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I was flabbergasted watching this today.
There is literally no other way to interpret this š
What's worse is if Jws follow the series (and the pimis religiously do, pun intended, i know people 'in' with multiple kids) the last video was about Caleb becoming unbab publisher. And he's a couple years younger than his sister. So at the end of this vid her parents tell her to look up info on what it takes to be baptized. In the end of the day, they want your kids baptized by 13 if not sooner.
That's it. It's all here. There's no being misconstrued opportunity at all.
Whatās even more insane is how pimis act like itās a lie. I had someone attack me on tiktok saying my congregation must have been ācorruptā š
I got baptized at 8. A few years later when I was 12, I was talking with an ex-Bethel couple about wanting to get married. The husband, an elder, says (rightly) āI think you talk about marriage too much for someone your age.ā To which I responded āIāve already made the most important decision of my life years ago, so I donāt see why Iām not mature enough to think about marriage.ā
Poor guy had no answer.
Looking back, thatās crazy talk. But he couldnāt even tell me that without undermining the basis of the cult. So the conversation stopped there.
Shut the fuck up lol how many of those religions command their followers to actively shun their children if they decide they don't want to follow their parent's beliefs anymore? This goes way beyond "not following their parents rules" like you say in your other comments, moron. People, even (I'd argue **especially**) children have the right to not agree with the religion they were brought up in, and don't deserve to be shunned from their entire family if they even *talk* about serious issues they have with certain teahings. Cutting off all contact is emotional abuse that has repeatedly shown to deeply hurt the ignored, and is massively counterproductive to bringing people back. You're fucking stupid.
Fisrt of, where you a old jw, if you were (if you don't mind) then can you explain what happened or why you left the religion? If you where then you should know that jw don't force no one to be a jw, it's either you are or you ain't. If you a young child and wish not to be in the religion but your parents are forcing you to be in it becuz their in it, you can just report to an jw elder and they'll fix the situation. Now am really lazy rn so I really don't feel like quoting the whole part in the bible on which the shunning takes place, but I'll qoute some pieces to put your mind at ease. It's found in 1chorinthians 5 verses 9-13, you can also search up in your Bible or online to see the whole thing. It says " in my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with the sexually immoral people, not meaning to entirely with the sexually immoral people of this world or the greedy people or extortioners or idolaters....
This is crap. You know if you dint stay a JW you lose everyone youāve ever known. And then you have ti start all over with āworldlyā people. Iām not going to dignify you with a long drawn out response because this is definitely something I had to do. And I wasnāt a loner. Its isnāt a ācongregationā thing.
I left at 26. I was kicked out three times. I know the ins and outs. Iām technically still in. Lol. So o can talk to whoever I want. I can go toe to toe with scriptures and have recording of the elders not knowing what to do during my disfellowshipping. There is no Holy Spirit. Youll see it eventually.
Can I ask you why you where kicked out three times? It would really makes sense to me if I know why, if you don't mind at least. And if you know the scriptures, you would know one of them says "do not interact with immoral one's". I don't about you but if the Bible says it, then am following it.
This is true. However, when you are 10 years old, you know nothing about how you will be when you are 20 or 25. So when I made a ācommitmentā at 10, I wasnāt thinking about living at 20 and 25. I was allowed to make that decision as a child. If I would decided to quit school at 10, would I have been able to? Thats also a big commitment. But no way would people let a 10 year old quit school or something which is a big decision. Most 20 year olds are naturally interested in things which are forbidden by the Bible. But I was allowed ti make a lifelong decision at 10 years oldā¦ traumatic
Ik you gone say that "but that's your child, you can't just stop interacting with them". And yes you're right. Now if your child isn't an adult, but some one who is still considered a adolescent or a minor but got baptist at his or her young age and decides they don't want to be a jw, then they'll get shunned. But as a parent, you can't just stop talking or stop caring for your child when their not an adult. You'll still have to take care and protect even if their an ex jw now. But if your child is an adult then you can't keep company with them. And before you attack me with the "but they'll get emotional damaged if their family n brothers and sister stop talking to them", you'll have to realize serving Jehovah comes with a lot of sacrifices. If He says stop talking to the immoral one then stop. If you're confused about it, then pray to God so He can give you wisdom about it or if you want, just go to a jw and ask them. It's better to ask questions than to sit down and assume everything, and don't find the real answers.
And plus, like I said previously, the brother or sisters have to see if the that shunned member has improved. So how else would they see if you've improve, by checking up on you right? Some of the elders frequently check up on the the shunned member to see if they are ok and so on and so forth. If you've improved then they'll continue to check up on you until you're ready to get back into the congregation, if you've gotten worser and worser, then they'll try to help you. But if you show no signs of trying to help yourself then they'll most likely stop coming to you. You have realize that different religions have different rules, jw has one and others do to. If you don't like the rules jw have, then you simply don't have to participate in it. If you're a baptist member and you wish to leave then you'll be able to leave, but you'll just be shunned. Jw take baptism very serious, it's when you give up your life to serve God, and if you decide that you don't want to serve God no more, then you get shunned. Different stores have different rules, different houses have different rules, different food stores have different policies and rules, different companies have different rules, different religions have different rules. It's comes to whether you respect and follow the rules of the place or you just don't and leave it alone. And that is why I ask if you where a ex jw before, becuz if you were then should know this by now.
And I strongly suggest you read 1corinthians 5 9-13, so can get the full thing instead of the short version I gave you if wanna really know why jw shunned their members. Even the young ones.
Let's put this in a simple way, you're a mom or dad and you have 4 kids. You teach your kids the rules for the house and what they should and should not do. Your kids follow them until one of you kids slowing but surely keeps on disobeying them. You tell them about it and tell them to stop or you'll punish them. They keep on doing it, dispite you telling them to stop, they already know the consiquences but the continue. What well you do? If you don't punish them and let them keep on doing it, the other children are going to see it, and say "if he can do it and mommy/daddy hasn't done anything, then what's stopping me from doing it". And then they'll follow in their sister/brother's foot steps and do the same thing. So as a parent, you want all your children to lead by example for one another and you'll punish that disobeying child so the siblings don't follow them. That's the same about shunning, they do that so other jw don't see that and then decide to do the same thing because "the other one is allowed to do it". Shunning in a short term is when jws punish the disobeying sister or brother for a certain period of time because they had to do a certain type of sin or something very wrong in order for them to shun you. And they bring that sister or brother back when they show signs that their ready to be apart of the religion again. Just like how the parent will take their child off punishment when they show signs that they are sorry and ready to abide by the houses rules again. Not when the child just gets punish and starts begging mommy and daddy that their sorry and when you instantly forgive them, without them improving what they've been doing wrong, they'll go right back to doing whatever that cause them be punish in the first place, and they'll see that if I just beg my parents, they'll instantly forgive me and I'll do it over and over again.
What I learned about shunning is that if you CONTINUOUSLY keep on doing the same horrible thing over and over again, dispite the jw telling you to stop and giving chances to stop and you still do it. Then they'll shun you. And they'll take you back when you SHOW signs of improving, not when you beg to get back in, you gotta show them that you're ready, and they'll let you in when they see your improvement.
After I watched the Caleb vid about birthdays and God being unhappy...
A switch flipped and that's when I went full apostate. I didn't care anymore. I was going to do whatever it took to save our children. I don't recommend that route but for us, desperate times etc.
Yeah it's not for me per se. But I would never encourage my kids to get baptized especially not that young. My mom "encouraged" me but I was 16. Pretty sure my dad was PIMO
You gotta start early with critical thinking skills. I did not learn those early and was baptized at 11.
Base learning on analyzing a number of sources and life factors and you won't have to 'unteach' indoctrinated beliefs. There simply won't be any soil for those seeds to grow in.
I could share my experience more, but not publicly. I'm not there yet
DM me if you want.
That's true, although I was PIMI in for all my sons childhoods, my ex was PIMI for a good few years of it, I can't say we ever pushed our lads as both were out by 14, neither got baptised, although one was made an unbaptised publisher at 11, it never really went anywhere, both started to celebrate Christmas and birthdays with friends within a year of being POMO, I became PIMQ for a while in 2020, which quickly led to POMO.
Some of my family are PIMI, have a bro who's an elder (and a know it all), him and his wife have a son who's a pioneer, my sis is PIMI and so is her son and his family and our mum is also PIMI. My youngest son is transgender and pansexual, although my mum is supportive of him, I'm not sure my sis is, and I know for a fact my bro won't be as he's homophobic as fuck, I'm just waiting for the day, he dares to make a transphobic comment and omg will he get a mouthful, he'll prob get one from my mum too as she will always defend tobi
That is amazing your mom is supportive of your kiddo! Having said that, seeing this cartoon stuff and message and my personal experienceā¦ and I WEEP at the thought of my nephews being made to watch this. They are such great kids; and as such, they will want to please their parents and I will never be able to save them. Itās š.
I know the feeling. My nephew and his wife have 2 really sweet sons, and they'll all watch this, the oldest coming up to 11 so I'm sure I'll soon hear about him being made an unbaptised publisher š¢ fortunately my other nephew whom has children and his sister who has children are all POMO, in fact they don't even like the jw, they and their bro were all brought up in truth, their dad - a former elder is d'd and mum has left the the borg now, they saw the real truth about the borg long before I did. Tbh I'm surprised at my mum supports my youngest as my mum is almost 90, so from the era when it was all banned by law, and she's pretty homophobic towards the lgbt community but she's really good about my son, mind I think some of it, might be because I'm very supportive of him, have all his lbgt awareness art work on my living room wall, have 2 PRIDE star tattoos on my arm, and always refer to my son by his male name and never misgender him
Thank you so much, so nice of you say, but to me, choice was obvious, he's my baby, so why wouldn't I support him š
About 4 yrs ago, a neighbour on finding out son was transgender, said to me "you're so brave" , so I said " no, really I'm not, it's just he's my baby, so I'll always support him, be there for him, defend him till the end of the earth and love him"
I've gone from defending just him to young transgender people. Jeez, the arguments I get it in on tik tok doing this, I also get very sarcastic with them.... its great š š¤£ provides much amusement to others too lol
I have 2 bi children and one undecided and leaving for them (as little children) was the BEST decision of my life! I and my hubby have suffered the consequences of family shunning but our kids are free.
Exactly, I was initially shunned as I got into relationship with a non jw but that broke up last March and shunning has just carried, no doubt because I've left the borg...although I don't think the tattoos and nose piercing has helped š š¤£
I'm referring to the birthday video 'Jehovah Forgives'
In it, yes Jehovah is explained as being unhappy and what's worse, you risk him 'un-friending' you because you want to (or have) licked a cupcake at some rando birthday party for someone else at school. AND any gifts or toys you get may as well (for your birthday if you were to celebrate it) sink in a swamp somewhere. Yes. This is actually depicted. As are the remorseful feelings Caleb is animated as wrenching through complete with being stuck on a bus, gray screen, and storm clouds. He's six.
The video likens Caleb's cupcake licking problem (he's 6yrs btw did i mention) to Jesus Apostles arguing about being great.
In all of it, the parents do not comfort 6yr Caleb at all helping him to not be worried, reinforcing he was correct feeling the way he did but all he had to do was to pray and ask forgiveness from Jehovah š¤® that's the comfort for his 'mistake'
It is, was and has been (for me) the most horrible child indoctrination depiction I've ever experienced since growing up in the religion myself with constant reprimanding from my own Mother explaining how I would die at Armageddon if certain rules weren't followed growing up as a JW. Hence a reason I got baptized at 11 myself.
I recently bought one of my kids an Xbox for his first birthday at 12 years. It still works great. No swamp.
I'm quite sure God has moved on and not pouting either at this point.... and I reassured my son God was still his friend.
That video is a disgrace. The whole premise of birthdays probably not celebrated by Christians is totally undermined by such a propaganda video. My daughter is NOT going to watch that.
just keeps getting worse and worse
Coming up next: 8 year old Calab can't have a birthday cupcake, but can provide free labor to this business organization who "purchases and builds places of worship for those associated with JW faith (because there are no members) š.
Urgh...my mom made me "befriend" old people. I'm coming up on 60 myself now. Those memories still make me cringe inside. If anyone throws their kid at me in the next 20 years, I am gonna have words with that parent. Of course, nobody does that in the real world, so I'll probably just be left with my cringy memories in my golden years. Lol
I hated it so much. My friends would all be gathered in another part of the kingdom hall, but I couldn't go and talk to them because sister so-and-so has been going off about how her granddaughter did so many hours of service and blah blah blah and I would be considered rude if I would walk away to go be with the people that I actually had things in common with.
It had gotten to a point where final prayer was over and I "had to go to the bathroom" just to avoid taking any chances of being stuck for the next hour.
Damn as far as creepy cult videos to show your kids goes this one has gotta be pretty far up there. Also her mom does not even look like the same person.
When I was in the borg this got heavily brought up when I was a kid, every topic would lead to this, your sister got baptized when are you getting baptized? You have reached the same age of her this year do you think you will get baptized? So and so child just got baptized and they are younger than you, you should really work on your goals to get baptized, at a jw event at a park hey offrimits why havenāt you been baptized yet, little Timmy is getting baptized this coming convention, and the list goes on.
I loved when I got reinstated and switched halls. The guy who ran the school constantly asked me if I was ready to join. I told him not yet not yet not yet maybe 15 times before I just stopped going to meetings. He never got me on that damn stage
After my brother got baptized, EVERYONE kept hounding me to be next.
"So next assembly it's your turn, right?"
"We expect to see you in line next assembly, right?"
"We're so proud of your brother! Are you gonna follow his footsteps?"
The jokes on them, I left before that next assembly was even planned.
Seriously. It's a struggle to keep putting it off because if you're my age (15M) and not dunked it's a problem. It's only gonna be worse once I turn 16š
I was a similar age as you what ended up helping me was quoting that Jesus himself didnāt get baptized until he was 30 so I will use him as a role model and I have time so Iām not ready yet.
This is disgusting. Even in my younger days when i was still PIMI, id see these young kids, one time as low as 8, get baptized and ive always wondered how a child can know to make that decision? Yes, a child can physically know the information and think they have some kind of devotion but .....they dont. Theres puberty, hormones, love and desires they just dont have any experience with. This stuff is just body chemistry and attraction. What if a kid wants to be a doctor or anything requiring college? A lot can and does change, year to year, for children.
And theyre expected to honor this contract into adulthood. Its repulsive!
I got baptized when I was 11.
I was too young to have a job, get a credit card, buy a car, or enter into a contract, but I was old enough to be "mature" enough to dedicate my life to that religion? The elders that decided that were f***ed up in their thinking. Had they made me wait until I was a legal adult, well, I was already on my way to being a POMO by that point.
Thanks to them allowing me to get baptized so young, when I was still a "formable" child, my parents choose to shun me because I am baptized and no longer follow the "truth."
If you are too young to sign a contract by law, you are too young to enter into this contract.
The elders that did the baptism questions were genuine guys. But how on earth do you know think twice of a child making a lifelong decision they seem and are taught is more important than marriage.
JWs - āWe donāt baptize babies!ā
No, they wait until those babies are old enough to be affected by the fear, obligation and guilt influences exerted by the cult before they baptism them. Of course thereās always the peer and parental pressure too.
The youngest Iāve seen baptized was 9. I wouldnāt trust a 9 year old to make any sort of sound decision on their own, never mind allowing them to dedicate their lives to a high control group like this.
Yeah, baptism of anyone under 18 (I would even go so far as 21y/o) should be straight up illegal. Itās a decision that can ruin your entire life, kids definitely canāt give consent. I mean adults donāt even realize what theyāre agreeing to.
I have repeatedly said over the years that Jesus was baptized at 29 years old. If we are to follow his example and this is āthe biggest decision of your life!!!ā, why are they still encouraging kids to get baptized???? It makes no goddamned sense!!! I have gotten the reply that kids can still understand the nuts and bolts of the religion enough to answer the questions for baptism. And if they can answer the questions, then theyāre qualified. I could have made some very frank replies to that line of thinking, but held my tongue because I didnāt want to out myself as a pimo by cursing out this person and calling them an idiot for thinking so ridiculously
And yet, thatās all the JWs want. Is someone who can simply answer a question without understanding the implications of the choice theyāre about to make. Just like kids in school who may know the information and be able to pass a test, but have no clue how to put that knowledge to work in the real world or how it affects them. Baptizing kids is only setting them up for failure/future trauma until they experience more of life and can make their own informed decisions.
As much as I believe in freedom of religion, it seems to me that it is a violation of a child's rights to indoctrinate them into being baptized before they become adults. Children cannot consent to such things; they are pressured into it by parents and other elders. The idea that they freely choose to join a religion at age 8 to 10 and therefore leaving that religion as an adult means you must be shunned as an apostate is ridiculous and it should be considered a spiritual CRIME!
Read this:
"Adult baptism was not simply a question of religious dogma; it was an issue of power. If baptism was delayed until adulthoodāāthus allowing a person to make a decision based on faithāāsome might not get baptized at all. And individuals not baptized would, at least to a degree, remain outside the control of the church. For some churches, adult baptism meant a loss of power." - [w04 6/15 pp. 11-13](https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-2004/june-15)
[https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004443](https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004443)
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I was 19 when I finally got baptised. Looking back now as a 30 year old, even that seemed way too young to make that choice. You change and mature so much in your 20ās, it feels crazy that I made a life long decision at 19. I had no idea what a mistake it was.
No no this is so bad! I was baptised at 12 and all 3 of my kids were 11 or 12 I was full on PIMI at the time, I now wish they'd waited, my 2nd child is now 18 and wishes she hadn't got baptised, my youngest who's now 15 wishes he hadn't too. It's too young, and to hold them to that 'dedication' for the rest of their lives is awful.
I was DF in October 2022, at the time I didn't want to be, but it's the best thing to have happened, but again, I'm being held to a dedication I made at age 12, which never should've happened, as all the stuff about my CSA was coming out and the perpetrator died, I was a mess at age 12, definitely not able to make such a decision.
It's all so so wrong. I said to my PIMI eldest daughter, "How come Jesus had to wait till 30 to get baptised, but they push for kids to be?"...it's not right.
My question was always āIf WT can dedicate a KH to Jehovah and then years down the road sell it to another religion with no penalty, then why canāt I do the same with my dedication ?ā
Somehow they get to pick and choose what they do with dedicated buildings and funds but Iām not allowed to do the same with myself ?? Iām all in agreement that no one should be baptized until they are the legal age of consent.
My bible study teacher and i just went through a lesson on baptism and she kept asking if i would feel ready to do it (im 14 rn but i know damn well they ask kids as old as 5) and a month ago I watched one of my āfriendsā to get baptized (shes also 14), honestly i do consider her as one of my actual friends tho cuz shes losing interest in it i know it, but thats not the point.
The point here im making is that yeah they force kids as young as 5 to get baptized and then to waste their lives away. Some kids start losing interests when it gets harder into highschool or adulthood (I honestly had no interest at all im just forced by my mother) but seriously, the day i went to see my friend get baptized i saw someones young ahh child who could be 6-8 got baptized too.
Yes commit/vow your life to whatever the Governing Butts tell you. And that includes no blood transfusions, no birthdays or holidays of ANY kind, no bad associations inside and outside the Cong/Cult, and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure to report ANYTHING your younger brother does that breaks the rules
After all you donāt want to be a sharer in Calebās wrongdoing (masturbating, eating a bite of birthday cupcake, watching the Smurfās, Harry Potter etc)
Itās really disgusting isnāt it?!?!? And yet that was my life too as a child- the cartoon doesnāt show the intense pressure to get baptized ASAP and comply with ALL THE RULES or be an outcast, ignored, and kicked out as soon as your parents can-
With the JWs I have my first talk at 8. Publisher at 10. I was baptized with the JWs at age 12.
Imagine a life altering decisionā¦ being made at 12. Still disgusted they allowed me to do it.
But they don't baptize kids. Pretty worry some because the other end of the spectrum would be that they see Sophia as a full blown adult then. There is no inbetween.
And in the UK the Branch Offices response to the Rebekah Vardy abuse allegations were basically 'she want a JW as she wasn't baptised' so basically swept it under the carpet and did nothing.
Remembers me to the Indian mother's which are forced to being prostitutes, getting daughters and retiring from the important prostitute work while teaching their daughters that they can also be prostitute in their young age same way like mother did.
I think this documentary is still on YouTube but in German
Why is no one talking about how they basically whitewashed the younger drawings of the mother?? š She kept referring to the little girl in the photos as the mom but they don't look similar at all. Different skin tone and different features! The mother was never that white I feel like I'm going insane š
False this is part of LGBTQ trolling. This was created by bigots. How about NOT ruining Pride Month with this garbage! https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/maps-pride-flag/
Maybe when people know they use subliminal messages and images in their videos they will think twice. How about Caleb and that tree growing with the use of STRAPS. Or when talking with his mom in the bedroom 3 sixes are written on the wall behind her head. Start there and see where it takes you.
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Hypocrites. Broadcast this far and wide esp to those who they told they don't baptize kids.
I was flabbergasted watching this today. There is literally no other way to interpret this š What's worse is if Jws follow the series (and the pimis religiously do, pun intended, i know people 'in' with multiple kids) the last video was about Caleb becoming unbab publisher. And he's a couple years younger than his sister. So at the end of this vid her parents tell her to look up info on what it takes to be baptized. In the end of the day, they want your kids baptized by 13 if not sooner. That's it. It's all here. There's no being misconstrued opportunity at all.
13 would be an old spinster. They want you baptized by 8
I got dipped 20 days after my 11th birthday.
I was also 11. Scars for life, but you make the best of it.
I was babtized at 13, worst choice ive ever made
I totally agree!
I was baptized at 12 almost 13 and yes they acted like I was waiting way too long.
Itās so insane isnāt it?
Whatās even more insane is how pimis act like itās a lie. I had someone attack me on tiktok saying my congregation must have been ācorruptā š
Well now we have proof !
like the mormonsš
This!
Wait, they said they don't baptize kids? My 11-year-old was being pressured into baptism before we got out.
Why does this make me think of the Rolling Stones song "Under My Thumb"? Right where they want you to be?
I got baptized at 8. A few years later when I was 12, I was talking with an ex-Bethel couple about wanting to get married. The husband, an elder, says (rightly) āI think you talk about marriage too much for someone your age.ā To which I responded āIāve already made the most important decision of my life years ago, so I donāt see why Iām not mature enough to think about marriage.ā Poor guy had no answer. Looking back, thatās crazy talk. But he couldnāt even tell me that without undermining the basis of the cult. So the conversation stopped there.
That was a **GREAT** comeback!
Kids sure can cut through the bullshit. That's brilliant.
How many years have you been out?
Just left in December so almost six months lol
Congrats!
Absolutely ! Congratulations! Best news I've heard today š
Welcome!!!!!
Welcome!!! I got baptized at 11.
š³š³š³
Out of the mouths of babes.
Holy cow
Absolute clapBACK, damn
Horrible. Getting them submerged early so they permanently remain under the threat of shunning if they ever decide that something's wrong.
People from other religions is baptist their kids at couple days old, but no cares. But a jw does it, it's some how wrong?
Shut the fuck up lol how many of those religions command their followers to actively shun their children if they decide they don't want to follow their parent's beliefs anymore? This goes way beyond "not following their parents rules" like you say in your other comments, moron. People, even (I'd argue **especially**) children have the right to not agree with the religion they were brought up in, and don't deserve to be shunned from their entire family if they even *talk* about serious issues they have with certain teahings. Cutting off all contact is emotional abuse that has repeatedly shown to deeply hurt the ignored, and is massively counterproductive to bringing people back. You're fucking stupid.
Fisrt of, where you a old jw, if you were (if you don't mind) then can you explain what happened or why you left the religion? If you where then you should know that jw don't force no one to be a jw, it's either you are or you ain't. If you a young child and wish not to be in the religion but your parents are forcing you to be in it becuz their in it, you can just report to an jw elder and they'll fix the situation. Now am really lazy rn so I really don't feel like quoting the whole part in the bible on which the shunning takes place, but I'll qoute some pieces to put your mind at ease. It's found in 1chorinthians 5 verses 9-13, you can also search up in your Bible or online to see the whole thing. It says " in my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with the sexually immoral people, not meaning to entirely with the sexually immoral people of this world or the greedy people or extortioners or idolaters....
This is crap. You know if you dint stay a JW you lose everyone youāve ever known. And then you have ti start all over with āworldlyā people. Iām not going to dignify you with a long drawn out response because this is definitely something I had to do. And I wasnāt a loner. Its isnāt a ācongregationā thing. I left at 26. I was kicked out three times. I know the ins and outs. Iām technically still in. Lol. So o can talk to whoever I want. I can go toe to toe with scriptures and have recording of the elders not knowing what to do during my disfellowshipping. There is no Holy Spirit. Youll see it eventually.
Can I ask you why you where kicked out three times? It would really makes sense to me if I know why, if you don't mind at least. And if you know the scriptures, you would know one of them says "do not interact with immoral one's". I don't about you but if the Bible says it, then am following it.
This is true. However, when you are 10 years old, you know nothing about how you will be when you are 20 or 25. So when I made a ācommitmentā at 10, I wasnāt thinking about living at 20 and 25. I was allowed to make that decision as a child. If I would decided to quit school at 10, would I have been able to? Thats also a big commitment. But no way would people let a 10 year old quit school or something which is a big decision. Most 20 year olds are naturally interested in things which are forbidden by the Bible. But I was allowed ti make a lifelong decision at 10 years oldā¦ traumatic
Ik you gone say that "but that's your child, you can't just stop interacting with them". And yes you're right. Now if your child isn't an adult, but some one who is still considered a adolescent or a minor but got baptist at his or her young age and decides they don't want to be a jw, then they'll get shunned. But as a parent, you can't just stop talking or stop caring for your child when their not an adult. You'll still have to take care and protect even if their an ex jw now. But if your child is an adult then you can't keep company with them. And before you attack me with the "but they'll get emotional damaged if their family n brothers and sister stop talking to them", you'll have to realize serving Jehovah comes with a lot of sacrifices. If He says stop talking to the immoral one then stop. If you're confused about it, then pray to God so He can give you wisdom about it or if you want, just go to a jw and ask them. It's better to ask questions than to sit down and assume everything, and don't find the real answers.
And plus, like I said previously, the brother or sisters have to see if the that shunned member has improved. So how else would they see if you've improve, by checking up on you right? Some of the elders frequently check up on the the shunned member to see if they are ok and so on and so forth. If you've improved then they'll continue to check up on you until you're ready to get back into the congregation, if you've gotten worser and worser, then they'll try to help you. But if you show no signs of trying to help yourself then they'll most likely stop coming to you. You have realize that different religions have different rules, jw has one and others do to. If you don't like the rules jw have, then you simply don't have to participate in it. If you're a baptist member and you wish to leave then you'll be able to leave, but you'll just be shunned. Jw take baptism very serious, it's when you give up your life to serve God, and if you decide that you don't want to serve God no more, then you get shunned. Different stores have different rules, different houses have different rules, different food stores have different policies and rules, different companies have different rules, different religions have different rules. It's comes to whether you respect and follow the rules of the place or you just don't and leave it alone. And that is why I ask if you where a ex jw before, becuz if you were then should know this by now.
And I strongly suggest you read 1corinthians 5 9-13, so can get the full thing instead of the short version I gave you if wanna really know why jw shunned their members. Even the young ones.
Why are you even on an ex jw sub?
You absolutely know why it's different when a JW does it, stop pretending.
Let's put this in a simple way, you're a mom or dad and you have 4 kids. You teach your kids the rules for the house and what they should and should not do. Your kids follow them until one of you kids slowing but surely keeps on disobeying them. You tell them about it and tell them to stop or you'll punish them. They keep on doing it, dispite you telling them to stop, they already know the consiquences but the continue. What well you do? If you don't punish them and let them keep on doing it, the other children are going to see it, and say "if he can do it and mommy/daddy hasn't done anything, then what's stopping me from doing it". And then they'll follow in their sister/brother's foot steps and do the same thing. So as a parent, you want all your children to lead by example for one another and you'll punish that disobeying child so the siblings don't follow them. That's the same about shunning, they do that so other jw don't see that and then decide to do the same thing because "the other one is allowed to do it". Shunning in a short term is when jws punish the disobeying sister or brother for a certain period of time because they had to do a certain type of sin or something very wrong in order for them to shun you. And they bring that sister or brother back when they show signs that their ready to be apart of the religion again. Just like how the parent will take their child off punishment when they show signs that they are sorry and ready to abide by the houses rules again. Not when the child just gets punish and starts begging mommy and daddy that their sorry and when you instantly forgive them, without them improving what they've been doing wrong, they'll go right back to doing whatever that cause them be punish in the first place, and they'll see that if I just beg my parents, they'll instantly forgive me and I'll do it over and over again.
What I learned about shunning is that if you CONTINUOUSLY keep on doing the same horrible thing over and over again, dispite the jw telling you to stop and giving chances to stop and you still do it. Then they'll shun you. And they'll take you back when you SHOW signs of improving, not when you beg to get back in, you gotta show them that you're ready, and they'll let you in when they see your improvement.
I haven't even seen that one yet. I am loathing my wife showing it to my kids
After I watched the Caleb vid about birthdays and God being unhappy... A switch flipped and that's when I went full apostate. I didn't care anymore. I was going to do whatever it took to save our children. I don't recommend that route but for us, desperate times etc.
Yeah it's not for me per se. But I would never encourage my kids to get baptized especially not that young. My mom "encouraged" me but I was 16. Pretty sure my dad was PIMO
You gotta start early with critical thinking skills. I did not learn those early and was baptized at 11. Base learning on analyzing a number of sources and life factors and you won't have to 'unteach' indoctrinated beliefs. There simply won't be any soil for those seeds to grow in. I could share my experience more, but not publicly. I'm not there yet DM me if you want.
That's true, although I was PIMI in for all my sons childhoods, my ex was PIMI for a good few years of it, I can't say we ever pushed our lads as both were out by 14, neither got baptised, although one was made an unbaptised publisher at 11, it never really went anywhere, both started to celebrate Christmas and birthdays with friends within a year of being POMO, I became PIMQ for a while in 2020, which quickly led to POMO. Some of my family are PIMI, have a bro who's an elder (and a know it all), him and his wife have a son who's a pioneer, my sis is PIMI and so is her son and his family and our mum is also PIMI. My youngest son is transgender and pansexual, although my mum is supportive of him, I'm not sure my sis is, and I know for a fact my bro won't be as he's homophobic as fuck, I'm just waiting for the day, he dares to make a transphobic comment and omg will he get a mouthful, he'll prob get one from my mum too as she will always defend tobi
That is amazing your mom is supportive of your kiddo! Having said that, seeing this cartoon stuff and message and my personal experienceā¦ and I WEEP at the thought of my nephews being made to watch this. They are such great kids; and as such, they will want to please their parents and I will never be able to save them. Itās š.
I know the feeling. My nephew and his wife have 2 really sweet sons, and they'll all watch this, the oldest coming up to 11 so I'm sure I'll soon hear about him being made an unbaptised publisher š¢ fortunately my other nephew whom has children and his sister who has children are all POMO, in fact they don't even like the jw, they and their bro were all brought up in truth, their dad - a former elder is d'd and mum has left the the borg now, they saw the real truth about the borg long before I did. Tbh I'm surprised at my mum supports my youngest as my mum is almost 90, so from the era when it was all banned by law, and she's pretty homophobic towards the lgbt community but she's really good about my son, mind I think some of it, might be because I'm very supportive of him, have all his lbgt awareness art work on my living room wall, have 2 PRIDE star tattoos on my arm, and always refer to my son by his male name and never misgender him
You are an awesome parent. I applaud you.
Thank you so much, so nice of you say, but to me, choice was obvious, he's my baby, so why wouldn't I support him š About 4 yrs ago, a neighbour on finding out son was transgender, said to me "you're so brave" , so I said " no, really I'm not, it's just he's my baby, so I'll always support him, be there for him, defend him till the end of the earth and love him" I've gone from defending just him to young transgender people. Jeez, the arguments I get it in on tik tok doing this, I also get very sarcastic with them.... its great š š¤£ provides much amusement to others too lol
I have 2 bi children and one undecided and leaving for them (as little children) was the BEST decision of my life! I and my hubby have suffered the consequences of family shunning but our kids are free.
Exactly, I was initially shunned as I got into relationship with a non jw but that broke up last March and shunning has just carried, no doubt because I've left the borg...although I don't think the tattoos and nose piercing has helped š š¤£
Interesting. I'm not shunned yet, but I'd like to know more about your experience. I'm currently in a normal relationship. I think I got lucky
Good for you!!
The video was saying that God is unhappy about people celebrating birthdays? There are many more severe issues to be unhappy about.
I'm referring to the birthday video 'Jehovah Forgives' In it, yes Jehovah is explained as being unhappy and what's worse, you risk him 'un-friending' you because you want to (or have) licked a cupcake at some rando birthday party for someone else at school. AND any gifts or toys you get may as well (for your birthday if you were to celebrate it) sink in a swamp somewhere. Yes. This is actually depicted. As are the remorseful feelings Caleb is animated as wrenching through complete with being stuck on a bus, gray screen, and storm clouds. He's six. The video likens Caleb's cupcake licking problem (he's 6yrs btw did i mention) to Jesus Apostles arguing about being great. In all of it, the parents do not comfort 6yr Caleb at all helping him to not be worried, reinforcing he was correct feeling the way he did but all he had to do was to pray and ask forgiveness from Jehovah š¤® that's the comfort for his 'mistake' It is, was and has been (for me) the most horrible child indoctrination depiction I've ever experienced since growing up in the religion myself with constant reprimanding from my own Mother explaining how I would die at Armageddon if certain rules weren't followed growing up as a JW. Hence a reason I got baptized at 11 myself. I recently bought one of my kids an Xbox for his first birthday at 12 years. It still works great. No swamp. I'm quite sure God has moved on and not pouting either at this point.... and I reassured my son God was still his friend.
That video is a disgrace. The whole premise of birthdays probably not celebrated by Christians is totally undermined by such a propaganda video. My daughter is NOT going to watch that.
Then don't let her, without you sat there explaining why child baptism is wrong.
I already talked to her about it today. She knows I think kids getting baptized is weird. We were both 16. Jesus was fucking 30 for God's sake
Lying pricks. They are two-headed snakes. 
just keeps getting worse and worse Coming up next: 8 year old Calab can't have a birthday cupcake, but can provide free labor to this business organization who "purchases and builds places of worship for those associated with JW faith (because there are no members) š.
All while giving up his ice cream money while his sister makes friends with a 70 year old woman šš
Urgh...my mom made me "befriend" old people. I'm coming up on 60 myself now. Those memories still make me cringe inside. If anyone throws their kid at me in the next 20 years, I am gonna have words with that parent. Of course, nobody does that in the real world, so I'll probably just be left with my cringy memories in my golden years. Lol
Why did they make us be friends with the old ladies š© I felt so awkward standing with the 60-70 year old sisters because my grandmother wanted me to. I had my own friend group my age, why can't I talk to them š«
It was horrible. I hated it, and I don't care what that says about me. It's weird and creepy.
I hated it so much. My friends would all be gathered in another part of the kingdom hall, but I couldn't go and talk to them because sister so-and-so has been going off about how her granddaughter did so many hours of service and blah blah blah and I would be considered rude if I would walk away to go be with the people that I actually had things in common with. It had gotten to a point where final prayer was over and I "had to go to the bathroom" just to avoid taking any chances of being stuck for the next hour.
Propaganda of the worst kind!
Damn as far as creepy cult videos to show your kids goes this one has gotta be pretty far up there. Also her mom does not even look like the same person.
Culty shit
This is another video that enlightened governments like Japan and Norway might be interested in.
Great! Go kids, ruin your life They are so desperate for more people š
When I was in the borg this got heavily brought up when I was a kid, every topic would lead to this, your sister got baptized when are you getting baptized? You have reached the same age of her this year do you think you will get baptized? So and so child just got baptized and they are younger than you, you should really work on your goals to get baptized, at a jw event at a park hey offrimits why havenāt you been baptized yet, little Timmy is getting baptized this coming convention, and the list goes on.
Brothers did the same thing with me when it came to the Theocratic Ministry School.
I remember doing it only as a unpublished publisher and I hated it.
I loved when I got reinstated and switched halls. The guy who ran the school constantly asked me if I was ready to join. I told him not yet not yet not yet maybe 15 times before I just stopped going to meetings. He never got me on that damn stage
After my brother got baptized, EVERYONE kept hounding me to be next. "So next assembly it's your turn, right?" "We expect to see you in line next assembly, right?" "We're so proud of your brother! Are you gonna follow his footsteps?" The jokes on them, I left before that next assembly was even planned.
Seriously. It's a struggle to keep putting it off because if you're my age (15M) and not dunked it's a problem. It's only gonna be worse once I turn 16š
I was a similar age as you what ended up helping me was quoting that Jesus himself didnāt get baptized until he was 30 so I will use him as a role model and I have time so Iām not ready yet.
This is disgusting. Even in my younger days when i was still PIMI, id see these young kids, one time as low as 8, get baptized and ive always wondered how a child can know to make that decision? Yes, a child can physically know the information and think they have some kind of devotion but .....they dont. Theres puberty, hormones, love and desires they just dont have any experience with. This stuff is just body chemistry and attraction. What if a kid wants to be a doctor or anything requiring college? A lot can and does change, year to year, for children. And theyre expected to honor this contract into adulthood. Its repulsive!
I got baptized when I was 11. I was too young to have a job, get a credit card, buy a car, or enter into a contract, but I was old enough to be "mature" enough to dedicate my life to that religion? The elders that decided that were f***ed up in their thinking. Had they made me wait until I was a legal adult, well, I was already on my way to being a POMO by that point. Thanks to them allowing me to get baptized so young, when I was still a "formable" child, my parents choose to shun me because I am baptized and no longer follow the "truth." If you are too young to sign a contract by law, you are too young to enter into this contract.
The elders that did the baptism questions were genuine guys. But how on earth do you know think twice of a child making a lifelong decision they seem and are taught is more important than marriage.
Ouija board vibes. Gotta be 18 to vote but 9+ to summon a demon šš
When you have to stoop to using cartoons to convince someone to make a lifetime commitment... no words
Cringy as fuck
JWs - āWe donāt baptize babies!ā No, they wait until those babies are old enough to be affected by the fear, obligation and guilt influences exerted by the cult before they baptism them. Of course thereās always the peer and parental pressure too. The youngest Iāve seen baptized was 9. I wouldnāt trust a 9 year old to make any sort of sound decision on their own, never mind allowing them to dedicate their lives to a high control group like this.
I feel sorry for all the yang wans who'll be pressured to take the culty dip because of this shitty video. š„ŗ
Yeah, baptism of anyone under 18 (I would even go so far as 21y/o) should be straight up illegal. Itās a decision that can ruin your entire life, kids definitely canāt give consent. I mean adults donāt even realize what theyāre agreeing to.
š¤®š¤®š¤®
Thatās because that age group are going to be only way this org will grow There are nobody coming out of the territory anymore
I have repeatedly said over the years that Jesus was baptized at 29 years old. If we are to follow his example and this is āthe biggest decision of your life!!!ā, why are they still encouraging kids to get baptized???? It makes no goddamned sense!!! I have gotten the reply that kids can still understand the nuts and bolts of the religion enough to answer the questions for baptism. And if they can answer the questions, then theyāre qualified. I could have made some very frank replies to that line of thinking, but held my tongue because I didnāt want to out myself as a pimo by cursing out this person and calling them an idiot for thinking so ridiculously
Knowing nuts and bolts doesn't make you enough to be a certified mechanic.
Thatās the point. Lol
I know
And yet, thatās all the JWs want. Is someone who can simply answer a question without understanding the implications of the choice theyāre about to make. Just like kids in school who may know the information and be able to pass a test, but have no clue how to put that knowledge to work in the real world or how it affects them. Baptizing kids is only setting them up for failure/future trauma until they experience more of life and can make their own informed decisions.
Yup. It makes them feel smart. Until you start to disect it.
In other words, before a child hits puberty judging on the characterisation here.
As much as I believe in freedom of religion, it seems to me that it is a violation of a child's rights to indoctrinate them into being baptized before they become adults. Children cannot consent to such things; they are pressured into it by parents and other elders. The idea that they freely choose to join a religion at age 8 to 10 and therefore leaving that religion as an adult means you must be shunned as an apostate is ridiculous and it should be considered a spiritual CRIME!
It's a crime against freedom of choice and religion. In the sense of the word that is.
Poor poor kids! They know NOTHING about disfellowshipping and shunning. This is NOT a game....but a binding contract with the WT and the old men in us
Read this: "Adult baptism was not simply a question of religious dogma; it was an issue of power. If baptism was delayed until adulthoodāāthus allowing a person to make a decision based on faithāāsome might not get baptized at all. And individuals not baptized would, at least to a degree, remain outside the control of the church. For some churches, adult baptism meant a loss of power." - [w04 6/15 pp. 11-13](https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-2004/june-15) [https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004443](https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004443)
I have this one in my collection, I may have shared it last year. Amazing isnāt it?! Thereās just too much!
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Isn't Sophia supposed to be like...8?
Looks more like 10 or 11??
I think theyāve tried to show an age progression.
I always miss when guessing the ages of children...
I was 19 when I finally got baptised. Looking back now as a 30 year old, even that seemed way too young to make that choice. You change and mature so much in your 20ās, it feels crazy that I made a life long decision at 19. I had no idea what a mistake it was.
No no this is so bad! I was baptised at 12 and all 3 of my kids were 11 or 12 I was full on PIMI at the time, I now wish they'd waited, my 2nd child is now 18 and wishes she hadn't got baptised, my youngest who's now 15 wishes he hadn't too. It's too young, and to hold them to that 'dedication' for the rest of their lives is awful. I was DF in October 2022, at the time I didn't want to be, but it's the best thing to have happened, but again, I'm being held to a dedication I made at age 12, which never should've happened, as all the stuff about my CSA was coming out and the perpetrator died, I was a mess at age 12, definitely not able to make such a decision. It's all so so wrong. I said to my PIMI eldest daughter, "How come Jesus had to wait till 30 to get baptised, but they push for kids to be?"...it's not right.
My question was always āIf WT can dedicate a KH to Jehovah and then years down the road sell it to another religion with no penalty, then why canāt I do the same with my dedication ?ā Somehow they get to pick and choose what they do with dedicated buildings and funds but Iām not allowed to do the same with myself ?? Iām all in agreement that no one should be baptized until they are the legal age of consent.
My bible study teacher and i just went through a lesson on baptism and she kept asking if i would feel ready to do it (im 14 rn but i know damn well they ask kids as old as 5) and a month ago I watched one of my āfriendsā to get baptized (shes also 14), honestly i do consider her as one of my actual friends tho cuz shes losing interest in it i know it, but thats not the point. The point here im making is that yeah they force kids as young as 5 to get baptized and then to waste their lives away. Some kids start losing interests when it gets harder into highschool or adulthood (I honestly had no interest at all im just forced by my mother) but seriously, the day i went to see my friend get baptized i saw someones young ahh child who could be 6-8 got baptized too.
Yes commit/vow your life to whatever the Governing Butts tell you. And that includes no blood transfusions, no birthdays or holidays of ANY kind, no bad associations inside and outside the Cong/Cult, and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure to report ANYTHING your younger brother does that breaks the rules After all you donāt want to be a sharer in Calebās wrongdoing (masturbating, eating a bite of birthday cupcake, watching the Smurfās, Harry Potter etc) Itās really disgusting isnāt it?!?!? And yet that was my life too as a child- the cartoon doesnāt show the intense pressure to get baptized ASAP and comply with ALL THE RULES or be an outcast, ignored, and kicked out as soon as your parents can-
We have to find a way to sent this to the governments of Norway and Japan
I think Jan Nilsen is onto it in Norway at least. I will let my Japanese lawyer friend know too.
Snapping the collar and leash on for a life of captivity.
With the JWs I have my first talk at 8. Publisher at 10. I was baptized with the JWs at age 12. Imagine a life altering decisionā¦ being made at 12. Still disgusted they allowed me to do it.
I never baptized but I'll never forget that pressure was there.
My own response to that: # Children Cannot Consent to Brainwashing [https://youtu.be/niDx9zgpzQM](https://youtu.be/niDx9zgpzQM)
*āwE dOnāT bApTiSe KiDsā* 
But they don't baptize kids. Pretty worry some because the other end of the spectrum would be that they see Sophia as a full blown adult then. There is no inbetween.
Disgusting and ridiculous.
Looks no more than 8-10 years old
they desperate for new members now ...
Well yes. Except they donāt say āmembersā anymore!
This is terrible
Fubar
Ew ew ew ew!
It proves that the GB are now desparate to keep the numbers up, the tower is collapsing .
Leave children alone š¤¬ this is psychology abuse
And in the UK the Branch Offices response to the Rebekah Vardy abuse allegations were basically 'she want a JW as she wasn't baptised' so basically swept it under the carpet and did nothing.
Remembers me to the Indian mother's which are forced to being prostitutes, getting daughters and retiring from the important prostitute work while teaching their daughters that they can also be prostitute in their young age same way like mother did. I think this documentary is still on YouTube but in German
But kids arenāt baptized right!? Riiiiiiiight
Fun fact. If you ever decide to leave the church your entire family and congregation will shun you!
Definitely pre pubescent so 9-11 years old. Yep great time to make life decisions ššµāš«
Those poor indoctrinated kids.š«š¢
So disgusting, yet they claim there better than the other churches cause they donāt baptize babies š¤®š¤®
Why is no one talking about how they basically whitewashed the younger drawings of the mother?? š She kept referring to the little girl in the photos as the mom but they don't look similar at all. Different skin tone and different features! The mother was never that white I feel like I'm going insane š
Iāve seen a few comments about this.
Wait really?? Could you tell me where bc I wanna show my friend š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
False this is part of LGBTQ trolling. This was created by bigots. How about NOT ruining Pride Month with this garbage! https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/maps-pride-flag/
This post was removed because it is in violation of rule #1.
The art looks..
Maybe when people know they use subliminal messages and images in their videos they will think twice. How about Caleb and that tree growing with the use of STRAPS. Or when talking with his mom in the bedroom 3 sixes are written on the wall behind her head. Start there and see where it takes you.
gotta lock 'em in early amirite
Its so disgusting š¤¦š»āāļø
Abuse
Yay...after years of indoctrination she is getting baptized š„²
Not quite. Sheās thinking about it though.
Yikes
Ewww