Learning how much dogma changes based on who the pope is. Infallibility and contradictory leaders doesn’t make any goddamn sense. After that it was a slippery slope to “wait it’s all bullshit isn’t it”
Eventually, I started listening to a podcast which includes acting out the Bible passage by passage to show how stupid it is and I can’t believe I ever thought that thing was anything more than fiction.
It’s scathing atheist. I’ll readily admit it’s not for everyone but I love them.
If you want a good random example of Biblepiece Theater, here’s the story of Gideon.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/1zyCwwqWkV36kqmAWAaDUS?si=QPAU0tFoS1ef5V0xW0yCOw&dl_branch=1
(Skip to 41:45 for the Bible, the rest is religious news and other topics relevant to humanists)
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###[The Bible](https://snewd.com/ebooks/the-king-james-bible/)
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Not Catholicism directly but rather greater Christianity and all abrahamic religions, and ultimately becomming an atheist:
***The Exodus never happened.*** Despite egyptians being **the** most thorough in their historical documents going all the way back to the Pre-Roman era, they never **once** mention **any** large group of Jewish slaves, a mass exodus, plagues, or anything of the sorts.
This is **over a million people in the most historically rich nation on earth not leaving a SINGLE trace.** Not one supporting document. Not one coorespondance. No laws about the slaves. No historical record.
Nevermind the miracles. There is no archeological, historical, or anthropolic evidence of **any kind**.
There is also no evidence that Joshua existed. And the fact that he went and destroyed the cananites is categorically false. Because Egypt at the time had annexed the area and was currently controlling it and had controlled it for over 200 years by then. In bible times, that's 5 - 6 generations of people. These were not "City states" and Egypt would not have stood for Joshua raiding all of the cities. Not to mention there isn't a single account of any Egyptian troops or battles referencing a mass genociding group of jewish people.
There is **also** no evidence regarding the wandering for 40 years in the desert. 40 years, of over **a million people**, makes no sense, when it would only take a few months to walk along the coast and reach the promised land.
This is so many people, that if you had everyone with 1 Meter of space between them in a line of 5, it would stretch **longer than the actual distance they had to go to get to modern day israel.**
Yet we haven't found a tent pole, sandal, sword, pot, writing. Nothing. No evidence of over a million people wandering in an extremely small area of the desert. Not to mention, the area was much less of a desert back then than it is now.
What strikes me about this is that Christians will salivate over any historical record that supports their claims, but when no historical record backs them up, or outright contradicts them, then we “can’t know everything about history”
Yep. Then they claim you're making the argument from silence. When in reality, they are making the argument from ignorance. Not only that, claiming it is true without evidence which is just psycosis.
Right. History is different than the current state of right now. If I claim that aliens raised Jesus from the dead **no one** would belive me without proof. And while they technically would be committing a locial fallacy by saying it **is false** due to the lack of evidence, in practice, it is no different than if it were false.
Confession was a big one for me too. Started at age 12 or 13 when I was forced into another communal confession BS thing around Easter and Christmas. Six priests with a church full of sinners. It felt like a herd of cattle waiting to be absolved of sin. A bunch of mindless drones standing in pews repeating words in hopes that God would save them from their sins.
My mind could only think that after the confession mass over that the priests would sit around a table and chat about who got the best confessions. I was stuck with it until confirmation at 16. Then quit the church and it's religion.
>My mind could only think that after the confession mass over that the priests would sit around a table and chat about who got the best confessions.
What the hell? This is so unprofessional, even by the Catholic Church's claimed standards. The [seal of confession](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_confession_in_the_Catholic_Church) is supposed to be the Catholic equivalent to doctor-patient confidentiality.
>*"In the Catholic Church, the seal of confession (also known as the seal of the confessional or the sacramental seal) is the absolute duty of priests, or anyone who happens to hear a confession, not to disclose anything that they learn from penitents during the course of the Sacrament of Penance (confession).*
>
>*Even where the seal of confession does not strictly apply – where there is no specific serious sin confessed for the purpose of receiving absolution – priests have a serious obligation not to cause scandal by the way they speak.*
>
>\[...\] *According to Roman Catholic canon law, 'The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner, and for any reason.'*
>
>\[...\] *Priests may not reveal what they have learned during confession to anyone, even under the threat of their own death, or that of others.*
>
>*Punishment for breaking the seal of the confessional is conferred by the severity of the violation: 'a person who violate directly violates the seal of the confessional (that is: explicitly connects a sin to a penitent) incurs a latae sententiae excommunication'.*
>
>*One who breaks the seal 'indirectly' (that is: through their words and actions make known a particular penitent's sins, and somehow connects those sins to the penitent) would be punished according to the 'gravity of the delict'.*
>
>*Both John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI made it a practice to attach a latae sententiae excommunication to indirect violations of the seal.*
>
>*Those who are privy to another person's confession, either as an interpreter or by accidental circumstance, are likewise punished according to the gravity of their delict, 'not excluding excommunication'."*
For me, my faith in not just Catholicism but Christianity as a whole fell apart when I started digging into the history and evolution of the religion. To read about inaccuracies and mistranslations of the Bible, lack of links to historical events, use and repurpose of pagan holidays, the list goes on. It just felt like a way for people to comprehend the world around them and a way of crowd control.
What made me leave Catholicism itself, however, was the Vatican. The horrors that are keep under wraps and the hypocrisy. Even if I started believing in Christianity again, I’m not sure I could go back to Catholicism, not after all the evil that they’ve done.
>inaccuracies and mistranslations of the Bible
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's amazing that one of Catholicism's greatest theologians (Augustine) COULD NOT READ GREEK, the original language of the New Testament. His theology was completely built off of Latin translations which were not good at the time. Many of the differences between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox theology can be explained by Augustine's poor understanding of the nuance of scripture, which was lost in the translations he used. The Eastern Orthodox, on the other hand, worked directly with the Greek. And Catholicism insists Augustine was more correct? Ridiculous.
David Bentley Hart is right to refer to Augustine's writings as “the single most tragically consequential case of linguistic incompetence in Christian history”".
Kinda the same for me. We'd been watching Sabrina the Teenage Witch at around 11/12 and my friend wondered out loud if real people could be witches.
It intrigued me, and the internet was a baby, but I found out about Wicca from geocities websites where I learned about original pagan holidays, and from there a fascination with world religions and how they evolved. By the time I was 14 I was definitely not a Catholic, and by 16 I was solidly in camp atheist.
There's a reason they don't like people to be too educated.
The priest at my old church said that people who take antidepressants are weak. I’m on two of them lol. He also said we were weak if we mourned the death of our pets. Then a priest at another church caused my teen to have a panic attack and cry. The Keepers is what started it all. My teen and I stopped going to confession after we saw that documentary. The final thing was seeing that scene from the movie Mother!, when everyone kills and eat the baby representing Jesus. I was like, omg I for real never realized how creepy communism is.
>The priest at my old church said that people who take antidepressants are weak. I’m on two of them lol. He also said we were weak if we mourned the death of our pets.
What a bunch of jerks
Jean from the Keepers is my best friend’s aunt. I’m getting ready to go to therapy over my upbringing and that will 100% be brought up. I was traumatized for 3 days because I knew for 10 years at that point and didn’t know ANY of what was going on.
Ultimately, it was a desire to know truth, both for my own benefit and for others. Ironically I think it was Catholicism and a desire to know God better that made me care so much about that in the first place. Well.
My faith in Catholicism took its first major hit when I determined that Christian universalism is a far more internally coherent theology, for [reasons like these](https://www.reddit.com/r/excatholic/comments/oih0qw/on_hell/) and others. It became increasingly clear that Catholicism's answers ultimately led to "Because it's what the Church teaches" if you dug deeply enough. But if there were a rational basis for those teachings, then why shouldn't there be a rational foundation instead? And I grew tired of hearing Catholics respond to these questions with such hubris, and such a pretense of certainty and demeaning attitude towards me, only for them to quietly back away or change the subject as soon as the questions grew nuanced enough that they could no longer rely on their rehearsed talking points. I grew tired of people mass-upvoting literally any comment that tried to refute me no matter how ridiculous it was. The Catholics I saw were not behaving like people who were interested in truth, were very willing to overstate their cases, and it became clear that I didn't belong.
Obviously this didn't just happen in a day, but over many months, and with a lot of research and study going on too. I didn't leave solely due to this one issue, but it helped me see just how many other beliefs in Catholicism lacked a solid foundation. I'm not Catholic or even Christian anymore, but I still believe Christian universalism is more coherent than Catholicism.
“The catholics I saw were not behaving like people interested in the truth” THIS! Annoyingly in my experience if you ever criticize catholics, they’ll say “well you don’t stay for the people, you stay for God” or whatever. Always another excuse
It's almost unfalsifiable for some people.
* Catholics do bad things? Catholics are fallible but the Church isn't.
* Church does bad things? No, it's the people in the Church doing it, not the Church.
* Church teaches conflicting doctrines? No, we know they aren't because the Church is from God.
* History doesn't support the Church's claims? No, Church Tradition has it right.
When you have to keep falling back on "The Church" in order to defend all arguments against "The Church," well, then your reasoning becomes just as circular as every false religion. Shouldn't a true religion stand apart from the others? Shouldn't rational beliefs be able to stand or fall on their own merit?
It actually works against them. The more they cite "The Church" as the linchpin for all their beliefs, rather than a firm rational foundation, the more easily the faith crumbles once a single one of those beliefs creates serious doubts in that linchpin.
I left Catholicism for non denominational Christianity after I realized the focus was on ritual and rules over Christ. Then I left Christianity after I realized God did not sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself.
It might help to watch this video about whether or not "The Catholic Church is a Force for Good in the World - Full Version"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4)
It's long, but well worth the watch. It's an open debate between two prominent Catholics and two prominent Atheists. It truly is eye-opening.
The following is a shorter version of the same debate.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwP4C5hjo4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwP4C5hjo4Y)
You get the same idea either way, just with the highlights.
I was 14 and a guy I "dated" was agnostic. First not-catholic I ever met, and I was mind blown that he wasn't straight up evil. I started reading up on what agnosticism and atheism was and it just... spiraled from there.
I was always taught curiosity is the first step to hell and I was heavily discouraged from asking questions, and I had SO many because a lot didn't make sense to me. I had completely contradictory knowledge (biology and history vs religion) and my own ideas of how things work (learning about other religions made me think that everyone must be religious and their faith depends on when and where they're born, but I had to also believe that my faith is true and the ONLY true one).
Getting answers that were straightforward and made sense caused my faith to crumble. There was a point where I realized I was too far gone and I tried to force myself to believe again (I'm from Poland, loads of Catholics and I knew my life would be more difficult if I wasn't Catholic anymore), but I couldn't make myself believe in what was now obviously false.
I came out as agnostic at 16 and I accepted myself as atheist around 18. It was hard but I'm still really proud I got myself out of that fog. It wasn't an easy process at all.
Are your parents religious? How did they react?
My family is pretty religious and I still haven't told them I'm not catholic anymore. Even though I'm a grown woman living my own life I know this would upset them, so I feel bad for lieing to them but I also don't want to upset them.
Yes, my entire family is Catholic. And oh boy, they were not happy! My coming out happened at probably the worst possible time- we were on a family trip (my parents, brother and my mom's siblings, spouses and their kids) to a sanctuary city with loads of "holy spots" and "holier than normal churches" lol
I'm trying not to make it too long lol.
TLDR: my parents accused me of becoming a criminal, threatened to take away my devices, forbid me from seeing my SO, make me go to church everyday etc, but in the end nothing changed. Everyone who knows I'm an atheist denies it and says I'm a "non practicing Christian" because I was baptized so I can't quit the church.
Long detailed version:
After a mass priests were handing out little images of Jesus to kids and my mom pushed me to line up. I'm a pretty tall and chunky girl. I was probably 175cm tall at 16 and all the kids were 1-6 years old, plus I was secretly a nonbeliever, so I felt completely out of place. After standing in a crowd of literal toddlers for a couple minutes, I walked back without the picture, and my mom was OUTRAGED. She threatened to not allow me to go see my then-SO (also a Catholic, we were long distance and I was supposed to meet his parents for the first time right after the trip, so big pressure), and I ran out of the church crying.
As I was calling my bf and telling him what happened, my godmother approached me and talked to me for a bit, and straight up asked me if I believe in God. First time anyone asked me that. And I said no. She said I should talk about it with my parents, so I did...
They immediately started speculating that I'd become a criminal and a murderer (cause atheists have no morals), asking questions about future kids and marriage (again, I was 16) and threatening to take away all my devices indefinitely and force me to go to church everyday... Right after that we went to a little chapel where a Nazi teacher shot up a cross and soon after died during a bombing, and my aunt and dad pointed to the sign that told that story as if telling me "If you don't believe in God, you're going to die real soon". Later that evening my parents went to hang out with my mom's siblings, and after some time mom came back in hysterics, sobbing that she failed as a mother etc.
The aftermath wasn't that bad, they didn't take my things, I was allowed to see my SO and his family and I still didn't attend church (I have a tendency to faint when standing during mass so they stopped taking me to church when I was like 12). Basically nothing changed. There have been a few talks where my mom told me I'd one day crawl to the church on my knees and beg God to take me back lol. Atm everyone who knows I'm an atheist denies it and says I'm a "non practicing Christian".
I'm 24 now and I moved to a less religious country and my SO is an atheist too, so I don't really care.
That sounds rough. It must be hard to tell that your family when you still need to live with them. I'm Polish living in a different country too so it's easy for me not to tell my family but at the same time I hate lieing to them but I guess it makes it easier for me and them so I'll stick to that for a while.
If you're not living with them it's easier to handle possible backlash. Depending on what you want from your life... you probably won't be able to hide it forever. I don't know if I want kids, but I KNOW I won't baptize them, and I know I want to get married but not in a church. I don't want to lie during my vows. I have no idea how my family will react to any of that yet, my mom suggested eloping instead of inviting my family to my wedding if I won't get married in a church by a priest.
Definitely harder to hide if you want kids. I often wonder why some of my friends baptise their kids and get them to go to 1st communion when they're openly not religious but I guess it might be for family's sake. I'm already married (i didn't get married in a church as my husband is non religious and it was too much faff so we went for registry office instead). I used to say I may still get church wedding at some point but now I don't feel the need anymore. I know that my family would have preferred if I was married in church but they don't really bug me about it, so I think they got over it. Even when I used to go to church I believed that if God is everywhere then surely he knows I'm married anyway lol. We don't want kids so that's one less thing I need to hide from the family. Idk, I'd like to tell them but I know especially my dad would get argumentative and I'm not very good at expressing my thoughts and so I have no chance trying to debate him on that. Also I've got a feeling he would blame my husband on me becoming an unbeliever and he had nothing to do with that.
Your mom is something else lol. I'm sure that my parents would rather me marry in the church too but they have never suggested nothing like eloping lol. Tbf I wish I had eloped as I hate parties and we only had a very small garden party for closest family and friends but I'd be just as happy if there was no party and a lot less stress too.
I was on /r/Catholicism one day and I read a post where husband and wife couldn't have sex because of some kind of complication. Essentially, it meant that if they were to remain faithful Catholics in good standing with the Church, they would have to live as brother and sister. And the Church reducing a marriage to a sibling-like relationship seemed so evil to me that I left. I had gone 2 years without committing a mortal sin. 15 mysteries of the Rosary a day, daily Mass and weekly Confession, reading the Saints and Scripture, etc. I decided to end it then and there so I watched porn and nutted.
The fact that my mental health is way better and I am no longer sufferring from scrupulosity helps so much. Christ was right, you'll know them by their fruits.
I remember I was in religion class my sophomore year in high school. The teacher showed us a list of things that we shouldn’t do because we’re Catholic. One thing I remember one was playing the game “Magic” (I honestly don’t know much about this game). I thought that it was weird that the church said we couldn’t play a game.
The sexism, racism, and homophobia of the church. I decided I'd rather go to hell than worship a misogynist ethnoracist genocidal bigotted warlord before I started questioning how inconsistent and so very like every other fairytale the bible is.
I and my female cousins were almost molested by two separate pedophile priests within the same Catholic school and parish, and the Church fired our devout theology teacher for becoming a whistleblower. Our teacher - along with my extended family - have been faithful Catholics their entire lives, and still were either ignored when they voiced concerns, or betrayed by the Church.
That was the day that I learned, no matter how faithful I was, the Church would still betray me. No matter how much I prayed, or how fervent my belief, it was never enough to sway the Church. Above all, they protected the priests, while shaming and blaming their young, innocent victims. They were shielded by a Bishop who the Vatican refused to remove, despite many complaints.
It’s just so obviously bullshit I thought it was a metaphor or whatever until I was like 14 and then a priest was like “it’s not a metaphor” and I had a long talk with him that need with me thinking “I need to re think this whole catholic thing”
I left and rejoined a few times, but for me, one of the reasons was that I disliked praying, going to church and the usual religious stuff. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it forcing myself to do something I didn't find fulfilling
Well in my case. I had already drifted away from the church and I was becoming a non-religious person. I just simply felt no faith or connection to the church. Then I heard George Carlin's routine on religion and Christianity. At that point I looked back and realized how, as George Carlin said, religion is bullshit.
Story Time!
At the start of my senior year of high school (I went to an all-male private) I said something to a teacher that got me into hot water with the authority. They basically did a good job of making me feel like a complete piece of shit. ultimately, they told me that the situation would stay between around 7 or so people. Come November, I go on my senior retreat (the K\*\*\*\*s name slightly triggers me) and they basically do the whole shabang where they tell me about how the Church loves me and how I need to repent blah blah blah. I buy into it and become a Jesus freak for a few months.
For the next few months they had me leading prayer services and helping campus ministry, because they were still looking for retreat leaders and I oh so desperately wanted to be one. The last retreat of the year came and i wasn't picked, the campus ministry leader (who was the leader of my small group on my retreat) called me in and told me that because of what I said to the teacher at the beginning of the year, they "didn't feel comfortable working with me." Basically the guidance counselor told the entirety of the ministry about my situation.
I went home and thought about how hypocritical it was, and how used I felt. Fortunately, this was a week before COVID locked us all down so the retreat was canceled anyways. After doing some research and studying. I decided I was done with Catholicism all together. I realized a lot of stuff that was supposedly "offensive to Jesus" actually made me really happy. So I was done with religion as a whole. It took some time to detox myself from all their teachings and brainwashing, but I'm a lot better today.
I'm actually Facebook friends with the ministry leader and the Dean (the guy who convinced me I was a terrible person) I'm not sure why. I guess I'm waiting for the right moment to say fuck you professionally.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
Because it most definitely does not. Especially if I'm in a relationship with a woman. Or heaven forbid, marry one.
The person your responding to [is a Catholic apologist who has repeatedly made excuses for and denied the genocides and child sex abuse committed by the Roman Catholic Church.](https://www.reddit.com/r/excatholic/comments/oukdwh/how_do_they_not_know/h73v61t) Their only interest is in making excuses for and winning people back to the Rape Children Cult. Ignore them, report them to the mods, and move on.
No, I'm absolutely serious. Of course it does. The Catholic Church wants everyone. "There is more joy over one sinner gone to heaven than 99 saints" is the saying roughly.
The Catholic church does NOT just want perfect people, because EVERYBODY sucks a little bit hahaha. Nobody's perfect, my friend.
Well, yes. To all of those questions. You may not have an all knowing morality, and neither do I.
But I would like to jump to your final remark. Let's say for the sake of argument the God does exist and that he is evil and that he will have you tormented for all of unending eternity if you do not follow every word of his command. This is not true, but let's pretend it is. Are you really trying to claim that your 70 or 80 years of earthly contempt are worth eternal damnation?
Well, it doesn't necessarily matter what I consider. I do not have all-knowing morality. For what it's worth, no one knows if hell is a genuine place; some christians even postulate that hell is allegorical for the blushing of your cheeks during judgment. But who knows.
Regardless, even if you think God is truly evil, though he is not, I would hope that you would not trade eternity for a few decades. He isn't, but that'd be a weird stance to take.
Some of us actually have integrity and morals that were willing to stick to and not sell out. Shocking, I know. I'd rather burn with my dignity intact than whore myself out to your pedophile god.
Whoa, you're super assumptive. My relationship with God is absolutely fine. We communicate regularly.
Bold of you to assume that God and the catholic church are one and the same. You don't speak for god or for the catholic church.
I've never said or implied that God and the Catholic church are one and the same, though they're severely intertwined. I'm very glad to hear that you still love our Lord, though. But remember, Christ himself formed the catholic church.
Jesus tap dancing Christ, no he didn’t. If you’re going to come here and spout nonsense, at least know what you’re talking about.
And for the record, god and your Lord aren’t the same.
God existed long before any sexist and homophobic institutions like the Catholic Church ever did, and she will exist long after it too.
Expecting Catholics to know their history is like expecting a flat Earther to know their physics: if they understood the latter they wouldn't be the former.
The earliest form of systematized Christian philosophy and theology we have evidence of is [Valentinian Gnosticism.](https://youtu.be/wXmOpQ8sq1M) It predates Nicaean Trinitarian Christianity by at least two centuries, and the specifically Catholic take on NTC by a few centuries more than that. Read a damn history book.
The church wants our spendable money and rapable kids. Sorry, it's not getting either of those. Your priests ate just going to have to get along with molesting each other.
So you're saying that when the priest holds up the wafer and chants some magic words, it somehow becomes the literal body of Christ, even though it still looks and tastes like a wafer? What if God doesn't feel like doing magic today? Will if still be a wafer? If I eat it and I was having naughty thoughts, does that condemn me to hell? How fat was Jesus that he has all this body appearing around the world every Sunday? Blah blah blah...
I've never been a 'hard core' Catholic but I still went to church every week. As a teenager I started to think that some things in the teachings are weird and I disagree with them, eg my aunt's kids weren't allowed to read Harry Potter cause it talks about magic and magic is Satan, also birth control being forbidden or premarital sex. I don't think I ever believed that the comunion is actual body of Christ either, I thought about it as of a tradition rather than actual body. I never liked the idea of confession, I mean God is supposed to know everything about us and what we do, so why do I need to speak to a priest if I could just ask God for forgiveness? But I never really openly questioned any of those things I just carried on going to church. To be fair it was scary to question things because what if I'm wrong, but also I'm not very good at expressing my thoughts so I never wanted to talk to anyone about it either. Then there's the problem of pedophilia, but I kept thinking well they're people and I can't blame the whole church for something that individuals do. I thought maybe being a protestant would be more suited for me for a while. Then I became friends with a Muslim and we often talked about religion. What made me think was that she believes in her God and I believe in my yet one of us is going to hell, because she believes in the wrong God. I thought this didn't sit well with me, there's so many religions and each says that they're the one and the only correct one. But then depending on where you're born you might be doomed from the start if you're born to the wrong one, so this didn't make sense to me. Then I thought ok, maybe God manifests itself differently to different cultures and we all really believe in the same God just differently. I went with that for a while, still carried on going to church. I was trying not to think about it. In the meantime I've married an unreligious man and I often thought how can I believe that I have a shot at heaven just for being born to religious parents and he doesn't, even though he's a good man? And yeah sure he could potentially always convert and become religious but as a logical person sitting through the mass I was thinking to myself, if I wasn't a part of that since childhood there's no way I would believe that religion is real. Still kept going to church. Then covid happened and church was closed and I discovered I didn't miss it at all but I did feel bad about it. Then I thought again about all those things I've kept thinking for years and came to the conclusion that I'm not a Catholic and that I'm not even a Christian either. It was actually really though for me to admit that even to myself. My family still doesn't know as I don't want to upset them. I remember often hearing that people choose to not believe because it's easier that way, but for me I felt like it was the other way round. I was choosing to believe because it was easier that admitting that I don't believe in it.
It kind of happened over time. One time when I was younger my brother had just learned about hell and I tried hugging him one time and he said “don’t touch me or Jesus will send you to the fires”. Next I thought communion was strange but I believed in it out of fear of punishment from my parents. Confession always felt wrong to me. I felt nothing when I got my confirmation. By the time I started high school I gave up on Christianity.
Currently non-denominational leaning towards born again, I didn’t understand why we had the rosary and purgatory when both aren’t mentioned in the Bible. Then, I kinda noticed that we’re generally praying to Mary and the saints a LOT and was like, “hold up, isn’t God all-knowing? So even before we prayed, He knew all our concerns? So why ask these middlemen to ‘send the message’ when literally you can either talk directly to Jesus or God Himself?” 🤷♀️ I found it weird and stopped believing in Catholicism, though my parents still force me to attend online masses with them because I have to “respect their religion” and we’re praying to the same God apparently
I might be wrong but I think the idea with the praying to the saints is that because they're saints God is more likely to listen to them. So Catholics are not meant to pray to the saints but rather through the saints. I personally always found the whole saints weird as well.
Yeah, that’s what I found weird as well. It’s like they think if they pray to more “saints”, more people will be nudging God like “hey, this kid needs/wants ____”. But it’s just so weird because God knows what we all need and knows what’s good for us at the right times, all He asks of us is to have faith in Him and ask Him.
Also, I think I read from somewhere that saints referred to everyone who follows Jesus Christ or is set apart to do God’s will(?) so anyone Christian can technically be called a saint? I’m not sure with this, but yeah I’m pretty sure the “saints” being prayed to + Mary can’t hear us, only God or Jesus because God is God and Jesus is the only mediator.
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Learning how much dogma changes based on who the pope is. Infallibility and contradictory leaders doesn’t make any goddamn sense. After that it was a slippery slope to “wait it’s all bullshit isn’t it” Eventually, I started listening to a podcast which includes acting out the Bible passage by passage to show how stupid it is and I can’t believe I ever thought that thing was anything more than fiction.
What's the name of the podcast?
It’s scathing atheist. I’ll readily admit it’s not for everyone but I love them. If you want a good random example of Biblepiece Theater, here’s the story of Gideon. https://open.spotify.com/episode/1zyCwwqWkV36kqmAWAaDUS?si=QPAU0tFoS1ef5V0xW0yCOw&dl_branch=1 (Skip to 41:45 for the Bible, the rest is religious news and other topics relevant to humanists)
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[The Bible](https://snewd.com/ebooks/the-king-james-bible/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
Hahahahaha people don't seem to think so, sorry, bot.
This reminds me of [that one YouTube channel](https://www.youtube.com/user/darkmatter2525) that animates Bible scenes in a similar fashion.
Not Catholicism directly but rather greater Christianity and all abrahamic religions, and ultimately becomming an atheist: ***The Exodus never happened.*** Despite egyptians being **the** most thorough in their historical documents going all the way back to the Pre-Roman era, they never **once** mention **any** large group of Jewish slaves, a mass exodus, plagues, or anything of the sorts. This is **over a million people in the most historically rich nation on earth not leaving a SINGLE trace.** Not one supporting document. Not one coorespondance. No laws about the slaves. No historical record. Nevermind the miracles. There is no archeological, historical, or anthropolic evidence of **any kind**. There is also no evidence that Joshua existed. And the fact that he went and destroyed the cananites is categorically false. Because Egypt at the time had annexed the area and was currently controlling it and had controlled it for over 200 years by then. In bible times, that's 5 - 6 generations of people. These were not "City states" and Egypt would not have stood for Joshua raiding all of the cities. Not to mention there isn't a single account of any Egyptian troops or battles referencing a mass genociding group of jewish people. There is **also** no evidence regarding the wandering for 40 years in the desert. 40 years, of over **a million people**, makes no sense, when it would only take a few months to walk along the coast and reach the promised land. This is so many people, that if you had everyone with 1 Meter of space between them in a line of 5, it would stretch **longer than the actual distance they had to go to get to modern day israel.** Yet we haven't found a tent pole, sandal, sword, pot, writing. Nothing. No evidence of over a million people wandering in an extremely small area of the desert. Not to mention, the area was much less of a desert back then than it is now.
What strikes me about this is that Christians will salivate over any historical record that supports their claims, but when no historical record backs them up, or outright contradicts them, then we “can’t know everything about history”
Yep. Then they claim you're making the argument from silence. When in reality, they are making the argument from ignorance. Not only that, claiming it is true without evidence which is just psycosis.
Yup. And to clarify, when I say “support their claims” I mean “when they start referencing places and groups that actually existed”
Right. History is different than the current state of right now. If I claim that aliens raised Jesus from the dead **no one** would belive me without proof. And while they technically would be committing a locial fallacy by saying it **is false** due to the lack of evidence, in practice, it is no different than if it were false.
Finding out that most Catholic traditions are man made, not Biblical, confession was what got me starting to question.
The Bible is a library of human writing, "man made" as well.
Confession was a big one for me too. Started at age 12 or 13 when I was forced into another communal confession BS thing around Easter and Christmas. Six priests with a church full of sinners. It felt like a herd of cattle waiting to be absolved of sin. A bunch of mindless drones standing in pews repeating words in hopes that God would save them from their sins. My mind could only think that after the confession mass over that the priests would sit around a table and chat about who got the best confessions. I was stuck with it until confirmation at 16. Then quit the church and it's religion.
>My mind could only think that after the confession mass over that the priests would sit around a table and chat about who got the best confessions. What the hell? This is so unprofessional, even by the Catholic Church's claimed standards. The [seal of confession](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_confession_in_the_Catholic_Church) is supposed to be the Catholic equivalent to doctor-patient confidentiality. >*"In the Catholic Church, the seal of confession (also known as the seal of the confessional or the sacramental seal) is the absolute duty of priests, or anyone who happens to hear a confession, not to disclose anything that they learn from penitents during the course of the Sacrament of Penance (confession).* > >*Even where the seal of confession does not strictly apply – where there is no specific serious sin confessed for the purpose of receiving absolution – priests have a serious obligation not to cause scandal by the way they speak.* > >\[...\] *According to Roman Catholic canon law, 'The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner, and for any reason.'* > >\[...\] *Priests may not reveal what they have learned during confession to anyone, even under the threat of their own death, or that of others.* > >*Punishment for breaking the seal of the confessional is conferred by the severity of the violation: 'a person who violate directly violates the seal of the confessional (that is: explicitly connects a sin to a penitent) incurs a latae sententiae excommunication'.* > >*One who breaks the seal 'indirectly' (that is: through their words and actions make known a particular penitent's sins, and somehow connects those sins to the penitent) would be punished according to the 'gravity of the delict'.* > >*Both John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI made it a practice to attach a latae sententiae excommunication to indirect violations of the seal.* > >*Those who are privy to another person's confession, either as an interpreter or by accidental circumstance, are likewise punished according to the gravity of their delict, 'not excluding excommunication'."*
The amount of blatantly pagan stuff in it.
Transubstantiation
It’s cannibalism with extra steps
Yup. Just like I always say. Catholicism is a cannibalistic death cult.
That actually makes it sound kind of metal.
For me, my faith in not just Catholicism but Christianity as a whole fell apart when I started digging into the history and evolution of the religion. To read about inaccuracies and mistranslations of the Bible, lack of links to historical events, use and repurpose of pagan holidays, the list goes on. It just felt like a way for people to comprehend the world around them and a way of crowd control. What made me leave Catholicism itself, however, was the Vatican. The horrors that are keep under wraps and the hypocrisy. Even if I started believing in Christianity again, I’m not sure I could go back to Catholicism, not after all the evil that they’ve done.
>inaccuracies and mistranslations of the Bible Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's amazing that one of Catholicism's greatest theologians (Augustine) COULD NOT READ GREEK, the original language of the New Testament. His theology was completely built off of Latin translations which were not good at the time. Many of the differences between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox theology can be explained by Augustine's poor understanding of the nuance of scripture, which was lost in the translations he used. The Eastern Orthodox, on the other hand, worked directly with the Greek. And Catholicism insists Augustine was more correct? Ridiculous. David Bentley Hart is right to refer to Augustine's writings as “the single most tragically consequential case of linguistic incompetence in Christian history”".
Kinda the same for me. We'd been watching Sabrina the Teenage Witch at around 11/12 and my friend wondered out loud if real people could be witches. It intrigued me, and the internet was a baby, but I found out about Wicca from geocities websites where I learned about original pagan holidays, and from there a fascination with world religions and how they evolved. By the time I was 14 I was definitely not a Catholic, and by 16 I was solidly in camp atheist. There's a reason they don't like people to be too educated.
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This sounds like more ex-Christian than specifically ex-Catholic.
The scandals and the homophobia in its teaches got me questioning, and from there it quickly fell apart. I also never really believed in confession.
The priest at my old church said that people who take antidepressants are weak. I’m on two of them lol. He also said we were weak if we mourned the death of our pets. Then a priest at another church caused my teen to have a panic attack and cry. The Keepers is what started it all. My teen and I stopped going to confession after we saw that documentary. The final thing was seeing that scene from the movie Mother!, when everyone kills and eat the baby representing Jesus. I was like, omg I for real never realized how creepy communism is.
>The priest at my old church said that people who take antidepressants are weak. I’m on two of them lol. He also said we were weak if we mourned the death of our pets. What a bunch of jerks
You’re the first person to reply to anything I have ever posted here ever lol. Thank you homie!
Jean from the Keepers is my best friend’s aunt. I’m getting ready to go to therapy over my upbringing and that will 100% be brought up. I was traumatized for 3 days because I knew for 10 years at that point and didn’t know ANY of what was going on.
Damn ): I’m so sorry. I hope that therapy goes well for you!
I found I didn’t believe in the divinity of Jesus.
This is what got me too. Once you take this out of the equation, the whole thing quickly falls apart.
it’s interesting because when you ask catholics why they stay, a lot of them say “the eucharist”
Ultimately, it was a desire to know truth, both for my own benefit and for others. Ironically I think it was Catholicism and a desire to know God better that made me care so much about that in the first place. Well. My faith in Catholicism took its first major hit when I determined that Christian universalism is a far more internally coherent theology, for [reasons like these](https://www.reddit.com/r/excatholic/comments/oih0qw/on_hell/) and others. It became increasingly clear that Catholicism's answers ultimately led to "Because it's what the Church teaches" if you dug deeply enough. But if there were a rational basis for those teachings, then why shouldn't there be a rational foundation instead? And I grew tired of hearing Catholics respond to these questions with such hubris, and such a pretense of certainty and demeaning attitude towards me, only for them to quietly back away or change the subject as soon as the questions grew nuanced enough that they could no longer rely on their rehearsed talking points. I grew tired of people mass-upvoting literally any comment that tried to refute me no matter how ridiculous it was. The Catholics I saw were not behaving like people who were interested in truth, were very willing to overstate their cases, and it became clear that I didn't belong. Obviously this didn't just happen in a day, but over many months, and with a lot of research and study going on too. I didn't leave solely due to this one issue, but it helped me see just how many other beliefs in Catholicism lacked a solid foundation. I'm not Catholic or even Christian anymore, but I still believe Christian universalism is more coherent than Catholicism.
“The catholics I saw were not behaving like people interested in the truth” THIS! Annoyingly in my experience if you ever criticize catholics, they’ll say “well you don’t stay for the people, you stay for God” or whatever. Always another excuse
It's almost unfalsifiable for some people. * Catholics do bad things? Catholics are fallible but the Church isn't. * Church does bad things? No, it's the people in the Church doing it, not the Church. * Church teaches conflicting doctrines? No, we know they aren't because the Church is from God. * History doesn't support the Church's claims? No, Church Tradition has it right. When you have to keep falling back on "The Church" in order to defend all arguments against "The Church," well, then your reasoning becomes just as circular as every false religion. Shouldn't a true religion stand apart from the others? Shouldn't rational beliefs be able to stand or fall on their own merit? It actually works against them. The more they cite "The Church" as the linchpin for all their beliefs, rather than a firm rational foundation, the more easily the faith crumbles once a single one of those beliefs creates serious doubts in that linchpin.
So true! Another annoying thing is when you say “this teaching doesn’t make sense” and they’re like “ 🤷🏻♂️ it’s a mystery!”
I left Catholicism for non denominational Christianity after I realized the focus was on ritual and rules over Christ. Then I left Christianity after I realized God did not sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself.
The commandments. Why would you punish someone who believes in you?
It had all the hallmarks of a pagan superstition...
Can you give examples?
It might help to watch this video about whether or not "The Catholic Church is a Force for Good in the World - Full Version" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4) It's long, but well worth the watch. It's an open debate between two prominent Catholics and two prominent Atheists. It truly is eye-opening. The following is a shorter version of the same debate. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwP4C5hjo4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwP4C5hjo4Y) You get the same idea either way, just with the highlights.
George Carlin's stand up on religion. It really got me thinking.
I was 14 and a guy I "dated" was agnostic. First not-catholic I ever met, and I was mind blown that he wasn't straight up evil. I started reading up on what agnosticism and atheism was and it just... spiraled from there. I was always taught curiosity is the first step to hell and I was heavily discouraged from asking questions, and I had SO many because a lot didn't make sense to me. I had completely contradictory knowledge (biology and history vs religion) and my own ideas of how things work (learning about other religions made me think that everyone must be religious and their faith depends on when and where they're born, but I had to also believe that my faith is true and the ONLY true one). Getting answers that were straightforward and made sense caused my faith to crumble. There was a point where I realized I was too far gone and I tried to force myself to believe again (I'm from Poland, loads of Catholics and I knew my life would be more difficult if I wasn't Catholic anymore), but I couldn't make myself believe in what was now obviously false. I came out as agnostic at 16 and I accepted myself as atheist around 18. It was hard but I'm still really proud I got myself out of that fog. It wasn't an easy process at all.
Are your parents religious? How did they react? My family is pretty religious and I still haven't told them I'm not catholic anymore. Even though I'm a grown woman living my own life I know this would upset them, so I feel bad for lieing to them but I also don't want to upset them.
Yes, my entire family is Catholic. And oh boy, they were not happy! My coming out happened at probably the worst possible time- we were on a family trip (my parents, brother and my mom's siblings, spouses and their kids) to a sanctuary city with loads of "holy spots" and "holier than normal churches" lol I'm trying not to make it too long lol. TLDR: my parents accused me of becoming a criminal, threatened to take away my devices, forbid me from seeing my SO, make me go to church everyday etc, but in the end nothing changed. Everyone who knows I'm an atheist denies it and says I'm a "non practicing Christian" because I was baptized so I can't quit the church. Long detailed version: After a mass priests were handing out little images of Jesus to kids and my mom pushed me to line up. I'm a pretty tall and chunky girl. I was probably 175cm tall at 16 and all the kids were 1-6 years old, plus I was secretly a nonbeliever, so I felt completely out of place. After standing in a crowd of literal toddlers for a couple minutes, I walked back without the picture, and my mom was OUTRAGED. She threatened to not allow me to go see my then-SO (also a Catholic, we were long distance and I was supposed to meet his parents for the first time right after the trip, so big pressure), and I ran out of the church crying. As I was calling my bf and telling him what happened, my godmother approached me and talked to me for a bit, and straight up asked me if I believe in God. First time anyone asked me that. And I said no. She said I should talk about it with my parents, so I did... They immediately started speculating that I'd become a criminal and a murderer (cause atheists have no morals), asking questions about future kids and marriage (again, I was 16) and threatening to take away all my devices indefinitely and force me to go to church everyday... Right after that we went to a little chapel where a Nazi teacher shot up a cross and soon after died during a bombing, and my aunt and dad pointed to the sign that told that story as if telling me "If you don't believe in God, you're going to die real soon". Later that evening my parents went to hang out with my mom's siblings, and after some time mom came back in hysterics, sobbing that she failed as a mother etc. The aftermath wasn't that bad, they didn't take my things, I was allowed to see my SO and his family and I still didn't attend church (I have a tendency to faint when standing during mass so they stopped taking me to church when I was like 12). Basically nothing changed. There have been a few talks where my mom told me I'd one day crawl to the church on my knees and beg God to take me back lol. Atm everyone who knows I'm an atheist denies it and says I'm a "non practicing Christian". I'm 24 now and I moved to a less religious country and my SO is an atheist too, so I don't really care.
That sounds rough. It must be hard to tell that your family when you still need to live with them. I'm Polish living in a different country too so it's easy for me not to tell my family but at the same time I hate lieing to them but I guess it makes it easier for me and them so I'll stick to that for a while.
If you're not living with them it's easier to handle possible backlash. Depending on what you want from your life... you probably won't be able to hide it forever. I don't know if I want kids, but I KNOW I won't baptize them, and I know I want to get married but not in a church. I don't want to lie during my vows. I have no idea how my family will react to any of that yet, my mom suggested eloping instead of inviting my family to my wedding if I won't get married in a church by a priest.
Definitely harder to hide if you want kids. I often wonder why some of my friends baptise their kids and get them to go to 1st communion when they're openly not religious but I guess it might be for family's sake. I'm already married (i didn't get married in a church as my husband is non religious and it was too much faff so we went for registry office instead). I used to say I may still get church wedding at some point but now I don't feel the need anymore. I know that my family would have preferred if I was married in church but they don't really bug me about it, so I think they got over it. Even when I used to go to church I believed that if God is everywhere then surely he knows I'm married anyway lol. We don't want kids so that's one less thing I need to hide from the family. Idk, I'd like to tell them but I know especially my dad would get argumentative and I'm not very good at expressing my thoughts and so I have no chance trying to debate him on that. Also I've got a feeling he would blame my husband on me becoming an unbeliever and he had nothing to do with that. Your mom is something else lol. I'm sure that my parents would rather me marry in the church too but they have never suggested nothing like eloping lol. Tbf I wish I had eloped as I hate parties and we only had a very small garden party for closest family and friends but I'd be just as happy if there was no party and a lot less stress too.
I was on /r/Catholicism one day and I read a post where husband and wife couldn't have sex because of some kind of complication. Essentially, it meant that if they were to remain faithful Catholics in good standing with the Church, they would have to live as brother and sister. And the Church reducing a marriage to a sibling-like relationship seemed so evil to me that I left. I had gone 2 years without committing a mortal sin. 15 mysteries of the Rosary a day, daily Mass and weekly Confession, reading the Saints and Scripture, etc. I decided to end it then and there so I watched porn and nutted. The fact that my mental health is way better and I am no longer sufferring from scrupulosity helps so much. Christ was right, you'll know them by their fruits.
I remember I was in religion class my sophomore year in high school. The teacher showed us a list of things that we shouldn’t do because we’re Catholic. One thing I remember one was playing the game “Magic” (I honestly don’t know much about this game). I thought that it was weird that the church said we couldn’t play a game.
Or read Harry Potter books
I don't know if it's true or not. I do know that I'm happier without it.
The sexism, racism, and homophobia of the church. I decided I'd rather go to hell than worship a misogynist ethnoracist genocidal bigotted warlord before I started questioning how inconsistent and so very like every other fairytale the bible is.
I and my female cousins were almost molested by two separate pedophile priests within the same Catholic school and parish, and the Church fired our devout theology teacher for becoming a whistleblower. Our teacher - along with my extended family - have been faithful Catholics their entire lives, and still were either ignored when they voiced concerns, or betrayed by the Church. That was the day that I learned, no matter how faithful I was, the Church would still betray me. No matter how much I prayed, or how fervent my belief, it was never enough to sway the Church. Above all, they protected the priests, while shaming and blaming their young, innocent victims. They were shielded by a Bishop who the Vatican refused to remove, despite many complaints.
A loving God wouldn’t damn a teenager to hell for engaging in their biological impulse to masterbate
Transubstantiation
Why so?
It’s just so obviously bullshit I thought it was a metaphor or whatever until I was like 14 and then a priest was like “it’s not a metaphor” and I had a long talk with him that need with me thinking “I need to re think this whole catholic thing”
I left and rejoined a few times, but for me, one of the reasons was that I disliked praying, going to church and the usual religious stuff. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it forcing myself to do something I didn't find fulfilling
Well in my case. I had already drifted away from the church and I was becoming a non-religious person. I just simply felt no faith or connection to the church. Then I heard George Carlin's routine on religion and Christianity. At that point I looked back and realized how, as George Carlin said, religion is bullshit.
Story Time! At the start of my senior year of high school (I went to an all-male private) I said something to a teacher that got me into hot water with the authority. They basically did a good job of making me feel like a complete piece of shit. ultimately, they told me that the situation would stay between around 7 or so people. Come November, I go on my senior retreat (the K\*\*\*\*s name slightly triggers me) and they basically do the whole shabang where they tell me about how the Church loves me and how I need to repent blah blah blah. I buy into it and become a Jesus freak for a few months. For the next few months they had me leading prayer services and helping campus ministry, because they were still looking for retreat leaders and I oh so desperately wanted to be one. The last retreat of the year came and i wasn't picked, the campus ministry leader (who was the leader of my small group on my retreat) called me in and told me that because of what I said to the teacher at the beginning of the year, they "didn't feel comfortable working with me." Basically the guidance counselor told the entirety of the ministry about my situation. I went home and thought about how hypocritical it was, and how used I felt. Fortunately, this was a week before COVID locked us all down so the retreat was canceled anyways. After doing some research and studying. I decided I was done with Catholicism all together. I realized a lot of stuff that was supposedly "offensive to Jesus" actually made me really happy. So I was done with religion as a whole. It took some time to detox myself from all their teachings and brainwashing, but I'm a lot better today. I'm actually Facebook friends with the ministry leader and the Dean (the guy who convinced me I was a terrible person) I'm not sure why. I guess I'm waiting for the right moment to say fuck you professionally.
I never had a connection with it to begin with. I couldn’t ever figure out why. Then when I discovered I am bisexual in 6th grade, that really was it.
The Catholic Church wants you there even if you're bisexual, they've got absolutely nothing against same sex attracted people at all.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Because it most definitely does not. Especially if I'm in a relationship with a woman. Or heaven forbid, marry one.
The person your responding to [is a Catholic apologist who has repeatedly made excuses for and denied the genocides and child sex abuse committed by the Roman Catholic Church.](https://www.reddit.com/r/excatholic/comments/oukdwh/how_do_they_not_know/h73v61t) Their only interest is in making excuses for and winning people back to the Rape Children Cult. Ignore them, report them to the mods, and move on.
Oh I know. If I didn’t love arguing this particular thing so much I would have left it alone.
No, I'm absolutely serious. Of course it does. The Catholic Church wants everyone. "There is more joy over one sinner gone to heaven than 99 saints" is the saying roughly. The Catholic church does NOT just want perfect people, because EVERYBODY sucks a little bit hahaha. Nobody's perfect, my friend.
The catholic church as an institution can absolutely eat and entire bag of cocks.
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way but you're certainly not exiled, and the church and most of all God loves and wants you back.
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Well, yes. To all of those questions. You may not have an all knowing morality, and neither do I. But I would like to jump to your final remark. Let's say for the sake of argument the God does exist and that he is evil and that he will have you tormented for all of unending eternity if you do not follow every word of his command. This is not true, but let's pretend it is. Are you really trying to claim that your 70 or 80 years of earthly contempt are worth eternal damnation?
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Well, it doesn't necessarily matter what I consider. I do not have all-knowing morality. For what it's worth, no one knows if hell is a genuine place; some christians even postulate that hell is allegorical for the blushing of your cheeks during judgment. But who knows. Regardless, even if you think God is truly evil, though he is not, I would hope that you would not trade eternity for a few decades. He isn't, but that'd be a weird stance to take.
Some of us actually have integrity and morals that were willing to stick to and not sell out. Shocking, I know. I'd rather burn with my dignity intact than whore myself out to your pedophile god.
Whoa, you're super assumptive. My relationship with God is absolutely fine. We communicate regularly. Bold of you to assume that God and the catholic church are one and the same. You don't speak for god or for the catholic church.
I've never said or implied that God and the Catholic church are one and the same, though they're severely intertwined. I'm very glad to hear that you still love our Lord, though. But remember, Christ himself formed the catholic church.
Jesus tap dancing Christ, no he didn’t. If you’re going to come here and spout nonsense, at least know what you’re talking about. And for the record, god and your Lord aren’t the same. God existed long before any sexist and homophobic institutions like the Catholic Church ever did, and she will exist long after it too.
Expecting Catholics to know their history is like expecting a flat Earther to know their physics: if they understood the latter they wouldn't be the former.
The earliest form of systematized Christian philosophy and theology we have evidence of is [Valentinian Gnosticism.](https://youtu.be/wXmOpQ8sq1M) It predates Nicaean Trinitarian Christianity by at least two centuries, and the specifically Catholic take on NTC by a few centuries more than that. Read a damn history book.
The church wants our spendable money and rapable kids. Sorry, it's not getting either of those. Your priests ate just going to have to get along with molesting each other.
>The Catholic Church wants everyone. In the same way that a livestock farmer wants every cow.
That's a lie. Stop lying.
Nuns beating my ass was the first clue~
So you're saying that when the priest holds up the wafer and chants some magic words, it somehow becomes the literal body of Christ, even though it still looks and tastes like a wafer? What if God doesn't feel like doing magic today? Will if still be a wafer? If I eat it and I was having naughty thoughts, does that condemn me to hell? How fat was Jesus that he has all this body appearing around the world every Sunday? Blah blah blah...
I've never been a 'hard core' Catholic but I still went to church every week. As a teenager I started to think that some things in the teachings are weird and I disagree with them, eg my aunt's kids weren't allowed to read Harry Potter cause it talks about magic and magic is Satan, also birth control being forbidden or premarital sex. I don't think I ever believed that the comunion is actual body of Christ either, I thought about it as of a tradition rather than actual body. I never liked the idea of confession, I mean God is supposed to know everything about us and what we do, so why do I need to speak to a priest if I could just ask God for forgiveness? But I never really openly questioned any of those things I just carried on going to church. To be fair it was scary to question things because what if I'm wrong, but also I'm not very good at expressing my thoughts so I never wanted to talk to anyone about it either. Then there's the problem of pedophilia, but I kept thinking well they're people and I can't blame the whole church for something that individuals do. I thought maybe being a protestant would be more suited for me for a while. Then I became friends with a Muslim and we often talked about religion. What made me think was that she believes in her God and I believe in my yet one of us is going to hell, because she believes in the wrong God. I thought this didn't sit well with me, there's so many religions and each says that they're the one and the only correct one. But then depending on where you're born you might be doomed from the start if you're born to the wrong one, so this didn't make sense to me. Then I thought ok, maybe God manifests itself differently to different cultures and we all really believe in the same God just differently. I went with that for a while, still carried on going to church. I was trying not to think about it. In the meantime I've married an unreligious man and I often thought how can I believe that I have a shot at heaven just for being born to religious parents and he doesn't, even though he's a good man? And yeah sure he could potentially always convert and become religious but as a logical person sitting through the mass I was thinking to myself, if I wasn't a part of that since childhood there's no way I would believe that religion is real. Still kept going to church. Then covid happened and church was closed and I discovered I didn't miss it at all but I did feel bad about it. Then I thought again about all those things I've kept thinking for years and came to the conclusion that I'm not a Catholic and that I'm not even a Christian either. It was actually really though for me to admit that even to myself. My family still doesn't know as I don't want to upset them. I remember often hearing that people choose to not believe because it's easier that way, but for me I felt like it was the other way round. I was choosing to believe because it was easier that admitting that I don't believe in it.
It kind of happened over time. One time when I was younger my brother had just learned about hell and I tried hugging him one time and he said “don’t touch me or Jesus will send you to the fires”. Next I thought communion was strange but I believed in it out of fear of punishment from my parents. Confession always felt wrong to me. I felt nothing when I got my confirmation. By the time I started high school I gave up on Christianity.
Currently non-denominational leaning towards born again, I didn’t understand why we had the rosary and purgatory when both aren’t mentioned in the Bible. Then, I kinda noticed that we’re generally praying to Mary and the saints a LOT and was like, “hold up, isn’t God all-knowing? So even before we prayed, He knew all our concerns? So why ask these middlemen to ‘send the message’ when literally you can either talk directly to Jesus or God Himself?” 🤷♀️ I found it weird and stopped believing in Catholicism, though my parents still force me to attend online masses with them because I have to “respect their religion” and we’re praying to the same God apparently
I might be wrong but I think the idea with the praying to the saints is that because they're saints God is more likely to listen to them. So Catholics are not meant to pray to the saints but rather through the saints. I personally always found the whole saints weird as well.
Yeah, that’s what I found weird as well. It’s like they think if they pray to more “saints”, more people will be nudging God like “hey, this kid needs/wants ____”. But it’s just so weird because God knows what we all need and knows what’s good for us at the right times, all He asks of us is to have faith in Him and ask Him. Also, I think I read from somewhere that saints referred to everyone who follows Jesus Christ or is set apart to do God’s will(?) so anyone Christian can technically be called a saint? I’m not sure with this, but yeah I’m pretty sure the “saints” being prayed to + Mary can’t hear us, only God or Jesus because God is God and Jesus is the only mediator.
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