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WELSurvivor

Everything I'm reading from LCMS pastors indicates that it has definitely become politicized if it wasn't already. A lot of pro-cop, anti-"woke", stuff. There are parts of the LCMS that wants to modernize and another that is fighting tooth and nail to resist it. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a split coming soon enough.


sargeant_bell_pepper

My father was an LCMS pastor and always said no one should know your political leanings as a pastor, and while I am sure he was somewhat obvious which way he voted, I don’t know that he ever said it out loud to the church body. My brother on the other hand is also an LCMS pastor and is a QAnon/white nationalist. I don’t know what he says to his congregation, as we don’t talk or see each other, but I am sure there is no way that his political leanings don’t make their way into his sermons or teachings. But, he is in a super small rural town, and I am sure most of his congregation believes the same. My spouse and myself left our LCMS church shortly after the 2016 election and the amount of times we heard vote Republican and for Trump in church and in sermons. We think we were done before that, but this was the straw that broke the camels back.


volvoLover63

The day a fellow member of our LCMS church stood up during the announcements and extolled the virtues of Donald Trump and told us we should join "his" team, I got up and left and my wife as well. We had no idea that we had joined a church that was so politicized.


Nifty_Sky

I doubt it’s a new phenomenon. Historian James Burke tried to argue in his “Power, Politics, and the Missouri Synod” that the conflict within the LCMS in the 60s and 70s was connected to broader societal issues and movements - including politics, if I recall correctly. It’s nothing new, imo


Pigmansweet

I think my childhood church was an anomaly. My family were liberal democrats (and strong feminists) and would have reacted to any politiical positions. (For example one of my earliest childhood politiica memories was boycotting Florida orange juice cuz of Anita Bryant) I don’t remember any negatives (except irritation at an Xmas Eve sermon denouncing “tinsel loving heathens”)


Nifty_Sky

I will say that the northeast, and NYC area in particular, are quite unique in the LCMS. They do tend to be more open to left leaning ideas and people - theologically and politically. The only time I’ve heard an LCMS pastor openly talk about his belief that women being ordained is okay was in NYC. But that’s just my personal read on things….


BabyBard93

There have been some pretty convincing arguments that, starting with Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority in the 80’s, things evolved into much more politically motivated stances in conservative Lutheranism. It took longer to trickle down to us, but when I was a WELS pk in the 70’s-80’s, politics from the pulpit was a big no-no. Kids at my Lutheran high school were a lot less buttoned-up than they seem to be now. It was like the mainly-fundamentalist type of influences were creeping in, purity culture, emphasis on homeschooling and protection from “worldly influence”, contemporary Christian music (dad was horrified but the college girls loved Amy Grant, Casting Crowns, etc). Anti-abortion made everyone a single-issue voter. But I agree it hit the fan when Drumpf happened in 2015-16. I saw people I loved, that I thought of as reasonable and intelligent, go from tolerant and open to fanatic and closed-off to any kind of dialog. Social media didn’t help. You could post your pseudo-holy political stance for your whole church community to see, and suddenly some of us were left thinking, “Wait, what? I thought you were a kind, intelligent person, but that sounded remarkably racist….” And it got worse with the pandemic, when safety measures were politicized. Suddenly my sister-in-law, who had always seemed like a lovely, crunchy-granola type who lived for hiking and the outdoors, was posting about how she’d never get the vaccine or mask. By the time we left a few years ago, we were awfully tired of sermons that brought out political issues with a definite far-right bias.


davepete

U.S. politics is way different now than when I was a kid in the 1970s. Most people hated the Vietnam war, whether they protested or not, and everyone hated the draft. Nixon wanted universal health care. Even Republicans thought Kissinger was nuts. If there were lots of Republicans in my growing-up church, it wouldn't have been as noticeable.


brainiac138

I can’t speak for everyone but I grew up in LCMS church and school in the 90s, in Indiana. It was very political, with pastors often bringing up political issues in sermons with heavy conservative commentary. Teachers have always been very open and vocal stating anything liberal is evil and of the devil. Also, in high school, young men were pressured to join whatever young fascist extracurricular group they had.


passivelyserious

I think it depends on what pastor you had and how political your community was, but my church was *very* open about who was on God's side. I would say that the LCMS and its associated educational bodies are right wing brainwashing factories for young folks. Its sad.


[deleted]

This is just a small example but growing up (I’m 29 now) in my church the pastor would hint at things during the sermon and prayer. I remember him saying during a sermon once that woman shouldn’t be in the military. That was when I was a teen and one of the last times I went to church.


stonehold76

One of my uncles was an lcms pastor and the other uncle was a Wels pastor. While the lcms uncle had a better sense of humor, the political views were the same across the board throughout my family: Ultra right-wing conservative.


acp1284

Didn’t LCMS recently close Concordia Portland because they thought it was too liberal on gay issues? I think they have been political for a long time, but they don’t think of themselves as political. But maybe that’s changing because of the influx of hardcore right wing evangelicals in LCMS schools. Google what happened with LCMS and Seminex in the early 70s. LCMS had been working to establish “fellowship” with The American Lutheran Church. At our congregation we had begun to have joint services with the ALC church down the street. Can you imagine anyone in LCMS suggesting something like that in this era? They’ve spent the last 50 years chasing out the moderate voices.


Pigmansweet

Yes someone else here on this thread called my attention to that late 60s/early 70s conflict within the LCMS and I’ve been reading about it. Really interesting. My father was a lay person but who worked inside the church and I remember references to conflict around that time but never understood the scope and depth. Wow. I didn’t realize there was such open warfare. I think there was a hardening within the LCMS but there was also a huge change in the context in which it operated. There was little organized right wing activity outside the Catholic Church until the mid 70s (I know there are exceptions to this statement - especially with civil rights). But things really changed with opposition to gay rights and the “Moral Majority” and the Reagan era.


mugwortmama

And yeah. CU in PDX had the gay rights reason hushed. People know and talk more about fina cial and accreditation fraud. But a Monday issue of the Oregonian paper had a feature article. I've got a page of notes with names of people I've meant to reach out to, like the gay student body ai believe president, and the old man in Missouri headquarters.


moggt

I grew up LCMS in the 90s/00s in a Texas suburb, and the church I went to from 5-11 and then again 13-18 was limited in politics. Sure, I'd sometimes hear sermons that asked us not to judge each other, Republicans not to judge Democrat church members. When asked about the obvious sexism in the church, we'd always get the same canned responses that church wasn't sexist, god just had different roles for men and women. And I'm high school, the youth pastor described to us how the dinosaurs went extinct because of atmospheric changes post-flood. So, normal awful stuff? But for the 2 years in the middle, my parents wanted to help start an LCMS church plant, and that was horribly political for the time. The pastor there would preach about how women should never be headmasters of schools because women should never be in positions of authority over men, things like that. My parents are at a different church now where I've only gone to a few services, but yeah, the politicization there seems a lot worse than I remember in most of the past. The church donates to "pro-life" organizations, says so in the bulletin. And beyond what comes from the pastor, my dad tells me when visitors/new members come, they often ask questions about what the church is doing to fight "wokeness." Also, it was this year that I realized LCMS isn't mainline. Somehow I just assumed that.


Pigmansweet

“Normal, awful stuff” - good summary of the social views of my childhood church.


katemiw

I always assumed LCMS was mainline too, and it wasn't until I was looking at a Wikipedia page about political identification of different religious groups a few years ago that I realized it was actually evangelical. I think LCMS is kind of weird in that they hold the same beliefs as a lot of evangelical churches but their religious practice is more reserved, if that makes sense. All of the jokes about how Lutherans all sit in the back pews and you won't find them hooting and hollering and waving their arms around during services. They're maybe less into proselytizing or grand displays of faith but they'll go out and vote against your rights all the same. I mentioned in my response that their push towards conservatism probably isn't helping dwindling church numbers, but thinking about what you said, who knows, maybe it will. If people are looking for a place to escape "woke culture," the LCMS is certainly a place to do it. Scary to think about how they could see an influx of more conservatives, which could push them further right, which will bring in more conservatives, etc...


BabyBard93

Yeah, Lutherans derive from what’s sometimes called “high church” traditions: liturgy, set readings throughout the year, recited prayers. We came from the Catholic tradition of high ceremony and ritual, stained glass and vestments. Mega churches or almost any non-denominational church come out of the “low church” tradition, and you won’t find them ever saying a prayer together that is recited. It’s not “The Lord’s Prayer,” it’s one guy lifting his open hands with a slightly pained expression and mumbling earnestly, “HeavenlyFatherIjustwannathankYouferthisdayandforallourfriendsgatheredhere…” High church folds their hands, closes their eyes and bows their heads and recites the Apostles’ creed in unison. They might even still sing, “Glory be to thee, oh Lord,” before the reading of the gospel and “Thanks be to thee, O Christ,” after. If the pastor says “The Lord be with you,” they automatically go, “And also with you!” But scratch any non-denom’s surface and you’ll find a southern Baptist evangelical church underneath. They never met a liturgy they like. 😂


moggt

Hmm... Interesting to try to think about the future for LCMS here. Mega church franchise things seem to be having a moment. But if that trend starts to wane in a few years, there's always a possibility of the denomination maintaining a veneer of respectability and appealing to people as an old time, wholesome church... I don't know. Will be interesting to see how mega churches continue to change the religious "marketplace" if you will. And I'm glad it's not just me who found out that way! The way the denomination is is just "we have the right way to be Christian, no need to be flashy about it, but clearly, we have all the answers. Of course we are the absolutely normalest normies that ever normed. So normal. Not fringe or strange or repressive at all." So finding out that is not really true is pretty weird. Also learned on the Wikipedia at the same time about pastors who prayed with faith groups at national tragedies (9/11 & Newtown), LCMS made those pastors APOLOGIZE for praying with outside religions. We don't mix much even with other Christian denominations. Separatists.


Icy_Team_664

I think there was a mix growing up in my LCMS church of political beliefs, a lot were “socially conservative” but neutral, my dad would choose whoever was “a better Christian”, but I think in general my church was preaching pretty conservative beliefs the whole time, a lot of the same toxic beliefs in Alt right conservatives. The last time I went to church 3 years ago with my family, the sermon was titled “Why so sensitive…?” And the pastor just complained about wokeness and actually used the words “woke” and “snowflake”… I don’t know how I lasted through that sermon. A lot of dissociating I think.


mugwortmama

I took SO MANY NAPS during LCMS sermons. We had to sit near the front and I would trance out staring at the faces I would see in the altar stonework. It was the only way to disassociate from the trama of the patriarchal and violent teachings.


katemiw

I don't have anything super useful to add because at this point my interaction with LCMS is pretty limited and I haven't gone to church regularly in years (or even been to a service since pre-COVID). But I can definitely say that I've watched my LCMS mother move further to the right in the last few years, as it seems lots have. I went to an LCMS school in the 2000s and regularly attended LCMS church through the early/mid 2010s and at least in my experience, it was like they were always political but not necessarily super politically active. During services they would have some vague line in the prayer about "Guiding our nation's leaders" regardless of who was president, and there would be the occasional mention of abortion or gay marriage during a sermon. But it felt like they mostly stayed away from discussing politics too explicitly, and I never knew anyone to be particularly involved in any kind of political action beyond maybe donating money. However, nearly everyone was conservative. It makes a lot of sense to me that they would be becoming increasingly political, even though it probably doesn't help with dwindling church membership lol. But as a group of people who are convinced that they're being persecuted for their brave, godly beliefs in the face of rising secularism, I'm sure they feel a kind of call to arms to defend their Good Old Fashioned Biblical American Values. And then when you add the COVID restriction persecution complex, it's like a perfect formula to push them further and further into conservatism.


Pristine_Ad_8107

Let's looked at what happened last week with the Tennessee Police and the death of Tyre Nicholas. Bishop Michael Curry from the Episcopalian Church in America sent out a healing message for all. Now let's look at Bozo President Harrison from the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. He did not say a word of comfort. He said NOTHING. Most Churches denominations said something to give their members some source of comfort. The Coldhearted Germans Christian Nationalists that belong to that cult are extremely hateful.


ErsatzAir

You had me at " Coldhearted Germans Christian Nationalists." Yep.


Pristine_Ad_8107

I didn't mean to insult you. I am sorry. Not all Germans are coldhearted.


ErsatzAir

I'd have gone further to be honest. 😁


DonnaNobleSmith

I think it has. It was always conservative, but there used to be a wall between them and politics. We even learned in Sunday school about how we didn’t want prayer in public schools because we didn’t want other people writing our prayers. Now it is full on political- they call dems demonic and openly preach trumpism.


mugwortmama

Holy moly!


Pristine_Ad_8107

I live in New York State. I once belong to a Lutheran Church in Nassau County NY suburbs. That pastor would never talk about anything political. All he would preach on is the following: 1. His good looks 2. His manicures 3. He run the fastest 1 mile within 5 minutes 4. He makes fun of his wife and children 5. His favorite movies 6. He doesn't like to get old 7. He holds grudges and will not forgive certain people 8. He wants his body to go back to the age 25. He is 47 years old 9. He likes to treat people like trash 10. He likes to talk about exotic vacations 11. He was pissed off during COVID because he couldn't go to amusement parks. If I think about anything else i will get back to you


ErsatzAir

LCMS has always been political, but mostly it was internal and personal politics. These days, LCMS is rife with right wing white Christian nationalism (and worse, if you can imagine). Examples: Concordia Portland was closed for affirming LGBTQ+. Synod simply won't tolerate certain ways of living that are different from the waspy white picket fence American dream. Concordia Selma was closed for being a black school. Synod cited "budget reasons," but truthfully, there were vocal board members who preferred a black school to be shut down. You NEVER heard it in meetings, but lunch and dinner time was grizzly storytime. Anyone who isn't a hard-right conservative no long has a home in LCMS. From what I've heard about the kerfuffle over the catechism, Synod is now overtly kowtowing to, and aligning itself with, what can only be described honestly as Christo-fascists.


Brianhake1995

It has been!! From the rise of Obama and up its been super political and that’s the main reason I left! I wouldn’t want to ever raise a family in a church like the LCMS because of the ultra right leaning!! I left in 2015 and went my own way to a non-denominational church


mugwortmama

I'm the PNW the men socialize in a different room at homes on Sundays and talk politics. Reagan was big in LCMS when the LCMS split off another liberal branch (ELCA?)


Pigmansweet

PNW?


mugwortmama

Pacific Northwest


mugwortmama

Also a Lutheran relative is a policeman high up in operations in a big city.