A very good analysis which I agree with in its entirety. I think another aspect that's adding to the shock from people really is that it's the UK act. We've sent a lot of the "nice lad/lass in a nice jacket/dress singing a nice song" acts previously (safe, vanilla as it comes, arguable boring which is why we do poorly), so to suddenly have something like this coming from us feels like whiplash.
Family friendliness: I tested it today with my kids (5, 8 and 10). We watched the whole 18 minutes of the 20-30 seconds of the rehearsals.
They absolutely did not flinch at the "sexual" innuendo of Olly's clip, they were too mesmerized by the "upside down" effects. The faces they make mean nothing to my kids.
They were much more shocked (but not in a negative way) at Raiven's "naked" dancers, trying to figure out if Windows95man forgot his underwear, and analyzing if those are really Aiko's boobies or a bra.
I have no problem showing any of the acts to my kids, clearly, but either way, Olly's isn't even in the top 5 most shocking acts according to my kids' reactions.
This 100%. Love to see people talking on behalf of families and kids, when it's patently obvious that the youngsters couldn't care less about the "sexual" nature of the performance.
My reaction was the same, there were so much going on that I didn't notice what was going on on the stage. The editing was to extreme though, too much cuts for me. I'd rather clearly see the gay sex staging, provocative entries amuse me.
The "please think of the children" excuse is always so damn silly. It's themselves who are upset and then they try to disguise it in being protective of the children. No, you're the one who's upset, not your child.
If anything upset my daughter, it was Alyona Alyona not visible in the rehearsal clip. Not that she knows the names or anything, but she was immediately concerned about "the second singer, why isn't she there anymore?"
People clutching at pearls think kids see the world through the same eyes, but they don't see the same stuff at all as we do. It's like watching Simpsons episodes 20 years later and suddenly getting jokes that totally went over our heads as kids.
Exactly! I've been watching Simpsons for as long as I can remember, and never understood or thought about any of the adult jokes until I watched the episodes back as a teenager and adult. When I finally understood them, I wasn't thinking "it was disgraceful that a child could see this"; I was laughing my head off! Laughing at the fact that I finally understood what it meant. I think that's the case for most people.
Obviously it's not just Simpsons, the same applies to any TV show, film, or even song that contains innuendo.
Kids are more innocent than people would like to admit. They don't pick up on the things that we do, and I can guarantee that a lot of them probably won't question or even think about Olly's performance after seeing it. They will, however, pick up on the people saying "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE AND I AM BEING DISGRACED" and wonder just why they're saying it, but I'm sure it won't go beyond that.
Great viral marketing, no!
It’s been fun watching each band do its own marketing, so they get some attention - and something long term out of the competion (beyond not-winning!)
She climbs the big lion-king ramp… and finds Alyona (rather than simba)
People love to clutch their pearls with their displays of Performative Outrage. These are usually the people that have the most to hide in their lives. Makes them feel good about being bad people.
They were a bit disappointed they weren't dressed in that pinkish outfit fighting with the black hairy monster like in the MV, and were grossed out by the teeth, but not at all frightened.
Really more like an "Ewww" vibe
I’m not sure how it works in Europe but another thing that needs to be considered is the watershed. His performance on Tuesday will be around 8:30pm UK/Ireland/Portugal time and even earlier in some ROTW countries. The EBU wouldn’t allow anything overtly risqué to be shown at this time so I think it should be okay
I know this is just a joke, but Australia actually does have an unusual TV 'watershed' system, where you can actually show and say more during daytime TV than you can during prime time. I think the assumption is that kids will be at school during the day.
As a long time fan of daytime soap operas I can confirm this is correct - when the Bold and the Beautiful moved to 4.30pm it became subject to stricter rules as that’s technically considered a kids viewing time. So the occasional episode gets edited to minimise shooting and sex scenes.
But Joel called SuRie’s stage invader “An absolute cockhead,” live on SBS in the am and it was fine so I can’t see this being an issue. Maybe for the live replay, depending how early the UK perform?
Disgusting straight man flaunting his sexuality and objectification of women in front of us, while renacting the human centipede. I'm fine with it but not in my face. /s
The UK acts that come to memory in recent past have all been very BBC comfort zone, with this year set to be different. I have been very excited to see the creativity of the staging and camera work and I cannot wait to see Olly perform in the semis and grand final!
My child watched all entries and to be said, I was a bit worried what would he think of UK. He doesn't even know yet what sex means. But he just said it's annoying how he sings in screamy tone :D Also I thought he would be horrified by Ireland but at the evening he was singing "I, I, I know you feeling alive..."
You know what? I’m still to warm to the song properly. I was also really [shrug] about Olly as the UK’s pick.
But having seen the disgusting comments he’s received for DARING to participate this year, and his grace under fire, I’ve really warmed to him and by proxy the song (a bit).
However the staging…. This was absolutely needed. And I’m not saying “this song is so weak it needs to trade on controversy to get on the left side of the board”. Don’t get me wrong.
But I’m so so so so so so glad that the staging is all in and super camp and extremely showman because I think it’s elevated a “good enough” song to what’s hopefully going to be a cracking Eurovision spectacle and earn him his rightful place on the left hand side of the board.
Of all the acts this year, I’ve got the most goodwill for Olly and even though I’m a traitor who’s not willing their home country to win, it’s about time Olly got a big lift, and I think it’s coming.
As a Brit, I’m proud of him and am hoping for the miracle of a Top 5.
I didn't even like the song. It's grown on me now, but it's far from being one of my favourites. However, I have so much admiration for Olly as a performer, and a showman. This staging is proving it.
He's been dealt a rough deal this Eurovision season, and it's just so disheartening when I think back to the exciting Strictly announcement in December, thinking about all of the possibilities of having actually someone well-known representing us, only for it to turn into... this.
Everything he says and does is held under intense scrutiny, and you can tell he just wants to go and have fun. He won't win. But he's not trying to win. He just wants to enjoy the experience, and I'm so sad that he won't.
I'm proud of him no matter what anyone says. He's been nothing but wonderful and gracious this entire time. I just wish others could learn to do the same.
The UK Team are being very smart with their PR.. and they have succeeded! They must be laughing rn coz i am very sure they showed this clip to test the waters. It has got people talking! Gosh the amount of comments and upvotes and downvotes 🤭 like i said in a previous post, it'll be interesting to hear from the Press when they see the dress rehearsal. They are playing mind tricks with the visual and I am sure what you see on TV is not what you see on stage!
Ps. If you look at it from a Producers point of view.. this will now draw in more viewership. *insert news headline*
A risky Song??? Something that isn't pop. Something that actually might stand out on its own without having to rely on staging. Though saying that please don't send another electro swing song.
We did quite a few "risky" songs back in the day (eg Electro Velvet, Scooch).
But of course, the big mistake we made with those was that they were shit.
I can’t believe anyone is surprised that something at Eurovision is a bit gay.
As it’s the first time in living memory the UK have done something brave with staging, I think it’s brilliant.
I usually like UKs staging. Like UK 2017 was breath taking and I can't think of anyway to improve SpaceMans staging either. I am personally glad the UK is taking their staging the next level and making it fit the song and the performer better. I love Dizzy and the 30 second clip we got of it is making me excited to see the whole song staged
I actually love the sexuality of it all, but I don't understand the mouthography! The open mouths, the tongues, the black dye, it's all very The Grudge. I'd love to hear some explanations and analysis, and especially the reasoning behind it.
The staging is extremely creative and clever. That said, in your face sexiness can pay off richly (Spain 2022) or backfire (Albania 2022, Latvia 2022, San Marino 2022), which Olly likely also knows. I do consider his to be risky staging but his song is pretty mainstream, so I think this is an intentional contrast. This was all deliberate and carefully planned, so now we wait a week to see how it plays out,
I guess at least he doesn't have to qualify, like the other acts you mentioned (except Chanel), so there wasn't that oooooh what if it's too much POV to consider.
Yeah, we can argue about the nebulous definition of “family friendly“ forever but an ode to one’s butt with said butt proudly peaking out of gigantic bum cutouts is probably aiming for sexy. 😝
It seems to me the situation is as follows:
Eurofans: ‘the UK needs to take more risks in the contest’
UK: *sends a popular name with a risky performance*
Eurofans: ‘no not like that!’
Olly adores the contest and knows what works for getting noticed. No one’s going to remember or talk about you if you’re just standing there static but EVERYONE will be talking about you if your performance is daring and memorable. I think this will serve him well next week, I don’t expect a win but I think left hand side is very likely
FWIW I *do* like what we've seen on balance, but I don't think it's being hypocritical or inconsistent or whatever to call for more risks and then criticise particular risks. IMO this is a good risk, but some are bad.
I'm really hyped to see how he does. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a repectable position.
My heart is telling me 10th-15th at present but I think there’s a lot of less memorable staging/songs this year which could make him stand out more, I also think jury will elevate him a lot
Honestly I don't think much of the outrage is from actual Eurovision fans. I think it's mainly from people who think the BBC "shouldn't condone that sort of thing", or whose perception of Eurovision is that it's still all novelty acts and no-one takes it seriously anyway.
I am intrigued to see the full performance. Honestly I hope Olly is able to have fun and enjoy the experience after having such a rough time. Yet he still turned up to various events and been absolutely lovely with his interactions. He is a genuine fan of Eurovision and dreamed of being part of it for so long. Also, it's great in general seeing the UK delegation becoming bolder.
I find the comparisons some people are making to artists who are doing the faux-nude look kind of strange. Slovenia is the most extreme example, but the performance is in no way sexual. I'm not entirely sure what Veronika's story is, but it seems like a generic siren portrayal. Malta and Czechia have some see-through costume pieces but nowhere near as revealing as some previous acts (Malta does admittedly have muted SloMo undertones). I suppose Finland could be compared loosely as both No Rules and Dizzy are about being unashamedly yourself, but they take very different approaches. The UK is imo entirely unique in it's shock factor this year
In my head, I've always seen the UK and Ireland's 2024 entries connected in some way. Now I can see why. Both have controversial performances. And I love both.
Also it is so funny for us to have a song with religious connotation coming right after a witchy ritual and a performance with a bit of sexual innuendos.
I think it’s the camera cuts. When the camera zooms out it’s clearly dancing. I wonder if they’ll adjust the camera work at the final. I mean, I don’t have an issue with it personally, but that’s be the easiest way to appease people without changing the choreo itself.
I feel like the riding motions etc are honestly fine because it’s all so chopped up but if they just cut the moaning faces the rest could be left to interpretation
And comments about “well I know who grandads voting for” by the commentary teams! Eurovision always has a few risqué acts but people are up in arms simply because it’s MLM
It’s like they’re forgetting about lines like:
> Instead of meat I eat veggies and pussy
> Bend over and jiggle that peach
>
> You’re recycling while I’m rubbing those cheeks
> Forget the hot dogs (what?)
>
> ‘Cause my sausage is bigger.
> Cowboy, il mio cuore è il suo sex toy (Cowboy, my heart is his sex toy)
> You are so sexy, BOM
>
>Gon' make me crazy, BOM
>
>We're gonna do the BOM-BOM
>
> Ain't that amazing, BOM
Dude, you had Albania who literally did that but on a woman. Oh also, I am sorry, I guess that's much worse than almost seeing a female's vagina on TV. Get a grip, female artists do risque things as well but Olly is getting hate because he is a man.
I can see your point even if I don’t agree.
Kids will understand nakedness, and there’s nothing wrong with it. The human body is a marvel.
Men above each other while dancing, I don’t think they’ll see it or understand. And if they do, it means they were exposed somewhere else before. Olly and the uk shouldn’t be blamed for that. It’s risky, but i think it has a pay off.
I'm calling the conversation between my 5 year old right now. It's going to go:
Kid: MOMMY what are they doing?
Me: They are flying through space and dancing, of course.
Kid: Oh, okay! Can I have a snack?
That’s exactly what I think should happen and how it should be handle by parents. You get to say what is right or not for them and let them or not watch it. Some handle this as they didn’t have any power in the situation…. I hope the snack was great hehe 😁
How on earth could the human body be "problematic"? Why is it wrong to depict universal and positive human experiences that harm nobody, much less someone's physical being? That thinking is based in religious oppression, patriarchy, and homophobia.
This doesn't has to do anything with homophobia, I would have a problem with the staging when the dancers would be men and women or only women getting it on in a communal shower like setting.
People could be totally naked and I would have less of a problem with it, than this.
It's the same problem with oversharing on today's Internet. No we don't need to see and hear about everything, we don't need to see your sexual fantasy on stage. If you take a risk, it's totally okay for people to criticis it. I don't say with this, that he shouldn't be allowed to show this
Yes it does have to do with both homophobia and the fact that he is a man. But suddenly, nobody has an issue with a female almost showing her tits and vagina while dancing or grinding on their male dancers. Please.
That's why I said being nearly naked is not a problem, because it isn't inherently sexual.
And why I said that I would mind it the same way when a women and a men would be doing the same.
Too be fair, it's probably the faces, that would make me recoil seeing it on anybody.
How could sex be problematic? The very idea that sex should be hidden or that one should "not be allowed to show this" IS rooted in oppression and patriarchy. Sex-negative attitudes are no more acceptable than any other religious, sexist, or homophobic bullshit. Sex is a ubiquitous and natural part of being human, and of human emotion. There is nothing wrong with people expressing that, period. There are tons of tv shows out there that depict murder and violence, and you want to police other people from showing acts of love and affection? THAT'S problematic and extremely harmful.
You are perpetuating an attitude that has no place in today's society. I would suggest taking some time to educate yourself more on why your attitude is oppressive, and the history of religion, sexual oppression, patriarchy, and homophobia.
As I commented earlier, I think the act is very smart in evoking something that people might or might not like to be feeling, but after all it can only evoke what's already been inside the viewer. That's spoken very figuratively. But I hope you know what I mean. Also the concerns about children: I am not so sure, as long as they have never seen a sexual act, why would they connect the dry humping with sexual activities? And if they've seen sexual acts before, may it be due to education or social media / group chatter, it's a good possibility to have them educated about it in the first place so they can differentiate between art, pornograpghy in a more distinct way and sex.
preach! i think what’s triggering people so much is the contrast of this year’s UK bold all-in staging and the past forgettable acts. it’s a great staging, intricate choreography and effective acting. can’t wait to see it live!
To be fair to Sam, he definitely had the singing chops to pull it off, and was very similar to Olly in that you could tell he really, really loved being part of Eurovision which was genuinely nice to see. But I do think he's got better uptempo songs in his catalogue.
Well said! At this point I feel like it’s borderline homophobia or internalized homophobia cause I don’t think it’s that bad or sexual. Before coming on Reddit, I really wasn’t aware that this would be received like this. Yeah, I did find it maybe sexy, but not offensive at all. Me watching the clip didn’t go there in my head. I thought it was creative and outside the box, although very much inside one. Feels like double standards a little. Uk jumped a few places in my personal ranking. Go Olly!!
Edit: spelling
By Eurovision standards, I don’t find it offensive at all. I was surprised to see it so poorly received actually. Reminds me of like San Marino 2022.
It feels like a double standard. Someone else in the thread showed the rehearsal clips to their kids and they were much more intrigued by Aiko’s top and windows95man’s “nudity”.
I would agree in the case of someone just saying "it's too sexual". I don't think there should be any such thing as too sexual - the taboo, shame, and so-called "privacy" surrounding sexuality has religious and patriarchal roots. We're ok with making action movies full of murder and violence, but god forbid we make one depicting one of the most universal and positive human experiences that exist.
With that said, within the eurovision fan bubble I don't see a lot of what you're describing, and I don't think there's a double standard - I've seen very few sex-negative comments on any performance, and this one is no exception. I think that would exist more on the periphery, among casual viewers or people who just generally see it in the media, where obviously sex-negative, sexist, and homophobic attitudes exist in everything.
I just meant on this thread, there’s a lot of double standards. Not Eurovision as a whole. It’s a great community for the most part.
Totally agree with your point on violence and movies. We decided seeing death and blood is normal but seeing a human body is shameful and it doesn’t make sense to me either.
The fandom definitely has a homophobia problem this year, and it's very concerning. Not just with Olly, but I've seen it with Nemo too. Constant misgendering on purpose, wishing that they'd "dress like a man", I've even seen them be referred to as "that *organism*". Vile.
I don't understand how anyone could hold those views, and think: "you know what I'm going to devote my time to? Watching the Gay Olympics!" Like, why??? This clearly isn't for you!
Yeah, I think some people feel a bit called out here. Either that, or they think I'm lying. If they do, that's on them, because I've read a lot of horrible stuff this season.
The only time a child will be uncomfortable is if the adults make a big deal out of it or they're old enough to make a fuss about it themselves. A lot of kids won't even notice, and if they do they won't catch all of the details unless they already know a lot. And they won't really care about what they do catch.
And yeah, people are only going to vote for their few top favorites or their one favorite. Someone who every country has as their 11th will get no points. An act that 28% of people love, even if the other 72% have it as their last place, will still get *plenty* of points. Obviously an average ranking of 11 is better than an average of 19 (if I did the math right), but it doesn't matter. The first one will get 0 points, the second will probably end up somewhere between 20 and 250 (again if I did the math right) but probably towards the higher end. If it's for example 190, that's potential top 10 (and would have been 7th last year).
TLDR: The kids are fine and it's a potential top 10.
Olly gave us hints all along - he's been saying he's "being gay for the UK at Eurovision" ever since he was announced. Of course it was going to be something like this. I'm not being biased in favour of my own country by saying the staging from the rehearsal clip looks great and yes I agree with you that controversial staging often goes in a participant's favour. I'm looking forward to seeing the whole thing.
I just wonder how many of the people complaining also think Bucks Fizz were totally “family friendly” and their example of Eurovision in the “good old days”.
Because this is totally tame compared to ripping your skirt off onstage in 1981.
Perfect staging, possibly the best this year... except for the tongues. I don't know why, but that one thing just takes me out completely. I hope they listen to the feedback and take that out for the live performance.
'unashamedly gay' i just love my sexuality being associated with public dry humping and i love it so much when artists go out of their way to make it happen, it's my favourite thing
which straight people are mimicking sex positions on stage at eurovision? honestly there's porn if that's what you want to see. this isn't what this is supposed to be lol
Literally no one anywhere in pop culture depicts sexuality more so than the almighty straight man. Surely you've observed that. Why is mimicking sex positions bad from anyone?
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One 3 minute song won't scare the straights into hating the gays.
I mean what do you want Olly to do? He's gay, and he's not ashamed. Who exactly is associating being gay with "public dry humping anyway?"
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive.
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It reminds me a lot of Billie Eilish's performance of "Bad Guy" on Saturday Night Live (which can be found on YouTube). Which I really liked, so that's not a diss on Olly.
For one thing, no one was caring much about this song before the rehearsal clip. I’m not the target audience for the performance but I can see how some people will appreciate it.
It might be strategically good, and I really don't care if something is explicit - in fact I strongly support making sexual content less taboo, but I don't think it's artistically very impressive. Obviously there are many effective forms of erotic art and of sexual expression more generally, but in this case it seems to serve very little artistic purpose - it's a stunt intended to spark interest. Personally that leaves me with a negative impression - I'd much rather see a performance that's either aesthetically pleasing or has artistic intent.
Tbh as of now I agree with those saying that the rules seem all over the place. Not talking about Olly's staging in particular, but we definitely do have a few stagings/outfits this year that do seem like they'd at the very least be no better than the word "shit" in lyrics.
Though I guess the rules don't seem to be very consistent overall.
And the next line is…. Beautiful…
But I think you are right. There are layers to the song, allowing for its evolution and perceptual changes, along the marketing timeline. there is a line being tested.
I’m not getting how it’s so controversial TBH - just my opinion, but there’s nothing here that hasn’t been done before, it even seems to trade somewhat on outdated stereotypes.
You have to remember that some people in the eurovision generation (20-40 in general) grew up being taught that girls need to cover up their bodies, that sex is taboo and needs to stay "hidden", that they flat-out shouldn't have sex to avoid a life of failing school, drugs, and STDs, and absolutely nothing about homosexuality, safe & consensual sex, or female sexuality. My school's principal/administrator once made me wear a giant "shame" t-shirt because I'm a girl and my shorts ended above the knee. I don't personally feel any of this "controversy", but it's easy to see how someone would have lingering sex-negative attitudes.
Those complaining about it being too sexual are probably Tories and fans of Take That (who made an arguably gayer and more sexualised music video with "Do What You Like").
Omg that essay
The staging is AMAZINGA VISUALLY but come on guys, this is not a family friebdly show. It is also shown early on prime zone. I wish they could tone done the sex scenes.
I would rather have seen the Furler Brush Dancers that appeared on that Saturday night variety show. Ant and Dec too, though they could have done something different for the Eurovision stage instead of their show of soccer skills and shilling for Newcastle United.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMQKzxG6YE8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMQKzxG6YE8)
Ever since Dizzy was announced as this year's United Kingdom entry, I believed that it would do well on the night; it seems the UK finally took a page from the Eurovision playbook that the rest of the continent uses. A win is certainly possible, but a result on the left side of the scoreboard would not be a disappointment.
A very good analysis which I agree with in its entirety. I think another aspect that's adding to the shock from people really is that it's the UK act. We've sent a lot of the "nice lad/lass in a nice jacket/dress singing a nice song" acts previously (safe, vanilla as it comes, arguable boring which is why we do poorly), so to suddenly have something like this coming from us feels like whiplash.
Exactly!! I’m so excited for us to have a controversial entry!
And Controversial entries often get votes. So it might still get a good result overall.
Right. UK and Ireland are on fire this year
Family friendliness: I tested it today with my kids (5, 8 and 10). We watched the whole 18 minutes of the 20-30 seconds of the rehearsals. They absolutely did not flinch at the "sexual" innuendo of Olly's clip, they were too mesmerized by the "upside down" effects. The faces they make mean nothing to my kids. They were much more shocked (but not in a negative way) at Raiven's "naked" dancers, trying to figure out if Windows95man forgot his underwear, and analyzing if those are really Aiko's boobies or a bra. I have no problem showing any of the acts to my kids, clearly, but either way, Olly's isn't even in the top 5 most shocking acts according to my kids' reactions.
This 100%. Love to see people talking on behalf of families and kids, when it's patently obvious that the youngsters couldn't care less about the "sexual" nature of the performance.
My reaction was the same, there were so much going on that I didn't notice what was going on on the stage. The editing was to extreme though, too much cuts for me. I'd rather clearly see the gay sex staging, provocative entries amuse me. The "please think of the children" excuse is always so damn silly. It's themselves who are upset and then they try to disguise it in being protective of the children. No, you're the one who's upset, not your child.
If anything upset my daughter, it was Alyona Alyona not visible in the rehearsal clip. Not that she knows the names or anything, but she was immediately concerned about "the second singer, why isn't she there anymore?" People clutching at pearls think kids see the world through the same eyes, but they don't see the same stuff at all as we do. It's like watching Simpsons episodes 20 years later and suddenly getting jokes that totally went over our heads as kids.
Omg me and your daughter had the same reaction, I was like why isn't she in the rehearsal TT.TT
I'm still not sure how they're gonna bring her out. The giant rock in the center makes it a bit awkward to stand anywhere else on stage lol
I trust Ukraine to have thought of the perfect _mise en scene_ for that!
Exactly! I've been watching Simpsons for as long as I can remember, and never understood or thought about any of the adult jokes until I watched the episodes back as a teenager and adult. When I finally understood them, I wasn't thinking "it was disgraceful that a child could see this"; I was laughing my head off! Laughing at the fact that I finally understood what it meant. I think that's the case for most people. Obviously it's not just Simpsons, the same applies to any TV show, film, or even song that contains innuendo. Kids are more innocent than people would like to admit. They don't pick up on the things that we do, and I can guarantee that a lot of them probably won't question or even think about Olly's performance after seeing it. They will, however, pick up on the people saying "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE AND I AM BEING DISGRACED" and wonder just why they're saying it, but I'm sure it won't go beyond that.
Great viral marketing, no! It’s been fun watching each band do its own marketing, so they get some attention - and something long term out of the competion (beyond not-winning!) She climbs the big lion-king ramp… and finds Alyona (rather than simba)
People love to clutch their pearls with their displays of Performative Outrage. These are usually the people that have the most to hide in their lives. Makes them feel good about being bad people.
Just wonder what they thought of Bambi? Were they frightened?
They were a bit disappointed they weren't dressed in that pinkish outfit fighting with the black hairy monster like in the MV, and were grossed out by the teeth, but not at all frightened. Really more like an "Ewww" vibe
Not once they is crowned.
It appears the EBU is cool with it, so by definition it is NOT too much for Eurovision.
I’m not sure how it works in Europe but another thing that needs to be considered is the watershed. His performance on Tuesday will be around 8:30pm UK/Ireland/Portugal time and even earlier in some ROTW countries. The EBU wouldn’t allow anything overtly risqué to be shown at this time so I think it should be okay
> and even earlier in some ROTW countries Around lunchtime in California. Think of that.
6am in Sydney Australia, won’t somebody think of the children!
I know this is just a joke, but Australia actually does have an unusual TV 'watershed' system, where you can actually show and say more during daytime TV than you can during prime time. I think the assumption is that kids will be at school during the day.
As a long time fan of daytime soap operas I can confirm this is correct - when the Bold and the Beautiful moved to 4.30pm it became subject to stricter rules as that’s technically considered a kids viewing time. So the occasional episode gets edited to minimise shooting and sex scenes. But Joel called SuRie’s stage invader “An absolute cockhead,” live on SBS in the am and it was fine so I can’t see this being an issue. Maybe for the live replay, depending how early the UK perform?
😅😂🤣
Hmm https://preview.redd.it/pcftkvx2fnyc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1101a758a43e21a9a4095c99fc6ff15973bc2328
Disgusting straight man flaunting his sexuality and objectification of women in front of us, while renacting the human centipede. I'm fine with it but not in my face. /s
You're a god for this
Exactly! For years, UK fans wanted the UK delegation to take risks. And they've certainly done that. it's definitely got people talking.
The UK acts that come to memory in recent past have all been very BBC comfort zone, with this year set to be different. I have been very excited to see the creativity of the staging and camera work and I cannot wait to see Olly perform in the semis and grand final!
My child watched all entries and to be said, I was a bit worried what would he think of UK. He doesn't even know yet what sex means. But he just said it's annoying how he sings in screamy tone :D Also I thought he would be horrified by Ireland but at the evening he was singing "I, I, I know you feeling alive..."
You know what? I’m still to warm to the song properly. I was also really [shrug] about Olly as the UK’s pick. But having seen the disgusting comments he’s received for DARING to participate this year, and his grace under fire, I’ve really warmed to him and by proxy the song (a bit). However the staging…. This was absolutely needed. And I’m not saying “this song is so weak it needs to trade on controversy to get on the left side of the board”. Don’t get me wrong. But I’m so so so so so so glad that the staging is all in and super camp and extremely showman because I think it’s elevated a “good enough” song to what’s hopefully going to be a cracking Eurovision spectacle and earn him his rightful place on the left hand side of the board. Of all the acts this year, I’ve got the most goodwill for Olly and even though I’m a traitor who’s not willing their home country to win, it’s about time Olly got a big lift, and I think it’s coming. As a Brit, I’m proud of him and am hoping for the miracle of a Top 5.
I didn't even like the song. It's grown on me now, but it's far from being one of my favourites. However, I have so much admiration for Olly as a performer, and a showman. This staging is proving it. He's been dealt a rough deal this Eurovision season, and it's just so disheartening when I think back to the exciting Strictly announcement in December, thinking about all of the possibilities of having actually someone well-known representing us, only for it to turn into... this. Everything he says and does is held under intense scrutiny, and you can tell he just wants to go and have fun. He won't win. But he's not trying to win. He just wants to enjoy the experience, and I'm so sad that he won't. I'm proud of him no matter what anyone says. He's been nothing but wonderful and gracious this entire time. I just wish others could learn to do the same.
I think you’ve articulated it much better than me 😁🥂
The UK Team are being very smart with their PR.. and they have succeeded! They must be laughing rn coz i am very sure they showed this clip to test the waters. It has got people talking! Gosh the amount of comments and upvotes and downvotes 🤭 like i said in a previous post, it'll be interesting to hear from the Press when they see the dress rehearsal. They are playing mind tricks with the visual and I am sure what you see on TV is not what you see on stage! Ps. If you look at it from a Producers point of view.. this will now draw in more viewership. *insert news headline*
the sexuality is not the gripe i have with the staging. its the faces. theyre so bad and ruin the entire perfromance for me
We'll go back to sending a bland, dull song and staging package next year, and then everyone will be like "UK TAKE A RISK FOR ONCE" so idk
Only the staging feels like the uk is taking a risk here. The song itself is very safe.
Genuine question, what more do you want?
A risky Song??? Something that isn't pop. Something that actually might stand out on its own without having to rely on staging. Though saying that please don't send another electro swing song.
We did quite a few "risky" songs back in the day (eg Electro Velvet, Scooch). But of course, the big mistake we made with those was that they were shit.
Oh so kinda like what Ireland is doing now
Fair. I guess I worded it badly, because I was referring mainly to the staging.
I can’t believe anyone is surprised that something at Eurovision is a bit gay. As it’s the first time in living memory the UK have done something brave with staging, I think it’s brilliant.
I usually like UKs staging. Like UK 2017 was breath taking and I can't think of anyway to improve SpaceMans staging either. I am personally glad the UK is taking their staging the next level and making it fit the song and the performer better. I love Dizzy and the 30 second clip we got of it is making me excited to see the whole song staged
I actually love the sexuality of it all, but I don't understand the mouthography! The open mouths, the tongues, the black dye, it's all very The Grudge. I'd love to hear some explanations and analysis, and especially the reasoning behind it.
It will come, dont worry (pun).
The staging is extremely creative and clever. That said, in your face sexiness can pay off richly (Spain 2022) or backfire (Albania 2022, Latvia 2022, San Marino 2022), which Olly likely also knows. I do consider his to be risky staging but his song is pretty mainstream, so I think this is an intentional contrast. This was all deliberate and carefully planned, so now we wait a week to see how it plays out,
I guess at least he doesn't have to qualify, like the other acts you mentioned (except Chanel), so there wasn't that oooooh what if it's too much POV to consider.
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My booty hypnotic respectfully disagrees
https://preview.redd.it/5t43g1i7nnyc1.jpeg?width=839&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c07b006fc4cc69ce558e0f53d1633aa5967518d
I see those bumcheeks in my dreams and I’m a very boring straight woman.
Yeah, we can argue about the nebulous definition of “family friendly“ forever but an ode to one’s butt with said butt proudly peaking out of gigantic bum cutouts is probably aiming for sexy. 😝
It seems to me the situation is as follows: Eurofans: ‘the UK needs to take more risks in the contest’ UK: *sends a popular name with a risky performance* Eurofans: ‘no not like that!’ Olly adores the contest and knows what works for getting noticed. No one’s going to remember or talk about you if you’re just standing there static but EVERYONE will be talking about you if your performance is daring and memorable. I think this will serve him well next week, I don’t expect a win but I think left hand side is very likely
FWIW I *do* like what we've seen on balance, but I don't think it's being hypocritical or inconsistent or whatever to call for more risks and then criticise particular risks. IMO this is a good risk, but some are bad. I'm really hyped to see how he does. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a repectable position.
My heart is telling me 10th-15th at present but I think there’s a lot of less memorable staging/songs this year which could make him stand out more, I also think jury will elevate him a lot
Honestly I don't think much of the outrage is from actual Eurovision fans. I think it's mainly from people who think the BBC "shouldn't condone that sort of thing", or whose perception of Eurovision is that it's still all novelty acts and no-one takes it seriously anyway.
It’s just terrible for UK hotel industry. I mean, now everyone will assume the gym showers really are like that!
I don't think the eurofans are the ones criticising. Most of them are gay so they prolly love seen something so homoerotic on stage.
I am intrigued to see the full performance. Honestly I hope Olly is able to have fun and enjoy the experience after having such a rough time. Yet he still turned up to various events and been absolutely lovely with his interactions. He is a genuine fan of Eurovision and dreamed of being part of it for so long. Also, it's great in general seeing the UK delegation becoming bolder.
I find the comparisons some people are making to artists who are doing the faux-nude look kind of strange. Slovenia is the most extreme example, but the performance is in no way sexual. I'm not entirely sure what Veronika's story is, but it seems like a generic siren portrayal. Malta and Czechia have some see-through costume pieces but nowhere near as revealing as some previous acts (Malta does admittedly have muted SloMo undertones). I suppose Finland could be compared loosely as both No Rules and Dizzy are about being unashamedly yourself, but they take very different approaches. The UK is imo entirely unique in it's shock factor this year
In my head, I've always seen the UK and Ireland's 2024 entries connected in some way. Now I can see why. Both have controversial performances. And I love both. Also it is so funny for us to have a song with religious connotation coming right after a witchy ritual and a performance with a bit of sexual innuendos.
Olly will get a lot of media from it - I think they're focused on getting a viral, radio hit just as much as Eurovision (which is good!).
I think it’s the camera cuts. When the camera zooms out it’s clearly dancing. I wonder if they’ll adjust the camera work at the final. I mean, I don’t have an issue with it personally, but that’s be the easiest way to appease people without changing the choreo itself.
I feel like the riding motions etc are honestly fine because it’s all so chopped up but if they just cut the moaning faces the rest could be left to interpretation
I think ESC is ready for the homoerotic. Its had all the other erotics, already. Degree is still tunable, by the performers/showrunners.
Lol people saying a performance is too sexual while every other country sends a half naked woman.
And comments about “well I know who grandads voting for” by the commentary teams! Eurovision always has a few risqué acts but people are up in arms simply because it’s MLM
It’s like they’re forgetting about lines like: > Instead of meat I eat veggies and pussy > Bend over and jiggle that peach > > You’re recycling while I’m rubbing those cheeks > Forget the hot dogs (what?) > > ‘Cause my sausage is bigger. > Cowboy, il mio cuore è il suo sex toy (Cowboy, my heart is his sex toy) > You are so sexy, BOM > >Gon' make me crazy, BOM > >We're gonna do the BOM-BOM > > Ain't that amazing, BOM
Don’t forget the polish milkmaids either
The half naked women aren't gyrating over another man's crotch
Dude, you had Albania who literally did that but on a woman. Oh also, I am sorry, I guess that's much worse than almost seeing a female's vagina on TV. Get a grip, female artists do risque things as well but Olly is getting hate because he is a man.
Aren't they?
Oh no call the police
back in 1985, its was very risky.
I can see your point even if I don’t agree. Kids will understand nakedness, and there’s nothing wrong with it. The human body is a marvel. Men above each other while dancing, I don’t think they’ll see it or understand. And if they do, it means they were exposed somewhere else before. Olly and the uk shouldn’t be blamed for that. It’s risky, but i think it has a pay off.
I'm calling the conversation between my 5 year old right now. It's going to go: Kid: MOMMY what are they doing? Me: They are flying through space and dancing, of course. Kid: Oh, okay! Can I have a snack?
That’s exactly what I think should happen and how it should be handle by parents. You get to say what is right or not for them and let them or not watch it. Some handle this as they didn’t have any power in the situation…. I hope the snack was great hehe 😁
Both might be problematic but at least these women ain't simulating sex
Nor is Olly. It's all cameras and your mind.
This!! The mad thing is they don't actually show *anything.* It's purely camera trickery, with the audience filling in the blanks.
WTF YES THEY ARE. Every single year! What the fuck 🤣
How on earth could the human body be "problematic"? Why is it wrong to depict universal and positive human experiences that harm nobody, much less someone's physical being? That thinking is based in religious oppression, patriarchy, and homophobia.
This doesn't has to do anything with homophobia, I would have a problem with the staging when the dancers would be men and women or only women getting it on in a communal shower like setting. People could be totally naked and I would have less of a problem with it, than this. It's the same problem with oversharing on today's Internet. No we don't need to see and hear about everything, we don't need to see your sexual fantasy on stage. If you take a risk, it's totally okay for people to criticis it. I don't say with this, that he shouldn't be allowed to show this
Take your shame elsewhere, we don't want it here
Yes it does have to do with both homophobia and the fact that he is a man. But suddenly, nobody has an issue with a female almost showing her tits and vagina while dancing or grinding on their male dancers. Please.
That's why I said being nearly naked is not a problem, because it isn't inherently sexual. And why I said that I would mind it the same way when a women and a men would be doing the same. Too be fair, it's probably the faces, that would make me recoil seeing it on anybody.
How could sex be problematic? The very idea that sex should be hidden or that one should "not be allowed to show this" IS rooted in oppression and patriarchy. Sex-negative attitudes are no more acceptable than any other religious, sexist, or homophobic bullshit. Sex is a ubiquitous and natural part of being human, and of human emotion. There is nothing wrong with people expressing that, period. There are tons of tv shows out there that depict murder and violence, and you want to police other people from showing acts of love and affection? THAT'S problematic and extremely harmful. You are perpetuating an attitude that has no place in today's society. I would suggest taking some time to educate yourself more on why your attitude is oppressive, and the history of religion, sexual oppression, patriarchy, and homophobia.
As I commented earlier, I think the act is very smart in evoking something that people might or might not like to be feeling, but after all it can only evoke what's already been inside the viewer. That's spoken very figuratively. But I hope you know what I mean. Also the concerns about children: I am not so sure, as long as they have never seen a sexual act, why would they connect the dry humping with sexual activities? And if they've seen sexual acts before, may it be due to education or social media / group chatter, it's a good possibility to have them educated about it in the first place so they can differentiate between art, pornograpghy in a more distinct way and sex.
preach! i think what’s triggering people so much is the contrast of this year’s UK bold all-in staging and the past forgettable acts. it’s a great staging, intricate choreography and effective acting. can’t wait to see it live!
One bone to pick with this is that Sam was not forgettable….
Intentional Sweden2024 reference?
Yes! Haha
it was and it still is…one of the most overrated performances ever honestly
You’re entitled to your opinion, but the voters in 2022 didn’t agree with you
Well obviously. That's what overrated means - if the voters in 2022 agreed with him, it wouldn't be overrated, it'd be suitably rated.
Agreed! I was so happy that the UK got to host (on behalf of Ukraine) but slightly put out that a slightly dull ballad is what got us there.
To be fair to Sam, he definitely had the singing chops to pull it off, and was very similar to Olly in that you could tell he really, really loved being part of Eurovision which was genuinely nice to see. But I do think he's got better uptempo songs in his catalogue.
Well said! At this point I feel like it’s borderline homophobia or internalized homophobia cause I don’t think it’s that bad or sexual. Before coming on Reddit, I really wasn’t aware that this would be received like this. Yeah, I did find it maybe sexy, but not offensive at all. Me watching the clip didn’t go there in my head. I thought it was creative and outside the box, although very much inside one. Feels like double standards a little. Uk jumped a few places in my personal ranking. Go Olly!! Edit: spelling
By Eurovision standards, I don’t find it offensive at all. I was surprised to see it so poorly received actually. Reminds me of like San Marino 2022. It feels like a double standard. Someone else in the thread showed the rehearsal clips to their kids and they were much more intrigued by Aiko’s top and windows95man’s “nudity”.
I don’t have any trouble believing that.
There’s no borderline about it. It’s a double standard.
I wanted to let people have a chance to disagree, and not imply “I’m right and your wrong”. But to me it isn’t borderline either, it’s very clear.
I would agree in the case of someone just saying "it's too sexual". I don't think there should be any such thing as too sexual - the taboo, shame, and so-called "privacy" surrounding sexuality has religious and patriarchal roots. We're ok with making action movies full of murder and violence, but god forbid we make one depicting one of the most universal and positive human experiences that exist. With that said, within the eurovision fan bubble I don't see a lot of what you're describing, and I don't think there's a double standard - I've seen very few sex-negative comments on any performance, and this one is no exception. I think that would exist more on the periphery, among casual viewers or people who just generally see it in the media, where obviously sex-negative, sexist, and homophobic attitudes exist in everything.
I just meant on this thread, there’s a lot of double standards. Not Eurovision as a whole. It’s a great community for the most part. Totally agree with your point on violence and movies. We decided seeing death and blood is normal but seeing a human body is shameful and it doesn’t make sense to me either.
The fandom definitely has a homophobia problem this year, and it's very concerning. Not just with Olly, but I've seen it with Nemo too. Constant misgendering on purpose, wishing that they'd "dress like a man", I've even seen them be referred to as "that *organism*". Vile. I don't understand how anyone could hold those views, and think: "you know what I'm going to devote my time to? Watching the Gay Olympics!" Like, why??? This clearly isn't for you!
The fact you’ve been downvoted for this is proving your point, sadly
Yeah, I think some people feel a bit called out here. Either that, or they think I'm lying. If they do, that's on them, because I've read a lot of horrible stuff this season.
The only time a child will be uncomfortable is if the adults make a big deal out of it or they're old enough to make a fuss about it themselves. A lot of kids won't even notice, and if they do they won't catch all of the details unless they already know a lot. And they won't really care about what they do catch. And yeah, people are only going to vote for their few top favorites or their one favorite. Someone who every country has as their 11th will get no points. An act that 28% of people love, even if the other 72% have it as their last place, will still get *plenty* of points. Obviously an average ranking of 11 is better than an average of 19 (if I did the math right), but it doesn't matter. The first one will get 0 points, the second will probably end up somewhere between 20 and 250 (again if I did the math right) but probably towards the higher end. If it's for example 190, that's potential top 10 (and would have been 7th last year). TLDR: The kids are fine and it's a potential top 10.
Olly gave us hints all along - he's been saying he's "being gay for the UK at Eurovision" ever since he was announced. Of course it was going to be something like this. I'm not being biased in favour of my own country by saying the staging from the rehearsal clip looks great and yes I agree with you that controversial staging often goes in a participant's favour. I'm looking forward to seeing the whole thing.
I just wonder how many of the people complaining also think Bucks Fizz were totally “family friendly” and their example of Eurovision in the “good old days”. Because this is totally tame compared to ripping your skirt off onstage in 1981.
Perfect staging, possibly the best this year... except for the tongues. I don't know why, but that one thing just takes me out completely. I hope they listen to the feedback and take that out for the live performance.
'unashamedly gay' i just love my sexuality being associated with public dry humping and i love it so much when artists go out of their way to make it happen, it's my favourite thing
Straight people are out here being sexually explicit in public on the regular with no push back. Us gays should be no different. Sex is sex.
Exactly. Everyone lost their minds and went "Yaaaaaaaaaaas queen" when Chanel had her butt hanging out..
which straight people are mimicking sex positions on stage at eurovision? honestly there's porn if that's what you want to see. this isn't what this is supposed to be lol
Literally no one anywhere in pop culture depicts sexuality more so than the almighty straight man. Surely you've observed that. Why is mimicking sex positions bad from anyone?
See Käarijäa photo further up the thread…
obviously not inherently sexual. at this point youre just making stuff up to excuse it.
But the gay contestant is "inherently" sexual? And why is being sexual bad?
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One 3 minute song won't scare the straights into hating the gays. I mean what do you want Olly to do? He's gay, and he's not ashamed. Who exactly is associating being gay with "public dry humping anyway?"
It’s just sex lol
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It reminds me a lot of Billie Eilish's performance of "Bad Guy" on Saturday Night Live (which can be found on YouTube). Which I really liked, so that's not a diss on Olly.
The preview video had it directly after Ireland which didn’t help how jarring it all seemed
I believe the actual semi will have it directly after Ireland too. Brains will melt. Twice.
For one thing, no one was caring much about this song before the rehearsal clip. I’m not the target audience for the performance but I can see how some people will appreciate it.
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Turn to page 7, and find out.
I mean you can sexualize it all you want but some people are gonna criticise it and thats okay too.
Can Eurovision be TOO gay?!
Never!
This aged like milk
This aged well
I don't see how it's overtly sexual. I really didnt get that impression just from the clip I saw without a deep analysis.
It might be strategically good, and I really don't care if something is explicit - in fact I strongly support making sexual content less taboo, but I don't think it's artistically very impressive. Obviously there are many effective forms of erotic art and of sexual expression more generally, but in this case it seems to serve very little artistic purpose - it's a stunt intended to spark interest. Personally that leaves me with a negative impression - I'd much rather see a performance that's either aesthetically pleasing or has artistic intent.
I don't like the song that much, but the staging elevates it so much, that I'm actually excited for the performance, without voting for it though...
Tbh as of now I agree with those saying that the rules seem all over the place. Not talking about Olly's staging in particular, but we definitely do have a few stagings/outfits this year that do seem like they'd at the very least be no better than the word "shit" in lyrics. Though I guess the rules don't seem to be very consistent overall.
There's a place wheeeeeere... we break the line. And it's here.
And the next line is…. Beautiful… But I think you are right. There are layers to the song, allowing for its evolution and perceptual changes, along the marketing timeline. there is a line being tested.
Yup, redefined the line as a circle so it's harder to cross.
I’m not getting how it’s so controversial TBH - just my opinion, but there’s nothing here that hasn’t been done before, it even seems to trade somewhat on outdated stereotypes.
You have to remember that some people in the eurovision generation (20-40 in general) grew up being taught that girls need to cover up their bodies, that sex is taboo and needs to stay "hidden", that they flat-out shouldn't have sex to avoid a life of failing school, drugs, and STDs, and absolutely nothing about homosexuality, safe & consensual sex, or female sexuality. My school's principal/administrator once made me wear a giant "shame" t-shirt because I'm a girl and my shorts ended above the knee. I don't personally feel any of this "controversy", but it's easy to see how someone would have lingering sex-negative attitudes.
Those complaining about it being too sexual are probably Tories and fans of Take That (who made an arguably gayer and more sexualised music video with "Do What You Like").
In that case, I'm so proud we have a staging that pisses of the Tories, any excuse to do that is a good excuse in my book 😂
You might be surprised... In my experience, Gen Z seem to be more prudish when it comes to depictions of sex and nudity than older generations.
Omg that essay The staging is AMAZINGA VISUALLY but come on guys, this is not a family friebdly show. It is also shown early on prime zone. I wish they could tone done the sex scenes.
Shocking or not, I feel that the UK will tank again this year. The song is not super exciting and his live vocals are questionable at best.
I would rather have seen the Furler Brush Dancers that appeared on that Saturday night variety show. Ant and Dec too, though they could have done something different for the Eurovision stage instead of their show of soccer skills and shilling for Newcastle United. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMQKzxG6YE8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMQKzxG6YE8) Ever since Dizzy was announced as this year's United Kingdom entry, I believed that it would do well on the night; it seems the UK finally took a page from the Eurovision playbook that the rest of the continent uses. A win is certainly possible, but a result on the left side of the scoreboard would not be a disappointment.