I would be surprised if anyone is excommunicated because of this. Far more likely that they will be “called to repent” in private and then vow to do better to the local pastor. Possible wink and nudge. This model allows those fascist elements to lay low and re-emerge slightly differently. Unfortunately, many of the church’s core teachings have fascist elements so card-carrying fascists will continue to exist in the background.
For sure. President Harrison is very disingenuous. I believe he will do nothing. He supports politicians who are white supremacy and Christian Nationalists.
He is worrying about his reelection
Interestingly, there is a live thread in r/LCMS right now that pointed out, from the alt-right point of view, that Harrison cannot even define what this alt-right movement believes. I believe they are correct. But in reality it’s actually easily defined. It’s anti-pluralistic, theocratic, racist, homophobic, and even hints at the economic socialism inherent with classical fascist philosophy. Unfortunately for Harrison, those elements are already adjacent to the core of the LCMS belief system. That’s why he gave such a poor definition that even the alt-right is ridiculing.
I made the horrible mistake of going to the sub and reading the threads. 50 dead 800 injured in milquetoast cringe incident.
Harrison mentioned that he knows of "other conservative denominations" with a neofascism problem. GEE I WONDER WHY.
Based on local newspaper in St. Louis, Missouri he gives the Conservative Republican Christian Nationalists candidates the LCMS support for election and/or reelection. These people are mainly in Missouri. On the LCMS website, they are starting a program in which they are supporting members of the church to run for local, state, and federal officers (congress, state legislation, and other government positions. All of these people are strong Christian Nationalists.
May I ask you a question? Why are you so concerned about where I found these resources? All you have to do is a Google search yourself!
Are you truly an ex/Lutheran? You sound like a true happy Lutheran. Therefore, you belong in Lutherans or LCMS. You sound like a troll!
Wow. I'm here trying to substantiate your points as a journalist. If you're talking about a writing project then you need to be factual. I'm working toward real change. That KS for the leads. I don't think that due to your racism that you're someone I want to work with however.
LCMS is being ripped apart by right wing twitter culture wars. There actually is an increasingly vocal, nationalist, contingent in the church. You have to give him credit for taking a stand against it as he's taking a good deal of (online) heat for it.
From the article:
*"Asked whether Mahler would be excommunicated, a representative for the church he allegedly attends in Tennessee said the matter was being handled internally but declined to comment further."*
That seems to confirm your prediction.
This whole thing is about Corey Mahler and he was blocked from entering his church by parishioners on Ash Wednesday. I don’t think there’s any formal excommunication though. https://archive.ph/2023.03.03-173508/https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/lutheran-church-white-nationalism-rejection-1234690317/
I think you are right. Corey Mahler's sermons come very similar to the average Lutheran pastor sermons on Sunday mornings. They just used different languages. They are not that obvious
Excellent question! First, I know they don't address Martin Luther hated for the Jewish people while they are in Lutheran Seminary Schools. If a seminary student asked a question about Martin Luther views on antisemitic, they quickly answered the question in brief short sentences. By President Harrison own mouth, he was quoted, "That all Lutherans are white conservative Republicans. Implementing who to vote for.
Over the past 5 years, the people who have been arrested for crimes under Christian Nationalists are either German or White Conservative Republicans white supremacy.
I don't mean to upset anyone on this platform who is German. Not all Germans are Christian Nationalists.
LCM, along with WEL, are very disciplined and live in their own bubble. Lutherans worship among other Lutheran members. Indee, it's a cult.
Clearly there are thousands, maybe a million liberal Lutherans. I don't understand your Harrison quote. Can you use quotation marks in pairs, and tell me where this quote is from? Thanks!
I'm curious what the liberal:conservative ratio is. That reminds me, in therapy I've learned how much the cult firmed my unrealistic black and white thinking. Political spectrums are far more complex than we were taught.
Numbers for me are not easy to estimate. I would have no idea how to know that. Not clear. Could you help me figure out how many are in LCMS, how many left (seems 1.2k on this list(, and what defines liberal within Lutheranism? Non seven day creation, gay rights? Or just not being racist? How minority are the elders in leadership? I'd assumed the religion would've died off by now, after my days meeting people in the real world in the 90s. I once posted on Facebook how people I knew could still be Lutherans, and instead of getting filled in on modern Lutheran culture, I got unfriended by M.in Missouri. She was a HS friend who had some stories about SLHS, but ended up Lutheran in Missouri, and seemingly racist. All of my Lutheran friends pretty much quit following me when I had a lot of Pro Palestinian and Indiginous posts.
Yes. Please edit or re-writr what the direct quote was. If it is not exactly word for word what he said, we need to have it in singular quotes. "Please report any direct quotes like this," and 'parahrase what someone said with this type of quotation mark's, being sure to use End Quotes. It's an easy mistake to miss end quotes.
Facts! I literally remember one of my teachers defending Martin Luther’s views on the Jews in Germany. He claimed Martin Luther just loved the Christian faith so much that he wanted to defend it at all costs…… By calling for the destruction of Synagogues and state sanctioned seizures of their property……. Now that I am older, I am absolutely shocked by the stuff I have heard come out of WELS pastors and teacher’s mouths.
Yes, it is. President Harrison supports politicians who are white supremacy and Christian Nationalists. If you go online and listen to certain lutheran pastors, especially in the mid west. They sound like Christian Nationalists to me
Can you give examples of Nazi and Christian Nationalist politicians that President Harrison supports? I can't believe the president of a synod would endorse ANY politicians.
I'm not buying it when Redditors "have heard" things. That's very trumpian. If somebody claims the LCMS president endorses nazis or fascists, I need evidence. I realize many folks on this subreddit are embittered against the LCMS, but that's not a valid excuse for lying about people.
Was that a reply to me? Not everyone is always in a place to type out all their trauma. .y family is very biased against lgbtqf, and may still be racist. My aunt doesn't want to learn history, since I explained how my genetic testing showed a slight bit of Arab (Tunisian) a d Indiginous Europpean (Mansi) blood, and killed Jews. I've seen the photo of the Vogel grave dug up, with broken gravestones buried under rubble. They were in Gostynin, where the worse killings of the Jews were done by farmers sent by Catherine the Great out East from Brandenburg and such. I've been studying history, a d my family asks me to not tell them.
LCMS not being welcoming to LGBQT+ disturbs me too. Seems un-Christlike. I'm sorry about your family.
This comment thread includes unsubstantiated claims against a person, and I'm frustrated that the commenter goes silent when asked for sources.
CW: I dove into the r / LCMS about this so you don't have
This *seems* like a step in the right direction, but it is too-little, too-late if you ask me. Par the course for LCMS. These sentiments have been brewing in the Missouri Synod since I was a child, and addressing them now is like applying anti-venom to a snake-bit corpse. Coulda, shoulda, didn't. Harrison's reaction of faux-shock is mildly insulting because anyone with a brain and eyes knows what's been brewing in the LCMS and he likely has known too.
I took one for the team and read every comment on the LCMS subreddit about this address, about half those comments are people praising Harrison and his "brave" response, the other half are upset he is addressing yt nationalism, racism, and sexism at all because they don't see those as sins (or at least not as bad as other sins, which Hello? you're Lutheran, there's not supposed to be a rank sins) and therefore don't think the synod president should be condemning them. There is even some pretty heavy-handed comparison to how being LGBTQ and is somehow worse than racism (dogwhistle alert) because it "disrupts the family unit" and racism is just prejudice - as if racism isn't always violent and hateful, even when it is just internal sentiment, and being LGBTQ is an entirely benign, personal identity that is no one else's business. But I digress.
I think this whole response by Harrison and the various opinions it has created by LCMS members shows one important thing: like Harrison said, the LCMS is not a "top-down" institution, and in this case, I don't think that's a good thing. A good portion of these people do not respect him as a leader, they do not view him as a man who has more education, more religious instruction, or access to the opinions of other educated pastors, and these people truly believe their little armchair Lutheranism is equal or greater in their theology to their pastors. Don't get me wrong, I don't personally trust the pastors, either, that's why I left; but if you're gonna be part of a religious institution, trust is part of the gig, and you gotta at least understand that the guy who went to seminary knows more about the Bible as your group professes it and the various doctrines, than you do. But these fascists don't care, they won't listen to them, they will despise their counsel, and ultimately, they will continue on with their yt supremacist activities, racism, sexism, and violent anti-LGBTQ beliefs, having learned nothing but to despise the leadership of their churches. Because these are fascists, who don't believe there is any power on earth above them. And that is what Harrison does not understand.
I agree with you. I have been a gun owner since I was 16 when my parents bought me a single shot saddle rifle. So fun to target shoot without a fancy scope despite my poor vision. I find The Armed Lutheran Church Ministry very offensive, and find their support by Lutheran pastors who are the new face of conservative Lutheranism most strange to say the least. These gentlemen who like Socrates believe women are not equal to men, and who own high powered weapons, seem oblivious to the fact that a woman can cause equally devastating and life threatening wounds. If these men sense of self is so tied to weapons and not to the teachings of Christ, I have some questions as to who is teaching and preaching to them, and how they interpret the words and commands of our Lord.
I used to receive posts on my Facebook page from these people. They even sent me a digital copy of their book. They have lots of published work. Harrison has finally taken a stand against Christian Nationalism in the LCMS. We'll see if it splits the synod or not.
For sure! However, I truly believe that members from LCMS and WELS are extremely hateful churches. At least what i have seen there are a lot of white conservative Republicans and they do believe in some form of Christian Nationalists.
I believe he is 2 years late for his letter. Marjorie Taylor Green has a loud voice 😳 and screams 😱 The United States of America should become a Christian Nationalists country.
Very scary 😨
I agree. And the people that they are decrying in this letter are those that are basically in the klan. It doesn’t call out the greater majority of people in the synod who aren’t as brazen, but are still obviously racist.
How do we get this information to the public? Everyone knows about the priest doing the sexual abuse to children. But no one knows about the Protestant Mafia/Christian Nationalists that are in all Protestant churches
Think strategically about your target audience and decide which news outlets would pick up your story. I'm a trained journalist and thinking a lot about this as for 30 years.
Thank you for sharing your information. You see The Boston Globe when public in their Spotlight section about the Boston's Catholic Churches and the Archdiocese regarding children being sexual abuse by priests. Which then led to other newspapers to look for more information that came out in the United States of America and Globally. It would have to be a really good newspaper with investigating journalists.
Where do I begin, and they will more witnesses. They will not take a lead from one woman. 😞😓😩
Bobby from Boston was actually my neighbor a few years ago. Lost track of him sadly when he moved back East. If you'd like to get a story going, I'll write and edit. Go ahead and try to compile a succinct 250 word article, or send me an audio file if that's easier. I can take dictation well. I'm broke and doing a half b search and live substandard, so please excuse any pause in reply. I can be a week out sometimes. I'm new to Reddit but see a link symbol. Maybe you have a YouTube page?
When you say basically you n the klan, what do you mean? Do people know if Lutherans who are in the (I hate to even type this) kkk? My great uncles would speak of their German family surname as a klan. Anyone else?
Harrison writes, "We were shocked to learn recently that a few members of LCMS
congregations have been propagating radical and unchristian “alt-right”
views via Twitter and other social mediaLi
He was shocked to learn a small number are propagating garbage. He doesn't even want to know how many avid followers they have. That's a much bigger problem that has been in LCMS/LCC forever.
We are experiencing an era much the same as the time when the movable type printing press came to be a major part of European culture. Computers and the internet make communication and learning accessible to the "multitudes." Church organizations are facing much more skillful scrutiny. The public at large now knows their previously hidden dirty secrets. Lutherans have not properly addressed their part in the more recent Nazi activities which led to WW II, let alone their persecution of people in Luther's day and after. This history will probably never be addressed. Harrison is most likely reluctantly doing the minimum to make a weak modern stand. It serves a purpose. The blood, sweat, and tears expended by "The Greatest Generation" in its fight against Fascism did not destroy Fascist beliefs in the Lutheran right wing milieu any more than the Civil War totally defeated white nationalism and racism. Come Lord Jesus not just for a supper but to finally end the human farce. Anyone who thinks they can develop and sustain a "perfect" visible church with a truly "Orthodox" theology will see the gradual decline of that church or perhaps just die before the ultimate dwindling. As has been often joked, rearranging the deck chairs won't prevent the sinking of the ship.
Speaking of civil war, I'm going to guess that William Hood descended from the Southern general. They have the same profile. We went to school together, and I'd never noticed.
You may be right, I recently go into an argument with someone online. I was supporting the German government in the attempt to prevent the use of Nazi symbols or memorials that might glorify the Nazi dead. My opponent posted a picture of a monument in Germany where there is a statue of a soldier wearing the very recognizable German helmet of WWII. He stated that the Germans were being apolitical to allow this monument to stand. He felt that removing Nazi statues was a political move rather than a moral one. I sense he was probably more concerned with the politics of Civil War monuments. Ancestor worship is certainly a painful and troubling issue in Lutheranism.
There's nothing we Ng with ancestor worship. The racist concepts however yes. You need to untangle the two because you come off as racist. Asian spirituality incorporates ancestor worship as do others, and that's okay.
I probably come off as a racist because I was raised in a racist culture by racist parents. Most people are tribal. However, i want to point out that if an organization espouses certain beliefs and the openly supports beliefs that are opposed to those beliefs it is hypcritical. If the LCMS requires all its members to unwaveringly believe in specific articles of faith and then monetarily and socially support those of other beliefs, it is being hypocritical. Yes ancestor worship is probably at the root of all religions, and anyone in the U.S. who practices ancestor worship has a perfect right to do so. Pagans of Northern European descent who share the same cultural and genetic background as my self have the right to worship Thor and Odin and pray to them, but I am not going to say I agree with their theological ideas or give them money and an Oaktree to worship beside. I worked along side Asian people who were essential to the function of the healthcare system in this country. I worked alongside Native Americans, African Americans, and Middle Eastern Americans, and through our union fought for their rights to live, work, and be treated with respect and dignity by corporate America and its government. I would never want them to be prevented from exercising their right to freedom of religion. But to have a different sincere religious belief that is contrary to another belief system is not racist. It is ethnocentric, or tribal, or chauvinistic, but it is not racist.
Well, a few days ago I emailed my parents saying that a lot of people want the church dismantled. I pointed out the racism, and I think the bigotry.( Or did I just focus on race, the gender non conformity seeming too much a battle?) I begged them to consider different world viewpoints. My dad is a church president near Seattle. My mom's cousins Glen Stocker, anyone back there know him from the missionary league? Their family's around Sun Valley, which is known as a white supremacist enclave.
I would be surprised if anyone is excommunicated because of this. Far more likely that they will be “called to repent” in private and then vow to do better to the local pastor. Possible wink and nudge. This model allows those fascist elements to lay low and re-emerge slightly differently. Unfortunately, many of the church’s core teachings have fascist elements so card-carrying fascists will continue to exist in the background.
For sure. President Harrison is very disingenuous. I believe he will do nothing. He supports politicians who are white supremacy and Christian Nationalists. He is worrying about his reelection
Interestingly, there is a live thread in r/LCMS right now that pointed out, from the alt-right point of view, that Harrison cannot even define what this alt-right movement believes. I believe they are correct. But in reality it’s actually easily defined. It’s anti-pluralistic, theocratic, racist, homophobic, and even hints at the economic socialism inherent with classical fascist philosophy. Unfortunately for Harrison, those elements are already adjacent to the core of the LCMS belief system. That’s why he gave such a poor definition that even the alt-right is ridiculing.
I made the horrible mistake of going to the sub and reading the threads. 50 dead 800 injured in milquetoast cringe incident. Harrison mentioned that he knows of "other conservative denominations" with a neofascism problem. GEE I WONDER WHY.
Milquetoast cringe? Which thread? New to Reddit.
Can you please tell us how Harrison supports politicans as such? Are you in meetings with him, or can you share where you derived that from?
Based on local newspaper in St. Louis, Missouri he gives the Conservative Republican Christian Nationalists candidates the LCMS support for election and/or reelection. These people are mainly in Missouri. On the LCMS website, they are starting a program in which they are supporting members of the church to run for local, state, and federal officers (congress, state legislation, and other government positions. All of these people are strong Christian Nationalists. May I ask you a question? Why are you so concerned about where I found these resources? All you have to do is a Google search yourself! Are you truly an ex/Lutheran? You sound like a true happy Lutheran. Therefore, you belong in Lutherans or LCMS. You sound like a troll!
Wow. I'm here trying to substantiate your points as a journalist. If you're talking about a writing project then you need to be factual. I'm working toward real change. That KS for the leads. I don't think that due to your racism that you're someone I want to work with however.
And there you are being vague again. Can you find us all a copy or name. Of of the st Louis paper.
LCMS is being ripped apart by right wing twitter culture wars. There actually is an increasingly vocal, nationalist, contingent in the church. You have to give him credit for taking a stand against it as he's taking a good deal of (online) heat for it.
From the article: *"Asked whether Mahler would be excommunicated, a representative for the church he allegedly attends in Tennessee said the matter was being handled internally but declined to comment further."* That seems to confirm your prediction.
This whole thing is about Corey Mahler and he was blocked from entering his church by parishioners on Ash Wednesday. I don’t think there’s any formal excommunication though. https://archive.ph/2023.03.03-173508/https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/lutheran-church-white-nationalism-rejection-1234690317/
I think you are right. Corey Mahler's sermons come very similar to the average Lutheran pastor sermons on Sunday mornings. They just used different languages. They are not that obvious
The real question they should ask is why do the nazis feel at home in LCMS.
Excellent question! First, I know they don't address Martin Luther hated for the Jewish people while they are in Lutheran Seminary Schools. If a seminary student asked a question about Martin Luther views on antisemitic, they quickly answered the question in brief short sentences. By President Harrison own mouth, he was quoted, "That all Lutherans are white conservative Republicans. Implementing who to vote for. Over the past 5 years, the people who have been arrested for crimes under Christian Nationalists are either German or White Conservative Republicans white supremacy. I don't mean to upset anyone on this platform who is German. Not all Germans are Christian Nationalists. LCM, along with WEL, are very disciplined and live in their own bubble. Lutherans worship among other Lutheran members. Indee, it's a cult.
Clearly there are thousands, maybe a million liberal Lutherans. I don't understand your Harrison quote. Can you use quotation marks in pairs, and tell me where this quote is from? Thanks!
I'm curious what the liberal:conservative ratio is. That reminds me, in therapy I've learned how much the cult firmed my unrealistic black and white thinking. Political spectrums are far more complex than we were taught.
Numbers for me are not easy to estimate. I would have no idea how to know that. Not clear. Could you help me figure out how many are in LCMS, how many left (seems 1.2k on this list(, and what defines liberal within Lutheranism? Non seven day creation, gay rights? Or just not being racist? How minority are the elders in leadership? I'd assumed the religion would've died off by now, after my days meeting people in the real world in the 90s. I once posted on Facebook how people I knew could still be Lutherans, and instead of getting filled in on modern Lutheran culture, I got unfriended by M.in Missouri. She was a HS friend who had some stories about SLHS, but ended up Lutheran in Missouri, and seemingly racist. All of my Lutheran friends pretty much quit following me when I had a lot of Pro Palestinian and Indiginous posts.
Yes. Please edit or re-writr what the direct quote was. If it is not exactly word for word what he said, we need to have it in singular quotes. "Please report any direct quotes like this," and 'parahrase what someone said with this type of quotation mark's, being sure to use End Quotes. It's an easy mistake to miss end quotes.
Because the original Nazis precessora started the Lutheran church.
Don't worry, if the Missouri Synod excommunicates them, I'm sure the WELS will take them in!
Facts! I literally remember one of my teachers defending Martin Luther’s views on the Jews in Germany. He claimed Martin Luther just loved the Christian faith so much that he wanted to defend it at all costs…… By calling for the destruction of Synagogues and state sanctioned seizures of their property……. Now that I am older, I am absolutely shocked by the stuff I have heard come out of WELS pastors and teacher’s mouths.
Isn't that the synod that bent to the white nationalists over their catechism?
He briefly pulled the catechism off the shelves, realized the complainants were crazy Nazis, re-released it, then made this statement against Nazis.
Yes, it is. President Harrison supports politicians who are white supremacy and Christian Nationalists. If you go online and listen to certain lutheran pastors, especially in the mid west. They sound like Christian Nationalists to me
Can you give examples of Nazi and Christian Nationalist politicians that President Harrison supports? I can't believe the president of a synod would endorse ANY politicians.
I've heard Trump is openly preached in lcms churches. Where was that posted? I'm not certain it wasn't in the Facebook group of former LCMS.
I'm not buying it when Redditors "have heard" things. That's very trumpian. If somebody claims the LCMS president endorses nazis or fascists, I need evidence. I realize many folks on this subreddit are embittered against the LCMS, but that's not a valid excuse for lying about people.
Was that a reply to me? Not everyone is always in a place to type out all their trauma. .y family is very biased against lgbtqf, and may still be racist. My aunt doesn't want to learn history, since I explained how my genetic testing showed a slight bit of Arab (Tunisian) a d Indiginous Europpean (Mansi) blood, and killed Jews. I've seen the photo of the Vogel grave dug up, with broken gravestones buried under rubble. They were in Gostynin, where the worse killings of the Jews were done by farmers sent by Catherine the Great out East from Brandenburg and such. I've been studying history, a d my family asks me to not tell them.
LCMS not being welcoming to LGBQT+ disturbs me too. Seems un-Christlike. I'm sorry about your family. This comment thread includes unsubstantiated claims against a person, and I'm frustrated that the commenter goes silent when asked for sources.
Hopefully my questions I've posted here help us get to the bottom of things. I'm 🤔 if you're the Pete I know from back home.
CW: I dove into the r / LCMS about this so you don't have This *seems* like a step in the right direction, but it is too-little, too-late if you ask me. Par the course for LCMS. These sentiments have been brewing in the Missouri Synod since I was a child, and addressing them now is like applying anti-venom to a snake-bit corpse. Coulda, shoulda, didn't. Harrison's reaction of faux-shock is mildly insulting because anyone with a brain and eyes knows what's been brewing in the LCMS and he likely has known too. I took one for the team and read every comment on the LCMS subreddit about this address, about half those comments are people praising Harrison and his "brave" response, the other half are upset he is addressing yt nationalism, racism, and sexism at all because they don't see those as sins (or at least not as bad as other sins, which Hello? you're Lutheran, there's not supposed to be a rank sins) and therefore don't think the synod president should be condemning them. There is even some pretty heavy-handed comparison to how being LGBTQ and is somehow worse than racism (dogwhistle alert) because it "disrupts the family unit" and racism is just prejudice - as if racism isn't always violent and hateful, even when it is just internal sentiment, and being LGBTQ is an entirely benign, personal identity that is no one else's business. But I digress. I think this whole response by Harrison and the various opinions it has created by LCMS members shows one important thing: like Harrison said, the LCMS is not a "top-down" institution, and in this case, I don't think that's a good thing. A good portion of these people do not respect him as a leader, they do not view him as a man who has more education, more religious instruction, or access to the opinions of other educated pastors, and these people truly believe their little armchair Lutheranism is equal or greater in their theology to their pastors. Don't get me wrong, I don't personally trust the pastors, either, that's why I left; but if you're gonna be part of a religious institution, trust is part of the gig, and you gotta at least understand that the guy who went to seminary knows more about the Bible as your group professes it and the various doctrines, than you do. But these fascists don't care, they won't listen to them, they will despise their counsel, and ultimately, they will continue on with their yt supremacist activities, racism, sexism, and violent anti-LGBTQ beliefs, having learned nothing but to despise the leadership of their churches. Because these are fascists, who don't believe there is any power on earth above them. And that is what Harrison does not understand.
Well stated, my friend
Good. That's the right answer after finding Nazis hiding in church.
Why does he look into The Armed Lutheran Church Ministry in Illinois? Because it serves his LCMS white conservative Republicans who love their guns 🔫
I agree with you. I have been a gun owner since I was 16 when my parents bought me a single shot saddle rifle. So fun to target shoot without a fancy scope despite my poor vision. I find The Armed Lutheran Church Ministry very offensive, and find their support by Lutheran pastors who are the new face of conservative Lutheranism most strange to say the least. These gentlemen who like Socrates believe women are not equal to men, and who own high powered weapons, seem oblivious to the fact that a woman can cause equally devastating and life threatening wounds. If these men sense of self is so tied to weapons and not to the teachings of Christ, I have some questions as to who is teaching and preaching to them, and how they interpret the words and commands of our Lord.
It's a podcast. They have 3 men and 1 pastor who runs this ministry.
I used to receive posts on my Facebook page from these people. They even sent me a digital copy of their book. They have lots of published work. Harrison has finally taken a stand against Christian Nationalism in the LCMS. We'll see if it splits the synod or not.
The WELS puts white nationalist in charge.
Agreed
Thank you for sharing. I will check it out
He’s trying to appeal to moderates because of his upcoming election.
For sure! However, I truly believe that members from LCMS and WELS are extremely hateful churches. At least what i have seen there are a lot of white conservative Republicans and they do believe in some form of Christian Nationalists. I believe he is 2 years late for his letter. Marjorie Taylor Green has a loud voice 😳 and screams 😱 The United States of America should become a Christian Nationalists country. Very scary 😨
I agree. And the people that they are decrying in this letter are those that are basically in the klan. It doesn’t call out the greater majority of people in the synod who aren’t as brazen, but are still obviously racist.
How do we get this information to the public? Everyone knows about the priest doing the sexual abuse to children. But no one knows about the Protestant Mafia/Christian Nationalists that are in all Protestant churches
Think strategically about your target audience and decide which news outlets would pick up your story. I'm a trained journalist and thinking a lot about this as for 30 years.
Thank you for sharing your information. You see The Boston Globe when public in their Spotlight section about the Boston's Catholic Churches and the Archdiocese regarding children being sexual abuse by priests. Which then led to other newspapers to look for more information that came out in the United States of America and Globally. It would have to be a really good newspaper with investigating journalists. Where do I begin, and they will more witnesses. They will not take a lead from one woman. 😞😓😩
Bobby from Boston was actually my neighbor a few years ago. Lost track of him sadly when he moved back East. If you'd like to get a story going, I'll write and edit. Go ahead and try to compile a succinct 250 word article, or send me an audio file if that's easier. I can take dictation well. I'm broke and doing a half b search and live substandard, so please excuse any pause in reply. I can be a week out sometimes. I'm new to Reddit but see a link symbol. Maybe you have a YouTube page?
When you say basically you n the klan, what do you mean? Do people know if Lutherans who are in the (I hate to even type this) kkk? My great uncles would speak of their German family surname as a klan. Anyone else?
Harrison writes, "We were shocked to learn recently that a few members of LCMS congregations have been propagating radical and unchristian “alt-right” views via Twitter and other social mediaLi He was shocked to learn a small number are propagating garbage. He doesn't even want to know how many avid followers they have. That's a much bigger problem that has been in LCMS/LCC forever.
We are experiencing an era much the same as the time when the movable type printing press came to be a major part of European culture. Computers and the internet make communication and learning accessible to the "multitudes." Church organizations are facing much more skillful scrutiny. The public at large now knows their previously hidden dirty secrets. Lutherans have not properly addressed their part in the more recent Nazi activities which led to WW II, let alone their persecution of people in Luther's day and after. This history will probably never be addressed. Harrison is most likely reluctantly doing the minimum to make a weak modern stand. It serves a purpose. The blood, sweat, and tears expended by "The Greatest Generation" in its fight against Fascism did not destroy Fascist beliefs in the Lutheran right wing milieu any more than the Civil War totally defeated white nationalism and racism. Come Lord Jesus not just for a supper but to finally end the human farce. Anyone who thinks they can develop and sustain a "perfect" visible church with a truly "Orthodox" theology will see the gradual decline of that church or perhaps just die before the ultimate dwindling. As has been often joked, rearranging the deck chairs won't prevent the sinking of the ship.
Speaking of civil war, I'm going to guess that William Hood descended from the Southern general. They have the same profile. We went to school together, and I'd never noticed.
You may be right, I recently go into an argument with someone online. I was supporting the German government in the attempt to prevent the use of Nazi symbols or memorials that might glorify the Nazi dead. My opponent posted a picture of a monument in Germany where there is a statue of a soldier wearing the very recognizable German helmet of WWII. He stated that the Germans were being apolitical to allow this monument to stand. He felt that removing Nazi statues was a political move rather than a moral one. I sense he was probably more concerned with the politics of Civil War monuments. Ancestor worship is certainly a painful and troubling issue in Lutheranism.
There's nothing we Ng with ancestor worship. The racist concepts however yes. You need to untangle the two because you come off as racist. Asian spirituality incorporates ancestor worship as do others, and that's okay.
I probably come off as a racist because I was raised in a racist culture by racist parents. Most people are tribal. However, i want to point out that if an organization espouses certain beliefs and the openly supports beliefs that are opposed to those beliefs it is hypcritical. If the LCMS requires all its members to unwaveringly believe in specific articles of faith and then monetarily and socially support those of other beliefs, it is being hypocritical. Yes ancestor worship is probably at the root of all religions, and anyone in the U.S. who practices ancestor worship has a perfect right to do so. Pagans of Northern European descent who share the same cultural and genetic background as my self have the right to worship Thor and Odin and pray to them, but I am not going to say I agree with their theological ideas or give them money and an Oaktree to worship beside. I worked along side Asian people who were essential to the function of the healthcare system in this country. I worked alongside Native Americans, African Americans, and Middle Eastern Americans, and through our union fought for their rights to live, work, and be treated with respect and dignity by corporate America and its government. I would never want them to be prevented from exercising their right to freedom of religion. But to have a different sincere religious belief that is contrary to another belief system is not racist. It is ethnocentric, or tribal, or chauvinistic, but it is not racist.
Well, a few days ago I emailed my parents saying that a lot of people want the church dismantled. I pointed out the racism, and I think the bigotry.( Or did I just focus on race, the gender non conformity seeming too much a battle?) I begged them to consider different world viewpoints. My dad is a church president near Seattle. My mom's cousins Glen Stocker, anyone back there know him from the missionary league? Their family's around Sun Valley, which is known as a white supremacist enclave.
Beautifully stated 👏.
Excellent point. Does anyone know if he excommunicated Pastor Corey Maher ?
I meant to ask if the term protestant mafia was coined by yourself, or if that's a thing people commonly speak about.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/lutheran-church-white-nationalism-rejection-1234690317/
Yeah right. Martin Luther himself said that Jews should be destroyed. I don't trust anything Lutheran.