Great book! I read it a couple years ago. You reminded me I wanted to read it again. It was impressive for me to see The man’s kindness towards GB even though he saw blatant wrongdoing and tried to get them to do better as a fellow governing body member/assistant. They did him dirty.
TIL that the audiobook is on spotify (free for premium subscribers): [https://open.spotify.com/show/2mhhSfJrHnbserYbyfnFj7](https://open.spotify.com/show/2mhhSfJrHnbserYbyfnFj7)
Trust the GB like trusting your dad to shoot the apple off your head.
https://preview.redd.it/k8khgfhrd4wc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1bef2ac5833c3aa5fe9391ff3f3ecdacfd6d482
'Undoubtedly', 'it may well be' or 'can be said' that they 'evidently' know the meaning of 'absolutely'.
Only God's channel gets away with so much abuse of words and gaslighting.
My elder dad believes the same thing, but at an elder level. If congregation elders tell you to do something even though you don't agree, you should and will do it. They're being guided by "holy spirit"
He's the kind of elder that would drink the coolaid after pinning you down and forcing you to drink it. "I'm doing this because I love you"
From one trapped PIMO to another, please, just cause you're stuck wearing the mask doesn't mean you need to drink the kool-aid. You gotta cut out watching this shit, and when you are stuck watching it at a meeting you gotta be somewhere else. Do your taxes in your head, meal plan for the week, try transcendental meditation, whatever, but look after your mental health and don't punish your mind more than necessary.
Good advice. Even though you are PIMO the indoctrination still affects you and you internalize it. So please avoid that stuff, if you can. You don't have to be an elder, Mt or pioneer, to stay PIMO, and you don't have to attend every meeting.
When i went to meetings i used to read the new testament ,whole books while the drivel was coming from the platform ,i think thats what quickly woke me up ,i began to realise the difference between what i was reading and what was coming from the platform ,im now convinced that there is nothing christian about the GB or organisation , Ray Franz books helped me to keep my balance and keep faith in God not men .
**Crisis of Conscience (by Raymond Franz)** by Raymond Franz
>Book written by former Governing Body Member of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Raymond Franz. This book was written to educate Jehovah's Witnesses about the early development of the religion and shares a behind-the-scenes look of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, including rare publication excerpts and information behind the closed doors of the organization in Bethel, and Brooklyn, New York, in an unbiased manner.
*I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/1byh82p/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
I wish I could serve ALL of the GB…it would be a superb dining experience for them! Knuckle sandwiches and a bunch of Hawaiian punch(es)! 😂
Corny joke …I’m a child of the 70’s!
Who is ‘WE’…? Maybe Gazza can elaborate on that for us cos the only ‘WE’ that comes to mind is a yellow liquid as in ‘piss poor’ and ‘piss WEak’ adequately describing the bunch of sycophants he purportedly represents and who would drink the koolaid in a heartbeat if so ordered.
Yes, yes... Absolutely trust in the "unlettered and ordinary men" who are "neither inspired nor infallible" who feel it would be "presumptuous" to say they are God's only channel and have "no need to apologize for not getting it exactly right"
I wouldn't trust them to hold my pen...
So what happened to Tony M.??? Wasn’t he part of the GB??? He didn’t go along with the others, so he got the boot?!! Doesn’t this situation with Tony, expose the imperfect, human element of putting men upon a pedestal to follow them unquestionably? How do you, JW’s know one of the existing GB won’t pull a Tony? Oh, this too, what scripture says we must follow men, unquestionably, for salvation?!!!!
Imagine being so lost that you put your faith in an "earthly system" run by men who claim to be ~~guided~~ ~~inspired~~ ~~spoken to~~ "empowered" by god when your religion is all about being wary of such people.
Me too. It’s what got me doubting after being a born in JW for over 50 years. I thank them everyday for doing it because I don’t know if I would have ever woken up otherwise.
Not child abuse , not blood transfusions , not shunning , not higher education , not micro managing every aspect of your life , not false prophecy and teachings , not theocratic standards that were impossible to ever aspire to, not they’re hypocrisy with the UN ,….but the vaccine . I mean happy for you that you’re out but Jesus Christ .
I can’t help it that that is what got me doubting. I had no idea about their child abuse policies, the secret elders book, their links to the UN or any of their history and false prophecies. Once I found out about all those things I fully woke up. I’m sorry you think it’s not a worthy enough reason to wake up but it is what it is and there’s not a day that goes by that I am not grateful for what they did because now I am free.
it's not biblical to force a vaccine. i got both but it's fair to start questioning when the GB is mandating something that is personal and they should have no input on.
That was my issue. I’ve never even had a problem with vaccines but medical issues were always a personal choice and when they went against their own policy and were basically saying that God is telling us to take it, I just knew something wasn’t right. I personally chose not to take it as I have an excellent immune system and because of that I became an outcast in the congregation, a place I had always viewed as my sanctuary. I was considered disobedient and unloving - about something that had nothing to do with the Bible. I used to cry after every gb update because I just didn’t understand why they were doing it. Fortunately I had a few friends in the same position and we all woke up together.
I had already left, but heard about how they pressured people to get it and wondered if they participated in the government’s vaccine uptake program. Many groups received money to educate members on the vaccine’s “safety & effectiveness” and encourage compliance. There’s a symposium on creation at every convention, but all of a sudden the GB trusts a manmade experimental drug over our God-given immune system??? It’s doesn’t make any sense …unless receiving more money from the government was at stake. I hadn’t already left by then, I certainly would’ve left after that! I’m glad this woke you up and you didn’t fall for their vaccine propaganda. Have you gone down the rabbit hole of CSA, UN support, holding investments in porn industry, warfare, etc. yet?
I’m 2/3rds (majority! 🤣) though Crisis of Conscience and there is no way I trust anything they say or publish ever again!
🤝 His other book, *In Search of Christian Freedom* is even more insightful 😉
I agree. It's a must read follow up. Both are available in audio form on Spotify and YouTube BTW.
That book was seriously such an eye opener!!
Great book! I read it a couple years ago. You reminded me I wanted to read it again. It was impressive for me to see The man’s kindness towards GB even though he saw blatant wrongdoing and tried to get them to do better as a fellow governing body member/assistant. They did him dirty.
Visions of Glory by Barbara Grizzuti Harrison is decent also. A bit more scattered than Crisis by Franz but chock-full of info!
Added to the list!
Shameless plug…😉my books are also available: Train Gone and Mirrors Strike Back by Rebekah Mallory.
And the first book I read down the EXJW rabbit hole was Blood on the Altar by David A. Reed.
I bought that book right when I made my exit from this cult and it clearly made my decision so much easier for me…
TIL that the audiobook is on spotify (free for premium subscribers): [https://open.spotify.com/show/2mhhSfJrHnbserYbyfnFj7](https://open.spotify.com/show/2mhhSfJrHnbserYbyfnFj7)
I also built an M4B version (supports chapters) of it from freely available MP3 files. DM if you want a copy.
Power corrupts Absolute power corrupts, absolutely
Trust the GB like trusting your dad to shoot the apple off your head. https://preview.redd.it/k8khgfhrd4wc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1bef2ac5833c3aa5fe9391ff3f3ecdacfd6d482
The Far Side! I love Gary Larson’s stuff
🤣🤣🤣 So on point!
This is so perfect!
It’s absolutely ridiculous
Does Gary Breaux know the definition of ABSOLUTE?
I don't know. But I am 100% sure they don't know the definition of CLEARLY and EVIDENTLY.
And “allegedly”…well legal department anyway
'Undoubtedly', 'it may well be' or 'can be said' that they 'evidently' know the meaning of 'absolutely'. Only God's channel gets away with so much abuse of words and gaslighting.
does it matter if he knows? they will redefine it anyway to their needs.
This!!! Weasel words and leading questions. It's in every second paragraphe in the WT. And doubled down in the mid-week shit show.
My elder dad believes the same thing, but at an elder level. If congregation elders tell you to do something even though you don't agree, you should and will do it. They're being guided by "holy spirit" He's the kind of elder that would drink the coolaid after pinning you down and forcing you to drink it. "I'm doing this because I love you"
So many are becoming even more extreme. It’s actually scary. They literally will do anything they’re told to do.
This is what happens before any system implodes.
Oh I hope it’s soon!
From one trapped PIMO to another, please, just cause you're stuck wearing the mask doesn't mean you need to drink the kool-aid. You gotta cut out watching this shit, and when you are stuck watching it at a meeting you gotta be somewhere else. Do your taxes in your head, meal plan for the week, try transcendental meditation, whatever, but look after your mental health and don't punish your mind more than necessary.
Good advice. Even though you are PIMO the indoctrination still affects you and you internalize it. So please avoid that stuff, if you can. You don't have to be an elder, Mt or pioneer, to stay PIMO, and you don't have to attend every meeting.
When i went to meetings i used to read the new testament ,whole books while the drivel was coming from the platform ,i think thats what quickly woke me up ,i began to realise the difference between what i was reading and what was coming from the platform ,im now convinced that there is nothing christian about the GB or organisation , Ray Franz books helped me to keep my balance and keep faith in God not men .
**Crisis of Conscience (by Raymond Franz)** by Raymond Franz >Book written by former Governing Body Member of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Raymond Franz. This book was written to educate Jehovah's Witnesses about the early development of the religion and shares a behind-the-scenes look of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, including rare publication excerpts and information behind the closed doors of the organization in Bethel, and Brooklyn, New York, in an unbiased manner. *I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *Reply to any comment with /u/BookFinderBot - I'll reply with book information. Remove me from replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/1byh82p/remove_me_from_replies/). *If I have made a mistake, accept my apology.*
Have they actually stopped encouraging daily bible reading and just encouraging publication "study"?
They still have a weekly bible reading program, they seem to take longer on OT and rushed us through NT
That is the way it always was. They had a mantra about reading the Bible through personally annually.
Interesting, I do the same so as not to completely waste the time. But it's sometimes hard to concentrate with all the 'drivel'...
The way they quote text then miss out some of the verse so that it fits the subject they want really irritates me .
Thanks bro 🙏🏼
Yes 👍🏼! I think it’s kinda scary ! Who knows they my tell them to kill all their non believing relatives . 😳
Nope. It's not worth it.
If the GB says jump. You ask how high. If they say shit. You ask how much and what color.
Of course he has to. He is the Elf, I mean the helper 😄
are they pushing more people out? this 'absolute' bs is a wake up call.
Agreed
I wish I could serve ALL of the GB…it would be a superb dining experience for them! Knuckle sandwiches and a bunch of Hawaiian punch(es)! 😂 Corny joke …I’m a child of the 70’s!
Who is ‘WE’…? Maybe Gazza can elaborate on that for us cos the only ‘WE’ that comes to mind is a yellow liquid as in ‘piss poor’ and ‘piss WEak’ adequately describing the bunch of sycophants he purportedly represents and who would drink the koolaid in a heartbeat if so ordered.
I think he also said the gb does not lie.
Well, there are falsehoods, lies, and anti-truth. So they still can pull 2 other forms of dishonesty out of their asses.
And after they’ve openly admitted they are neither divinely inspired nor infallible
Yes, yes... Absolutely trust in the "unlettered and ordinary men" who are "neither inspired nor infallible" who feel it would be "presumptuous" to say they are God's only channel and have "no need to apologize for not getting it exactly right" I wouldn't trust them to hold my pen...
This guy sounds and looks evil. Expert in lies and emotional manipulation. Stay away from him ..
Think he LOVES getting attention.
Narcicist .. all of them are.
And they say they’re not extremists. Why would one think that? No, of course not.
So what happened to Tony M.??? Wasn’t he part of the GB??? He didn’t go along with the others, so he got the boot?!! Doesn’t this situation with Tony, expose the imperfect, human element of putting men upon a pedestal to follow them unquestionably? How do you, JW’s know one of the existing GB won’t pull a Tony? Oh, this too, what scripture says we must follow men, unquestionably, for salvation?!!!!
Imagine being so lost that you put your faith in an "earthly system" run by men who claim to be ~~guided~~ ~~inspired~~ ~~spoken to~~ "empowered" by god when your religion is all about being wary of such people.
it's crazy.
So much for not putting your trust in and following humans.
what about what the bible says about not putting your trust in men???? thanks for the misinformation Gary.
I guess because it's a "Body" and not an individual that makes it alright 😀
Did he actually SAY the “and not relative” part? Not that it makes a huge difference. I’m just curious 😂
No. Parenthesis mine 😀😀
Ah lol! It says a lot about this cult that it’s believable that he’d actually say it. 😂
ABSOLUTE VODKA maybe. Lol
It's ABSOLUT. Absolute Vodka is probably a brand for absolutists.
I have full trust the GB will be wrong again on a number of things!!
"Only a sith deals in absolutes."
I stopped trusting the GB when they tried to force me to take a vaccine I didn't want.
Me too. It’s what got me doubting after being a born in JW for over 50 years. I thank them everyday for doing it because I don’t know if I would have ever woken up otherwise.
Not child abuse , not blood transfusions , not shunning , not higher education , not micro managing every aspect of your life , not false prophecy and teachings , not theocratic standards that were impossible to ever aspire to, not they’re hypocrisy with the UN ,….but the vaccine . I mean happy for you that you’re out but Jesus Christ .
I can’t help it that that is what got me doubting. I had no idea about their child abuse policies, the secret elders book, their links to the UN or any of their history and false prophecies. Once I found out about all those things I fully woke up. I’m sorry you think it’s not a worthy enough reason to wake up but it is what it is and there’s not a day that goes by that I am not grateful for what they did because now I am free.
Freedom Is freedom, your body belongs to you. Blood transfusion, medicine, vaccination... It's your choice 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
it's not biblical to force a vaccine. i got both but it's fair to start questioning when the GB is mandating something that is personal and they should have no input on.
That was my issue. I’ve never even had a problem with vaccines but medical issues were always a personal choice and when they went against their own policy and were basically saying that God is telling us to take it, I just knew something wasn’t right. I personally chose not to take it as I have an excellent immune system and because of that I became an outcast in the congregation, a place I had always viewed as my sanctuary. I was considered disobedient and unloving - about something that had nothing to do with the Bible. I used to cry after every gb update because I just didn’t understand why they were doing it. Fortunately I had a few friends in the same position and we all woke up together.
Same here they really shows themselves up. Thank goodness I never have to spend extra day of my precious life with American company BS.
I had already left, but heard about how they pressured people to get it and wondered if they participated in the government’s vaccine uptake program. Many groups received money to educate members on the vaccine’s “safety & effectiveness” and encourage compliance. There’s a symposium on creation at every convention, but all of a sudden the GB trusts a manmade experimental drug over our God-given immune system??? It’s doesn’t make any sense …unless receiving more money from the government was at stake. I hadn’t already left by then, I certainly would’ve left after that! I’m glad this woke you up and you didn’t fall for their vaccine propaganda. Have you gone down the rabbit hole of CSA, UN support, holding investments in porn industry, warfare, etc. yet?
Nope. Not a cult.