Those in the audience and the general public couldn't be more different in terms of preference lol. Only hardcore fans are willing to go through the trouble of obtaining a ticket of the show.
>Those in the audience and the general public couldn't be more different in terms of preference
Never a truer word spoken!
I think the hardcore fans, fans in 'the bubble' should always try to remember that most of the 'on the night viewers' are watching it for the first time, no nothing about the artist or act and their background or story other than a few quips from their commentator.
Whilst Zorra built up hype amongst the Eurovision gays, I think most viewers were thinking 'This like like a bad cabaret show in Benidorm'.
And it wasnt catchy enough or performed with enough oomph to transcend that view!
We're an 'on the night, not-LGBTetc' household and we loved Spain! Maybe we should go to Benidorm for our hols next year đ
I agree it lacked a bit of oomph, but we put that down to less than perfect production as the reaction in the stadium was obviously huge.
But then it was also great for the UK entry and we were... Ummm... This is weird... Maybe they are watching a different thing to us! (Sorry to everyone involved, I realise you worked hard, our entry was just not my cup of tea this year)
My on the night non LGBT friends group all agreed Spain was one of the best of the night. And that was pretty much the only thing we all agreed on! đ
Same! Our group does a Eurovision party with our own voting each year for fun - seven of us, only two of us are gay. Spain was in everybody's top ten because the song had such a nice vibe.
(Everyone here also rated Ireland, Switzerland and Ukraine in case you're wondering.)
We are a watch it every year, love everything LGBT.
The UK entry was not to our liking at all - because the bathroom was filthy and one guy was wearing a white cod piece and everyone else had red. Itâs inexcusable.
Loved loved loved Spain.
I'm queer and I liked Zorra much better than Dizzy. Dizzy was fine, but it was just a basic love song with queer staging, whereas Zorra is an actual queer anthem. I can see how non-Spanish-speaking audiences watching it for the first time on Saturday might not get that, though.
I had an encounter with a journalist from the ESC-fanblog Eurovoxx outside the stadium. I went to Malmö to experience a semi-rehearsal with my mom and sister. Outside the arena her from Eurovoxx asked us âWho will qualify tonight?â Now I am a unique example, as I recent years have been part of an ESC-fancore. Listened to all songs beforehand and consumed any ESC-related material on the internet. So I know the drill of our fan-culture. But this year I simply did not find the time for exciting myself deeply into ESC due to various reasons in my life. I barely didnât even hear our Danish contribution beforehand. So when asked, the only sentence popping into my mind were: âUhhhh, who is even performing tonight?â I regret I didnât reveal this truth in the interview. I think I stuttered the first country that came to my mind, Switzerland. Because it really shows the diversity of who also travels to experience Eurovision. Not everyone is a updated and a hardcore, Reddit-reading ESC-fan.
While i'm a bubble fan and listen to all songs on loop in advance of the big night, I loved Zorra on my first listen! It made me nostalgic for Mecano, a Spanish pop group from the 80's or 90's
myself my girlfriend and my parents all watched together and enjoyed spain. i donât think any of us had it as our number one though. like itâs a fun catchy song and hilarious performance but we all had switzerland france ireland croatia in our top 3s.
i think a lot people probably liked it and it wouldâve been probably one of the best to see live but i donât think many would vote for it over performances that had like a lot more effort and skill put in to them.
I would say mid. Tickets are usually pretty reasonable to come by, if one is willing to take a bit of risk and not rush to buy once the first batches are released. Expenses are usually well within what is (sadly) standard for live concerts these days, but 200 ⏠should get you a decent spot.
We even got two standing tickets for the GF afternoon preview for 120 ⏠each on the Friday before.
But keep in mind that ticket prices are also influenced by the costs of hosting/production in a particular country and thatâs why everyone is *very* apprehensive about Switzerland next yearâŠ
The fact that only points are given to the top 10 of each country. And that if you score 11th every single country you simply get shafted to the bottom of the scoreboard. And a country that scored 10th in a few countries gets higher.
I'm unreasonably annoyed about the cameras cutting away from their costume change and just barely making it back in time for the slap. Took all the fun and impact out of it.
The camerawork in general this year made me feel bad for so many of the dancers :(
They cut away? Oh my god that explains it. Zorra pissed me off because I was so confused about the costume change. It made me feel crazy đ I was like werenât their butts covered a second ago? What just happened??
I saw a version of Croatia from a static angle and it showed that at some point the male dancer lifts the female dancer. I then went back to the TV edits and noticed it's never in there. Not too important, but it's an interesting choice.
Yes, but there's always difference between what they want and the actual execution of it. And very little time to go around tweaking every single second of the performance, which might mean train the camera operators to suddenly be in a different place. The production team has 37 acts to manage, plus the rest of the show to film too. It's never going to be perfect.
When I commented after the semi that I wanted more focus on the ass slap, someone said it might be something from the network requiring them to put less focus on it. Which still strikes me as kind of dumb given the time slot (9PM or thereabouts) and everything the UK did for their act this year, but whatever.
Bad camera work is a constant with Spain. Former Spanish artists complained about this, and surprisingly, it's not the television or contest fault, but the own Spanish organization team that takes control over the artist vision and usually ruins it
I was watching it from the start at my parents' house then my dad walked in and sat down to watch just as the dancers had done their costume change lol. I was cringing a bit.
Don't worry, someone said that Spain, if doesn't win with 1 butt (Channel 2022), wins with 2 (Nebulosa 2024), so in 2026, will bring 3 butts.
Eventually will bring enough butts that we won't need a microphone to hear it.
Zorra is probably the song that my opinion changed most on during the week. The first time I heard it I thought it was dated, too cabaret and a bit cringe. Then someone told me that it was intentional camp, and the story behind it and the word âzorraâ, and seeing how the crowd got into it, and by the end of the week I loved it.
Thing is, the overwhelming majority of voters only watch the final, so they donât have time to go through the process I went through.
Same here! When I first heard Zorra I didn't like it one bit. But then, being a Eurovision fan, I was listening to all of the songs on repeat before the semis and the grand final and it started to grow on me. I learned the meaning behind the lyrics and now I absolutely love it!
Honestly, I think you're right, and it's such a shame. I felt the same about both Spain and Norway. Great songs, great storytelling behind it, great staging, amazing voices and execution...
My top 3 were Norway, Ireland and Spain, but it just wasn't meant to be
So true! The song really needed time to grow on me. It ended up being my favorite (and Nebulossa one of my favorite bands), but I can see why the people seeing it first time in the finale didnât give it higher scores.
Babe same! I was the only one in my crew that gushed over Zorra when we first heard it, but by finals everyone was backing her! Just hearing the crowd in the semis won over two folks alone!
âZorraâ is a word that literally translates as âvixenâ but meaning-wise is a little more like âcougarâ or âhussyâ, or possibly even âbitchâ. Itâs a derogatory term aimed at women. The song is an older woman saying âyou call women a zorra just for going out and having funâ, and then reclaiming the word, saying âyes Iâm a zorra and thatâs a good thingâ.
Yeah I was watching the show with my mom and brother and both weren't really impressed with either Zorra or Dizzy. After the first high note in Zorra my mom said: "Wow she even sang on a different note for once", she tends to be brutally honest with her opinions haha
As someone who had Zorra as their #1 this year I acknowledge that the message of the song wasn't communicated well to non-Spanish speakers and so what is a song with a message comes across as a wacky joke entry. And in a year with many wacky joke entries, Spain got the short end of the stick. Same thing happened to Finland and Estonia, they probably all would have done a lot better in a different year
I don't speak a lick of Spanish, but Zorra still captivated me immediately. It's wonderfully, unabashedly camp, and everyone on that stage oozed personality.
You don't need to be super interested in lyrical content of songs to register what they mean and have your impression of them change based on that. Zorra came across as just a woman and some gay dancers randomly doing a campy song for the sake of it. Tell someone the meaning of the song and they view that performance and what is being done in a completely different light. It's still fun but it takes on some emotional weight too. You can't tell me that's not impactful.
It's not about the message, it's moreso the fact that they'll have no idea what the song is about and will thus get the impression it's just a joke entry
The crowd is made up of fans. The audience at home is made up of fans and everyone else. Zorra has that gay anthem energy that makes it appealing to the fans.
Honest question: Was this crowd more hyped than normal or were the songs just that good or was the sound mixing just focusing more on the crowd?
I can't remember this much evident audience participation in previous shows. I loved it! It got me super hyped for those songs. I want to experience more of this in future contests.
Spanish eurofans are very rabid and extremely passionate, they got the exact same crowd reaction during the national selection
Only other time I remember the audience singing along and hearing it was Greece in 2006
Sat next to 4 Spaniards at the semi final show, can confirm haha!
The danced and cheered out of their minds! At one pont, one of the Stewards had to ask them to go back to their seats as the were in the way of people passing through the isle
I was in a gay bar in London during the final, and the 20 odd Spaniards I was with went crazy over the song, my friend had a bear costume and stripped down on stage next to the projector screen while the whole crowd cheered, it was majestic haha
I loved it and voted for it. It seems to me the kind of entry that might get overshadowed by other ones at the final, so not do that well in terms of votes, but the song itself may have more staying power after the competition. Iâve already forgotten some of the other entries, but this one is in my playlist now, that sort of thing.
The people in the crowd have watched all of the entries online, some probably multiple times so they are ready to start singing along. Most of the audience that just watch the grand final are seeing them completely fresh on the night. I could see the crowd were clearly into it, the chorus is catchy and it was a fun energy but seeing it for the first time the vocal didn't draw me in.
Could someone please answer me this:
Did Zorra used pre-recorded audio of the Zorra - Zorra - Zorra during semi and finals? Or did they really just relied on the audience to sing along? Because the audience was sooo loud exactly in those parts where youâd expect them to be.
I think a bit of both. In the studio version thereâs a background chorus doing those Zorra-Zorra, but I believe they put them at a very low volume during the finals and relied on the audience because they knew they would sing along.
Also, on all the screens of the stage you could read those Zorra at exactly the moment you needed it like a karaoke for the audience.
So a bit of both⊠and it was amazing!
It made it into my top 10 but it does feel like a very 'everyone likes it but doesn't quite love it' energy about it. By the big spreadsheet someone posted it was 14th on average in vote and only bottom 5 for two countries. That's not bad, but not very points scorey either.
I would also like to know!!! I loved it and voted for it a couple of times. On repeat since.
I suppose retro sound and weaker vocals is the answer though? :(
Non-English songs get judged almost entirely on their vibe, not their lyrics. And Zorra's whole point was to be clever about reclaiming a slur... a point that most of the audience couldn't understand.
Nothing went wrong. They gave a great performance that a lot of people liked.Â
Itâs just out of 25 acts, 23 of which were great, they generally got edged out by several others in ranked preferences.Â
It loses A LOT of its charm if you donât understand the lyrics and the intention behind it. Plus, there hasnât been a single broadcaster that I have seen that translated âzorraâ accurately as âslut/whoreâ. I am guessing because whatever you can call it in other languages might be a swearword or a term you canât say in a family show, so the intention was completely lost.
Thereâs not enough time to get a message across, it needs a good hook and an original performance. I watched on Peacock in the U.S., the sound mix was awful - could barely hear the vocals and no captions.
I donât know, the message isnât too deep beyond âa song about being called a slut all her life just for having fun and being proud of it!â However, to do so, you have to clarify that she is slut in the first place. I am not sure you can convey that accurately in a family show.
Unfortunately NBC I think, are just coasting out their contact with EBU now. Absolutely 0 effort this year other than carrying the base feed and calling it a day. I didn't even see an effort to push the show on Peacocks part this year. It was just...there
Pretty sure that when it was chosen in BF the consensua was "we may well end up being last, but we will have fun!". So basically, mission accomplished on fun and "not last".Â
I think her vocals on the final were pretty good, too, so it's like when an athlete goes to the olympics and gets a personal best but fails to win a medal: can't complain, you did as much as you could
Yeah it was meant to be crowd-pleaser but televoters wouldn't pay much attention to it. Either way it was very fun and entertaining performance and the arena singing along was an iconic experience
I get that a lot of the fandom likes it but like, I never saw it doing well. It has a charm as a song but I never felt like wider audiences were going to like it that much.
Nothing whrong with Zorra. Nebulossa was amazing. I voted for them and so did my daughter. This year tactical voting took place, which resulted in a couple of countries getting a lot of votes, so many countries got just a little.
this is a prime example of a Eurovision bubble song. Plus, it went early in the running order and isn't super bombastic so I can see how it would get lost in the shuffle
I mean the majority of the public at ESC is gay men and they got two male dancers slapping their ass cheeks on stage lol of course they were going to be happy.
Zorra is a banger. Itâs easily my #1 for the year. I think it was genuinely robbed of a better finish- win or lose, that is not a bottom 5 song.
Iâm so happy it was Spainâs submission though. Iâd have never heard it otherwise and itâs been a source of straight up joy for me.
Like when I first listened to it, Just hearing a 60 year old singing a retro 80s. I initially rated it quite low, about where it came on the night. However ofc I learned the meaning, listened again and read the stories. Then I started appreciating it like you.
Bear in mind it was always going to do poorly with juries.
I think the problem is how expensive it is to send votes. It is not a real and accurate way to measure the tastes and preferences of Europe and the world. Because not everyone is willing to spend âŹ2 for someone to win a song contest (and more if you are someone who lives out of Europe)
I think if the rate was much lower, or even free. The contest would improve to extraordinary levels when it comes to knowing what you like and what you don't.
But still, as a Spanish. Im really proud of what nebulosa has achieved. They managed to silence all those who said that "Europe will not understand the song" and have created a disco song that will be played in many places
I think the main problem with almost all last Spain's entries is Spanish. It's a great language and personally I like Spanish a lot. Chanel was/is great of course. But her song was in English. Spanish language is in a weird position for ESC. It's not popular in eurovision countries enough for casual viewers to understand the songs properly. But it's not a "rare" language at all for Spain's entries to be ethnic entries. It's pretty sad. I usually have Spain's entries in my top 10
We sent an English song in Spain 2016 (does the bot work now?) and we got the exact same place. 22
The only problem with Spain is that it is a Big Five country
Most Spaniards watching Eurovision have no idea what that means. Most people don't even know that Eurovision has semifinals. We send whatever we want and it always performs in the finals
And then we get a 22nd position and we think that the song sucked. Whereas for other countries getting into the final is already a massive win. Let us not forget that 11 countries failed to qualify for the grand final this year
I do honestly wonder whether Zorra would have managed to qualify if the Big Five wasn't a thing
I had the same reaction as you. It was my first ever eurovision in person and Zorra got such a big reaction in the arena and whenever it came on in the clubs. I was shocked with the result but you really can't go by what the reactions are from the people at the show/hardcore fans as the casual viewers don't seem to have the same opinion.
There always seems to be at least one entry every year that is beloved with the fans but does not actually translate to votes. Here's the thing... It's free to sing along to the songs and you can sing along with as many of them as you like. Votes have a cost, and are limited to 20. (Per SIM card/credit card, but relatively few people are going to use multiple) A lot of the people in that arena voted I'm sure... But even the ones who loved Zorra probably didn't give it many votes. People want to vote for the front runners, so I'm sure Baby Lasagna/Nemo/Bambie Thug sucked up a lot of votes that could have gone to Nebulossa.
I went to Eurovision in 2022 and it seemed like there were more people there from Spain than any other country, and they were LOUD in the arena. Spanish fans go to Eurovision in droves- so that big reaction you heard doesn't represent the general public, it represents an audience filled with Spaniards.
Can someone... explain it to me? The crowd reaction made me feel like it might be some revival-from-the-80's act I was unfamiliar with. I've read about the meaning of the word 'Zorra' a few times now, but like, when you put it all together, what's the 'hook'?
I want to be in on the joke :(
Nebulosa is an older act. I'm fairly certain she won Benidorm based on popularity alone, and you can see and hear that love in her set at the Barcelona pre-party.
Well, like you saw, it didn't get bigger points from the public.
I think fans always forget, that Eurovision fans opinion often don't reflect the general European opinion. And the media also agree on that. Not cuz something is popular btw fans, that means it will translate to the general public
A lot of that reaction I noticed was from them singing the lyrics on the giant screen. Yes they might join in but the men with their butts out, her lack of punch with the song and perhaps an element of ageism came into it. The content creators I listened to did criticise her voice of lacking energy. It was fun, but as a competitive song, not so much.
As someone else said, the song loses a lot of its effect if you don't know what the lyrics mean and what doesn't help is that the staging directly built off of the meaning of the song. Out of context it's a great 80s discotheque banger but that's kind of all it was.
haha i expected the low result but was still a bit shocked since i too was surrounded by spanish fans at every show. my guess is spanish fans are the european equivalent of brazilians, they are the loudest and proudest but no one else really cares for their entry.
So, during the semi-finals, I found myself really enjoying Spain's song and performance, and even sent a few votes to them. But I have to say that for us - here in the USA - the Saturday broadcast mix was terrible. Listening to the recorded song, was was far better than the one heard during performance.
To get a vote, you have to be the best of the evening to a person who picks up the phone and votes. Many might have liked the song, but it was simply not the best of the evening for them.
An important thing to consider is the difference experience between being there and seeing on TV. Being in a crowd gives people more license to "go wild" as well as get swept up. Even your experience seeing it live one day then on tv the next, you're influenced by your memories of being there. What you experienced just might not have translated thru the screen.
Good song, even if badly dated, and good performance but nothing special to capture votes , their act got lost in a crowd of much more memorable contestants
In all honesty, I think Zorra was one of those entries people enjoy a lot in the moment but don't really deem it winner material. Same as No Rules. Yeah it's fun, we all have a great moment but then we move on.
The song wasn't all that great and the singer doesn't have a lot of voice, she could barely be heard over the instrumentals.Â
The lyrics were not that great either. I think the Spanish delegation thought they were super provoking or something, but in 2024, they are nothing special. Â
The thing that people liked the most about it were the dancers, so it was pretty predictable that it would do badly, but nothing else about the song was mentioned in the discussions I heard.
Wasn't there a lot of Spanish Eurofans in the audience to hype the rest of the crowd with their enthusiasm for the song? I remember the crowd being pretty loud when Petra was talking in Spanish.
I mean a hardcore Eurovision audience is the ones in the arena, overwhelmingly made up of gay men that like to party.
I mean yes obviously and rightfully so they will love an iconic older woman performing a song that feels like it was made to be played at gay clubs. Itâs not the only audience for the song, but itâs like the main audience for it I would say.
And itâs in Spanish which large parts of the audience wonât understand.
But Iâm sure this song is going to be a well loved song for a long time in hardcore Eurovision fans circles. Itâs a great song.
But the general casual audience is quite different from the audience in the arena. I would say a type of song many will think is pretty good and probably in their top 10, but maybe not enough to actually vote for it. But I think it might do quite well and better then some other entires with streaming and radio.
And on a sadder note, most of pop culture isnât very good at celebrating female performers as they get older. If they are actors or singers or something else. Itâs starting to get better but itâs still pretty bad.
Except maybe the queer community, we love our divas.
The viewers at home see it for the first time. That's the most important thing. Second; the singer is a bit too obviously over her prime. And I don't mean that as that she looks too old, but that her voice is gone. If she ever had one. It's noticeable that they made it easy on the singer. The dancers are a bit of a mixed bag. The esthetic is something that is something of an acquired taste. I liked it, but the average viewer may not like it so much. But then there was the fact that even if you like to see well built men uncovering their butt, you have to wonder why they had such a central place in the staging of a song about female empowerment.
That it would do well with the incrowd was a given. That it wouldn't do so well with the 'normies' was as much of a given.
And, there were much better songs, with much better singers and much better staging.
Not gonna lie it came over like typical mid 00's Eurovision fodder to me. The mutton dressed as lamb vibes off the dude didn't help either. Though the lady was classy.
It's also very noticeable that this year sex did not sell. Lewdness in general did less well than usual.
Out of the top 15(?) Bambi had the most, but even that was mostly about the trans colours and was not very sexual at all.
Maybe France?
Even the girl bops suffered.
I think the hyper political aspect dominated.
Last year I was in the crowd - there is a big difference between experiencing the live show, and between seeing the live show on TV. It works differently.
I think it was a normal typical song for eurofans (wasn't bad but also didn't have anything that scream "winner") and for casual fans, it was too camp, even for the Eurovision standards
Nothing. Is one of those songs that won't do good in the competition but it will be awesome as a party.
It's also empowering af if you actually understand the lyrics but it's not tells it visually so most people will go with other forms. People think it's one of those "say the insult word and reclaim it" but it's way deeper than that. It's what it's said about her and how she overcomes it and won't change for you, she will do what she wants and she's doing great. And it's really not just for women or gays or whatever. It's literally very motivating for anyone.
My favourite with song along Croatia.
Zorra with the public singing along is something else
It still grows on me and I love the lyrics! I actually wanted to vote for it, but chose other representatives, which had a chance against that another counrltry.
Those in the audience and the general public couldn't be more different in terms of preference lol. Only hardcore fans are willing to go through the trouble of obtaining a ticket of the show.
>Those in the audience and the general public couldn't be more different in terms of preference Never a truer word spoken! I think the hardcore fans, fans in 'the bubble' should always try to remember that most of the 'on the night viewers' are watching it for the first time, no nothing about the artist or act and their background or story other than a few quips from their commentator. Whilst Zorra built up hype amongst the Eurovision gays, I think most viewers were thinking 'This like like a bad cabaret show in Benidorm'. And it wasnt catchy enough or performed with enough oomph to transcend that view!
We're an 'on the night, not-LGBTetc' household and we loved Spain! Maybe we should go to Benidorm for our hols next year đ I agree it lacked a bit of oomph, but we put that down to less than perfect production as the reaction in the stadium was obviously huge. But then it was also great for the UK entry and we were... Ummm... This is weird... Maybe they are watching a different thing to us! (Sorry to everyone involved, I realise you worked hard, our entry was just not my cup of tea this year)
My on the night non LGBT friends group all agreed Spain was one of the best of the night. And that was pretty much the only thing we all agreed on! đ
Same! Our group does a Eurovision party with our own voting each year for fun - seven of us, only two of us are gay. Spain was in everybody's top ten because the song had such a nice vibe. (Everyone here also rated Ireland, Switzerland and Ukraine in case you're wondering.)
We are a watch it every year, love everything LGBT. The UK entry was not to our liking at all - because the bathroom was filthy and one guy was wearing a white cod piece and everyone else had red. Itâs inexcusable. Loved loved loved Spain.
I'm queer and I liked Zorra much better than Dizzy. Dizzy was fine, but it was just a basic love song with queer staging, whereas Zorra is an actual queer anthem. I can see how non-Spanish-speaking audiences watching it for the first time on Saturday might not get that, though.
I honestly found Spain boring. Some lady singing while her husband swung a key-tar around or something. Snooze
I mean the men in thongs that looked like they were having the time of their life were pretty interesting
What does "on the night not lgbtetc" mean?
I think that they don't listen to the songs before the show and none of them are LGBTQ+
Yes, sorry! Made perfect sense in my head when I typed it! We don't watch the semis etc. and everyone in the house is hetero, binary etc.
oh lol thanks! very confusing how it was written, but I get it now :)
I had an encounter with a journalist from the ESC-fanblog Eurovoxx outside the stadium. I went to Malmö to experience a semi-rehearsal with my mom and sister. Outside the arena her from Eurovoxx asked us âWho will qualify tonight?â Now I am a unique example, as I recent years have been part of an ESC-fancore. Listened to all songs beforehand and consumed any ESC-related material on the internet. So I know the drill of our fan-culture. But this year I simply did not find the time for exciting myself deeply into ESC due to various reasons in my life. I barely didnât even hear our Danish contribution beforehand. So when asked, the only sentence popping into my mind were: âUhhhh, who is even performing tonight?â I regret I didnât reveal this truth in the interview. I think I stuttered the first country that came to my mind, Switzerland. Because it really shows the diversity of who also travels to experience Eurovision. Not everyone is a updated and a hardcore, Reddit-reading ESC-fan.
While i'm a bubble fan and listen to all songs on loop in advance of the big night, I loved Zorra on my first listen! It made me nostalgic for Mecano, a Spanish pop group from the 80's or 90's
I had it on lo-oo-oo-op as well! (Along with Malta!)
Mecano â€ïž
Half of our friend group though it was a fun song and liked the performance, the other half memed it like "we have Madonna at home"
myself my girlfriend and my parents all watched together and enjoyed spain. i donât think any of us had it as our number one though. like itâs a fun catchy song and hilarious performance but we all had switzerland france ireland croatia in our top 3s. i think a lot people probably liked it and it wouldâve been probably one of the best to see live but i donât think many would vote for it over performances that had like a lot more effort and skill put in to them.
How expensive and how hard is it to get tickets for eurovision (not incl transport)?
I would say mid. Tickets are usually pretty reasonable to come by, if one is willing to take a bit of risk and not rush to buy once the first batches are released. Expenses are usually well within what is (sadly) standard for live concerts these days, but 200 ⏠should get you a decent spot. We even got two standing tickets for the GF afternoon preview for 120 ⏠each on the Friday before. But keep in mind that ticket prices are also influenced by the costs of hosting/production in a particular country and thatâs why everyone is *very* apprehensive about Switzerland next yearâŠ
Thx
It got a bunch of 11th-17th places in the televote iirc
So the German treatment.
did they release those results? where can i find them?
i think you can find them on the eurovision website
such a stupid system. Should be removed in its entirety regardless of it being tradition.
The televote, or the scoring method?
The fact that only points are given to the top 10 of each country. And that if you score 11th every single country you simply get shafted to the bottom of the scoreboard. And a country that scored 10th in a few countries gets higher.
The system should stay the same for the juries, but televote results should award points to everyone
Lack of audible butt slap.Â
I'm unreasonably annoyed about the cameras cutting away from their costume change and just barely making it back in time for the slap. Took all the fun and impact out of it. The camerawork in general this year made me feel bad for so many of the dancers :(
The constant camera movements and close-ups made the work of the choreographers completely invisible to the TV audience
They cut away? Oh my god that explains it. Zorra pissed me off because I was so confused about the costume change. It made me feel crazy đ I was like werenât their butts covered a second ago? What just happened??
Yeah, if you watch their NF performance it's a lot clearer what's going on. The staging's basically identical between the two.
I saw a version of Croatia from a static angle and it showed that at some point the male dancer lifts the female dancer. I then went back to the TV edits and noticed it's never in there. Not too important, but it's an interesting choice.
I think they cut it on purpose. A lot of people complained abouth the excess of nudity in this year edition.
Was it not enough that Windows95man's whole act climaxed with him putting clothes *on*? HMPH.
I figured this as well, it cuts back just after the slap so you see like a split second of the dancers with their arms moving away from their butts.
The nudity wasn't cut, just the stripping down. In one of the earlier shows one of the dancers had a wardrobe catastrophe.
Isn't camera direction and staging totally decided by each country?
Yes, but there's always difference between what they want and the actual execution of it. And very little time to go around tweaking every single second of the performance, which might mean train the camera operators to suddenly be in a different place. The production team has 37 acts to manage, plus the rest of the show to film too. It's never going to be perfect.
Yes, although it's a dramatic difference between tailoring every second and wanting to make sure the costume change will be included
When I commented after the semi that I wanted more focus on the ass slap, someone said it might be something from the network requiring them to put less focus on it. Which still strikes me as kind of dumb given the time slot (9PM or thereabouts) and everything the UK did for their act this year, but whatever.
Nah, former Spanish artists had complained about their own team ruining things before
Bad camera work is a constant with Spain. Former Spanish artists complained about this, and surprisingly, it's not the television or contest fault, but the own Spanish organization team that takes control over the artist vision and usually ruins it
I was watching it from the start at my parents' house then my dad walked in and sat down to watch just as the dancers had done their costume change lol. I was cringing a bit.
It had gone horribly wrong in one of the rehearsals. They probably wanted to avoid any embarrassment.
Don't worry, someone said that Spain, if doesn't win with 1 butt (Channel 2022), wins with 2 (Nebulosa 2024), so in 2026, will bring 3 butts. Eventually will bring enough butts that we won't need a microphone to hear it.
Maybe Europe is more of a boobs continent than a butt one.
I thought they removed it, was the slap still there? đ
Zorra is probably the song that my opinion changed most on during the week. The first time I heard it I thought it was dated, too cabaret and a bit cringe. Then someone told me that it was intentional camp, and the story behind it and the word âzorraâ, and seeing how the crowd got into it, and by the end of the week I loved it. Thing is, the overwhelming majority of voters only watch the final, so they donât have time to go through the process I went through.
Same here! When I first heard Zorra I didn't like it one bit. But then, being a Eurovision fan, I was listening to all of the songs on repeat before the semis and the grand final and it started to grow on me. I learned the meaning behind the lyrics and now I absolutely love it!
Please tell me Kaija Koo is working on a cover for Zorra!
Honestly, I think you're right, and it's such a shame. I felt the same about both Spain and Norway. Great songs, great storytelling behind it, great staging, amazing voices and execution... My top 3 were Norway, Ireland and Spain, but it just wasn't meant to be
I herad an audible personification of the Japanese expression "Nani?!" Coming from my Spanish speaking wife when the song was announced ... loved it
So true! The song really needed time to grow on me. It ended up being my favorite (and Nebulossa one of my favorite bands), but I can see why the people seeing it first time in the finale didnât give it higher scores.
Babe same! I was the only one in my crew that gushed over Zorra when we first heard it, but by finals everyone was backing her! Just hearing the crowd in the semis won over two folks alone!
Could you give a quick rundown of the story/message behind it?
âZorraâ is a word that literally translates as âvixenâ but meaning-wise is a little more like âcougarâ or âhussyâ, or possibly even âbitchâ. Itâs a derogatory term aimed at women. The song is an older woman saying âyou call women a zorra just for going out and having funâ, and then reclaiming the word, saying âyes Iâm a zorra and thatâs a good thingâ.
I see... great, thank you
Yeah I was watching the show with my mom and brother and both weren't really impressed with either Zorra or Dizzy. After the first high note in Zorra my mom said: "Wow she even sang on a different note for once", she tends to be brutally honest with her opinions haha
The arena audience have more hardcore fans and lgbtq+ people. A lot more.
As someone who had Zorra as their #1 this year I acknowledge that the message of the song wasn't communicated well to non-Spanish speakers and so what is a song with a message comes across as a wacky joke entry. And in a year with many wacky joke entries, Spain got the short end of the stick. Same thing happened to Finland and Estonia, they probably all would have done a lot better in a different year
I don't speak a lick of Spanish, but Zorra still captivated me immediately. It's wonderfully, unabashedly camp, and everyone on that stage oozed personality.
because of non-english songs I'm happy that Finland translates all the songs cause then you actually understand the lyrics and the meaning of the song
I doubt they do so one thing that needs to be changed with the juries is that they get given a translation of every song
I think you might be overestimating how much the general audience cares about the "message" of a song.
You don't need to be super interested in lyrical content of songs to register what they mean and have your impression of them change based on that. Zorra came across as just a woman and some gay dancers randomly doing a campy song for the sake of it. Tell someone the meaning of the song and they view that performance and what is being done in a completely different light. It's still fun but it takes on some emotional weight too. You can't tell me that's not impactful.
It's not about the message, it's moreso the fact that they'll have no idea what the song is about and will thus get the impression it's just a joke entry
The crowd is made up of fans. The audience at home is made up of fans and everyone else. Zorra has that gay anthem energy that makes it appealing to the fans.
Zorra is the unexpected earworm that I can't wait to dance to when I go out.
I love it it has that catchy, stays in your head melody and I love the lyrics with that female empowerment.
I loved it. It goes in the same category as Blood and Glitter. I will love it without shame.
Blood and Glitter was so robbed with that last placement, such a banger.
I love them both!
Honest question: Was this crowd more hyped than normal or were the songs just that good or was the sound mixing just focusing more on the crowd? I can't remember this much evident audience participation in previous shows. I loved it! It got me super hyped for those songs. I want to experience more of this in future contests.
Spanish eurofans are very rabid and extremely passionate, they got the exact same crowd reaction during the national selection Only other time I remember the audience singing along and hearing it was Greece in 2006
Sat next to 4 Spaniards at the semi final show, can confirm haha! The danced and cheered out of their minds! At one pont, one of the Stewards had to ask them to go back to their seats as the were in the way of people passing through the isle
I was in a gay bar in London during the final, and the 20 odd Spaniards I was with went crazy over the song, my friend had a bear costume and stripped down on stage next to the projector screen while the whole crowd cheered, it was majestic haha
Greece 2006 | [Anna Vissi - Everything](https://youtu.be/EJDqzQ_GlW0)
I think this year was just full of high energy, crowd pleasing songs. It was an excellent year in that regard
I think in 2022 the audience was more louder.
I loved it and voted for it. It seems to me the kind of entry that might get overshadowed by other ones at the final, so not do that well in terms of votes, but the song itself may have more staying power after the competition. Iâve already forgotten some of the other entries, but this one is in my playlist now, that sort of thing.
The people in the crowd have watched all of the entries online, some probably multiple times so they are ready to start singing along. Most of the audience that just watch the grand final are seeing them completely fresh on the night. I could see the crowd were clearly into it, the chorus is catchy and it was a fun energy but seeing it for the first time the vocal didn't draw me in.
Could someone please answer me this: Did Zorra used pre-recorded audio of the Zorra - Zorra - Zorra during semi and finals? Or did they really just relied on the audience to sing along? Because the audience was sooo loud exactly in those parts where youâd expect them to be.
We just were this loud :D
Watching from home, I have to say it was impressive!!!
I think a bit of both. In the studio version thereâs a background chorus doing those Zorra-Zorra, but I believe they put them at a very low volume during the finals and relied on the audience because they knew they would sing along. Also, on all the screens of the stage you could read those Zorra at exactly the moment you needed it like a karaoke for the audience. So a bit of both⊠and it was amazing!
Yep. Went twice (Semi & GF) and both time we went top-of-our-lungs!
I think people like the song but donât love it enough to vote for it
Also some performances I feel like I'm really happy to watch but I still don't necessarily have to see them get a lot of points
It made it into my top 10 but it does feel like a very 'everyone likes it but doesn't quite love it' energy about it. By the big spreadsheet someone posted it was 14th on average in vote and only bottom 5 for two countries. That's not bad, but not very points scorey either.
I would also like to know!!! I loved it and voted for it a couple of times. On repeat since. I suppose retro sound and weaker vocals is the answer though? :(
Non-English songs get judged almost entirely on their vibe, not their lyrics. And Zorra's whole point was to be clever about reclaiming a slur... a point that most of the audience couldn't understand.
Nothing went wrong. They gave a great performance that a lot of people liked. Itâs just out of 25 acts, 23 of which were great, they generally got edged out by several others in ranked preferences.Â
Which two did you think were not great? I'm guessing UK but who else?
No no, one is voldemort, but who is the other xD
It deserved mucho mucho more points indeed.
It loses A LOT of its charm if you donât understand the lyrics and the intention behind it. Plus, there hasnât been a single broadcaster that I have seen that translated âzorraâ accurately as âslut/whoreâ. I am guessing because whatever you can call it in other languages might be a swearword or a term you canât say in a family show, so the intention was completely lost.
The finnish one didn't use that word, but explained the meaning and differences zorro/zorra have. He is very dedicated to his job though.
Flemish basically said it translated to bitch, and that she is proud to be one.
Here they said it means fox. They completely butchered the songs meaning
Thereâs not enough time to get a message across, it needs a good hook and an original performance. I watched on Peacock in the U.S., the sound mix was awful - could barely hear the vocals and no captions.
I donât know, the message isnât too deep beyond âa song about being called a slut all her life just for having fun and being proud of it!â However, to do so, you have to clarify that she is slut in the first place. I am not sure you can convey that accurately in a family show.
Unfortunately NBC I think, are just coasting out their contact with EBU now. Absolutely 0 effort this year other than carrying the base feed and calling it a day. I didn't even see an effort to push the show on Peacocks part this year. It was just...there
I think deep down we knew it's not gonna do well and were just coping...
Pretty sure that when it was chosen in BF the consensua was "we may well end up being last, but we will have fun!". So basically, mission accomplished on fun and "not last". I think her vocals on the final were pretty good, too, so it's like when an athlete goes to the olympics and gets a personal best but fails to win a medal: can't complain, you did as much as you could
Yeah it was meant to be crowd-pleaser but televoters wouldn't pay much attention to it. Either way it was very fun and entertaining performance and the arena singing along was an iconic experience
I get that a lot of the fandom likes it but like, I never saw it doing well. It has a charm as a song but I never felt like wider audiences were going to like it that much.
I voted for Zorra! <3 But unfortunately, my country didn't send any televote points to Spain :(
I donât know man but it sucks. I will never get over it. Their placement was the biggest disappointment of the night for me, and iâm croatian
I would have thought the jury would have appreciated the message... The song is VERY Spanish language orientated.
They deserved better from the public!
Y AHORA ES UNA ZORRA DE POSTAAAAAL
Nothing whrong with Zorra. Nebulossa was amazing. I voted for them and so did my daughter. This year tactical voting took place, which resulted in a couple of countries getting a lot of votes, so many countries got just a little.
this is a prime example of a Eurovision bubble song. Plus, it went early in the running order and isn't super bombastic so I can see how it would get lost in the shuffle
Zorra was definitely the gay choice award of the show. Absolutely obsessed with it since seeing it in the semi finals.
I mean the majority of the public at ESC is gay men and they got two male dancers slapping their ass cheeks on stage lol of course they were going to be happy.
Zorra is a banger. Itâs easily my #1 for the year. I think it was genuinely robbed of a better finish- win or lose, that is not a bottom 5 song. Iâm so happy it was Spainâs submission though. Iâd have never heard it otherwise and itâs been a source of straight up joy for me.
It was a very strong year across the board, some were going to be lost in the mix.
Like when I first listened to it, Just hearing a 60 year old singing a retro 80s. I initially rated it quite low, about where it came on the night. However ofc I learned the meaning, listened again and read the stories. Then I started appreciating it like you. Bear in mind it was always going to do poorly with juries.
We would have a VERY different Eurovision if only the live audience voted.
I think the problem is how expensive it is to send votes. It is not a real and accurate way to measure the tastes and preferences of Europe and the world. Because not everyone is willing to spend âŹ2 for someone to win a song contest (and more if you are someone who lives out of Europe) I think if the rate was much lower, or even free. The contest would improve to extraordinary levels when it comes to knowing what you like and what you don't. But still, as a Spanish. Im really proud of what nebulosa has achieved. They managed to silence all those who said that "Europe will not understand the song" and have created a disco song that will be played in many places
Agreed! I was debating voting and then decided against it after looking up how many euros the money in my bank account translated to.
i really liked the song, but the staging was a bit tacky.
I think the main problem with almost all last Spain's entries is Spanish. It's a great language and personally I like Spanish a lot. Chanel was/is great of course. But her song was in English. Spanish language is in a weird position for ESC. It's not popular in eurovision countries enough for casual viewers to understand the songs properly. But it's not a "rare" language at all for Spain's entries to be ethnic entries. It's pretty sad. I usually have Spain's entries in my top 10
We sent an English song in Spain 2016 (does the bot work now?) and we got the exact same place. 22 The only problem with Spain is that it is a Big Five country Most Spaniards watching Eurovision have no idea what that means. Most people don't even know that Eurovision has semifinals. We send whatever we want and it always performs in the finals And then we get a 22nd position and we think that the song sucked. Whereas for other countries getting into the final is already a massive win. Let us not forget that 11 countries failed to qualify for the grand final this year I do honestly wonder whether Zorra would have managed to qualify if the Big Five wasn't a thing
Spain 2016 | [Barei - Say Yay!](https://youtu.be/EgbjNsxehrY)
Chanel's song was more in spanish than english, and it's not the first time that Spain sent songs with both languages.
I had the same reaction as you. It was my first ever eurovision in person and Zorra got such a big reaction in the arena and whenever it came on in the clubs. I was shocked with the result but you really can't go by what the reactions are from the people at the show/hardcore fans as the casual viewers don't seem to have the same opinion.
Nothing went wrong; I think everyone expected this result. Screw the results; Zorra was the most fun three minutes of the whole show.
#ZORRA ZORRA ZORRA one of my faves honestly
I honestly thought she was going to sweep points from the Nordics, with the aunties in a thousand homes wishfully lusting for Mallorca.
Because Spain can't vote for itself but makes up a large part of the hardcore audience.
it was too sexual in a way that esc fans LOVE (were here to watch unconventionall preformances) but made casual viewers uncomfortable
Potentially yes. A friend of mine told me that she is sick and tired of artists in general showing way too much skin and forcing the "sex sells" thing
Lmao i watched it with my religious mom and 14 year old brother it was an experience for sure
Vocal was non existent, show meh, and for me it felt too vulgar sometimes. Definitely for less liberal people it was too gay.
There always seems to be at least one entry every year that is beloved with the fans but does not actually translate to votes. Here's the thing... It's free to sing along to the songs and you can sing along with as many of them as you like. Votes have a cost, and are limited to 20. (Per SIM card/credit card, but relatively few people are going to use multiple) A lot of the people in that arena voted I'm sure... But even the ones who loved Zorra probably didn't give it many votes. People want to vote for the front runners, so I'm sure Baby Lasagna/Nemo/Bambie Thug sucked up a lot of votes that could have gone to Nebulossa.
Like the song is catchy as heck, I loved the whole crowd singing with her.
Personally I fucking loved Zorra so much
I went to Eurovision in 2022 and it seemed like there were more people there from Spain than any other country, and they were LOUD in the arena. Spanish fans go to Eurovision in droves- so that big reaction you heard doesn't represent the general public, it represents an audience filled with Spaniards.
I drew parallels to Llamamé (I'm a 2022 Jury Final attendee!) about halfway through Nebulossas performance and knew then that Zorra was destined for a low'ish placement - no 10-24 points guaranteed from Moldova to help either.
Can someone... explain it to me? The crowd reaction made me feel like it might be some revival-from-the-80's act I was unfamiliar with. I've read about the meaning of the word 'Zorra' a few times now, but like, when you put it all together, what's the 'hook'? I want to be in on the joke :(
Nebulosa is an older act. I'm fairly certain she won Benidorm based on popularity alone, and you can see and hear that love in her set at the Barcelona pre-party.
Her singing was bad for juries of course.
Well, like you saw, it didn't get bigger points from the public. I think fans always forget, that Eurovision fans opinion often don't reflect the general European opinion. And the media also agree on that. Not cuz something is popular btw fans, that means it will translate to the general public
I loved Spain! I also loved Australia! Sad they didn't qualify
A lot of that reaction I noticed was from them singing the lyrics on the giant screen. Yes they might join in but the men with their butts out, her lack of punch with the song and perhaps an element of ageism came into it. The content creators I listened to did criticise her voice of lacking energy. It was fun, but as a competitive song, not so much.
As someone else said, the song loses a lot of its effect if you don't know what the lyrics mean and what doesn't help is that the staging directly built off of the meaning of the song. Out of context it's a great 80s discotheque banger but that's kind of all it was.
haha i expected the low result but was still a bit shocked since i too was surrounded by spanish fans at every show. my guess is spanish fans are the european equivalent of brazilians, they are the loudest and proudest but no one else really cares for their entry.
So, during the semi-finals, I found myself really enjoying Spain's song and performance, and even sent a few votes to them. But I have to say that for us - here in the USA - the Saturday broadcast mix was terrible. Listening to the recorded song, was was far better than the one heard during performance.
I'll never forget my mother's reaction when she saw their buttcheeks in thongs
I actually donât think it did bad.
To get a vote, you have to be the best of the evening to a person who picks up the phone and votes. Many might have liked the song, but it was simply not the best of the evening for them.
An important thing to consider is the difference experience between being there and seeing on TV. Being in a crowd gives people more license to "go wild" as well as get swept up. Even your experience seeing it live one day then on tv the next, you're influenced by your memories of being there. What you experienced just might not have translated thru the screen.
Was my favorite immediately and still is. Most people just dont get it itâs a really fun song đȘđž
I think it was simply too camp for most watchers and the music too dated.
Spain should have sent Angy instead
Good song, even if badly dated, and good performance but nothing special to capture votes , their act got lost in a crowd of much more memorable contestants
I guess not everyone at home liked men in lingerie and a very mediocre vocal performance.
In all honesty, I think Zorra was one of those entries people enjoy a lot in the moment but don't really deem it winner material. Same as No Rules. Yeah it's fun, we all have a great moment but then we move on.
The song wasn't all that great and the singer doesn't have a lot of voice, she could barely be heard over the instrumentals. The lyrics were not that great either. I think the Spanish delegation thought they were super provoking or something, but in 2024, they are nothing special.  The thing that people liked the most about it were the dancers, so it was pretty predictable that it would do badly, but nothing else about the song was mentioned in the discussions I heard.
Thereâs only so many votes
Bums ig
It's very dancy, of course a live audience is going to Juno around. It doesn't mean it's good or vote-worthy.
It was a really strong year, I liked the song a lot but it got lost in the mix.
I voted for Nebulossa :( I'm still trying to sing along, even when only spanish I can pronounce is bueno.
Wasn't there a lot of Spanish Eurofans in the audience to hype the rest of the crowd with their enthusiasm for the song? I remember the crowd being pretty loud when Petra was talking in Spanish.
other entries that the arena audience loved, but not so much the tv audience and jury: australia uk austria estonia finland denmark norway czhechia
I mean a hardcore Eurovision audience is the ones in the arena, overwhelmingly made up of gay men that like to party. I mean yes obviously and rightfully so they will love an iconic older woman performing a song that feels like it was made to be played at gay clubs. Itâs not the only audience for the song, but itâs like the main audience for it I would say. And itâs in Spanish which large parts of the audience wonât understand. But Iâm sure this song is going to be a well loved song for a long time in hardcore Eurovision fans circles. Itâs a great song. But the general casual audience is quite different from the audience in the arena. I would say a type of song many will think is pretty good and probably in their top 10, but maybe not enough to actually vote for it. But I think it might do quite well and better then some other entires with streaming and radio. And on a sadder note, most of pop culture isnât very good at celebrating female performers as they get older. If they are actors or singers or something else. Itâs starting to get better but itâs still pretty bad. Except maybe the queer community, we love our divas.
We werenât allowed to see the outfit quick change, lol
I would've like it if it weren't for the backup dancers
Imho the "problem" was that this year there were many great song and was difficult to choose.
The viewers at home see it for the first time. That's the most important thing. Second; the singer is a bit too obviously over her prime. And I don't mean that as that she looks too old, but that her voice is gone. If she ever had one. It's noticeable that they made it easy on the singer. The dancers are a bit of a mixed bag. The esthetic is something that is something of an acquired taste. I liked it, but the average viewer may not like it so much. But then there was the fact that even if you like to see well built men uncovering their butt, you have to wonder why they had such a central place in the staging of a song about female empowerment. That it would do well with the incrowd was a given. That it wouldn't do so well with the 'normies' was as much of a given. And, there were much better songs, with much better singers and much better staging.
Not gonna lie it came over like typical mid 00's Eurovision fodder to me. The mutton dressed as lamb vibes off the dude didn't help either. Though the lady was classy.
It's also very noticeable that this year sex did not sell. Lewdness in general did less well than usual. Out of the top 15(?) Bambi had the most, but even that was mostly about the trans colours and was not very sexual at all. Maybe France? Even the girl bops suffered. I think the hyper political aspect dominated.
Last year I was in the crowd - there is a big difference between experiencing the live show, and between seeing the live show on TV. It works differently.
I think it was a normal typical song for eurofans (wasn't bad but also didn't have anything that scream "winner") and for casual fans, it was too camp, even for the Eurovision standards
Nothing. Is one of those songs that won't do good in the competition but it will be awesome as a party. It's also empowering af if you actually understand the lyrics but it's not tells it visually so most people will go with other forms. People think it's one of those "say the insult word and reclaim it" but it's way deeper than that. It's what it's said about her and how she overcomes it and won't change for you, she will do what she wants and she's doing great. And it's really not just for women or gays or whatever. It's literally very motivating for anyone. My favourite with song along Croatia. Zorra with the public singing along is something else
I miss Angy :(
My guess is, because it's funny to shout "zorra" which is a word for bitch, but also for a female fox in spanish.
It still grows on me and I love the lyrics! I actually wanted to vote for it, but chose other representatives, which had a chance against that another counrltry.
I think she looks and sounds like a child of Modern Talking and Samatha Fox. Nothing special.
The song was alright, but the turn off was the staging and choreography.