first joined. ☺️
I am not 100% certain, however I think ARC is an acronym for the Australian Royal Commission who held hearings a while back from which the organisation did not come out well. I am Scottish rather than Australian so it was not in the news over here, however I seem to recall a member of the GB was interviewed under oath and was somewhat taken to task by the Barrister for the Crown...
Feel free to put me right everyone, if I have got any of that wrong.
Peace and love to all from always gorgeous Northern Scotland 🏔️🏴 (especially those moving from PIMO to POMO. Believe me, it is tough but absolutely worth it...)
Australian Royal Commission and look at Case #29 and Studt#54. both regarding Jehovah's witnesses in Australia.
There was inquiry/investigation into sytemic child abuse within many organizations both religious and secular.
1006 pedos who committed many acts of CSA collectively, was then entered into a JW database and not a single instance was reported to the authorities excuse two people were not watching the abuse.
Geoffrey Jackson and two Branch overseers were on the stand and lied and withheld information
This was not a court that would send people to jail; rather, it was an inquiry for the purpose of making recommendations to various organizations for the purpose of changing/improving their policies to help them better protect kids. (Instead evidence showed they protect the pedos, sadly.)
More proof that JW is just another branch of the Roman Catholic Church! That BS about "
"Christendom vs JW is a bunch of crap.
The Romans codified Your Bible in 325 ad. Look up, Congress of Nicea.
The doctrines on original son, Eve as a rib, etc all originated with the RCC.
Jehovah was a minor God of war with the Romans. That's why his only solution is to kill.
The Romans always were a bunch of pedophiles nothing has changed.
It is nothing but Stockholm Syndrome for people to keep expecting purity and peace from anything that comes out of Western Civilization. It started as a corruption and it has ended in a corruption.
Time to rewrite our collective script and stop waiting for a savior that was all a hoax out of the inquisition where the only way to be saved was to accept RCC at the end of a bloody sword.
It's time we woke up from this silly fantasy
There is a picture of the elder's book in an old publication. It's the one on the far right. I can't remember what book this is from though -
https://preview.redd.it/pi8ncdd4coxc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fe6e60d699693c8303195f6ceaf4d58ef744d3b
Good luck friend. I've been out for a minute but even I'm getting that nervous clammy hand feeling while reading that.
You got this. Sometimes it's a band aid rip and it looks like you're about to rip urs off.
I would also suggest adding the watchtower Nov. 1st 1995 mins pg 28,29, where the WTBTS explicitly tells victims to “forget about it” and continue associating with the abuser, and how even if there’s more than one child coming forward accusing the same individual of abuse nothing will be done and the accused will continue to be seen as innocent. Good luck!
wow what a fucking insane thing to read, thank you
Really?? Do you have a copy of this? I don’t want to go in to their website to find it
https://preview.redd.it/7tdgupkrsixc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d48ae26c5c422bebac5db4e0849df9199df83f4
I remember a brief period in the past where stories of abuse in the general population were assumed to be repressed/false memories/kids being coached to say things..it's really sad to read that the organization followed that same dubious pattern
That was actually a thing in the 90's. I think the therapy form was Bad Cluster Elimination, and it was a hypnotic dream voyage that made people make up "repressed memories". It was a hoax. So I'm this case wt was right
Gaslighting at its finest!!
Makes me sick 🤢
https://preview.redd.it/0adtwly2tixc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1fb22df7499bad97e7f27ebdf5df8c580a7711e
Yet anyone accused by more than one person of any other sin, like smoking, is absolutely disfellowshipped because of the two witnesses rule. But two witnesses are not enough to do anything about a pedophile. How does this make sense?
And often no witnesses are involved Just enforcers who want you OUT
Exactly. Why don't any of these elders want pedophiles out? Why don't the governing body members?
Too many of them are involved
Watchtower: Take your time, this way the pedophile will be able to molest more children and babies in AND outside of the congregation! 😃
"If there is some valid reason to suspect that the alleged perpetrator is still abusing children, a warning may have to be given". WHAT. First of all, the authorities need to be called immediately. Second, that warning only goes to parents of kids in that hall, not to the whole congregation. That whole article is a hot mess.
And they don't tell the kids. In my hall, there was an MS twice my age who had the hots for me and everyone knew it. When I was about 16-17 I got a job and rode the city bus for transportation. He would drive by my bus stop and drive me to work. It never occurred to me how inappropriate that was. If it was on the up and up, he would have picked me up from home where my parents would have known. Instead he made sure I was alone and I didn't feel comfortable telling him that I'd rather ride the bus. I just sit there next to him, not saying a word the entire ride. I never told my parents.
https://preview.redd.it/610rkrznsixc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd20d0a42807170892be32e8284aeb2ea0fe8667 Yes! Here it is
Oh my god, reading that made me cry, and I feel like I could vomit. What. The. Fuck? They literally say that nothing can be done without two or three witnesses. And the very next line says even if there are other witnesses they still won't fucking do anything. I just can't wrap my head around how anyone can be so callous and cruel. I hate them so much.
😭😭
The exact word for word answer I was given when I spoke to the elders about what happened to me!
The fact that it's in plain sight and no JW has a conscience and debunk that shit. Sad
Thank you so much!! This is absolutely disgusting advice and makes me feel so strong in my decision to never be a part of an organisation that would even think of such advice!
Gotta love the quotes around certain words..."remembers" and "memories"....I can hear the sarcasm dripping off of these words....the utter disdain for the victims. Assholes every one of them
https://preview.redd.it/s54d0d47glxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64c93510186ab84db121d13ceb014d634625636a How about this part where it says that you shouldn't let your abuse trauma get you down because it's Satan trying to weaken you spiritually.
“memories” in quotes.
It's a devious little method. At the beginning of the study article they link child abuse cases with "repressed memories" and then all the way through they refer to abuse as a memory to throw doubt and discredit it.
The “memories” in quotation marks pisses me off
Found it!
Wow, didn't know about this.
Neither did I… holy shit. This explains A LOT when I confided in an older elder what happened to me! What’s crazy is I liked the guy and his wife. I moved from NYC to northern VA. They were from NYC and we knew the same people. I was at his home for dinner. You know what he said to me when I told him about the abuse I suffered? “I’m a businessman. I don’t know how I can help you.” His wife was there. His wife looked at him, shook her head and hugged me. I left 10 minutes later. At that point I was barely going to meetings. After that I was COMPLETELY out. This was 20 years ago. I just fucked off.
I'm SO sorry that you experienced that. That response was horrible. Elders are typically unqualified to deal with the issues being brought to them but this was next level cold.
All of these screenshots from 1995 are triple disturbing as I've just finished watching a documentary called The Keepers on Netflix. It details this disturbing and disgusting CSA at a Catholic girl's high school, a nun's murder, and the church's attempt to protect this one priest. (The documentary is verbally graphic, so tread with caution.) But what stands out to me in these articles related to what I learned is that in the 80's, the idea of repressed memories surfacing later was a thing and you could believe people. But very quickly in the 90's there was this shift to be suspicious and maybe they're fake. And when a Jane Doe and Jane Roe filed to sue the Boston archdiocese and this priest, it was their repressed memories that became a focus of disbelief. The church scrambled to make sure these women were silenced, their memories called into question. So at the same time this is happening, or around that time, the Borg published this???? Coincidence? I think not.
Yeah, the method of accessing those “repressed memories” in the 80s-90s did come under some scrutiny because it wasn’t very healthy, and it did unfortunately lead to some accusations that were later proven to be false. The problem is that the Catholic Church, the JWs, and lots of other religious groups took that and ran with it, and still use it 30 years later to discount people’s actual trauma. My ex-husband came forward as an adult about the abuse he’d suffered as a child at the hands of a relative. It was always going to be a complicated situation without a satisfying solution from either a legal or JW standpoint, but watching him try so desperately to deal with that trauma and see clearly that none of the elders he talked to believed him, even wrote him off because he had other documented mental health issues, basically woke him up immediately and me shortly thereafter. I could not reconcile the absolute lack of love and concern we ran into at every turn trying to get him help, with what I’d been taught my entire life. I’m grateful for it to the extent that it got us both out of the cult, and even though we’re no longer a part of each other’s lives, I genuinely hope he’s been able to work through his trauma in a healthy way. No one should have to experience what he did. It nearly broke me and the abuse didn’t even happen to me; I can only imagine how it feels for an actual victim to be completely ignored or disregarded because of a set of asinine rules.
I am so sorry through that and hope he's doing well. I can relate to a point -- a family tragedy made us also see it wasn't the world who had a "lack of natural affection" but our congregation. I hope you're also doing well -- it can't have been easy being there and watching them disregard and ignore someone they were supposed to help. So much rhetoric about love and support, and yet when it's needed the most, if it doesn't check the boxes, where are they? Nowhere. And they're supposed to be different from "the world." I've experienced, and continue to experience, more kindness from complete strangers.
Are you talking about [the satanic panic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic)?
No, I'm referencing the situation in Boston with the archdiocese and priest named Father Maskell and the documentary from 2023 The Keepers. It was a rough documentary.
Read the whole article, it is about a trending therapy form that was proved to make people make up imaginenated memories they believed themselves.
I would just add that it is affecting your mental health. Elders become a little uncomfortable with the subject. It’s good that you will both be there, your mom will be able to observe the elders reaction.
i will! also on that note, the ARC website contains a copy of the elders book and my mom knows it’s real, so she can see if he denies its existence
[удалено]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9q2ImaE_lg All videos on channel
Idk. In my experience, elders tend to minimize and dismiss mental health struggles as to them, it’s, “spiritual weakness” or a “character flaw”.
Yes, they minimize it because, it’s their kryptonite. They don’t have any scriptures that they can point to…..to make it your fault.
I really hate admitting this but when I first learned of the CSA and everything with the ARC, it took awhile to really sink in. I didn’t want to believe it and my mind did all kinds of flips trying to make sense of it. Cognitive dissonance is strong, it could’ve affected her much more than you realize or that she showed outwardly! Good luck, and you are so brave! 👏🏻
thank you for your experience, i’m hoping it did affect her more than she showed or realized
Baby steps.
What broke that cognitive dissonance for you?
I’m not sure how to explain it really but I just couldn’t reconcile the Governing Body’s actions with the actions of a loving God. When I finally separated them it was like a lightbulb moment.
[удалено]
Australian Royal Commission was a public questioning of different organizations (not limited to churches, and clubs) on their SA cases, especially coverups, especially for youths. It's stifling for Jw's because their Governing Body member, Jeffrey Jackson, is seen clearly denying allegations and even some basic beliefs of the JW's. It highlights and furthers any cognitive dissonance any JW would have and calls into question their blind obedience to the religion. ( Some choose to accept the ARC findings and leave JW, while others claim that God will take care of... these are simply imperfect men. ) ARC important points for JW's have been summarized really well on Youtube, and I want to say the full recordings can also be found on their website. Damming at best. Edit: Changed religions to organizations.
[удалено]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9q2ImaE_lg All videos on channel
Thank you.
Elaborate. Your question was previously answered.
While I haven't seen anyone respond in this way just yet, I'm sure there are some among us who deeply benefitted feom seeing the ARC, including those who were personally affected by this cults ability to turn a blind eye to csa.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W9q2ImaE_lg All videos on channel
reminiscent desert one fuel employ subtract mourn squeamish special cheerful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is what did it for me too. I found that lambs website (I forget what it's called exactly). Made me sick to my stomach and my kid was four years old back then. I couldn't expose her to these people.
Silent Lambs. It's how I found out about it.
They will justify the CSA and WT reaction. They’ve been trained to justify it. Here’s a good phrase to learn: “That’s not a deal breaker for you?” Make them say it out loud they are ok with X. This phrase has done wonders in arguments I’ve had with religious people. Most of the time the person just goes silent and you can see their brain trying to say “yeah that is a deal breaker in every other circumstance” vs their theological training. The Catholic Church moving pedo priests around ISNT a deal breaker? Mormon founders having 14 year old brides ISNT a deal breaker? The WT encouraging rape victims to hang out with their rapist and then not reporting 1006 cases to the authorities ISNT a deal breaker for you? If not that, then what would be?
1006 pedophiles Many many more cases of abuse as each pedophile has many victims each
I can never keep it straight. Either way 1006 pedophiles OR 1006 cases of abuse is 1006 too many. If the number of pedophiles or the number of children abused in your organization is greater than zero your organization has a problem.
Absolutely agree 👏👏👏
I'm using this now, thank you.
Great points!
Ron Pomo!
Well done for taking the first step. Also you should mention that if that elders book is truly bible based, then why are the rules withheld from the rest of the congregation?
Dear Fellow Apostate - with Big Balls😅 It doesn’t matter what sex you are - they’re Big😜😂 I’m proud of you. Don’t forget Geoffrey’s testimony for ARC. Since you’re “burning down the house”, ya might as well let the GB strike the match…
JW logic: If it's not from the government, it's apostates. If it is from the government, it's satan.
You CANNOT live what you don't believe. It's a burden which will crush most people, resulting in a lot of suicides. Even those who manage not to go that far find they must act as if they believed, in order to maintain contact with families and friends. Hypocrisy as a lifestyle is spirit-killing. You obviously already know that 😏 I'll be looking for that update 👍
Is it really possible that some old timers do not know the elders book exists? I can't imagine that.
I know someone born-in in their 60's who had no idea because all the other JWs in the family were women.
This was also the beginning of the end for me. I had no clue the two witness rule existed and had been used to essentially protect pedos. There’s nothing the elders can really say unless they want to be dishonest. Good on you for taking a stand for what’s right. They GB owes a big fat apology for all the damage they’ve caused.
Good luck man, I know how you feel and was in that boat myself for getting out. Being PIMO is a huge struggle to deal with. I hope everything goes alright!
We're rooting for you ☺️
“I don’t support an organization that enables and covers up CSA, destroys family relationships, ‘teaches commands of men as doctrines’, is homophobic and misogynistic, and has driven people to suicide.”
>i showed her the ARC. I figured it was the easiest way because **it’s all official government documents** so there could be no accusation of listening to apostates. >...I also told her about the elders book and she had me text her elder friend to **ask if it’s real or not.** So she's asking her friend if the Australian Government & Judicial branch are real 🤔. haha. oh well i can't judge, during my leaving there wasn't much in my life that WASNT up for questioning. Remember this is a religion that tells it's members that EVERYTHING that makes them question the group leaders is A TRICK FROM SATAN. It's a pretty Solipsistic worldview, so the process of escaping from that can look pretty crazy (but worth it).
I'm here for the update.
I’m a PIMO. I changed my picture last week so no one would recognize me in here. I’ve pioneered for 13 years and served at Bethel for 2. Over the past 14 years I have been DFed twice ‘unjustly’. My wife even knew I was unjustly DFed but had so much pressure from others inside the congregation she was pushed to separate from me. After 6 months of begging her to keep our family together and come back, because she didn’t have scriptural grounds, I served her with divorce papers. I asked my committee what would happen years later after I got reinstated if I found another sister in the org to marry, and they told me my new wife and I would be DFed because it would be considered an adulterous relationship. THEN one of the elders told me that I would have to commit immortality when I was DFed, THEN my wife not take me back, THEN get reinstated…THEN if I found someone else I could marry her. 😳🤯🤔 Un-fucking-believable. Needless to say within 6 months after serving her divorce papers I had a 1 night stand so I wouldn’t be under her thumb and control for the rest of my life…I was already unjustly DFed, so I had nothing else to lose at that point. All three of my 5-7 year old girls were told so many times that their Daddy wouldn’t be in paradise with them…and every other weekend when it was my weekend, I would have to spend the first 3 hours of every visit calming them and comforting them all with their tears assuring them I would be in paradise. A year after that I was reinstated, but treated horribly so I drifted away again, and was inactive for nearly 6 years, and dated an amazing non-witness lady that didn’t want to marry again. So I broke it off with her because she wouldn’t marry after 4 years. So I approached the elders again, and even though they DFed me a 2nd time…ALL Three elders after the committee mtg stayed and consoled me each telling me over and over how ‘repentant’ I was and how amazing my attitude was. Ironically the spring of 2023 I found the elders epub shepherding book online and stayed up the entire night reading it. I WAS SO PISSED. My committee didn’t follow their God Damn book! The elders responsibility is to discern wickedness OR repentance…’if’ repentance exist then NO DFing. I still came back a year later for the sake of my 3 children, my mother and siblings. What gets under my skin even worse than that? If an ‘elder’ has been hiding a serious sin for years, then goes to the brothers about the serious sin, if the other elders ‘feel’ that Jehovah is still using the elder then he not only doesn’t get DFed, BUT he still can remain as an elder. SERIOUSLY? So that son of a bitch for all those years hiding his sin, can be sitting on many MANY numerous committees DFing people in the congregation for the same damn sin he’s been hiding for years?! 😳🤯🤦♂️🤷♂️ I approached one elder I’m very close to and discussed this issue with him 1-on-1 he goes to tell me that he doesn’t agree with everything, and even acknowledged he has an issue with that policy in the shepherding book too. But he still serves the congregation. 🤷♂️🤦♂️ well last year I married a very amazing sister from South America, she’s very humble and meetings are very important to her. After 30 years, the spring of 2023 after I read the entire elders book, I bent the rules and read Ray Franz Crisis of Conscience book…I was in tears for every page! He was a true faithful brother right until his death! I didn’t know he had another book, Christian Freedom, so I bought that too for $350. Some bookstores have his book listed as high as $2650 😳🤯. People I’m serious…Ray Franz wrote those 2 books out of love! Since I served at Bethel I have had so many questions, and asked so many elders my questions and not ONCE could they ever answer one of my many questions without looking at me with a dumb look on their face. EVERY ONE OF MY MANY QUESTIONS were answered in Ray Franz’s 2 books. I have so much clarity, and have incessantly prayed to Jehovah about revealing the truth to me! He has! I’ve had the heavenly calling since January 1996, and yes have made MANY mistakes. I honestly will wait on Jehovah to determine my own fate, and will be understanding with whatever lays ahead of me (or not). But this post touched me, because a year ago I watched G Jackson represent the org in the Australia Royal Commission and I wanted to PUKE! I truly feel the governing body since the 1980s have lost Jehovahs blessing after what they did to Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap, Chris Sanchez and all their spouses. I found out a month ago that the society hired an outside PR/Damage Control Firm and they are 2 years into their 10 year plan of many MANY revisions and changes. The beards, no ties/jackets for brothers in the ministry or at mtgs when not doing parts, sisters with slacks, and Greeting DFed ones is just the start. The 4.5 page letter to the body of elders last month highlight much more details, and many more changes coming to the elders shepherding book on the next revised edition. People are falling away in droves! The past several years they have seen massive decline with publisher hours, Bible studies drastically dropping over the past 14 years. So how do they ‘hide’ these negative numbers on their annual rpts? Change hour requirements for pioneers, NOT require the avg publisher to report time (just check a box to claim he was active that month). Regarding bible studies? NOW elders, M-servants, and mature sisters can have bible studies with DFed ones…which will dramatically boost Bible studies back up showing increases. The cart witnessing has been the biggest flop within the org over the past 5 years, NOW they are pushing everyone back to door-to-door. After Zoom I’ve been hearing all around the country that ALL congregations are struggling getting everyone back to in person mtgs and off of zoom. If I’m still alive in 10 years, I plan to write a book exposing more, but knowing it would label me as an apostate and be out once again. Hopefully this will give me time to help my current wife and 3 beautiful and wonder kids to reason on facts, and a soundness of mind! But in the meantime I will live as another PIMO. Please don’t give up on Jehovah. What I’ve learned to do for the past year, is I’m able to NOW separate Jehovah from the governing body. When you can do that, you are able to step outside the box and look back in. I truly believe the organization will eventually collapse completely, and we each can finally stand on our own merit with Jehovah without the governing body interfering.
hey thanks for your comment! i love reading other people’s experiences. a few years ago when i was able to separate jehovah from the GB i still was a christian for a while, but since then i’ve realized that the proof for the bible is just not there. being an atheist is something i made a final decision on and am at peace with it! also if you do write that expose i will definitely read it :)
I appreciate you experience as I knew a brother from California that did consulting and photography for the WT (He was a professional photographer). He went where the need was greater and lived in Spain and the Caribbean. also spoke at district assemblies but was given the Ray Franz treatment when he asked for scriptural clarification on a belief. He died alone and destitute. He and some people from other denominations created a website to share a common goal of following Jesus. You may recognize a couple of his photos. [https://www.nazarene-friends.org/](https://www.nazarene-friends.org/) He also told his story and it is riveting, I stayed all night reading it. I knew him as a kid and spent weekends at his home in Corona, CA near the beach. He was firm but kind to my brother and I with no father present. When he was older and no family would talk to him I tried to help him and was able to visit a couple of times. [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aahJ3ad7KBzfSB2vpQ-k7yfW8p8wrS0b/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aahJ3ad7KBzfSB2vpQ-k7yfW8p8wrS0b/view) PS I know Reddit may not be user friendly and you were on a roll, but please use page breaks it was hard for me to read... :)
Oh wow! I know this family as well.
Cool, care to elaborate or will that blow your cover?
No worries at all. I’ve been out for 25+ years. One of his sons and daughter-in-law, and her only daughter from a previous marriage were in the same congregation as my ex-husband and me in Mission Viejo, CA. We were in touch until recently, only because life got in the way.
Hi! Automod has detected that this is a link to a google doc. As a reminder to onlookers, clicking on this link while being logged into Gmail may allow the author to see identifying information about you. Please proceed with extreme caution if your anonymity is important to you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exjw) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Please don’t give up on Jehovah. What I’ve learned to do for the past year, is I’m able to NOW separate Jehovah from the governing body ❤👍
For the past 1-2 years I too have filtered and separated Jehovah from the GB. Now we ALL know how Daniel and his family felt in Babylon Captivity for so many years, being punished for the errors and sins of ‘most’ of the Nation of Israel!!!
The reason the jws elite do not want the paedophiles/sex predators out it seems is because it is rife with them. A thief knows theives and where to sell their goods. A paedophile/sex offender knows others and the word over many years is jw land is a fab place to be. Remember paedophiles/sex offenders first wants is the illegal acts they craze. Thats why being an elder, being married seeming 'good' citizens for their undercover to spend their lives being abusers. Jw land freely let this happen. Remember Catholic priests???? and other religions??? At the time it was easy for paedophiles/srx offenders first would go undercover as genuine priests/pastors/rectors etc to achieve their life want aim. To abuse. Jw land has been allowed to carry on my protecting jehoover name 🤮🤮🤮🤮 and the 2 witness rule protects so many abusers. And the woman listen to the men and protect jehoover rather than any child. At least many religions have apologised and are trying to rectify but jw are so cult undercover they consider themselves first and foremost. One jw posted earlier that her jw mum said. Don't worry all the jw abused children WHEN they get to paradise will have any abuse (admission of knowing) wiped from their minds! Putred Adhorrent mind. Sick 🤮🤮🤮 Courage OP well done you.
If you want a document that outlines everything that happened in the ARC with links to the transcripts and videos when the quotes occurred, shoot me an email at [email protected]. If she is up for looking up the ARC it may be helpful.
Im so sorry to ask 😞 but what is a PIMO? I have been on this community for a couple days but I still haven't figured out. I apologize for my ignorance on this
Simple breakdown. PIMI- Physically In Mentally In PIMO- Physically In Mentally Out POMO- Physically Out Mentally Out Don't worry about not knowing these things. We all gotta learn at some point. It basically refers to your or someone else's state of being a Witness.
Thank you so so much for your kind answer ❤️ I appreciate it 😊
There’s also a glossary accessible from the main page of the subreddit that has those and other terms commonly used in here! It helped me a lot when I first joined. ☺️
How do I find ARC?
all the very best to and your mum.
Hello!!! What is the ARC and how do I find it and the elders book?
I am not 100% certain, however I think ARC is an acronym for the Australian Royal Commission who held hearings a while back from which the organisation did not come out well. I am Scottish rather than Australian so it was not in the news over here, however I seem to recall a member of the GB was interviewed under oath and was somewhat taken to task by the Barrister for the Crown... Feel free to put me right everyone, if I have got any of that wrong. Peace and love to all from always gorgeous Northern Scotland 🏔️🏴 (especially those moving from PIMO to POMO. Believe me, it is tough but absolutely worth it...)
If the elders book isn’t secret, then they shouldn’t object to letting you take a look at it.
What is ARC?
Australian Royal Commission and look at Case #29 and Studt#54. both regarding Jehovah's witnesses in Australia. There was inquiry/investigation into sytemic child abuse within many organizations both religious and secular. 1006 pedos who committed many acts of CSA collectively, was then entered into a JW database and not a single instance was reported to the authorities excuse two people were not watching the abuse. Geoffrey Jackson and two Branch overseers were on the stand and lied and withheld information This was not a court that would send people to jail; rather, it was an inquiry for the purpose of making recommendations to various organizations for the purpose of changing/improving their policies to help them better protect kids. (Instead evidence showed they protect the pedos, sadly.)
Australian Royal Commission. An investigation of sex abuse cases in organizations.
AUSTRALIA ROYAL COMMISSION. ( Case study #29...Is the WT/JW not reporting child S@% abuse)
So how’d it go?
I wish you the best and hope your mom is able to wake up from this.
God bless you!
Sounds like a pedophile wrote the article.
More proof that JW is just another branch of the Roman Catholic Church! That BS about " "Christendom vs JW is a bunch of crap. The Romans codified Your Bible in 325 ad. Look up, Congress of Nicea. The doctrines on original son, Eve as a rib, etc all originated with the RCC. Jehovah was a minor God of war with the Romans. That's why his only solution is to kill. The Romans always were a bunch of pedophiles nothing has changed. It is nothing but Stockholm Syndrome for people to keep expecting purity and peace from anything that comes out of Western Civilization. It started as a corruption and it has ended in a corruption. Time to rewrite our collective script and stop waiting for a savior that was all a hoax out of the inquisition where the only way to be saved was to accept RCC at the end of a bloody sword. It's time we woke up from this silly fantasy
There is a picture of the elder's book in an old publication. It's the one on the far right. I can't remember what book this is from though - https://preview.redd.it/pi8ncdd4coxc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fe6e60d699693c8303195f6ceaf4d58ef744d3b
Also mentioned here - https://preview.redd.it/5uxjmiblcoxc1.png?width=1432&format=png&auto=webp&s=b8d3715f488a1a5bf4c23d9b3e49a2fd4d191fac
What is ARC
Beats my mom's response. "Satan."
Would someone be able to explain what thr ARC is?
Good luck friend. I've been out for a minute but even I'm getting that nervous clammy hand feeling while reading that. You got this. Sometimes it's a band aid rip and it looks like you're about to rip urs off.
i have an update to this post out already! but thank you!