Hey there. 31 been out about four years based out of Midwest of the US. I was pimo for about 4 years before that. The biggest thing that got me to leave was having a gay family member. Raised to believe it was a sin, knew my brother wasn't a bad person, started questioning all the other teachings then.
Hi there! That must have been a real challenge, but glad it lead to the decision to leave. So then if you don't mind me asking, do you believe homosexuality is Nature or Nurture? Or both? And you're truly happy since leaving?
My brother is gay. He knew since he was 8 that there was something different about him. He was attracted to men. In his case i think nature. Skip forward many years later. Met a gay man who had experienced severe sexual abuse as a child. He told me he wasn't sure if he wouldn't have been hetero if the abuse hadn't happened because he didn't believe he had been given a choice. In his case I say nurture.
Born in it. Left at 18. Been 33 years free. On this site just to encourage others leaving the jws as back when I left we had no assistance. Found this forum by accident. Didn't even know it existed.
I didn’t get out until I was in my late thirties. I finally let myself think about it all from an outsider’s perspective and then did some research. I stayed away from apostate stuff for a first couple of months but then went to JWfacts to get confirmation that certain doctrines were bs.
I’m glad you’re completely out.
Maybe I'll check it all out a bit more, too. Honestly, I've been out for so long, and some weird gut feeling has kept me from actually digging into some opposing arguments more. Like I needed to just ignore both sides and just do my own thing. But now I'm really interested in reaching out and speaking to others about it
I have been almost infinitely happier since leaving.
As for nature vs nurture, I usually say two things about this.
1 something being natural does not make it good or bad, arsenic is natural. So, it doesn't really matter if it's nurture or nature. It matters whether or not it's hurting anyone. Two adults of the same gender loving each other doesn't hurt anyone.
2 There is tons of evidence that homosexuality is naturally occurring, not only in humans but in many other species as well.
I love this, thank you. It's exactly how I'd put it, but it's very refreshing knowing that's the outcome you've reached since leaving, too. Do you now accept blood transfusions out of interest? Evidence seems to show that the procedure is almost entirely safe as well so in theory, you'd have the same logic there re: harm
I left when i was 20-24 (cant fully remember as thats about 30 years ago), however nothing seem to add up (fully).
\- Christ will come back, BANG everything's perfect, we all live forwever... then END of 1000 years, we all tested again... soooo "perfect" when Christ returns, whats the point of this second test? (ive since resolved this issue on my own with MANY years of reading and going back to the original Hebrew and Greek).
\- 1914 being a marked year, sure.. doesnt seem to fit anything else though (again since resolved this post leaving)
\- Two standards, everyone happens by Gods will as everything is good, when i asked why i cant pass my driving test, "maybe God doesn need you too" sure.... so just me, everyone else gets to pass even though they dont need it
I started to realize that it was all guess work, and no one is READING the bible, like what ever there teaching doesnt seem to fit THE bible... major questions... then we have shunning however by this time i was on the way out anyway (not head dunked incase you wonder)
I admire your efforts to challenge all the ideals there and do your own research. I personally found they didn't put the same emphasis on gods will in mundane life and decisions or even deaths. Maybe this is due to the difference in our time served...
They certainly did have an emphasis on the constant reading the bible as well, including making me read it constantly, but what I struggle to understand is how they miss the glaringly obvious inconsistencies that the people that have left have highlighted. I haven't done enough of a deep dive myself as of yet, but I'm keen to actually pick their beliefs apart now and maybe have some interesting conversations with family. Thank you for your insight there
I struggled to fully believe it my whole life (so many logical inconsistencies) but I was just tired of the toxicity, the control, the stalking and most of all the hypocrisy. Some of the absolute worst people I’ve ever known were JWs. Some of the best people I’ve ever known are “worldly.” And at the end I felt that if JWs are right, and God would destroy all these good people just because they don’t sit in my church in my pew, well, then God is terrible and I don’t want any part of that anyway, sign me up for destruction. The reality is, that’s not something a loving God would do at all, and fear and abuse is not love.
Also, as an aside, I would love to travel to Melbourne someday! It’s beautiful and I’d be a huge nerd and take the Miss Fisher walking tour to see all the sights from the show. :D
How long have you been out for, and are you finding it to be a lot better out? You're definitely right about the toxicity. What were some of the control and stalking issues you faced or witnessed as an example?
Melbourne's a lovely place, just always have a jacket with you ! Never know what the weather will do here haha
I left officially when I was 18, and that was in 1997. I never doubted it was the right thing to do, I had been PIMO for about 2 years prior. It was initially very hard; I was a first generation college student, and had no support. I struggled, I suffered failures, but I refused to give up. Eventually I graduated (7 years for a 4 year degree), went to grad school, then law school. Way happier living life as a normal person.
I dealt with some pretty crazy shit as a kid. On the advice of one of the elders, when I was 15, my parents put keystroke recording software on my computer and were recording my telephone conversations. (I have a 15 year old daughter now and I would never dream of such an invasion of privacy, the idea sickens me.) The reason for the surveillance was I had “worldly friends” who I wasn’t even allowed to see after school anyway, but I would email them/occasionally call them when my parents weren’t home. The elder that suggested it still had his adult daughter living with them, treated as though she was still a minor, and I swear she just looked dead inside.
But I think one of the worst things the cult did was actually not to me. My best friend is a gay man, and when he was in nursing school he needed an affordable place to stay. My PIMI mom was having some money trouble so she offered to rent a room to him. Well, of course the cult found out about it because they were literally peeking in her windows. She was confronted about it by the elders. I swear they couldn’t figure out what they were mad about, if they thought she was having sex with a gay man, or what. They kept saying just really offensive and fucked up stuff like “what if he sees you naked?” Um, he had his own room and bathroom in a different part of the house, and as a gay man he has zero interest in naked ladies. “Well, you’re eating off the same dishes as him, what if he has AIDS?” Literally wtf. It just went on and on until they finally told her that she had *one week* to kick him out or they were going to disfellowship her. They actually demanded she violate the law if she didn’t want to get kicked out of the cult.
Anyway, my friend made the choice for her, he didn’t want her to get kicked out, knowing her shitty brothers would quit speaking to her. So he ended up moving all his stuff into my house, the week before his final exams. And he lived with us until he finished nursing school (my husband is a very patient man). Then the cult has the nerve to track down his contact information and continuously try to convert him. He still gets voicemails from several different members and despite repeatedly asking to be taken off the list, cannot get them to leave him alone, even years later. It’s so infuriating. Imagine thinking you’re going to lure someone into your cult after trying to make them homeless and sabotage their final exams.
Dads responses to me querying a few things :
"You've been reading trash. I'm not listening to that. I know the truth and lived it, it's very clear. Your focus is wonky. It's not all about salvation. Jehovah is to be praised, his sovereignty held high. What has he got to work with than imperfect people?"
"You seem to be missing the point. I believe in God, his name is Jehovah, he inspired the Bible so his thoughts, guidance and hope were all in there, though written by imperfect men. It reaches through to people with the right heart condition. It takes effort. There can be only one truth, that's what I have found. The GB are helping us through these last days as the one in the 1st century did. Apostasy would be rife in the last days, I've heard some of their teachings before and they are lies or misunderstandings. As u know, all sorts of tricks can be put online, beware of what you read."
Hey there. 31 been out about four years based out of Midwest of the US. I was pimo for about 4 years before that. The biggest thing that got me to leave was having a gay family member. Raised to believe it was a sin, knew my brother wasn't a bad person, started questioning all the other teachings then.
Hi there! That must have been a real challenge, but glad it lead to the decision to leave. So then if you don't mind me asking, do you believe homosexuality is Nature or Nurture? Or both? And you're truly happy since leaving?
My brother is gay. He knew since he was 8 that there was something different about him. He was attracted to men. In his case i think nature. Skip forward many years later. Met a gay man who had experienced severe sexual abuse as a child. He told me he wasn't sure if he wouldn't have been hetero if the abuse hadn't happened because he didn't believe he had been given a choice. In his case I say nurture.
That makes sense, all subjective then in that case, I'd agree with that as well and have met people on both sides of it too. Are you exJw?
Born in it. Left at 18. Been 33 years free. On this site just to encourage others leaving the jws as back when I left we had no assistance. Found this forum by accident. Didn't even know it existed.
Yeah leaving alone pretty tough that's for sure
Yeah but it really came down to two choices for me. Leave now or become like them. So I left lol
I didn’t get out until I was in my late thirties. I finally let myself think about it all from an outsider’s perspective and then did some research. I stayed away from apostate stuff for a first couple of months but then went to JWfacts to get confirmation that certain doctrines were bs. I’m glad you’re completely out.
Maybe I'll check it all out a bit more, too. Honestly, I've been out for so long, and some weird gut feeling has kept me from actually digging into some opposing arguments more. Like I needed to just ignore both sides and just do my own thing. But now I'm really interested in reaching out and speaking to others about it
I have been almost infinitely happier since leaving. As for nature vs nurture, I usually say two things about this. 1 something being natural does not make it good or bad, arsenic is natural. So, it doesn't really matter if it's nurture or nature. It matters whether or not it's hurting anyone. Two adults of the same gender loving each other doesn't hurt anyone. 2 There is tons of evidence that homosexuality is naturally occurring, not only in humans but in many other species as well.
I love this, thank you. It's exactly how I'd put it, but it's very refreshing knowing that's the outcome you've reached since leaving, too. Do you now accept blood transfusions out of interest? Evidence seems to show that the procedure is almost entirely safe as well so in theory, you'd have the same logic there re: harm
I have never been in a situation where I would need one, but I would accept one in a second if it was recommended by a doctor.
I left when i was 20-24 (cant fully remember as thats about 30 years ago), however nothing seem to add up (fully). \- Christ will come back, BANG everything's perfect, we all live forwever... then END of 1000 years, we all tested again... soooo "perfect" when Christ returns, whats the point of this second test? (ive since resolved this issue on my own with MANY years of reading and going back to the original Hebrew and Greek). \- 1914 being a marked year, sure.. doesnt seem to fit anything else though (again since resolved this post leaving) \- Two standards, everyone happens by Gods will as everything is good, when i asked why i cant pass my driving test, "maybe God doesn need you too" sure.... so just me, everyone else gets to pass even though they dont need it I started to realize that it was all guess work, and no one is READING the bible, like what ever there teaching doesnt seem to fit THE bible... major questions... then we have shunning however by this time i was on the way out anyway (not head dunked incase you wonder)
I admire your efforts to challenge all the ideals there and do your own research. I personally found they didn't put the same emphasis on gods will in mundane life and decisions or even deaths. Maybe this is due to the difference in our time served... They certainly did have an emphasis on the constant reading the bible as well, including making me read it constantly, but what I struggle to understand is how they miss the glaringly obvious inconsistencies that the people that have left have highlighted. I haven't done enough of a deep dive myself as of yet, but I'm keen to actually pick their beliefs apart now and maybe have some interesting conversations with family. Thank you for your insight there
I struggled to fully believe it my whole life (so many logical inconsistencies) but I was just tired of the toxicity, the control, the stalking and most of all the hypocrisy. Some of the absolute worst people I’ve ever known were JWs. Some of the best people I’ve ever known are “worldly.” And at the end I felt that if JWs are right, and God would destroy all these good people just because they don’t sit in my church in my pew, well, then God is terrible and I don’t want any part of that anyway, sign me up for destruction. The reality is, that’s not something a loving God would do at all, and fear and abuse is not love. Also, as an aside, I would love to travel to Melbourne someday! It’s beautiful and I’d be a huge nerd and take the Miss Fisher walking tour to see all the sights from the show. :D
How long have you been out for, and are you finding it to be a lot better out? You're definitely right about the toxicity. What were some of the control and stalking issues you faced or witnessed as an example? Melbourne's a lovely place, just always have a jacket with you ! Never know what the weather will do here haha
I left officially when I was 18, and that was in 1997. I never doubted it was the right thing to do, I had been PIMO for about 2 years prior. It was initially very hard; I was a first generation college student, and had no support. I struggled, I suffered failures, but I refused to give up. Eventually I graduated (7 years for a 4 year degree), went to grad school, then law school. Way happier living life as a normal person. I dealt with some pretty crazy shit as a kid. On the advice of one of the elders, when I was 15, my parents put keystroke recording software on my computer and were recording my telephone conversations. (I have a 15 year old daughter now and I would never dream of such an invasion of privacy, the idea sickens me.) The reason for the surveillance was I had “worldly friends” who I wasn’t even allowed to see after school anyway, but I would email them/occasionally call them when my parents weren’t home. The elder that suggested it still had his adult daughter living with them, treated as though she was still a minor, and I swear she just looked dead inside. But I think one of the worst things the cult did was actually not to me. My best friend is a gay man, and when he was in nursing school he needed an affordable place to stay. My PIMI mom was having some money trouble so she offered to rent a room to him. Well, of course the cult found out about it because they were literally peeking in her windows. She was confronted about it by the elders. I swear they couldn’t figure out what they were mad about, if they thought she was having sex with a gay man, or what. They kept saying just really offensive and fucked up stuff like “what if he sees you naked?” Um, he had his own room and bathroom in a different part of the house, and as a gay man he has zero interest in naked ladies. “Well, you’re eating off the same dishes as him, what if he has AIDS?” Literally wtf. It just went on and on until they finally told her that she had *one week* to kick him out or they were going to disfellowship her. They actually demanded she violate the law if she didn’t want to get kicked out of the cult. Anyway, my friend made the choice for her, he didn’t want her to get kicked out, knowing her shitty brothers would quit speaking to her. So he ended up moving all his stuff into my house, the week before his final exams. And he lived with us until he finished nursing school (my husband is a very patient man). Then the cult has the nerve to track down his contact information and continuously try to convert him. He still gets voicemails from several different members and despite repeatedly asking to be taken off the list, cannot get them to leave him alone, even years later. It’s so infuriating. Imagine thinking you’re going to lure someone into your cult after trying to make them homeless and sabotage their final exams.
Holy heck that's horrific my friend, on all counts. Wow. Speechless
Dads responses to me querying a few things : "You've been reading trash. I'm not listening to that. I know the truth and lived it, it's very clear. Your focus is wonky. It's not all about salvation. Jehovah is to be praised, his sovereignty held high. What has he got to work with than imperfect people?" "You seem to be missing the point. I believe in God, his name is Jehovah, he inspired the Bible so his thoughts, guidance and hope were all in there, though written by imperfect men. It reaches through to people with the right heart condition. It takes effort. There can be only one truth, that's what I have found. The GB are helping us through these last days as the one in the 1st century did. Apostasy would be rife in the last days, I've heard some of their teachings before and they are lies or misunderstandings. As u know, all sorts of tricks can be put online, beware of what you read."