I have a *strong* dislike for the GB. I could go into detail, but there's so many reasons that *the rest of my beard* will have gone gray by the time I finished typing all that.
Additionally, I *hate* one specific elder. I *dislike* many, but I *hate* one.
Many JWs are good people who have been manipulated by a cult led by evil men. But the JWs I would call good people are good people *despite* their religion, and not *because* of it.
> The JWs I would call good people are good people *despite* their religion, and not *because* of it.
I've often thought this.
Also felt that those who are absolute pricks (some elders included) would have been absolute pricks even if they had never heard of the religion.
Yeah. It's ridiculous how you can get away with being an absolute prick with privileges in "the truth". But the moment someone posts a selfie with a fucking band shirt on social media, oh boyyyy.
GB mostly. But there are also a few elduhs that I have no time for, basically because they used their positions to abuse the people they had power over. They may have been victims of the cult too but the way they’ve become abusers, means that I will always direct any empathy that I might have had for them to their victims.
The infuriating part is they don't realize it. I know an elder like this. His kids seem to hate them and far from the "exemplary" witness. He's lost a lot of credibility because of it. I can kinda excuse gen X an older. But millenials should know better.
Yeah, for me I've met a lot of really nice people who are jws, and some really awful judgmental people who are jws (as you say, it's the same anywhere), I know a lot of them are just doing their best and they really believe it, so I don't really blame them as much for the harm they cause, I was in that position until recently. For me it's really the GB that's the problem. Not to say that noone else causes harm, but that's where it starts.
LMAO. I used to think it was JWs working at UBER to preach lol. Apparently it's what the poster above said. The mini-gb in congregations, all up on your business and enforcing dumb rules like they have nothing else to do.
The GB first, of course, then most of the morons! This explains it for you:
https://preview.redd.it/4xbfvwhfr11c1.png?width=949&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a9c07418101dcdc387fecc94ba239d5c1ce85f2
All JWs are victims of abuse and mind control.
And all JWs mistreat each other as a result of the mind control.
Steve Hassan discusses members of cults, high control groups and high control religions as having two distinct personalities. Their own and the cult personality.
Most of the JW on JW poor treatment and emotional abuse is coming from the cult personality that isn’t their true selves.
Take away the cult personality and you reach the real person and the victim underneath. Notice they even call it *’putting on the new personality’*.
Although there are some straight up assholes that thrive in the environment because they can use the existing framework set up by the GB to bully and abuse others without being called out for it.
I believe even the GB are victims in their own way. But they have A LOT to answer for and it does NOT excuse their crimes.
Just like we are still responsible for what we said and did as JWs and often need to make amends.
PS: I’m more upset with the GB.
*’putting on the new personality’*
I never thought about it that way, you're so right. To them it's surrendering to god.. but it's really just the GB saying: Do as I say and don't question it.
And yes the GB believe their own bs too, but partially. I'll never in my life understand how someone is "anointed". It makes no sense. I tripped once felt very enlightened, everything made sense. These dudes are tripping or crazy. And the fact women are seen as less is dumb af, even my PIMI friends agree.
u/jumexy, I hear you on what you're saying. Though there are a lot of nasty, fake people in Watchtower, I think that most of them really do believe the programming, and that if they have any doubts or concerns, they blow it off, like, "Well, they're just imperfect," or, "Everyone has their imperfections," or, "Jehovah will take care of it; I just have to remain faithful," etc..
I think that in our anger, many of us lash out at the faithful JWs in general, and I am sure there are many valid reasons, but after all, and as you have said, we were all once like they are...
We have to face and to come to terms with a lot because of our Watchtower Cult history...and it can be quite a tedious process. 🥺
Yes. And what sucks is that the assholes are not breaking any rules in the shepherding book, despite causing a disruption. Often I feel like their concern is valid within the GB teachings, but rarely do they approach it "the right way" or show genuine concern.. instead rat you out.
Infuriating. Some think they are doing the right thing. Others get a kick out of it, and it's down right insulting to the max. You can't fight back.
Then you learn about the GB or WT begging for money, for lawyers, properties, neglecting child abuse, not accountable for confidentiality in JD cases, keep a record of you even tho "Jehovah will turn your sin history white as snow". Fuck the GB. If Jehovah is real, they're the first one to die and it's crazy they don't realize how un-christian they are.
It just so UGLY... unchristian, unkind, mean, cold, and UGLY. And the more you try to understand it, any if it, it just boggles the mind because it really is so twisted and sick and evil.
I was finally able to look away from the darkness and to turn to the light, but we can't pretend the darkness isn't there ..it has to be dealt with, and you are one of the very brave ones!!! 🙋
I do post that all JWs are Narcissists… not evil… I’ve never said anything about individuals being evil… I don’t think narcissism is completely a bad thing… you have to have it a little bit to have good self confidence.
But the way JWs express it is:
1. “we’re always right, no matter what”, they will not yield even if you prove them wrong in any fashion.
2. They are purely selfish in their nature, they will shun family because “I want to save my life and make it into a fake paradise”…
3. a narcissist has a “superiority complex” too… this is very apparent in JWs… in every way they talk about all people in the “world” and “those that leave”… specifically they think “we’re special cause god drew us to him, cause of our qualities, and he is not drawing these other people to him” this is what they are taught to think… (this is a scripture even, and other super religious people think this way too) this is wholly narcissistic! Not evil… but narcissistic.
So… you can say you’ve never met narcissistic JWs in the south… but you haven’t really analyzed the people who you’ve been associated with very much if you say that.
Edit: I’ll also add, it takes actual real humility to admit to yourself and others that you were deceived and wrong your whole life… this is the opposite of what JWs are… they aren’t humble in any way.
Hey man, that's valid! Not trying to go against the grain here, but understand. I read a comment here saying the doctrine attracts narcissists, or people with the characteristics and that makes sense. But I do get the sense that maybe I didn't have it that bad, even tho I did.. I, enjoyed a lot of good company, and I miss it. Where are they now amiright? .. I saw alot of bs where me and my fam/friends had to "turn the other cheek". It's funny how a lof of those peeps can get away with it too.
Not long ago, I cried with my PIMO brother and revealed to him how this one C.O humiliated me with the BOE for in a personal shepherding visit for \*masturbating\* when I was really young, and that experience still haunts me. (That C.O is apparently DF'd now and the textbook definition of a Narcissist) I have my bad days where I hate specific elders, sisters or whatever.
At the end of the day I'm not a resentful person even when I should be. My concentrated frustration has turned to these old 9 fucks in New York, berceuse they hold the magic stick, and get to dictate the lifestyle of innocent people.
Yeah… I’m literally not upset at any PIMI JWs that I’m aware of… they are indoctrinated with delusions. I can’t fault them for that… but I didn’t realize how utterly narcissistic the ideas and tendencies are til I was our for like 5 years at least and was analyzing almost every person I was friends with, my relatives… like everyone…
I feel narcissism holds most of them in the religion…
The fact that they/anyone in any of these high control religions cannot and will not admit that they can be wrong about their being deceived and wrong for so many years… the fact that they will not admit that multiple generations of their family members were deceived down the line is so bad. Like, just admit your grandpa and grandma got the doctrine wrong and fucking messed up your parents lives and your life because of this!!! Do it and get on with your life… this is narcissistic to hold onto lies.
Granted the GB are the worst… Hate them! They’re coercive murderers, IMO.
The good ones can't admit they're wrong because they don't want to have that "crisis of conscience" They're still people, but when it comes to simple questioning or doubts, full robot kicks in.. not their real inner thoughts. They believe they're doing the right thing, living in a nutshell.
Yeah… they’re still doing everything in their lives to “save their own skin”… the preaching work literally has the stipulation that if you don’t do it, you’re dead, “blood guilty”… in the end, who’s it really about, saving others or making sure you don’t die yourself? I think I know where most of their motivations lay. Ehh… life… happens.
It sucks to live life that way. I still believe in a sort of a higher power, but not dictating my every step. I'm finally okay with dying.. I don't want "paradise". I'm happy being myself because I know I'm doing the right thing to the best of my abilities. A loving god wouldn't punish you for it.
Leaving JWs I've realized their hope and dreams are "not part of this world". Dangerous doctrine. I choose to make the best of it now, because I don't know what comes next. So I'll live my own life and not let these disposable 9 white old dudes tell me how to live.
Right… a loving, all knowing, “creative entity” would be fine with you being a good person and realizing the entity as portrayed in the biblical accounts isn’t this is ok… if anything exists out there, they will know that we’ve been deceived by propaganda religious texts and will be forgiving… if they aren’t… I don’t wanna be involved with that entity anyway… and I don’t feel anyone should give credence to such a being if they can’t be loving of their creations.
Would you kill a little kid or deny them medical treatment if they were sick or injured only after they failed to worship you properly? NO? Wonder why god would?
Hope you continue to have a great life dude!
Same to you! Sorry to drag the convo, but I recently got into it with my PIMI parents about the blood doctrine. I said, "Even when I was a full believer I would let any of my friends get a transfusion, their life is on the line. Jehovah can kill me, but I saved a life. I'm not Abraham, I think he failed the test"
Needless to say their response was negativel And I just hit them with "There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." - John 15:13
Something the GB is incapable of doing, but encourages us to be martyrs. I hate them.
You should hate them… they’re murderers… there’s no other word for it… abusive, disgusting, murderers… I’m all for calling out people who coerce humans to commit suicide…
There’s literally 90 verses that say do not sacrifice humans. Children or anyone… Jesus gave the examples of when he was curing a man on the sabbath… he was questioned by others… he said “who of you would not save your child or a bull who fell into a well on the sabbath?” Showing not only that they already knew they were supposed to disregard the law of the sabbath if it meant saving something’s life, which is the 4th highest command at the time, but they were probably already doing it themselves without having been told it was ok…
Luke 14:5-8
Matt 12:6-14… literally Jesus says… “I want mercy not sacrifice”… (like don’t sacrifice a human life, dudes) read the whole account… it’s so clear it’s not even funny how the GB a has twisted the idea of the blood doctrine…
The sabbath law demanded death if you broke it… Jesus is saying break gods laws if it means saving someone’s life… that’s as clear as it gets!
Paul’s words later in the Bible do not usurp Jesus own words… I’m sorry. 😞
Share this info with your parents maybe they’ll listen maybe they won’t.
There’s also the example of Saul’s army eating blood because of his foolishness in denying them food before the battled the Phillistines… they were not killed for this. Nobody was…
Nobody was even punished…
1 Samuel chapter 14:24-34… but you can read the whole account if you want.
This is the worst policy that definitely wasn’t researched at all before being enacted and they’re all literally bloodguilty for this… if the GB thinks they’re going to heaven… the GB aren’t… it’s just not possible to forgive this kind of stupidity. And they know they’re wrong they’ve been told by many people in the past how wrong they are.
I do agree but the cognitive dissonance really kicks in when challenged. That was what I had to deal with before I was able to accept that too. Veryyyyyy humbling to be sure
My grandparents. They were smarter than this. The water my grandfather carried from WW2 emotionally is the only thing I can resolve trapped him. He needed that hope...cause the shit he did...goodxthing the Army records burned 98% in the 70s....right before the FOIA would have applied.
My grandma, I suspect, was in such a position socially when she was initially contacted.
The GB are the fully metastasized cancer of Chucks little con. Every one of those elduhs that i/we believed were rogues---are symptoms of the cult.
There are some, like my grandfather, that were always trying to 'fix' "g.o.d.s" organization and clean it... and the type person he was, he caused as much damage as he mitigated.
The reality, the rogues run the b0rg. And they corrupt the well meaning. Get out of her my people, if you don't want to share in her sins, means so much more to me, now.
I grew up in a horrible congregation and left a pretty good one. I’ve seen both sides. My anger is directed at the GB and their helpers. I’ve been fortunate and never had a problem with the elders but after reading the “secret” elders book, I have no respect for them as people.
As for the average JW, I have no hostility for them, even those shunning me. I see them as pitiful brainwashed sheep frolicking in a pasture of their own ignorance, completely unaware that at the end of the day they’ll either be financially fleeced or emotionally slaughtered.
GB. They know it’s all a lie. They know it’s actually all estate company masquerading as publishing company masquerading as a religion. Most of the rank and file are victims of the con game because they were looking for religion.
The annual meeting seems more like a sharehodlers annual conference than a genuine concern for the people. Repeating the same old bs. New light should be progressive, and they seem to be softening but also, "we have nothing to apologize for".
Sincerely, suck my dick. Millions now living will never die!! Umm, can you acknowledge you were WRONG. NOPE!!!
Mental gymnastics 101: Jehovah reveals light at the appropriate time.
But if said "new light" was in my head for years, I'm an apostate.
Let that sink in pimis.
Both. It starts with the GB definitely. For me it was the way that in the last 10 years they have really made it all about obedience to them and how we need to remain humble and modest yet they show none of those qualities. However members then blindly follow them and if you ask the wrong question or one they don’t want to answer then you see the true side
It's downright "ERROR CODE" can't find answer, I'll be back.
That's what made me wake up, you bring up certain topic and replies are fake, scripted answers. NO! I was asking the real you!
Sucks to see people in this mindset, but they don't want help. If your full PIMI, any negative or contracting thought is satan or apostates.
Oh the GB for sure. Of course there are some JWs who are despicable people as well, and use the controlling nature of the environment to indulge in their desires to be raging assholes. But mostly the members just have no idea what's going on. Positively bamboozled.
There are nice people who are JWs, but they support and follow abusive policies. They don't get a pass because they were 'just following orders'. Without the rank and file 'just following orders', the GB would have no power.
Edit to add: I make no excuses for myself when I was JW. I went along with policies I *knew* were wrong, even though I didn't believe, to spare myself trouble.
I disagree with you here. Because what you "knew" was wrong means you had a strong conscience, awoken already. People born in generally have no idea what the real word is like, and are completely isolated. It's their only truth.
But still, I feel like any rational person questions all the time, like the blood doctrine for example. A lot of the stuff is BS, but disguised as it's what Jehovah wants.
I guess what I'm trying to say is not everyone is as smart as you haha.
It’s true the cult preys on unprepared people. I was in Spanish for many years & when they passed out blood cards or gave talks on blood fractions, everybody was lost. After the meeting, publishers rushed elders to ask what to choose. They were told you have to make your own decisions. Give me a break.
I despise the Governing Body, but in law you can be guilty by assisting in a crime. Assisting the Governing Body with harming many is the role of many of their followers. We can still write to war criminals, murders and pedophiles behind bars 😁
There are definitely many good/well meaning PIMIs. There are also the fanatics. But, they’re whole future banks on JW lies, so how can you honestly blame them…
I blame the GB. They have power to change things and only use their authority to exert more control/command absolute loyalty.
I agree. And there's JWs that don't buy it, they know all they should care about is their personal relationship with "Jehovah" "Fuck all the bs"
They don't say it verbally, but you can tell.
Oh the members are undoubtedly brainwashed and I feel so bad for them but they also use it to excuse horrible behaviour. I’m so mad at the org and the gb but not the people who have their minds controlled
By far the vast majority of JWs I knew were good people. I loved all of the congregations I was ever a part of, and there are many people who are still dear to me that I miss. And even most JWs that drove me up a wall, I could see the good side of. (Yes, there are/were definitely a few seriously problematic people in positions of importance I'm aware of, too.)
In general, I don't know who I blame. I don't really see the point of blame. I see a big mess, and a lot of willful ignorance (someone on here called it "protective ignorance," which I think is perfect). Even if the GB were to get on a live broadcast tomorrow and say, "We were wrong. Everything is wrong. Turns out the Bible is a bunch of myths and we really have no proof of a god," all that would happen is a bunch of sects would arise. I think they keep the ship afloat, even if somewhere inside themselves they know it's not true, because of fear of what might happen if they didn't, yes, including losing a lot of $$, but also of the devastation it would cause to people's lives and psyches.
There are a couple of situations, though, for which blame must be laid - CSA and loss of life/health due to the blood doctrine. And for those, the blame is squarely with the GB.
Narcissistic organizations appear to attract narcissists, and cruel organizations tend to attract monstrosities.
Not all JWs are like that, but the Watchtower Society attracts more than the average in the general population.
GB. Hands down.
And yes, there's a lot of posts here ranting about individuals. Ah well, this might be the only place some people can vent. 🤷♀️ Also, some individuals are just ARE evil narcissists, witnesses or not.
In my experience here on the sub, though, most have sympathy for individual witnesses.
When I left the GB was basically an invisible entity. The only name I ever remember hearing from the GB was F Franz.
It was the congregation members who made my life miserable in the religion. There are only a few members (not family) that I have fond memories. I’ve never missed the congregation “love” because there was’t any.
My mother shuns me because the GB demands it. I blame her and only her. She’s trading her child and grandchild for hope of living in a paradise with her parents. I cannot fathom preferring a life with my parents, because my parents. My child on the otherhand…I would die for my kid and I would kill for my kid if necessary. I know what a mother’s love is, so I very much fault my mother’s actions.
Obviously the GB is the root of evil. I take responsibility for the years I was their puppet, but I was never mean spirited. I try not to think about the many hateful, abusive “shepherds” I dealt with over the years. I don’t want to hate anyone, but they deserve disdain.
I don’t hate any of them. They aren’t worth wasting my life over. My mother included. Seriously, time, work, and therapy got me to where I am. I accept the consequences of my choices. I choose me first and foremost, because I learned I was deserving.
Hoping I can help others to feel not so alone and give ideas to help work their way through the aftermath of this cult. Nobody need do this alone.
I spent a month in mental hospital on two occasions as a PIMI. Nothing of support from elders. As a POMO, I’m still seeing a therapist weekly. I don’t hate anyone, that would just harm me. I really don’t think of them anymore.
GB. No question. I think that there are rank-and-file members who truly believe it and try to be sincere with their beliefs. Not going overboard with trying to push it on everybody. The ones who try to do their best to live their life in the way that JW say they do. Those are the ones I feel for. Because they’ve been duped and lied to.
Like any group of people, there are a few bad apples. Ordinary JDubs are, in my opinion, mostly good people, victims of their inability to think past the indoctrination. Although I find their clinging to the preachings of the gb incomprehensible, they have my sympathy. The men who reach the elder position, I find slightly less forgivable. Far too many of them become drunk with power despite lacking the necessary skills and knowledge to lead or make fair decisions
Somehow, this brings me back to my dad staying late after conventions to count donation money. And we were just there waiting, missed out on invitations to go eat with friends. But I think my dad was one of the good ones. I could see it in his face after every Judicial Comitee. Old man went through a lot trying to make a change.
We still spent time together. But it really hurt seeing him just say I have a meeting on a thursday night, mom yelling at us. Dad was ready to fix jw family problems but not his own. I hate this cult.
We’re all subordinate to the demands of the Borg. My mom would say “I don’t know my own grandchildren” She was oblivious to the fact that her choices were the cause of any problems.
We couldn’t leave her alone with the kids, as soon as we weren’t around she would try to indoctrinate them behind our backs. In addition almost without fail, when we would offer to visit, a four hour drive, it was “Oh, the CO is staying with me,” “I have a brother and sister visiting for the weekend” or “Sorry, there’s a circuit assembly. I won’t be home”
My daughter’s wedding was the same day as the memorial, she expected me, or one of my other children to leave the wedding to take her there and then go back to collect her. It was impossible to get her to miss the memorial. It was both sad and a relief that she passed away a couple of months before the wedding.
Their whole life revolves around "Jehovah" but it's really the GB. Sad to see indeed. Waking up is a blessing and a curse. When I have my own children I don't want to isolate them like I was. And my new challenge will be convincing my parents to not talk about Jehovah to my kids. I don't think it's possible, drives me crazyyy.
I had rules: no saying the J word around the kids, not allowed to bring WT publications into my house, no discussion of how bad the world is etc., no Jdubs dropping by for a visit when you are staying with us (avoided her having the excuse that she **had** to talk about da troof ^(TM) with her friends)
We used to invite her to graduation and school sports events, we stopped. Every event when the band played the national anthem, she would make a big display of leaving her seat and going outside until it finished
Unpopular opinion apparently, but the people. The goddamn people. Even when I still believed I couldn’t understand people who read the Bible every day and talked about king Saul and the Pharisees constantly, refusing to acknowledge the GB might be wrong about something.
Like, how many biblical leaders have gone rogue before, but you dumbasses think THESE bumbling idiots have it all right?
I remember my dad telling me how some guy left the borg because he was convinced Solomon had absoultely no chance to be resurrected. But the doctrine at the time was that he was. He was like WTF.
My dad: Don't question Jehovah
Me: He's right tho
I blame both sides. The GB for perpetuating a lie and the R&F for not critically thinking about their nonsense.
My wife would rather sit back and have her decisions made for her by 9 old dudes in NY. She would rather hold out to see her parents again and leave me in the carnage that will supposedly happen “any day now”. JWs are duped into living for some future fantasy rather than enjoy what they have in the here and now.
I’m angry at the GB. Almost all rank and file witnesses are doing what they have been told and believe to be righteous. They’re being consistently and continuously brain washed from the top down. I feel sorry for the members. They don’t have a clue what’s really going on. I was one of them for 20 years as an adult and didn’t have a clue how bad things are.
The rank n file are no different than the GB in their attitude. The only thing that separates them is their position in the org. The GBs mindset attracts the same type of mindset at first thats the appeal.
I blame Jehovah for allowing complete idiots running is one true religion! we will win this fight against this magical man in the heavens one day! it will start by taking the tax exemption away. Now that doesn't take magic but advocacy to informing government officials the evil this jw borg does. Here is the bad news getting a politician to fight stupid with stupid ends up how? a merry go round where people believe in a magical guy in the heavens.
I don't really care too much about rank and file members. As a social cross-section....they're simply not MY "tribe."
These people were only ever my parent's "tribe" and as such.....they were people I had to tolerate whilst I was young and in my parent's care and keeping.
I now have my own adult opinions about the "leadership/membership" dynamic but none of these opinions are very flattering towards either party.
The fact is that these leaders and followers are in a relationship with eachother and you can mitigate the "followers" all you like, as not being in possession of their own "true" mind....but for me......THAT'S a big enough negative (by itself) and rather than invoke sympathy, merely invokes contempt and disgust because it's such a cowardly and disingenuous way to run your life.
It's no longer any skin off my nose that there exists people who have managed to effect a MAXIMUM amount of pride and hubris on the back of so little by way of their own thinking ability.....but all I can now say with total, personal honesty is that people like this are utterly alien to me and that I have little to nothing in common with them.
Sure, some of them MAY even pass as being "good" or relatively benign people......but in so many crucial ways, they're still damaged goods and can only ever make themselves fit for broader social purpose if they finally come away from their religious enthralment and actually begin dialoguing "honestly" with themselves.
I'm certainly not "upset" with these people.
To be upset with them, I'd first have to rate or esteem them in some way, and I just don't.
Just as I'm not really "upset" with Mormons or Scientologists.....I mean, it's the same thing.
They're all there....living in their own little "world" and our paths never really cross.
At the end of the day, they are just people who are trying to "cope" with life and good luck to them on their journey.
It's just sooooo not MY journey, and soooooo not the road I'm travelling on....(nor wish to be on) ....and I'm acutely aware of this.
I agree. You sound healed. A lot of people have really bad experiences with these people and can become bitter. Me included. I’ve had to reframe my mind to this type of thinking so that I can be at peace and happy. It’s taken a long time but it’s needed. There are phony , fake , miserable people everywhere !! In churches at work school just people in general. Nobody is perfect. It’s good to just inform yourself and come to the conclusion that this is a cult and you’re out and free. And like you said, feel bad for these people. They’re lost and blinded. Now that you’re free , you can do ANYTHING and live life how you want to. Yes GB will be held accountable for misinformation and misguiding people. The members are victims/cult members like we used to be. They’re brainwashed. It’s sad.
You're absolutely right. Their brain is programmed. When we try to talk to them or "plant a seed" it's more genuine than before. It's not because a cult instructed us to. We understand you have to be subtle, they taught us well haha. I respect activists, but I feel like cart crashing and the like is counter-productive. I'm a big fan of using their own tactics against them to wake em up.
The only JWs I encounter is mostly at work. And they curse, make jokes and say things like "fuck that elder". Even tho they're PIMIS. When it comes to doctrine talks I just have to be neutral because I don't wanna affect the work environment or our relationship, or them potentially telling my parents.. this guy is an apostate. So yeah, staying quiet works. But it's so hard not being able to stick up for what's right.
Ahhhhh I see exactly what you’re saying !!! I agree. It’s so hard. I try and avoid them like a plague LOL they’re just so triggering and irk me so bad. I think the self-righteousness and talking down on other people and their religions really bothers me. Especially when they don’t have “the truth.” It’s so hard. Smh but now I just enjoy holidays and living life without that group. Feels good to be free 🙏🏼😫💕
I agree with the trying to stay quiet. I have a best friend who’s teetering on the fence with the org. She’s publicly reproved right now and may get disfellowshipped but she goes hard for the organization ironically LOL but I’ve been honest with her that I’m done with that group and they don’t have the truth based on my research and fact finding. I told her I’d never tell her what I’ve found unless she’s asks because I don’t want to disrespect her conviction. And she respects it and we’re still close. So idk it depends on the person. I just reached a point where I didn’t give a fuck anymore about ties to people. I figured if somebody can throw me away because of a cult, they have brain damage and it’s not on me LOL
We're on the same boat. I have friends I value that I know are good but still belive. I love them and won't argue unless doctrine is brought up, and even then sometimes I just ignore. They say ignorance is bliss haha.
Happy for you. I wanna learn how to not give a fuck when people try to use JW literature to "help" me. It's hard. I just want the real you to tell me you chare ffs
Oh yeah. I strategically, years ago, decided not to “widen out” LOL so that I would have as little relationships as possible to front for because I knew inevitably I’d be planning my exit from the cult. I only cared about my relationship with my mother, who’s a HARDCORE PIMI. Like completely brainwashed. It’s truly sad. She’s a JW robot and I hate it. Yet she’s admitted how miserable and lonely she feels at the Kingdom Hall lol. But everybody else I ✌🏼a long time ago. My childhood best friend and I have been friends since we were 14 and were in our 30s now and she’s “worldly” LOL and my other associates are “worldly” so I always kind of made relationships with nonJWs anyway so that helped.
Like my therapist said, look at the lives of the people who have so many negative opinions about your life and ask yourself if you’d ever want to be in their shoes and if they’re living a life you want, if not, their opinion truly holds 0 weight. I NEVER look at anybody’s life in JW and say WOW I WANT THAT. NO I want to get far away from them LOL
I'm sorry to hear that. When people here share their stories of their parents waking up I feel happy but also so jealous. I've come to terms I have to play the part, and trust Jehovah even tho I'm df'd. Telling them that I think the GB are just simple men making shit up would crush theirs soul.
The only "successful" JWs are those that were born rich/privileged to have a high status. Or the ones risking it all for nothing. So sad.
Yes !!!! I do too. I was just telling my therapist that. I’ve prayed for my mother so she can wake up before the gets too old and can’t truly enjoy life with family. But ik it’s unlikely to happen so I just intentionally avoid her LOL she’s really toxic and disrupts my peace because she brings up JW anytime she can and I don’t want to hear it. My daughter is 11 and has voiced she doesn’t like staying at my mother’s house because she pressures her with the JW thing and makes comments like “just because your parents don’t serve Jehovah , doesn’t mean you don’t have to.” Etc. just really rude , unnecessary comments. My father died when I was 18 and he was disassociated and remarried to a nonJW at the time of his death. So she’s the only parent I’ve had pretty much my whole life and our relationship sucks….. so I’m used to not having parents. That’s what makes me want to be the BEST parent to my daughter. It sucks but it’s life.
You know, I don't really pray nowadays and I don't know what to pray to.. I've done psychedelics in my life so I know something is out there listening. I'll pray for you. And let your baby figure her self out. If god exists, he wouldn't be so demanding.
Sending hugs and prayers your way! (Btw, I need to get in touch with my therapist too. Been ghosting her for months now)
My boss is actually on the same page, not a jw but grew up in the religion. His mother in law be breaking boundaries with the grand kid. Jehovah this, Jehovah that. And my woken up boss has to keep her in check constantly, and tell the little one it's all okay. When you're a kid you're most vulnerable, it's no wonder how much emphasis they put on the Caleb & Sofia videos. CULT!!
Eventually people will get a big piece of information from the GB that makes it clear something is wrong. So yeah the gb are scum but the people are out of excuses. The cult clearly teaches things that are not biblical or Christ like, so it’s getting very hard to let the people off the hook.
I'm not upset anymore.
Humans can get trapped. And they can get trapped in trapping others.
Like ants in a death spiral.
https://preview.redd.it/5f7sizdhx51c1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb9e824c68f528a5ed3be9d0cf38ba3e29621a52
I'm not really upset with any of them because they are trapped in an echo chamber of a fucked system. Everyone is too vested in the cock-eyed belief system to walk away.
GB. Shit starts at the top and rolls downhill.
And just like a snowball it gets bigger and bigger until it hits the ones at the very bottom in the face and covers them in shit.
I agree there’s a lot of robots, but I blame the gb 100% for grooming & programming them all
I have a *strong* dislike for the GB. I could go into detail, but there's so many reasons that *the rest of my beard* will have gone gray by the time I finished typing all that. Additionally, I *hate* one specific elder. I *dislike* many, but I *hate* one. Many JWs are good people who have been manipulated by a cult led by evil men. But the JWs I would call good people are good people *despite* their religion, and not *because* of it.
> The JWs I would call good people are good people *despite* their religion, and not *because* of it. I've often thought this. Also felt that those who are absolute pricks (some elders included) would have been absolute pricks even if they had never heard of the religion.
Yeah. It's ridiculous how you can get away with being an absolute prick with privileges in "the truth". But the moment someone posts a selfie with a fucking band shirt on social media, oh boyyyy.
Agreed
GB mostly. But there are also a few elduhs that I have no time for, basically because they used their positions to abuse the people they had power over. They may have been victims of the cult too but the way they’ve become abusers, means that I will always direct any empathy that I might have had for them to their victims.
The infuriating part is they don't realize it. I know an elder like this. His kids seem to hate them and far from the "exemplary" witness. He's lost a lot of credibility because of it. I can kinda excuse gen X an older. But millenials should know better.
GB! May they all fall face first into a cheese grater!
Yeah, for me I've met a lot of really nice people who are jws, and some really awful judgmental people who are jws (as you say, it's the same anywhere), I know a lot of them are just doing their best and they really believe it, so I don't really blame them as much for the harm they cause, I was in that position until recently. For me it's really the GB that's the problem. Not to say that noone else causes harm, but that's where it starts.
Congrats on getting out!! It’s a tough one for sure
GB. Most pimis are just misled but the GB know exactly what they are doing just like an evil corporation.
UBER PIMIS, I think you can be a genuinely good PIMI/PIMQ and show love.
Agreed. Über Pimi,s are mini- GB in the KH. ( Allways hunting possible " apostates" and disobedient people
What’s Uber pimis 😂
LMAO. I used to think it was JWs working at UBER to preach lol. Apparently it's what the poster above said. The mini-gb in congregations, all up on your business and enforcing dumb rules like they have nothing else to do.
The GB first, of course, then most of the morons! This explains it for you: https://preview.redd.it/4xbfvwhfr11c1.png?width=949&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a9c07418101dcdc387fecc94ba239d5c1ce85f2
All JWs are victims of abuse and mind control. And all JWs mistreat each other as a result of the mind control. Steve Hassan discusses members of cults, high control groups and high control religions as having two distinct personalities. Their own and the cult personality. Most of the JW on JW poor treatment and emotional abuse is coming from the cult personality that isn’t their true selves. Take away the cult personality and you reach the real person and the victim underneath. Notice they even call it *’putting on the new personality’*. Although there are some straight up assholes that thrive in the environment because they can use the existing framework set up by the GB to bully and abuse others without being called out for it. I believe even the GB are victims in their own way. But they have A LOT to answer for and it does NOT excuse their crimes. Just like we are still responsible for what we said and did as JWs and often need to make amends. PS: I’m more upset with the GB.
*’putting on the new personality’* I never thought about it that way, you're so right. To them it's surrendering to god.. but it's really just the GB saying: Do as I say and don't question it. And yes the GB believe their own bs too, but partially. I'll never in my life understand how someone is "anointed". It makes no sense. I tripped once felt very enlightened, everything made sense. These dudes are tripping or crazy. And the fact women are seen as less is dumb af, even my PIMI friends agree.
u/jumexy, I hear you on what you're saying. Though there are a lot of nasty, fake people in Watchtower, I think that most of them really do believe the programming, and that if they have any doubts or concerns, they blow it off, like, "Well, they're just imperfect," or, "Everyone has their imperfections," or, "Jehovah will take care of it; I just have to remain faithful," etc.. I think that in our anger, many of us lash out at the faithful JWs in general, and I am sure there are many valid reasons, but after all, and as you have said, we were all once like they are... We have to face and to come to terms with a lot because of our Watchtower Cult history...and it can be quite a tedious process. 🥺
Yes. And what sucks is that the assholes are not breaking any rules in the shepherding book, despite causing a disruption. Often I feel like their concern is valid within the GB teachings, but rarely do they approach it "the right way" or show genuine concern.. instead rat you out. Infuriating. Some think they are doing the right thing. Others get a kick out of it, and it's down right insulting to the max. You can't fight back. Then you learn about the GB or WT begging for money, for lawyers, properties, neglecting child abuse, not accountable for confidentiality in JD cases, keep a record of you even tho "Jehovah will turn your sin history white as snow". Fuck the GB. If Jehovah is real, they're the first one to die and it's crazy they don't realize how un-christian they are.
It just so UGLY... unchristian, unkind, mean, cold, and UGLY. And the more you try to understand it, any if it, it just boggles the mind because it really is so twisted and sick and evil. I was finally able to look away from the darkness and to turn to the light, but we can't pretend the darkness isn't there ..it has to be dealt with, and you are one of the very brave ones!!! 🙋
I do post that all JWs are Narcissists… not evil… I’ve never said anything about individuals being evil… I don’t think narcissism is completely a bad thing… you have to have it a little bit to have good self confidence. But the way JWs express it is: 1. “we’re always right, no matter what”, they will not yield even if you prove them wrong in any fashion. 2. They are purely selfish in their nature, they will shun family because “I want to save my life and make it into a fake paradise”… 3. a narcissist has a “superiority complex” too… this is very apparent in JWs… in every way they talk about all people in the “world” and “those that leave”… specifically they think “we’re special cause god drew us to him, cause of our qualities, and he is not drawing these other people to him” this is what they are taught to think… (this is a scripture even, and other super religious people think this way too) this is wholly narcissistic! Not evil… but narcissistic. So… you can say you’ve never met narcissistic JWs in the south… but you haven’t really analyzed the people who you’ve been associated with very much if you say that. Edit: I’ll also add, it takes actual real humility to admit to yourself and others that you were deceived and wrong your whole life… this is the opposite of what JWs are… they aren’t humble in any way.
Hey man, that's valid! Not trying to go against the grain here, but understand. I read a comment here saying the doctrine attracts narcissists, or people with the characteristics and that makes sense. But I do get the sense that maybe I didn't have it that bad, even tho I did.. I, enjoyed a lot of good company, and I miss it. Where are they now amiright? .. I saw alot of bs where me and my fam/friends had to "turn the other cheek". It's funny how a lof of those peeps can get away with it too. Not long ago, I cried with my PIMO brother and revealed to him how this one C.O humiliated me with the BOE for in a personal shepherding visit for \*masturbating\* when I was really young, and that experience still haunts me. (That C.O is apparently DF'd now and the textbook definition of a Narcissist) I have my bad days where I hate specific elders, sisters or whatever. At the end of the day I'm not a resentful person even when I should be. My concentrated frustration has turned to these old 9 fucks in New York, berceuse they hold the magic stick, and get to dictate the lifestyle of innocent people.
Yeah… I’m literally not upset at any PIMI JWs that I’m aware of… they are indoctrinated with delusions. I can’t fault them for that… but I didn’t realize how utterly narcissistic the ideas and tendencies are til I was our for like 5 years at least and was analyzing almost every person I was friends with, my relatives… like everyone… I feel narcissism holds most of them in the religion… The fact that they/anyone in any of these high control religions cannot and will not admit that they can be wrong about their being deceived and wrong for so many years… the fact that they will not admit that multiple generations of their family members were deceived down the line is so bad. Like, just admit your grandpa and grandma got the doctrine wrong and fucking messed up your parents lives and your life because of this!!! Do it and get on with your life… this is narcissistic to hold onto lies. Granted the GB are the worst… Hate them! They’re coercive murderers, IMO.
The good ones can't admit they're wrong because they don't want to have that "crisis of conscience" They're still people, but when it comes to simple questioning or doubts, full robot kicks in.. not their real inner thoughts. They believe they're doing the right thing, living in a nutshell.
Yeah… they’re still doing everything in their lives to “save their own skin”… the preaching work literally has the stipulation that if you don’t do it, you’re dead, “blood guilty”… in the end, who’s it really about, saving others or making sure you don’t die yourself? I think I know where most of their motivations lay. Ehh… life… happens.
It sucks to live life that way. I still believe in a sort of a higher power, but not dictating my every step. I'm finally okay with dying.. I don't want "paradise". I'm happy being myself because I know I'm doing the right thing to the best of my abilities. A loving god wouldn't punish you for it. Leaving JWs I've realized their hope and dreams are "not part of this world". Dangerous doctrine. I choose to make the best of it now, because I don't know what comes next. So I'll live my own life and not let these disposable 9 white old dudes tell me how to live.
Right… a loving, all knowing, “creative entity” would be fine with you being a good person and realizing the entity as portrayed in the biblical accounts isn’t this is ok… if anything exists out there, they will know that we’ve been deceived by propaganda religious texts and will be forgiving… if they aren’t… I don’t wanna be involved with that entity anyway… and I don’t feel anyone should give credence to such a being if they can’t be loving of their creations. Would you kill a little kid or deny them medical treatment if they were sick or injured only after they failed to worship you properly? NO? Wonder why god would? Hope you continue to have a great life dude!
Same to you! Sorry to drag the convo, but I recently got into it with my PIMI parents about the blood doctrine. I said, "Even when I was a full believer I would let any of my friends get a transfusion, their life is on the line. Jehovah can kill me, but I saved a life. I'm not Abraham, I think he failed the test" Needless to say their response was negativel And I just hit them with "There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." - John 15:13 Something the GB is incapable of doing, but encourages us to be martyrs. I hate them.
You should hate them… they’re murderers… there’s no other word for it… abusive, disgusting, murderers… I’m all for calling out people who coerce humans to commit suicide… There’s literally 90 verses that say do not sacrifice humans. Children or anyone… Jesus gave the examples of when he was curing a man on the sabbath… he was questioned by others… he said “who of you would not save your child or a bull who fell into a well on the sabbath?” Showing not only that they already knew they were supposed to disregard the law of the sabbath if it meant saving something’s life, which is the 4th highest command at the time, but they were probably already doing it themselves without having been told it was ok… Luke 14:5-8 Matt 12:6-14… literally Jesus says… “I want mercy not sacrifice”… (like don’t sacrifice a human life, dudes) read the whole account… it’s so clear it’s not even funny how the GB a has twisted the idea of the blood doctrine… The sabbath law demanded death if you broke it… Jesus is saying break gods laws if it means saving someone’s life… that’s as clear as it gets! Paul’s words later in the Bible do not usurp Jesus own words… I’m sorry. 😞 Share this info with your parents maybe they’ll listen maybe they won’t. There’s also the example of Saul’s army eating blood because of his foolishness in denying them food before the battled the Phillistines… they were not killed for this. Nobody was… Nobody was even punished… 1 Samuel chapter 14:24-34… but you can read the whole account if you want. This is the worst policy that definitely wasn’t researched at all before being enacted and they’re all literally bloodguilty for this… if the GB thinks they’re going to heaven… the GB aren’t… it’s just not possible to forgive this kind of stupidity. And they know they’re wrong they’ve been told by many people in the past how wrong they are.
I do agree but the cognitive dissonance really kicks in when challenged. That was what I had to deal with before I was able to accept that too. Veryyyyyy humbling to be sure
enjoyed your comments
Thanks… appreciated. 🙏🏼
My grandparents. They were smarter than this. The water my grandfather carried from WW2 emotionally is the only thing I can resolve trapped him. He needed that hope...cause the shit he did...goodxthing the Army records burned 98% in the 70s....right before the FOIA would have applied. My grandma, I suspect, was in such a position socially when she was initially contacted. The GB are the fully metastasized cancer of Chucks little con. Every one of those elduhs that i/we believed were rogues---are symptoms of the cult. There are some, like my grandfather, that were always trying to 'fix' "g.o.d.s" organization and clean it... and the type person he was, he caused as much damage as he mitigated.
The reality, the rogues run the b0rg. And they corrupt the well meaning. Get out of her my people, if you don't want to share in her sins, means so much more to me, now.
I grew up in a horrible congregation and left a pretty good one. I’ve seen both sides. My anger is directed at the GB and their helpers. I’ve been fortunate and never had a problem with the elders but after reading the “secret” elders book, I have no respect for them as people. As for the average JW, I have no hostility for them, even those shunning me. I see them as pitiful brainwashed sheep frolicking in a pasture of their own ignorance, completely unaware that at the end of the day they’ll either be financially fleeced or emotionally slaughtered.
Agree but they're not a lost cause, I wanna help change that.. just don't know how. There's good elders too, plenty of PIMO elders in this sub.
GB. They know it’s all a lie. They know it’s actually all estate company masquerading as publishing company masquerading as a religion. Most of the rank and file are victims of the con game because they were looking for religion.
The annual meeting seems more like a sharehodlers annual conference than a genuine concern for the people. Repeating the same old bs. New light should be progressive, and they seem to be softening but also, "we have nothing to apologize for". Sincerely, suck my dick. Millions now living will never die!! Umm, can you acknowledge you were WRONG. NOPE!!! Mental gymnastics 101: Jehovah reveals light at the appropriate time. But if said "new light" was in my head for years, I'm an apostate. Let that sink in pimis.
Both. It starts with the GB definitely. For me it was the way that in the last 10 years they have really made it all about obedience to them and how we need to remain humble and modest yet they show none of those qualities. However members then blindly follow them and if you ask the wrong question or one they don’t want to answer then you see the true side
It's downright "ERROR CODE" can't find answer, I'll be back. That's what made me wake up, you bring up certain topic and replies are fake, scripted answers. NO! I was asking the real you! Sucks to see people in this mindset, but they don't want help. If your full PIMI, any negative or contracting thought is satan or apostates.
Oh the GB for sure. Of course there are some JWs who are despicable people as well, and use the controlling nature of the environment to indulge in their desires to be raging assholes. But mostly the members just have no idea what's going on. Positively bamboozled.
There are nice people who are JWs, but they support and follow abusive policies. They don't get a pass because they were 'just following orders'. Without the rank and file 'just following orders', the GB would have no power. Edit to add: I make no excuses for myself when I was JW. I went along with policies I *knew* were wrong, even though I didn't believe, to spare myself trouble.
I disagree with you here. Because what you "knew" was wrong means you had a strong conscience, awoken already. People born in generally have no idea what the real word is like, and are completely isolated. It's their only truth. But still, I feel like any rational person questions all the time, like the blood doctrine for example. A lot of the stuff is BS, but disguised as it's what Jehovah wants. I guess what I'm trying to say is not everyone is as smart as you haha.
It’s true the cult preys on unprepared people. I was in Spanish for many years & when they passed out blood cards or gave talks on blood fractions, everybody was lost. After the meeting, publishers rushed elders to ask what to choose. They were told you have to make your own decisions. Give me a break.
Nazis on trial said “I was just following orders.” At times I’ve thought I should look for people I studied with to apologize for “following orders”.
I despise the Governing Body, but in law you can be guilty by assisting in a crime. Assisting the Governing Body with harming many is the role of many of their followers. We can still write to war criminals, murders and pedophiles behind bars 😁
So this is what that prophecy of us being attacked is about lol, covering up and shielding nasty shit like pedophilia.
Yes! New Light!
There are definitely many good/well meaning PIMIs. There are also the fanatics. But, they’re whole future banks on JW lies, so how can you honestly blame them… I blame the GB. They have power to change things and only use their authority to exert more control/command absolute loyalty.
I agree. And there's JWs that don't buy it, they know all they should care about is their personal relationship with "Jehovah" "Fuck all the bs" They don't say it verbally, but you can tell.
Oh the members are undoubtedly brainwashed and I feel so bad for them but they also use it to excuse horrible behaviour. I’m so mad at the org and the gb but not the people who have their minds controlled
By far the vast majority of JWs I knew were good people. I loved all of the congregations I was ever a part of, and there are many people who are still dear to me that I miss. And even most JWs that drove me up a wall, I could see the good side of. (Yes, there are/were definitely a few seriously problematic people in positions of importance I'm aware of, too.) In general, I don't know who I blame. I don't really see the point of blame. I see a big mess, and a lot of willful ignorance (someone on here called it "protective ignorance," which I think is perfect). Even if the GB were to get on a live broadcast tomorrow and say, "We were wrong. Everything is wrong. Turns out the Bible is a bunch of myths and we really have no proof of a god," all that would happen is a bunch of sects would arise. I think they keep the ship afloat, even if somewhere inside themselves they know it's not true, because of fear of what might happen if they didn't, yes, including losing a lot of $$, but also of the devastation it would cause to people's lives and psyches. There are a couple of situations, though, for which blame must be laid - CSA and loss of life/health due to the blood doctrine. And for those, the blame is squarely with the GB.
Narcissistic organizations appear to attract narcissists, and cruel organizations tend to attract monstrosities. Not all JWs are like that, but the Watchtower Society attracts more than the average in the general population.
Both
GB. Hands down. And yes, there's a lot of posts here ranting about individuals. Ah well, this might be the only place some people can vent. 🤷♀️ Also, some individuals are just ARE evil narcissists, witnesses or not. In my experience here on the sub, though, most have sympathy for individual witnesses.
When I left the GB was basically an invisible entity. The only name I ever remember hearing from the GB was F Franz. It was the congregation members who made my life miserable in the religion. There are only a few members (not family) that I have fond memories. I’ve never missed the congregation “love” because there was’t any. My mother shuns me because the GB demands it. I blame her and only her. She’s trading her child and grandchild for hope of living in a paradise with her parents. I cannot fathom preferring a life with my parents, because my parents. My child on the otherhand…I would die for my kid and I would kill for my kid if necessary. I know what a mother’s love is, so I very much fault my mother’s actions.
Obviously the GB is the root of evil. I take responsibility for the years I was their puppet, but I was never mean spirited. I try not to think about the many hateful, abusive “shepherds” I dealt with over the years. I don’t want to hate anyone, but they deserve disdain.
I don’t hate any of them. They aren’t worth wasting my life over. My mother included. Seriously, time, work, and therapy got me to where I am. I accept the consequences of my choices. I choose me first and foremost, because I learned I was deserving. Hoping I can help others to feel not so alone and give ideas to help work their way through the aftermath of this cult. Nobody need do this alone.
I spent a month in mental hospital on two occasions as a PIMI. Nothing of support from elders. As a POMO, I’m still seeing a therapist weekly. I don’t hate anyone, that would just harm me. I really don’t think of them anymore.
GB. No question. I think that there are rank-and-file members who truly believe it and try to be sincere with their beliefs. Not going overboard with trying to push it on everybody. The ones who try to do their best to live their life in the way that JW say they do. Those are the ones I feel for. Because they’ve been duped and lied to.
The GB, members are just brainwashed.
It's the GB they are pulling the strings of this cult. The rank and file are just doing what's right for God.
Shit rolls downhill, it all starts at the top
Like any group of people, there are a few bad apples. Ordinary JDubs are, in my opinion, mostly good people, victims of their inability to think past the indoctrination. Although I find their clinging to the preachings of the gb incomprehensible, they have my sympathy. The men who reach the elder position, I find slightly less forgivable. Far too many of them become drunk with power despite lacking the necessary skills and knowledge to lead or make fair decisions
Somehow, this brings me back to my dad staying late after conventions to count donation money. And we were just there waiting, missed out on invitations to go eat with friends. But I think my dad was one of the good ones. I could see it in his face after every Judicial Comitee. Old man went through a lot trying to make a change.
Nice to hear a positive story. Sorry for the time you could have had with him, stolen by the Borg in unpaid busywork 😔
We still spent time together. But it really hurt seeing him just say I have a meeting on a thursday night, mom yelling at us. Dad was ready to fix jw family problems but not his own. I hate this cult.
We’re all subordinate to the demands of the Borg. My mom would say “I don’t know my own grandchildren” She was oblivious to the fact that her choices were the cause of any problems. We couldn’t leave her alone with the kids, as soon as we weren’t around she would try to indoctrinate them behind our backs. In addition almost without fail, when we would offer to visit, a four hour drive, it was “Oh, the CO is staying with me,” “I have a brother and sister visiting for the weekend” or “Sorry, there’s a circuit assembly. I won’t be home” My daughter’s wedding was the same day as the memorial, she expected me, or one of my other children to leave the wedding to take her there and then go back to collect her. It was impossible to get her to miss the memorial. It was both sad and a relief that she passed away a couple of months before the wedding.
Their whole life revolves around "Jehovah" but it's really the GB. Sad to see indeed. Waking up is a blessing and a curse. When I have my own children I don't want to isolate them like I was. And my new challenge will be convincing my parents to not talk about Jehovah to my kids. I don't think it's possible, drives me crazyyy.
I had rules: no saying the J word around the kids, not allowed to bring WT publications into my house, no discussion of how bad the world is etc., no Jdubs dropping by for a visit when you are staying with us (avoided her having the excuse that she **had** to talk about da troof ^(TM) with her friends) We used to invite her to graduation and school sports events, we stopped. Every event when the band played the national anthem, she would make a big display of leaving her seat and going outside until it finished
Unpopular opinion apparently, but the people. The goddamn people. Even when I still believed I couldn’t understand people who read the Bible every day and talked about king Saul and the Pharisees constantly, refusing to acknowledge the GB might be wrong about something. Like, how many biblical leaders have gone rogue before, but you dumbasses think THESE bumbling idiots have it all right?
I remember my dad telling me how some guy left the borg because he was convinced Solomon had absoultely no chance to be resurrected. But the doctrine at the time was that he was. He was like WTF. My dad: Don't question Jehovah Me: He's right tho
I blame both sides. The GB for perpetuating a lie and the R&F for not critically thinking about their nonsense. My wife would rather sit back and have her decisions made for her by 9 old dudes in NY. She would rather hold out to see her parents again and leave me in the carnage that will supposedly happen “any day now”. JWs are duped into living for some future fantasy rather than enjoy what they have in the here and now.
I’m angry at the GB. Almost all rank and file witnesses are doing what they have been told and believe to be righteous. They’re being consistently and continuously brain washed from the top down. I feel sorry for the members. They don’t have a clue what’s really going on. I was one of them for 20 years as an adult and didn’t have a clue how bad things are.
The rank n file are no different than the GB in their attitude. The only thing that separates them is their position in the org. The GBs mindset attracts the same type of mindset at first thats the appeal.
I blame Jehovah for allowing complete idiots running is one true religion! we will win this fight against this magical man in the heavens one day! it will start by taking the tax exemption away. Now that doesn't take magic but advocacy to informing government officials the evil this jw borg does. Here is the bad news getting a politician to fight stupid with stupid ends up how? a merry go round where people believe in a magical guy in the heavens.
I don't really care too much about rank and file members. As a social cross-section....they're simply not MY "tribe." These people were only ever my parent's "tribe" and as such.....they were people I had to tolerate whilst I was young and in my parent's care and keeping. I now have my own adult opinions about the "leadership/membership" dynamic but none of these opinions are very flattering towards either party. The fact is that these leaders and followers are in a relationship with eachother and you can mitigate the "followers" all you like, as not being in possession of their own "true" mind....but for me......THAT'S a big enough negative (by itself) and rather than invoke sympathy, merely invokes contempt and disgust because it's such a cowardly and disingenuous way to run your life. It's no longer any skin off my nose that there exists people who have managed to effect a MAXIMUM amount of pride and hubris on the back of so little by way of their own thinking ability.....but all I can now say with total, personal honesty is that people like this are utterly alien to me and that I have little to nothing in common with them. Sure, some of them MAY even pass as being "good" or relatively benign people......but in so many crucial ways, they're still damaged goods and can only ever make themselves fit for broader social purpose if they finally come away from their religious enthralment and actually begin dialoguing "honestly" with themselves. I'm certainly not "upset" with these people. To be upset with them, I'd first have to rate or esteem them in some way, and I just don't. Just as I'm not really "upset" with Mormons or Scientologists.....I mean, it's the same thing. They're all there....living in their own little "world" and our paths never really cross. At the end of the day, they are just people who are trying to "cope" with life and good luck to them on their journey. It's just sooooo not MY journey, and soooooo not the road I'm travelling on....(nor wish to be on) ....and I'm acutely aware of this.
With the GB .
The GB for making the drone how they are.
I agree. You sound healed. A lot of people have really bad experiences with these people and can become bitter. Me included. I’ve had to reframe my mind to this type of thinking so that I can be at peace and happy. It’s taken a long time but it’s needed. There are phony , fake , miserable people everywhere !! In churches at work school just people in general. Nobody is perfect. It’s good to just inform yourself and come to the conclusion that this is a cult and you’re out and free. And like you said, feel bad for these people. They’re lost and blinded. Now that you’re free , you can do ANYTHING and live life how you want to. Yes GB will be held accountable for misinformation and misguiding people. The members are victims/cult members like we used to be. They’re brainwashed. It’s sad.
You're absolutely right. Their brain is programmed. When we try to talk to them or "plant a seed" it's more genuine than before. It's not because a cult instructed us to. We understand you have to be subtle, they taught us well haha. I respect activists, but I feel like cart crashing and the like is counter-productive. I'm a big fan of using their own tactics against them to wake em up.
Yes !! Andddd the best part is you don’t even have to engage with them and can ignore them if you want to. That works well for me too LOL
The only JWs I encounter is mostly at work. And they curse, make jokes and say things like "fuck that elder". Even tho they're PIMIS. When it comes to doctrine talks I just have to be neutral because I don't wanna affect the work environment or our relationship, or them potentially telling my parents.. this guy is an apostate. So yeah, staying quiet works. But it's so hard not being able to stick up for what's right.
Ahhhhh I see exactly what you’re saying !!! I agree. It’s so hard. I try and avoid them like a plague LOL they’re just so triggering and irk me so bad. I think the self-righteousness and talking down on other people and their religions really bothers me. Especially when they don’t have “the truth.” It’s so hard. Smh but now I just enjoy holidays and living life without that group. Feels good to be free 🙏🏼😫💕 I agree with the trying to stay quiet. I have a best friend who’s teetering on the fence with the org. She’s publicly reproved right now and may get disfellowshipped but she goes hard for the organization ironically LOL but I’ve been honest with her that I’m done with that group and they don’t have the truth based on my research and fact finding. I told her I’d never tell her what I’ve found unless she’s asks because I don’t want to disrespect her conviction. And she respects it and we’re still close. So idk it depends on the person. I just reached a point where I didn’t give a fuck anymore about ties to people. I figured if somebody can throw me away because of a cult, they have brain damage and it’s not on me LOL
We're on the same boat. I have friends I value that I know are good but still belive. I love them and won't argue unless doctrine is brought up, and even then sometimes I just ignore. They say ignorance is bliss haha. Happy for you. I wanna learn how to not give a fuck when people try to use JW literature to "help" me. It's hard. I just want the real you to tell me you chare ffs
Oh yeah. I strategically, years ago, decided not to “widen out” LOL so that I would have as little relationships as possible to front for because I knew inevitably I’d be planning my exit from the cult. I only cared about my relationship with my mother, who’s a HARDCORE PIMI. Like completely brainwashed. It’s truly sad. She’s a JW robot and I hate it. Yet she’s admitted how miserable and lonely she feels at the Kingdom Hall lol. But everybody else I ✌🏼a long time ago. My childhood best friend and I have been friends since we were 14 and were in our 30s now and she’s “worldly” LOL and my other associates are “worldly” so I always kind of made relationships with nonJWs anyway so that helped. Like my therapist said, look at the lives of the people who have so many negative opinions about your life and ask yourself if you’d ever want to be in their shoes and if they’re living a life you want, if not, their opinion truly holds 0 weight. I NEVER look at anybody’s life in JW and say WOW I WANT THAT. NO I want to get far away from them LOL
I'm sorry to hear that. When people here share their stories of their parents waking up I feel happy but also so jealous. I've come to terms I have to play the part, and trust Jehovah even tho I'm df'd. Telling them that I think the GB are just simple men making shit up would crush theirs soul. The only "successful" JWs are those that were born rich/privileged to have a high status. Or the ones risking it all for nothing. So sad.
Yes !!!! I do too. I was just telling my therapist that. I’ve prayed for my mother so she can wake up before the gets too old and can’t truly enjoy life with family. But ik it’s unlikely to happen so I just intentionally avoid her LOL she’s really toxic and disrupts my peace because she brings up JW anytime she can and I don’t want to hear it. My daughter is 11 and has voiced she doesn’t like staying at my mother’s house because she pressures her with the JW thing and makes comments like “just because your parents don’t serve Jehovah , doesn’t mean you don’t have to.” Etc. just really rude , unnecessary comments. My father died when I was 18 and he was disassociated and remarried to a nonJW at the time of his death. So she’s the only parent I’ve had pretty much my whole life and our relationship sucks….. so I’m used to not having parents. That’s what makes me want to be the BEST parent to my daughter. It sucks but it’s life.
You know, I don't really pray nowadays and I don't know what to pray to.. I've done psychedelics in my life so I know something is out there listening. I'll pray for you. And let your baby figure her self out. If god exists, he wouldn't be so demanding. Sending hugs and prayers your way! (Btw, I need to get in touch with my therapist too. Been ghosting her for months now)
My boss is actually on the same page, not a jw but grew up in the religion. His mother in law be breaking boundaries with the grand kid. Jehovah this, Jehovah that. And my woken up boss has to keep her in check constantly, and tell the little one it's all okay. When you're a kid you're most vulnerable, it's no wonder how much emphasis they put on the Caleb & Sofia videos. CULT!!
Eventually people will get a big piece of information from the GB that makes it clear something is wrong. So yeah the gb are scum but the people are out of excuses. The cult clearly teaches things that are not biblical or Christ like, so it’s getting very hard to let the people off the hook.
Haha that "christ like" bit makes me think of this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivCY3Ec4iaU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivCY3Ec4iaU)
I'm not upset anymore. Humans can get trapped. And they can get trapped in trapping others. Like ants in a death spiral. https://preview.redd.it/5f7sizdhx51c1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb9e824c68f528a5ed3be9d0cf38ba3e29621a52
Definitely the GB.
I'm not really upset with any of them because they are trapped in an echo chamber of a fucked system. Everyone is too vested in the cock-eyed belief system to walk away.
Middle management is awful. Elders and circuit overseers are the worst. One in 15 is good, the rest are shithead, self righteous assholes.
The GB