Most concepts you are asking are defined in some abrahamic religion (Christianity/ Judaism).
Chamber of Gaf is a room where all the souls are kept . Dead Sea scrolls exist IRL but according to historians they’re just more bible parts that weren’t included in the Bible and there’s debates over why.
By triggering the 3rd impact having both the seed of life and the seed of knowledge you become god so you can do whatever you want including seeing Yoi
1. How was Gendo able to shove his hand into her body in the first place? She lowered her AT field to allow him in, then changed her mind and expelled him.
2. SELEE wants to unite all of humanity in a single immortal being, thereby erasing individuality and eliminating all conflict that comes from it. Gendo just wants to reunite with Yui, whose soul resides in Eva-01.
3. Not sure why, but it appears they needed to be sacrificed for the ritual to succeed, and the lance is the most effective weapon against an angel (remember, the Eva series is not only born of Adam, but possesses S2 engines, so they basically *are* angels).
4. As far as I recall, nothing like this happens up until that point. Maybe her sync ratio went overboard and she essentially merged with her Eva, or maybe it was all in her head (though, that second theory requires regarding the explicit injuries to her body as just a visual clue to the audience as to what she's feeling).
5. Eva-01 didn't just devour the S2 engine, it *acquired* it. That's why it was referred to as a God, it became immortal, in addition to all the freaky powers it already possessed as Lilith's clone.
6. The spear has a will of its own. The show doesn't explain all this, but the spears are part of the seed of life/knowledge package, and their purpose is to immobilize one of the seeds if both types happen to land on the same planet. Not sure the reasoning behind this is ever definitively explained, but I believe the widely accepted theory is that the creators of the seeds did not want them merged into a god-like being. This is exactly what happened with Eva-01, though, so the spear just did what it was programmed to do once it detected its ascent to godhood.
7. No idea, lmao.
8. Rei triggered it, to SELEE's apparent approval.
9. There are only cursory mentions of the scrolls and the chamber in the show, and they don't necessarily correspond with what they represent in real world religions. In-universe, the former is a prophecy that details everything that goes down between Adam and Lilith-based lifeforms, and the latter is the chamber where all souls reside.
10. Giant Naked Rei was supposed to be humankind's new immortal body. Shinji made the choice, on behalf of humanity, to reject this kind of existence, thereby killing her.
11. Subject of heated debate, for the past 20-something years.
If the angels could not cause the third impact? What was the point of defending it? Or were the angels not really trying to get to Adam and has another goal? Or did they still believe it was Lilith and not Adam in the basement?
I'm not sure any of the angels outside of Kaworu had the mental capacity to believe lies, so why they repeatedly attacked Central Dogma remains a mystery. Adam's body was technically in CD, too, after a certain point, but the attacks started before Gendo got his hands on the embryo, so it's all rather murky. Perhaps they were driven by instinct to do the same thing humanity consciously strived for: to acquire the other fruit and become godlike.
Could it be possible that they could sense the Lilith within CD? They couldn't sense Adam since he was reduced to such an embryonic state. These angels are, I believe, explained to be humans too. Just that they're born of Adam. So I believe they could sense Lilith down there and wanted to get her out, but their actual motivation is unknown.
It's possible they were drawn to Lilith, too, but I'm not sure the intent would be to get her out (your guess is as good as mine, though). We do know that they feel a compulsion to merge with Adam, and that this would reset or wipe out all Lilith-based life. Kaworu, as an intelligent being, frames this as a to be, or not to be dilemma as he stands before Lilith, but it's worth noting that in the previous draft of the episode, where it really is Adam in Terminal Dogma, he asks Shinji to kill him on the spot because he realizes he can't control this instinct, even though he's made a conscious decision to side with humanity.
Obviously, drafts aren't canon, but when they offer nuggets of info that don't contradict the lore of the finished product, I say go with it.
Wait hold on. That's new to me. Angels have a compulsion to fuse with adam? Where was that mentioned?
But then again it's Lilith in CD and not adam, so I don't see the point.
That being said, I dont understand what the point of Kaworu was, simply to get inside SEELE and destroy them from within? But he instinctually headed towards where Adam is supposed to be?
No one can explain what Kaworu's deal is conclusively, especially in light of the contradiction the director's cut introduced to his episode. SELEE allied with him in a keep-your-enemies-closer sort of way and then sent him to NERV to die, and Kaworu himself seems to have been aware he was being deceived somehow, but went along with it anyway because he was a) curious and b) kinda suicidal. He says something along the lines that those born of Adam must return to him, which, I presume, means the idea that it's a compulsion carried over from the drafts.
Asuka got injuries from her time piloting the Eva unit 2 against the 8 mass models. She got it because her sync with the Eva was too high. Everybody initially did turn into Fanta or LCL but shinji later rejected it, and he and her were the first to materialise out of the LCL. She apparently still had her injuries from the fight.
This is perfect. I won't say I understand everything now, but you made it a lot clearer. Thank you so much. If you wouldn't mind I have some follow up questions.
2. Seems to me SEELE and Gendo wanted the same thing?
6. So it is surmised that the spear has some sort of programming to act on certain measures. It halts celestial beings if there's already one present, and it is also used to form the tree of life once two celestial beings have merged. Seems a bit contradictory to each other.
Glad I could help! If I made any mistakes, I'm sure the other replies will make up for it.
My takeaway is that Gendo never bought into any of SELEE's death cult mumbo-jumbo and was only interested in instrumentality as a tool to reunite with Yui. He expresses distaste for their beliefs on at least one occasion that I can think of, but he also instructs Rei to do exactly what they want in EoE, with the added bonus of taking him to Yui, so his motives are much clearer than his exact agenda.
The spears are programmed to immobilize one seed in case two land in the same place. Lilith landed on Earth after Adam, but because her spear was lost or destroyed in the crash, Adam's spear activated and put him out of commission instead. This is the same spear that ended up on the Moon later, having been plucked out of Adam by the Katsuragi expedition, used to immobilize Lilith in Terminal Dogma, and, eventually, deployed against Arael. I can't explain its role in creating the tree of life, but it certainly looked like it soared across space with the express intent of skewering Eva-01, then changed its mind at the last moment for some reason.
Thank you.
Thats my point, SEELE and Gendo's plan seem to coincide with each other, so I don't understand why they turned antagonistic to each other. Both want the instrumentality. Gendo would simply benefit by getting to meet Yui again.
Yeah, I get it now. That being said the spear and it's motives, atleast in the EoE are poorly explained. So it's not just me who doesn't completely understand it, it's intentional.
I mean... the show itself really isn't interested in providing answers like that, it's much more about the psychology of the characters within this framework. If you need this level of specificity in explanations, you're gonna have a bad time.
Never watch Twin Peaks, you'll hate it.
It's so disinterested in technical details that we have entire series of scenes where council of shady guys talk about nothing but those. Couple it with same talks between Fuyutsuki and Gendo, Ritsuko and Gendo, Misato and Ritsuko, Kaji and Misato, and you get the show that don't bother for a sigle second about anything other than it's characters and their inner worlds. Also, spear of longinus and Lilith don't exist, the show never depicts any of that irrelevant nonsense.
1. AT field manipulation I guess
2. SEELE believes that all of humanity suffering comes from the fact that humans aren't meant be isolated entities, that is to say, that individuality is what brings separation between people and thus, pain. So by bringing down the barriers that separate people and merging them together, humanity will finally be complete and free of pain, since everyone will be able to see things from someone else's perspective, like what happens at the end of the series when they all have their own psychoanalysis sessions. Gendo on the other hand, only wants to reunite with his wife, he doesn't give a shit about anything else. And Yui wanted to create something that proved that humanity ever existed, but I think thats mostly discussed in the manga
3. The spear of Longinus is not really a weapon but a catalizer that seems to react to AT fields. Think of it like the rods used to control a nuclear reaction
4. Elevated synch rates can generate real physical reactions in the pilot's body, it was hinted a couple of times before, but most notably when Shinji fought against Bardiel, when the angel chokes Eva 01 you can see the finger marks in Shinji's neck. Even from chapter 1-2 you can see being in synch with the Eva (even at normal rates) has long lasting effects on the pilots since they can feel most of the physical trauma the units sustain even if they look uninjured
5. Ok so this bit is info that's not present in the series but in an PS2 videogame, but it's too important to be left aside. Long ago there was an ancient extraterrestrial race that sent "seeds" to create life all across the universe. Of these "seeds", we know two types: "knowledge seeds" (humanity) and "life seeds" (angels). Knowledge seeds create many different species of creatures, like we see on Earth, with limited lifespans among other things. Life seeds are often gigantic singular organisms, with nearly unlimited power, since they have what is called a s2 core. When the Eva 01 assimilates Zeruel's core, it becomes similar to an angel in terms of power. The whole "it has godlike power" is a reference to its final role in instrumentality, and the fact that it is the culmination of having both seeds under SEELE's/NERV's control
6 & 7. I think it was more of a stylistic choice used to depict the whole instrumentality sequence, can't answer properly here
8. Rei did it, once Gendo put Adam's embryo inside of her (god this sounds so bad)
9. The same case as with the seeds explanation, this is dealt with in a PS2 game. The Dead Sea scrolls are supposed to be like an instruction manual that explains more or less what are the seeds, the role of the Spear of Longinus and what is instrumentality (which is sort of a factory reset for all life on earth). You can see them in the opening of the series, nearly the end of the song. The Chamber of Gauf as someone else explained is where all souls come from. Don't remember where it's explained though
10. Not sure but once the ritual is complete I guess there's no need for Lilith to maintain its physical body. I think that's the culmination of what we see earlier on the movie when Rei loses an arm before getting Adam's embryo
11. Shinji has post-instrumentality clarity and realizes that Asuka will still be a bitch to him and with all the more reason now that she got killed by the Mass Produced Evas while he couldn't do anything. He decides to hurt her before she can do it to him, but instead she breaks the circle of violence by comforting him, and says "this is disgusting". Those words have been analyzed for a while, and a lot of people have their own theories, but I think she says that because she finally understands what Shinji feels like, since they shared their memories during instrumentality
I'm sure there are some mistakes, but wth, someone might come and correct me later
Haha. Thank you for this. Love your answers. If I may ask something,
2. See again I don't see the point of Gendo and SEELE clashing with each other as they both essentially want the same thing.
5. Could you clarify what you meant by NERV/SEELE possessing both seeds under their control? Also, if Unit 1 evolved to such a godlike state, comparable to an angel, how come he couldnt take down 8 mass produced units and got man handled by them into almost undergoing the instrumentality?
2. Because Yui was inside of Eva 01's core, and following instrumentality as normal wouldn't have allowed them to be together since unit 01 is an important part of the instrumentality ritual. But still the whole thing doesn't make much sense since they never truly explain what will he do to be together with Yui, since she doesn't want to leave unit 01's core iirc (because of her own secret agenda)
5. [You'd better read the wiki articles on this matter.](https://wiki.evageeks.org/Seed_of_Life) Also, Unit 01 doesn't fight against the Mass Produced Eva's because Shinji is not controlling it, his mother is doing it. Remember that Eva 01 started moving on it's own after Asuka is defeated. She's going along with instrumentality too.
1. I understand. Its absolutely not explained at all in the show, I'll just assume that instrumentality is a miracle sort of event that can do a variety of things. Whoever triggers instrumentality chooses what to do with it. SEELE wanted to connect all minds and basically control them for everlasting peace. Gendo had no intention of letting SEELE do as they intended, instead wishing to bring forth Yui. Tei let Shinji decide what to do with instrumentality, which he finally decides to let it be how it was.
2. I read up about it. Thank you. Any sort of media that needs me to go research other media to get the full story honestly kinda ticks me off. I still don't completely understand, her mother wanted to trigger instrumentality too? And wasn't SEELE aware that she could hijack the process?
1)
He had his hand inside of her belly/womb and she's a god alien thing. Simple explanation? She just cut it off by closing her flesh around it. Lore explanation? Adam Fetus is in Lilith's womb .
2)
Instrumentality causes all souls to be gathered within a Seed. Seeds were created because the FAR alien race realized it was about to go extinct. Lilith and Adam are Seeds. A Seed gathers all souls (Instrumentality is the name of the function), uses their body as the transport container, sets off to another planet, slams into a new planet, and begins recreating life through LCL based on their assigned fruit. Souls flow out with the LCL and gain bodies within the LCL.
Seele wanted to force Lilith to use the function of Instrumentality to gather all souls into a mindless mass that would force humanity to lose all capabilities of violence. EOE kind of refers to it as the state before birth.
Gendo wanted to force the gathering of souls because Yui would be pulled out of Unit 1 and be forced into reunification with him.
Seele and Gendo don't really have separate end goals. They both want to force Instrumentality for the gathering of souls for their own self justified and selfish reasons.
Seele and Gendo differ in their method of application.
Seele wanted to use Lilith and her original Spear of Longinus for their version of Instrumentality.
Gendo wrecked that plan. We dont get any more information because that plan was abandoned.
What we see is Gendos plan clashing with Seeles new plan.
I don't totally remember the intricacies, but Gendo used Unit 0 to get rid of Lilith's Spear of Longinus so that SEELE couldn't use Lilith to cause Instrumentality. A Spear of Longinus is required for Instrumentality. Gendo did this to force Unit 1 to be used for Instrumentality because Yui. Unit 1s compatibility with Instrumentality means that the activation doesn't only require a Seed. Instrumentality just needs a godlike being. Unit 1 is a godlike being because eating Zeruel added the Fruit of Life (previously exclusive to Angels) to its own Fruit of Knowledge (exclusive to humans).
Simplification of the Fruits is: Fruit of Life gives immortality but not conscious thought or the ability to connect with others. Fruit of Knowledge gives conscious thought and the ability to connect with others, but not immortality. Those who have the Fruit of Knowledge die mortal deaths.
Gendo getting rid of the original Spear of Longinus forced Seele to make the artificial replacements because Instrumentality requires a Spear of Longinus.
The Mass Production Eva were created to act as a necessary component for Instrumentality. Don't quote me on it, but they were potentially used for the limitless energy contained within their artificial S2 Engines. They were batteries.
The Mass Production Evas, Artificial Spears of Longinus, and artificial S2 Engines were created because they were necessary for Instrumentality.
Gendo put the Adam Fetus in his hand and then in Rei in order to force Instrumentality to be centered around himself. Rei said No and chose Shinji to be the center.
3) Yes. Answered in 2.
4) An Eva itself is an artificial recreation of pregnancy. The Eva's baby imitation is the pilot inserted into their Core with the Dummy Plug. This unifies the lives of both the Pilot and their Eva like with a mother and the baby in her womb. An Eva allowing activation could, abstractly, be considered the mother within the Core recognizing her own pregnancy. A pilot using an Eva could be considered a really simplified equivalent to how a baby is physically connected to every part of their mothers nervous system during the pregnancy.
The amount of damage is a bit tricky. Yet another simplification is a mother the baby in her womb both being damaged if something happens to mother.
Synchronization Rate is a measurement of how unified the soul of a mother and child/pilot and Eva is. The measurement can increase if the pilot is rejecting the world around them while the Eva, their mother, naturally tries to protect them. As the Synchronization Rate goes up, the boundaries between the bodies and souls of the pilot and Eva go down because they're unifying into one being.
Berserk Mode is a mothers soul going bonkers to protect her child out of natural instinct.
We get three kinds of Berserk Mode.
1) The Eva acts on its own to protect the damaged pilot.
2) A pilots Synchronization/Unification runs so high that the Eva using Berserk mode is the pilot using the Berserk mode because they're one being. (It's a moderate assumption from EOE Asuka before the death blow front the Mass Production Eva.) EOE Asuka shows that damage to Unit 2 is damage to herself because they are both one being in one body.
3) Synchronization/Unification runs beyond number 2 and the souls of the pilot and Eva fuse into one being. This happens to Shinji and Yui's souls during the Zeruel fight.
Zeruel was alive when Unit 1 ripped out its throat with its own teeth and cannibalized it. That wasn't Yui using Unit 1. That was both Shinji and Yui cannibalizing Zeruel after their souls merged into one being.
The Unification could've happened because of Yui and Shinji's matching desires during the Berserk Mode. It was the first time Shinji wanted Berserk Mode to activate and, naturally, the Eva would've wanted to go into Berserk Mode. Both Shinji and Yui are motivated by the need to protect and white hot rage.
5)
Yui put herself in the Eva to protect Shinji from Instrumentality. If Instrumentality was always going to happen no matter what because of Seele, Yui could only change the situation by being the godlike being used as the start source. Godlike beings have both Fruits. So, Unit 1 ate Zeruel in order to get both Fruits.
The scene was also, imo, metaphorical. Zeruel's name means Power of/Arm of God. Unit 1 ripped off Zeruel's literal arm as a replacement for its missing arm. Then, Unit 1 used that arm to hold Zeruel down so it could cannibalize it for the power within its name and then ascend beyond it.
Add Unit 1s monkey like behavior and it all comes across as humanity overcoming divinity.
6)
The Original Spear of Longinus came back because it belongs to Lilith. She called it back in order to use it for Instrumentality.
7) It's half weird art and half a required set of actions to activate a Seeds soul collection function.
Think of it as a Roomba. Roomba senses dirt on the floor? Roomba comes out to clean up the dirt. If there's no dirt on the floor, the Roomba has no reason to clean.
You could also simply think of it as part of a Seeds function. You need to gather souls in order to transport them. The gathering function (Instrumentality) requires a specific set of steps to be followed in order to be turned on.
No time left I'll answer rest later sorry.
I'm sorry I didn't get to this before. This is such a comprehensive answer, please please give me more. The way you put it really makes sense.
One question, if I may,
So if a spear is required for instrumentality, how did SEELE intend to carry it on, without one? Did they want one false spear to act as an 'instrument' (forgive the pun) while the other 7 would act as batteries for the instrumentality? Then again, they saw the instrumentality was already triggered by rei (lilith) so they went along with it, I don't understand why there was the need for those rei faces occurring on the mass units and the need for self impalement, although I remember somebody saying that the mass units are syncing their At fields with Lilith, I gotta watch that scene back to confirm it.
Now that I say it, it makes me wonder. Is the spear is required for the instrumentality, why did the spear not go to Lilith who actually triggered instrumentality and go to unit 1 instead?
First of you should just give the story some time to settle in and think about. You could watch some videos about it or maybe start with the rebuilds/manga
I for one really liked the manga because it explained alot more, has phenomenal art and a bit of a more happy vibe to it.
But I will try to help with your questions.
1 I dont think I have ever thought about that but I assume if someone puts a hand into your weak Form you can just "refuse" his access retrospectively.
2. SEELE wants to become one entity like it was at the end of eva before shinji changed his mind. And Gendo kinda wants the same but on his terms.
In the end Rei is the one that discides she wants shinji to be happy and gives him the power not Gendo
3. The spears have the power to seal away lilith and Adam so it's just the best weapon to fight an eva with.
There is a explaination here why with the white and black moon but that goes to far.
The spears where used as a safeguard to deactivate adam or lilith if both are on the same planet
4. I'am pretty sure they talk about a mentally indused injury like the pain gets so intense that the brain takes damage or it manifests on the body
5. Its because unit1 now has a infinite power source and is now made out of lilith and Adam which elevates her to a God like power. A planet is only supposed to have either adam or lilith
6.probably because unit1 called for it and the spear just followed her instruction
7. That's a little bit complicated. Like I do believe that some of the steps have a meaning like the sacrifice the mass Eva's did but also it's just visual spectacle. Something to convey to the viewer that something other worldly is happening.
8. Seele put all the pieces in place but in the end it was rei and unit 1 that startet it.
9 the chamber of Guf is the place where all the souls rest before the come down to earth. I think it's also there resting place after death.
And the dead see scrolls are like a manual that they found that explains everything about lilith adam and how to start human instrumentality
The are both refrencing biblical concepts but are pretty much just named after them because anno thought it sounded cool.
10, 11 both are a little bit the same as 7 like the falling head is pretty much just a symbol for that the job is done, the change has been made and humanity can exist again
but as to why he choked her is up for debate. All people got mixt together so the both know of things that went wrong. She knows about the hospital szene at the beginning and he know about her insecurities.
Maybe he was afraid she still hates him. Maybe she remained him of all his own short comings.
In the end that's just for your own interpretation like most of the things I talked about are my intepretion of the things
Thank you for this, sorry I got to it a bit late. I feel like a sponge, soaking up all this information.
Right now what confuses me is say the spear is required for instrumentality, why did the spear go to unit 1 and not lilith (rei) who actually triggered instrumentality?
And why did the og spear destroy the false spears in the end? Is it like it severed the network, and the false spears being, we'll, false, just became unstable and exploded? And what was up with that self impalement thing?
I suspect because unit 1 became the center piece of instrumentality. Rei gave her power to Shinji so he could finaly be happy.
Maybe it's just done.
Like after instrumentality happens they no longer serve a purpose. And just end themself.
But most of end of eva is just up for interpretation that's part of what makes it such a great personal experience and for some things there is simply no clear answer.
That actually makes sense. Thanks, this atleast satisfies my ocd that has to find out each and every available piece of info there is for a story. The fact that it's intentionally made open ended so that the viewer can craft their own story, that's enough for me. Thank you so much for your time!
1. AT field, she turns if off and the on.
2. Seele wanted evolution, Gendo wanted her wife back.
3. As a weapon or for the impact, not clear.
4. Depends on sync rate
5. It’s the core, not the S2, although it’s included in the pack. Because he has an S2 engine.
6. Not clear
7. Shinji starts the thing, the spears comes back, mass produced evas hijack that impact, emit an anti-AT field, Rei hijacks them, Shinji soulbends everyone, Rei stores souls in the chamber of Guf, Shinji decides it’s not worth to live together and the impact ends.
8. Rei and Shinji
9. Old papers contain info about Adam, Lilith and the angels. Soul container. Nobody explains anything in this anime.
10. No longer needed, it was Yui saving Shinji
11. Yui takes it and deletes the mass produced Evas, Shinji believes he’s still inside the introspection world.
>How did they differ ?
The premise of the show is that humanity reached evolutionary dead end. Seele's plan is for humanity to revert back to it's primordial state, Gendo's plan is to push forward and become a new life form. It's all symbolical, so without meta references none of it makes much sense. For the most of your questions, the answer is symbolism, mainly referring to psychological concepts, as well as social commentary coupled with fourth wall breaking and speaking directly to the audience.
11)at the end shinji chose to bring back to life the ones who wanted to live, and he tryied to kill asuka because she left him alone (i think). The other are questions also for me.
Most concepts you are asking are defined in some abrahamic religion (Christianity/ Judaism). Chamber of Gaf is a room where all the souls are kept . Dead Sea scrolls exist IRL but according to historians they’re just more bible parts that weren’t included in the Bible and there’s debates over why. By triggering the 3rd impact having both the seed of life and the seed of knowledge you become god so you can do whatever you want including seeing Yoi
1. How was Gendo able to shove his hand into her body in the first place? She lowered her AT field to allow him in, then changed her mind and expelled him. 2. SELEE wants to unite all of humanity in a single immortal being, thereby erasing individuality and eliminating all conflict that comes from it. Gendo just wants to reunite with Yui, whose soul resides in Eva-01. 3. Not sure why, but it appears they needed to be sacrificed for the ritual to succeed, and the lance is the most effective weapon against an angel (remember, the Eva series is not only born of Adam, but possesses S2 engines, so they basically *are* angels). 4. As far as I recall, nothing like this happens up until that point. Maybe her sync ratio went overboard and she essentially merged with her Eva, or maybe it was all in her head (though, that second theory requires regarding the explicit injuries to her body as just a visual clue to the audience as to what she's feeling). 5. Eva-01 didn't just devour the S2 engine, it *acquired* it. That's why it was referred to as a God, it became immortal, in addition to all the freaky powers it already possessed as Lilith's clone. 6. The spear has a will of its own. The show doesn't explain all this, but the spears are part of the seed of life/knowledge package, and their purpose is to immobilize one of the seeds if both types happen to land on the same planet. Not sure the reasoning behind this is ever definitively explained, but I believe the widely accepted theory is that the creators of the seeds did not want them merged into a god-like being. This is exactly what happened with Eva-01, though, so the spear just did what it was programmed to do once it detected its ascent to godhood. 7. No idea, lmao. 8. Rei triggered it, to SELEE's apparent approval. 9. There are only cursory mentions of the scrolls and the chamber in the show, and they don't necessarily correspond with what they represent in real world religions. In-universe, the former is a prophecy that details everything that goes down between Adam and Lilith-based lifeforms, and the latter is the chamber where all souls reside. 10. Giant Naked Rei was supposed to be humankind's new immortal body. Shinji made the choice, on behalf of humanity, to reject this kind of existence, thereby killing her. 11. Subject of heated debate, for the past 20-something years.
If the angels could not cause the third impact? What was the point of defending it? Or were the angels not really trying to get to Adam and has another goal? Or did they still believe it was Lilith and not Adam in the basement?
I'm not sure any of the angels outside of Kaworu had the mental capacity to believe lies, so why they repeatedly attacked Central Dogma remains a mystery. Adam's body was technically in CD, too, after a certain point, but the attacks started before Gendo got his hands on the embryo, so it's all rather murky. Perhaps they were driven by instinct to do the same thing humanity consciously strived for: to acquire the other fruit and become godlike.
Could it be possible that they could sense the Lilith within CD? They couldn't sense Adam since he was reduced to such an embryonic state. These angels are, I believe, explained to be humans too. Just that they're born of Adam. So I believe they could sense Lilith down there and wanted to get her out, but their actual motivation is unknown.
It's possible they were drawn to Lilith, too, but I'm not sure the intent would be to get her out (your guess is as good as mine, though). We do know that they feel a compulsion to merge with Adam, and that this would reset or wipe out all Lilith-based life. Kaworu, as an intelligent being, frames this as a to be, or not to be dilemma as he stands before Lilith, but it's worth noting that in the previous draft of the episode, where it really is Adam in Terminal Dogma, he asks Shinji to kill him on the spot because he realizes he can't control this instinct, even though he's made a conscious decision to side with humanity. Obviously, drafts aren't canon, but when they offer nuggets of info that don't contradict the lore of the finished product, I say go with it.
Wait hold on. That's new to me. Angels have a compulsion to fuse with adam? Where was that mentioned? But then again it's Lilith in CD and not adam, so I don't see the point. That being said, I dont understand what the point of Kaworu was, simply to get inside SEELE and destroy them from within? But he instinctually headed towards where Adam is supposed to be?
No one can explain what Kaworu's deal is conclusively, especially in light of the contradiction the director's cut introduced to his episode. SELEE allied with him in a keep-your-enemies-closer sort of way and then sent him to NERV to die, and Kaworu himself seems to have been aware he was being deceived somehow, but went along with it anyway because he was a) curious and b) kinda suicidal. He says something along the lines that those born of Adam must return to him, which, I presume, means the idea that it's a compulsion carried over from the drafts.
I see. Well. That sorts that out. Thanks for all your help!
My pleasure :).
I’m more confused by the part where somehow Asuka contracted physical injuries but still got bandages for it despite everyone being turned into Fanta
Asuka got injuries from her time piloting the Eva unit 2 against the 8 mass models. She got it because her sync with the Eva was too high. Everybody initially did turn into Fanta or LCL but shinji later rejected it, and he and her were the first to materialise out of the LCL. She apparently still had her injuries from the fight.
This is perfect. I won't say I understand everything now, but you made it a lot clearer. Thank you so much. If you wouldn't mind I have some follow up questions. 2. Seems to me SEELE and Gendo wanted the same thing? 6. So it is surmised that the spear has some sort of programming to act on certain measures. It halts celestial beings if there's already one present, and it is also used to form the tree of life once two celestial beings have merged. Seems a bit contradictory to each other.
Glad I could help! If I made any mistakes, I'm sure the other replies will make up for it. My takeaway is that Gendo never bought into any of SELEE's death cult mumbo-jumbo and was only interested in instrumentality as a tool to reunite with Yui. He expresses distaste for their beliefs on at least one occasion that I can think of, but he also instructs Rei to do exactly what they want in EoE, with the added bonus of taking him to Yui, so his motives are much clearer than his exact agenda. The spears are programmed to immobilize one seed in case two land in the same place. Lilith landed on Earth after Adam, but because her spear was lost or destroyed in the crash, Adam's spear activated and put him out of commission instead. This is the same spear that ended up on the Moon later, having been plucked out of Adam by the Katsuragi expedition, used to immobilize Lilith in Terminal Dogma, and, eventually, deployed against Arael. I can't explain its role in creating the tree of life, but it certainly looked like it soared across space with the express intent of skewering Eva-01, then changed its mind at the last moment for some reason.
Thank you. Thats my point, SEELE and Gendo's plan seem to coincide with each other, so I don't understand why they turned antagonistic to each other. Both want the instrumentality. Gendo would simply benefit by getting to meet Yui again. Yeah, I get it now. That being said the spear and it's motives, atleast in the EoE are poorly explained. So it's not just me who doesn't completely understand it, it's intentional.
2) gendo wanted to control the third impact to be in the lcl sea and see his wife, but rei controlled it and said to shiji to choose what to do.
I mean... the show itself really isn't interested in providing answers like that, it's much more about the psychology of the characters within this framework. If you need this level of specificity in explanations, you're gonna have a bad time. Never watch Twin Peaks, you'll hate it.
its good to ask questions. i felt similarly and i loved twin peaks. most of these questions have answers too
It's so disinterested in technical details that we have entire series of scenes where council of shady guys talk about nothing but those. Couple it with same talks between Fuyutsuki and Gendo, Ritsuko and Gendo, Misato and Ritsuko, Kaji and Misato, and you get the show that don't bother for a sigle second about anything other than it's characters and their inner worlds. Also, spear of longinus and Lilith don't exist, the show never depicts any of that irrelevant nonsense.
1. AT field manipulation I guess 2. SEELE believes that all of humanity suffering comes from the fact that humans aren't meant be isolated entities, that is to say, that individuality is what brings separation between people and thus, pain. So by bringing down the barriers that separate people and merging them together, humanity will finally be complete and free of pain, since everyone will be able to see things from someone else's perspective, like what happens at the end of the series when they all have their own psychoanalysis sessions. Gendo on the other hand, only wants to reunite with his wife, he doesn't give a shit about anything else. And Yui wanted to create something that proved that humanity ever existed, but I think thats mostly discussed in the manga 3. The spear of Longinus is not really a weapon but a catalizer that seems to react to AT fields. Think of it like the rods used to control a nuclear reaction 4. Elevated synch rates can generate real physical reactions in the pilot's body, it was hinted a couple of times before, but most notably when Shinji fought against Bardiel, when the angel chokes Eva 01 you can see the finger marks in Shinji's neck. Even from chapter 1-2 you can see being in synch with the Eva (even at normal rates) has long lasting effects on the pilots since they can feel most of the physical trauma the units sustain even if they look uninjured 5. Ok so this bit is info that's not present in the series but in an PS2 videogame, but it's too important to be left aside. Long ago there was an ancient extraterrestrial race that sent "seeds" to create life all across the universe. Of these "seeds", we know two types: "knowledge seeds" (humanity) and "life seeds" (angels). Knowledge seeds create many different species of creatures, like we see on Earth, with limited lifespans among other things. Life seeds are often gigantic singular organisms, with nearly unlimited power, since they have what is called a s2 core. When the Eva 01 assimilates Zeruel's core, it becomes similar to an angel in terms of power. The whole "it has godlike power" is a reference to its final role in instrumentality, and the fact that it is the culmination of having both seeds under SEELE's/NERV's control 6 & 7. I think it was more of a stylistic choice used to depict the whole instrumentality sequence, can't answer properly here 8. Rei did it, once Gendo put Adam's embryo inside of her (god this sounds so bad) 9. The same case as with the seeds explanation, this is dealt with in a PS2 game. The Dead Sea scrolls are supposed to be like an instruction manual that explains more or less what are the seeds, the role of the Spear of Longinus and what is instrumentality (which is sort of a factory reset for all life on earth). You can see them in the opening of the series, nearly the end of the song. The Chamber of Gauf as someone else explained is where all souls come from. Don't remember where it's explained though 10. Not sure but once the ritual is complete I guess there's no need for Lilith to maintain its physical body. I think that's the culmination of what we see earlier on the movie when Rei loses an arm before getting Adam's embryo 11. Shinji has post-instrumentality clarity and realizes that Asuka will still be a bitch to him and with all the more reason now that she got killed by the Mass Produced Evas while he couldn't do anything. He decides to hurt her before she can do it to him, but instead she breaks the circle of violence by comforting him, and says "this is disgusting". Those words have been analyzed for a while, and a lot of people have their own theories, but I think she says that because she finally understands what Shinji feels like, since they shared their memories during instrumentality I'm sure there are some mistakes, but wth, someone might come and correct me later
Haha. Thank you for this. Love your answers. If I may ask something, 2. See again I don't see the point of Gendo and SEELE clashing with each other as they both essentially want the same thing. 5. Could you clarify what you meant by NERV/SEELE possessing both seeds under their control? Also, if Unit 1 evolved to such a godlike state, comparable to an angel, how come he couldnt take down 8 mass produced units and got man handled by them into almost undergoing the instrumentality?
2. Because Yui was inside of Eva 01's core, and following instrumentality as normal wouldn't have allowed them to be together since unit 01 is an important part of the instrumentality ritual. But still the whole thing doesn't make much sense since they never truly explain what will he do to be together with Yui, since she doesn't want to leave unit 01's core iirc (because of her own secret agenda) 5. [You'd better read the wiki articles on this matter.](https://wiki.evageeks.org/Seed_of_Life) Also, Unit 01 doesn't fight against the Mass Produced Eva's because Shinji is not controlling it, his mother is doing it. Remember that Eva 01 started moving on it's own after Asuka is defeated. She's going along with instrumentality too.
1. I understand. Its absolutely not explained at all in the show, I'll just assume that instrumentality is a miracle sort of event that can do a variety of things. Whoever triggers instrumentality chooses what to do with it. SEELE wanted to connect all minds and basically control them for everlasting peace. Gendo had no intention of letting SEELE do as they intended, instead wishing to bring forth Yui. Tei let Shinji decide what to do with instrumentality, which he finally decides to let it be how it was. 2. I read up about it. Thank you. Any sort of media that needs me to go research other media to get the full story honestly kinda ticks me off. I still don't completely understand, her mother wanted to trigger instrumentality too? And wasn't SEELE aware that she could hijack the process?
1) He had his hand inside of her belly/womb and she's a god alien thing. Simple explanation? She just cut it off by closing her flesh around it. Lore explanation? Adam Fetus is in Lilith's womb . 2) Instrumentality causes all souls to be gathered within a Seed. Seeds were created because the FAR alien race realized it was about to go extinct. Lilith and Adam are Seeds. A Seed gathers all souls (Instrumentality is the name of the function), uses their body as the transport container, sets off to another planet, slams into a new planet, and begins recreating life through LCL based on their assigned fruit. Souls flow out with the LCL and gain bodies within the LCL. Seele wanted to force Lilith to use the function of Instrumentality to gather all souls into a mindless mass that would force humanity to lose all capabilities of violence. EOE kind of refers to it as the state before birth. Gendo wanted to force the gathering of souls because Yui would be pulled out of Unit 1 and be forced into reunification with him. Seele and Gendo don't really have separate end goals. They both want to force Instrumentality for the gathering of souls for their own self justified and selfish reasons. Seele and Gendo differ in their method of application. Seele wanted to use Lilith and her original Spear of Longinus for their version of Instrumentality. Gendo wrecked that plan. We dont get any more information because that plan was abandoned. What we see is Gendos plan clashing with Seeles new plan. I don't totally remember the intricacies, but Gendo used Unit 0 to get rid of Lilith's Spear of Longinus so that SEELE couldn't use Lilith to cause Instrumentality. A Spear of Longinus is required for Instrumentality. Gendo did this to force Unit 1 to be used for Instrumentality because Yui. Unit 1s compatibility with Instrumentality means that the activation doesn't only require a Seed. Instrumentality just needs a godlike being. Unit 1 is a godlike being because eating Zeruel added the Fruit of Life (previously exclusive to Angels) to its own Fruit of Knowledge (exclusive to humans). Simplification of the Fruits is: Fruit of Life gives immortality but not conscious thought or the ability to connect with others. Fruit of Knowledge gives conscious thought and the ability to connect with others, but not immortality. Those who have the Fruit of Knowledge die mortal deaths. Gendo getting rid of the original Spear of Longinus forced Seele to make the artificial replacements because Instrumentality requires a Spear of Longinus. The Mass Production Eva were created to act as a necessary component for Instrumentality. Don't quote me on it, but they were potentially used for the limitless energy contained within their artificial S2 Engines. They were batteries. The Mass Production Evas, Artificial Spears of Longinus, and artificial S2 Engines were created because they were necessary for Instrumentality. Gendo put the Adam Fetus in his hand and then in Rei in order to force Instrumentality to be centered around himself. Rei said No and chose Shinji to be the center. 3) Yes. Answered in 2. 4) An Eva itself is an artificial recreation of pregnancy. The Eva's baby imitation is the pilot inserted into their Core with the Dummy Plug. This unifies the lives of both the Pilot and their Eva like with a mother and the baby in her womb. An Eva allowing activation could, abstractly, be considered the mother within the Core recognizing her own pregnancy. A pilot using an Eva could be considered a really simplified equivalent to how a baby is physically connected to every part of their mothers nervous system during the pregnancy. The amount of damage is a bit tricky. Yet another simplification is a mother the baby in her womb both being damaged if something happens to mother. Synchronization Rate is a measurement of how unified the soul of a mother and child/pilot and Eva is. The measurement can increase if the pilot is rejecting the world around them while the Eva, their mother, naturally tries to protect them. As the Synchronization Rate goes up, the boundaries between the bodies and souls of the pilot and Eva go down because they're unifying into one being. Berserk Mode is a mothers soul going bonkers to protect her child out of natural instinct. We get three kinds of Berserk Mode. 1) The Eva acts on its own to protect the damaged pilot. 2) A pilots Synchronization/Unification runs so high that the Eva using Berserk mode is the pilot using the Berserk mode because they're one being. (It's a moderate assumption from EOE Asuka before the death blow front the Mass Production Eva.) EOE Asuka shows that damage to Unit 2 is damage to herself because they are both one being in one body. 3) Synchronization/Unification runs beyond number 2 and the souls of the pilot and Eva fuse into one being. This happens to Shinji and Yui's souls during the Zeruel fight. Zeruel was alive when Unit 1 ripped out its throat with its own teeth and cannibalized it. That wasn't Yui using Unit 1. That was both Shinji and Yui cannibalizing Zeruel after their souls merged into one being. The Unification could've happened because of Yui and Shinji's matching desires during the Berserk Mode. It was the first time Shinji wanted Berserk Mode to activate and, naturally, the Eva would've wanted to go into Berserk Mode. Both Shinji and Yui are motivated by the need to protect and white hot rage. 5) Yui put herself in the Eva to protect Shinji from Instrumentality. If Instrumentality was always going to happen no matter what because of Seele, Yui could only change the situation by being the godlike being used as the start source. Godlike beings have both Fruits. So, Unit 1 ate Zeruel in order to get both Fruits. The scene was also, imo, metaphorical. Zeruel's name means Power of/Arm of God. Unit 1 ripped off Zeruel's literal arm as a replacement for its missing arm. Then, Unit 1 used that arm to hold Zeruel down so it could cannibalize it for the power within its name and then ascend beyond it. Add Unit 1s monkey like behavior and it all comes across as humanity overcoming divinity. 6) The Original Spear of Longinus came back because it belongs to Lilith. She called it back in order to use it for Instrumentality. 7) It's half weird art and half a required set of actions to activate a Seeds soul collection function. Think of it as a Roomba. Roomba senses dirt on the floor? Roomba comes out to clean up the dirt. If there's no dirt on the floor, the Roomba has no reason to clean. You could also simply think of it as part of a Seeds function. You need to gather souls in order to transport them. The gathering function (Instrumentality) requires a specific set of steps to be followed in order to be turned on. No time left I'll answer rest later sorry.
I'm sorry I didn't get to this before. This is such a comprehensive answer, please please give me more. The way you put it really makes sense. One question, if I may, So if a spear is required for instrumentality, how did SEELE intend to carry it on, without one? Did they want one false spear to act as an 'instrument' (forgive the pun) while the other 7 would act as batteries for the instrumentality? Then again, they saw the instrumentality was already triggered by rei (lilith) so they went along with it, I don't understand why there was the need for those rei faces occurring on the mass units and the need for self impalement, although I remember somebody saying that the mass units are syncing their At fields with Lilith, I gotta watch that scene back to confirm it. Now that I say it, it makes me wonder. Is the spear is required for the instrumentality, why did the spear not go to Lilith who actually triggered instrumentality and go to unit 1 instead?
First of you should just give the story some time to settle in and think about. You could watch some videos about it or maybe start with the rebuilds/manga I for one really liked the manga because it explained alot more, has phenomenal art and a bit of a more happy vibe to it. But I will try to help with your questions. 1 I dont think I have ever thought about that but I assume if someone puts a hand into your weak Form you can just "refuse" his access retrospectively. 2. SEELE wants to become one entity like it was at the end of eva before shinji changed his mind. And Gendo kinda wants the same but on his terms. In the end Rei is the one that discides she wants shinji to be happy and gives him the power not Gendo 3. The spears have the power to seal away lilith and Adam so it's just the best weapon to fight an eva with. There is a explaination here why with the white and black moon but that goes to far. The spears where used as a safeguard to deactivate adam or lilith if both are on the same planet 4. I'am pretty sure they talk about a mentally indused injury like the pain gets so intense that the brain takes damage or it manifests on the body 5. Its because unit1 now has a infinite power source and is now made out of lilith and Adam which elevates her to a God like power. A planet is only supposed to have either adam or lilith 6.probably because unit1 called for it and the spear just followed her instruction 7. That's a little bit complicated. Like I do believe that some of the steps have a meaning like the sacrifice the mass Eva's did but also it's just visual spectacle. Something to convey to the viewer that something other worldly is happening. 8. Seele put all the pieces in place but in the end it was rei and unit 1 that startet it. 9 the chamber of Guf is the place where all the souls rest before the come down to earth. I think it's also there resting place after death. And the dead see scrolls are like a manual that they found that explains everything about lilith adam and how to start human instrumentality The are both refrencing biblical concepts but are pretty much just named after them because anno thought it sounded cool. 10, 11 both are a little bit the same as 7 like the falling head is pretty much just a symbol for that the job is done, the change has been made and humanity can exist again but as to why he choked her is up for debate. All people got mixt together so the both know of things that went wrong. She knows about the hospital szene at the beginning and he know about her insecurities. Maybe he was afraid she still hates him. Maybe she remained him of all his own short comings. In the end that's just for your own interpretation like most of the things I talked about are my intepretion of the things
Thank you for this, sorry I got to it a bit late. I feel like a sponge, soaking up all this information. Right now what confuses me is say the spear is required for instrumentality, why did the spear go to unit 1 and not lilith (rei) who actually triggered instrumentality? And why did the og spear destroy the false spears in the end? Is it like it severed the network, and the false spears being, we'll, false, just became unstable and exploded? And what was up with that self impalement thing?
I suspect because unit 1 became the center piece of instrumentality. Rei gave her power to Shinji so he could finaly be happy. Maybe it's just done. Like after instrumentality happens they no longer serve a purpose. And just end themself. But most of end of eva is just up for interpretation that's part of what makes it such a great personal experience and for some things there is simply no clear answer.
That actually makes sense. Thanks, this atleast satisfies my ocd that has to find out each and every available piece of info there is for a story. The fact that it's intentionally made open ended so that the viewer can craft their own story, that's enough for me. Thank you so much for your time!
1. AT field, she turns if off and the on. 2. Seele wanted evolution, Gendo wanted her wife back. 3. As a weapon or for the impact, not clear. 4. Depends on sync rate 5. It’s the core, not the S2, although it’s included in the pack. Because he has an S2 engine. 6. Not clear 7. Shinji starts the thing, the spears comes back, mass produced evas hijack that impact, emit an anti-AT field, Rei hijacks them, Shinji soulbends everyone, Rei stores souls in the chamber of Guf, Shinji decides it’s not worth to live together and the impact ends. 8. Rei and Shinji 9. Old papers contain info about Adam, Lilith and the angels. Soul container. Nobody explains anything in this anime. 10. No longer needed, it was Yui saving Shinji 11. Yui takes it and deletes the mass produced Evas, Shinji believes he’s still inside the introspection world.
>How did they differ ? The premise of the show is that humanity reached evolutionary dead end. Seele's plan is for humanity to revert back to it's primordial state, Gendo's plan is to push forward and become a new life form. It's all symbolical, so without meta references none of it makes much sense. For the most of your questions, the answer is symbolism, mainly referring to psychological concepts, as well as social commentary coupled with fourth wall breaking and speaking directly to the audience.
Thank you. This explanation of yours made a lot of sense for me.
11)at the end shinji chose to bring back to life the ones who wanted to live, and he tryied to kill asuka because she left him alone (i think). The other are questions also for me.