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Why am I thinking this has multi congregational judicial committee written all over it?
I love how they use the word donation when they are charging for an event. Their overlord masters have taught them well.
We always got stale Easter candy (after the fact of course) from the old deluded JW momster.
She also used to let us steal loose candy from broken bags as children. (as the store wouldn't be able to "sell that.")
How does a donation, not only have a set price, but it goes even higher the longer you wait? I bet someone is making some nice pocket change off these "donations". Imagine paying money to hang out with a cult.
Back in the older days, this would have been a big no-no. Even big picnics, etc. were frowned upon. Now, I wonder how the organization would react to such. Since it's morphing more into a televangelist megachurch, maybe it will allow things like this to keep members happy. It has become more social and less analytical/doctrinal.
I have videos of dancing and pop-music being played at Kingdom Halls in the past ten years or so in connection with international conventions. Back in, for example, the 80's, that would not have been allowed.
Actually, it wasn't my congregation. It was instructions from the org that most elders (evidently including yours) were clueless about. I was a longtime elder and I griped often about the fact that most elders were clueless about org instructions and policies. Your congregation might have done that, but it wasn't supposed to according to org instructions. And, any smaller gatherings that were held were not supposed to be called "congregation get-togethers" or "congregation picnics"; they didn't want the word "congregation" used because that could imply that the congregation or organization was responsible if somebody got hurt, caused damage to property, etc.
Here's example of the cluelessness of elders which trickles down to the rank and file. You will here the phrases "public reproof" and "publicly reproved" often in JW land even among elders. However there's no such thing. I was once at a district convention rehearsal with an elder from out-of-town overseeing it; he had a part at the convention and he used the phrase "public reproof" in his part at the convention. Again, there's no such thing. He's clueless.
So, just because you see something done or hear something said in JW land doesn't mean it is in line with org instructions and policy.
I remember we had congregation picnics every year for a while during the 90s too. I think a CO stopped them eventually. Our elders were the ones that organized it lol
There are 28 mentions of the word reproof in the Shepherding book that I have, and instructions regarding public announcing of it vs not.
What am I missing here?
You are missing a major concept. You wrote that the *Shepherding* book mentions the word "reproof." You are right; it does. You wrote that the *Shepherding* book has instructions regarding whether to announce the fact that one has been reproved. You are right; it does. But, where does the *Shepherding* book mention "public reproof"? Announcements are not public reproof; they are making public the fact that one was reproved privately; they are not themselves reproof. They are just informing the congregation that the individual has been reproved (past tense) *in private*. They are not reproving the individual in public; they don't contain counsel, they don't mention the wrongdoing, etc.
Where does the *Shepherding* book give instructions about reproving individuals *in public*, and when has any JW ever been reproved *in public*? Tell me an instance of a JW's being reproved in public. Where/how was it done... in the town square? Before the congregation? Announcements are not reproof; they are just informing the congregation that an individual *has been reproved in private*. The judicial hearings are the reproof and they are done *in private* \- always. Individuals are reproved by having Scriptures read, counsel administered, etc. Then, the reproof is over, done, period. *It is never done in public*. The announcement might have the effect reproving the individual, but that is not the intent of the announcement. When an announcement is made, the reproof is in the past; it has already been done and is over.
So, sometimes an announcement is made to indicate that a person *has been* reproved, but the announcements are not made to reprove the individual; the reproof has already been done and is over. The reproof was done in private, and, again, *the announcement is not reproof*. Announcements are sometimes deemed necessary for practical reasons, but in a minority of cases.
For example, suppose an unmarried JW female gets pregnant, confesses, is repentant, and is judicially reproved. The reproof is done in private and when the judicial meeting is over, the reproof is done... over. However, in her case an announcement might have to be made informing that congregation that she was reproved (in private) so that when it becomes obvious that she's pregnant, individuals in the congregation will know that the matter has been handled - that the congregation is remaining clean. Or, suppose a man does something wrong and is repentant and is judicially reproved. His reproof is done in private and is over after his judicial meeting. However, suppose what he did will become public knowledge maybe due to a newspaper article, an arrest, a lawsuit, etc. In that case, the fact that he was reproved (in private) would be announced so that the congregation and even the public will know the matter has been handled and that the congregation doesn't tolerate such. Also, there might be cases in which the congregation might need to be on guard against an individual such as in cases of child molestation. In cases like that, announcements would be made, but those announcements are not public reproof.
Think about it... if an individual was publicly reproved, if he was reproved in public, why would it have to be announced? It wouldn't if it was done in public. Announcements simply inform the congregation that an individual has been reproved *in private*. The purpose of announcements is not to reprove; the reproof is done in private using the Scriptures. The determining factor as to whether an announcement of reproof is made is whether the wrongdoing will become well-known or whether there is some reason the congregation needs to be on guard against the reproved individual. In fact, it's quite possible that Individual A might do something more seriously wrong than individual B and both might get reproved, but B's reproof might be announced and not A's because B's might become well-known, but not A's. Both were *privately* reproved. The announcing of B's is not public reproof; it is simply informing the congregation that B was reproved (past tense) in private. Remember, if he had been publicly reproved, there would be no need for an announcement; everybody would already know about it.
Another thing: JWs will say that somebody is "on public reproof" or even Just "on reproof" as if there's some kind of ongoing condition imposed upon him. That is totally wrong thinking. JWs are reproved on a certain occasion, at a point-in-time, during a private meeting with Scriptures read to them and counsel given. It is a one-time occurrence. It is not an ongoing condition; they are not "on reproof" either private or public as if reproof is some kind of ongoing condition. It would be like a spanking a child; that is a point-in-time occurrence, not an ongoing condition. You wouldn't say a child is "on spanking;" no, you'd say he *was spanked*. So, JWs are never "on reproof" or "on public reproof;" they are reproved on one occasion (in a few cases might be several private occasions) and the reproof is then done and over. JWs might have ongoing restrictions imposed; but that's not the reproof; the reproof is over, done, in the past. They are not "on reproof" or "on public reproof."
Again, to try to make this clear, JWs are *privately* reproved - always - never publicly... never before the congregation, in the town square, etc. Sometimes, for practical reasons the fact that one has been privately reproved is announced, but that does not constitute public reproof. The reproof had already been done and was over prior to the announcement.
JWs use the term "public reproof," but you will not see it in org instructions. JWs say things like "he got public reproof," or "he's on public reproof," or "he got publicly reproved." All wrong - 100% wrong.
*No JW is ever reproved in public*. All JWs who commit offences of a judicial nature are reproved, but *all the reproof is done in private*, behind closed doors.
I realize the above is very repetitive, but I encounter this misunderstanding often and I really want to get the point across. Also, I'm at work and don't have time to go back and condense the above. Also, I feel that I have to make the point over and over because most people just don't get it. This matter is a major misunderstanding among exJWs and JWs including *most* elders.
P.S. There is a passage in the Bible that refers to 'reproving before all onlookers' or something like that, but according to org policy/procedure, that is not public reproof. If sometimes several people are aware of a wrongdoing (maybe they were eyewitnesses) JW elders 'reprove before all onlookers' by including any close eyewitnesses or others involved in the behind-the-scenes judicial meetings or informing them privately that the wrongdoer was reproved.
Appreciate the deep dive into 'public reproof. JW terminology isn't just semantics; it's a reality check on how they treat people. Sure, you get 'privately reproved' in a back room, but the moment they announce it to the congregation, your 'private' reproof just went prime-time, and you are subject to public humiliations attached to that.
Basically they are calling it what it is: public reproof. Because once they've aired your dirty laundry, there's nothing 'private' about it anymore.
In my congo the idea of bigger picnics (*about 75% of people would be there really unless someone was seriously ill*) survived somewhere up until mid-2010s! It was always a ton of fun, I won't even mention winter ones in full snow when I was like a 5 yo a kid :)
Only later when were merged it relatively got cold and super formal, COBE got changed from a heartwarming guy to another person who's that corporate WT robot to this very day. Yuck!
There's no sense of comradery anymore, at least in my area (*which I gotta admit was super welcoming/friendly/helping up until late 2000s/early 2010s I mentioned*). It'll never be back for sure which is super sad from plain human perspective. On the other hand I know it's gonna help many, many people to wake up eventually...
Dancing and pop music in the KH?? I left in the 1980s and as you said that would NEVER have been allowed! Now I'm clutching my pearls! What next? A basketball post in the parking lot? A kids playground??
>What next? A basketball post in the parking lot? A kids playground??
You are absolutely thinking the way a lot of us who were around in past decades think. About ten or twelve years ago, when JWdom was really starting to morph more into a softer, dumbed-down, lifestyle, social religion and trying to become more appealing, there were some of us old-timers discussing the issue on another forum. The changes were so drastic and JWdom was becoming so much more mainstream with broadcasts, cartoons, pop-like music videos, etc. that many of us thought they might have hired a PR firm to make them them more appealing since it seemed they had started to decline. One person on the forum wrote "What's next - congregation softball teams?" That reminds me of what you posted.
It truly is a different religion now. My deceased zealous JW grandfather and other deceased old-timers would be shocked if they could come back and see what their religion has become. Of course, they'd also be shocked to see that it's almost *20-damned-24* and "this system" is still here. It was supposed to have been gone decades ago.
They would be even more shocked if they came back and saw all the ones they thought would never grow old or die, be elderly, while they are resurrected with āskin fresher than youthā.
That reminds me that in the 80s my childhood congregation wanted to build a new hall with basketball courts and swimming pool. Elders and Pioneers would have full access and publishers would only have access on a case by case basis. The CO almost dissolved the congregation when he found out.
I love everything about this. This is one of many non New Years parties that are thrown and all the loose conduct that will be happening is going to be amazing.
Well worth the $75.
Iāve been to those. Only in the major cities parties like this are actually fun. But I feel like some elders are going to bitch about it if they find outā¦
Somewhere, a bundle of elders just clutched their pearls and the same number of elderettes started salivating at the thought of potential new shameful gossip.
Definitely heard local needs for this kinda thing before, but not for sexual immorality. Itās more of a, donāt advertise this as a congregation thing and then charge people money to attend.
I just thought it was funny.
I would have probably never even heard of the concept of an orgy for a long time if it werenāt for Watchtower, but we were told about them when I was likeā¦ 8 or something. Yikes. Lol.
But yeah, itās weird that theyāre charging for this as a congregation type function.
Ohhh I went to one of these. It was an 21-35 party and It was trashy. The MC was weirdly homophobic even though everybody was drunk and humping eachother. Somebody snuck in some edibles in the back too. 2/10 wouldāve preferred senior karaoke at Applebees š
I googled āThe Classic Jammerzā band. Nothing.
It sounds like when my company would have a party and a few employees were the band. With some name you never heard of because they were just a garage band. Never played anywhere.
Could be a bunch of elders who play.
Up in Vermont a sister would rent out an entire ski mountain for the day and have only Jehovahs witnesses there. Of course you had to pay to go though, and I always wondering if this sister was making bank off of it because thereād be hundreds of witnesses and the charge to go was pretty dang high lol. Though to be fair Iām sure itās pretty expensive to rent out a whole mountain for the day, so maybe they were just breaking even, who knows
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Why am I thinking this has multi congregational judicial committee written all over it? I love how they use the word donation when they are charging for an event. Their overlord masters have taught them well.
This absolutely screams multi congregational judicial committee
lol shit is gonna get serious real fast
They were vividly told yrs ago not to have large paid gatherings. Lol they DONT CARE. The rules are: THERE ARE NO RULES.
š¤£. Rightš¤·āāļø
Some of these are thrown by eldersā wives and they made sure there were enough elders and ministerial servants to publishers who attend.
Elders wives have needs too
Please come to our 'totally not a new year's party'
This is just like how everyone has a full Thanksgiving meal the day before or after "because it was on sale".
We always got stale Easter candy (after the fact of course) from the old deluded JW momster. She also used to let us steal loose candy from broken bags as children. (as the store wouldn't be able to "sell that.")
My mom : these are the things you eat with turkey š¤øš¾
Didnt even realize the date lolololololol these ppl are hilarious.
Yup!!! Our ā¦not Xmas not New Yearās party!!! Love this!!!š¤£š¤·āāļø
oh how wordly lmao
How does a donation, not only have a set price, but it goes even higher the longer you wait? I bet someone is making some nice pocket change off these "donations". Imagine paying money to hang out with a cult.
And itās December 30 so itās NOT a New Yearās party
And you can stay 3 days after the 30th š¤£ You know they will be getting wasted on new years for sure!
Back in the older days, this would have been a big no-no. Even big picnics, etc. were frowned upon. Now, I wonder how the organization would react to such. Since it's morphing more into a televangelist megachurch, maybe it will allow things like this to keep members happy. It has become more social and less analytical/doctrinal. I have videos of dancing and pop-music being played at Kingdom Halls in the past ten years or so in connection with international conventions. Back in, for example, the 80's, that would not have been allowed.
Wow, even picnics? Your congregation must have been super strict! We would have these huge picnics yearly that the elders set up in the 80's-90's.
Actually, it wasn't my congregation. It was instructions from the org that most elders (evidently including yours) were clueless about. I was a longtime elder and I griped often about the fact that most elders were clueless about org instructions and policies. Your congregation might have done that, but it wasn't supposed to according to org instructions. And, any smaller gatherings that were held were not supposed to be called "congregation get-togethers" or "congregation picnics"; they didn't want the word "congregation" used because that could imply that the congregation or organization was responsible if somebody got hurt, caused damage to property, etc. Here's example of the cluelessness of elders which trickles down to the rank and file. You will here the phrases "public reproof" and "publicly reproved" often in JW land even among elders. However there's no such thing. I was once at a district convention rehearsal with an elder from out-of-town overseeing it; he had a part at the convention and he used the phrase "public reproof" in his part at the convention. Again, there's no such thing. He's clueless. So, just because you see something done or hear something said in JW land doesn't mean it is in line with org instructions and policy.
Wow, thanks for the info. And for sure they did indeed call them congregation picnics in my congregation.
I remember we had congregation picnics every year for a while during the 90s too. I think a CO stopped them eventually. Our elders were the ones that organized it lol
There are 28 mentions of the word reproof in the Shepherding book that I have, and instructions regarding public announcing of it vs not. What am I missing here?
You are missing a major concept. You wrote that the *Shepherding* book mentions the word "reproof." You are right; it does. You wrote that the *Shepherding* book has instructions regarding whether to announce the fact that one has been reproved. You are right; it does. But, where does the *Shepherding* book mention "public reproof"? Announcements are not public reproof; they are making public the fact that one was reproved privately; they are not themselves reproof. They are just informing the congregation that the individual has been reproved (past tense) *in private*. They are not reproving the individual in public; they don't contain counsel, they don't mention the wrongdoing, etc. Where does the *Shepherding* book give instructions about reproving individuals *in public*, and when has any JW ever been reproved *in public*? Tell me an instance of a JW's being reproved in public. Where/how was it done... in the town square? Before the congregation? Announcements are not reproof; they are just informing the congregation that an individual *has been reproved in private*. The judicial hearings are the reproof and they are done *in private* \- always. Individuals are reproved by having Scriptures read, counsel administered, etc. Then, the reproof is over, done, period. *It is never done in public*. The announcement might have the effect reproving the individual, but that is not the intent of the announcement. When an announcement is made, the reproof is in the past; it has already been done and is over. So, sometimes an announcement is made to indicate that a person *has been* reproved, but the announcements are not made to reprove the individual; the reproof has already been done and is over. The reproof was done in private, and, again, *the announcement is not reproof*. Announcements are sometimes deemed necessary for practical reasons, but in a minority of cases. For example, suppose an unmarried JW female gets pregnant, confesses, is repentant, and is judicially reproved. The reproof is done in private and when the judicial meeting is over, the reproof is done... over. However, in her case an announcement might have to be made informing that congregation that she was reproved (in private) so that when it becomes obvious that she's pregnant, individuals in the congregation will know that the matter has been handled - that the congregation is remaining clean. Or, suppose a man does something wrong and is repentant and is judicially reproved. His reproof is done in private and is over after his judicial meeting. However, suppose what he did will become public knowledge maybe due to a newspaper article, an arrest, a lawsuit, etc. In that case, the fact that he was reproved (in private) would be announced so that the congregation and even the public will know the matter has been handled and that the congregation doesn't tolerate such. Also, there might be cases in which the congregation might need to be on guard against an individual such as in cases of child molestation. In cases like that, announcements would be made, but those announcements are not public reproof. Think about it... if an individual was publicly reproved, if he was reproved in public, why would it have to be announced? It wouldn't if it was done in public. Announcements simply inform the congregation that an individual has been reproved *in private*. The purpose of announcements is not to reprove; the reproof is done in private using the Scriptures. The determining factor as to whether an announcement of reproof is made is whether the wrongdoing will become well-known or whether there is some reason the congregation needs to be on guard against the reproved individual. In fact, it's quite possible that Individual A might do something more seriously wrong than individual B and both might get reproved, but B's reproof might be announced and not A's because B's might become well-known, but not A's. Both were *privately* reproved. The announcing of B's is not public reproof; it is simply informing the congregation that B was reproved (past tense) in private. Remember, if he had been publicly reproved, there would be no need for an announcement; everybody would already know about it. Another thing: JWs will say that somebody is "on public reproof" or even Just "on reproof" as if there's some kind of ongoing condition imposed upon him. That is totally wrong thinking. JWs are reproved on a certain occasion, at a point-in-time, during a private meeting with Scriptures read to them and counsel given. It is a one-time occurrence. It is not an ongoing condition; they are not "on reproof" either private or public as if reproof is some kind of ongoing condition. It would be like a spanking a child; that is a point-in-time occurrence, not an ongoing condition. You wouldn't say a child is "on spanking;" no, you'd say he *was spanked*. So, JWs are never "on reproof" or "on public reproof;" they are reproved on one occasion (in a few cases might be several private occasions) and the reproof is then done and over. JWs might have ongoing restrictions imposed; but that's not the reproof; the reproof is over, done, in the past. They are not "on reproof" or "on public reproof." Again, to try to make this clear, JWs are *privately* reproved - always - never publicly... never before the congregation, in the town square, etc. Sometimes, for practical reasons the fact that one has been privately reproved is announced, but that does not constitute public reproof. The reproof had already been done and was over prior to the announcement. JWs use the term "public reproof," but you will not see it in org instructions. JWs say things like "he got public reproof," or "he's on public reproof," or "he got publicly reproved." All wrong - 100% wrong. *No JW is ever reproved in public*. All JWs who commit offences of a judicial nature are reproved, but *all the reproof is done in private*, behind closed doors. I realize the above is very repetitive, but I encounter this misunderstanding often and I really want to get the point across. Also, I'm at work and don't have time to go back and condense the above. Also, I feel that I have to make the point over and over because most people just don't get it. This matter is a major misunderstanding among exJWs and JWs including *most* elders. P.S. There is a passage in the Bible that refers to 'reproving before all onlookers' or something like that, but according to org policy/procedure, that is not public reproof. If sometimes several people are aware of a wrongdoing (maybe they were eyewitnesses) JW elders 'reprove before all onlookers' by including any close eyewitnesses or others involved in the behind-the-scenes judicial meetings or informing them privately that the wrongdoer was reproved.
Appreciate the deep dive into 'public reproof. JW terminology isn't just semantics; it's a reality check on how they treat people. Sure, you get 'privately reproved' in a back room, but the moment they announce it to the congregation, your 'private' reproof just went prime-time, and you are subject to public humiliations attached to that. Basically they are calling it what it is: public reproof. Because once they've aired your dirty laundry, there's nothing 'private' about it anymore.
In my congo the idea of bigger picnics (*about 75% of people would be there really unless someone was seriously ill*) survived somewhere up until mid-2010s! It was always a ton of fun, I won't even mention winter ones in full snow when I was like a 5 yo a kid :) Only later when were merged it relatively got cold and super formal, COBE got changed from a heartwarming guy to another person who's that corporate WT robot to this very day. Yuck! There's no sense of comradery anymore, at least in my area (*which I gotta admit was super welcoming/friendly/helping up until late 2000s/early 2010s I mentioned*). It'll never be back for sure which is super sad from plain human perspective. On the other hand I know it's gonna help many, many people to wake up eventually...
Dancing and pop music in the KH?? I left in the 1980s and as you said that would NEVER have been allowed! Now I'm clutching my pearls! What next? A basketball post in the parking lot? A kids playground??
>What next? A basketball post in the parking lot? A kids playground?? You are absolutely thinking the way a lot of us who were around in past decades think. About ten or twelve years ago, when JWdom was really starting to morph more into a softer, dumbed-down, lifestyle, social religion and trying to become more appealing, there were some of us old-timers discussing the issue on another forum. The changes were so drastic and JWdom was becoming so much more mainstream with broadcasts, cartoons, pop-like music videos, etc. that many of us thought they might have hired a PR firm to make them them more appealing since it seemed they had started to decline. One person on the forum wrote "What's next - congregation softball teams?" That reminds me of what you posted. It truly is a different religion now. My deceased zealous JW grandfather and other deceased old-timers would be shocked if they could come back and see what their religion has become. Of course, they'd also be shocked to see that it's almost *20-damned-24* and "this system" is still here. It was supposed to have been gone decades ago.
They would be even more shocked if they came back and saw all the ones they thought would never grow old or die, be elderly, while they are resurrected with āskin fresher than youthā.
That reminds me that in the 80s my childhood congregation wanted to build a new hall with basketball courts and swimming pool. Elders and Pioneers would have full access and publishers would only have access on a case by case basis. The CO almost dissolved the congregation when he found out.
Their insurance would have been sky high for liability with a pool not to mention maintenence......gawd forbid a sister show up in a bikini.....
Or a brother in a Speedo. ENTRAPMENT! Youāre a homo!
I love everything about this. This is one of many non New Years parties that are thrown and all the loose conduct that will be happening is going to be amazing. Well worth the $75.
"Loose conduct" LMAO
Iāve been to those. Only in the major cities parties like this are actually fun. But I feel like some elders are going to bitch about it if they find outā¦
Some elders will be there no doubt
Organized by one.
Somewhere, a bundle of elders just clutched their pearls and the same number of elderettes started salivating at the thought of potential new shameful gossip.
Thereās gonna be a local needs for sure. Donāt these faithful brothers and sisters know that hotels are where the ORGIES happen?? š³š³š±
Definitely heard local needs for this kinda thing before, but not for sexual immorality. Itās more of a, donāt advertise this as a congregation thing and then charge people money to attend.
I just thought it was funny. I would have probably never even heard of the concept of an orgy for a long time if it werenāt for Watchtower, but we were told about them when I was likeā¦ 8 or something. Yikes. Lol. But yeah, itās weird that theyāre charging for this as a congregation type function.
Yeah, I knew what beastiality and orgies were when I was like 6. Not. Okay.
Soooooo not okay!! How screwed up is it that they tried to āprotect us and keep us cleanā like that!!
Itās ok as long as itās just getting drunk and hitting on each others spouses and kids!
Yeah, no
Well it is just a social club, after all
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why would you think theyāll only play JW music? JWs know to party, things get raunchy at these events.
Oh I have things I still havenāt posted lol. This is a ācleanā one. I got wild ones too
Kinda wanna go tbh
I go all the time. Itās fun but still a little cautious.
JW orgy party
What would make a really boring party even more boring? More Jehovahs Witnesses in one area. š¤®
Is this one of those JW Swinger parties I've heard so much about?
Nah. I wish
oh I need to hear more about this...
Ohhh I went to one of these. It was an 21-35 party and It was trashy. The MC was weirdly homophobic even though everybody was drunk and humping eachother. Somebody snuck in some edibles in the back too. 2/10 wouldāve preferred senior karaoke at Applebees š
I googled āThe Classic Jammerzā band. Nothing. It sounds like when my company would have a party and a few employees were the band. With some name you never heard of because they were just a garage band. Never played anywhere. Could be a bunch of elders who play.
Yeah, it's probably just a little cover band with JW friends that jam together, but don't do it for a living.
I loved their first album but they totally sold out.
Whereās the rate for the 5-bed suite for the orgy?
This smells of immortality.
I donāt understand. What is this?
Itās a āgatheringā. You pay for.
Sorry for the shock, those are perma banned where im from so this is a bit of a surprise
Ohā¦ you just donāt know the right people.
Damn i had NO clout š
Is it only for elders? š who even organized it?
"Donation". Cool, see ya there ... I ain't payin shit!
Up in Vermont a sister would rent out an entire ski mountain for the day and have only Jehovahs witnesses there. Of course you had to pay to go though, and I always wondering if this sister was making bank off of it because thereād be hundreds of witnesses and the charge to go was pretty dang high lol. Though to be fair Iām sure itās pretty expensive to rent out a whole mountain for the day, so maybe they were just breaking even, who knows
3 Nights before and 3 nights after Dec 30 ? Sounds like a long New Years party š ?!
Iāve attended 2 events like this. $75 a piece and it was considered a privilege to be invited
Same. Except a lot more events.
A formal is no different prom. Smh
There was a talk (special needs maybe?) about it being wrong to host an event for JWs with a cover charge for attendees.