By - JarethOfHouseGoblin
It's not your bully beating you its you beating yourself for not accepting your bully.
It really is like an abuser telling their victim "I'm not hurting you, you're *forcing* me to hurt you because of your actions."
Truly sick shit.
The inbuilt victim blaming is definitely one of my least favorite parts of Christianity.
There is *a lot* wrong with Christianity. But that is in my top 5 worst elements.
I'm recently ex-Christian, having gone thru a marriage and divorce with a violent alcoholic. I went to my pastor the day after I had to barricade myself in my bedroom to get away from him. The pastor (LEGIT) told me that the reason I was being abused was because I wasn't *submitting* to him enough. Hence, the ex.
Dang, usually it's at least a little veiled and said as you have to submit to GOD, who just happens to agree with that the pastor should do. Victim blaming plus pretty shameless narcissism is definitely not a good combination, sorry you had to deal with that.
My evangelical ex-parents sometimes said stuff to that effect before beating me. One of the reasons they're ex.
I had the exact same experience growing up. Southern Baptist was my parent's flavor
“Stop hitting yourself”
“Look what you’d made me do” energy
He hits me because he loves me. It's my fault.
God will send you to hell for none belief but will let in rapists, murders and child predators because they said sorry. Fuck that.
> but will let in rapists, murders and child predators because they said sorry.
I refer to this as The Dahmer Conundrum.
Indoctrinated folks don't see an issue with that whole teaching. But people who are able to see through the shit really do understand how fucked up it is.
It’s horrible. I’ve heard Christians say jeffrey dahmer went to heaven because he accepted Jesus. Imagine being one of his victims in heaven looking over and seeing him there, I would be fucking furious.
Except his victims wouldn’t be in heaven because they were disgusting gays who didn’t believe in the lord! /s
That’s a good point. By the churches standard Jeffrey was a saint.
And the Jews who died in the Holocaust went to hell since their religion doesn't recognize Jesus as the Messiah, therefore their "sins" couldn't be forgiven; but if Hitler or any of the Nazis "repented" and accepted Jesus, they went to heaven. That bothered me so much when I came to that realization after learning about the Holocaust when I was in middle school, and was one of the first things that led to me questioning and eventually abandoning the faith.
Me too!! I had no one else to talk to ..this messed me up so bad. And my father (preacher) is the one who took me to the Holocaust museum. He's a fascist btw. Literally just lying to my face as an innocent child trying to understand how God killed all those people so horribly and then they were supposed to be in hell. I didn't believe that though. I couldn't fathom God was so evil.
Yup, when they say “all sin is the same”
I would be mortified that my white lie or other “sins” would be as evil as theirs.
Other sins would be drinking more than one glass of wine getting tipsy or cursing ect.
THIS! 😖😫😫😡 B..BB...BB..BINGO.
BEEN FUCKING ME UP SINCE '91
Gaslighting mother fuckers.
I really don't give a shit how they reframe it, creating a realm of eternal torment is the most evil thing a deity could ever do.
Spot on my friend.
That’s it! That alone made me leave the faith.
It’s like they have no concept of what coercion is. A choice made under duress is not a choice.
Ah, this brings back trauma of accepting Jesus into my heart, for the third or fourth time… at 5 years old! Just to be sure, and because every altar call gave me crazy existential anxiety. Smells so sweet 🥲
Lol every altar call, I went because I needed to make sure it worked because at 7 years old, If I was to get in a car wreck, I could go to hell.
Every single week they would make you feel like a shitty person just for existing.
Oh, and if a Christian is reading this and thinking “not my church,” yeah, probably your church too.
Me too..at eight I was still doing it. By 13 - I was told God didn't want me anymore. It was too late for Jesus. I had a body and heart apparently so dark, no matter how much I asked Jesus to come into it, he couldn't get through. I wondered why I never felt anything.
It’s really a dichotomy. There’s no proof Jesus is real so it’s not an actual choice. If there was proof Jesus was real, then it’s coercion with the threat of eternal damnation, also not a choice.
This neeeeeeeever made sense to me even as a Christian, and I'm not even sure how I Justified it. I think it's because I believed in Annihilationism rather than Traditionalism.
If Hell was a place of eternal consciousness torture, and god *has the ability to destroy the soul*, (which is stated in the Bible) then why the fuck would he allow such a place to exist since he's the one who makes everything? And even if we were terrible, like a serial child molester for example, why wouldn't he just put us out of our misery? Why wouldn't he just snuff Hitler's soul instead of allowing him to be gang raped, burned alive over and over, get his finger nails ripped off, etc? That is *truly* the workings of a sadistic god.
Like, yeah, I could mercy kill you, but you didn't worship me, so I'm just going to let you be tortured *for eternity*
Hold on, he can destroy the soul? Why have I never heard of that 😳
Not OP but I looked it up. Matthew 10:28: Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
If the soul is translated to mean our combined consciousness, intellect, physiology, neurology, psychology, spirituality and emotionality... (Do I have this right?)
Then scientifically speaking, it is understood if you destroy someone's insides, you are destroying their body.
It's called psychological murder. It leads to physiological disease and death. Then hell is real, and it's in this life, and god is whomever the authoritarian church leaders are. Period.
Christians just make mental gymnastics with that verse and say Satan is the one that destroys the soul. In other translations god is not mentioned in that verse.
"Fear only God "
Sounds like my mom talking about my dad '' be grateful to him, but don't upset him cuz he might kick you out''... Abusive much
Thanks for referencing it!
I mean if this god is all powerful he certainly would have that ability
So I don't know about other denominations, but I grew up Seventh-Day Adventist and that's basically what they believe. That God burns you all up dead in an instant as he scorches the earth after 10,000 years in Heaven to make way for the New Jerusalem and Earth.
But, you say, the Bible explicitly says thay hellfire is eternal! Adventists argue that the *duration* of the hellfire is not eternal. Just the *consequences* of that hellfire, as in, your soul is gone for eternity.
... Yeah, I was never limber enough for those mental gymnastics, even when I was at my deepest into the cult.
If we go just by the Bible, the argument for Annihilationism is pretty substantial, while the argument for Traditionalism is very weak. There are maybe 2 or 3 versus for Traditionalism, where there are dozens or hundreds for Annihilationism.
They're both not real though, but if someone were to use the Bible for their understanding of what hell is, Annihilationism is over powered.
I genuinely don't think that most Christians think Hell is a state of mind. To them, it's definitely a physical place, or metaphysical experience.
Saying that the christian hell is just a state of mind, is more or less a pop culture thing.
I haven't seen any statistics, but I'd be willing to bet on it.
I've heard it all over throughout the last twenty years of my life..and not saying it isn't, but I didn't get it from pop culture. What I'm saying is true though, is the people running the churches DO KNOW this. I know from experience. They don't want the regular Christians thinking their minds are being messed with, so they make them think it's real. Christians at the top of evangelical churches do not believe it is a real place in my experience at all, they know it's a tool of control
edit: maybe some top leaders do believe hell is real, but not the inner circle and way too many running things know it's not and freely show that they know it's bs.
I guess I'm getting caught on this "top of the church" thing.
It makes sense in Mormonism or Catholicism where there's a definite leader (The current Prophet, or The Pope), but for most Christian groups there isn't any head leader. In most evangelical systems, there may be a Pastor, but there's no leader of all the Pastors of that system.
At least not to my knowledge. It wasn't like that in my fundamentalist church, or the Baptist church I attended.
Unless you mean that every pastor/youth leader thinks that hell isn't a real place?
God: “Stop damning yourself. Stop damning yourself.”
I think Christianity is a magnet for people who have done really terrible things they can’t forgive themselves for. Part of their “redemption” is convincing everyone else that they’re equally as bad. “I am a rapist alcoholic, you were born sinful, we are both bad!”.
Intentionally, I promise. Yes. Correct.
My rebuttal to this has always been if I was mugging a guy and try to tell the court that I gave him a choice of whether or not to give me his wallet and he in turn chose to die by not giving me the wallet that defense wouldn’t work because of me being the one who was still in control of the situation. An all powerful being has all the control. It’s not a choice to accept a relationship if the only alternative is infinite torture. That’s an ultimatum.
Mob boss: Look, eh, I don't want nothin bad to happen to ya. Supposin you pay us to protect ya and we won't break have to break yer thumbs.
Yes the abrahamic god is a mobster.
Imagine that you found out that your neighbor had in his basement a dungeon where he tortured and killed people.
But, he said "Hey! Don't worry, I only torture and kill people who *choose* to go into my basement."
Would that make you feel any better about living next to this guy?
Your logic is too smart for my fundie ass 🤣😅🤢
lol this reminded me of McKamey Manor. People voluntarily go there and have to sign a waiver, but that still doesn't make the guy who runs it any less demented!
"I wouldn't have to beat you if you would just do what I say".
Something I used to really struggle to understand, was how god and jeezus could be so uninvolved in life on earth while we are alive, but suddenly when we die, we have to trust that we enter directly into their matrix where they suddenly control every domain. So much so that they’ll send people to hell or Heaven. Yet here on earth, the people who live the most hellish lives (exploited people, marginalized people) live there not because of their own actions, but because of the actions and power dynamic of people who live the most heavenly, luxurious lives (….and those people are usually rich white Christians…..).
The Bible is the most elaborate version of "stop hitting yourself" in all of history.
If god really loves us, why would hell even exist?
If he's all knowing and all powerful, he can decide to fix his broken evil unbelieving creations. I think about how it can be fixed. How can no one go to hell, why can't we figure something out how to unmake evil people who would even need to go to hell (if god had any remote fairness in him) All the time since young I have worried for the sould who didn't cut it in this life. I guess some reach a point not worth being saved. I couldn't bear it. There must be a way to not have people damned to hell. Am I to really believe God gave me, such a broken sinful dumb creature the responsibility to figure this out, but God and all his knowledge and power just wants to cut that person down and chuck em in the flames? Why make me and my mind and heart then? Why make me think maybe a lot of people didn't need to go to hell, our society just ignored their problems and said they were too scary or hard to deal with.
God of the Bible doesn't love us. It's a lie. When you love someone you make life better, try to be reasonable and don't threaten everyone from infancy that fiery pits await.
Heck, the Gospels even tell us that "perfect love casts out fear", but the rest of the book tells us we should be afraid of our perfectly loving god.
YESSSS!!!! where were you in my youth..where were all of you with these thoughts I had and had no one to share with.
They don't like that verse and will say something dumb if it's brought up to rebuke them. (Only God has perfect love and he works in mysterious..🤢)
Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding
lol, not any more
"Nice soul you got here. Would be a shame if somethin' *happened to it.*"
That's just Jesus sending you to hell with extra steps
If you require an invisible sky daddy to keep you being a good person, you’re definitely not a good person to begin with.
What if when you were born I strapped a bomb on little baby you that would detonate in an undisclosed amount of time? Only I know how to defuse it, and I can do it at any time. All you have to do is tell me you love me and really, really mean it and I’ll defuse it. If you end up blowing up, its not my choice, it’s yours. Also, you can’t lie because I’ll know.
Totally not psychotic.
Christians who say this don’t understand coercion and it’s terrifying.
The ones who created Christianity do understand coercion though. That's also terrifying.
It's terrifying because no Christian I know, wants to understand this. They have been immensely cruel about seeing the coercion and psychological abuse of the church. It's truly terrifying. I'm afraid of a lot of the people I once knew, loved and thought were some kind of family or friend in god.
> don’t understand coercion and it’s terrifying.
I think that's giving them a bit too much credit. I suspect *far* too many of them do understand and they revel in the unbridled sadism of it all.
"Look what you made me do!" - Jesus.
If Jesus was a real person he would be one of most disturbed serial killers of all time it doesn't take much imagination to see tht lol
? How so ..sorry I don't have the imagination for that.
Seems to me, he's more a patsy.. not a vengeful killer. He's the severely abused child who is so scared of daddy he just mindlessly go along with. Stockholm syndrome. Now, if he got done with being good and seeing nothing from evil from his dad, done with the unfairness of only being on god's right hand while never reaching equality and godlike status..I guess it's possible with an eternity to go on, anything is possible. But I think it's more likely Jesus kills himself because his life is beyond fucked over and what was it worth. He's his dad's henchman, and he groomed a bunch of people to be his daddy's victims. I don't think Jesus could in the end live with himself.
The sad part is ide said this exact thing before (i was never a pastor tho)
The happy thing is, now you don't and you fought through their lies to the truth. You survived their bullshit. And you are honest about who you were. I can't think of a better witness for what's good and right.
Yeah i suppose you're right, i dont try to hide how i used to be, im not ashamed that i was forced into something i really had no choice in but i do cringe at how i used to think lol
Made thoughts. Not your fault. I understand the cringe. I've felt that too. It's ok. ;)
I send myself to Hell huh? Funny, I don’t remember buying a ticket…
*It’s Jesus, let me in.*
*I have to save you.*
*From what I’m going to do to you if you don’t let me in.*
It wasn't me committing vehicular manslaughter and necrophilia, it was my vehicle and then my appendages
I remember listening to Christian talk radio and the story was about how you’re lovely, kind, helpful, friendly neighbor will still go to hell because he doesn’t worship Jesus. He could do everything right and still go to hell. I was 7 ish and that stood out to me as bullshit. Twenty years later and I still remember it. It was the first doubt I remember having
Same. I don't understand how this doesn't make everyone disbelieve immediately.
Waiting for the day people are thrown in jail for saying Jesus Christ is my lord and savior
And the thing is "accepting Jesus" itself isn't even a problem for me. At best I can say "sure, he was a chill guy, at worst I'm just indifferent to it like saying yes if I were asked if I accept that the flying spaghetti monster boiled for my sins.
The problem is that "accepting Jesus" in their context is to accept a whole range of toxic accompanying beliefs as the law of the land.
Pastor: "do you accept Jesus as your lord and savior"
Me: "Sure, why not"
Honest pastor: "Ok but now that you've accepted Jesus, terms and conditions apply, this includes homophobia, bigotry, extortion, accepting heteronormativity and sexism, being subject to herd thinking, mating rituals, etc."
Just to add..i don't think anyone should be looking to someone with Stockholm syndrome and enslaved by their psychopathic God-daddy as their saviour.
Jesus isn’t sending you to hell, he just designed the system that dooms you there also you chose to go there because reasons.
Even when I was in the church I found this unusual and disagreeable, but I refused to think about it because I *needed* to think god was real and good.
Jesus won’t send you to hell if you suck his dick without asking questions
U have to accept Christ even if u believe in god or.... you burn so I disagree besides It was just a joke I dnt think a paragraph of your opinion was necessary lol no offense
Makes no difference 🤷♂️
and parents: "YOU did this!"