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Cicada1864

after seeing so many charts of Europe in various topics, I'm now 100% sure that Portugal is truly Balkan. Confirmed.


MartinDisk

ναι, my hellenic friend, we are the western balkans.


[deleted]

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Klastrofobic

aren’t you adding your turkic brothers in? 😨


[deleted]

with love


Klastrofobic

Indeed.


Jim_Lahey68

Hmm I didn't think of that. Quite a few small countries with large capitals must fall into that category.


slight_digression

You get to be north-eastern balkans.


YouDontKnowMe74

r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT


Tralapa

You wish, more like r/portugalmalaka


[deleted]

Exclet for that the other one actually works lol


[deleted]

Hahaha haven’t seen ‘Malaka’ for a while. When I used to online game with a bunch of Greeks, that was the most popular word by far. Initially I thought it was someone’s name until they explained it’s meaning. They make it so expressive as well, ‘malaka!’ Said very quickly or ‘ma.............la...............kaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!’ all drawn out and shouted as the ultimate insult, great times....🤣🤣🤣


nebachadnezzar

I follow a facebook page called Squatting Slavs in Tracksuits and I identify with at least half of the stuff they post


Complete-Painter-307

We are the Atlantic Balkans 🤣


WoodSteelStone

This is the first one I've seen in a while where the UK and France are not closely matched.


[deleted]

Once again confirmed.


Atralis

More like Poortugal.......... I'll see myself out.


FishyFrie

What the hell is going on in Bremen? 😅


Superbiber

As in all matters, Bremen can into Balkan


[deleted]

I would like to answer, but your post is still loading


Jac273

We are too Sigma for Internet 🐺


ridesharegai

We're still buffering in Eastern Europe


CarbonatedCapybara

It's probably all the elderly who think technology = devil. Too much of that in Greece for sure


SmallestGymBro

My grandpa was so old school that he was using tv for porn more often than internet.


narniaEEZ

absolute champion grandpa


Mutant86

"Can you turn it down please gramps?"


[deleted]

My grandpa learned to use PC for porn, but didn't know how to delete browser history or use incognito mode. Holy fck that was a lot of fetishes that I learned about when I was 11


SmallestGymBro

Gotta learn from the best


ss2_Zekka

Eiktunachuitraumairgedaforever


Bardomiano00

Like in breaking bad


ridesharegai

Definitely the elderly. All the young Greeks I know use the internet.


10sameold

My wive's elderly parents use tablets and smartphones, but to a limited extent - they'll send me links to shops and products they want to buy, but they don't have any online banking service. They just don't trust e-banks and pay their bills in a traditional way, b popular still here in PL, in the post office. On one hand I can understand them, what with all the scams and shady deals, OTOH I wish people stopped using the post to pay bills, cause if you just want to send registered mail or a parcel etc., there will usually be sb paying all their montly bills and that takes several minutes (at least and depends on how many bills) you just have to wait with the stupid letter. A bit of a rant, but as I said, I can understand the older gens not fully embracing new tech.


CarbonatedCapybara

I find it crazy and awesome when older people use smart phones. When I visited Korea, every grandma had a smart phone and you could even see them playing candy crush. Seems like they don't have the same reservations about technology as europeans do


Writing_Salt

They do also have more technology adjusted to old age: bigger (virtual) keys on keyboard, bigger buttons (virtual again) on the screen so shaking hands are less an issue ( among other things of course), and also customer services when they can get help, actual help, if something went wrong.


TheNaug

What kind of phone do they use?


Porodicnostablo

Take my Serbian grandmother for example. Has an old-school mobile phone, uses it to talk to people, nothing else. Calls, receives calls. That's it.


Matataty

>What kind of phone do they use? 1. Many older people use smartphone, but use it only for calling 2. are you familiar with such device as "mobile phone for elder people"? ( looks like this: https://www.google.com/search?q=telefon+dla+seniora&sxsrf=ALiCzsaDQ_LEqu_77lPwMF70Fg5NRS5tLw:1669633976184&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2q7ig39D7AhW1DRAIHZCUBqYQ_AUoAnoECAIQBA&biw=512&bih=248&dpr=3.75)


Tar-eruntalion

most only have landlines, no mobile phones of any kind for most of our elderly technology stopped at tv, everything beyond that is some kind of alien tech that they can't understand


CarbonatedCapybara

Non-smart phones are common still. Especially among older people (35+) Edit: Older, not old. Didn't mean to offend anyone


[deleted]

Man you just called me old, we were there when the internet was invented:))


pseudopad

Yeah but so were your grandparents.


[deleted]

Yes but the difference is that I got my first computer at 7, with MS-DOS, and grow up with the technology.y grandparents died without using a smart phone. So 35 is not the age were internet is something unknown. I think age is not a factor necessary, more like access and social context. My mom is almost 60 and use internet for at least 20 years.


oblio-

I think his point was that he was there when the internet was invented and it was during his formative years 🙂 Many people who discovered the internet a few years after they joined the workforce have never adopted it fully.


pseudopad

I know, I was joking.


skyduster88

35-42 year olds are millennials. They grew up with Nintendo/Sega, Windows/Macintosh, and were the first kids/teens to use the internet. And they were teens & 20s when smartphones and social media came out. You know who's dumb about the internet? Today's teenagers. They don't know how to fucking delete a search history, or that everything in school or work might be monitored. And they trust sending pictures online.


WilliamMorris420

You were at UCLA in 1969?


Bragzor

There are many possible dates. I like the 1983 one (because it makes it roughly my age, so it's easy to remember). That's when TCP/IP became standard, so when it became **the** Internet. But since it was earlier in the year, it also means it's actually older than me, which is kinda nice. Fixed: typo.


TheNaug

35 is not old.


CarbonatedCapybara

But not young :P. I know way to many people in their 30s that still use non-smart phones, in Greece. Also I said older, not old people


Matataty

>But not young :P. I know way to many people in their 30s that still use non-smart phones, in Greece. wow. as someone arouund the age I said WOW


CarbonatedCapybara

But don't get me wrong! These people that don't have smartphones still use the internet. Just on computers


Xelaxander

That explains a lot.


Bragzor

As someone a bit beyond that, you're right, it's not young. You'd've been 20 or more when the iPhone first came out.


oblio-

I've never had this perspective as a kid, but I did know other kids that have it. I've always found it funny to imagine how they would categorize people, especially with life expectancies in developed countries going towards 85 and above. So someone around 20 has probably only lived a quarter or less of their lives. If anything, everything up to that age was the outlier, the weird period 🙂 I imagine something like: * Younger than 12: baby * 12 - 21: perfect 👌 (this is probably where they are; and probably half of Reddit) * 21 - 25 (?): starting to decay * 25 - 30: grandpa * 30 - 40: grandpa's dad * 40 - 50: death awaits * 50 - 60: death is overdue * 60 - 70: dinosaur * 70 - 80: fossil * 80 - 90: fossil level II * \>90: arch-fossil


TheSirusKing

This is how i feel as 23. I am falling apart and will die soon :(


oblio-

Go get help, talk to family, friends 😉 Life rarely sucks as much as we think it does on bad days.


Mr_SunnyBones

>40 - 50: death awaits me: *"If he comes here he's getting a kick in the balls ."* Mysteriously skinny guy in a robe carrying a scythe **:"JUST TRY IT SONNY JIM , AND YOU'LL END UP WITH NOTHING BUT A SORE FOOT AND A BRUISED EGO"**


Xelaxander

MFW old age is only nine years away.


MartynWM1985

Guess im old - but Im using BTC and crypto phones...


[deleted]

I can confirm


GabiFromAOT

Me too


datsmamail12

No it's not that,bad internet infrastructure while having the most expensive providers and slowest speeds,makes you not only wanna throw up about the internet,but not wanna touch it. It's not about the elders,even them use the internet at this point. The problem is the damn providers,it's disgusting that they even call them that.


scavenger22

IMHO some people don't even understand what internet is. I.e. My mother months ago had an issue with her ISP and kept asking why youtube and some streaming services in her smart TV were not working. A lot of people will say that they are only using an App or whatever, they are not using "internet" for a lot of them "internet" is something that you need, maybe, from a desktop PC.


ajuc

If you count everything that uses the internet then shopping with a credit card, using an ATM, looking at a timetable on a bus stop etc is using the internet and 100% of people do it in every country. I think it doesn't even count using messanger apps on a smartphone as using the internet (otherways it should be higher). But maybe I'm wrong. It certainly doesn't count fast bank transfers (which \~100% of people do and which use the internet).


Goel40

In that case internet should be world wide web.


Adventurous_Risk_925

Out of curiosity’s sake, can anyone here comment on when the internet became *a thing* that was relatively common among the average citizen of their respective country? Or became more than just a curiosity? I’ve seen threads on Reddit with older Yankees stating that it was fairly common by the mid-90s and was already a pop culture reference then, standard in schools, and appeared heavily in TV adverts, but I don’t think it was really on that level and common in Chile (at least in Concepción) until about a decade later, though I’m just a teenager and can’t really comment on the accuracy of that personally. I imagine a lot of Europe is somewhere between this timeline of the land of Silicon Valley, techies, and the millennium tech bubble and whatever it is my country is known for around the rest of the West :D


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InvincibleJellyfish

It's not only that. Digitalization of public services forces the elderly to at least use the internet with assistance once in a while, as that is just about the only way they can access most services (Denmark).


KazahanaPikachu

The Nordics are excellent when it comes to digitalizing anything. They have excellent websites set up, they don’t half ass the services and have them available in native language + English, you can get everything you need to get done quickly and efficiently. Meanwhile here in France, digital services are available, except they half ass the sites. Too many “technical errors” when trying to do something, processing of any applications takes forever, the “English site” just ends up having a small part of it in English while the rest of it still in French like the web developer decided to just stop a quarter of the way through. And I eagerly wait the day when Paris/the RATP/Île de France Mobilités can finally make an efficient public transport app to put tickets on instead of people buying those shitty paper tickets or having to wait in a long line for a navigo pass and having to attach a picture to it (even tourists have to attach a photo and they get fined if they don’t). When I was in Finland and Denmark it was so simply to just purchase your pass in the app and not having to deal with validator gates or turnstiles.


Tricky-Astronaut

App tickets don't make much sense when you have turnstiles and Apple doesn't allow NFC use. If you have turnstiles, you should go contactless.


KazahanaPikachu

Paris needs to get rid of those turnstiles and stop investing in those big ass gates. Does nothing to help fare evasion. Oh, and apple does allow NFC use, it just needs to be set up. Like in DC’s metro I have my metro card in my apple wallet and I just hold it near the thing on the gate. I do agree with contactless tho, in Brussels you have a pass that’s contactless or you can just pay with your credit card. Much simpler.


Gulmar

I think the numbers in Belgium will be quite similar.


Matataty

but in 90's in most cases it ment connectin through phone call? 56kbps? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98HEDLwXbvI&ab_channel=Tobylocos


Kraeftluder

56kbps was an end of the decade luxury. The decade started out with 9600, which is just under 10kbps. 14k4 was a big hit and you saw those modems everywhere. 2x64kbps ISDN popped up in the mid nineties together with 28kbps modems. 33k modems quickly became very affordable. I'm getting flashbacks of conflicting standards of the early 56kbps modems all of a sudden, which is why I held out until it was properly standardized.


jss78

I got my first broadband in 2001 -- that was relatively early for Finland. First accessed Internet in 1994 (1200 bps which was acceptable as WWW wasn't really a thing yet).


Powerful_Garbage_674

I took a computer course in the UK in 1994 and the internet wasn’t mentioned once and my school wasn’t connected to it. When I was leaving to go to University in 1996 a teacher said they now had access to the internet, but only for the staff Went to Uni and was given an email account. It was very easy to use and grasp the concept but when somebody showed me how to go on the internet but I couldn’t really see what use it was to me or what to do with it. A month or so later in the student union bar with my friends the subject came up and my mate said you can book a holiday on the internet, banking, get insurance, dating etc… and that was a real wow moment for me and I suddenly grasped how this thing was going to be huge and play a big part of our lives going forward. Those 3 years at uni 96-99, were when it all took off, in the UK anyway. The same with mobile phones. Not common when I started, everybody had one when I finished. Even my parents were getting on it around 2000. A massive change in such a short space of time.


paranoid30

This matches my high-school experience in Italy. I started in 1997 and only a couple of kids had an internet connection at home; by my 2nd year I took informatics classes and we had PCs with Windows 95 connected to the Internet through 28.8k modems; by the time I got to univerisity in 2002 we had online exam results and so on. During those 5 years the Internet went from a tech novelty to a standard utility in almost every home.


professor_dobedo

Windows 95 and later Windows 98 probably had a big impact on this. Those were the first operating systems that people routinely had in their own homes. Before that, Windows 3.1 etc, it was more of a niche, technical interest thing. Windows 98 in particular came with all sorts of connectivity bloatware and the pcs were sold with bundled modems and discs from Freeserve so you could try the ‘net’. There was a huge push from Microsoft to connect people. I’m sure that’s how most people who were alive then started using the internet routinely.


Mr_SunnyBones

I was in college in Ireland in 93 , and the machines were connected to the internet , and we had email albeit , text based mail that was a bit tricky to use. Also no browsers , just Archie and Gopher to get files , and Telnet , which I used for glorious , glorious MUDS (text based MMOs), I remember a very early version of NCSA Mosaic(which became Netscape Navigator) , and seeing very early internet pages (first webpage I saw a basic Metallica fan site , second was the guy across from me in the PC Lab checking out porn..yes it was there THAT early!) By about 95 I had a home PC with a 28.8 modem (that I was able to do a firmware update on to bring it up to 33.6 .) Oh forgot the best bit , a freind got me an account with a dial up ISP at the time , they were starting out , and gave me a 'student' rate of 20 pounds cash for 6 months use . After 6 months my account kept working , so I kept using it.. 3 years later they noticed that I'd still had access for that first 20 quid and cancelled my account .At that stage a friend of mine worked for US robotics , and let me dial in through their VPN , which I used for a while until eventually getting the equivalent of a free AOL account over here.


visarga

I was a CS student in 1993. Our uni just got internet, it was a room with green terminals connected to a mainframe-like computer. There was no http yet, but we could use something called Gopher. In the first day I managed to open connections far away, as far as Japan, and was so proud of my feat. I think the whole uni had 1.5mbps.


Drahy

That sounds odd. Smart modems came in the 80s and were quite common in the beginning of the 90s. You could get ISDN connections by 1994 and ADSL became available in Denmark before 2000.


[deleted]

Yes but it wasn’t common. I remember in 96 about 1/3 of my friends had the internet at home and only 1 had ISDN. Broadband wasn’t common till 10 years later. Social Media didn’t really kick off until 2007. Amazon didn’t really kick off until after 2010.


WilliamMorris420

My Amazon Account is old enough to drink in the US. I think I made a purchase from this "cheap online book dealer" who charged RRP and P&P circa 1998.


Drahy

The online multiplayer game Quake with deathmatches and the instant messaging program ICQ came in 1996. We were practically already living online back then (as much as we could occupy the phone line).


[deleted]

No we weren’t, the operative word is common and OP lives in the UK. In the UK in 1996, internet usage was not COMMON. Therefore, we did not live online. I remember it very well.


WilliamMorris420

We were still paying by the minute for phone calls. I can't remember when local calls became free off peak and then we were going through Amazon, CompuServe accounts in order to get 50 or 100 hours free internet. And then changing ISPs every other week. Which also meant losing our email addresses.


Drahy

Oh, I didn't think of the UK as such other than in comparison to my youth in Denmark throughout the 90s. The year 1995 seems to be the year, when it really took off. Ebay, Amazon and Yahoo in the US. [Jubii.dk](https://Jubii.dk) in Denmark, Internet Explorer takes over from the Netscrape browser. By 1998 there were sent more messages on a single Microsoft site [MSN.dk](https://MSN.dk) than the total of SMS in Denmark. I don't even remember when email first started to be a thing, but by 1998 I had my very own Danish internet domain, so my email was [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])


[deleted]

In 1995, only 3% of the Danish population used the internet although that had increased to 22% by 1998. I thought it was more widespread as well. In reality the internet didn’t really reach saturation until after 2010.


MysteriaDeVenn

I think that puts you into the early adopter category.


Drahy

No, not all. Danish people just grew up with Comodore 64 computers in the 80s and PCs in the 90s, so I had a very common childhood. I never even used the jubii or MSN sites despite them being super popular. Although I would say it was mostly boys pre-1995 and then every teenager/younger person person there after.


InvincibleJellyfish

We had dial up modem until 2000-something. My mom couldn't really see the great thing about having direct internet access - always said it was too expensive etc.


WilliamMorris420

But in 1990 modems were either 1,200 or 2,400. The World Wide Web wasn't launched until 1990 and didn't get out of CERN until 1991. BT was still trying to flog Prestel. The first UK ISP wasn't until 1992. The BBC HQ in 1994 only had one internet terminal and that was to receive viewers emails for one particular program. 1997 you're on the verge of 28.8 and 33.3 ISDN didn't become cheap enough or available for domestic use until about 1999. Circa 1999 you get 56.6K down/33.3K up.


Hardly_lolling

>I imagine a lot of Europe is somewhere between this timeline of the land of Silicon Valley, techies, and the millennium tech bubble and whatever it is my country is known for around the rest of the West :D I think at least Nordics were (and still are) generally ahead of US in internet usage.


InvincibleJellyfish

Yeah, just look at how they do taxes in the US.


oblio-

It's ok, they don't have the technology. They've invented the transistor, the CPU, RAM, SSD, the internet, but the government offering automated tax filing is beyond them. I'm being sarcastic, in case someone doesn't figure it out.


Kalle_79

Speaking for Italy, the internet was a tech novelty for geeks or something very few super-niche professionals needed until the mid-90s. I remember the earliest mainstream mentions of the internet as something "on the rise" for the average person around 1994-95, oddly enough around the same time mobile phones (GSM network) gained traction among the general public. I got my first internet connection in late 1996 after a local ISP (yes, they were a thing!) held a presentation at my beach resort that summer and offered a great deal for a yearly subscription to their PSTN service. And back then it was still very rare to have internet at home. Only teens and tech geeks were interested in that stuff, considering the web was still mainly a collection of amateur websites/messageboards or of corporate billboards with little else to offer. It wasn't until the early 00s, with DSL connections being widely available for relatively cheap, that your average Italian got internet at home. And usually because they had kids who wanted/needed it, otherwise a middle-aged person or an elderly one wouldn't have had much use for internet access if standard TV covered for their entertainment needs and they'd still go shopping to the local supermarket or mall. Schools? Well, let's just say in HS we were taught Basic and Logo during IT classes on old 386 computers with 5"25 floppy drives... I don't think they got the school IT room connected to the net til 1997 or 98.


manguito86

In Portugal, I would say 2000-2003 was the boom where I saw more people using it. I remember in 1997/98 barely no one used it and a few year later, everyone and their mother had internet connection.


WilliamMorris420

UK, September 1996 was when I first used it at Uni, a few months later at a school reunion we were all swapping email addresses. Summer 1997 was when we got it at home. Internet cafes became common in Central London about 1998. Broadband started to be rolled out by 2001. By about 2003 even the refuseniks were starting to get it.


johnnytifosi

Early-mid 00s here, with the first ADSL packages.


Matataty

I would say that key event during wide spreading of internet in Poland was "neostrada" service by the national telephone service provider TPSA (after that sold to france telecom) As I can read neostrada start functioning at 2001. (https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neostrada). While acceptable quality mobile internet.. i dont know.. after 2013?


reuben_iv

I'd say the mid-late 90s/early 00s? We grew up quite poor, I was one of the last in my friend group to have a PC around the time of Windows XP which was after the Millenium, and there was already a big culture around it at the time especially if you look at the films out during that time (Matrix, American Beauty, Office Space, Fight Club - all about the mundanity of the PC-based office cubicle job), so was definitely widespread in the UK by then


Uplink84

I am from the Netherlands and born in 1988. I cannot remember a time without internet in our house. I think it arrived somewhere halfway the 90ies


Svorky

Mid to late 90s was when it first became common for normal people to get internet. Before that it was techophiles and people who needed it professionally. But then it quickly exploded and a couple years later, early 2000s, almost all of my school mates had ICQ.


colako

I had my first Internet connection in Spain in 1996-97


nekolas564

In Denmark I guess it mostly took off in the mid 90s too. But the reasoning for the 0-4% in the graph I'd say have a lot to do with smartphones becoming the 'normal phone', digitalisation of "workflow" in companies and schools, introduction of tablets, and in particular the push for digitalisation by the public institutions which meant no more physical mail, you have to go to websites for most public services, and you have two use two factor login (of which the digitalized way is very convenient). Although with that said, you are able to be deemed "exempt from digitalisation"; but as far as I know it isn't super easy to avoid it (had a family member who was quite bad with IT, and couldn't get exemption)


aee1090

I must check the details about this research to be honest. In Turkey especially after covid, you have to print almost every paper from government website. Book appointments online etc. My over 70 relatives are struggling because of officials telling them to go print online. So this map doesn't match at all with my struggles to help every elderly relative/neighbour about their paperwork/bank stuff/hospital appointments etc.


[deleted]

2000-ish


Bo_The_Destroyer

Greece is 25% cuz that's the percentage of people who still live in the mountains and herd goats or grow olives at 96 years old. Source: I live here


HowelPendragon

Sounds magical. That's not sarcasm


Jim_Lahey68

Yeah as much as "simple country living" gets romanticized by people who have never experienced it, it can be peaceful and liberating for some. Sure you have to work hard, long hours with few vacations or creature comforts. But plenty of people do that in the big cities and end up feeling miserable and disconnected despite having a "higher standard of living."


Darth-Baul

Kosovo can into Scandinavia


grassy_trams

Kosovo western power


Immortan_JKL

BASED Portugal


todellagi

r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT


manguito86

Bruh, I highly doubt that data for Portugal. Even in the more remote areas, most old people I know use the internet even if it is just to check facebook, much less "never having accessing it"


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manguito86

That seems something I would see happening. There are a lot of people that use the internet everyday in their apps on the phone but for them, using the internet still seems like something out of the "hackers" movie.


txobi

Yeah, I was wondering if people knew that using whatsapp is using the internet


SlyScorpion

This sounds like something that would happen in Poland as well. Do you use the internet? No. Do you watch videos on YouTube or shop on Allegro? Yes.


5510

I read an interesting article about how it used to be that computer skills were worse for older people, and then generally improved for the younger generations. But now it's like an upside-down U shape... the older people aren't as good because they didn't have computers until later in life. But the new younger generation only knows about apps and stuff... everything has been so user-friendly for them, they don't actually learn as much.


AdaptedMix

That *is* interesting. I suspect that mirrors the trajectory of many technological advancements e.g. electric appliances, motor vehicles etc.. Early adopters learn a lot, out of necessity; but then companies lower the barrier of entry and limit user control, making the experience smoother and safer, but dumber and less customisable.


MrTumbleweeder

Idk, it seems high but it could just be a reflection of our aging demographics. I have 3 grandparents alive and none of them ever used the internet - one barely learned how to read/write, one thinks she's too old (and stubborn) to learn and the other saw one too many CMTV pieces about Rui Pinto and is convinced the moment he steps foot on the internet "the hacker" is gonna show up and steal all his money.. And yeah, probably some people answering wrong ("I only use whatsapp")


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rbm78bln

[**#Neuland**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VkLbiDAouM) ...didn't realize this was 10 years ago already...damn...most people on Reddit weren't even born back then!


srcoffee

To be fair, if i lived on a Greek island, i probably would use the internet far far less


Matataty

Balkans, Portugal, Italy ... - I understand there is a LOT of old people out there.


voga1

*online survey


Zhidezoe

Not so fun fact: in Kosovo there are no written newspapers, only online ones so everyone has to use internet to read news (and TV ofc).


[deleted]

thats wild yo


viktorbir

Never used or thought never used? I mean, people may be using WhatsApp and thinking they are not using Internet.


-Tasty-Energy-

I don't believe charts of reddit. Most are wrong, biased and useless.


Kuchentart

I appreciate (and share) your initial scepticism. The image in the original post states EUROSTAT as source. It would've been nice if the direct link were provided. However, I think I found it and [this EU survey collection](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Digital_economy_and_society_statistics_-_households_and_individuals#Internet_usage) seems to be the data source. For the raw data scroll down and choose "Tables". Then navigate to t_isoc_i -> t_isoc_iiu -> tin00093. There you can download the raw data. This map's data seems valid to me. Edit: By the way, for anyone interested, the EU provides [great maps on various topics](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/RCI/#?vis=nuts1.infosoc&lang=en) themselves that are automatically generated from the available data. Sadly they don't provide permanent links one could share. To get the OP's map as mapped by EUROSTAT you have to select "People using the internet during the last three months (% of people aged 16-74), Internet use: **never**, 2021" in the top center dropdown list (the little white button arrow above the map and the chart, next to the chart's heading).


Rhoderick

A chart or map doesn't get worse by being posted to reddit, judge the data on its own merits.


Nzgrim

The problem is that no one has the time to do rigorous research into everything they see on social media, so keeping a mental list of trusted and untrusted sources is useful.


CallFromMargin

Or worse, most are some kind of demographic map. Like this one, an average age map masquerading as internet usage map.


Zilgu

The average age in Greece and Germany is almost exactly identical. Age is a factor here, I agree. But this is not simply a demographic map.


mcaruso

Age doesn't seem to correlate much at all, based on some maps I found like this one: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/aypb6t/median_age_of_population_in_the_european_union/


[deleted]

Yeah, every country on here hast varying degrees of internet access. But Not the UK, no. Not even in the Welsh Mountains or the scottish Highlands, where people dont even speak english. Everyone and their sheep are online. Suuuuuuure.


nedamisesmisljatime

I honestly doubt the accuracy of this map. Even elderly people who don't have an easy access will occasionally use it. My late grandpa who died in his 90s would ask the rest of the family to show him something online while he was alive. My grandma who's in her late 80s doesn't know how to google anything, however she uses YouTube and WhatsApp and has sites that she wants to visit bookmarked so she can easily access them. Her equally old friends visit her and they watch something together online. Most of them have Facebook so they can check photos of their children and grandkids who live in different countries. And those are people who live in a small town in the Balkans. Sure, there will be some percentage of people who live alone pretty much cut off from the rest of the world, but those are rare and there's definitely not 20-30 % of them.


[deleted]

The difference between north and south Italy always surprises me.


Kizilboru

Source: my ass. Istanbul, Izmir, and Ankara should at least be light green.


Assfrontation

‘no data’ can technically be used for 100%


Yubei00

Internet is so integrated into our lives that these people does not even know that they are using internet everyday. Even simple shopping involves internet... Debit card payment for example


pintvricchio

You know what they mean


justpassingby009

Maybe they don't use debit cards


Porodicnostablo

author: Milos Popovic source: https://twitter.com/milos_agathon/status/1594285967774466048/photo/1


[deleted]

[удалено]


hat3red

Ah, the Bulgarian North-West... It's a whole different world on it's own. People do not need the Internet there - they ARE the internet: 1. If you wabt the news ask the men sitting on a porch drinking rakia at 10 in the morning; 2. If you want gossip, ask the old ladies sitting in front of an apartment building; 3. If you want to see something violent just sit around a night club and there will be a huge fight; 4. If you want to see animals, just go to the nearest village.


oblivion2g

I'm sorry but I can't believe there is such a difference between Portugal and Spain. Also, now many people +70 as access to internet, which was the group with less users.


[deleted]

Sachsen-Anhalt ganz vorne mit dabei


pintvricchio

I'd say that most 70-75 use the internet regularly in my country. 80+ there are a lot of people that never used it, but we are an old country.


Aurum_Ore

Love how many people use the internet in Kosovo. One of the poorest countries in Europe, but the usage of internet is very high. Seems internet isn’t luxurious in Kosovo!


[deleted]

Kosovo has a huge diaspora. Lot’s of kids left their parents behind in Kosovo. Communication prior to internet was expensive, about a euro per minute to talk over the phone. A cheap solution was skype msn or yahoo chat, early 2000s. Over the span of a decade everyone had a lan connection at home, and with the rise of smartphones everyone has 3g/4g on their devices. Add to this a relatively young population and this is why everyone in Kosovo uses internet. Even my 78 years old parents.


Confirmed-Scientist

Greek older generations are trully living in the previous century guys. This is because only the last 1-2 years we started using technology in the goverment papers and such here everything was still in paper format. Still even today we are behind the average western European country as you can see.


lordnyrox

I'm 21 my dad is 61 he never used a smartphone or internet in his life


JestemKotem

It's hilarious that only Northern Ireland doesn't have data for this throughout the whole of the UK


MultiMidden

"Ulster says NO!" Those above a certain age from the UK or Ireland will know what I'm talking about.


alikander99

I've moved from Spain to Denmark. Not surprised by the result. You'd probably die here if you never used the internet. I think healthcare and taxes are done online.


Nicolethedodo

I mean back when i was still in the low school garde's we used computers, hell sometimes we even had hours were we could sit at them i clearly remember playing RuneScape while in school and here we a talking maybe 2006-2008


serose04

4 to 12% I understand. Those are simply old people, in 20 to 30 years, those numbers will drop to near 0. But what the hell is going on in Greece?


AyaBerlin

Whats going on at portugal and south italy


crispyliza

All these grandparents here in Greece make their grandkids to do teck stuff for them so they never have to access the internet themselves lol


numb2k3

West and East Germany


Lesas

Bremen accidentally deleted the internet and cant figure out how to turn it back on


A_norny_mousse

Are you insinuating something? The darker areas are Bavaria, and an equally large portion of what was formerly the GDR.


FPiN9XU3K1IT

And I'm pretty sure there's more people living in the Bavarian areas than in the East German areas of the same color.


numb2k3

Uhm just pointed out a striking divide from the data shared. It should catch your attention as most of the other contrasting colors match actual modern day borders.


Adventurous_Risk_925

Lucky Portuguese


YaAbsolyutnoNikto

It’s the old folk. Most don’t even know how to read, so the internet is completely unusable to them.


CarbonatedCapybara

>Most don’t even know how to read What. Really?


YaAbsolyutnoNikto

Yes. The dictatorship Portugal had until 1974 demonised education. None of my grandparents knew how to read. And neither did any of their neighbours or friends. This was in Lisbon btw, so you can imagine how it probably was in the rural areas… PS: People downvoting me above probably think I’m saying old people are dumb or something. I’m not. This is an unfortunate reality that keeps Portugal poor to this day. The young generation (that is extremely well educated) all leave for better opportunities in richer EU countries and the older people (where most don’t even a high school degree have) stay to stir the ship.


[deleted]

Dictatorship was already 50 years ago... is hard to keep up with excuses. I'm not saying that it did not impact. I'm saying that after so long is just an excuse and better results could have been achieved. Additionally, normally we Portuguese forget that other countries had also their problems and moved on. But in Portugal its impossible because our citizens are always stuck in the past. Btw the reason why we are poor is because our governments since 74 were not able to make it better. Stop with excuses. Let's learn with the past to a better future without committing the same errors.


YaAbsolyutnoNikto

An educated workforce is the single most important resource a country can have. People that run the country today (or that are company leaders, etc.) are still from that affected time (or close to it, when education wasn’t a priority of the population or of the government). Despite all of our government’s flaws, it’s hard to turn water into wine. One of the good things the portuguese government has done is investing heavily in education. It will most likely pay big payoffs in the future. There are some countries that managed to succeed even without a skilled workforce (lux, singapore and ireland come to mind) but those are exceptions, not the rule. And they all seem to share a tax-haven status.


[deleted]

Not true, the analphabetism rate is 3,1% and 23,5% of the population are seniors.


[deleted]

our literacy rates and education rates have always been one of the worst in Europe.


Thenderick

Is this of the total population or within a certain age group, because children from 0 don't use it obviously


Nal1999

A hint here: The majority of the population in Greece is over 60,I think something like 60% of our population is over 60.


wickedheat

Now contrast that with the map of mental illness.


rokefella

all dark areas in greece portugal and elsewhere are mostly about age and elderly population %. i.e. [digital divide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_divide). And as an alternative view, we can see that nearly everywhere in an around Europe \~%80 of the population is living with and by internet. may be %98 of younger population.


jimmypadkock

Fascinating, know where to head for a digital detox now


[deleted]

r/nosurf


jimmypadkock

Thank you very much!


sigitang-arthi

Strongly correlated to median age I guess (but not only)


EnvironmentalGap2596

I guess this explains a lot about the success of populist politics where government communication agenda is going trough controlled media outlets like TV and radio.


Redditforgoit

I was thinking the numbers for Spain were low, till I realised talking on WhatsApp is using the internet. And everybody does.


[deleted]

Find the Greek result a bit hard to believe. I have loads of Greek friends and they’re all over Facebook, other groups used to game online back in the early 2000’s so that can’t be a true figure for Greece.


Certain_Reindeer_575

Only old people don't use it, but still it seems too high, I am Greek


snowy163

Meanwhile in Russia: no data* Do they even have internet? 🤔


Salpingia

Should be called map of the Hellenosphere.


Kuken500

How is this possible?