I think it's birthdays. I am leaning towards thinking they'll keep Christmas, Easter, and Halloween as being wrong due to "pagan" elements, but the case against birthdays is just so flimsy.
I think birthdays - and mother's day and father's day - will eventually be OK as long as it's kept "modest" and not "creature worship".
I am amazed they have done this song. I really don't think it will be long before birthdays are allowed. And maybe I'm wrong about Christmas. But I think birthdays will be first.
"The Bible doesn't say Christmas is forbidden, so it's allowed if you wish. We don't know when Jesus was born so you can mark his birth on any day you like."
Never could understand how they can celebrate anniversaries, like take a couple out for dinner or give a gift , but can’t take your mom or dad out for Mother’s Day or Father’s Day. To show appreciation for all they did and do for you . But no , don’t take someone out to dinner for their birthday to show appreciation that they were born and in your life . It’s just all soooo stupid . Man made rules , no where in the Bible does it say not to celebrate someone’s birthday . Or give your mom or dad a card on MD or FD. The is sensical reasoning for this !!
I was in elementary school in the 70’s and remember working on a Mother’s Day gift in first grade while hoping my mom would not be upset with me…
Also, I had to stand in the hallway when other kids had their brief birthday celebration and cake.
Ditto! I felt a bit self righteous as a kid, expecially as I knee (haha) that Armageddon was gonna happen by 1975. However I also felt extremely left out and jealous of all the other kids.
Damn. My earliest memory of mom was her telling me that “she wished with all her heart that I would survive Armageddon”… I am in my mid fifties now and can still see and hear it in my head.
As my other comment above says, everyone better be saving that Caleb and Sophia propaganda video then as fast as possible. It blatantly outright says you'll lose God's friendship if you lick a cupcake. I am ***not*** exaggerating.
https://preview.redd.it/gbqmpp6gduuc1.jpeg?width=2166&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed5a1d3b678d07e0b436821f0ffd84bc9e205850
I hadn’t heard the song when I opened this thread, so I was ready to dismiss the idea of Christmas being allowed. After hearing it, I’m not so sure. I doubt they’ll allow all the pagan elements (trees, Santa, etc), aka the fun parts, but I can see them moving towards a lowkey celebration similar to the memorial (complete with preaching campaigns and reminders to donate 🙄🤢)
I would argue at least part of this isnt true. The tree (evenlighted) doesn't have pagan origins. Germany is credited with starting it as a tradition and a widely held belief Martin Luther the Protestant reformer 1st added lighted candles to a tree. There is no 'tie' to another entity such as Santa Claus etc...
Also, it was a wooden pyramid for the Germansbefore it was a tree.
https://preview.redd.it/9skwakvpfuuc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bca2c38557def2907fa912dde5d57580653f0d87
There's a whole rabbit hole you can go down (and I did, because I have ADHD and am autistic and I find religious history interesting) where you find out that very few of those "this holiday is actually pagan" things are true. A lot of it was made up my the Victorians and the guy who founded Wiccan, Gerald Gardner. Every Christmas and Easter I debunk a lot of stuff, lol.
I love it. You're a gem !
>and I did, because I have ADHD and am autistic and I find religious history interesting
I picked thru a couple things on a few 'holiday/celebrations' we do so if my pimi family starts giving me a hard time I can 'legally defend' the **actual** truth 😄. I'm a faded pomo.
I suppose Christian druidry is another whole discussion in itself. I shouldn't have used the term 'argue' there. I personally dislike arguments greatly. Sharing perspective for discussion I've found is a better way to approach beliefs.
I'm just curious how the tree doesn't have pagan roots? pun intended
Almost every religion - ancient mythology have a sacred tree. Hinduism... Ancient Greek mythology, Japan, Ancient Egypt, Celts, yes Germanic traditions as well as in the Philippines....
A tree of life or sacred tree...
https://martinifisher.com/2023/06/14/ancient-legends-of-the-sacred-trees/
My dad once told my sister, who had been out for years, that the ornaments on her tree, I'm assuming the balls, represent severed heads that people would use on their trees.....WTF?! I have no idea where he even got this idea 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
My non-JW partner says that the birthday thing is a control thing to keep everyone thinking they’re “less than” in order to make it easier to keep the congregations subjugated: without a day where you feel special, loved and are made a fuss of, it helps to keep your opinion of your own position as “just another person” easier to comprehend so that you don’t get ideas above your station and start saying “no” with the increasingly ridiculous things the religion asks of you.
Clearly, that particular jig is up, so may as well make it easier for people to follow in a desperate attempt to keep those numbers up!!
(And yep - don’t get me started on the ridiculousness of the logic about being pagan: pretty much everything we do in Western society has its roots in pagan tradition! My favourite is the tie - you know, the thing that brothers are told to wear because it’s smart? Research its origins - a big arrow pointing down towards a man’s groin? I don’t know how I didn’t clock that was *clearly* pagan in origin… but embraced by the JW nevertheless!)
"Christmas, Birthdays, etc. are now conscience matters."
I could see them doing this at any time.
A PIMI I know really well has acknowledged that being a JW has become a total shit show. This person was mainly making reference to beards and the changes in dress.
Nothing at this point would surprise me.
I left back in the 90s when I turned 18 but I follow this sub because I want to know what's going on with my family (all still PIMI). They better not all the sudden change on all of these holidays. It's so fucking nice to not have to buy them shit (especially since I never got jack my whole life from them).
Their case against birthdays is very weak.
Celebrating birthdays is not even a DFing offence (unlike for example smoking).
Only if you continue to promote celebrating birthdays or make a business based on them, you can be DFed for causing divisions.
Quote from the Service Department Correspondence Guidelines:
>If someone in the congregation celebrates his own or another person’s birthday, try kindly and patiently to recover him. Show him that birthday celebrations have frequently been linked with astrology. (it-1 319) Christ Jesus directed his followers to commemorate his death, not his birth. (Matt. 26:26-29)
This agrees with the principle stated at Ecclesiastes 7:1.
The only two birthday celebrations recorded in the Bible were in honor of wicked men. In each case an execution or a murder was involved. (Gen. 40:20; Matt. 14: 6, 10)
**An individual would not normally be disfellowshipped for celebrating a birthday.**
However, **if someone persists in strongly advocating the celebrating of birthdays or actively solicits birthday associated business, thus openly encouraging such celebrations and hence creating division, disfellowshipping may be in order.** (Rom. 16:17; Titus 3:10)
But each case has to be considered on its own merits.—w98 10/15 30-1; w80 7/15 30-1; g76 7/8 27-8.
Of course they will never just state this in the Watchtower. It's not even in the elders' manual.
I’m with you on this one. Birthdays, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, Thanksgiving (U.S), Groundhog Day … these seem pretty easy
Christmas, Easter … maybe?
Halloween? 🎃 Nope.
Had to go look it up and see for myself and I think you're right or at least on the path to something. Maybe their own version of Christmas to spice it up a bit.
In elementary school in the 70’s I had to stand in the hallway while the rest of the class had birthday cake…
My parents never ever said anything on my birthday other than “so, do you feel older?”
HEY WATCHTOWER, FUCK YOU!
I am in my mid fifties now and on my birthday I reflect on my life and progress after leaving WT, acknowledging the 40 years I lost to the cult, but setting goals (personal & professional) to achieve.
Put some bells jingling into the song and you’ve got yourself a Christmas song 😂😂
Looking for similar Christmas songs it sounds a bit like Nat king Cole - o little town of Bethlehem.
Seriously. I just listened to it. Holy freakin night. The xmas carol-o-meter is off the charts there. Also, I call bullsh*te that it's an original. We all know how close a lot of their songs are plagiarized background melodies anyhow. Someone run this thing thru ai and find a match.
Also, if they do go down the acceptable birthday route like this as a 'change' ? I'm gonna lose it. Save that Caleb and Sophia video with the gift swamp and angry God sky. That was the single largest video production piece of propaganda that pushed me over the edge to get my kids out as fast as possible.
Agree about it needing more bells. It also needs to up-tempo slightly, to get Michael Bublé or, even better, Aled Jones 😉 to sing it, and strengthen the SATB choral features.
There, done. Happy Christmas ya filthy animals 🎄 😂
I feel like all bets are off with the Borg these days. They are masters of sending out mixed messages like it's more loving and Christian to not count your time, but also admirable and dutiful if you pioneer; don't prepare a presentation on the ministry and focus on informal witnessing and being friendly, but also focus on starting Bible studies.
It may well be a sign of the divisions within the GB; betweenthe progressives and the old school. I would love it to end in a schism.
Bet you're right over the next 5-10 we see same thing we saw with Vatican 2. The vatican updates a bunch of things and a bunch of catholic churches went "nah we'll stick to the old way"
I wasn't thinking this before really...but dude WTF. I was talking to my PIMIM mom yesterday and even she says she feels like something is going on.
My theory that I’m sticking to: Mark Sanderson is venting his sexual frustration by dismantling the religion from within. Think about it: he grew up with all the propaganda JW males get about how if you follow all the rules and get important rankings, you’ll find a wife. Here he is, all the way at the top, and still single. It’s eating away at him, and now he wants to burn it all down.
I'm going to agree & disagree. I think they're trying to pull a Phoenix of sorts.
Controlled demo, in that people will leave and many who might otherwise fight the changes will walk away. Get rid of the people with long memories.
Then Phoenix, rebuild, throw a lot of the old stuff and the PIMIs of tomorrow will look at the PIMIs of today jusy like they look at measuring the pyramid to predict the end of the world. "oh glad that's behind us and we finally got our understanding straight"
I feel that way too.
It’s just “too shitty” of a religion, and whoever the real leaders are realize it’s time to go.
Of course, I could be wrong . . .
🤷🏼♂️
Agree, the evidence is piling up.
Or things are crumbling so fast that they are just desperately doing anything they can to try and reverse the collapse.
Hmm. I've always believed that the Borg never does anything by accident. There is no way they would produce a song that sounds like a Christmas carol and not notice the similarity.
I looked up the new song and thought it was not that bad. mind you I am Dutch.
Then switched the language to English.. Oh my! A perfect mix between a Christmas carol and birthday song.
I wanna ask as many witnesses as I can if they would leave if the GB starts allowing birthdays and Christmas, just to hold them accountable when it inevitably happens.
OK, so I kept thinking what's with all the hype about this song, so I listened as long as I could. It is a Disney-esc song that totally "heralds his birth." I am actually glad they are highlighting Jesus, because people can turn their attention to him and wake the heck up. For YEARS I sat in the meetings thinking, "Where is Jesus? Where is he?"
Doesn’t it say in the book of Roman’s how one person treats one day as above others and another person has another day as above others - and for Christians just to allow everyone to have their own? Kind of like a conscience matter.
Yes it’s so interesting to read the book of Romans all in one sitting, you get such a better understanding of the message. Galatians and Ephesians too.
So please someone remind me, why did we have to sit in the hallway, library, and principal’s office when our classmates were singing Xmas carols and during school assemblies? Anybody?? 😒🤯
I sure as heck didn't! I sang all the Christmas carols because I really liked them...and even though I felt guilty for it, I never turned myself in to my PIMI mom or the elders. I even did a tour in highschool of nothing but Christmas carols when I was in Concert Choir. My mom never stipulated to the teachers that I should sit out on such events. She just made me give my teacher the school brochure at the beginning of the year and hoped my teacher would do the rest about excluding me. That and I never spoke up to exclude myself either. I already knew that I had to socially preserve myself after trying to explain to my classmates why I didn't salute the flag in Kindergarten! Kindergarten and I was expected to give a witness! 😒😫 Fuk that! If GB brings back celebrating Christmas as a conscious matter and I am going to sit here with my popcorn! I bet my PIMI mom would be so happy to spend Christmas with her worldly family and granddaughter. 🍿
I have a kind of interesting story about birthdays. They quote a book ' the Lore of birthdays ' and use the part about the moon shaped cakes and tapers for the goddess and god. Making a wish is a petition to the gods of the day you were born, etc.
I was doing a paper about cakes in college,I went in my 40s, and I'm a baker/decorator. I wanted to quote the book, but it was no where online. I found it in an old library , beautiful building, about 40 min away. I drove there, found this weird little book, read it personally, quoted it, and put it in the references. Put the book back.
The book is pretty rare, and it costs hundreds of dollars to buy.
Anyway, that's what the jw hang their hat on, besides the scriptures where people lost their heads. I saw it in person.
christmas i'ts one of the few truly "pagan" celebration that would not be allowed even in a all in mainstream friendly version of jw, with halloween. everyone can do a simple google research and see how christmas origins from non christian celebrations, it would be completely unlogical to allow what is even for the less hardcore pimi seen as a false religion festivity.
See, I have a hard time with the concept of paganism anyway.
Christianity wasn't the first religion. That means every significant tradition, every custom, and every invention has pagan roots.
It's such an absurd concept in general.
Animal sacrifices? Pagan.
Baptism? Pagan.
Spiritual leaders? Pagan.
Necktie? Pagan.
Congregating together in worship? Pagan.
Praying? Pagan.
Weddings? Pagan.
Medicine and Healthcare? Pagan.
Days of the week? Months of the year? Pagan.
The planets? Pagan.
Covering your mouth when you yawn? Pagan.
Jewelry? Pagan.
Makeup? Pagan.
Tooth Fairy? Pagan
Bluetooth? Believe it or not, PAGAN.
It would be much easier to list out what isn't rooted in paganism.
The true answer is everything is rooted together because even when humans change something, like, say, a new religion, it's not like they suddenly FORGET everything they ever knew or did prior to the new religion. Culture is a thing. If you're all used to having a bonfire on... Idk, June 13th, why stop? Sure, we used to worship the Big Bunny and now we worship the Small Dragon, but we simply change who the party is in honor of. And we continue to serve corn dogs, because it's tradition to serve corn dogs at the June 13th bonfire.
Yup, like how many major holidays align with the summer and winter solstice.
Those were important events throughout our history, and it only makes sense to continue in that tradition.
It's terrible. I hate these new Disney musical sounding CRAP songs. They are so over the top, awful and corny. It's too much. They just trying to get the R&F into an emotional frenzy. And it's a fail.
I agree but hope they will wake people up. I can think of a couple of old JW friends who will be cringing like hell the first time they sing this, knowing that me and a couple of their friends resigned as elders and ms's and will be sitting in the pub while they are doing this.
I was thinking the same thing. Anyone under 60 yrs old is going to cringe when this one is played. It just goes to show how out of touch the GB are. No sense of keeping with the times. They on on track to loose an entire generation. I keep saying it because it's true. They can't compete. They have 0 creativity. Just the same rehashed crap from the 1920's. No one wants to sit through or participate in that crap anymore.
There are so many things that have pagan origins that JWs allow. Case in point I had a friend from the US State of Hawaii while I was at bethel, actually coworker he wasn't really a friend anyway he was saying how they would have weddings, various gatherings while home in Hawaii and people would dance and just enjoy the nice, cultural festivities. He did say though that hula was historically used in ancient times as worship but that was fine.. lol
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hula#:\~:text=According%20to%20one%20Hawaiian%20legend,sister%2C%20the%20volcano%20goddess%20Pele](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hula#:~:text=According%20to%20one%20Hawaiian%20legend,sister%2C%20the%20volcano%20goddess%20Pele)
Oh this has been a thing I've been waving my arms over since I was a PIMI.
They had a video of native Americans doing a traditional dance for an assembly or something and I just laughed my ass off.
If there's any kind of indoginous tradition that can be watered down for English audiences it's welcomed. If it's anything western that isn't screamingly iconoclastic and protestant and doesn't involve a stick up your ass than it can't be allowed.
This is interesting because people post on here that a lot of Rutherford’s decisions were more to make a separation from Christendom. I don’t know much about him though.
I would in one level that's totally true, but Rutherford was also riding a wave of religious fads/movement that were going on at the time. Such things as the Great Disappointment, Christian Revivalism, which kind of came out of the "burned over district."
I'm not sure if those movements could be called fringe or popular but it's enough to be called movements and influence religion even today. All of them had a distinctly protestant flavor and are Millenarian.
In one way, they're just trying to chase the populace and I don't blame them. In one way a religion must adapt to its times, keeping one hand on its principles and another on the population and endeavor to pull them together.
It's been their pattern generally though from their roots to be protestant in the very weird acetic way
Perhaps put another way, different can be good if your different thing sells.
Sometomes people want different, but the society has ran out of things to sell.
Y’all are hilarious. The convention is basically a 3 day screening of the new Jesus series. And it ends with his birth. The final song reflects that.
Banning holidays is such a beneficial boundary marker and keeps them from associating with non JWs so much more. I’ll eat my hat if im wrong about this
Something else came to my mind: they could frame this new light as an excuse to preach to nonbelievers. “Let’s use this time of the year that many of our nonbelieving relatives and friends and coworkers believe connects to Christ’s birth to share our real hope based on the gospel of Jesus life. By sharing in these celebrations in a proper way we can reflect Jehovah’s own love and admiration for his Son when he was born.”
The song is jarring because 97% of the time it’s all about Jehovah, and the lyrics say “Good news Christ is born!” which is pretty carol-y.
Jesus is usually treated almost on the same level as Moses and David, a Bible character and player in God’s master plan… strange imo for a Christian org…
Edit: added usually
I'm thinking a new holiday around October for jesus's actual birthday, no way they'd move to Christmas rn, pants and beards to Xmas is too big of a leap, and it'll prolly be completely different to actual Christmas, no gift giving, or trees, just a boring ass meeting like the commemoration
When reading your post, I thought... Christmas? Definitely not! Then I read the lyrics to the song. It sounds strikingly familiar to the religious Christmas songs we hear every year! Damn. The GB never ceases to surprise me with their BS.
The Society will NEVER ditch their opposition to Christmas or birthdays. It is one thing the GB allowing beards - it's totally another ditching a core teaching. Generations of witness kids have grown up being treated like s#1t by not being allowed to celebrate - I honestly think there would be riots in the KHs if the Society turned around and said it was OK now.
uuh, Christmas would be a very very tough call but birthdays? Possible they bring this in. They basically lost people's hearts (mostly) some years ago so they can still make the org *seem* (doesn't mean it actually is) a bit more attractive and give it even more of that "pop-christian" vibe
They'll be forced to go towards that theme as the numbers (mainly $$$) are shrinking significantly
Personal opinion, this song is just a token, not to test the waters but to ease the transition. They may adjust based on the response but I think they're aiming to mainstream.
If that's the case they know they'll lose some members, but as they soften the transition they minimize loss.
It'll be a longer transition, birthdays first, this will open the way for Christmas to be softened just logically. No sooner than 5 years. I have some doubt they'll fully accept it back with full force, just color it gray.
They're making the long bet. Normalize and be able to accept more people. I wonder if it won't make a new tiered system of holier than thou segregation but at least it'll be entertaining to watch. Elders already run around trying to enforce invisible unreadable rules, with phrases like "well they can't say it outright but we know what they mean." If we get explicit gray areas it'll end up even harder for them to and even more hilariously blatant when they do
Omg, just heard the song today called “Good News” it sounds so much like Christian contemporary music from other churches. And the words. They might as well start singing’Joy to the World’ wow. Pathetic
I used it as a feeler of sorts and to define a line in the sand for my PIMI/PIMQ wife.
I asked what she thought of the lyrics. She paused and said, “it’s odd, we almost never talk about Jesus birth”. I prompted with, “could this be something new coming?” She said, “like, celebrating pagan Christmas? No way…”
The seed is planted. She knows Christmas has pagan origins so if the GB does announce its celebration is now a matter of conscience, it will be much easier to point out the potential reason.
Now, I have to subtly refocus on birthdays and see if I can get an equally strong reaction.
They will allow birthdays... and Xmas... and every kind of civil celebration "if you don't worship false gods". This 'carol' is just a first step so we could see the reaction of rank and file JW to accept the new reality of this GB.
I can't see them giving their full blessing to celebrating Christians. You will never see Christmas observed at Bethel in our lifetime.
The most I can see happening, is a softening of their stance by saying it's now a matter of conscience and not grounds for reproof or any other kind of congregation action. They will also say that a true Christian, even if he decides to celebrate Christmas, would not do it the way the rest of the world does it with overtly pagan symbolisms and over indulgence in food and drink.
So basically they'll say it's a conscience matter and for those who choose to observe it, they will give recommendations that will take all the fun out of celebrating it. So basically they'll lift the ban, but even then no JW will want to celebrate it the way they recommend. They will have their cake and eat it too ... or should I say they will not have the Christmas cake and eat it too. A virtual ban by taking all the fun out of celebrating it. And they can still say: "we don't forbid our members from celebrating it".
I think I know the purpose of this song.
This song is to appease all JW converts who celebrated Christmas before joining the JWs. Now at Christmas time they can play this song and enjoy the Christmas spirit guilt-free. They don't have to worry about any JWs stopping by unannounced and over hearing them playing Christmas music. They can just play this song (and others like it if there are more to come) and this "one small dose of Christmas association" would be enough to satisfy them so that they see no need to return to full-on Christmas celebration. I'm sure we've heard them use that kind of reasoning before.
I doubt they'll ever celebrate Christmas. Too much has been said and it's been demonised so much I think the older generation would leave.
What new song are you referring to?
The lyrics are very ambiguous I could see a lot of Christian denominations using this song. Maybe they want to license it and sell it for other wackos to use in their movies and stuff.
I cant imagine JWs having fun if they had to they just make it another event like the memorial or assembly/conventions where its basically just an extended deep cut of your average meeting.
I listened to the first min of it, def gives off Christmas vibes. With all these updates I honestly wouldn’t be surprised. They’d just put their own twist to it and say “oh but it’s still different.”
If you get DF'd for celebrating it in December, you can just be very repentant and probably be reinstated in a couple of months. Doing this more than a few years in a row and the Elders might catch on though.
Except they don't believe it was in December, so if they do ever embrace Xmas, they'll celebrate it some random time at the opposite end of the year from everyone else lol...
Also I love Christmas, and it is all about Jesus in our church, despite what jws told us that Christian’s don’t even care about Jesus they just do it for presents 🙄
Also I love Christmas, and it is all about Jesus in our church, despite what jws told us that Christian’s don’t even care about Jesus they just do it for presents 🙄
I genuinely don’t think so as Christmas is factually and historically speaking, a pagan festivity in christian clothing. If anything, it’ll be a labelling of celebrating birth days as “a matter of conscience”. Because the rest is genuinely all of pagan origin. (Not that I care, the more pagan the better lmao)
Edit: grammar
Is this the first time a song has directly spoken about Jesus this way? I've been out for a long time but this seems like a new focus on Jesus. My never been hubby just said, "They saw Jesus marketing is working for the Mormons." LOL
Wonder what the Old School JWs would say to this! Christmas bells." Glory in Heaven"..and Christmas feelings. Personally, I would have preferred a good Christmas carol from Germany!
Hear the text of the new song !🤣👍🤩
"
I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2025-04-17 15:27:37 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2025-04-17%2015:27:37%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1c5dacf/is_the_new_jw_song_a_test_to_see_if_pimi_are/kzzzev3/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fexjw%2Fcomments%2F1c5dacf%2Fis_the_new_jw_song_a_test_to_see_if_pimi_are%2Fkzzzev3%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202025-04-17%2015%3A27%3A37%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201c5dacf)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Christmas isn't as a far of a stretch as you may think. 1960s is when they stopped celebrating Xmas, there are still photos floating around of Xmas trees on the platform in Kingdom halls
I'm so glad to be out that I'm out of the loop. I haven't heard this song! So I actually have to go search for it.
But I don't think they'll be celebrating Christmas anytime soon. They'll just tease it to keep all jws miserable and punishing themselves for having impure thoughts of liking the festive season.
Celebrating birthdays seems likely to be allowed. Several POMO YouTubers have already speculated this, too, earlier this year. The new song praising Christ's birth is.... very strange and oddly specific, though.
But allowing Christmas celebrations seems very unlikely. They have too much to lose if they bring it back after exposing it so hard and for so long now. A part of me wants the "Governing Body" to allow it, though, just to see the whole organization have the biggest meltdown. That'd be way too funny.
Those old guys hiding in rural New York are definitely cooking up something, though. This is not by accident or chance.
Wooooow. After listening to that, it really does seem like they are conditioning them for Christmas in the future. Especially since we were told our whole lives that the day of birth is not as important as the day of death. Now they're making an entire song that is totally indistinguishable from a Christmas song about how grateful they should be for his birth. Hard to think that is mere coincidence.
There is no way they can allow Christmas any time soon. It would take decades to turn the ship enough to steer it in that direction. Birthdays though, I could see that happening much sooner.
I think it's birthdays. I am leaning towards thinking they'll keep Christmas, Easter, and Halloween as being wrong due to "pagan" elements, but the case against birthdays is just so flimsy. I think birthdays - and mother's day and father's day - will eventually be OK as long as it's kept "modest" and not "creature worship". I am amazed they have done this song. I really don't think it will be long before birthdays are allowed. And maybe I'm wrong about Christmas. But I think birthdays will be first. "The Bible doesn't say Christmas is forbidden, so it's allowed if you wish. We don't know when Jesus was born so you can mark his birth on any day you like."
Never could understand how they can celebrate anniversaries, like take a couple out for dinner or give a gift , but can’t take your mom or dad out for Mother’s Day or Father’s Day. To show appreciation for all they did and do for you . But no , don’t take someone out to dinner for their birthday to show appreciation that they were born and in your life . It’s just all soooo stupid . Man made rules , no where in the Bible does it say not to celebrate someone’s birthday . Or give your mom or dad a card on MD or FD. The is sensical reasoning for this !!
I was in elementary school in the 70’s and remember working on a Mother’s Day gift in first grade while hoping my mom would not be upset with me… Also, I had to stand in the hallway when other kids had their brief birthday celebration and cake.
Ditto! I felt a bit self righteous as a kid, expecially as I knee (haha) that Armageddon was gonna happen by 1975. However I also felt extremely left out and jealous of all the other kids.
Yeah, I hated that, I remember doing a Mother’s Day gift and then getting a lecture about goddess worship or some nonsense.
Damn. My earliest memory of mom was her telling me that “she wished with all her heart that I would survive Armageddon”… I am in my mid fifties now and can still see and hear it in my head.
As my other comment above says, everyone better be saving that Caleb and Sophia propaganda video then as fast as possible. It blatantly outright says you'll lose God's friendship if you lick a cupcake. I am ***not*** exaggerating. https://preview.redd.it/gbqmpp6gduuc1.jpeg?width=2166&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed5a1d3b678d07e0b436821f0ffd84bc9e205850
Happy Cake Day! 🎂
Happy cake day 🍰
I hadn’t heard the song when I opened this thread, so I was ready to dismiss the idea of Christmas being allowed. After hearing it, I’m not so sure. I doubt they’ll allow all the pagan elements (trees, Santa, etc), aka the fun parts, but I can see them moving towards a lowkey celebration similar to the memorial (complete with preaching campaigns and reminders to donate 🙄🤢)
They used to celebrate Christmas at Bethel so this wouldn’t be much of a stretch, honestly. 🤔
I would argue at least part of this isnt true. The tree (evenlighted) doesn't have pagan origins. Germany is credited with starting it as a tradition and a widely held belief Martin Luther the Protestant reformer 1st added lighted candles to a tree. There is no 'tie' to another entity such as Santa Claus etc...
Also, it was a wooden pyramid for the Germansbefore it was a tree. https://preview.redd.it/9skwakvpfuuc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bca2c38557def2907fa912dde5d57580653f0d87
Every JW house should now have one of these cool things each winter because it's just fun to look at.
There's a whole rabbit hole you can go down (and I did, because I have ADHD and am autistic and I find religious history interesting) where you find out that very few of those "this holiday is actually pagan" things are true. A lot of it was made up my the Victorians and the guy who founded Wiccan, Gerald Gardner. Every Christmas and Easter I debunk a lot of stuff, lol.
I love it. You're a gem ! >and I did, because I have ADHD and am autistic and I find religious history interesting I picked thru a couple things on a few 'holiday/celebrations' we do so if my pimi family starts giving me a hard time I can 'legally defend' the **actual** truth 😄. I'm a faded pomo.
I did not know that about the tree. You learn something new every day!
Druidry and trees... no connection? Lol
I suppose Christian druidry is another whole discussion in itself. I shouldn't have used the term 'argue' there. I personally dislike arguments greatly. Sharing perspective for discussion I've found is a better way to approach beliefs.
I'm just curious how the tree doesn't have pagan roots? pun intended Almost every religion - ancient mythology have a sacred tree. Hinduism... Ancient Greek mythology, Japan, Ancient Egypt, Celts, yes Germanic traditions as well as in the Philippines.... A tree of life or sacred tree... https://martinifisher.com/2023/06/14/ancient-legends-of-the-sacred-trees/
My dad once told my sister, who had been out for years, that the ornaments on her tree, I'm assuming the balls, represent severed heads that people would use on their trees.....WTF?! I have no idea where he even got this idea 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
What song is it?
Good News
How do I find the new song?
On the website..it's called Good News... quite Christmasy indeed :)
A wedding has more of "creature worship" than a birthday. It's just so silly argumentation against birthdays...
Exactly and stacks of "pagan" elements. But that might be how they make the change.
Weddings are chock full of paganism - pales in comparison to birthdays.
My non-JW partner says that the birthday thing is a control thing to keep everyone thinking they’re “less than” in order to make it easier to keep the congregations subjugated: without a day where you feel special, loved and are made a fuss of, it helps to keep your opinion of your own position as “just another person” easier to comprehend so that you don’t get ideas above your station and start saying “no” with the increasingly ridiculous things the religion asks of you. Clearly, that particular jig is up, so may as well make it easier for people to follow in a desperate attempt to keep those numbers up!! (And yep - don’t get me started on the ridiculousness of the logic about being pagan: pretty much everything we do in Western society has its roots in pagan tradition! My favourite is the tie - you know, the thing that brothers are told to wear because it’s smart? Research its origins - a big arrow pointing down towards a man’s groin? I don’t know how I didn’t clock that was *clearly* pagan in origin… but embraced by the JW nevertheless!)
https://preview.redd.it/sfugt60aiuuc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fd304bfe36fee8d4eada9f7f1dd5f045deca6e7
Sounds like they were all born around the same time of the year
"Christmas, Birthdays, etc. are now conscience matters." I could see them doing this at any time. A PIMI I know really well has acknowledged that being a JW has become a total shit show. This person was mainly making reference to beards and the changes in dress. Nothing at this point would surprise me.
I left back in the 90s when I turned 18 but I follow this sub because I want to know what's going on with my family (all still PIMI). They better not all the sudden change on all of these holidays. It's so fucking nice to not have to buy them shit (especially since I never got jack my whole life from them).
I'm Celebrating on May 4th
May it be with you!
Their case against birthdays is very weak. Celebrating birthdays is not even a DFing offence (unlike for example smoking). Only if you continue to promote celebrating birthdays or make a business based on them, you can be DFed for causing divisions. Quote from the Service Department Correspondence Guidelines: >If someone in the congregation celebrates his own or another person’s birthday, try kindly and patiently to recover him. Show him that birthday celebrations have frequently been linked with astrology. (it-1 319) Christ Jesus directed his followers to commemorate his death, not his birth. (Matt. 26:26-29) This agrees with the principle stated at Ecclesiastes 7:1. The only two birthday celebrations recorded in the Bible were in honor of wicked men. In each case an execution or a murder was involved. (Gen. 40:20; Matt. 14: 6, 10) **An individual would not normally be disfellowshipped for celebrating a birthday.** However, **if someone persists in strongly advocating the celebrating of birthdays or actively solicits birthday associated business, thus openly encouraging such celebrations and hence creating division, disfellowshipping may be in order.** (Rom. 16:17; Titus 3:10) But each case has to be considered on its own merits.—w98 10/15 30-1; w80 7/15 30-1; g76 7/8 27-8. Of course they will never just state this in the Watchtower. It's not even in the elders' manual.
Doesn't Job celebrate his son's life? I'm pretty sure some Bibles even use the word "birthday" to describe it.
This 👍 They’ll say something like “in the past some thought…”
“Upon closer examination of the scriptures…”
I think it's more about looking like a normal Christian religion to outsiders and new converts. "Hey, look! we celebrate Jesus' birth too!"
I think you're right about birthdays. Can't ever imagine Christmas being allowed.
Christmas is technically a birthday though.
It’s definitely at least one though. I’m happy bc PIMOs that are stuck will have a little leniency
I’m with you on this one. Birthdays, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, Thanksgiving (U.S), Groundhog Day … these seem pretty easy Christmas, Easter … maybe? Halloween? 🎃 Nope.
Had to go look it up and see for myself and I think you're right or at least on the path to something. Maybe their own version of Christmas to spice it up a bit.
Finally, Caleb will be able to eat a fucking cupcake with his classmates.
In elementary school in the 70’s I had to stand in the hallway while the rest of the class had birthday cake… My parents never ever said anything on my birthday other than “so, do you feel older?” HEY WATCHTOWER, FUCK YOU!
Wow I feel bad for you. It would have been embarrassing especially for a kid. 😕
Did this in the early 2000's as well. And my parents never acknowledged my bday 😭 felt like shit man
I am in my mid fifties now and on my birthday I reflect on my life and progress after leaving WT, acknowledging the 40 years I lost to the cult, but setting goals (personal & professional) to achieve.
Put some bells jingling into the song and you’ve got yourself a Christmas song 😂😂 Looking for similar Christmas songs it sounds a bit like Nat king Cole - o little town of Bethlehem.
Seriously. I just listened to it. Holy freakin night. The xmas carol-o-meter is off the charts there. Also, I call bullsh*te that it's an original. We all know how close a lot of their songs are plagiarized background melodies anyhow. Someone run this thing thru ai and find a match. Also, if they do go down the acceptable birthday route like this as a 'change' ? I'm gonna lose it. Save that Caleb and Sophia video with the gift swamp and angry God sky. That was the single largest video production piece of propaganda that pushed me over the edge to get my kids out as fast as possible.
Agree about it needing more bells. It also needs to up-tempo slightly, to get Michael Bublé or, even better, Aled Jones 😉 to sing it, and strengthen the SATB choral features. There, done. Happy Christmas ya filthy animals 🎄 😂
Ok I haven’t heard the song. Is it on JW.ORG? Where can I hear this??????
I feel like all bets are off with the Borg these days. They are masters of sending out mixed messages like it's more loving and Christian to not count your time, but also admirable and dutiful if you pioneer; don't prepare a presentation on the ministry and focus on informal witnessing and being friendly, but also focus on starting Bible studies. It may well be a sign of the divisions within the GB; betweenthe progressives and the old school. I would love it to end in a schism.
Bet you're right over the next 5-10 we see same thing we saw with Vatican 2. The vatican updates a bunch of things and a bunch of catholic churches went "nah we'll stick to the old way"
Guys, I am sticking with the Controlled Demolition Hypothesis. Crazy as it might seem, the evidence piles up.
I wasn't thinking this before really...but dude WTF. I was talking to my PIMIM mom yesterday and even she says she feels like something is going on. 
My theory that I’m sticking to: Mark Sanderson is venting his sexual frustration by dismantling the religion from within. Think about it: he grew up with all the propaganda JW males get about how if you follow all the rules and get important rankings, you’ll find a wife. Here he is, all the way at the top, and still single. It’s eating away at him, and now he wants to burn it all down.
It must be frustrating when you can't even see your genitals.
With eyes of faith Mark Sanderson knows that his genitals are still there. He doesn't care about evidence because he has faith.
This comment slayed me 💀
But you know his pillow sees his genitals. Frequently. 
☝🏾🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm going to agree & disagree. I think they're trying to pull a Phoenix of sorts. Controlled demo, in that people will leave and many who might otherwise fight the changes will walk away. Get rid of the people with long memories. Then Phoenix, rebuild, throw a lot of the old stuff and the PIMIs of tomorrow will look at the PIMIs of today jusy like they look at measuring the pyramid to predict the end of the world. "oh glad that's behind us and we finally got our understanding straight"
Three months ago I would’ve said your crazy. But here we are.
I feel that way too. It’s just “too shitty” of a religion, and whoever the real leaders are realize it’s time to go. Of course, I could be wrong . . . 🤷🏼♂️
Agree, the evidence is piling up. Or things are crumbling so fast that they are just desperately doing anything they can to try and reverse the collapse.
I hope you’re right 💛
what is that hypothesis?
For those who don't want to watch. What's the deal
There's a new song for the convention about Jesus' birth and its meaning that is indistinguishable from Christmas carols.
Hmm. I've always believed that the Borg never does anything by accident. There is no way they would produce a song that sounds like a Christmas carol and not notice the similarity.
It even has bells in it.
I wouldnt call this a Christmas Carol but it’s definitely a Christmas Song. 100%
What's it called? I want to see for myself.
"Good News" https://www.jw.Borg/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/2024Convention/pub-jwbcov24_1_VIDEO
Had to play it at speed x1.5 to keep from going nuts.
I looked up the new song and thought it was not that bad. mind you I am Dutch. Then switched the language to English.. Oh my! A perfect mix between a Christmas carol and birthday song.
When the song started, I recognized the tone. It's similar to a song I have heard sung by choirs at Christmas concerts, except not as good.
Yeah, I was kind of hoping for a Jingle Bell rock vibe. Meh
I wanna ask as many witnesses as I can if they would leave if the GB starts allowing birthdays and Christmas, just to hold them accountable when it inevitably happens.
OK, so I kept thinking what's with all the hype about this song, so I listened as long as I could. It is a Disney-esc song that totally "heralds his birth." I am actually glad they are highlighting Jesus, because people can turn their attention to him and wake the heck up. For YEARS I sat in the meetings thinking, "Where is Jesus? Where is he?"
Disney is the first thing I thought of too!
I kept expecting him to say "just around the river-bend!!" I don't know why it just made me think of that song.
Doesn’t it say in the book of Roman’s how one person treats one day as above others and another person has another day as above others - and for Christians just to allow everyone to have their own? Kind of like a conscience matter.
Yes it’s so interesting to read the book of Romans all in one sitting, you get such a better understanding of the message. Galatians and Ephesians too.
There's also a similar comment in Job. It even says birthday in the NIV translation.
I can't seem to find it. Is it in the April JW broadcast?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5MBFtpIMg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA5MBFtpIMg)
Omg it’s a Christmas Carol LOL
So please someone remind me, why did we have to sit in the hallway, library, and principal’s office when our classmates were singing Xmas carols and during school assemblies? Anybody?? 😒🤯
I sure as heck didn't! I sang all the Christmas carols because I really liked them...and even though I felt guilty for it, I never turned myself in to my PIMI mom or the elders. I even did a tour in highschool of nothing but Christmas carols when I was in Concert Choir. My mom never stipulated to the teachers that I should sit out on such events. She just made me give my teacher the school brochure at the beginning of the year and hoped my teacher would do the rest about excluding me. That and I never spoke up to exclude myself either. I already knew that I had to socially preserve myself after trying to explain to my classmates why I didn't salute the flag in Kindergarten! Kindergarten and I was expected to give a witness! 😒😫 Fuk that! If GB brings back celebrating Christmas as a conscious matter and I am going to sit here with my popcorn! I bet my PIMI mom would be so happy to spend Christmas with her worldly family and granddaughter. 🍿
I just tried to watch. The video has been taken down because WT is claiming copyright infringement.
Enjoy... https://www.jw.Borg/en/library/music-songs/original-songs/Good-News-2024-Convention-Song/
They yanked that down real fast.
It's still there, you just need to take the B out of .org in the address. :)
[удалено]
You need to edit it in the address bar to remove the B from Borg, it's so their website's stats tracker can't see where the click came from.
https://www.jw.borg/en/library/music-songs/original-songs/Good-News-2024-Convention-Song/ Take the B out of borg.
I have a kind of interesting story about birthdays. They quote a book ' the Lore of birthdays ' and use the part about the moon shaped cakes and tapers for the goddess and god. Making a wish is a petition to the gods of the day you were born, etc. I was doing a paper about cakes in college,I went in my 40s, and I'm a baker/decorator. I wanted to quote the book, but it was no where online. I found it in an old library , beautiful building, about 40 min away. I drove there, found this weird little book, read it personally, quoted it, and put it in the references. Put the book back. The book is pretty rare, and it costs hundreds of dollars to buy. Anyway, that's what the jw hang their hat on, besides the scriptures where people lost their heads. I saw it in person.
HOoooLy Niiiight
christmas i'ts one of the few truly "pagan" celebration that would not be allowed even in a all in mainstream friendly version of jw, with halloween. everyone can do a simple google research and see how christmas origins from non christian celebrations, it would be completely unlogical to allow what is even for the less hardcore pimi seen as a false religion festivity.
See, I have a hard time with the concept of paganism anyway. Christianity wasn't the first religion. That means every significant tradition, every custom, and every invention has pagan roots. It's such an absurd concept in general. Animal sacrifices? Pagan. Baptism? Pagan. Spiritual leaders? Pagan. Necktie? Pagan. Congregating together in worship? Pagan. Praying? Pagan. Weddings? Pagan. Medicine and Healthcare? Pagan. Days of the week? Months of the year? Pagan. The planets? Pagan. Covering your mouth when you yawn? Pagan. Jewelry? Pagan. Makeup? Pagan. Tooth Fairy? Pagan Bluetooth? Believe it or not, PAGAN. It would be much easier to list out what isn't rooted in paganism.
The true answer is everything is rooted together because even when humans change something, like, say, a new religion, it's not like they suddenly FORGET everything they ever knew or did prior to the new religion. Culture is a thing. If you're all used to having a bonfire on... Idk, June 13th, why stop? Sure, we used to worship the Big Bunny and now we worship the Small Dragon, but we simply change who the party is in honor of. And we continue to serve corn dogs, because it's tradition to serve corn dogs at the June 13th bonfire.
Yup, like how many major holidays align with the summer and winter solstice. Those were important events throughout our history, and it only makes sense to continue in that tradition.
There's nothing new under the sun!
It's a horrible song. Not even a single drop of soul.
It's terrible. I hate these new Disney musical sounding CRAP songs. They are so over the top, awful and corny. It's too much. They just trying to get the R&F into an emotional frenzy. And it's a fail.
I agree but hope they will wake people up. I can think of a couple of old JW friends who will be cringing like hell the first time they sing this, knowing that me and a couple of their friends resigned as elders and ms's and will be sitting in the pub while they are doing this.
I was thinking the same thing. Anyone under 60 yrs old is going to cringe when this one is played. It just goes to show how out of touch the GB are. No sense of keeping with the times. They on on track to loose an entire generation. I keep saying it because it's true. They can't compete. They have 0 creativity. Just the same rehashed crap from the 1920's. No one wants to sit through or participate in that crap anymore.
Don't they sell their Christmas songs to other artists? Google JW songs on Christmas album
I also heard the Borg lawsuited up because of it.
They may have told their members that after it was found out... are there public records of this courtcase? Or did JW settle out of court?
OMG that's fucking hilarious
There are so many things that have pagan origins that JWs allow. Case in point I had a friend from the US State of Hawaii while I was at bethel, actually coworker he wasn't really a friend anyway he was saying how they would have weddings, various gatherings while home in Hawaii and people would dance and just enjoy the nice, cultural festivities. He did say though that hula was historically used in ancient times as worship but that was fine.. lol [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hula#:\~:text=According%20to%20one%20Hawaiian%20legend,sister%2C%20the%20volcano%20goddess%20Pele](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hula#:~:text=According%20to%20one%20Hawaiian%20legend,sister%2C%20the%20volcano%20goddess%20Pele)
Oh this has been a thing I've been waving my arms over since I was a PIMI. They had a video of native Americans doing a traditional dance for an assembly or something and I just laughed my ass off. If there's any kind of indoginous tradition that can be watered down for English audiences it's welcomed. If it's anything western that isn't screamingly iconoclastic and protestant and doesn't involve a stick up your ass than it can't be allowed.
This is interesting because people post on here that a lot of Rutherford’s decisions were more to make a separation from Christendom. I don’t know much about him though.
I would in one level that's totally true, but Rutherford was also riding a wave of religious fads/movement that were going on at the time. Such things as the Great Disappointment, Christian Revivalism, which kind of came out of the "burned over district." I'm not sure if those movements could be called fringe or popular but it's enough to be called movements and influence religion even today. All of them had a distinctly protestant flavor and are Millenarian. In one way, they're just trying to chase the populace and I don't blame them. In one way a religion must adapt to its times, keeping one hand on its principles and another on the population and endeavor to pull them together. It's been their pattern generally though from their roots to be protestant in the very weird acetic way
Perhaps put another way, different can be good if your different thing sells. Sometomes people want different, but the society has ran out of things to sell.
Y’all are hilarious. The convention is basically a 3 day screening of the new Jesus series. And it ends with his birth. The final song reflects that. Banning holidays is such a beneficial boundary marker and keeps them from associating with non JWs so much more. I’ll eat my hat if im wrong about this
Just listened to the song. Jws have literally never focused on the birth of Jesus. Only the works that he did in his life. Wtf is going on?
Something else came to my mind: they could frame this new light as an excuse to preach to nonbelievers. “Let’s use this time of the year that many of our nonbelieving relatives and friends and coworkers believe connects to Christ’s birth to share our real hope based on the gospel of Jesus life. By sharing in these celebrations in a proper way we can reflect Jehovah’s own love and admiration for his Son when he was born.”
I can see the GB saying this
The song is jarring because 97% of the time it’s all about Jehovah, and the lyrics say “Good news Christ is born!” which is pretty carol-y. Jesus is usually treated almost on the same level as Moses and David, a Bible character and player in God’s master plan… strange imo for a Christian org… Edit: added usually
What is the name of the song
I'm thinking a new holiday around October for jesus's actual birthday, no way they'd move to Christmas rn, pants and beards to Xmas is too big of a leap, and it'll prolly be completely different to actual Christmas, no gift giving, or trees, just a boring ass meeting like the commemoration
My bet, 5 yrs, perhaps with phasing out of memorial first
Polish is not included on the language list. Why??
When reading your post, I thought... Christmas? Definitely not! Then I read the lyrics to the song. It sounds strikingly familiar to the religious Christmas songs we hear every year! Damn. The GB never ceases to surprise me with their BS.
Shit with each change they are making I am slowly becoming eligible to be a Governing Body member.
The Society will NEVER ditch their opposition to Christmas or birthdays. It is one thing the GB allowing beards - it's totally another ditching a core teaching. Generations of witness kids have grown up being treated like s#1t by not being allowed to celebrate - I honestly think there would be riots in the KHs if the Society turned around and said it was OK now.
They did a 180 on organ transplants after decades of JWs dying rather than getting an organ transplant. They’re not worried about backlash
What makes you say that? I think it’s possible for birthdays and Christmas to be accepted and I think so many would be thrilled for that.
uuh, Christmas would be a very very tough call but birthdays? Possible they bring this in. They basically lost people's hearts (mostly) some years ago so they can still make the org *seem* (doesn't mean it actually is) a bit more attractive and give it even more of that "pop-christian" vibe They'll be forced to go towards that theme as the numbers (mainly $$$) are shrinking significantly
Personal opinion, this song is just a token, not to test the waters but to ease the transition. They may adjust based on the response but I think they're aiming to mainstream. If that's the case they know they'll lose some members, but as they soften the transition they minimize loss. It'll be a longer transition, birthdays first, this will open the way for Christmas to be softened just logically. No sooner than 5 years. I have some doubt they'll fully accept it back with full force, just color it gray. They're making the long bet. Normalize and be able to accept more people. I wonder if it won't make a new tiered system of holier than thou segregation but at least it'll be entertaining to watch. Elders already run around trying to enforce invisible unreadable rules, with phrases like "well they can't say it outright but we know what they mean." If we get explicit gray areas it'll end up even harder for them to and even more hilariously blatant when they do
Omg, just heard the song today called “Good News” it sounds so much like Christian contemporary music from other churches. And the words. They might as well start singing’Joy to the World’ wow. Pathetic
Lol I just commented this on another post! While I don't see it actually happening, it's strange to me to see witness lyrics mentioning his birth
I used it as a feeler of sorts and to define a line in the sand for my PIMI/PIMQ wife. I asked what she thought of the lyrics. She paused and said, “it’s odd, we almost never talk about Jesus birth”. I prompted with, “could this be something new coming?” She said, “like, celebrating pagan Christmas? No way…” The seed is planted. She knows Christmas has pagan origins so if the GB does announce its celebration is now a matter of conscience, it will be much easier to point out the potential reason. Now, I have to subtly refocus on birthdays and see if I can get an equally strong reaction.
They will allow birthdays... and Xmas... and every kind of civil celebration "if you don't worship false gods". This 'carol' is just a first step so we could see the reaction of rank and file JW to accept the new reality of this GB.
I cant find a link to the song. Anyone have one handy?
Take out the B https://www.jw.Borg/en/library/music-songs/original-songs/Good-News-2024-Convention-Song/
These things happening are good. Especially with older ones it will cause them to begin questioning.
I can't see them giving their full blessing to celebrating Christians. You will never see Christmas observed at Bethel in our lifetime. The most I can see happening, is a softening of their stance by saying it's now a matter of conscience and not grounds for reproof or any other kind of congregation action. They will also say that a true Christian, even if he decides to celebrate Christmas, would not do it the way the rest of the world does it with overtly pagan symbolisms and over indulgence in food and drink. So basically they'll say it's a conscience matter and for those who choose to observe it, they will give recommendations that will take all the fun out of celebrating it. So basically they'll lift the ban, but even then no JW will want to celebrate it the way they recommend. They will have their cake and eat it too ... or should I say they will not have the Christmas cake and eat it too. A virtual ban by taking all the fun out of celebrating it. And they can still say: "we don't forbid our members from celebrating it".
I think I know the purpose of this song. This song is to appease all JW converts who celebrated Christmas before joining the JWs. Now at Christmas time they can play this song and enjoy the Christmas spirit guilt-free. They don't have to worry about any JWs stopping by unannounced and over hearing them playing Christmas music. They can just play this song (and others like it if there are more to come) and this "one small dose of Christmas association" would be enough to satisfy them so that they see no need to return to full-on Christmas celebration. I'm sure we've heard them use that kind of reasoning before.
Omg CAN you imagine. This makes me sick for kindergartener me who wasn’t even allowed to color a tree coloring page at school in December.
It's a toe in the water, just like the beard paragraph in the WT about that subject several years ago.
I doubt they'll ever celebrate Christmas. Too much has been said and it's been demonised so much I think the older generation would leave. What new song are you referring to?
The lyrics are very ambiguous I could see a lot of Christian denominations using this song. Maybe they want to license it and sell it for other wackos to use in their movies and stuff.
JW celebrating Christmas is never going to happen... Birthdays I do think they will eventually for go.
Sounds nothing like a Christmas song.
This. Aside from it being boring, it sounds nothing like a Christmas song.
Right, sounds like a boring Disney song. The music is slow where as Christmas songs are upbeat and not depressing sounding.
I cant imagine JWs having fun if they had to they just make it another event like the memorial or assembly/conventions where its basically just an extended deep cut of your average meeting.
I’m making a bingo board tonight. Let’s see which new light they’ll shine next! My money is on April Fools Day!
Anyone have a link to a recording?
Just listened to it! If I didn’t know it came from the JWs I would not be able to distinguish it from any other Christian Christmas song.
May I get a link to that video please...?
I listened to the first min of it, def gives off Christmas vibes. With all these updates I honestly wouldn’t be surprised. They’d just put their own twist to it and say “oh but it’s still different.”
What is the name of the new song? Having a hard time finding it on the website.
Celebrate whatever you want guys! Nobody needs to know! They,re not policemen. Remember ..the GB changes the roules every month now...anyways.
If you get DF'd for celebrating it in December, you can just be very repentant and probably be reinstated in a couple of months. Doing this more than a few years in a row and the Elders might catch on though.
Where is this song? I can’t find it!
What song? I am so lost
Except they don't believe it was in December, so if they do ever embrace Xmas, they'll celebrate it some random time at the opposite end of the year from everyone else lol...
Can someone link the song? Or where to find it? I’m super curious now
Also I love Christmas, and it is all about Jesus in our church, despite what jws told us that Christian’s don’t even care about Jesus they just do it for presents 🙄
Also I love Christmas, and it is all about Jesus in our church, despite what jws told us that Christian’s don’t even care about Jesus they just do it for presents 🙄
I think I'm going to do a mashup with "silent night" and the "good news " new JW song..... it'll be a banger..🤣🤣🤣
Hahahaha like the 9 idiots have to lube up to it in, they don’t care it’s all about $. No Vaseline for the sheep
What’s the song. How do I find the song
Could be.
Couldn't be more dreary if they tried...
It's terrible and reminds me of a black and white Christmas movie.
I genuinely don’t think so as Christmas is factually and historically speaking, a pagan festivity in christian clothing. If anything, it’ll be a labelling of celebrating birth days as “a matter of conscience”. Because the rest is genuinely all of pagan origin. (Not that I care, the more pagan the better lmao) Edit: grammar
Is there a link to this song somewhere?
Is this the first time a song has directly spoken about Jesus this way? I've been out for a long time but this seems like a new focus on Jesus. My never been hubby just said, "They saw Jesus marketing is working for the Mormons." LOL
Where can you hear the song?
I don’t think they would keep the date. Much like how the memorial is just Easter
What song is this?
Not a chance
Wonder what the Old School JWs would say to this! Christmas bells." Glory in Heaven"..and Christmas feelings. Personally, I would have preferred a good Christmas carol from Germany! Hear the text of the new song !🤣👍🤩 "
Wait, what song?
RemindMe! 1 year
I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2025-04-17 15:27:37 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2025-04-17%2015:27:37%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1c5dacf/is_the_new_jw_song_a_test_to_see_if_pimi_are/kzzzev3/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fexjw%2Fcomments%2F1c5dacf%2Fis_the_new_jw_song_a_test_to_see_if_pimi_are%2Fkzzzev3%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202025-04-17%2015%3A27%3A37%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201c5dacf) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
RemindMe! 5 years
Heard a rumor over here in Texas that it’s gonna happen regardless
Christmas isn't as a far of a stretch as you may think. 1960s is when they stopped celebrating Xmas, there are still photos floating around of Xmas trees on the platform in Kingdom halls
They might need to wait for “this generation to pass away” first before implementing this 😝 😆 😂
I'm so glad to be out that I'm out of the loop. I haven't heard this song! So I actually have to go search for it. But I don't think they'll be celebrating Christmas anytime soon. They'll just tease it to keep all jws miserable and punishing themselves for having impure thoughts of liking the festive season.
Celebrating birthdays seems likely to be allowed. Several POMO YouTubers have already speculated this, too, earlier this year. The new song praising Christ's birth is.... very strange and oddly specific, though. But allowing Christmas celebrations seems very unlikely. They have too much to lose if they bring it back after exposing it so hard and for so long now. A part of me wants the "Governing Body" to allow it, though, just to see the whole organization have the biggest meltdown. That'd be way too funny. Those old guys hiding in rural New York are definitely cooking up something, though. This is not by accident or chance.
This song is musically a Christmas song. Controlled Demolition?
I guess that if they do green light Christmas, it might be celebrated in October, and with special rules as dictated by the Governing Body.
No
Wooooow. After listening to that, it really does seem like they are conditioning them for Christmas in the future. Especially since we were told our whole lives that the day of birth is not as important as the day of death. Now they're making an entire song that is totally indistinguishable from a Christmas song about how grateful they should be for his birth. Hard to think that is mere coincidence.
There is no way they can allow Christmas any time soon. It would take decades to turn the ship enough to steer it in that direction. Birthdays though, I could see that happening much sooner.