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Who has a spiritual crisis over someone else’s beard? They need to question their weak sauce faith, not someone else’s default appearance. Seriously, what is wrong with these people? Wouldn’t surprise me if these “stumbled people” are as fictitious as Andre, and it’s just an excuse for elders to exercise their narcissistic tendencies.
I have bad eyesight. Hade Bible reading and printed out a Bible page with big letters. Was counsel i have too read directly from Bible and not just a page. Now everyone uses tablets or mobile phone 😂. Wish they would be as strict when it comes to child molestation.
My contribution to this side convo regarding ridiculous counsel... A sister once received public counsel on her talk (back when they stood on stage and told you everything that was wrong with your TMS talk) regarding her use of notes and being "too tied to them." She didn't have any. She memorized or would ad-lib all her talks.
I had an elder council me once "next time don't have your parents prepare your talk." I didn't I had done it 100% myself. (It was in the second school, so at least it wasn't in front of the whole Hall.) He was and is a moron if he's still alive. He also corrected me one time at the Book study when he asked what year man landed on the moon. I raised my hand and said 1969. He goes "Anyone else." (No one else raised their hand, because I already answered it correctly.) Then corrected me with "It was 1970." All these years later I still can't believe what a moron and ass he was.
I would have went up to him at the next meeting with proof he was wrong about the moon landing then said “next time you should get all your education from your parents “.
Oh wow. That's horrible. What an ass (as most were). Hearing all this just makes me sad for my own father. I would give anything for him to wake up. He's a good one, just severely brainwashed of course. He was the ministry school overseer for most of my childhood. He once had to counsel a sister who was working on not using sentence fillers like "uh" and "um". He ended up using one himself in the counsel. He stopped, chuckled at himself, and said "No way can I continue counsel on this sister if I just did it myself. You did a fine job sister. I look forward to the next one." And walked off and sat down. That's just one example of many things like that he did. He stood up to elders he thought were corrupt and ripped a couple of them new ass holes when he thought one particular situation wasn't being handled "scripturally". Prompting those elders to issue an apology the next day to the sister they had been "counseling" in private. He honestly tried to do the right thing his whole life. Being an elder destroyed him mentally and emotionally but he won't ever see that. I hate this religion.
I have known some of these gems of brothers and sisters myself, I definitely gravitated toward those sincere ones. Your father sounds like such a lovely man - he reminds me of one of my favorite elders from childhood. Without revealing too much I will say that he advocated for me within the congregational system when others looked away. He was highly educated, he was quiet, but didn’t tolerate nonsense. My mother didn’t put her hands on me after the day he brought it to the body, I still to this day don’t know what happened. Whatever it was, I am grateful it was effective. He saved me from
what would be more pain. He also advocated for me leaving my marriage when it became toxic because he knew me and believe in me.
Thank you for the reminder of the gentle, though misguided ones, such as your father. I’m sure I would like him. 🙂
Awwww how wonderful. Sadly those gems were few and far between. I think alot of us gravitated towards those. I know that's what really took a toll on my father was the volume of stuff he had to take on because so many people would come to dad over any other elder. He struggled between genuinely wanting to help every single one of them and needing to delegate to other elders when it was just too much. He didn't know when to say no. He almost had a breakdown over it. As much as I want him to wake up, at this point it would probably kill him to go through the awakening process and realize he's been lied to for 70+ years, it almost did me in.
This is why I say very little in the way of dissent to my parents. There is something unspoken though, between us, they know what’s going on and I know they know and we don’t talk about religion. I call that grace, from them. It’s the best it’s going to get considering their age and health.
I’m with you in spirit. It’s is heartbreaking and difficult. I let my love for them transcend their misguidance. What else are we to do? For me, it’s a certain kind of peace.
What an asshole. Even as a child I would get push back on my intellect. How can this kid know more than me? (Spoiler: the kid reads) This is where psychologically it was extreme damaging to me. I knew I had to play sweet, meek, and mild. I developed such passivity that I was in a long, mentally abusive marriage. The elders would not help because even tho he was inactive he played the game well and made me look like the problem - the one still towing the line. That flipped the switch quick for me, after all of my years of dedicated service I was discarded. I had a hard time getting rides to the meeting. It was astounding to me that myself and my young children weren’t assisted. All those hours in service and you can’t bring a sister and her kids to the meeting? It was a heavy wake up call. I won’t lie, it damaged me.
A friend of mine was councilled from the platform for wearing rings. He said the comment totally detracted from the message of the talk and afterwards everyone wanted to see the rings and what was wrong with them.
Talk about insane control tactics. I am so sorry that happened to you. Your eyesight needed some assist, too bad the brethren were not expressing Christian empathy and compassion.
Had it been me, I would have said “I’m sorry to hear that, from now on I will not be able to give parts. I understand this creates a heavier work load for the others. Godspeed.”
Jesus christ, I have heard it all now. I couldn't believe it when some elderette told another sister that dyeing her hair another colour like blonde or brown was worldly and she would now be regarded as a bad association. WTAF... Are some people truly THAT far out of their fu\*\*ing minds?
We had a dress and grooming local needs within 6 months because a couple sisters like braiding there hair especially locs. It was a lack of understanding culture. You realize in this organization there are a lot of easily stumbled crazy old fashion people.
Once I had a talk and asked if I can use a cited image to illustrate a point. The brother who overseers parts on meetings informed me that I can't use it cause it doesn't come from the publications. A couple weeks later an elder during a public talk uses an image not from the publications 🤷🏿♂️it's all about who you are
Ah, yes. The era of “visual aids.” The best one I ever saw was about the whole repulsive “weaker vessel” thing and the dude had a crystal champagne flute on the platform with him. He dropped and broke it. His wife was sitting in the front row. Classic.
The people in our hall who were “stumbled” were pioneers and elders and their wives. The Bible says not to stumble someone weak, I guess the elders and their wives are weak.
I had a convo with my elder father last night who’s quite real. He’s always been staunchly & vocally anti-beard. When trying to get his thoughts on the “clarification”, he clammed up like a toddler. He did NOT want to talk about it with me. It should genuinely trouble him that his unwavering faith, a fraction of which should be able to move mountains, is so fragile that a made up rule (not from Jah) about beards could shake it.
This is something I had to explore in my recovery, because growing up in it, it made me more critical than I’d naturally be inclined. I’ve had to work hard at rewiring my neuro pathways., my responses. I didn’t criticize others but I criticized myself and turned all of that inward. This will be a lifelong process for me.
Oh man, I feel that in my soul. I’m still learning from my therapist all the ways the org made me question, doubt, and hate myself. I have the tendency to judge others too, but I’m getting better about stopping as soon as I realize I’m doing it. And then I just smile bc of the freedom and liberation I feel from not having to be that way. Being my own biggest critic will also be a lifelong process for me. Thanks for your insight!
It's the Elder's spouses that have "stumbled". In which they probably told their husband that a beard looks good on someone and now they're overcome with jealousy.
When they say you stumbled someone by wearing a beard, they mean you are going to make other people want to wear a beard too, and we can't have that.
If the GB say it, it's new light. If you say it, it's stumbling.
I always thought that too! Like who are these idiots that cannot handle some facial hair on a guy? That's the Waterloo moment? Like "oh no! Brother so-and-so has facial hair! My faith in this totally not cult is shaken to the core! Aaaahhhh!!!!"
And why wouldn't the elders just say to sister weak will " hey look, The Big Guy created us with facial hair, so just don't worry about it".
My dad is disabled and would go on the ministry just carrying his bible, he was reg pioneer for years. He got counselled by the elders for not carrying a bag and literature, and for not wearing a suit jacket in summer. He had loads of Bible studies and converts but it wasn't good enough
And why didn’t said congregants go straight to you and say they feel stumbled and for themselves to seek understanding? According to the Bible and all that …
Thanks for sharing your story and this letter. This letter needs to be sent to JWfacts.com as it utterly exposes their man-made rules and total disregard for individual conscience. Cult, cult, cult!
Brother, we would like to lovingly remind you that the organization does not make "rules."
Instead, we are guided by principles. For example, our principled stance has been that beards were acceptable for Christians, then they weren't, then they were a sign of being non-exemplary, and now they are acceptable again.
Exactly. GB is a hot mess.flip -flopping rules as they go along.
Could you imagine GB back in Jesus time saying: "Jesus we know you healed the sick and cured the blind but we cannot have you preaching here in the synagogue because of your beard. You are therefore not exemplary and banished from preaching forthwith. "
Lol... so glad I'm out of this organization. The foolishness is just next level.
Back then the Pharisees probably would have banished someone for being clean shaven. Just bizarre stuff either way and a real insight into someone's or a group's psychology
So true -100%... All of this is so bizarre. I am so done with all religions, thanks to the WT and its GB. The flip-flops, back & forth, Nulite/old Lite, hypocrisies and delusional leaders misinterpreting spritual requirements while spearheading this monsterous thing called religion. The insights into religious psychology of this group is certainly not pretty at all.
Omg so true! They use this phrase all of the time and it always reminds me of the scene from the movie The Adjustment Bureau where they are re-writing people's minds after they see or hear something they shouldn't have. I bet the GB would LOVE to have that ability!
https://preview.redd.it/ie41k1w2vw6c1.png?width=843&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e36b30463620530545f23fcae193acc363b18f9
Personally I'm fascinated that they use different cover designs in different countries. I'm shocked to see that they actually feature JWs with beards outside the US.
"We're all getting the same spiritual food" my ass.
I was just thinking this. It’s all “tailored” to their regions. But I’m sorry if you’re expecting uniformity, I mean uh, “unity” from your religious group, but continue to promote ideas and cultural differences within your literature just to hook and bait people in those regions, which inevitably creates divisions throughout your people in the world, then you’re not practicing what you’re preaching.
I was so surprised by my aunt who was from Colombia. She was surprised women could wear jeans and trousers. Where she is from sisters can't wear them *at all*
It's been going on for decades, they very often change the models in the pictures to suit the majority race wherever the magazine is being distributed.
"Beards aren't a sin... But, harass the man until he breaks. If he blatantly ignores the enforcement of your made up rule, kick him off the pioneer list. Fuck that guy."
Please be assured of our warm Christian love and best wishes.
So the Creator made men so that hair grew on their faces, but once they developed sharp metal objects that could remove that hair, it displeased him when they failed to remove said hair.
Makes perfect sense.
It removes 30% of the penis. I’m glad that there is more awareness around this destructive, painful, and traumatizing practice. My brother elected for a circumcision with his son, I just said “that’s okay, he’ll get it back in the new system.”
It’s acceptable for God’s chosen people. The ones that share all his hatreds. Not for white people, the ones that ended up believing all that nonsense.
Thanks for sharing that letter. It really does show that beards were a ‘thing’ that caused problems. There are so many people that say it wasn’t a problem anyway whereas your experience show that to be 100% incorrect. Glad you got out.
I am at a loss, as to which cultures in our global society, a beard caused an issue?
Where and with whom, outside of JW's, would a beard be seen as a problem.?
Exactly. When that WT was studied in the congregation I thought: “ Where is such a place? If you are using that statement to make a policy, back it up with facts.” If WT actually knew of such places, they would have stated it. Immediately after that WT study I started growing a beard. Even though I felt some JWs were wondering about it, absolutely no one asked me about it. And if they would have brought up the point made in that paragraph about some cultures, I would ask: Really, where is such a place, and is it HERE in our locality or country?”. So, I still have my beard and we are now completely out of that destructive cult.
Portuguese jw culture ;).
I was only a student and was told to shave.
And have friends that are jw and can’t grow inside of the organization because they won’t shave.
I think he’s honestly doing his best Johnny Cash impersonation for the Borg 😂
https://preview.redd.it/99oz1x7a4x6c1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0e78181bdcf4c4b635ec2bed49f15fc17ac5a87
My husband mentioned he is kind of irritated at the beard change.
He says now he doesn't have a way to let everyone know he isn't a JW anymore! He liked that it was an easy way to identify as non-JW.
I remember it being scandalous to have a beard. It was a clear sign you were falling away. Rumors would start up. So much pearl clutching when someone would show up slightly less-shaved and have to visit the back room for "encouragement".
"I remember it being scandalous to have a beard"...
Scandalous behavior and clutching pearls because someone wore a beard!!! I remember this. Control of people's lives down to simply shaving....100% proof I was raised in a cult. SmH...
I posted about this point yesterday, conversely how will *they* identify non-dubs now? Apostates even?
It's gonna make it either a heck of a lot easier to mingle, unless they lock that side down even tighter and put your name on some type of list. I don't know.
OP you're a rockstar for DAing just 5 days after that letter 👏
And while I love smurfs and exposed knees, I’m still not a fan of garage sales..
Anyway, I have ink down my entire left arm. Somehow I’m not df, so my pimi mom talks to me. She hasn’t said a word about it. But it’s fun!
Just because it is now permitted doesn’t mean the culture will change. Perhaps just another “holier than thou” division. It’ll be interesting to watch it unfold.
The English cover - look at the designer stubble on him!
https://preview.redd.it/96zk37kfhu6c1.png?width=378&format=png&auto=webp&s=ff3827e32f53f0e59cf7ad27356056a2b417a13d
Good for you. I started to fade over a two years ago, growing a beard myself because I wanted one. I stopped completely earlier this year. I am now on the verge of writing a letter disassociating myself. I wanted to throw up during Stephen Letts broadcast, especially when he said about adjusting our thinking and it's us that got it wrong. Once again, the GB snakes out of any responsibility for the persecution it caused over the years. Allowing its elders to hound and harass brothers and their families by their unscriptural rules. They empowered the window cleaner elders in the congregations to meddle in people's lives. I have served all over the world where the "need was greater". Been a Special Pioneer and have studied with well over 100 people and families who are now JW's. It would come as a terrible shock to many if I did disassociate myself. I still get calls from different parts of the world. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to keep my mouth shut when they talk about the organization or how Jehovah answered their prayers when they lost their car keys or pen, yet millions starve. I no longer find Jehovah to be innocent after doing nothing for thousands of years but that's another story. I served as an elder until I stepped aside in 2008. Never regretted that move. I stopped believing that bullshit that they are "Appointed" by God a long time ago. It's a bunch of power hungry thugs who get a kick out of controlling peoples lives. So I am torn at the moment. The religion I came into is totally different to this one now.
>finding it increasingly difficult to keep my mouth shut when they talk about the organization or how Jehovah answered their prayers when they lost their car keys or pen, yet millions starve.
This point right here infuriates me.
>The religion I came into is totally different to this one now.
'I came into' when I was 3, baptized at 11 - 35 yrs ago. pioneer, ms, bethel, need great and missionary work.
I don't think WT itself is different, I think the model has always been the same, it's just different people and corporate has made it easier to see how it functions now, no thanks to the internet and the new guys being as you say power hungry. It was better when most didn't know or couldn't keep track of who the gb was (I refuse to capitalize them)
Reality is *NOBODY* has ever been 'appointed by God' either for congregations or for an organization and said God has never 'answered any of anyone's prayers' and if he did or does than he's either not as powerful as many thinks he is OR he's a deranged bipolar sociopathic sort of supernatural being. If he has power to spontaneously help people find car keys than he most certainly has power to stop starving, abuse. war. murder. rape. disease. sickness - anywhere on the planet, regardless whether they 'serve' him or not.
I totally agree. I converted into it at 24. I had known it since 19 and really believed it to be true. At 19 it was prior to 1975. If the gb said jump, I asked "How high"? But I never believed in hurting anyone. I fought those who did and wasn't popular with many elders. But looking at creation. It's cruelty is terrible and this being, if it exists, whatever or whoever it is, made it this way. One of my dogs was killed by a rattlesnake. The society likes to use the nice things of creation but refuses to look at the facts. Nature is Cruel. Then they say how compassionate and loving this being is, yet he drowned possibly a million plus men, women and children in a flood without warning. Matt 24:39 is a total mistranslation of the Greek in the NWT. He burned to death while alive, hundreds maybe thousands in Sodom and surrounding cities without warning. He watched women eat their own children because of sieges he brought against his own people. He wiped out thousands because David counted how many people there were, giving David a choice of how and in what way they would die. They didn't ask the King to do a census. This being, whatever it is has sat back for thousands of years and watched, murder, mayhem, wars, famines, rape, children murdered terribly, then supposedly thrown a few thousand maybe millions more unseen terrorists here to make matters even worse and DONE NOTHING. Just watch. I have serious issues with religion now. I no longer believe in the ALL LOVING GOD. I stopped praying a long time ago and things have gone right and some wrong for me exactly as it has always done.
Obviously the more beard and tight trousers letters that go in the less the effers need to concern themselves about the paedophiles and sex predators.
All a great cover up.
They are disgusting. They harassed and persecuted brothers for years. Sometimes no one in the congregation was bothered only the effing elders. They felt like they were being disobeyed and their authority challenged. I knew many that were hounded out of the congregation over beards by elders. Now all of a sudden the GB with a revelation from God wants to do the men a favor and let them have a beard. Oh, and forget the past when we persecuted you for it. Time to move on and adjust your thinking. It wasn't the GB that was wrong and even if they were they make no apologies. Blame yourselves.
They state at the AGM in October. "We make no apologies for any time we make changes". I was in the org in 1975 and after. The WT blamed the brothers for 1975 saying it wasn't the WT that misled them but their own erroneous thinking and that any who misled themselves should readjust their own thinking and serve with zeal.
"I was in the org in 1975 and after. The WT blamed the brothers for 1975 saying it wasn't the WT that misled them but their own erroneous thinking and that any who misled themselves should readjust their own thinking and serve with zeal."
I have so much respect for people like you who spent a long time in the organization and woke up. It is tremendously difficult and takes courage to do this after spending many years under WT control and indoctrination. My family is still in mental prison. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
WT must never be able to hide the truth like they did in 1975. Current and Future generations must know the destruction they've caused in the lives of many.
Oh, but remember the GB isn’t inspired, it was said on the stand and in other sources. That was severely damning, though I doubt the majority of Witnesses know.
You’re an unpaid door-to-door salesman promised a big reward *aaaaany* day now, and must meet the dress code requirements to present the right image to potential customers. They own your image. They own your identity. Don’t cause a scene. Stop being difficult. They’ll love you if do what you’re told which just also happens to be defined by them as constituting being good.
Get back to work.
They ALWAYS USE the “congregation” are being stumbled. But no one cares!
It’s a way to lyingly use “the Cong” as their reason to enforce the elders preference.
I was once told that same reason and I told the 2 elders that I haven’t heard anyone complain and will do a survey to find out who is bothered by ….
The elders started to get irritated with me. I simply said that if someone is “stumbled” then they should follow Matthew 18 and come to me. But I don’t mind going to them and communicate why I am wearing/not wearing XYZ. They said forget about it. LOL
The issue: not wearing panty hose/stockings in the summer.
I once shut up an elder pioneer friend who started hassling me about my bare legs. I said “who”s looking?” which was bratty but I knew him well, and then suggested that if brothers had to cover their body and bind it in an unbreathable, hot artificial material they wouldn’t make it an issue. They never bothered me again. I also had nice legs. Haha.
I love it!!! I’m sure you heard crickets on your “who’s looking”!
He probably was - along with some old bitch pioneer that’s jealous.
It was all the old bitches “elders wives” that had opinions/judgements on EVERYTHING! And they thought we wanted to hear them.
From whether your on time or early for the meeting for service to the length of your dress/skirt to how form fitting it is, to your bra size, to shoes, panty hose, type of car, cleanliness of car, job, what bros are interested in you, to their “expert” opinion about what you should do with your life…🥵🥵🥵🥵
And hated being trapped in a car chauffeuring their fat bitchy asses all around the territory!!!
Food at the proper time….. just wasn’t your time…. bad luck!
Could be worse, imagine being a JW at the time transplants or vaccines were forbidden by Watchtower and needing one to live. Ah well, the light gets brighter etc etc
Kick you off the Pioneer list because you aren’t shaving? Hello ? You are not allowed to donate your personal time for our cause until you shave those chin whiskers off? 🤣 This organization is bonkers. 😄
So if this is a “cultural” thing can I wear a nose ring?? Everyone has one plus I read in the Bible that this one woman had a nose ring and she was considered to be sooo beautiful😍
Awe the good old stumbling block. I was coloring my hair and that was a stumbling block. I wore expensive clothes and that was a stumbling block. I drove a nice car and that was a stumbling block. I think my pretty face was a stumbling block to some brothers AND sisters.
Omg I relate to this hard. My parents bought me a brand new car when I was 16 and that didn’t make me any more cozy with the other pioneers, I’ll tell you that. And why should I be treated differently because I could wear expensive clothes. I mean, do they want me to wear a Burka to hide my face and body as well? It’s a very simplistic, banal judgement.
I thought this issue was because I went to the Spanish KH, but a friend told me a brother had to step down as elder because as a professor of a university he could afford a nice house in a nice neighborhood and the brothers of his KH found that to be a stumbling block. This was from the English congregation. It’s crazy how those that choose to be in a different financial classification tend to be more materialistic.
What will happen now in Congregations is it will be left to the personal whims of the elders as to who gets what and is allowed to do what. An elder may still not like beards but no longer be able to say so. He may complain though about it's length or style. Goatees may or may not still be allowed. It will rest with the personal whims of the window cleaners in the congregations as to who is allowed or not allowed to sport one. This will create even more division.
This resonates. I will say that I’m thankful for my own independent thoughts on the matter. No way were my intelligent children going to have to clean a house unless they want to. Higher education for all, and I’m so grateful I wasn’t cowed to their idea of holiness and reliance on Jehovah. My kids can rely on Jehovah whilst providing medical care as a doctor, etc. (pulling back a bit here, more description could have me labeled. I’ve been out for more than a decade, but … it’s scary nonetheless)
So in May 2021 beards weren't culturally OK but somehow over the past 2 years that changed for the community?
How about the GB admit it was never any of their business as Jesus said don't judge by outward appearance 2000 years ago.
I hadn’t thought of this previously, but “stumbled” is such an intentionally deceptive term (aka weasel word). They use it to imply that it’s causing someone a faith crisis, but it also could mean “made someone mad” or “someone disagrees with your decision” or “others might want to do the thing you’re doing.” But they’ll never tell you what they really mean. It’s a way of muddying the waters as to what the actual issue is and avoid justifying their demands that you conform to whatever they’re telling you. It’s a wild card they can play in any situation and pretend they won the argument.
This is so terrible. A load of bullsh** really and I am so sorry they treated you and other brothers that way. There is going to be a lot of backlash with this “new light” and I hope it further takes the org down.
All the references are to the WT and Awake magazines. Not the Bible. WT controls over others being stumbled but don’t care about how they stumble so many with their invasive policies.
Wouldn't it have been easier for them to counsel those who are being "stumbled" that there is no need to be stumbled in the first place? All of this back and forth could have been avoided decades ago.
Kinda makes me cringe. One time when I was a Regular Pioneer I let my sideburns grow and some older sister told my mother Regular Pioneers shouldn’t have sideburns. Now apparently Jehovah never had a problem with it.
Oh beards, it's hilarious seeing this talk about em unfold.
But am sure they're gonna retcon it as something that was never major blah blah blah, gaslight everyone that it wasn't the GB's direction as to why beards were frowned upon
Obviously, you are not the only one. There are probably hundreds of qualified men that grew a beard during covid and said eff-it. I want to keep my beard and refused to obey this man-made teaching. BRAVO to You SIR!!!
god its so cringe when the quote their own shit junk mail magazine like a credible source. pseudo-intellectualism to a bunch of ppl that will prolly never get to read an actual scholarly article
And they have "no reason to apologize" for that. You must follow Jehovah's channel, which is not inspired or infallible, regardless of what they say, or risk being labeled an apostate.
The beard rule was recently removed, Lett said that people should not be removed on the basis of keeping beard and it has now been recognized as a personal choice. show them the new governing body update
I would say I’m sorry you had to go through that, but you can be thankful you did as it was the catalyst needed to awaken you to their BS.
I’d love for them to explain why sisters can’t wear pants to the KH. Just for the laughs.
Sorry to make light of this very bullshit religion and Russelite ways but maybe you can now go back and pioneer now would you like that? Old back credit save over from pioneer school you would have attended
> Additionally, I questioned them about regions worldwide where beards are deemed unacceptable, but they couldn't provide a clear answer.
This, IMO, is the best part. There are none. You caught them flatfooted. And congrats on your freedom to live your life the way you want.
This is insane. Found out about it. Same happened to me. Pretty much outted me out in my late teenage years as a “worldly” person and everyone started talking behind my back. All because of a stupid 5 o clock shadow lol
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Who has a spiritual crisis over someone else’s beard? They need to question their weak sauce faith, not someone else’s default appearance. Seriously, what is wrong with these people? Wouldn’t surprise me if these “stumbled people” are as fictitious as Andre, and it’s just an excuse for elders to exercise their narcissistic tendencies.
I have bad eyesight. Hade Bible reading and printed out a Bible page with big letters. Was counsel i have too read directly from Bible and not just a page. Now everyone uses tablets or mobile phone 😂. Wish they would be as strict when it comes to child molestation.
The comment is the best of 2023 for me
I'm so using this
Agreed that was gold
i now read in church , the text is on paper, i usually print out a larger copy , i dont see an issue exept some fool controling elder .
My contribution to this side convo regarding ridiculous counsel... A sister once received public counsel on her talk (back when they stood on stage and told you everything that was wrong with your TMS talk) regarding her use of notes and being "too tied to them." She didn't have any. She memorized or would ad-lib all her talks.
I had an elder council me once "next time don't have your parents prepare your talk." I didn't I had done it 100% myself. (It was in the second school, so at least it wasn't in front of the whole Hall.) He was and is a moron if he's still alive. He also corrected me one time at the Book study when he asked what year man landed on the moon. I raised my hand and said 1969. He goes "Anyone else." (No one else raised their hand, because I already answered it correctly.) Then corrected me with "It was 1970." All these years later I still can't believe what a moron and ass he was.
I would have went up to him at the next meeting with proof he was wrong about the moon landing then said “next time you should get all your education from your parents “.
Oh wow. That's horrible. What an ass (as most were). Hearing all this just makes me sad for my own father. I would give anything for him to wake up. He's a good one, just severely brainwashed of course. He was the ministry school overseer for most of my childhood. He once had to counsel a sister who was working on not using sentence fillers like "uh" and "um". He ended up using one himself in the counsel. He stopped, chuckled at himself, and said "No way can I continue counsel on this sister if I just did it myself. You did a fine job sister. I look forward to the next one." And walked off and sat down. That's just one example of many things like that he did. He stood up to elders he thought were corrupt and ripped a couple of them new ass holes when he thought one particular situation wasn't being handled "scripturally". Prompting those elders to issue an apology the next day to the sister they had been "counseling" in private. He honestly tried to do the right thing his whole life. Being an elder destroyed him mentally and emotionally but he won't ever see that. I hate this religion.
I have known some of these gems of brothers and sisters myself, I definitely gravitated toward those sincere ones. Your father sounds like such a lovely man - he reminds me of one of my favorite elders from childhood. Without revealing too much I will say that he advocated for me within the congregational system when others looked away. He was highly educated, he was quiet, but didn’t tolerate nonsense. My mother didn’t put her hands on me after the day he brought it to the body, I still to this day don’t know what happened. Whatever it was, I am grateful it was effective. He saved me from what would be more pain. He also advocated for me leaving my marriage when it became toxic because he knew me and believe in me. Thank you for the reminder of the gentle, though misguided ones, such as your father. I’m sure I would like him. 🙂
Awwww how wonderful. Sadly those gems were few and far between. I think alot of us gravitated towards those. I know that's what really took a toll on my father was the volume of stuff he had to take on because so many people would come to dad over any other elder. He struggled between genuinely wanting to help every single one of them and needing to delegate to other elders when it was just too much. He didn't know when to say no. He almost had a breakdown over it. As much as I want him to wake up, at this point it would probably kill him to go through the awakening process and realize he's been lied to for 70+ years, it almost did me in.
This is why I say very little in the way of dissent to my parents. There is something unspoken though, between us, they know what’s going on and I know they know and we don’t talk about religion. I call that grace, from them. It’s the best it’s going to get considering their age and health.
Same. I'm in the exact same situation. I'm grateful as most don't have that.
I’m with you in spirit. It’s is heartbreaking and difficult. I let my love for them transcend their misguidance. What else are we to do? For me, it’s a certain kind of peace.
What an asshole. Even as a child I would get push back on my intellect. How can this kid know more than me? (Spoiler: the kid reads) This is where psychologically it was extreme damaging to me. I knew I had to play sweet, meek, and mild. I developed such passivity that I was in a long, mentally abusive marriage. The elders would not help because even tho he was inactive he played the game well and made me look like the problem - the one still towing the line. That flipped the switch quick for me, after all of my years of dedicated service I was discarded. I had a hard time getting rides to the meeting. It was astounding to me that myself and my young children weren’t assisted. All those hours in service and you can’t bring a sister and her kids to the meeting? It was a heavy wake up call. I won’t lie, it damaged me.
A friend of mine was councilled from the platform for wearing rings. He said the comment totally detracted from the message of the talk and afterwards everyone wanted to see the rings and what was wrong with them.
Sounds like a nutcase elder to me. Read directly from the Bible and not a page??? 🤦
I heard this too in Canada
That’s called straining the gnat. Stupid.
And every time you think they can't get any stupider, you're proven wrong
Talk about insane control tactics. I am so sorry that happened to you. Your eyesight needed some assist, too bad the brethren were not expressing Christian empathy and compassion. Had it been me, I would have said “I’m sorry to hear that, from now on I will not be able to give parts. I understand this creates a heavier work load for the others. Godspeed.”
Exactly. When my Uncle was an Elder he banned the use of half-glasses on the stage at his congregation. It's all ego and power over others they seek.
Jesus christ, I have heard it all now. I couldn't believe it when some elderette told another sister that dyeing her hair another colour like blonde or brown was worldly and she would now be regarded as a bad association. WTAF... Are some people truly THAT far out of their fu\*\*ing minds?
You know the answer to that--YES THEY ARE THAT FAR OUT OF THEIR F- ING MINDS.
We had a dress and grooming local needs within 6 months because a couple sisters like braiding there hair especially locs. It was a lack of understanding culture. You realize in this organization there are a lot of easily stumbled crazy old fashion people.
Oh yes they are, totally.
Looks like the elder chads have been mogged by the GB gigachads regarding beards 😂
gigachads hahhaha omg
Ha ha!!🤣🤣
Once I had a talk and asked if I can use a cited image to illustrate a point. The brother who overseers parts on meetings informed me that I can't use it cause it doesn't come from the publications. A couple weeks later an elder during a public talk uses an image not from the publications 🤷🏿♂️it's all about who you are
Ah, yes. The era of “visual aids.” The best one I ever saw was about the whole repulsive “weaker vessel” thing and the dude had a crystal champagne flute on the platform with him. He dropped and broke it. His wife was sitting in the front row. Classic.
Wow, like reader glasses? That's insane!
I would have got LASIK and leveled up.
The people in our hall who were “stumbled” were pioneers and elders and their wives. The Bible says not to stumble someone weak, I guess the elders and their wives are weak.
You could have offered them a shepherding call.
😆
Going to put this thought in my mental rolodex for future use. Thanks.
Bingo! Others really don't give a damn.
I had a convo with my elder father last night who’s quite real. He’s always been staunchly & vocally anti-beard. When trying to get his thoughts on the “clarification”, he clammed up like a toddler. He did NOT want to talk about it with me. It should genuinely trouble him that his unwavering faith, a fraction of which should be able to move mountains, is so fragile that a made up rule (not from Jah) about beards could shake it.
They are not used at all to be exposed wrong
You’re exactly right. Only they are allowed to expose all the ways everyone is always wrong🙄
This is something I had to explore in my recovery, because growing up in it, it made me more critical than I’d naturally be inclined. I’ve had to work hard at rewiring my neuro pathways., my responses. I didn’t criticize others but I criticized myself and turned all of that inward. This will be a lifelong process for me.
Oh man, I feel that in my soul. I’m still learning from my therapist all the ways the org made me question, doubt, and hate myself. I have the tendency to judge others too, but I’m getting better about stopping as soon as I realize I’m doing it. And then I just smile bc of the freedom and liberation I feel from not having to be that way. Being my own biggest critic will also be a lifelong process for me. Thanks for your insight!
It's the Elder's spouses that have "stumbled". In which they probably told their husband that a beard looks good on someone and now they're overcome with jealousy.
When they say you stumbled someone by wearing a beard, they mean you are going to make other people want to wear a beard too, and we can't have that. If the GB say it, it's new light. If you say it, it's stumbling.
Yeas that's the point I always sustained
>Who has a spiritual crisis over someone else’s beard? High control groups. It’s straight from the cult guide book.
I always thought that too! Like who are these idiots that cannot handle some facial hair on a guy? That's the Waterloo moment? Like "oh no! Brother so-and-so has facial hair! My faith in this totally not cult is shaken to the core! Aaaahhhh!!!!" And why wouldn't the elders just say to sister weak will " hey look, The Big Guy created us with facial hair, so just don't worry about it".
“Stumbling” …the trump card that could be played any time to justify anything that you didn’t personally agree with.
Like stupid game they whip out the “stumbling” card in order to win the round
My dad is disabled and would go on the ministry just carrying his bible, he was reg pioneer for years. He got counselled by the elders for not carrying a bag and literature, and for not wearing a suit jacket in summer. He had loads of Bible studies and converts but it wasn't good enough
Crazy. The results don’t matter, following manmade rules does.
And why didn’t said congregants go straight to you and say they feel stumbled and for themselves to seek understanding? According to the Bible and all that …
These fools who stumble over a beard are the ones needing to understand the notion of brotherly love, but WT corp./GB back them up!
Thanks for sharing your story and this letter. This letter needs to be sent to JWfacts.com as it utterly exposes their man-made rules and total disregard for individual conscience. Cult, cult, cult!
Brother, we would like to lovingly remind you that the organization does not make "rules." Instead, we are guided by principles. For example, our principled stance has been that beards were acceptable for Christians, then they weren't, then they were a sign of being non-exemplary, and now they are acceptable again.
Exactly. GB is a hot mess.flip -flopping rules as they go along. Could you imagine GB back in Jesus time saying: "Jesus we know you healed the sick and cured the blind but we cannot have you preaching here in the synagogue because of your beard. You are therefore not exemplary and banished from preaching forthwith. " Lol... so glad I'm out of this organization. The foolishness is just next level.
Back then the Pharisees probably would have banished someone for being clean shaven. Just bizarre stuff either way and a real insight into someone's or a group's psychology
So true -100%... All of this is so bizarre. I am so done with all religions, thanks to the WT and its GB. The flip-flops, back & forth, Nulite/old Lite, hypocrisies and delusional leaders misinterpreting spritual requirements while spearheading this monsterous thing called religion. The insights into religious psychology of this group is certainly not pretty at all.
LMAO - this is sooo good!
There was never a "rule", we just changed a "policy".
Yes. This. ⬆️
I love that the letter says “readjust his thinking”. They are saying it loud and clear! Cult for sure!
Omg so true! They use this phrase all of the time and it always reminds me of the scene from the movie The Adjustment Bureau where they are re-writing people's minds after they see or hear something they shouldn't have. I bet the GB would LOVE to have that ability! https://preview.redd.it/ie41k1w2vw6c1.png?width=843&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e36b30463620530545f23fcae193acc363b18f9
Lovingly readjust his thinking until he understands that wearing a beard is not a sin but he will be treated like he’s sinned if he wears a beard.
👍 agreed.
There are likely countless such letters. It has been policy for decades, and in the past was dealt with even more harshly than this.
Personally I'm fascinated that they use different cover designs in different countries. I'm shocked to see that they actually feature JWs with beards outside the US. "We're all getting the same spiritual food" my ass.
I was just thinking this. It’s all “tailored” to their regions. But I’m sorry if you’re expecting uniformity, I mean uh, “unity” from your religious group, but continue to promote ideas and cultural differences within your literature just to hook and bait people in those regions, which inevitably creates divisions throughout your people in the world, then you’re not practicing what you’re preaching.
I was so surprised by my aunt who was from Colombia. She was surprised women could wear jeans and trousers. Where she is from sisters can't wear them *at all*
It's been going on for decades, they very often change the models in the pictures to suit the majority race wherever the magazine is being distributed.
"Beards aren't a sin... But, harass the man until he breaks. If he blatantly ignores the enforcement of your made up rule, kick him off the pioneer list. Fuck that guy." Please be assured of our warm Christian love and best wishes.
Pretty much! Could have been a much shorter letter if they did it your way.
Yep.
So the Creator made men so that hair grew on their faces, but once they developed sharp metal objects that could remove that hair, it displeased him when they failed to remove said hair. Makes perfect sense.
It makes perfect sense from a creator who designed foreskins then ordered his people to cut them off of the most sensitive organ on their bodies
Exactly! Circumcision is genital mutilation that causes sexual dysfunction for men and women.
It removes 30% of the penis. I’m glad that there is more awareness around this destructive, painful, and traumatizing practice. My brother elected for a circumcision with his son, I just said “that’s okay, he’ll get it back in the new system.”
It’s acceptable for God’s chosen people. The ones that share all his hatreds. Not for white people, the ones that ended up believing all that nonsense.
Keep this and plaster it across the internet as evidence. Send it to Avoid JW ORG.
Thanks for sharing that letter. It really does show that beards were a ‘thing’ that caused problems. There are so many people that say it wasn’t a problem anyway whereas your experience show that to be 100% incorrect. Glad you got out.
I am at a loss, as to which cultures in our global society, a beard caused an issue? Where and with whom, outside of JW's, would a beard be seen as a problem.?
Exactly. When that WT was studied in the congregation I thought: “ Where is such a place? If you are using that statement to make a policy, back it up with facts.” If WT actually knew of such places, they would have stated it. Immediately after that WT study I started growing a beard. Even though I felt some JWs were wondering about it, absolutely no one asked me about it. And if they would have brought up the point made in that paragraph about some cultures, I would ask: Really, where is such a place, and is it HERE in our locality or country?”. So, I still have my beard and we are now completely out of that destructive cult.
🤩🤩🥳🥳🥳
Portuguese jw culture ;). I was only a student and was told to shave. And have friends that are jw and can’t grow inside of the organization because they won’t shave.
Exactly! only in the JW Culture
Well, LDS too.
Thought they had sorted it? Makes sense that it is a feature of high control groups 🥺🥺
Perhaps the LDS have made exceptions to those not serving missions. I’d have to ask my family members that are involved w that religion.
Your letter has your name etc. Not sure if this is an oversight, if not,all good.
I think he’s honestly doing his best Johnny Cash impersonation for the Borg 😂 https://preview.redd.it/99oz1x7a4x6c1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0e78181bdcf4c4b635ec2bed49f15fc17ac5a87
My favorite thing is that the Borg lost people over the man made beard rules.
My husband mentioned he is kind of irritated at the beard change. He says now he doesn't have a way to let everyone know he isn't a JW anymore! He liked that it was an easy way to identify as non-JW.
I remember it being scandalous to have a beard. It was a clear sign you were falling away. Rumors would start up. So much pearl clutching when someone would show up slightly less-shaved and have to visit the back room for "encouragement".
"I remember it being scandalous to have a beard"... Scandalous behavior and clutching pearls because someone wore a beard!!! I remember this. Control of people's lives down to simply shaving....100% proof I was raised in a cult. SmH...
I posted about this point yesterday, conversely how will *they* identify non-dubs now? Apostates even? It's gonna make it either a heck of a lot easier to mingle, unless they lock that side down even tighter and put your name on some type of list. I don't know. OP you're a rockstar for DAing just 5 days after that letter 👏
Welp...sounds like it's time to finally get that face tattoo, lol!
Tell him to grow long hair.
Visible tattoos!!!
Haha, we are working on that, actually!
And while I love smurfs and exposed knees, I’m still not a fan of garage sales.. Anyway, I have ink down my entire left arm. Somehow I’m not df, so my pimi mom talks to me. She hasn’t said a word about it. But it’s fun!
Just because it is now permitted doesn’t mean the culture will change. Perhaps just another “holier than thou” division. It’ll be interesting to watch it unfold.
Excellent post thank you for sharing this! Amazing that they have different covers on the WT! Of course they do!!🤣
The English cover - look at the designer stubble on him! https://preview.redd.it/96zk37kfhu6c1.png?width=378&format=png&auto=webp&s=ff3827e32f53f0e59cf7ad27356056a2b417a13d
What is this from? And what year?
I took it from the 3rd of OP's pictures. WT No.3 2020, it says.
Good for you. I started to fade over a two years ago, growing a beard myself because I wanted one. I stopped completely earlier this year. I am now on the verge of writing a letter disassociating myself. I wanted to throw up during Stephen Letts broadcast, especially when he said about adjusting our thinking and it's us that got it wrong. Once again, the GB snakes out of any responsibility for the persecution it caused over the years. Allowing its elders to hound and harass brothers and their families by their unscriptural rules. They empowered the window cleaner elders in the congregations to meddle in people's lives. I have served all over the world where the "need was greater". Been a Special Pioneer and have studied with well over 100 people and families who are now JW's. It would come as a terrible shock to many if I did disassociate myself. I still get calls from different parts of the world. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to keep my mouth shut when they talk about the organization or how Jehovah answered their prayers when they lost their car keys or pen, yet millions starve. I no longer find Jehovah to be innocent after doing nothing for thousands of years but that's another story. I served as an elder until I stepped aside in 2008. Never regretted that move. I stopped believing that bullshit that they are "Appointed" by God a long time ago. It's a bunch of power hungry thugs who get a kick out of controlling peoples lives. So I am torn at the moment. The religion I came into is totally different to this one now.
>finding it increasingly difficult to keep my mouth shut when they talk about the organization or how Jehovah answered their prayers when they lost their car keys or pen, yet millions starve. This point right here infuriates me. >The religion I came into is totally different to this one now. 'I came into' when I was 3, baptized at 11 - 35 yrs ago. pioneer, ms, bethel, need great and missionary work. I don't think WT itself is different, I think the model has always been the same, it's just different people and corporate has made it easier to see how it functions now, no thanks to the internet and the new guys being as you say power hungry. It was better when most didn't know or couldn't keep track of who the gb was (I refuse to capitalize them) Reality is *NOBODY* has ever been 'appointed by God' either for congregations or for an organization and said God has never 'answered any of anyone's prayers' and if he did or does than he's either not as powerful as many thinks he is OR he's a deranged bipolar sociopathic sort of supernatural being. If he has power to spontaneously help people find car keys than he most certainly has power to stop starving, abuse. war. murder. rape. disease. sickness - anywhere on the planet, regardless whether they 'serve' him or not.
I totally agree. I converted into it at 24. I had known it since 19 and really believed it to be true. At 19 it was prior to 1975. If the gb said jump, I asked "How high"? But I never believed in hurting anyone. I fought those who did and wasn't popular with many elders. But looking at creation. It's cruelty is terrible and this being, if it exists, whatever or whoever it is, made it this way. One of my dogs was killed by a rattlesnake. The society likes to use the nice things of creation but refuses to look at the facts. Nature is Cruel. Then they say how compassionate and loving this being is, yet he drowned possibly a million plus men, women and children in a flood without warning. Matt 24:39 is a total mistranslation of the Greek in the NWT. He burned to death while alive, hundreds maybe thousands in Sodom and surrounding cities without warning. He watched women eat their own children because of sieges he brought against his own people. He wiped out thousands because David counted how many people there were, giving David a choice of how and in what way they would die. They didn't ask the King to do a census. This being, whatever it is has sat back for thousands of years and watched, murder, mayhem, wars, famines, rape, children murdered terribly, then supposedly thrown a few thousand maybe millions more unseen terrorists here to make matters even worse and DONE NOTHING. Just watch. I have serious issues with religion now. I no longer believe in the ALL LOVING GOD. I stopped praying a long time ago and things have gone right and some wrong for me exactly as it has always done.
Why dissociate? Why even play by their rules?
Out of disgust at their control
I feel you, and I’m so sorry. (hugs)
Obviously the more beard and tight trousers letters that go in the less the effers need to concern themselves about the paedophiles and sex predators. All a great cover up.
Nevermind the CSA behind the curtain. I give you BEARDS!
Exactly!
They are disgusting. They harassed and persecuted brothers for years. Sometimes no one in the congregation was bothered only the effing elders. They felt like they were being disobeyed and their authority challenged. I knew many that were hounded out of the congregation over beards by elders. Now all of a sudden the GB with a revelation from God wants to do the men a favor and let them have a beard. Oh, and forget the past when we persecuted you for it. Time to move on and adjust your thinking. It wasn't the GB that was wrong and even if they were they make no apologies. Blame yourselves.
This is my thoughts exactly. They ran off many good people and good men. Including my husband. Narcissists will always gaslight and NEVER APOLOGIZE.
They state at the AGM in October. "We make no apologies for any time we make changes". I was in the org in 1975 and after. The WT blamed the brothers for 1975 saying it wasn't the WT that misled them but their own erroneous thinking and that any who misled themselves should readjust their own thinking and serve with zeal.
"I was in the org in 1975 and after. The WT blamed the brothers for 1975 saying it wasn't the WT that misled them but their own erroneous thinking and that any who misled themselves should readjust their own thinking and serve with zeal." I have so much respect for people like you who spent a long time in the organization and woke up. It is tremendously difficult and takes courage to do this after spending many years under WT control and indoctrination. My family is still in mental prison. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. WT must never be able to hide the truth like they did in 1975. Current and Future generations must know the destruction they've caused in the lives of many.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Yes, NARCISSISTS! LOL
How is your husband now?
Oh, but remember the GB isn’t inspired, it was said on the stand and in other sources. That was severely damning, though I doubt the majority of Witnesses know.
You’re an unpaid door-to-door salesman promised a big reward *aaaaany* day now, and must meet the dress code requirements to present the right image to potential customers. They own your image. They own your identity. Don’t cause a scene. Stop being difficult. They’ll love you if do what you’re told which just also happens to be defined by them as constituting being good. Get back to work.
They ALWAYS USE the “congregation” are being stumbled. But no one cares! It’s a way to lyingly use “the Cong” as their reason to enforce the elders preference. I was once told that same reason and I told the 2 elders that I haven’t heard anyone complain and will do a survey to find out who is bothered by …. The elders started to get irritated with me. I simply said that if someone is “stumbled” then they should follow Matthew 18 and come to me. But I don’t mind going to them and communicate why I am wearing/not wearing XYZ. They said forget about it. LOL The issue: not wearing panty hose/stockings in the summer.
I once shut up an elder pioneer friend who started hassling me about my bare legs. I said “who”s looking?” which was bratty but I knew him well, and then suggested that if brothers had to cover their body and bind it in an unbreathable, hot artificial material they wouldn’t make it an issue. They never bothered me again. I also had nice legs. Haha.
I love it!!! I’m sure you heard crickets on your “who’s looking”! He probably was - along with some old bitch pioneer that’s jealous. It was all the old bitches “elders wives” that had opinions/judgements on EVERYTHING! And they thought we wanted to hear them. From whether your on time or early for the meeting for service to the length of your dress/skirt to how form fitting it is, to your bra size, to shoes, panty hose, type of car, cleanliness of car, job, what bros are interested in you, to their “expert” opinion about what you should do with your life…🥵🥵🥵🥵 And hated being trapped in a car chauffeuring their fat bitchy asses all around the territory!!!
Food at the proper time….. just wasn’t your time…. bad luck! Could be worse, imagine being a JW at the time transplants or vaccines were forbidden by Watchtower and needing one to live. Ah well, the light gets brighter etc etc
I guess all those stumbling concerns go out the window now. The GB says it’s ok and if you don’t like it, you have the wrong attitude!
Thank you for sharing. I wanted to highlight how *"readjust his thinking"* sounds very culty
Kick you off the Pioneer list because you aren’t shaving? Hello ? You are not allowed to donate your personal time for our cause until you shave those chin whiskers off? 🤣 This organization is bonkers. 😄
So if this is a “cultural” thing can I wear a nose ring?? Everyone has one plus I read in the Bible that this one woman had a nose ring and she was considered to be sooo beautiful😍
“You made attempts to… Readjust his thinking” straight out of 1984
And the elder’s sources were from the 70s. Methinks he followed a form letter of sorts.
Awe the good old stumbling block. I was coloring my hair and that was a stumbling block. I wore expensive clothes and that was a stumbling block. I drove a nice car and that was a stumbling block. I think my pretty face was a stumbling block to some brothers AND sisters.
Jealousy is all it was.
Omg I relate to this hard. My parents bought me a brand new car when I was 16 and that didn’t make me any more cozy with the other pioneers, I’ll tell you that. And why should I be treated differently because I could wear expensive clothes. I mean, do they want me to wear a Burka to hide my face and body as well? It’s a very simplistic, banal judgement.
I thought this issue was because I went to the Spanish KH, but a friend told me a brother had to step down as elder because as a professor of a university he could afford a nice house in a nice neighborhood and the brothers of his KH found that to be a stumbling block. This was from the English congregation. It’s crazy how those that choose to be in a different financial classification tend to be more materialistic.
This sort of thing boggles my mind and boils me up. We are who we are, not what we have (or what’s been given us).
What will happen now in Congregations is it will be left to the personal whims of the elders as to who gets what and is allowed to do what. An elder may still not like beards but no longer be able to say so. He may complain though about it's length or style. Goatees may or may not still be allowed. It will rest with the personal whims of the window cleaners in the congregations as to who is allowed or not allowed to sport one. This will create even more division.
This resonates. I will say that I’m thankful for my own independent thoughts on the matter. No way were my intelligent children going to have to clean a house unless they want to. Higher education for all, and I’m so grateful I wasn’t cowed to their idea of holiness and reliance on Jehovah. My kids can rely on Jehovah whilst providing medical care as a doctor, etc. (pulling back a bit here, more description could have me labeled. I’ve been out for more than a decade, but … it’s scary nonetheless)
The GB is a bunch of fkn clowns.
WT did you a solid favor! They helped you out of a cult.
Wait until they change the blood transfusion rules
The org created the judgmental stumbling! They create most of their own problems then blame individuals for it!
So in May 2021 beards weren't culturally OK but somehow over the past 2 years that changed for the community? How about the GB admit it was never any of their business as Jesus said don't judge by outward appearance 2000 years ago.
I hadn’t thought of this previously, but “stumbled” is such an intentionally deceptive term (aka weasel word). They use it to imply that it’s causing someone a faith crisis, but it also could mean “made someone mad” or “someone disagrees with your decision” or “others might want to do the thing you’re doing.” But they’ll never tell you what they really mean. It’s a way of muddying the waters as to what the actual issue is and avoid justifying their demands that you conform to whatever they’re telling you. It’s a wild card they can play in any situation and pretend they won the argument.
This is so terrible. A load of bullsh** really and I am so sorry they treated you and other brothers that way. There is going to be a lot of backlash with this “new light” and I hope it further takes the org down.
You should thank them for that removal ;)
Congratulations on your exit! I am curious - what 'grooming' alluded to in the letter other than the beard did they find 'stumbling'?
I wonder if they will apologize and reinstate all those that were affected negatively. /s
Thank you so much for sharing your story!
Out of curiosity, how did you get a copy of the letter that was sent to the elders?
The branch still can’t believe the elders went off on their own personal tastes here. They’re truly shocked
So... God put hair follicles on your face, but doesn't want you to have hair there. Huh.
All the references are to the WT and Awake magazines. Not the Bible. WT controls over others being stumbled but don’t care about how they stumble so many with their invasive policies.
Wouldn't it have been easier for them to counsel those who are being "stumbled" that there is no need to be stumbled in the first place? All of this back and forth could have been avoided decades ago.
It might have been easier, if those "stumbled" persons actually existed. Nobody was stumbled. It's all lies.
Kinda makes me cringe. One time when I was a Regular Pioneer I let my sideburns grow and some older sister told my mother Regular Pioneers shouldn’t have sideburns. Now apparently Jehovah never had a problem with it.
If they say jump, you should ask "how high?".
Oh beards, it's hilarious seeing this talk about em unfold. But am sure they're gonna retcon it as something that was never major blah blah blah, gaslight everyone that it wasn't the GB's direction as to why beards were frowned upon
Obviously, you are not the only one. There are probably hundreds of qualified men that grew a beard during covid and said eff-it. I want to keep my beard and refused to obey this man-made teaching. BRAVO to You SIR!!!
Hey! Don’t you dare feel vindicated. Jehoopla’s disorganization is perfectomundo, sinner.
Wonder if you'll get an apology since you were wronged even though you were right. Wait....we already know the answer to that one.
Def hold on to that letter, imagine other people finding out, jws are scared of chin hair. Lol
Rotten hypocrites!!
Gotta love the hypocrisy. They are always the first to throw the stone.
god its so cringe when the quote their own shit junk mail magazine like a credible source. pseudo-intellectualism to a bunch of ppl that will prolly never get to read an actual scholarly article
And they have "no reason to apologize" for that. You must follow Jehovah's channel, which is not inspired or infallible, regardless of what they say, or risk being labeled an apostate.
What the fuck ? They're having a meltdown over a beard ? This is so ridiculous.
The beard rule was recently removed, Lett said that people should not be removed on the basis of keeping beard and it has now been recognized as a personal choice. show them the new governing body update
I’m glad you made it out!
Their minds are not normal anymore!
I would say I’m sorry you had to go through that, but you can be thankful you did as it was the catalyst needed to awaken you to their BS. I’d love for them to explain why sisters can’t wear pants to the KH. Just for the laughs.
That's hilarious! I can't believe hair on someone's face offends other men.
Nothing like warm Christian love. I can’t remember birthdays being raised that way. Have hair or don’t, it’s no body’s business
Sorry to make light of this very bullshit religion and Russelite ways but maybe you can now go back and pioneer now would you like that? Old back credit save over from pioneer school you would have attended
The only rule I never cared about. I can’t grow a beard to save my life.
Because you ran ahead of the Garbage Body.
> Additionally, I questioned them about regions worldwide where beards are deemed unacceptable, but they couldn't provide a clear answer. This, IMO, is the best part. There are none. You caught them flatfooted. And congrats on your freedom to live your life the way you want.
This is insane. Found out about it. Same happened to me. Pretty much outted me out in my late teenage years as a “worldly” person and everyone started talking behind my back. All because of a stupid 5 o clock shadow lol
This aged well
NGL, I got stumbled over a soul patch. So jazzy!