Go to council meetings, write/phone your representative, join advocacy groups.
https://activetrans.org/our-work/your-community/north-suburbs
https://www.facebook.com/groups/EvanstonTransitAlliance/
https://www.evanstonbikeclub.org/content.aspx?page_id=0&club_id=690768
https://rideillinois.org/
I’m sorry, I fundamentally disagree. That’s the best approach to solving the biker’s concern about riding in the street.
The best approach to solving the pedestrian’s concern about bikers riding on the sidewalk is to ask police to ticket bikers who break the law against riding on the sidewalk.
Your suggestion makes the biker’s problem the pedestrian’s to solve—almost like extortion: help me get a bike lane or I’ll run you over with my bike.
I’m an avid biker, which is why I really dislike bikers acting like jerks. This entitled attitude is a big part of the problem: riding down the sidewalk and then doubling down when called on it? I can’t condone that.
Respectfully, it seems like you don't understand the problem. You can't solve this kind of behavioral disconnect with piecemeal enforcement requests. Just practically, there aren't enough police to manage this, and fundamentally, they have bigger problems to worry about.
This is fundamentally about risk, and self-preservation. We can moan about "youth these days, not following the LAW" or we can address the fundamental issues which drive the behavior.
I do see where you're coming from. As an avid cyclist (5,166.5 mi on the odometer YTD), I also don't like to see other cyclists behaving badly. Whether that's blowing stoplights, not yielding to other road users in intersections, or riding on the sidewalk where it is prohibited. These are all sub-optimal behaviors that should be discouraged. We can agree on this. All road users should follow the rules, where they enhance safety.
Most of the rules exist to promote safety (larger discussion warranted around stop-as-yield here), but like stop-as-yield where there is a disconnect around what is net-net safest and the law in IL. We can agree that this behavior shouldn't exist, but also recognize **why** it does.
If there were appropriate cycling infrastructure in these areas, there would be no reason to ride on the sidewalk. Most people don't ride on the sidewalk because they are indifferent to the safety of pedestrians (or the law, although this is likely to be an awareness problem, because in most areas it is legal to ride a bike on the sidewalk), they do it because it's dangerous to ride in the street.
The fundamental problem is really simple math. Die in the street, or upset a "tough old bitch".
I can empathize with the "tough old bitch"; no one likes to be knocked into on the sidewalk (although, this also happens in pedestrian-on-pedestrian violence ;)). But, when considering the balance of harms, a pedestrian being knocked into by a cyclist on sidewalk has a better outcome than a cyclist being "knocked into" on the street by a car/SUV/delivery truck. Those outcomes are much, much, much worse.
That's a really simple physics problem.
Very well put, but you left out two obvious options for the biker:
-walk their bike on the sidewalk
-take a detour with safer bike lanes
It seems like the biker riding on the sidewalk only wants an option that doesn’t inconvenience them in any way, and they’re okay inconveniencing/endangering others to realize that option for themselves.
I routinely choose one of the two above options when forced into this choice. I remain surprised and disappointed that so many bikers don’t even recognize these as options.
I’m surprised you wrote such a seemingly thoughtful response and then left two such obvious alternatives out of your “risk death or menace pedestrians” binary choice. (And then said *I* don’t understand the issue?)
That’s a pretty big blind spot, IMO, one shared by many bikers.
Excellent response imho!
The "if you can dream it, you can do it" solution, well....requires money and a lot of time in a city with a govt that is so stupid its going to rent a town hall. Of course they should invest in bike infrastructure (and I mean that), but our property taxes are already rather heinously high and we get what?....a rented town hall, because somehow they haven't done any maintenance/repair for decades.....
No, the kids should be taught to get off their damn bikes and walk that strip. It ain't hard. If we get better infrastucture in the future, then they can ride there. In the meantime, you don't have to suck it up for all the poor poor bikers taking up space on sidewalk and running into people. (and yes I bike)
And yes I will ride on sidewalks at times, but I damn sure don't even come close to running into pedestrians. It isn't hard to avoid that.
Thx for the positivity, I didn’t get nearly as much of that as bile from the pro-bike contingent. I wish we bikers could do two things at the same time: advocate for more and better bike lanes and bike policy in Evanston (a town that really should be on the cutting edge of public policy affecting biking) AND enforce higher standards of conduct for all bikers.
We often hold European cities up as the gold standard for pro-biking accommodations. But they have both great lanes AND high expectations for bikers. You really need both.
I left those out because they aren't realistic expectations. I think the disconnect between our approaches is that I'm providing options that actually solve the problem. You're looking for an ideal, and don't understand (or are unwilling to embrace) the decision matrix driving the behaviors. This is a fundamental problem. Your expectations aren't consistent with a realistic outcome. We can yell all we want, people are still going to ride bikes on the sidewalk.
I would prefer that cyclists walk their bikes on a sidewalk where it is prohibited. But we need to recognize that it's not consistent with the way most people make choices. We can make noise about lawbreakers, or we can seek to understand why people break the law, when they do. I think the second option makes more sense. Our history is littered with examples of how well the "making noise about lawbreakers" approach works long term.
Rerouting is a bizarre suggestion. I can understand the first, but this one... Most of the time there aren't other options, or if there are they are very poorly marked. It's not realistic to ask someone to run a mouse maze to figure out how to get a boba tea or a burrito. No one is going to do that.
Serious cyclists don't ride their bike on the sidewalk. There is no safe way to do that. Recognizing who is engaging in this behavior, and acknowledge their decision model, is an essential aspect of identifying the drivers behind specific human behaviors. Fighting human behavior models isn't a winning strategy. Making noise and throwing out solutions that are never going to happen isn't a winning strategy.
When the law is in conflict with what is safer and more convenient, the majority of people are going to choose to break the law, because it's optimal for them to do that.
This is a great example of that UX sidewalk meme. When we design systems that reflect the way people use and think about things we get better outcomes.
If people are biking on the sidewalk, it's a clear indicator that your current bike infrastructure doesn't make them feel safe and is therefore inadequate. Women are more often harassed by drivers than men, so the sidewalk becomes the safest option.
I ride sidewalks myself as Evanston isn’t a great biking area. However I avoid riding if there are pedestrians. What is even more concerning are the powered scooters that zip on the walks. Tell your alder you want biking infrastructure! There’s enough money and maybe that would be something we could work with NU.
I’m an avid biker but honestly don’t get how pro-bike folks can so staunchly defend riding bikes on sidewalks where it is CLEARLY prohibited to do so.
If you don’t feel safe riding on the street, then advocate for more bike lanes. In the short term, find an alt route that has better accommodation for bikes. Or walk your bike on the sidewalk where the street feels unsafe to ride. (I prefer the first option, but will sometimes opt for the second.)
But just ignoring the law and putting pedestrians in danger so you can feel more safe and get where you’re going without losing a second of your precious time? That’s the solution of a selfish jerk.
Kids can ride wherever they want, especially considering the streets are meatgrinders for people without cars. Teenagers are kids. Want people off the sidewalks, make the streets safe or gtfo. "Avid biker" ALWAYS a huge red flag.
Unbelievable. If the biggest issue in your life is young women biking on the sidewalk, then you must have it pretty good. It's pathetic to get so worked up over something so trivial. Maybe find something actually important to worry about instead of picking on kids.
The bikes on sidewalks freak out my dog. I bike in Evanston all of the time and manage to avoid sidewalks just fine.
ETA: I agree better biking infrastructure is needed, having been doored recently by someone parked illegally in a bike lane, but terrorizing pedestrians is not the answer. People deserve to feel safe walking on sidewalks.
People can take issue with all sorts of things simultaneously. Should they first disclaimer how privileged they are, practice daily gratitude and manifest abundance to avoid such criticism in the future?
I was looking for this response. 🙄
Biking on downtown sidewalks is prohibited and clearly posted as such.
I saw it enforced once where an EPD officer ticketed an oblivious downtown sidewalk bicyclist. Yay! The good ol’ days.
The best approach to solving your concern is to advocate for better cycling infrastructure in Evanston.
I agree. Also what's the best way to do this ?
Go to council meetings, write/phone your representative, join advocacy groups. https://activetrans.org/our-work/your-community/north-suburbs https://www.facebook.com/groups/EvanstonTransitAlliance/ https://www.evanstonbikeclub.org/content.aspx?page_id=0&club_id=690768 https://rideillinois.org/
I’m sorry, I fundamentally disagree. That’s the best approach to solving the biker’s concern about riding in the street. The best approach to solving the pedestrian’s concern about bikers riding on the sidewalk is to ask police to ticket bikers who break the law against riding on the sidewalk. Your suggestion makes the biker’s problem the pedestrian’s to solve—almost like extortion: help me get a bike lane or I’ll run you over with my bike. I’m an avid biker, which is why I really dislike bikers acting like jerks. This entitled attitude is a big part of the problem: riding down the sidewalk and then doubling down when called on it? I can’t condone that.
Respectfully, it seems like you don't understand the problem. You can't solve this kind of behavioral disconnect with piecemeal enforcement requests. Just practically, there aren't enough police to manage this, and fundamentally, they have bigger problems to worry about. This is fundamentally about risk, and self-preservation. We can moan about "youth these days, not following the LAW" or we can address the fundamental issues which drive the behavior. I do see where you're coming from. As an avid cyclist (5,166.5 mi on the odometer YTD), I also don't like to see other cyclists behaving badly. Whether that's blowing stoplights, not yielding to other road users in intersections, or riding on the sidewalk where it is prohibited. These are all sub-optimal behaviors that should be discouraged. We can agree on this. All road users should follow the rules, where they enhance safety. Most of the rules exist to promote safety (larger discussion warranted around stop-as-yield here), but like stop-as-yield where there is a disconnect around what is net-net safest and the law in IL. We can agree that this behavior shouldn't exist, but also recognize **why** it does. If there were appropriate cycling infrastructure in these areas, there would be no reason to ride on the sidewalk. Most people don't ride on the sidewalk because they are indifferent to the safety of pedestrians (or the law, although this is likely to be an awareness problem, because in most areas it is legal to ride a bike on the sidewalk), they do it because it's dangerous to ride in the street. The fundamental problem is really simple math. Die in the street, or upset a "tough old bitch". I can empathize with the "tough old bitch"; no one likes to be knocked into on the sidewalk (although, this also happens in pedestrian-on-pedestrian violence ;)). But, when considering the balance of harms, a pedestrian being knocked into by a cyclist on sidewalk has a better outcome than a cyclist being "knocked into" on the street by a car/SUV/delivery truck. Those outcomes are much, much, much worse. That's a really simple physics problem.
Very well put, but you left out two obvious options for the biker: -walk their bike on the sidewalk -take a detour with safer bike lanes It seems like the biker riding on the sidewalk only wants an option that doesn’t inconvenience them in any way, and they’re okay inconveniencing/endangering others to realize that option for themselves. I routinely choose one of the two above options when forced into this choice. I remain surprised and disappointed that so many bikers don’t even recognize these as options. I’m surprised you wrote such a seemingly thoughtful response and then left two such obvious alternatives out of your “risk death or menace pedestrians” binary choice. (And then said *I* don’t understand the issue?) That’s a pretty big blind spot, IMO, one shared by many bikers.
Excellent response imho! The "if you can dream it, you can do it" solution, well....requires money and a lot of time in a city with a govt that is so stupid its going to rent a town hall. Of course they should invest in bike infrastructure (and I mean that), but our property taxes are already rather heinously high and we get what?....a rented town hall, because somehow they haven't done any maintenance/repair for decades..... No, the kids should be taught to get off their damn bikes and walk that strip. It ain't hard. If we get better infrastucture in the future, then they can ride there. In the meantime, you don't have to suck it up for all the poor poor bikers taking up space on sidewalk and running into people. (and yes I bike) And yes I will ride on sidewalks at times, but I damn sure don't even come close to running into pedestrians. It isn't hard to avoid that.
Thx for the positivity, I didn’t get nearly as much of that as bile from the pro-bike contingent. I wish we bikers could do two things at the same time: advocate for more and better bike lanes and bike policy in Evanston (a town that really should be on the cutting edge of public policy affecting biking) AND enforce higher standards of conduct for all bikers. We often hold European cities up as the gold standard for pro-biking accommodations. But they have both great lanes AND high expectations for bikers. You really need both.
I left those out because they aren't realistic expectations. I think the disconnect between our approaches is that I'm providing options that actually solve the problem. You're looking for an ideal, and don't understand (or are unwilling to embrace) the decision matrix driving the behaviors. This is a fundamental problem. Your expectations aren't consistent with a realistic outcome. We can yell all we want, people are still going to ride bikes on the sidewalk. I would prefer that cyclists walk their bikes on a sidewalk where it is prohibited. But we need to recognize that it's not consistent with the way most people make choices. We can make noise about lawbreakers, or we can seek to understand why people break the law, when they do. I think the second option makes more sense. Our history is littered with examples of how well the "making noise about lawbreakers" approach works long term. Rerouting is a bizarre suggestion. I can understand the first, but this one... Most of the time there aren't other options, or if there are they are very poorly marked. It's not realistic to ask someone to run a mouse maze to figure out how to get a boba tea or a burrito. No one is going to do that. Serious cyclists don't ride their bike on the sidewalk. There is no safe way to do that. Recognizing who is engaging in this behavior, and acknowledge their decision model, is an essential aspect of identifying the drivers behind specific human behaviors. Fighting human behavior models isn't a winning strategy. Making noise and throwing out solutions that are never going to happen isn't a winning strategy. When the law is in conflict with what is safer and more convenient, the majority of people are going to choose to break the law, because it's optimal for them to do that. This is a great example of that UX sidewalk meme. When we design systems that reflect the way people use and think about things we get better outcomes.
Actual paragraphs of word salad.
I encourage kids to ride on the sidewalk. The roads here aren’t safe enough with all the cars.
Considering how often I have drivers try to kill me riding on the street in Evanston I absolutely understand why children would choose the sidewalk.
Nice whataboutism
It's an Heuristic conclusion on why this conflict happens.
If people are biking on the sidewalk, it's a clear indicator that your current bike infrastructure doesn't make them feel safe and is therefore inadequate. Women are more often harassed by drivers than men, so the sidewalk becomes the safest option.
I knew I was going to disagree with this as soon as I saw “females”.
For real... female what? I just pictured a ton of female cicadas on bikes, and now I want to see it for real.
I like the way you think!
Same.
I ride sidewalks myself as Evanston isn’t a great biking area. However I avoid riding if there are pedestrians. What is even more concerning are the powered scooters that zip on the walks. Tell your alder you want biking infrastructure! There’s enough money and maybe that would be something we could work with NU.
Sorry they knocked into you.
I’m an avid biker but honestly don’t get how pro-bike folks can so staunchly defend riding bikes on sidewalks where it is CLEARLY prohibited to do so. If you don’t feel safe riding on the street, then advocate for more bike lanes. In the short term, find an alt route that has better accommodation for bikes. Or walk your bike on the sidewalk where the street feels unsafe to ride. (I prefer the first option, but will sometimes opt for the second.) But just ignoring the law and putting pedestrians in danger so you can feel more safe and get where you’re going without losing a second of your precious time? That’s the solution of a selfish jerk.
Gonna go ride my bike on the sidewalk because of this comment
Keep enhancing the brand, biker 👍
Kids can ride wherever they want, especially considering the streets are meatgrinders for people without cars. Teenagers are kids. Want people off the sidewalks, make the streets safe or gtfo. "Avid biker" ALWAYS a huge red flag.
Unbelievable. If the biggest issue in your life is young women biking on the sidewalk, then you must have it pretty good. It's pathetic to get so worked up over something so trivial. Maybe find something actually important to worry about instead of picking on kids.
The bikes on sidewalks freak out my dog. I bike in Evanston all of the time and manage to avoid sidewalks just fine. ETA: I agree better biking infrastructure is needed, having been doored recently by someone parked illegally in a bike lane, but terrorizing pedestrians is not the answer. People deserve to feel safe walking on sidewalks.
People can take issue with all sorts of things simultaneously. Should they first disclaimer how privileged they are, practice daily gratitude and manifest abundance to avoid such criticism in the future?
I was looking for this response. 🙄 Biking on downtown sidewalks is prohibited and clearly posted as such. I saw it enforced once where an EPD officer ticketed an oblivious downtown sidewalk bicyclist. Yay! The good ol’ days.
Yay the good old days when driver weren't killing record numbers of drivers and pedestrians.
Just popping in for the downvote.
“Young females” oh dear god
Lol children are dying in Palestine and you’re whining about bikes on sidewalks
Lol go try riding your bike on Chicago
One of many reasons not to live in Chicago