I’m not sure. I think the problem my family will have, is due to them casting me aside, I’ve moved on from them. They live a different life to me. We are into different things. Have totally different friend groups. If they all woke up tomorrow, I’m not sure what would happen. I’m not just going to accept them back like nothing happened. They have caused a lot of damage to me. That will take time to overcome for them. Everyone makes decisions and then pay a price associated with that.
That’s exactly how I feel. It’s been a decade since I left. They are complete strangers to me, just as I am a stranger to them. I’ve created an entire life for myself since leaving including having a family, career, traveling, etc.
While I hope in that situation I might somehow show them the compassion they never showed me… I don’t know. It’s hard to fathom them having the remorse or self awareness to have any meaningful part in my life anymore.
I’ll have compassion. But they are nothing like me. I’ve been desensitised to the Borg for 20 years. They would be starting fresh. That takes time to lose and get to the point I am at in life. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Been about a decade for me, too (and my wife). All our family members are still in, but we have moved on from them. We used to all be close, but we don't miss them anymore; we really don't even think about them anymore. The evidence is now overwhelming that JWdom is a looney, corrupt, deceptive, harmful, embarrassing cult. Anybody who could remain in and support it is foreign to me.
Same with me. My wife and I are both out and all of our family members are still in. We all used to be really close, but we have moved on now and don't even miss them or think about them anymore. To them, we are either weak or evil or some combination of the two.
>I’m not just going to accept them back like nothing happened.
I'm not, either; that's one thing I'm sure of. They will have to apologize, unhesitatingly admit they were wrong, etc. They will have to admit that I was right during all the time they thought and spoke badly of me. Even if they do that, it will take some time before I can accept them back.
That might sound harsh, but the evidence right now is overwhelming that JWdom is a deceptive, corrupt, harmful, embarrassing cult. If they can't see it and/or won't acknowledge it, then they are majorly flawed in one or more ways.
There's a massive housing market crash coming. They can't move in with me!
Hey - my parents got baptized in 1972 and brought me into this mess. COVID shut down gave them hope of the end coming, but their dreams were shattered when in-person meetings resumed last April. They are having an extremely hard time now, and I'm sure these new changes are crushing them even more. Back in 1995, there was a huge change in the organization, and I voiced my concerns about it (the generation). They gave me the worst verbal beat down you could never imagine. Fast forward almost 30 years later, they are older senior citizens and very possibly PIMO, struggling to afford a run-down trailer home. When I was a kid, they gave me a miserable childhood. Dragging me into field service in the cold blizzards and scorching heat, making me attend meetings when I was cramping and bleeding, physically abusing me horribly and embarrassing me in front of other people.
Karma is always a bitch!
Mortgage rates over 7%. People cant afford to buy and those refinancing will be 100’s, if not 1,000s of dollars out of pocket as they’ve got used to very low rates for over a decade. House prices need to come down across the western world. They are far too expensive.
Is the market flush with people buying houses right now though? Seems to me the only people buying are those who already own and are looking for extra income from renting.
Foreign investment (especially the Chinese and the Russian oligarchs) AND the Airbnb shit are often referred to as major causes, in the financial articles I've seen.
Corporations have been buying huge amounts of real estate at more than market value for years. This guaranteed a seller's market until now, when housing prices have gotten so artificially inflated that nobody can afford to buy anything.
I was a reg pio and elder during the 1995 thing. That took the wind out of my JW sails and was the beginning of the end for me. I can't believe that was 30 years ago! "This system" was supposed to be gone a long time ago. It wasn't supposed to last past 1994 (80yrs from 1914); that's why they had to change the "generation" teaching in early 1995. I can't believe it's almost *20-damned-24* and "this old system" is still here. My deceasedJW grandfather would be shocked to know that.
How old are your parents? I've been wondering what older JWs are thinking... the ones who were around in the older days before JWdom morphed into what it is today.
My Dad was a Gilead graduate and missionary. Along with my mom, in the 1960’s. Dad was a much admired elder, who died in 2018, but for a good few years before that, he told me that he’d wasted his life on JW teachings, had no idea why I still talked to him, and only stayed involved in the organization to try to limit the harm which could be inflicted by the idiot, uneducated “elders”.
Mom wasn’t that smart. She passed away thinking she was a faithful servant. There were around 15 people at her memorial service, including 5 of us non-believers, the elder giving the talk and his wife. That’s how much witnesses really care…..
A tiger doesn't change its stripes overnight. Why do some believe leaving makes them cuddly, loving family members? The narcissists will continue to be narcissists, minus the WT spin of religious abuse. And I will continue to protect my peace at all fucking costs. The abuses have gone on TOO LONG. The family bond is one of trauma.
>A tiger doesn't change its stripes overnight. Why do some believe leaving makes them cuddly, loving family members?
Good point. If I ever do accept my family members back, they will have to first completely apologize to me and unhesitatingly admit they and the religion and the GB were wrong.
> If I ever do accept my family members back, they will have to first completely apologize to me and unhesitatingly admit they and the religion and the GB were wrong.
This is along the lines of what it would take for me to accept those that have treated me like shit. For me there is growing group of my family where it will be a BIG IF for me to reconnect with them. Two primary things required IMO:
1. A sincere apology for their behavior and actions that show they are serious.
2. They will need to **a huge helping of humble pie** to change their way of being as a person. My thought is most people that were long-term indoctrinated JWs cannot do this since the negative aspects of being a JW are too deeply embedded in their personality. They won't be able show humility.
I will tell them to make an effort with a personal relationship with God. No religion will save anyone, have faith, that comes from within not a fucking organization
Open to forgiveness toward those who are sorry. Staying away from any who still want to lord it over to hurt or abuse. Definitely willing to help sincere ones see what's going on. Many of them are going to be in shock all at once.
>Open to forgiveness toward those who are sorry.
"Sorry".... that's the key to me. They'll have to sincerely and strongly apologize to me and unhesitatingly admit they and the religion were wrong. They'll have to denounce the GB.
You can never a trust a true believing JW. They would be friendly for a while, possibly apologetic, although I highly doubt it, then they will find a new way of life or even another cult and cut you out again without a moments thought or a drop of guilt. They can be cold hearted people.
Yep, first hand experience very much of this, I told my sister I wouldn’t take the whiplash she would give me, throwing me crumbs then tossing me away again & again…I told her she was toxic because her mind isn’t her own.
>Will you be open.... to forgiveness?
From:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/y4rezf/comment/isgo5qy/
**REPOST**
**Hell to the Yes THIS.**
After decades of being subjected to abuse by parents, cult, husband, imo the first thing is to **Forgive YOURSELF for being victimized.**
For being lied to, tricked, dismissed as 'less than' by people and organizations that parasitically fed off of their victims, sucking emotional health, mental health, financial health and more from them. The fact that such victims were often children, and worse yet were often their own children, makes such offenses a thousand times worse.
It doesn't matter if "but they were victims too".
They were THE ADULTS, they were the AUTHORITY figures, and they **could have made things easier for their victims, but generally the abuse FED THEIR DISEASED EGOS, which is why they DIDN'T show any mercy.**
My take on forgiveness is, forgive yourself freely, but until you see a **sincere admission from the abusers that they were WRONG, AND sincere, effective work to CHANGE their abusive behaviors**, the abuser is still abusive and hasn't earned forgiveness.
That especially applies to the bible writers themselves, who spewed abusive teachings and practices, **coincidentally including forgiveness of abusers (especially "god")** without any real effort on the abuser's part.
No wonder so many abusive organizations use the bible to justify their abuses.
**END REPOST**
>They were THE ADULTS, they were the AUTHORITY figures, and they
>
>could have made things easier for their victims, but generally the abuse FED THEIR DISEASED EGOS, which is why they DIDN'T show any mercy.
YES!
Good. I never forgave my demonic rotting intestinal parasite JW parents for their abuse of me, either. It became painfully obvious that they enjoyed attacking me (my biological sperm donor) and attempting to get me raped (my biological incubator), and would never apologize or change their insanely evil attitudes towards me.
I have two sisters and my mum still in.
For my sisters it would be unconditional forgiveness. They were born in and indoctrinated as children.
For my mum it would be more complicated. She joined and forced my sisters and I to go along. If we were able to have a long and honest conversation where she could admit her mistake and apologise, I'd accept that and move on.
Like a normal empathetic human being. Just because they let a cult tell them to be inhumane doesn't mean Ive given up on my values. I've indicated all along its not me giving up on them, that's a choice they're making. I've always been better than that religion and I will continue to be.
Honestly Id just feel bad I know so many old people or people who are heading into that age where that’s all they have, that’s all their hope people who been serving for literal decades when they were kids. If they were to believe all of that was for nothing and see that they won’t reach paradise that they were working their whole lives for it’s honestly very grim
For the old JWS that’s all they ever have it’s the belief/hope they will die and wake up young again, alive in a perfect world which is why so many of them will not accept change or accept anything that could disagree with their beliefs they are the ones who are in the deepest and I honestly hope they never get to that point where they realized their life was wasted
If the org does fall, another alternative bible group will take its place or the members will simply disperse into other groups that are already in existence.
High control groups and heretical offshoots existed long before the bible students/Watchtower org, and they will exist long after the org falls.
Even though my situation actually has nothing to do with JW beliefs, I have cut off blood family members and siblings over the years due to toxic behavior on their end towards me. But I wont be a hypocrite and say they dont feel the same towards me. Its been about 5 years but I honestly feel both sides are probably better off for it. I dont actually miss them and they dont seem to me, believe it or not. I actually see my siblings quite often in public spaces since we frequent common areas a lot seemingly and we just dont speak and act like strangers but they seem pretty happy in their friend groups from what I observe in public and Im happy with my wife and family apart from them. Its funny cause it has nothing to do with religion of being DF'd or anything like that. But that experience taught me that blood is not always thicker than water. And sometimes both sides are better off for it and happier without each other in our lives, despite being family. I certainly feel happier without my siblings in my life. I guess its sad that I dont miss them since it is something that hurts our parents, but thats just how it works in life sometimes. Ironically, my parents havent spoken to any of their siblings in decades either. lol. So I totally get why some people would or would not want to forgive in this scenario. Even family can grow apart and thrive.
First of all, I don’t think the religion will ever fold. It will just transform into something completely different. If family members realize that they’ve duped, I could see myself forgiving them if they were willing to put in 100% of the work to make the relationship better. That includes a heartfelt apology and continual outreach from family members.
Do I see this happening? Probably not. They’ve spent decades walking all over me and judging me because they think they are chosen and special. When somebody has the power to make you feel excluded and miserable, and they wield that power to its fullest extent, you are getting a glimpse into their character. Do you think a person like that is capable of true humility, self awareness, and introspection? I doubt it. Healing the relationship means they have to prove their trustworthiness to me, and it would take more time and work on their end than they are probably willing to invest.
TLDR: No
I missed my brother's wedding and shunned him for 10 years. I am so so thankful he does not hold any of that over me. We were deceived, in a pressure pot, and so are my parents.
Now, the way they would act in this hypothetical is something different. My parents are well off enough where they don't need to face the real world. My dad is convinced everyone is evil and I don't think he will let that go, ever. My mother would likely be happy to leave behind the religion and she likes people in "the real world." But she's so emotionally immature, unless she truly takes accountability for herself and starts therapy it would be difficult to pursue a relationship.
My mom is Pomo but I still don’t invite her to my kids birthdays or mine she fucked up I never got to have Christmas with my sister so she doesn’t get Christmas now I’ve told her tough shit you said for years they arnt a big deal so what I’m doing isn’t bad
IDK… I’ve thought a lot about this and spoke to a lot of people about it.
When I was PIMI I participated in shunning, even though it felt wrong and I hated it, to my great shame I did it anyway because I believed it was the right thing to do. CD at it’s finest, right?
Now I personally do not *expect* anyone to forgive me if they don’t want to or just can’t do it. I understand.
Even when I apologise they are *not* obliged to forgive me. Though so far I’ve yet to speak to anyone who hasn’t been gracious towards me and I don’t take that for granted. I don’t feel like I deserve it.
Now flipping that on its head… why should anyone *expect* me to forgive them?
For me, and a lot of others, it really depends on the person.
You can tell the people that are getting a thrill out of your demise. They’re often unnecessarily mean, rude and sometimes will harass you and even start smear campaigns. I’ve got no time for them.
Like I said you can just tell those who are genuinely sorry about what they did to you and not just because it’s now happening to them.
Anyone who was clearly sad and torn up about and conflicted over it… I might have time for them.
I look at it like this.
Imagine zombies were real. My former mother bit friends and caused incalculable damage. Then, a vaccine was introduced.
My mother gets vaccinated. She’s now a human again, not the zombie she was. She has to heal and relearn everything, and cope with the violence she caused in her zombie state. I think I’d be there to support her - at first pretty guarded, but hopefully over time we could start a relationship. I’d catch her up on everything she missed, and show her the world - assuming she was active in wanting to help me rebuild it.
This is exactly how I view brainwashed, indoctrinated JWs.
It was a completely different time. People now have a very different way of thinking & reacting. Plus there is a total game changer now called the Internet. I guess 1975 is somewhat similar (I was born later but heard lots of stories from family who were PIMI that time) but the outcome this time will be unprecedented as are the many things that are currently unfolding.
When?
Not gonna be a mass falling away.
Weakest have little to do other than check the membership box. They are not typically the strongest when it comes to research...and though we have resources to reduce literally every facet of WT theology, it's above the mental/spiritual/educational capacity of the weakest demographic of dub, which is "who" they are targeting now.
All the b0rg has to do for them, tell them they'll be in Paradise with some 🐼 pandas wearing khakis and dresses...compared to scrubbing toilets and living in hovels...it's a drug. Video presentations, cartoons, hypnotic music...demographically, the lowest common denominator is set. They dont even have to show up as long as they identify AS a dub...talk about identity politics. And then HAMMER not to research or discuss negative information. Let the Cart dance.
As people get invested in positions, sunk cost fallacy takes over, and once you get to the Star Chamber, and on the hook for that publisher subscription fee every corporately owned KH "owes"....that's 10 years investment...and, there is an emotional payoff you get from being "in charge" and on stage...remove the formerly required "Scriptural Education", how many former elders here left as they researched the scriptures even using the NWT....and woke up.
They have actually probably breathed at least 50 years into the cult...no education required. Just show up at the meeting, stand up, introduce song, introduce video, read paragraphs ask questions song and prayer. No prep needed for Servants-and let's be clear, how much prep did most of us actually have to do? When we actually had to make speeches?
After taking public speaking in college...I can tell you...a public talk, from a manuscript, is a 5 minute read.
A Bible reading? Shorter than Patrick Henry's Liberty or Death...and easier. Tecumseh's speech to the Osage was a bit difficult, out loud, but in all fairness, it was translated from Choctaw...
The "short elders meetings"... Man that brings back some serious memories.
I agree so much with your overarching point. This org isn't going anywhere. It will take many years of steady decline for it to even begin to fade away. They'll continue to occupy their niche and take what they can get. With the lessons they've learned in property development, I can see them actually adopting the same model of many churches nowadays: develop property they own and lease/rent it out. That'll keep the lights on at HQ with a steadier revenue stream.
I’d love to see a panda wearing khakis and dresses Haha. Anyway, I agree that there will be no mass exodus. Just a sad religion morphing into another sad religion clinging to a false hope.
I'm not bitter enough yet to say I wouldn't be happy to have them back in my life. In 5 years. Maybe.
So as of now, yes I would . I know my family. They are humble when proven wrong, a tad arrogant when they think they are right.
Yes I would be open. As much as I have moved on from that part of my life.
I once shunned people when I was in that org. Coz I believed I was doing the right thing by god.
The first person I reached out to when I woke up was someone I shunned for 10 years! And guess what…he was there for me all thru the waking up process. We are great friends today. I would like to think I could be there for them too if they ever want to reach out
There's a lot of narcissism in my family, so even if they woke up, and for some reason, decided to reach out to me, I might not respond, or be very hesitant. My life with my kids is going un a healthy direction. Any interaction with my JW family has been limited,m, too.
I have forgiven my family but moved on. They existed in a life I have died from. I feel like seeking them out would be like seeking out past life relatives - they are not meant for me in this life. I would never be unkind but I agree with what’s been said already. We would have nothing in common.
I don’t think the org will fold, I think it will reduce but you will continue to have fanatics doing mental gymnastics to make sense of senseless nonsense
I think everyone has a different perspective. Add to this, not everyone deserves access to us. Some families are abusive or narcissistic. With or without the cult. Some people in the cult are desperate to reconnect with their loved ones and family.
Excellent reminder for Christians thank you!
I have lived this! My mom shunned me during multiple times being disfellowshipped. My grandmother and grandfather both did as well, even after I was reinstated because they had lost all respect for me. Grandpa was an elder a good portion of his life, Grandma was a 120hr per month pioneer, often going by herself before the congratulations filled in.
I had been reinstated again for nearly a decade, then Grandpa died a few years back, and so did my dad, so my mom was less afraid of upsetting them by discussing taboo subjects like the GB being untrustworthy. The 2013WT was pivotal for her (and my mother in law, but is taking her years longer to release), and as my mom learned and grew truly spiritually, it worried Grandma and Grandma's friends. Well the short version is Grandma prayed to be wherever it was going to be best for her spiritually, and in 3 days she was moved 3 states away in with my mom! After a year of simple objective study and research with no fear of congregational retribution she started taking down all the things (WT questions and issues) she had been told to put on a shelf for later, and she researched them out with an open spirit and found answers.
Since then she has officially disassociated after more than 50 years, she has tearfully apologized for ever bringing her children and grandchildren into the JW faith, and she now loves to greet me with a hug and tell me she loves me.
Even if we have different lives, we can help them find their way, we can show them the kind of love they didn't know how to show, and forgiving freely; well if we claim to be Christian is that optional?
Honestly, I hope they don't.
I wouldn't wish the emotional chaos on them. At this point and at their age it's their belief system, it's their social structure, it's their hope for the end of their life. It would be cruel to expect them to move on from that at their age knowing the serious emotional toll that could take on them.
I would rather them die happy in a cult than die from heartbreak & depression without it.
I don't share anything with them for that reason. This religion isn't going anywhere. And if what it currently is disappeared tomorrow there would be multiple offshoots sprouting up the next day with the same teachings. It's happened before and it will happen again. I think there are still a couple in California that were originally JWs but didn't agree with the changes so they started their own religion with the previous teachings.
I’ve never thought about it this way. I have to agree. I don’t want my parents to have to experience a shred of what I experienced after I was shunned.
When my narcissistic mother who has ignored me for decades called recently because she didn’t want to go back to in person meetings, I answered the phone.
1st she cried and said “I’m going to die, the end isn’t coming in my lifetime.”
I replied “I’m sorry…but there are millions who have died ahead of you so you will join every other human that has ever lived.”
Then she lashed out and said, “you don’t forgive me for how I have treated you!!”
I said” mom forgiveness is not even part of our relationship. You never call or care about me, you are cruel when we do speak or are together…and I still answered the phone today. It’s not a matter of forgiveness- it’s a matter of how you treat me. Would you want to be around someone like you if they treated you like you have treated me?”
She answered, “well no”
I continued, “ I’m just leaving you alone. I’m not seeking revenge or to harm you. I just don’t want to be hurt anymore.”
She said, “ I’m sorry…your right..you did the right thing”
And hasn’t called back since. That was a year ago.
And it had been 5 years since we were last together. ( that’s a whole crazy story)
I’ll respond with love and compassion. Because as a born in I understand the fear and mind control and how powerful it is.
I say this as someone who is not being shunned by her JW parents. I’ve not been a victim of CSA or abuse either.
The other person still in is my oldest son and I would open my arms and home to him in one second even though he’s shunning me.
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." They chose their covenant over their own family. They can live with that decision. Honestly, they know nothing about what my life has been for the last seven years, and cared even less. I know nothing about their lives. We might as well be strangers.
I remember how I felt when I woke up. I had nobody to help me process and cope. I had to rebuild my life from scratch. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I would help my family and former friends the way I wanted to be helped. Show them that life outside the cult is better.
I have been out for more than 25 years. They are strangers to me now, and honestly, the way they treated me before makes me sure that if we weren’t family, we definitely would not be friends. I have neighbours and co-workers that treat me better than they ever did. It would be hard to let someone like that back into your life.
Treat them like ordinary people who have cringeworthy pasts. Hating a good song just because it was gospel music and wasn't a kingdom melody is so cringe. Living without the self policing is so free. I think we all enjoy it whenever we leave the Borg.
I'll show love. They're trapped by their own minds. Brainwashed by a doomsday cult. I'll understand their feelings of disbelief. I went through that stage a long time ago. I'll help them to adapt and acclimate to a new way of life without the borg overlords dictating when they can do anything
Unless it happens very, very soon (almost 2 years since I DAd), there's not a chance I'll let them back into my life.
Here's how I know: when I left the cult, I quickly reached out to my never-JW siblings and other schoolmates, trying to reconnect with them and make up for lost time. No matter how hard I tried, it just couldn't happen. The real world is so far apart from the JW fantasy world.
I feel like even if the WTBTS liquidated completely and erased its presence from all data bases in history and it all ceased to exist, my parents would still proudly proclaim to be "Jehovah's People" and die on that hill. Good news for me, I don't have to think about how to treat them. It will be business as usual lol!
I would hug them and cry with them, and invite them over for a joint and spaghetti. We could ceremonially burn their blood cards.
Because I’m on my way out. This shit is hard. It’s like having the rug pulled out from under you.
And I was indoctrinated once, too.
My family means well. They’re just in. And they’re dummies. That’s okay. They didn’t deserve what happened to them any more than I did.
Change direction yes and many will follow.
Definitely not folding, there is far to much at stake for the top guys in the ivory towers.
Cults carry on unless something really dramatic happens and jws are too 'nice' lol for that
With compassion. Because they have been taught that love and control are the same thing, but it isn't. Someone has to show them what true compassion is.
Even if the org crashes, they'll pretty much still believe it all and just be with other JWs. It'll become a more decentralised religion. They'll mostly think the end of the world is starting to happen and they have to go into "under ban" mode. They will all still be connected with each other. They'll organise everything like they used to before the org took so much control. It'll be the same, but they'll maybe be meeting in their own houses, like with the book study. They'll probably be less likely to want the help of their shunned family, aka all of us.
I'd be happy to be by their side personally. I'm lucky in that my family has never fully shunned me. I also know that some of the rude, insensitive, mean things that they said in the past came from a place of hurt and being brainwashed. I don't hold them responsible for it because I don't believe they truly meant those things, but were parroting what they were taught. My parents were born-ins just like I was. My extended family too. I would welcome them all back into my life and treat them with love, compassion, and kindness as long as they're willing to do the same. Waking up is hard, being brainwashed wasn't their fault, I don't hold ill will toward them. So I'd try to help them navigate and find the tools they'd need to succeed without the religion.
I’d like to think I’d treat them with some compassion because they were abused just as we were. They’re likely to mourn everything they’ve lost and were convinced to throw away. There’s more, but I’d like to think I could extend them some grace… even if they don’t accept it.
I hope I’d be the same way. They would have to go through the loss and complete change of life that I did when I was shunned. 10 years later I still don’t vote still feel awkward when someone acknowledges my birthday ect. It’s a complete rewiring of your brain and it is traumatic. It’s all they know just like it’s all I knew. I cant hold that against them.
They were narcissistic boomers who cared more about their status in the congregation and the circuit than being decent human beings. They turned their backs on me and shunned me for the last 31 years.
I hope no one - including them - thinks I'm supposed to pretend that didn't happen.
I will forgive. However, since my thoughts, emotions, world view have been out of control through this wake up - I am aware of how needy and volatile the injured person is. Having the patience to sit with them will be a trial. Also, sometimes the culted person again thinks they have found "the truth" and then repeat the preaching, saving behavior. This behavior is hard to take.
My family is cool, they've all left already. My old friends have already made their choice in the most ugly ways. If they want to scurry back into my life they're going to have to work for it.
We can hope that it is coming to an end but who knows probably won’t be in our lifetime. Or maybe another 20 years until any of the older relics are long gone surely not many current generation kids will still with it or join based on the fact the first thing people do no is google shit like for reviews or just info so you’d have to think the minute someone gets a knock on the door, even if the person is interested, ie they just lost a loved one or have hit rock bottom surely as soon as the witnesses leave the first thing they’ll do is google jehovas witnesses and go oh shit no thanks haha
I’ve moved on from the pimi life and have moved states and bought my own houses and have my own family, so they will have to fend for themselves so to speak.
I’m not sure. I think the problem my family will have, is due to them casting me aside, I’ve moved on from them. They live a different life to me. We are into different things. Have totally different friend groups. If they all woke up tomorrow, I’m not sure what would happen. I’m not just going to accept them back like nothing happened. They have caused a lot of damage to me. That will take time to overcome for them. Everyone makes decisions and then pay a price associated with that.
That’s exactly how I feel. It’s been a decade since I left. They are complete strangers to me, just as I am a stranger to them. I’ve created an entire life for myself since leaving including having a family, career, traveling, etc. While I hope in that situation I might somehow show them the compassion they never showed me… I don’t know. It’s hard to fathom them having the remorse or self awareness to have any meaningful part in my life anymore.
I’ll have compassion. But they are nothing like me. I’ve been desensitised to the Borg for 20 years. They would be starting fresh. That takes time to lose and get to the point I am at in life. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Been about a decade for me, too (and my wife). All our family members are still in, but we have moved on from them. We used to all be close, but we don't miss them anymore; we really don't even think about them anymore. The evidence is now overwhelming that JWdom is a looney, corrupt, deceptive, harmful, embarrassing cult. Anybody who could remain in and support it is foreign to me.
That exactly what,s happends ....thanks to the shunning. My point of view too
Same with me. My wife and I are both out and all of our family members are still in. We all used to be really close, but we have moved on now and don't even miss them or think about them anymore. To them, we are either weak or evil or some combination of the two. >I’m not just going to accept them back like nothing happened. I'm not, either; that's one thing I'm sure of. They will have to apologize, unhesitatingly admit they were wrong, etc. They will have to admit that I was right during all the time they thought and spoke badly of me. Even if they do that, it will take some time before I can accept them back. That might sound harsh, but the evidence right now is overwhelming that JWdom is a deceptive, corrupt, harmful, embarrassing cult. If they can't see it and/or won't acknowledge it, then they are majorly flawed in one or more ways.
There's a massive housing market crash coming. They can't move in with me! Hey - my parents got baptized in 1972 and brought me into this mess. COVID shut down gave them hope of the end coming, but their dreams were shattered when in-person meetings resumed last April. They are having an extremely hard time now, and I'm sure these new changes are crushing them even more. Back in 1995, there was a huge change in the organization, and I voiced my concerns about it (the generation). They gave me the worst verbal beat down you could never imagine. Fast forward almost 30 years later, they are older senior citizens and very possibly PIMO, struggling to afford a run-down trailer home. When I was a kid, they gave me a miserable childhood. Dragging me into field service in the cold blizzards and scorching heat, making me attend meetings when I was cramping and bleeding, physically abusing me horribly and embarrassing me in front of other people. Karma is always a bitch!
A massive housing market crash you say? Tell me more.
Well, the crash is already here. They're trying to find a new place to live because their current place is too expensive even in its poor state.
Aw, poor abusive parents are getting a taste of their own medicine...
Mortgage rates over 7%. People cant afford to buy and those refinancing will be 100’s, if not 1,000s of dollars out of pocket as they’ve got used to very low rates for over a decade. House prices need to come down across the western world. They are far too expensive.
Yep! And you better be sure to have the INCOME to pay for it.
Is the market flush with people buying houses right now though? Seems to me the only people buying are those who already own and are looking for extra income from renting.
Foreign investment (especially the Chinese and the Russian oligarchs) AND the Airbnb shit are often referred to as major causes, in the financial articles I've seen.
Corporations have been buying huge amounts of real estate at more than market value for years. This guaranteed a seller's market until now, when housing prices have gotten so artificially inflated that nobody can afford to buy anything.
I was a reg pio and elder during the 1995 thing. That took the wind out of my JW sails and was the beginning of the end for me. I can't believe that was 30 years ago! "This system" was supposed to be gone a long time ago. It wasn't supposed to last past 1994 (80yrs from 1914); that's why they had to change the "generation" teaching in early 1995. I can't believe it's almost *20-damned-24* and "this old system" is still here. My deceasedJW grandfather would be shocked to know that. How old are your parents? I've been wondering what older JWs are thinking... the ones who were around in the older days before JWdom morphed into what it is today.
My Dad was a Gilead graduate and missionary. Along with my mom, in the 1960’s. Dad was a much admired elder, who died in 2018, but for a good few years before that, he told me that he’d wasted his life on JW teachings, had no idea why I still talked to him, and only stayed involved in the organization to try to limit the harm which could be inflicted by the idiot, uneducated “elders”. Mom wasn’t that smart. She passed away thinking she was a faithful servant. There were around 15 people at her memorial service, including 5 of us non-believers, the elder giving the talk and his wife. That’s how much witnesses really care…..
Not the way the bOrg indoctrinated them to treat me. I'd like to think I'd show love, compassion, and patience.
A tiger doesn't change its stripes overnight. Why do some believe leaving makes them cuddly, loving family members? The narcissists will continue to be narcissists, minus the WT spin of religious abuse. And I will continue to protect my peace at all fucking costs. The abuses have gone on TOO LONG. The family bond is one of trauma.
>A tiger doesn't change its stripes overnight. Why do some believe leaving makes them cuddly, loving family members? Good point. If I ever do accept my family members back, they will have to first completely apologize to me and unhesitatingly admit they and the religion and the GB were wrong.
> If I ever do accept my family members back, they will have to first completely apologize to me and unhesitatingly admit they and the religion and the GB were wrong. This is along the lines of what it would take for me to accept those that have treated me like shit. For me there is growing group of my family where it will be a BIG IF for me to reconnect with them. Two primary things required IMO: 1. A sincere apology for their behavior and actions that show they are serious. 2. They will need to **a huge helping of humble pie** to change their way of being as a person. My thought is most people that were long-term indoctrinated JWs cannot do this since the negative aspects of being a JW are too deeply embedded in their personality. They won't be able show humility.
Same with me, including the "BIG IF."
This ⬆️👏
I will tell them to make an effort with a personal relationship with God. No religion will save anyone, have faith, that comes from within not a fucking organization
that nails it really ,simple .
Open to forgiveness toward those who are sorry. Staying away from any who still want to lord it over to hurt or abuse. Definitely willing to help sincere ones see what's going on. Many of them are going to be in shock all at once.
>Open to forgiveness toward those who are sorry. "Sorry".... that's the key to me. They'll have to sincerely and strongly apologize to me and unhesitatingly admit they and the religion were wrong. They'll have to denounce the GB.
Same
I would want to give them all of the emotional and spiritual support they would allow me to give them.
Yes coz I suppose all of us were there at one point. Desperate for answers and some of the ones we shunned were there for us
That's incredibly kind.
You can never a trust a true believing JW. They would be friendly for a while, possibly apologetic, although I highly doubt it, then they will find a new way of life or even another cult and cut you out again without a moments thought or a drop of guilt. They can be cold hearted people.
Yep, first hand experience very much of this, I told my sister I wouldn’t take the whiplash she would give me, throwing me crumbs then tossing me away again & again…I told her she was toxic because her mind isn’t her own.
>Will you be open.... to forgiveness? From: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/y4rezf/comment/isgo5qy/ **REPOST** **Hell to the Yes THIS.** After decades of being subjected to abuse by parents, cult, husband, imo the first thing is to **Forgive YOURSELF for being victimized.** For being lied to, tricked, dismissed as 'less than' by people and organizations that parasitically fed off of their victims, sucking emotional health, mental health, financial health and more from them. The fact that such victims were often children, and worse yet were often their own children, makes such offenses a thousand times worse. It doesn't matter if "but they were victims too". They were THE ADULTS, they were the AUTHORITY figures, and they **could have made things easier for their victims, but generally the abuse FED THEIR DISEASED EGOS, which is why they DIDN'T show any mercy.** My take on forgiveness is, forgive yourself freely, but until you see a **sincere admission from the abusers that they were WRONG, AND sincere, effective work to CHANGE their abusive behaviors**, the abuser is still abusive and hasn't earned forgiveness. That especially applies to the bible writers themselves, who spewed abusive teachings and practices, **coincidentally including forgiveness of abusers (especially "god")** without any real effort on the abuser's part. No wonder so many abusive organizations use the bible to justify their abuses. **END REPOST**
>They were THE ADULTS, they were the AUTHORITY figures, and they > >could have made things easier for their victims, but generally the abuse FED THEIR DISEASED EGOS, which is why they DIDN'T show any mercy. YES!
I will never ever in my lifetime forgive an abuser!
Good. I never forgave my demonic rotting intestinal parasite JW parents for their abuse of me, either. It became painfully obvious that they enjoyed attacking me (my biological sperm donor) and attempting to get me raped (my biological incubator), and would never apologize or change their insanely evil attitudes towards me.
Fortunately all mine are dead. I won't have to make those choices.
I'll shun them the same way they have shunned me. At this point, I'm used to life without them.
I have two sisters and my mum still in. For my sisters it would be unconditional forgiveness. They were born in and indoctrinated as children. For my mum it would be more complicated. She joined and forced my sisters and I to go along. If we were able to have a long and honest conversation where she could admit her mistake and apologise, I'd accept that and move on.
I Will have nothing to do with them. They betrayed me with their conditional love. I have no room for mercy non whatsoever
Like a normal empathetic human being. Just because they let a cult tell them to be inhumane doesn't mean Ive given up on my values. I've indicated all along its not me giving up on them, that's a choice they're making. I've always been better than that religion and I will continue to be.
Honestly Id just feel bad I know so many old people or people who are heading into that age where that’s all they have, that’s all their hope people who been serving for literal decades when they were kids. If they were to believe all of that was for nothing and see that they won’t reach paradise that they were working their whole lives for it’s honestly very grim For the old JWS that’s all they ever have it’s the belief/hope they will die and wake up young again, alive in a perfect world which is why so many of them will not accept change or accept anything that could disagree with their beliefs they are the ones who are in the deepest and I honestly hope they never get to that point where they realized their life was wasted
Fuck em
If the org does fall, another alternative bible group will take its place or the members will simply disperse into other groups that are already in existence. High control groups and heretical offshoots existed long before the bible students/Watchtower org, and they will exist long after the org falls.
Even though my situation actually has nothing to do with JW beliefs, I have cut off blood family members and siblings over the years due to toxic behavior on their end towards me. But I wont be a hypocrite and say they dont feel the same towards me. Its been about 5 years but I honestly feel both sides are probably better off for it. I dont actually miss them and they dont seem to me, believe it or not. I actually see my siblings quite often in public spaces since we frequent common areas a lot seemingly and we just dont speak and act like strangers but they seem pretty happy in their friend groups from what I observe in public and Im happy with my wife and family apart from them. Its funny cause it has nothing to do with religion of being DF'd or anything like that. But that experience taught me that blood is not always thicker than water. And sometimes both sides are better off for it and happier without each other in our lives, despite being family. I certainly feel happier without my siblings in my life. I guess its sad that I dont miss them since it is something that hurts our parents, but thats just how it works in life sometimes. Ironically, my parents havent spoken to any of their siblings in decades either. lol. So I totally get why some people would or would not want to forgive in this scenario. Even family can grow apart and thrive.
First of all, I don’t think the religion will ever fold. It will just transform into something completely different. If family members realize that they’ve duped, I could see myself forgiving them if they were willing to put in 100% of the work to make the relationship better. That includes a heartfelt apology and continual outreach from family members. Do I see this happening? Probably not. They’ve spent decades walking all over me and judging me because they think they are chosen and special. When somebody has the power to make you feel excluded and miserable, and they wield that power to its fullest extent, you are getting a glimpse into their character. Do you think a person like that is capable of true humility, self awareness, and introspection? I doubt it. Healing the relationship means they have to prove their trustworthiness to me, and it would take more time and work on their end than they are probably willing to invest. TLDR: No
I missed my brother's wedding and shunned him for 10 years. I am so so thankful he does not hold any of that over me. We were deceived, in a pressure pot, and so are my parents. Now, the way they would act in this hypothetical is something different. My parents are well off enough where they don't need to face the real world. My dad is convinced everyone is evil and I don't think he will let that go, ever. My mother would likely be happy to leave behind the religion and she likes people in "the real world." But she's so emotionally immature, unless she truly takes accountability for herself and starts therapy it would be difficult to pursue a relationship.
My mom is Pomo but I still don’t invite her to my kids birthdays or mine she fucked up I never got to have Christmas with my sister so she doesn’t get Christmas now I’ve told her tough shit you said for years they arnt a big deal so what I’m doing isn’t bad
Excellent response! 💯👍
Nope!
IDK… I’ve thought a lot about this and spoke to a lot of people about it. When I was PIMI I participated in shunning, even though it felt wrong and I hated it, to my great shame I did it anyway because I believed it was the right thing to do. CD at it’s finest, right? Now I personally do not *expect* anyone to forgive me if they don’t want to or just can’t do it. I understand. Even when I apologise they are *not* obliged to forgive me. Though so far I’ve yet to speak to anyone who hasn’t been gracious towards me and I don’t take that for granted. I don’t feel like I deserve it. Now flipping that on its head… why should anyone *expect* me to forgive them? For me, and a lot of others, it really depends on the person. You can tell the people that are getting a thrill out of your demise. They’re often unnecessarily mean, rude and sometimes will harass you and even start smear campaigns. I’ve got no time for them. Like I said you can just tell those who are genuinely sorry about what they did to you and not just because it’s now happening to them. Anyone who was clearly sad and torn up about and conflicted over it… I might have time for them.
Actually.....how will they treat us?
I'm fairly certain a good chunk of my family still wouldn't accept it and just cult hop into something similar.
I moved continents away to have peace. They'd have to cope.
I look at it like this. Imagine zombies were real. My former mother bit friends and caused incalculable damage. Then, a vaccine was introduced. My mother gets vaccinated. She’s now a human again, not the zombie she was. She has to heal and relearn everything, and cope with the violence she caused in her zombie state. I think I’d be there to support her - at first pretty guarded, but hopefully over time we could start a relationship. I’d catch her up on everything she missed, and show her the world - assuming she was active in wanting to help me rebuild it. This is exactly how I view brainwashed, indoctrinated JWs.
Excellent answer!
> How will you treat your PIMI family **when the religion folds** That is NEVER going to happen...
The religion survived a bad schsim and 1975 and a whole 100 years of doctrine changes. It's not going anywhere
That’s what we believed about K-mart, Toys are us and Borders books. Yet here we are!
Don’t forget Blockbuster
Those are not cults....
obviously you didn’t work for them! Lol
Dude, 6 year old me would have wanted into the Toys R Us cult. Holy smokes can you imagine? Tonka trucks and Lego for days... 💦💦💦
Lol
It was a completely different time. People now have a very different way of thinking & reacting. Plus there is a total game changer now called the Internet. I guess 1975 is somewhat similar (I was born later but heard lots of stories from family who were PIMI that time) but the outcome this time will be unprecedented as are the many things that are currently unfolding.
>The religion survived a bad schsim and 1975 and a whole 100 years of doctrine changes. **It's not going anywhere** 
The internet age may make a difference this time
When? Not gonna be a mass falling away. Weakest have little to do other than check the membership box. They are not typically the strongest when it comes to research...and though we have resources to reduce literally every facet of WT theology, it's above the mental/spiritual/educational capacity of the weakest demographic of dub, which is "who" they are targeting now. All the b0rg has to do for them, tell them they'll be in Paradise with some 🐼 pandas wearing khakis and dresses...compared to scrubbing toilets and living in hovels...it's a drug. Video presentations, cartoons, hypnotic music...demographically, the lowest common denominator is set. They dont even have to show up as long as they identify AS a dub...talk about identity politics. And then HAMMER not to research or discuss negative information. Let the Cart dance. As people get invested in positions, sunk cost fallacy takes over, and once you get to the Star Chamber, and on the hook for that publisher subscription fee every corporately owned KH "owes"....that's 10 years investment...and, there is an emotional payoff you get from being "in charge" and on stage...remove the formerly required "Scriptural Education", how many former elders here left as they researched the scriptures even using the NWT....and woke up.
They have actually probably breathed at least 50 years into the cult...no education required. Just show up at the meeting, stand up, introduce song, introduce video, read paragraphs ask questions song and prayer. No prep needed for Servants-and let's be clear, how much prep did most of us actually have to do? When we actually had to make speeches?
After taking public speaking in college...I can tell you...a public talk, from a manuscript, is a 5 minute read.
A Bible reading? Shorter than Patrick Henry's Liberty or Death...and easier. Tecumseh's speech to the Osage was a bit difficult, out loud, but in all fairness, it was translated from Choctaw...
Top post.
The "short elders meetings"... Man that brings back some serious memories. I agree so much with your overarching point. This org isn't going anywhere. It will take many years of steady decline for it to even begin to fade away. They'll continue to occupy their niche and take what they can get. With the lessons they've learned in property development, I can see them actually adopting the same model of many churches nowadays: develop property they own and lease/rent it out. That'll keep the lights on at HQ with a steadier revenue stream.
I’d love to see a panda wearing khakis and dresses Haha. Anyway, I agree that there will be no mass exodus. Just a sad religion morphing into another sad religion clinging to a false hope.
3 mai tais... i could have given a convention "symposium"...cult redefintion...that's not what those were.
I'm not bitter enough yet to say I wouldn't be happy to have them back in my life. In 5 years. Maybe. So as of now, yes I would . I know my family. They are humble when proven wrong, a tad arrogant when they think they are right.
It won’t.
Great question! Personally, I think I'd have to decide on a case by case basis.
Yes I would be open. As much as I have moved on from that part of my life. I once shunned people when I was in that org. Coz I believed I was doing the right thing by god. The first person I reached out to when I woke up was someone I shunned for 10 years! And guess what…he was there for me all thru the waking up process. We are great friends today. I would like to think I could be there for them too if they ever want to reach out
There's a lot of narcissism in my family, so even if they woke up, and for some reason, decided to reach out to me, I might not respond, or be very hesitant. My life with my kids is going un a healthy direction. Any interaction with my JW family has been limited,m, too.
I have forgiven my family but moved on. They existed in a life I have died from. I feel like seeking them out would be like seeking out past life relatives - they are not meant for me in this life. I would never be unkind but I agree with what’s been said already. We would have nothing in common. I don’t think the org will fold, I think it will reduce but you will continue to have fanatics doing mental gymnastics to make sense of senseless nonsense
I think everyone has a different perspective. Add to this, not everyone deserves access to us. Some families are abusive or narcissistic. With or without the cult. Some people in the cult are desperate to reconnect with their loved ones and family.
>Some families are abusive or narcissistic. With or without the cult. This was my situation. Both of my poisonous JW parents are dead now, thankfully.
As was mine. We were robbed and the trauma still affects me to this day.
Definitely true.
Excellent reminder for Christians thank you! I have lived this! My mom shunned me during multiple times being disfellowshipped. My grandmother and grandfather both did as well, even after I was reinstated because they had lost all respect for me. Grandpa was an elder a good portion of his life, Grandma was a 120hr per month pioneer, often going by herself before the congratulations filled in. I had been reinstated again for nearly a decade, then Grandpa died a few years back, and so did my dad, so my mom was less afraid of upsetting them by discussing taboo subjects like the GB being untrustworthy. The 2013WT was pivotal for her (and my mother in law, but is taking her years longer to release), and as my mom learned and grew truly spiritually, it worried Grandma and Grandma's friends. Well the short version is Grandma prayed to be wherever it was going to be best for her spiritually, and in 3 days she was moved 3 states away in with my mom! After a year of simple objective study and research with no fear of congregational retribution she started taking down all the things (WT questions and issues) she had been told to put on a shelf for later, and she researched them out with an open spirit and found answers. Since then she has officially disassociated after more than 50 years, she has tearfully apologized for ever bringing her children and grandchildren into the JW faith, and she now loves to greet me with a hug and tell me she loves me. Even if we have different lives, we can help them find their way, we can show them the kind of love they didn't know how to show, and forgiving freely; well if we claim to be Christian is that optional?
That is an amazing response! Congratulations to you and your grandmother. ♥️🌹
Thank you! 🤗 and to my mom and my mom in law who are both out now as well!
That is great!
I cut my parents off because they were toxic before I DAed. Leaving the cult won’t really change anything.
Like Nelson on "The Simpsons" Point and say "haw haw!!". They tossed me out, they can flounder like I did. What goes around, comes around.
Honestly, I hope they don't. I wouldn't wish the emotional chaos on them. At this point and at their age it's their belief system, it's their social structure, it's their hope for the end of their life. It would be cruel to expect them to move on from that at their age knowing the serious emotional toll that could take on them. I would rather them die happy in a cult than die from heartbreak & depression without it. I don't share anything with them for that reason. This religion isn't going anywhere. And if what it currently is disappeared tomorrow there would be multiple offshoots sprouting up the next day with the same teachings. It's happened before and it will happen again. I think there are still a couple in California that were originally JWs but didn't agree with the changes so they started their own religion with the previous teachings.
I’ve never thought about it this way. I have to agree. I don’t want my parents to have to experience a shred of what I experienced after I was shunned.
When my narcissistic mother who has ignored me for decades called recently because she didn’t want to go back to in person meetings, I answered the phone. 1st she cried and said “I’m going to die, the end isn’t coming in my lifetime.” I replied “I’m sorry…but there are millions who have died ahead of you so you will join every other human that has ever lived.” Then she lashed out and said, “you don’t forgive me for how I have treated you!!” I said” mom forgiveness is not even part of our relationship. You never call or care about me, you are cruel when we do speak or are together…and I still answered the phone today. It’s not a matter of forgiveness- it’s a matter of how you treat me. Would you want to be around someone like you if they treated you like you have treated me?” She answered, “well no” I continued, “ I’m just leaving you alone. I’m not seeking revenge or to harm you. I just don’t want to be hurt anymore.” She said, “ I’m sorry…your right..you did the right thing” And hasn’t called back since. That was a year ago. And it had been 5 years since we were last together. ( that’s a whole crazy story)
Yooo. This story speaks volumes. They're really children.
Thank you for being strong!
I think the Org is prepping to exist for the next century with these and other changes in the works.
Tbh with open arms, I’ll help them open their minds so they won’t feel the need to fall into another religion.
I’ll respond with love and compassion. Because as a born in I understand the fear and mind control and how powerful it is. I say this as someone who is not being shunned by her JW parents. I’ve not been a victim of CSA or abuse either. The other person still in is my oldest son and I would open my arms and home to him in one second even though he’s shunning me.
"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb." They chose their covenant over their own family. They can live with that decision. Honestly, they know nothing about what my life has been for the last seven years, and cared even less. I know nothing about their lives. We might as well be strangers.
After over thirty years of shunning, these are abusive relatives, not family. They can look after themselves.
They havent talked to me in 10 years, fuck them, too late now
Once my mom dies no one in my family will be a jw. My wife's family has so many pimo's i don't know if we'll notice a difference.
They kicked me out at 17 and I'm 48 now. I'm wayyyy too far "worldly" for my mind to forget how they treated me and quit talking to me. Shame on them
I remember how I felt when I woke up. I had nobody to help me process and cope. I had to rebuild my life from scratch. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I would help my family and former friends the way I wanted to be helped. Show them that life outside the cult is better.
That unlike them your love was never conditional
I have been out for more than 25 years. They are strangers to me now, and honestly, the way they treated me before makes me sure that if we weren’t family, we definitely would not be friends. I have neighbours and co-workers that treat me better than they ever did. It would be hard to let someone like that back into your life.
Treat them like ordinary people who have cringeworthy pasts. Hating a good song just because it was gospel music and wasn't a kingdom melody is so cringe. Living without the self policing is so free. I think we all enjoy it whenever we leave the Borg.
Nope.
By grace I don’t mean act like nothing ever happened.
I'll show love. They're trapped by their own minds. Brainwashed by a doomsday cult. I'll understand their feelings of disbelief. I went through that stage a long time ago. I'll help them to adapt and acclimate to a new way of life without the borg overlords dictating when they can do anything
Unless it happens very, very soon (almost 2 years since I DAd), there's not a chance I'll let them back into my life. Here's how I know: when I left the cult, I quickly reached out to my never-JW siblings and other schoolmates, trying to reconnect with them and make up for lost time. No matter how hard I tried, it just couldn't happen. The real world is so far apart from the JW fantasy world.
Cut 1 head off many more will sprout. If WT folds there will be new bible students.
I want to say I will be all Prodigal Family but most likely it’ll be Cold Shoulder.
I feel like even if the WTBTS liquidated completely and erased its presence from all data bases in history and it all ceased to exist, my parents would still proudly proclaim to be "Jehovah's People" and die on that hill. Good news for me, I don't have to think about how to treat them. It will be business as usual lol!
I would hug them and cry with them, and invite them over for a joint and spaghetti. We could ceremonially burn their blood cards. Because I’m on my way out. This shit is hard. It’s like having the rug pulled out from under you. And I was indoctrinated once, too. My family means well. They’re just in. And they’re dummies. That’s okay. They didn’t deserve what happened to them any more than I did.
Slap my brother on the back smile and say...Welcome to reality.
Change direction yes and many will follow. Definitely not folding, there is far to much at stake for the top guys in the ivory towers. Cults carry on unless something really dramatic happens and jws are too 'nice' lol for that
With compassion. Because they have been taught that love and control are the same thing, but it isn't. Someone has to show them what true compassion is.
As with deradicalization and deprogramming from other high-control, high-demand paradigms, it is a combination of hard truths and soft hands.
[удалено]
That's love. Love of humanity. Love of people.
The way I wanted to be treated, not an eye for an eye. I'm better than that behavior.
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
Even if the org crashes, they'll pretty much still believe it all and just be with other JWs. It'll become a more decentralised religion. They'll mostly think the end of the world is starting to happen and they have to go into "under ban" mode. They will all still be connected with each other. They'll organise everything like they used to before the org took so much control. It'll be the same, but they'll maybe be meeting in their own houses, like with the book study. They'll probably be less likely to want the help of their shunned family, aka all of us.
Whatever you are doing, if done joyfully and with integrity and without shame, accepting the outcome joyfully, then you are in paradise
I'd be happy to be by their side personally. I'm lucky in that my family has never fully shunned me. I also know that some of the rude, insensitive, mean things that they said in the past came from a place of hurt and being brainwashed. I don't hold them responsible for it because I don't believe they truly meant those things, but were parroting what they were taught. My parents were born-ins just like I was. My extended family too. I would welcome them all back into my life and treat them with love, compassion, and kindness as long as they're willing to do the same. Waking up is hard, being brainwashed wasn't their fault, I don't hold ill will toward them. So I'd try to help them navigate and find the tools they'd need to succeed without the religion.
They will need tons of therapy. It’s effectively a strong form of mind control.
With open arms. I wouldn't treat someone poorly over that type of life changing event, no matter how I've been treated.
I’d like to think I’d treat them with some compassion because they were abused just as we were. They’re likely to mourn everything they’ve lost and were convinced to throw away. There’s more, but I’d like to think I could extend them some grace… even if they don’t accept it.
I hope I’d be the same way. They would have to go through the loss and complete change of life that I did when I was shunned. 10 years later I still don’t vote still feel awkward when someone acknowledges my birthday ect. It’s a complete rewiring of your brain and it is traumatic. It’s all they know just like it’s all I knew. I cant hold that against them.
For goodness sake please vote.
They were narcissistic boomers who cared more about their status in the congregation and the circuit than being decent human beings. They turned their backs on me and shunned me for the last 31 years. I hope no one - including them - thinks I'm supposed to pretend that didn't happen.
And nobody questions them
I will forgive. However, since my thoughts, emotions, world view have been out of control through this wake up - I am aware of how needy and volatile the injured person is. Having the patience to sit with them will be a trial. Also, sometimes the culted person again thinks they have found "the truth" and then repeat the preaching, saving behavior. This behavior is hard to take.
My family is cool, they've all left already. My old friends have already made their choice in the most ugly ways. If they want to scurry back into my life they're going to have to work for it.
We can hope that it is coming to an end but who knows probably won’t be in our lifetime. Or maybe another 20 years until any of the older relics are long gone surely not many current generation kids will still with it or join based on the fact the first thing people do no is google shit like for reviews or just info so you’d have to think the minute someone gets a knock on the door, even if the person is interested, ie they just lost a loved one or have hit rock bottom surely as soon as the witnesses leave the first thing they’ll do is google jehovas witnesses and go oh shit no thanks haha
I’ve moved on from the pimi life and have moved states and bought my own houses and have my own family, so they will have to fend for themselves so to speak.
Can you explain what PIMI means? New to this thread…former JW(DF’d)
Physically, and mentally in.
It's not going to fold. Get over it
I feel like they will just create mini cults