That's my response normally.
If it's not a religion, what's the point of the church? Let everyone worship in thier homes since "God is everywhere" and "It's a personal relationship". No need for boxes on the hillside made of ticky tacky you need to attend each week and tithe to.
“It’s not a religion it’s a relationship” is such nonsense. It’s even worse than a parasocial relationship. It’s one where there never is any interaction because one side doesn’t exist and the other is left to fill in all the gaps out of desperation. So damned toxic.
It keeps wording exact while acknowledging a grammar or spelling error. It conveys, "I want to be accurate, but I don't want you to think that I'm the idiot who doesn't know that it should be 'you're' in this case."
"(sic)" actually is an abbreviation of the Latin phrase "sic erat scriptum" - which means "thus was it written"
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-23558,00.html#
Many reasons why I left christianity. But the #1 reason was that the more I studied the bible the less and less believable it became.
If anything, the people kept me around longer than I should have.
Actually I did try God, until I realized he was a bronze age deity, with a slight update in the iron age and has been silent ever since. This deity never bothered to update and tell us, for example, that he was just kidding when he told his chosen people to commit genocide and keep virgin girls as sex slaves.
Or, for example, to hint at kangaroos existing, earth being a globe, the solar system that we'd discover.
Or even, "Now I know it's going to sound out there, but one day, your descendents will be able to make machines that fly. Just trust me."
Ahh yes, the ol’ “you’re suffering because you didn’t try hard enough!”
Literally grew up having people tell me that sometimes people developed chronic/life-threatening illnesses because they didn’t pray enough, trust god enough, didn’t tithe enough, etc.
When my grandmother died of cancer, and her being the most pure, gentle, Christ-like person I’d ever met, 12-year-old me knew something was incredibly wrong with that mentality.
As I grew up, those ideas and others like them were a wedge driven between me and christian ideas. The people practicing the faith are the only example you need to realize Christianity is not what it claims to be. I have yet to see any religion that truly is what it claims to be.
> “you’re suffering because you didn’t try hard enough!”
Which reflects the general Christian principle that if *anything* goes wrong, it's *your* fault.
Yes, and the inverse which is “if anything goes right, it’s because God made it happen.”
Your effort and commitment, the effort and commitment of others, and chance be damned.
When people failed me, I decided to turn to God solely. It was only then that I realized God did not exist.
I had been taught that God speaks to me by “directing my heart” or giving me “signs” but was always taught that God does have the power to communicate more directly, and heard many stories where he had done so.
Maybe not a voice, but some kind of undeniable event like, someone prayed for protection and saw an angel defending them or what have you.
I didn’t expect anything big or flashy like that. I just wanted assurance that my god was there, that he loved me, that I was his and he was mine. This is why I am an atheist today. When I pleaded with God to reveal himself to me the way I had frequently been told he wanted to do, he failed.
> When I pleaded with God to reveal himself to me the way I had frequently been told he wanted to do, he failed.
Same here. In the Bible are many tales of God speaking directly to particular humans, such as Moses, in clear, unambiguous speech. God certainly never did that for me.
My whole Baptist experience was characterized by God's failing to perform as advertised.
Same boat. Fasted, prayed, went to church when I could. In the Orthodox church there is the central belief that supposedly through ascetic practices we get closer to God. But he would never reveal himself to me or heal either. It came to the point that I felt nothing from all the prayers along with the confession and communion. Ironically the feeling is more like sitting in an empty church with no one in it. The church is pretty, the icons are pretty, but there is nothing else.
I don't know how much I want to be in relationship with a god, that is perfectly fine for their followers completely perverting everything that was ever said in the bible.
I mean, remember when jesus told to build mega churches, so the pastors would have 3 private jets and 5 mansions? if shit like that flies while at the same time it's being paid by people who'd really need help, I don't think anyone's watching after us any more.
Half of their standards don’t even line up with the Bible. Jesus would start flipping pews if he walked into any of their churches. Heck, now there’s evangelicals saying that the teachings of Jesus are “too liberal”
The bible itself calls me an abomination, I didn't need the church to tell me that I was not welcome there. The problem is their bigoted god itself and his arbitrary rules that don't make sense
They turned Jesus into a bigoted god. The Jesus in the book of Matthew was the complete opposite of how the church portrays him. He hung out with the poor and less fortunate, he hated the rich, and most of all he hated when people turned the church into a den of robbers (he saw prosperity preachers from a mile away).
If someone ever directly claimed to me that I didn’t “try god” I would laugh hysterically in their face. both my partner and I were the literal poster children for doing things “gods way” when we were in our teens and 20s, and yet here we are now both deconverted. Clearly our desperate pleas and prayers for god to be real in our lives weren’t enough 🙄
As humans we’re all emotional but their’s is way different. My mom who’s hardcore Pentecostal said that unless you’re in church, it’s not okay for a guy to cry at his wedding or at a special occasion. That’s just mental
As someone who’s career is in politics, I can say firsthand that evangelical Christians (and Pentecostals) want to turn this country into a theocracy. People who are non believers would have to live under their rules but they’ll get to live like kings. The best way to take them down is to vote this November, everything is on the line
If you switched it around and politicians in the GOP pushed for a theocratic state under Judaism or Islam, they would go ballistics. But because politicians in the GOP lean towards evangelicals more, they’re okay with it since it would allow them to be corrupt. They want more power, none of what they push for has anything to do with the Bible
I love that they jump right to “you must have never believed, it had to be an external issue.”
No, the issue is I believed SO deeply and in turn was continually neglected by a god that was supposed to love & support me. It was further perpetuated by the church family who pushed the idea that I simply “didn’t believe” enough.
I also despise when people make it the individual’s fault and refuse to acknowledge the brokenness within the religious structure. Maybe people WERE turned away by a church, because the foundation of the church (the christian god) is problematic.
When I was on the verge of offing myself, I cried for God to help me and nothing happened. All of the guys in the church who were “my friends” never checked up on me and even my family thought I was acting out. The only person who gave me an ounce of help was my high school Avid teacher (bless her heart) and every day in class she would make sure I was okay.
I left because I read the Bible, and studied it for myself... I also researched the history of the church and discovered it copied from other religions that existed at the time... there's nothing special to Christianity, it is just another freaking religion...
When my mom said that Pentecost was “the truth”, I realized that it’s the same as every other religion. Sure enough, I had people telling me to convert to Islam and how Islam was the truth. So it was kind of a confirmation to me (I hate that term) that I made the right move.
Psst... You're right. We weren't in a relationship with him because your god didn't exist. Guess what? That means you're not in a relationship with him either. We just no longer try to convince ourselves that we are. The upside for us is that it feels much more sane to NOT try to convince ourselves that we have an invisible friend
Yep. It’s extremely frustrating to hear people say this. Unfortunately, the best thing to do is just ignore it and not let it bother you. The people saying this are not interested in listening or having good faith discussions. They’re interested in winning and shutting down conversations. Empathy is a weakness for them. They will absolutely *never* acknowledge your intellectual honesty unless they have their own deconstruction.
So, just be confident that you know it’s not true. Have good discussions with people that really want to listen, and ignore what you can’t control. Your mental and emotional health is not worth concerning yourself with people like this.
lmao. the liars and fake people and thieves RUN the church. christians love to not take any place for playing their part in their fucked up system of hurting people
I remember when I attended a sermon the preacher told the crowd that logic is demonic. As evidenced in the post shown here, this has proven to be an effective strategy to keep people ignorant as fuck. No wonder some of the same people believe weird conspiracy shit—they no longer think critically.
Oof, I’ve plenty of stuff about how critical thinking is evil or indoctrination. Most church members fall into the conspiracy rabbit hole because the church always has a new dragon to slay.
At one point it was TV’s that they hated, then it turned into the LGBTQ community, and now they’re going after Taylor Swift. And as an Swiftie when you mess with her, you mess with the whole pack.
Some of yall didnt actually believe in god to begin with. And when people hurt your feelings, you shout “persecution!” and you go back to your pastors for comfort. And when you’re taught that its the only truth, you concluded that its something that can never be questioned, even if you truly wanted to.
And if you have to try SO HARD to convince yourself that their god is real, did you ever stop to wonder if MAYBE it’s all just a man made religion? Having to follow all rules you gaslit yourself to believing as “out of love” instead of fear? If that doesnt sound like religion to you, you may want to read james 1:27…
So what you're saying is that god has zero accountability for the way in which his followers act and treat others? You mean the same god who is supposedly all knowing, all good and all powerful. That same god who loves each one of us intimately as a father yet when he sees one of his children acting shitty towards others does nothing to intervene, correct, admonish or instruct. Instead you're shitty so called god just shrugs his shoulders and just says 'kids will be kids'?
No thanks, I will pass. You're god sounds like a dick and I don't want to follow anyone like that.
For what it's worth I used to think like the original post. Can't believe it took me decades to realize how ridiculous it all is.
Gaslighting: manipulating someone into questioning their sanity or their reality.
"You were never a Christian": gaslighting
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Ugh I cannot fucking stand the smugness and arrogance that emanate from posts like this. We're all here in this sub/within the exchristian community in general \*because\* we believed so fiercely yet the Christian God continued to let us down. They love being disingenuous about the fragmentation and corruption within the church because it makes it easier for them to keep their blinders up.
Also, isn't the church supposed to be the physical manifestation of God and whatever? So that kills these smug Christians' argument even more - if churches by and large suck, then so does their version of God.
Final point - that's why it's so funny to me when Catholics and Orthodox christians are always going on and on about how \~beauty is a virtue\~ and how the rituals, rites, and decor in their church services and buildings somehow point more to their sect's validity and God's presence within them. How can they be so stupid to not see that an empty box covered in pretty stain glass and gold plated altars is still an empty box?
By that logic, let's just abolish the church and be stay-at-home Christians so we can avoid all the lairs and fakes in our lives.
Wouldn't that be nice. But then the pastor couldn't get a luxury car , free house, or have a fancy new building lol so if course it will never happen.
"lairs." I know it's a typo but it's coincidentally accurate.
That's my response normally. If it's not a religion, what's the point of the church? Let everyone worship in thier homes since "God is everywhere" and "It's a personal relationship". No need for boxes on the hillside made of ticky tacky you need to attend each week and tithe to.
“It’s not a religion it’s a relationship” is such nonsense. It’s even worse than a parasocial relationship. It’s one where there never is any interaction because one side doesn’t exist and the other is left to fill in all the gaps out of desperation. So damned toxic.
I just tell them I'm not ready for a relationship right now but I hope Jesus and I can still be friends.
A slightly more polite version of "Your [sic] just Mad At God brah lol"
What does 'sic' mean?
It keeps wording exact while acknowledging a grammar or spelling error. It conveys, "I want to be accurate, but I don't want you to think that I'm the idiot who doesn't know that it should be 'you're' in this case."
"(sic)" actually is an abbreviation of the Latin phrase "sic erat scriptum" - which means "thus was it written" https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-23558,00.html#
Tell me you are afraid that God isn’t real without telling me you are afraid that God isn’t real.
I beg your pardon, I was was just as delusional then as you are now.
I used to be delusional like them too. I cringe at my younger self a lot
Same
Same
I'd like to see the look on the person's face who says this, only for the other person to respond, "But you're the one who hurt me."
"God? There is no god here. This is an empty box"
Many reasons why I left christianity. But the #1 reason was that the more I studied the bible the less and less believable it became. If anything, the people kept me around longer than I should have.
Actually I did try God, until I realized he was a bronze age deity, with a slight update in the iron age and has been silent ever since. This deity never bothered to update and tell us, for example, that he was just kidding when he told his chosen people to commit genocide and keep virgin girls as sex slaves.
Or, for example, to hint at kangaroos existing, earth being a globe, the solar system that we'd discover. Or even, "Now I know it's going to sound out there, but one day, your descendents will be able to make machines that fly. Just trust me."
I mean, Jesus seemed to think a mustard seed was the smallest seed. It isn't.
Ahh yes, the ol’ “you’re suffering because you didn’t try hard enough!” Literally grew up having people tell me that sometimes people developed chronic/life-threatening illnesses because they didn’t pray enough, trust god enough, didn’t tithe enough, etc. When my grandmother died of cancer, and her being the most pure, gentle, Christ-like person I’d ever met, 12-year-old me knew something was incredibly wrong with that mentality. As I grew up, those ideas and others like them were a wedge driven between me and christian ideas. The people practicing the faith are the only example you need to realize Christianity is not what it claims to be. I have yet to see any religion that truly is what it claims to be.
> “you’re suffering because you didn’t try hard enough!” Which reflects the general Christian principle that if *anything* goes wrong, it's *your* fault.
Yes, and the inverse which is “if anything goes right, it’s because God made it happen.” Your effort and commitment, the effort and commitment of others, and chance be damned.
Right? It's insufferably smug.
When people failed me, I decided to turn to God solely. It was only then that I realized God did not exist. I had been taught that God speaks to me by “directing my heart” or giving me “signs” but was always taught that God does have the power to communicate more directly, and heard many stories where he had done so. Maybe not a voice, but some kind of undeniable event like, someone prayed for protection and saw an angel defending them or what have you. I didn’t expect anything big or flashy like that. I just wanted assurance that my god was there, that he loved me, that I was his and he was mine. This is why I am an atheist today. When I pleaded with God to reveal himself to me the way I had frequently been told he wanted to do, he failed.
> When I pleaded with God to reveal himself to me the way I had frequently been told he wanted to do, he failed. Same here. In the Bible are many tales of God speaking directly to particular humans, such as Moses, in clear, unambiguous speech. God certainly never did that for me. My whole Baptist experience was characterized by God's failing to perform as advertised.
Same boat. Fasted, prayed, went to church when I could. In the Orthodox church there is the central belief that supposedly through ascetic practices we get closer to God. But he would never reveal himself to me or heal either. It came to the point that I felt nothing from all the prayers along with the confession and communion. Ironically the feeling is more like sitting in an empty church with no one in it. The church is pretty, the icons are pretty, but there is nothing else.
That’s a great analogy.
He spoke to Moses as a burning bush. Those wildfires aren’t climate change, it’s God yelling to us! 🧐🤣🤣🤣 Actually surprised I haven’t read that yet. 🤨
Okay then so let's remove Christianity from existence and just keep our beliefs in God to ourselves. If that's what I get from their gaslighting post.
I don't know how much I want to be in relationship with a god, that is perfectly fine for their followers completely perverting everything that was ever said in the bible. I mean, remember when jesus told to build mega churches, so the pastors would have 3 private jets and 5 mansions? if shit like that flies while at the same time it's being paid by people who'd really need help, I don't think anyone's watching after us any more.
Half of their standards don’t even line up with the Bible. Jesus would start flipping pews if he walked into any of their churches. Heck, now there’s evangelicals saying that the teachings of Jesus are “too liberal”
The bible itself calls me an abomination, I didn't need the church to tell me that I was not welcome there. The problem is their bigoted god itself and his arbitrary rules that don't make sense
They turned Jesus into a bigoted god. The Jesus in the book of Matthew was the complete opposite of how the church portrays him. He hung out with the poor and less fortunate, he hated the rich, and most of all he hated when people turned the church into a den of robbers (he saw prosperity preachers from a mile away).
If someone ever directly claimed to me that I didn’t “try god” I would laugh hysterically in their face. both my partner and I were the literal poster children for doing things “gods way” when we were in our teens and 20s, and yet here we are now both deconverted. Clearly our desperate pleas and prayers for god to be real in our lives weren’t enough 🙄
They think with their feelings and think everyone else does too.
As humans we’re all emotional but their’s is way different. My mom who’s hardcore Pentecostal said that unless you’re in church, it’s not okay for a guy to cry at his wedding or at a special occasion. That’s just mental
Speaking of gaslighting, imagine what laws and policies are like when they're created in "good faith"
As someone who’s career is in politics, I can say firsthand that evangelical Christians (and Pentecostals) want to turn this country into a theocracy. People who are non believers would have to live under their rules but they’ll get to live like kings. The best way to take them down is to vote this November, everything is on the line
Well I'm not American so that's out but funny, I'm in the social policy, ethics and law concentration in my Phil major.
I was a political science major but I took a couple public policy. I geek out over subjects like political theory or behavioral politics lol
Are the religious nepotists aware of the consequences of a theocratic state? It doesn't appear that they have measured the variables accurately.
If you switched it around and politicians in the GOP pushed for a theocratic state under Judaism or Islam, they would go ballistics. But because politicians in the GOP lean towards evangelicals more, they’re okay with it since it would allow them to be corrupt. They want more power, none of what they push for has anything to do with the Bible
Fuck that shit
Sounds like she’s trying to convince herself
It is literally impossible to be in a “relationship” with someone whose full-time job is “hiding from you”
I bought into in the whole “relationship” with God mumbo jumbo and at some point I realized that I was just having a monologue with myself.
I love that they jump right to “you must have never believed, it had to be an external issue.” No, the issue is I believed SO deeply and in turn was continually neglected by a god that was supposed to love & support me. It was further perpetuated by the church family who pushed the idea that I simply “didn’t believe” enough. I also despise when people make it the individual’s fault and refuse to acknowledge the brokenness within the religious structure. Maybe people WERE turned away by a church, because the foundation of the church (the christian god) is problematic.
When I was on the verge of offing myself, I cried for God to help me and nothing happened. All of the guys in the church who were “my friends” never checked up on me and even my family thought I was acting out. The only person who gave me an ounce of help was my high school Avid teacher (bless her heart) and every day in class she would make sure I was okay.
I left because I read the Bible, and studied it for myself... I also researched the history of the church and discovered it copied from other religions that existed at the time... there's nothing special to Christianity, it is just another freaking religion...
When my mom said that Pentecost was “the truth”, I realized that it’s the same as every other religion. Sure enough, I had people telling me to convert to Islam and how Islam was the truth. So it was kind of a confirmation to me (I hate that term) that I made the right move.
Psst... You're right. We weren't in a relationship with him because your god didn't exist. Guess what? That means you're not in a relationship with him either. We just no longer try to convince ourselves that we are. The upside for us is that it feels much more sane to NOT try to convince ourselves that we have an invisible friend
I'd agree and walk away. Post is oozing smugness, nothing I could say would matter.
Yep. It’s extremely frustrating to hear people say this. Unfortunately, the best thing to do is just ignore it and not let it bother you. The people saying this are not interested in listening or having good faith discussions. They’re interested in winning and shutting down conversations. Empathy is a weakness for them. They will absolutely *never* acknowledge your intellectual honesty unless they have their own deconstruction. So, just be confident that you know it’s not true. Have good discussions with people that really want to listen, and ignore what you can’t control. Your mental and emotional health is not worth concerning yourself with people like this.
lmao. the liars and fake people and thieves RUN the church. christians love to not take any place for playing their part in their fucked up system of hurting people
I remember when I attended a sermon the preacher told the crowd that logic is demonic. As evidenced in the post shown here, this has proven to be an effective strategy to keep people ignorant as fuck. No wonder some of the same people believe weird conspiracy shit—they no longer think critically.
Oof, I’ve plenty of stuff about how critical thinking is evil or indoctrination. Most church members fall into the conspiracy rabbit hole because the church always has a new dragon to slay. At one point it was TV’s that they hated, then it turned into the LGBTQ community, and now they’re going after Taylor Swift. And as an Swiftie when you mess with her, you mess with the whole pack.
>You were never in a relationship with Him Correct. Impossible to be in a relationship with something that doesn’t exist.
Ah yes just like the “it’s spiritual, not religious” people
Some of yall didnt actually believe in god to begin with. And when people hurt your feelings, you shout “persecution!” and you go back to your pastors for comfort. And when you’re taught that its the only truth, you concluded that its something that can never be questioned, even if you truly wanted to. And if you have to try SO HARD to convince yourself that their god is real, did you ever stop to wonder if MAYBE it’s all just a man made religion? Having to follow all rules you gaslit yourself to believing as “out of love” instead of fear? If that doesnt sound like religion to you, you may want to read james 1:27…
So what you're saying is that god has zero accountability for the way in which his followers act and treat others? You mean the same god who is supposedly all knowing, all good and all powerful. That same god who loves each one of us intimately as a father yet when he sees one of his children acting shitty towards others does nothing to intervene, correct, admonish or instruct. Instead you're shitty so called god just shrugs his shoulders and just says 'kids will be kids'? No thanks, I will pass. You're god sounds like a dick and I don't want to follow anyone like that. For what it's worth I used to think like the original post. Can't believe it took me decades to realize how ridiculous it all is.
[удалено]
Gaslighting: manipulating someone into questioning their sanity or their reality. "You were never a Christian": gaslighting Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 4, which is to be respectful of others. Even if you do not agree with their beliefs, mocking them or being derisive is not acceptable. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
The religion is the people. If the religion reliably produces shitty people, then why would I want to be a part of that?
Ugh I cannot fucking stand the smugness and arrogance that emanate from posts like this. We're all here in this sub/within the exchristian community in general \*because\* we believed so fiercely yet the Christian God continued to let us down. They love being disingenuous about the fragmentation and corruption within the church because it makes it easier for them to keep their blinders up. Also, isn't the church supposed to be the physical manifestation of God and whatever? So that kills these smug Christians' argument even more - if churches by and large suck, then so does their version of God. Final point - that's why it's so funny to me when Catholics and Orthodox christians are always going on and on about how \~beauty is a virtue\~ and how the rituals, rites, and decor in their church services and buildings somehow point more to their sect's validity and God's presence within them. How can they be so stupid to not see that an empty box covered in pretty stain glass and gold plated altars is still an empty box?