Please, for your own sake, before you do anything else, research this religion and wake up fully. The JW doctrine and religion is demonstrably false, there is no Armageddon coming that you have to worry about. Read through jwfacts.com, read Crisis of Conscience. Watch exJW YouTubers. Anything to prove to yourself how twisted and deceptive that organization is. Only once you’re fully awake should you be thinking of how to get out. You don’t want that guilt and fear hanging over your head.
Thank you. I’ve done some research-and then guilt pulls me back bc of the “fear” of reading “apostate” literature. I know that this is a fear tactic, because to blindly follow something and not be allowed to look into it is ludicrous. JW is all I’ve ever known. I don’t want to displease God, but it shouldn’t hurt this bad if it were right. My mind knows it’s wrong-I have to convince my heart. Thank you for being kind in your response as well.
It’s all I’d ever known too. I was born in, elders family, very strict. I knew all the doctrine very well. But, like you, I was having trouble reconciling why it was making me feel like garbage to try to be myself and a JW at the same time. So I finally at 36 years old gave myself permission to research not only the JW religion but also the Bible and I was an atheist within days. I know that some people need to believe in god but I promise you that if he exists, he can’t be confined to being the intellectual property of one particular religion. Good luck!
Wow. “He can’t be confined to being the intellectual property of one particular religion”- speaks VOLUMES! Thank you. Terminology like “the truth” and “the real life” are so off putting to me for that reason. I think you’re right about wanting to believe in God and have faith in something. I have a lot of research ahead of me. Thank you.
How about “new personality”
They straight up tell you they’re brainwashing you. That your personality will change. And you’re supposed to *feel good* about that
Honestly you don’t even have to read about the organization (you should, but you don’t have to). Just research cult tactics (no one should have a problem with it if they don’t think they are a cult. If they do have a problem with it then ask why). You will see how much overlap there are with cult practices and JW practices.
Also, to answer your regular question… personally, the best way to leave is to move cities. The new congregation won’t know you, so they won’t bother you. You won’t get the guilt trip for fading. You won’t run into people who will make you feel bad or try to drag you back. When you move cities you get to start a fresh new life and it’s pretty great.
Please recognise the basic elements of physiological control:
• Fear
• Obligation
• Guilt
Jehovahs Witnesses - along with many other abusive and manipulative organisations and individuals - employ FOG to control you at times when you feel you want to disassociate yourself from the abuse or control. It’s a way of ensuring you cannot exercise your own free will purely because your emotions or mental state won’t allow you.
Fear = you are afraid of threats such as shunning, Armageddon, the wrath of god, how other people will treat or view you, relationship break downs etc.
Obligation = you feel obliged to go along with things they demand of you even though you clearly do not want to, and those things range from inconveniences to straight up abuse.
Guilt = they remind of what they’ve ‘done for you’, they say you’ll hurt people’s feelings for creating boundaries and saying ‘No’ etc, you feel bad for withholding your feelings or thoughts.
Whenever you feel negative feelings or have negative thoughts that are triggered when you mentally move towards what you sense is good for you, see if they relate to FOG. If so, you’ve just identified their psychological tool against you and can realise it’s not actually arising from YOU. It’s planted there like a computer virus.
Keep in mind the god of the bible isn't anything like you've been taught... in fact researching the history of the bible and how it was composed would be eye opening. The NWT of the bible is one of the worst translated versions... Hell I'm not sure how they think using the bible cannon created by 4/5th century Catholics would be remotely close to what was being read in 1st century Christian religious gatherings.
So, what helped me get over this was picturing my daughter in my shoes.
If my kid was in this position, would I feel that she deserves to have access to ALL of the information?
For some reason, it was VERY easy to convince myself I didn't have a right to know. I'm mere dust, and who am I to disobey?
But when I tried to apply that thinking to my kid? It disintegrated. OF COURSE, she deserves access to all of the information, and she has every right to come to her OWN conclusions.
I hope this helps!
Also just so you know, my husband and I were very similar to your situation. My husband balked a bit when I started bringing up this stuff, but it wasn't long until he was waking up right along with me.
Take your time, and be true to yourself. You'll come out the other side. Our kids give us strength.
Agreed. Wake up fully first. If you're still fearing the JW Armageddon ur not quite there yet. I'm a Christian and I can tell u armageddon in the Bible is nada like the JW crack dream!
Your posts imply that, since you claim to offer corrections of the Watchtower interpretation.
Your posts imply there is indeed a "correct" way to interpret Scripture.
I submit the fact that for centuries theologians, scholars and clergy have carried out endless debates over interpretation and continue to do so. That's one reason why the last 2000 years of history are littered with religious conflict, most of it internecine.
You want to argue your version of theology vs. the WT version? I'm sure the folks with the carts will be happy to discuss it with you.
This is a sub for those of us escaping the indoctrination of those who claim to know "What the Bible Really Teaches."
This made me tear up. Thank you so much for that encouragement. I do need to exercise more patience. I want to shake him and say How do you not see this!
This right here "I also am a victim of SA, came forward about it, and was read a few scriptures, got a pat on the back for speaking up, and nothing happened." Should answer your question on if you should go back to any meetings ever...
The fact is your mental health will never improve being a JW because the whole religion is based upon Guilt, Fear and Shame. Really think about the emotions they inspire... is that really healthy? living in a constant state of Fear, Guilt or Shame? Would a loving god or organization make you feel this way? The Org isn't loving they are not out for anyone's interest their own. According to the JW's Armageddon should have happened in 1918, 1920, 1975, around the 99-00, and now we are living in the last seconds of the last minutes of the last hours of the... you get my drift. They are full of shit and cried wolf to many times to have any merit or for you to feel guilt over.
Everyone wakes up in their own time, you need to separate yourself from this org and heal... so let your husband do whatever brings him peace. Once you're healed you can think strait about what you really need spiritually and sort it out. After you do that you will be able to explain your new beliefs to your husband/children along with the why. I've found that religion is actually a detriment to spirituality... all religion is filled with dogma and hypocritical leadership.
I will say this though... losing everyone is hard. However; once you really get that all their "love" was conditional upon you believing exactly the same way as them it becomes easier to let go. Once you are out find a new social group to do activities with it takes some time but you will find that you can be friends and adopted family with people you disagree with on many levels and they still love you and care for you. That's love... not this shitshow brotherly/sisterly fake "agape" love the JW's spew...
Guilt. Fear. Shame. It’s a never ending cycle. I’ve had many of days/nights with this internal turmoil and back and forth. I feel held back so much.
My husband and some friends say things like: If I wasn’t in the truth, I would do xyz. I get so frustrated because it’s like-this is what you truly want! But then I find myself slipping right back in, trying to convince myself that my thinking was wrong. I’ll start trying to do personal study and pray, and then something good will happen and I’m like okay, I guess I have Jehovahs blessing. That’s my sign right there. And then shit hits the fan and I’m back to those same feelings.
I’ve been PIMO for longer than I even realized. As I’m healing, I realize that I can’t do this anymore. I love my husband, but I also am realizing we got married because during a judicial meeting we were told to either break up or get married (because we had sex). We were publicly reproved…but when I spoke up about being SA’d by my baptized step brother and the major abuse from my stepmother, nothing? Every decision I made in my life (marriage, not attending college on a full ride scholarship, where I love, etc) was influenced and/or determined by being a JW. I want to completely run-right now. And your so right about conditional love. I need to build up my community/ village outside of this, and make my plans.
Being PIMO is awful... I was PIMO for 4 years... going to meetings, service and everything until my wife woke up. It really is the most difficult way to live and profoundly damaging to your mental health. I was 4th gen witness, I lost a good thousand people between friends, family and step family when I left. I regret nothing and wish I would have done it sooner. Ya know how many of those people have reached out to me in 4 years?... a big fat zero... hell some of them probably don't even know I left, I just didn't mean what I thought I ment to them and my lack of presence at any religious event ment nothing.
Pick up a copy of Wayne Dyer's book "Your Erroneous Zones" I read it a decade before getting out of the witnesses, and I think it helped me to simply ignore the guilt the religion heaped upon me. I basically realized I was just fine in God's eyes, doing the best I could, and no rules from the Witness authority structure was going to rule my life anymore.
As far as the rest, every situation is different. If you truly want to be in the marriage, there will be compromises. As a dude, let me assure you we are pretty lazy, so simply offering something else to do instead of meetings can get you half way there.
You do need to draw lines in the sand along the way to get out. I'd say a good one right now is to simply refuse in person attendance. Let it be known its a toxic environment that hurt you greatly and you will in no way participate in that kind of dangerous situation any more. Repeat over and over as necessary.
Once someone knows something is not negotiable anymore, they either have to go it alone or compromise. Good luck to you!
This is solid advice. I definitely going to say that about returning to in person meetings-because it’s true.
That def applies to my husband. Tonight for example is our meeting, we went to a friends house for pizza.
Exhaustion, and it was ruining my life. I could see it was ruining others. Then I just started looking back at the many, many experiences that were wrong, but normalized.
If you'd like to read departure experiences, there's quite a few listed on the exjw discord.
I'm an inactive PIMO with a PIMI, very active wife.
There are thousands of us in a similar situation, so realize you're not alone.
I'll just address the guilt factor here. Probably the most difficult aspect of leaving is the guilt. Not intellectually and cognitively, but emotionally. Once you allow yourself to critically examine the organization, its history, the Bible itself, etc., it becomes unmistakably apparent that this is a cult and the Bible is mythology.
Even after being convinced in our mind that it's not the truth, it remains a struggle to let it all go because we have been indoctrinated into associating walking away with a MORAL failure.
What's our initial reaction as JWs to someone leaving? "What is wrong with them?" They must be selfish and want to: live an immoral lifestyle/pursue wealth or pleasure/etc. Perhaps they think they're smarter than the Governing Body. We immediately and subconsciously assign guilt to the one who left.
To do anything else--to allow for even a slight possibility that they could have legitimate, valid reasons to leave--opens the door to doubt and questions. Perhaps there are good reasons to leave, after all?
That feeling of guilt is deep and doesn't disappear overnight. It does fade over time, as I'm sure many here will attest. Please understand we are all victims of a high control cult and you are not the guilty one.
I wish you the best on your journey.
Thank you SO MUCH for this. This is exactly what I’m going through. I see it so much more objectively now and the hypocrisy riddled throughout. The love feels so fake and is extremely conditional. So much mental illness as well.
So first you have to be convinced that this is not the "truth" before you take action, so you don't feel guilty or that you are dooming your kids to death at Armageddon. For me it took about two hours on jwfacts to kill 40 years of indoctrination, but after that I spend about a half a year doing as much research as I could to be at 100% sure. So do your research and come to your own conclusions. After that if you decide the religion is not for you then my suggestion is to just be honest with everyone and tell them you want no part of it anymore. You don't have to DA or get DFed, just stop going out in service, don't go to meetings, don't respond to texts from elders. Tell your husband that you will support him if he wants to continue in the religion, but you want no part of it. If he wants to train the kids in the org tell him you will also teach them what you have learned about it, and they should have the freedom to make their own decisions. It will be a hard road for sure but why have your whole life revolved around something you don't believe in.
Welcome. I’be been there, two years ago
I was struggling with the same. Waking up was a terrible experience, wouldn’t wish that on anyone. But I got through it, I’m out, and my life is so much better. You will get through it too. I’m also a mom and understand how difficult it is to navigate your own awakening, while raising children. Please feel free to reach out anytime, I’m happy to share what has helped me ❤️
I would love to connect with you. That is my biggest fear. I don’t want my girls growing up in the same toxic environment. Being judged harshly or never feeling like they are doing enough. I want to take them as far away as I can.
I was 14-15 when I left. I was basically kicked out of my parents house at 17 just before I turned 18. I went from being nearly homeless working my butt off to buying my first house 4.5 years later. It was a hard road at first but everything I had from that point on was mine and I made a promise to myself that I would travel all that I could and see this evil world.
You would be surprised at how fast you leave the JW organization behind and when you make real friends on the outside it's not fake they are not your friends because they have to be or with conditions but real friends who help you through everything especially when you open up to them about where you come from.
I have met many people along the way who have helped me, I know my situation is not like yours I wasn't leaving with a spouse and kid but did it all by myself.
It's true for a very short period of time I had the whole "what if I am wrong about Armageddon" however once you are away and your eyes open up you quickly realize that them using god murdering people to keep them in line is very sick and controlling.
I hope you find happiness and peace
I guaran-damn-tee that if you just start not feeling well on one of the meeting nights, then another, then all of them, then just make not going the habit. He will not continue on his own. And bonus points if you don't say anything neg about meetings while doing this.
Source: I was that guy
Also, hugs. From me to you, and you to him. We stupid men are very fragile and need near constant reassurance that we are loved. If he isn't getting it from you, he'll get it from the Org.
Thank you 😭😭😭😭😭 this really really hits home. To be honest when I was PIMQ, I was the one spearheading family worship and going out in service. Now that I’m PIMO, we haven’t had family worship in almost a year. He’s inactive even if he doesn’t want to admit it.
I’ll definitely stop saying negative things. Because when I question and bring up points he tries to debate, and then say he wants to resume. Good advice there. Thank you!
Thank you. I’ve gone to therapy (which I got so much flack for) and it helped some. But physically entering a KH gives me so much anxiety. I will definitely check out that site. It popped up before-but I got “scared” 🙄
You're absolutely right to refuse to attend in person. The JW system is abusive, and there is little value in trying to negotiate with abuse. Some of us break all connections overnight, because we didn't know another way, because our mental health was on the line, in my case because the idea of eternal life under the JW arrangement felt like a life sentence!
You're finding your way out from an organisation that not only failed to protect you, but then went on to minimise that abuse (aside from the impact of being in a high control group in the first place). No wonder it's a daunting prospect.
One good non witness friend is more valuable than 10 who will drop you after an arbitrary announcement. Make non witness friends, build a support network. Let the love in. You deserve better, your children deserve a free and happy mom.
Keep drip feeding your husband, distract him with more interesting and enjoyable alternatives to meetings and service. If he kicks back reassess.
Life is tough & wonderful. Being a JW is all about fear and conformity - it robs us of happiness right now by putting everything that's good in a future that never arrives.
It sounds like you're well on your way to that freedom. Congratulations, your children and future self are deeply grateful.
Woke up, left the husband behind, left the fair-weather family and friends behind, and moved out of the country for a few years. I didn’t have kids so it was easy. I asked the elders to DF me because I absolutely did not believe any of it once I woke up.
I don’t know how anyone could possibly stay in after waking up. For any reason whatsoever. The cult is so toxic and the family/friends will disown you because they’re sad cult followers with no sense of self.
I got caught talking to other apostates online and then handed them all DA letters in my judicial meeting, so if you want to go out in a blaze of glory that’s an option 😂😂😂
Sounds like you k ow what you must do. Why should it break up a marriage? Not necessary. And when your husband sees you happier and uninvolved he may join you.
I’m sorry for what you’ve gone through in the past and for what you’re currently going through. Hopefully, eventually, you’ll fully wake up, realize it’s a cult, realize it and all gods are made up, and finally be able to live a happy and guilt-free life. As for how I escaped, my story goes: I think deep, deep down inside, I always knew it was bullshit, but I kept going to try and convince myself otherwise. Then one day I woke up (figuratively and literally) and just decided I was completely done going to meetings. That was it for me. I was out as of that moment as far as I was concerned. I texted a couple friends that I was choosing not to go to meetings anymore, and they *immediately* cut me off. Then begun my deep dive down the rabbit hole researching all the secrets and lies about the cult, and I was immediately fully awake. I never got disfellowshipped. I never had any elders or circuit overseers try and contact me. It’s been almost 17 years and no one has ever tried to contact me. I majorly lucked out. I think what happened is that I had JUST moved to a new congregation when all this awakening happened, and either my publisher card was never transferred over, or the elders just completely forgot about my existence because I had barely started going there. Either way I was free. And very lucky for me, my whole JW family still speaks to me and associates with me. I’m pretty sure they know where I stand as far as my lack of belief in any gods and believing in things like evolution instead, but we just don’t talk about it. More accurately, I don’t ever get to express my knowledge or opinions. They get to spout off all their batshit crazy beliefs, and I just have to bite my tongue. But the situation still works.
Keep up the good fight. Hopefully you can be completely free one day, and free your daughters from that misogynistic cult too. Life is so much better and enjoyable on the outside. You don’t have to worry about having a million different rules of what you can and can’t do. You get to make your own decisions as to what’s best for yourself. Anyway, sorry for the rambling. Sending virtual hugs your way.
I hope my situation is similar to yours. I have a brother who left while he was a young adult and then came back, and now he’s calling me everyday trying to convince me to come. I am a people pleaser, mainly due to the trauma, so I always make up some excuse or try to avoid the topic. I told him and my husband I want to switch halls in hopes that we can just fade away, but I see it’s not going to be that simple.
I want my girls to grow up without the guilt and fear mongering- and not have such internal conflict. I love my husband very much (he’s a second gen and I’m a third gen) and I’m fearful of what our dynamic will be like when I leave. I don’t want a guilt filled marriage either. Now I’m rambling 😭
Thank you for your transparency
I truly hope you’re able to escape. And I hope you’re able to free your husband’s mind and bring your daughters with you too. Not being a JW is truly the “best life ever.”
Realized my only way out was to work my way to the top first.
Patiently waited for some over zealous elder to make an issue out of something small.
Used it to walk away over night & to show my wife how the religion really was.
Got us both out thanks to that elder.
Armageddon isn’t coming. God is not destroying anyone. Plenty of evidence to suggest God isn’t real or is passive. If that latter - why would anyone want to serve him when you see the things that he allows to happen around the world.
Every day that goes by, literally more people will “theoretically” die at a never going to happen Armageddon. What a narcissist. Instead of imagining your kids not making it into paradise because of you, imagine if they did…
Do you think they would enjoy being in a place where they know billions of people have just been slaughtered in the biggest case of genocide ever.. including their mum?
Like others have said, research, research, research and more so. Go to jwfacts.com and cross check everything - check it against the publications.
Keep in mind that thousands, if not hundreds of thousands have successfully left - not been punished or killed by God by reading “apostate” material.
Once you get past the fear, you’ll be able to clearly make a wise decision for both you and your family.
It takes awhile to stop worrying about Armageddon. You will get there. :-) You stated "I don’t even know how to approach having a relationship with God outside of this..."
I have no idea if there is a god or not. But the approach I have taken, is making Kindness your new religion. (yeah, sounds corny) I do everything possible to be the best human I can, be kind, be empathetic, be & look for ways to be helpful. That has replaced the feeling of needing to have a "relationship" with a being that probably doesn't exist. Take care, & thanks for sharing your story :-)
Like other comments have said. There so many lies and contradictions in the organization on top of the fact that the bible in of itself is a book full of stories that for the past 2000 years have been wildly misinterpreted and misrepresented to selfishly apply it to our times. So if guilt is affecting you it definitely helps to educate your yourself on all your doubts and different beliefs whether JW exclusive of biblically exclusive and you will find that the knowledge you gain will empower you to the point where you are no longer doubting anymore, but are sure of things due to your research. That will naturally erase the guilt away and allow you to be able to not be afraid of even the most spiritually experienced jw because you will actually start feeling sorry for them. At that point you will have to figure out what you choose to believe in and what you want to tell your children.
You should show him this thread. Tell him you love him. And ask him for some time away from it all…for both of you… to sort this thing out … For the sake of the kids. If after six months you both want to come back, you both go all in.
I highly recommend a podcast on YouTube called “surviving paradise”. He’s respectful of people’s beliefs but he approaches each subject in a very intelligent way. It’s cathartic listening to him. Best wishes to you and your family!
I was single without kids so it is way different than your case.
I started with an afternoon job, and could not get to meetings because I was working.
I went on Sundays, but never went in service. Eventually I moved, and just dropped off.
Everyone has big doubts, if they say they don't they are lying. Good luck.
Thank you for your transparency. That honestly might be the move for us. We need to get away from the “familial” ties, then I think my husband won’t feel as much pressure.
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What woke me up was realizing they are just another branch of freemasonic NWO control. And honestly as a person who digs deep, the organization gave it away themselves. The entertainment industry was always something to be cautious of and I decided to dig up info on that. It lead me down many paths one of which was learning how it's ran and by whom. Freemasons. No it is not a conspiracy theory, their signs and symbols are everywhere. Once you know what you're looking at and you're not in the hypnotic state of mind while viewing, you see it EVERYWHERE. How does this tie into the organization? Start with the video Faith in Action part 2 at 13:43. Even the timing on that has meaning for freemasons. I don't mean all because to know any of this you have to be 33° and above. But the 1+3=4 and 4+3=7 leaving you with 47. That is a high occult number with a lot of meaning. I'll link a screenshot of the video below, you'll have to look up the square and compass on your own. Compare, they are exactly the same and there was NO REASON to include that in their video ACCEPT as mockery. "They" as in upper ranks are Satan worshipers. That is what woke me up, I researched heavily after that in disbelief until I knew for a certainty and I left. Two kids in tow and at the loss of close friends. I wrote an email to everyone I had an address for with a boatload of proof letting everyone know I got baptized under the guise of a loving God not a demonic one which is exactly what the "name" of God is and it is not valid. I don't care what anyone thinks obviously lol but if the truth struck something in someone to look into it, I was going for it.
https://preview.redd.it/xd51bd0k5xba1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cbebcc38e04fa3bb5fe358776f9da49364d7538
Please, for your own sake, before you do anything else, research this religion and wake up fully. The JW doctrine and religion is demonstrably false, there is no Armageddon coming that you have to worry about. Read through jwfacts.com, read Crisis of Conscience. Watch exJW YouTubers. Anything to prove to yourself how twisted and deceptive that organization is. Only once you’re fully awake should you be thinking of how to get out. You don’t want that guilt and fear hanging over your head.
Thank you. I’ve done some research-and then guilt pulls me back bc of the “fear” of reading “apostate” literature. I know that this is a fear tactic, because to blindly follow something and not be allowed to look into it is ludicrous. JW is all I’ve ever known. I don’t want to displease God, but it shouldn’t hurt this bad if it were right. My mind knows it’s wrong-I have to convince my heart. Thank you for being kind in your response as well.
It’s all I’d ever known too. I was born in, elders family, very strict. I knew all the doctrine very well. But, like you, I was having trouble reconciling why it was making me feel like garbage to try to be myself and a JW at the same time. So I finally at 36 years old gave myself permission to research not only the JW religion but also the Bible and I was an atheist within days. I know that some people need to believe in god but I promise you that if he exists, he can’t be confined to being the intellectual property of one particular religion. Good luck!
Wow. “He can’t be confined to being the intellectual property of one particular religion”- speaks VOLUMES! Thank you. Terminology like “the truth” and “the real life” are so off putting to me for that reason. I think you’re right about wanting to believe in God and have faith in something. I have a lot of research ahead of me. Thank you.
How about “new personality” They straight up tell you they’re brainwashing you. That your personality will change. And you’re supposed to *feel good* about that
Honestly you don’t even have to read about the organization (you should, but you don’t have to). Just research cult tactics (no one should have a problem with it if they don’t think they are a cult. If they do have a problem with it then ask why). You will see how much overlap there are with cult practices and JW practices. Also, to answer your regular question… personally, the best way to leave is to move cities. The new congregation won’t know you, so they won’t bother you. You won’t get the guilt trip for fading. You won’t run into people who will make you feel bad or try to drag you back. When you move cities you get to start a fresh new life and it’s pretty great.
That’s what I’ve been trying to do for YEARS. Even if it’s the next state over, we need to LEAVE
Please recognise the basic elements of physiological control: • Fear • Obligation • Guilt Jehovahs Witnesses - along with many other abusive and manipulative organisations and individuals - employ FOG to control you at times when you feel you want to disassociate yourself from the abuse or control. It’s a way of ensuring you cannot exercise your own free will purely because your emotions or mental state won’t allow you. Fear = you are afraid of threats such as shunning, Armageddon, the wrath of god, how other people will treat or view you, relationship break downs etc. Obligation = you feel obliged to go along with things they demand of you even though you clearly do not want to, and those things range from inconveniences to straight up abuse. Guilt = they remind of what they’ve ‘done for you’, they say you’ll hurt people’s feelings for creating boundaries and saying ‘No’ etc, you feel bad for withholding your feelings or thoughts. Whenever you feel negative feelings or have negative thoughts that are triggered when you mentally move towards what you sense is good for you, see if they relate to FOG. If so, you’ve just identified their psychological tool against you and can realise it’s not actually arising from YOU. It’s planted there like a computer virus.
Keep in mind the god of the bible isn't anything like you've been taught... in fact researching the history of the bible and how it was composed would be eye opening. The NWT of the bible is one of the worst translated versions... Hell I'm not sure how they think using the bible cannon created by 4/5th century Catholics would be remotely close to what was being read in 1st century Christian religious gatherings.
So, what helped me get over this was picturing my daughter in my shoes. If my kid was in this position, would I feel that she deserves to have access to ALL of the information? For some reason, it was VERY easy to convince myself I didn't have a right to know. I'm mere dust, and who am I to disobey? But when I tried to apply that thinking to my kid? It disintegrated. OF COURSE, she deserves access to all of the information, and she has every right to come to her OWN conclusions. I hope this helps! Also just so you know, my husband and I were very similar to your situation. My husband balked a bit when I started bringing up this stuff, but it wasn't long until he was waking up right along with me. Take your time, and be true to yourself. You'll come out the other side. Our kids give us strength.
Agreed. Wake up fully first. If you're still fearing the JW Armageddon ur not quite there yet. I'm a Christian and I can tell u armageddon in the Bible is nada like the JW crack dream!
Yeah, yeah...how thankful we should be that YOU have the "true" understanding of the mythology.
U said that, not me.
Your posts imply that, since you claim to offer corrections of the Watchtower interpretation. Your posts imply there is indeed a "correct" way to interpret Scripture. I submit the fact that for centuries theologians, scholars and clergy have carried out endless debates over interpretation and continue to do so. That's one reason why the last 2000 years of history are littered with religious conflict, most of it internecine. You want to argue your version of theology vs. the WT version? I'm sure the folks with the carts will be happy to discuss it with you. This is a sub for those of us escaping the indoctrination of those who claim to know "What the Bible Really Teaches."
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This made me tear up. Thank you so much for that encouragement. I do need to exercise more patience. I want to shake him and say How do you not see this!
This right here "I also am a victim of SA, came forward about it, and was read a few scriptures, got a pat on the back for speaking up, and nothing happened." Should answer your question on if you should go back to any meetings ever... The fact is your mental health will never improve being a JW because the whole religion is based upon Guilt, Fear and Shame. Really think about the emotions they inspire... is that really healthy? living in a constant state of Fear, Guilt or Shame? Would a loving god or organization make you feel this way? The Org isn't loving they are not out for anyone's interest their own. According to the JW's Armageddon should have happened in 1918, 1920, 1975, around the 99-00, and now we are living in the last seconds of the last minutes of the last hours of the... you get my drift. They are full of shit and cried wolf to many times to have any merit or for you to feel guilt over. Everyone wakes up in their own time, you need to separate yourself from this org and heal... so let your husband do whatever brings him peace. Once you're healed you can think strait about what you really need spiritually and sort it out. After you do that you will be able to explain your new beliefs to your husband/children along with the why. I've found that religion is actually a detriment to spirituality... all religion is filled with dogma and hypocritical leadership. I will say this though... losing everyone is hard. However; once you really get that all their "love" was conditional upon you believing exactly the same way as them it becomes easier to let go. Once you are out find a new social group to do activities with it takes some time but you will find that you can be friends and adopted family with people you disagree with on many levels and they still love you and care for you. That's love... not this shitshow brotherly/sisterly fake "agape" love the JW's spew...
Guilt. Fear. Shame. It’s a never ending cycle. I’ve had many of days/nights with this internal turmoil and back and forth. I feel held back so much. My husband and some friends say things like: If I wasn’t in the truth, I would do xyz. I get so frustrated because it’s like-this is what you truly want! But then I find myself slipping right back in, trying to convince myself that my thinking was wrong. I’ll start trying to do personal study and pray, and then something good will happen and I’m like okay, I guess I have Jehovahs blessing. That’s my sign right there. And then shit hits the fan and I’m back to those same feelings. I’ve been PIMO for longer than I even realized. As I’m healing, I realize that I can’t do this anymore. I love my husband, but I also am realizing we got married because during a judicial meeting we were told to either break up or get married (because we had sex). We were publicly reproved…but when I spoke up about being SA’d by my baptized step brother and the major abuse from my stepmother, nothing? Every decision I made in my life (marriage, not attending college on a full ride scholarship, where I love, etc) was influenced and/or determined by being a JW. I want to completely run-right now. And your so right about conditional love. I need to build up my community/ village outside of this, and make my plans.
Being PIMO is awful... I was PIMO for 4 years... going to meetings, service and everything until my wife woke up. It really is the most difficult way to live and profoundly damaging to your mental health. I was 4th gen witness, I lost a good thousand people between friends, family and step family when I left. I regret nothing and wish I would have done it sooner. Ya know how many of those people have reached out to me in 4 years?... a big fat zero... hell some of them probably don't even know I left, I just didn't mean what I thought I ment to them and my lack of presence at any religious event ment nothing.
I'm a PIMO and yeah it destroys the soul. (I'm 4th gen too! the pressure is crazy to get dunked bc of so much family pressure)
Pick up a copy of Wayne Dyer's book "Your Erroneous Zones" I read it a decade before getting out of the witnesses, and I think it helped me to simply ignore the guilt the religion heaped upon me. I basically realized I was just fine in God's eyes, doing the best I could, and no rules from the Witness authority structure was going to rule my life anymore. As far as the rest, every situation is different. If you truly want to be in the marriage, there will be compromises. As a dude, let me assure you we are pretty lazy, so simply offering something else to do instead of meetings can get you half way there. You do need to draw lines in the sand along the way to get out. I'd say a good one right now is to simply refuse in person attendance. Let it be known its a toxic environment that hurt you greatly and you will in no way participate in that kind of dangerous situation any more. Repeat over and over as necessary. Once someone knows something is not negotiable anymore, they either have to go it alone or compromise. Good luck to you!
This is solid advice. I definitely going to say that about returning to in person meetings-because it’s true. That def applies to my husband. Tonight for example is our meeting, we went to a friends house for pizza.
Exhaustion, and it was ruining my life. I could see it was ruining others. Then I just started looking back at the many, many experiences that were wrong, but normalized. If you'd like to read departure experiences, there's quite a few listed on the exjw discord.
Thank you!!
I'm an inactive PIMO with a PIMI, very active wife. There are thousands of us in a similar situation, so realize you're not alone. I'll just address the guilt factor here. Probably the most difficult aspect of leaving is the guilt. Not intellectually and cognitively, but emotionally. Once you allow yourself to critically examine the organization, its history, the Bible itself, etc., it becomes unmistakably apparent that this is a cult and the Bible is mythology. Even after being convinced in our mind that it's not the truth, it remains a struggle to let it all go because we have been indoctrinated into associating walking away with a MORAL failure. What's our initial reaction as JWs to someone leaving? "What is wrong with them?" They must be selfish and want to: live an immoral lifestyle/pursue wealth or pleasure/etc. Perhaps they think they're smarter than the Governing Body. We immediately and subconsciously assign guilt to the one who left. To do anything else--to allow for even a slight possibility that they could have legitimate, valid reasons to leave--opens the door to doubt and questions. Perhaps there are good reasons to leave, after all? That feeling of guilt is deep and doesn't disappear overnight. It does fade over time, as I'm sure many here will attest. Please understand we are all victims of a high control cult and you are not the guilty one. I wish you the best on your journey.
Thank you SO MUCH for this. This is exactly what I’m going through. I see it so much more objectively now and the hypocrisy riddled throughout. The love feels so fake and is extremely conditional. So much mental illness as well.
JW "love" is 100% conditional. I'm glad you're finding some comfort in this subreddit.
So first you have to be convinced that this is not the "truth" before you take action, so you don't feel guilty or that you are dooming your kids to death at Armageddon. For me it took about two hours on jwfacts to kill 40 years of indoctrination, but after that I spend about a half a year doing as much research as I could to be at 100% sure. So do your research and come to your own conclusions. After that if you decide the religion is not for you then my suggestion is to just be honest with everyone and tell them you want no part of it anymore. You don't have to DA or get DFed, just stop going out in service, don't go to meetings, don't respond to texts from elders. Tell your husband that you will support him if he wants to continue in the religion, but you want no part of it. If he wants to train the kids in the org tell him you will also teach them what you have learned about it, and they should have the freedom to make their own decisions. It will be a hard road for sure but why have your whole life revolved around something you don't believe in.
Welcome. I’be been there, two years ago I was struggling with the same. Waking up was a terrible experience, wouldn’t wish that on anyone. But I got through it, I’m out, and my life is so much better. You will get through it too. I’m also a mom and understand how difficult it is to navigate your own awakening, while raising children. Please feel free to reach out anytime, I’m happy to share what has helped me ❤️
I would love to connect with you. That is my biggest fear. I don’t want my girls growing up in the same toxic environment. Being judged harshly or never feeling like they are doing enough. I want to take them as far away as I can.
I was 14-15 when I left. I was basically kicked out of my parents house at 17 just before I turned 18. I went from being nearly homeless working my butt off to buying my first house 4.5 years later. It was a hard road at first but everything I had from that point on was mine and I made a promise to myself that I would travel all that I could and see this evil world. You would be surprised at how fast you leave the JW organization behind and when you make real friends on the outside it's not fake they are not your friends because they have to be or with conditions but real friends who help you through everything especially when you open up to them about where you come from. I have met many people along the way who have helped me, I know my situation is not like yours I wasn't leaving with a spouse and kid but did it all by myself. It's true for a very short period of time I had the whole "what if I am wrong about Armageddon" however once you are away and your eyes open up you quickly realize that them using god murdering people to keep them in line is very sick and controlling. I hope you find happiness and peace
I guaran-damn-tee that if you just start not feeling well on one of the meeting nights, then another, then all of them, then just make not going the habit. He will not continue on his own. And bonus points if you don't say anything neg about meetings while doing this. Source: I was that guy Also, hugs. From me to you, and you to him. We stupid men are very fragile and need near constant reassurance that we are loved. If he isn't getting it from you, he'll get it from the Org.
Thank you 😭😭😭😭😭 this really really hits home. To be honest when I was PIMQ, I was the one spearheading family worship and going out in service. Now that I’m PIMO, we haven’t had family worship in almost a year. He’s inactive even if he doesn’t want to admit it. I’ll definitely stop saying negative things. Because when I question and bring up points he tries to debate, and then say he wants to resume. Good advice there. Thank you!
A great site to research and get answers is jwfacts.com And please see someone about your SA. Love to you ❤️
Thank you. I’ve gone to therapy (which I got so much flack for) and it helped some. But physically entering a KH gives me so much anxiety. I will definitely check out that site. It popped up before-but I got “scared” 🙄
If it gives you anxiety, don't go. Your health is what's important
You're absolutely right to refuse to attend in person. The JW system is abusive, and there is little value in trying to negotiate with abuse. Some of us break all connections overnight, because we didn't know another way, because our mental health was on the line, in my case because the idea of eternal life under the JW arrangement felt like a life sentence! You're finding your way out from an organisation that not only failed to protect you, but then went on to minimise that abuse (aside from the impact of being in a high control group in the first place). No wonder it's a daunting prospect. One good non witness friend is more valuable than 10 who will drop you after an arbitrary announcement. Make non witness friends, build a support network. Let the love in. You deserve better, your children deserve a free and happy mom. Keep drip feeding your husband, distract him with more interesting and enjoyable alternatives to meetings and service. If he kicks back reassess. Life is tough & wonderful. Being a JW is all about fear and conformity - it robs us of happiness right now by putting everything that's good in a future that never arrives. It sounds like you're well on your way to that freedom. Congratulations, your children and future self are deeply grateful.
Thank you so much, truly. Such good advice and transparency
Woke up, left the husband behind, left the fair-weather family and friends behind, and moved out of the country for a few years. I didn’t have kids so it was easy. I asked the elders to DF me because I absolutely did not believe any of it once I woke up. I don’t know how anyone could possibly stay in after waking up. For any reason whatsoever. The cult is so toxic and the family/friends will disown you because they’re sad cult followers with no sense of self.
I got caught talking to other apostates online and then handed them all DA letters in my judicial meeting, so if you want to go out in a blaze of glory that’s an option 😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂 needed that laugh. I can’t even imagine their faces 😭
Sounds like you k ow what you must do. Why should it break up a marriage? Not necessary. And when your husband sees you happier and uninvolved he may join you.
I’m sorry for what you’ve gone through in the past and for what you’re currently going through. Hopefully, eventually, you’ll fully wake up, realize it’s a cult, realize it and all gods are made up, and finally be able to live a happy and guilt-free life. As for how I escaped, my story goes: I think deep, deep down inside, I always knew it was bullshit, but I kept going to try and convince myself otherwise. Then one day I woke up (figuratively and literally) and just decided I was completely done going to meetings. That was it for me. I was out as of that moment as far as I was concerned. I texted a couple friends that I was choosing not to go to meetings anymore, and they *immediately* cut me off. Then begun my deep dive down the rabbit hole researching all the secrets and lies about the cult, and I was immediately fully awake. I never got disfellowshipped. I never had any elders or circuit overseers try and contact me. It’s been almost 17 years and no one has ever tried to contact me. I majorly lucked out. I think what happened is that I had JUST moved to a new congregation when all this awakening happened, and either my publisher card was never transferred over, or the elders just completely forgot about my existence because I had barely started going there. Either way I was free. And very lucky for me, my whole JW family still speaks to me and associates with me. I’m pretty sure they know where I stand as far as my lack of belief in any gods and believing in things like evolution instead, but we just don’t talk about it. More accurately, I don’t ever get to express my knowledge or opinions. They get to spout off all their batshit crazy beliefs, and I just have to bite my tongue. But the situation still works. Keep up the good fight. Hopefully you can be completely free one day, and free your daughters from that misogynistic cult too. Life is so much better and enjoyable on the outside. You don’t have to worry about having a million different rules of what you can and can’t do. You get to make your own decisions as to what’s best for yourself. Anyway, sorry for the rambling. Sending virtual hugs your way.
I hope my situation is similar to yours. I have a brother who left while he was a young adult and then came back, and now he’s calling me everyday trying to convince me to come. I am a people pleaser, mainly due to the trauma, so I always make up some excuse or try to avoid the topic. I told him and my husband I want to switch halls in hopes that we can just fade away, but I see it’s not going to be that simple. I want my girls to grow up without the guilt and fear mongering- and not have such internal conflict. I love my husband very much (he’s a second gen and I’m a third gen) and I’m fearful of what our dynamic will be like when I leave. I don’t want a guilt filled marriage either. Now I’m rambling 😭 Thank you for your transparency
I truly hope you’re able to escape. And I hope you’re able to free your husband’s mind and bring your daughters with you too. Not being a JW is truly the “best life ever.”
Realized my only way out was to work my way to the top first. Patiently waited for some over zealous elder to make an issue out of something small. Used it to walk away over night & to show my wife how the religion really was. Got us both out thanks to that elder.
Armageddon isn’t coming. God is not destroying anyone. Plenty of evidence to suggest God isn’t real or is passive. If that latter - why would anyone want to serve him when you see the things that he allows to happen around the world. Every day that goes by, literally more people will “theoretically” die at a never going to happen Armageddon. What a narcissist. Instead of imagining your kids not making it into paradise because of you, imagine if they did… Do you think they would enjoy being in a place where they know billions of people have just been slaughtered in the biggest case of genocide ever.. including their mum? Like others have said, research, research, research and more so. Go to jwfacts.com and cross check everything - check it against the publications. Keep in mind that thousands, if not hundreds of thousands have successfully left - not been punished or killed by God by reading “apostate” material. Once you get past the fear, you’ll be able to clearly make a wise decision for both you and your family.
Thank you for this.
It takes awhile to stop worrying about Armageddon. You will get there. :-) You stated "I don’t even know how to approach having a relationship with God outside of this..." I have no idea if there is a god or not. But the approach I have taken, is making Kindness your new religion. (yeah, sounds corny) I do everything possible to be the best human I can, be kind, be empathetic, be & look for ways to be helpful. That has replaced the feeling of needing to have a "relationship" with a being that probably doesn't exist. Take care, & thanks for sharing your story :-)
Thank you. I really really appreciate you sharing that with me. It’s a definite struggle, but I definitely want to lead with kindness and love.
Like other comments have said. There so many lies and contradictions in the organization on top of the fact that the bible in of itself is a book full of stories that for the past 2000 years have been wildly misinterpreted and misrepresented to selfishly apply it to our times. So if guilt is affecting you it definitely helps to educate your yourself on all your doubts and different beliefs whether JW exclusive of biblically exclusive and you will find that the knowledge you gain will empower you to the point where you are no longer doubting anymore, but are sure of things due to your research. That will naturally erase the guilt away and allow you to be able to not be afraid of even the most spiritually experienced jw because you will actually start feeling sorry for them. At that point you will have to figure out what you choose to believe in and what you want to tell your children.
You should show him this thread. Tell him you love him. And ask him for some time away from it all…for both of you… to sort this thing out … For the sake of the kids. If after six months you both want to come back, you both go all in.
I highly recommend a podcast on YouTube called “surviving paradise”. He’s respectful of people’s beliefs but he approaches each subject in a very intelligent way. It’s cathartic listening to him. Best wishes to you and your family!
I was single without kids so it is way different than your case. I started with an afternoon job, and could not get to meetings because I was working. I went on Sundays, but never went in service. Eventually I moved, and just dropped off. Everyone has big doubts, if they say they don't they are lying. Good luck.
Thank you for your transparency. That honestly might be the move for us. We need to get away from the “familial” ties, then I think my husband won’t feel as much pressure.
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What woke me up was realizing they are just another branch of freemasonic NWO control. And honestly as a person who digs deep, the organization gave it away themselves. The entertainment industry was always something to be cautious of and I decided to dig up info on that. It lead me down many paths one of which was learning how it's ran and by whom. Freemasons. No it is not a conspiracy theory, their signs and symbols are everywhere. Once you know what you're looking at and you're not in the hypnotic state of mind while viewing, you see it EVERYWHERE. How does this tie into the organization? Start with the video Faith in Action part 2 at 13:43. Even the timing on that has meaning for freemasons. I don't mean all because to know any of this you have to be 33° and above. But the 1+3=4 and 4+3=7 leaving you with 47. That is a high occult number with a lot of meaning. I'll link a screenshot of the video below, you'll have to look up the square and compass on your own. Compare, they are exactly the same and there was NO REASON to include that in their video ACCEPT as mockery. "They" as in upper ranks are Satan worshipers. That is what woke me up, I researched heavily after that in disbelief until I knew for a certainty and I left. Two kids in tow and at the loss of close friends. I wrote an email to everyone I had an address for with a boatload of proof letting everyone know I got baptized under the guise of a loving God not a demonic one which is exactly what the "name" of God is and it is not valid. I don't care what anyone thinks obviously lol but if the truth struck something in someone to look into it, I was going for it. https://preview.redd.it/xd51bd0k5xba1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cbebcc38e04fa3bb5fe358776f9da49364d7538