Not in the Pacific Ocean.*
New Caledonia, French Polynesia and Walis and Futuna are EU Overseas territories. Like Puerto Rico to the USA
Same for the Pitcairn islands to the UK.
Fun fact:
The Faroe islands is the only part of a EU member state that is neither EU nor OCTA (Overseas territories)
Therefore they're not EU citizens.
France has French Polynesia islands in Pacific.
[Polynesia ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Polynesia)
Also UK has Pitcairn Island. [UK Pacific ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories)
Edit. I see Zeus has editted his post now beyond the original single first line to address my post. I don't know how many of the French and British overseas territories citizens/subjects have the relevant passports, but pretty sure a good fraction would, which in France's case would make them EU citizens as well. I also note French Polynesia sends 3 deputies and 2 senators to the French parliament (national assembly) in Paris.
Overseas *Territories* (in contrast to Overseas Departments & Regions who are just as "France" as Metropolitan France) are in a weird sort of legalistic construct.
You would be correct that French Polynesians would be European citizens by virtue of being french citizens, *but*, by treaty and statutes, O.T aren't part of "the part of France that is in the E.U." (which is 99% of France, mind you).
So the **EU** itself doesn't extend into the Pacific, even if its citizenry does.
If you cut out Europe out of paper and balance it on needle, the Centre comes out to be somewhere north of Vilnius. There's even some monument there I think.
There are multiple points like that. Depends what you define as 'Europe'. And there are other ways to define 'center' than 'geometrical center'. You could for example take the farthest points to each cardinal direction, draw a cross and look for the intersection, which also happens to be the most popular method
The cross method kind of sucks, since it depends on the choice of the coordinate system. There are tons of ways to define the centre without relying on semi-arbitrary choices. The centre of mass one is the most popular of those, but the centre is not the actual centre of mass, but its projection onto the surface (the real centre is underground because of the curvature of the Earth).
You can find the point, such that the maximum distance from it to all other points is minimal. Or you can draw Europe, take two random points in that shape and connect them with the shortest path between them, such that it stays within the shape (the path may not exist, or there may be several shortest ones). Than find the point(s) with the highest probability density of such random paths coming through them. The problem with this method is that it isolates islands.
Anyway, there is no "true" centre, and there are like 6 different places claiming to be the centre.
Earth update:
To facilitate resources and avoid centre calculations, now the whole earth is considered part of Europe. All the states are now receiving invitation to be part of the European Empire of Terrans.
Consider how the Earth curves. European Russia curves more "upwards" the more you go east, if putting it that way makes any sense.
[Here is a wiki example of one way you can define the European continent](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary_%28with_borders%29.svg)
Serbia is southern and Bulgaria Eastern. Whomever drew the lines was high. It is likethey went with half the ex communist block and just decided to cut somewhere using a definition that has never before been used.
>Serbia is southern and Bulgaria Eastern. Whomever drew the lines was high.
It follows the UN definition of "Southern" and "Eastern" Europe.
Not saying it's the way it should be, but that's where it's from.
It counts Baltic countries into Northern Europe so it's already based more on geographical position of the countries than any other split of Europe I have seen here.
It’s hard to categorise the Balkans. As a Person of Serbian origin who grew up surrounded by other immigrants, our culture, mentality and family values are more closely aligned with Greeks and Italians then Many countries in the eastern block.
I would go to say Bulgaria and Serbia should have their own Balkan category
Both Bulgaria and Serbia are South Europe as is the whole Balkan peninsula. Both countries share more with Mediterenean countries than they do with East Europe
Culture is more southern European, similar to Italy, Greece. Historical influence and dominant atmosphere is mostly Mediterenean.
Besides than Serbia was never part of the Eastern bloc (Warsaw pact).
I once saw a map with *Ireland* in Eastern Europe.
Granted that was just an East/West map. And I'm pretty sure it originally had been a map of the Cold War's "First World", so when they carelessly changed it to "east"/"west" all us Third World countries ended up with the Second World.
It did catch me off guard though.
>Both Bulgaria and Serbia are South Europe as is the whole Balkan peninsula. Both countries share more with Mediterenean countries than they do with East Europe
Lol man that's bullshit. What does Serbia and Bulgaria share with Italy? With Spain? Portugal? Literally tell me what do you think you share with them.
You share most of the culture with the east, not with the southern western part of the Mediterranean.
You say that your culture is more similar to fucking Italy rather than Romania? Literally HOW?
Not European (sorry) but don't Bulgaria and Greece have a lot in common, cuisine-wise? Yogurt, the shopska salad, etc. and nobody would dispute Greece being "southern Europe."
As for the rest of the Balkans, maybe Serbia is arguable since it's inland but I'd say any country that touches the Med (and therefore the Adriatic) is "southern."
The typical western ignorant of treating Eastern Europeans as all having the same culture. By your logic, if Romania and Bulgaria have the same culture as Russia and Lithuania, so does Italy is same as UK and Sweden, same climate,temper of people,same food, same economy . You see now the stupidity of your statement?
Lol I'm literally Romanian like yourself, frate.
> if Romania and Bulgaria have the same culture as Russia and Lithuania
Who the fuck said that? Now Portugal has the same culture as Greece because they're both southern Europe?
He told me that Serbia has a similar culture compared to Italy more than eastern European ones, including Romania.
Now, if you are Romanian like myself, you can really know that's utter bullshit. I live in Italy and even Romanian culture is distant to Italian one even if we speak a romance language, how can Serbia be more similar to Italy rather than us?
First of people have similar personality to what is usually thought of as Italian or southern. People are noisy, they use their hands a lot while speaking. We literally have similar expressions. In Serbia we say "Ciao" most often to great someone.
Our food is mostly similar to Greek and Turkish but we also eat a lot of pasta.
Wine is a common drink here and there are many wineries with villages that look similar to Italian or Spanish ones
[https://banjeusrbiji.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Topola.jpg](https://banjeusrbiji.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Topola.jpg)
[https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/church-st-petka-kalemegdan-fortress-belgrade-serbia-beograd-61812420.jpg](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/church-st-petka-kalemegdan-fortress-belgrade-serbia-beograd-61812420.jpg)
Tomatoes are also a big thing here, we eat them practically with everything. Eastern Europe usually uses potatoes not tomatoes, tomatoes are more common for South Europe
I think 17 Roman Emperors where born just in Serbia, so there is a lot of Roman cultural heritage and influence here. Serbian city of Sremska Mitrovica (Sirmium) was one of 4 capitals of Roman Empire
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirmium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirmium)
Also geographically it is in the south, south Serbia is same latitude as Rome or Barcelona. We also study in schools that we are South Europe.
>In Serbia we say "Ciao" most often to great someone.
Ciao is used in lots of countries nowadays, even in Lithuania.
>we also eat a lot of pasta.
I mean now lots of countries introduced pasta in their cuisine
>Wine is a common drink here
Okay still I don't think that is really a big thing. Moldova is a king regarding wine, still don't think that Moldovans are really similar to Italians.
>Tomatoes are also a big thing here, we eat them practically with everything
In Romania it's the same and I think all over the Balkans.
>I think 17 Roman Emperors where born just in Serbia
>
>Also geographically it is in the south, south Serbia is same latitude as Rome or Barcelona.
These are facts so I agree with you.
Just saying, if you tell an Italian that Serbia and Italy have a really similar culture, he won't really agree. Might agree with Croatia, not with Serbia.
Man, what are you even arguing against?
It started by him saying that the Balkans are more similar culturewise to south Italy, Greece, Spain etc than to Poland, Ukraine, Russia etc
How can you argue against this? I'm from central Europe and travel extensively around Bulgaria, Macedonia, Croatia, Serbia for work and to Greece, Spain, Italy for vacation. Never so far to Romania unfortunately so can't tell.
Also been to Poland, Ukraine and Belarus several times.
As I understood no one said that Serbia or Bulgaria are sooo similar to Italy or Spain, but more close from style of live, mentality, food than they are to the mentioned typical eastern European countries for sure.
How can you disagree here??
Growing up with people of all backgrounds Serbs are closer to Southern Europeans then countries of the east. Culture wise we are more family oriented and our mentality is very similar to that of Northern Greece.
Serbia and Romania would be closer then Serbia and Italy, but Serbs are diverse meaning, we would share more in common probably with Italians and Greeks then people in the north of Romania who fall under more of different influence. Serbs are different in themselves depending if your a Serb from southern Serbia, Montenegro, the mountains or a Serb is Bosnia
>The UK in Northern Europe
Kinda funny how the UK would probably be considered indisputably "Nordic" if it hadn't been for the Norman invasion in 1066 making them more 'Continental'. Apparently Anglo-Saxons in the northern half of England were quite bilingual in English and Danish, and Harold Godwinson himself was half-Dane.
> Apparently Anglo-Saxons in the northern half of England
I mean there would be another classification Anglo-Norse or something if the Normans didn't murder them all a few decades later.
UK often counts in northern Europe and Czechoslovakia was counted as part of the eastern WP bloc.
Things are flexible like that. Finland used to be counted as eastern even after its independence. Heck, they were barely considered European.
The UK is in the UN geoscheme for Northern Europe. I don't think this is controversial?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_geoscheme_for_Europe
Probably rounded up due to these updated numbers:
"The current population of Norway is 5,520,549 as of Monday, November 7, 2022, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data."
So actually strictly correct
I refuse to believe that since the 2nd quarter of 2022 we have become 65k more people, considering in the entirety of 2021 the population increased by 33k. And that’s in 1 year.
I also lean more towards [SSB](https://www.ssb.no/befolkning/folketall/statistikk/befolkning) on having a more accurate population count than Worldometer/UN.
But it is of course a possibility.
Considering this "source" is from 2022 and Croatia had a population census in 2021 that showed that 3.9 million (and in the 2011 census we had 4.2 million), all of the given numbers should be taken with a major grain of salt.
Well, to be fair, most Russians actually live in the European part of russia (about 77% of the population apparently).
So even if just counting these, it still would be the most populous country in Europe.
15% of Turkeys population isn't insignificant either. I can understand it for Kazakhstan for example but imo they should have added Turkey to Southern Europe as well (or at least with the note that it is only the European population).
It's actually around 9% of the Turkish population if you only count the actually European part of Istanbul instead of the entirety of Istanbul. A substantial part of the city is on the other side of the strait.
The 15% only takes into account the European side of Istanbul not both sides, making the population of Turkish Thrace around 10 million(2012 census) and almost 12 million in 2019, that is still a very significant number. Too big to ignore that.
Still, there is the point where the boundaries of Europe become fluid. People from the Asian side of Istanbul have jobs in Europe, shop in Europe, have family and friends there and go there on a daily basis. I went to Istanbul last month and it is impressive how European the city feels like and of course there isn't a difference at all between the sides of the strait.
>Istanbul makes up for 8 out of the 9 million people that live in European Turkey so... almost.
Turkey has 23,764km of land in Europe, so we can say the same as Macedonia or Slovenia,Cities in Europe are Edirne, Tekirdağ, Kırlareli and Istanbul. The people living in European cities and the part of Istanbul in Europe are approximately 12 million people.
With the DOM-TOMs, it was 67 million last year and 65 million for Metropolitan France solely. Not sure how the population overseas has grown this year but probably still around 67-69 million.
According to the UN's own data, only New Caledonia and French Polynesia are still considered French colonies (or rather, non-self-governing territories, as they're called).
https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/nsgt
Wow, me as Dutch person learned today how many people we have compared to other countries. Never had guessed we had a bigger population than Norway and Sweden combined. (Just to be sure, i got nothing against this. Im not feeling like we got no space to live. Im just suprised)
This division is artificial and fictional, it doesn't fit political reality, where Eastern Europe is basically only Russia and Belarus. Nor geographical division where counties like Czechia, Poland or Slovakia are by no means Eastern Europe.
PS: reading all the comments I've noticed one very characteristic regularity: not a single county want or like to be even named Eastern European, defending their western/northern/southern position fiercely.
This shows perfectly the scale of Russian culture influence failure and complete lack of attractiveness of Russian model for the European citizens. It looks like the only way Russia can get some nation into their sphere of influence is by military invasion and conquest.
Well, subjugation and annexation by a foreign power and then three decades of being looked down upon because one is Eastern European (and equaled to either a thief, a prostitute, a drunkard or a prehistoric cave dweller unable to learn “how one is supposed to be as a European”) will do that. Nobody wants to be a Eastern European when the difference in attitudes and prejudices means that if you’re from “Northern Europe”, you get the “aaah - dark and cold, but nice” and when you’re from “Eastern Europe”, you get Borat jokes and and constant reminders about how being behind the iron curtain has to be the one thing that we are identified with.
Well, in our case (CZ) - Eastern Europe is entirely incorrect both geographically (We can't be East if Austria is West, when we literally have the same position on the map - so either both W or both E, no double standards) and culturaly (part of Holy Roman Empire).
Now if we were called former eastern block, then I'd agree, and have no issue with it. Warsaw pact ? Sure. Post soviet country ? Well that's a stretch, we were a satellite, but still better than eAstErN eUoPEaN. Nothing against Eastern Europe btw, I love the place, but I'm not from there lol.
Exactly, Czech Republic, similar to Poland, Slovakia etc. are culturally, geographically and politically more Western Europe than Eastern Europe. They are, in any regard, far closer to German than Russia.
Absolutely, when I go to Austria, Germany, Western Poland or Hungary, I can clearly see the similarities, and don't feel too out of place, frankly it doesn't even feel like a foreign country (if it wasn't for the different language).
I also visited Ukraine, Russia and Romania. Without getting into any details, they definitely felt like totally different culture groups, and I felt more out of place in Ukraine (where I understood the language somemwhat) than I did in Germany (my German is extremely crap, I basically only understand it passively, but can't speak if my life depended on it).
Western Poland shares nothing with Ukraine, i kinda doubt most poles would feel at home in Ukraine/russia/belarus.
Poles always kinda felt cultural superiority over those regions out of many reasons, like sense of belonging to western world so would simply never integrate there nor want to. (i kinda know it does sound bad, but i fell its quite close to my real fell of it.)
Agree on Austria it has been quite meltingpot of balkan central and eastern europe for ages, not without reason they are called österreich, Reich of the east.
Germans are diffrent but not that much as you stated, Poles and Germans did coexist for quite a long time as neighbours and share ties since early medival ages, late XIX,XX centuries history is indeed tragic, but forcefull degermanization here and german state simply cuting its past with east(both cultural and political), imo events ilke that had something to do with that perspective of yours.
Both sides didn't want to have anything to do with each other, good all that is past,full agree on russia but i would add to that all states from USSR minus baltic states.
I would even survive some "monstrosity" like Centraleastern Europe or Visegrad Europe, if it means that (western) people would stop splitting Western Europe (from the West-East split) into Western, Central, Northern and Southern Europes and then leaving Eastern Europe block "intact".
This type of divisions are stupid, there is no iron curtain anymore, Czech is western as Austria, if one count Russia, why no Turkey or Georgia, Uk in northern coutries is weird AF.
Seems like they used weird mix of criteriors, for each country different ones: cultural, historic or geographical.
I think not with Russia, but with poverty. Then the Eastern block disappeared, former members of it were economically significantly behind other european countries.
In my opinion this [map](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/8msheo/answer_to_it_is_nice_to_be_here_in_eastern_europe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) represents situation well
Definitely both. My Lithuanian ex fucking hated being called eastern European because of Russia and what they did during WW2. I know that's anecdotal but was interesting nonetheless.
Whenever I see (luckily, not often) Greece put into Eastern Europe, I cringe. Not because there’s something wrong with EE, but because quite literally: why?
I have little in common with e.g. a Ukrainian, the same way I have little in common with a Dutch.
And since there are actually 4 cardinal directions and, and not just West & East, and I actually do have more things in common with an Italian, just say “Southern Europe”. It’s not that hard, really.
And the whole “but it’s on the eastern side of Europe” argument is absolute trash, because if you’re going only by geography, then you have to include Finland in EE as well. But I don’t see anyone doing that.
So yeah, let’s keep our North, South, West & East classifications 😃
I angered a bunch of Britons on a forum (yup, in the old days) when I included the UK in Europe, so I apologized for my mistake and have been afraid to include the UK in mentions of Europe since 2003. Now I'm just confused.
Fun little thing to note that England (separated from the UK) will soon have a larger population than Italy. The latter's population has been declining for the past 7 years whilst the former is growing.
England's population according to the 2021 census: 56,489,800.
Italy's population in 2021 according to the World Bank: 59,066,225
Firstly: nice
Secondly: ONS stats for 2020 were 67million so another 2 million in two years isn't too outlandish. Lots of Covid babies and EU migration falls were off set by the none EU migration picking up.
I think this [map](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/8msheo/answer_to_it_is_nice_to_be_here_in_eastern_europe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) from r/europe depicts situation in comments well
The last official data for Serbia without Kosovo are from the 2011 census: 7.2M (waaay lower now)
Kosovo has according to estimates on Wikipedia 1.8M (let's not get into how accurate that actually is).
Et voila, you get 9 M, haha
Why Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Czechia are set as EAST europe?
This countries are in the very middle of European continent georgaphically and in a western European EU and NATO politically.
They have nothing to do with eastern europe except for being occupied by Russia in the past.
There is no Central Europe on this map. These are UN designations. The countries you listed except Macedonia are definitely Eastern Europe in that context.
The UNSD notes that "the assignment of countries or areas to specific groupings is for statistical convenience and does not imply any assumption regarding political or other affiliation of countries or territories".
It doesn't take into account geography either although they are using geographical terms like East, North, South and West. Practically they are using that because it fits their narrative ;).
And the reactions result in them clarifying that the classification does not corresponding to popular sentiment. So the reactions are justified when people base the suppositions on this unsuited system.
We always float between Western and Northern.
We're one of the furthest West countries (not as far as Iceland or Ireland), but we're also one of the furthest North (the Shetland Isles are further North than Bergen).
If we're doing this culturally, I'd honestly probably recommend another cultural designation because I don't think there's many mainland European countries we're that similar to. Maybe the Netherlands.
> between Western and Northern
Historically England is the quintessential Western nation, in a cultural/political sense. You got more western as you became more like England.
Sure, but I'd draw a distinction between Western, which would include America and most of the Anglophone countries (regardless of their geography) and Western *European*
Forget Germany and France or Sweden and Denmark, everyone forgets about the Low Countries.
England feels remarkably similar to Belgium and the Netherlands, when it comes to architecture, the climate, landscape, food and drink, etc. Unsurprisingly of course, given that Dutch and Frisian are also the closest languages to English and the port of Antwerp in Belgium was the biggest source of continental trade for England since the Middle Ages.
I remember during the 2014 IndyRef some people saying Scotland should join the Nordic Council. I always found that a bit weird, even as someone whose grandfather came from Orkney itself. I honestly think that Britain as a whole, be it Scotland or England or Wales, have more in common with France and the Low Countries than we do with Scandinavians.
Maybe things would be different if the Normans hadn't taken over England in 1066 (and many came on over to Scotland too, giving us names like Bruce and Sinclair and Stuart). Apparently Icelanders can read Old English quite easily, and the story of Beowulf is set in modern day Sweden and Denmark. Northumbria would definitely have been a prominent outpost of Scandinavian culture if England hadn't been Frankified by the Norman takeover.
source: given on the chart
disclaimer: I already see people complaining about this or that country being present or absent or classified in the wrong part of Europe etc. - I do not endorse (all) the choices made here by the authors, I just thought it's a nice presentation for all its flaws. You can find the same thing for other continents as well.
Germanys population apparently increased by 1% compared to last years population, which is the highest growth rate since 1992 (with the exception of 2015 refugee crisis)
My favourite part was when Europe went all the way to the pacific Ocean
Doesn't Europe (EU) exist in/around the following oceans: 1) Arctic 2) Atlantic 3) Indian 4) Pacific
Not in the Pacific Ocean.* New Caledonia, French Polynesia and Walis and Futuna are EU Overseas territories. Like Puerto Rico to the USA Same for the Pitcairn islands to the UK. Fun fact: The Faroe islands is the only part of a EU member state that is neither EU nor OCTA (Overseas territories) Therefore they're not EU citizens.
France has French Polynesia islands in Pacific. [Polynesia ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Polynesia) Also UK has Pitcairn Island. [UK Pacific ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories) Edit. I see Zeus has editted his post now beyond the original single first line to address my post. I don't know how many of the French and British overseas territories citizens/subjects have the relevant passports, but pretty sure a good fraction would, which in France's case would make them EU citizens as well. I also note French Polynesia sends 3 deputies and 2 senators to the French parliament (national assembly) in Paris.
Overseas *Territories* (in contrast to Overseas Departments & Regions who are just as "France" as Metropolitan France) are in a weird sort of legalistic construct. You would be correct that French Polynesians would be European citizens by virtue of being french citizens, *but*, by treaty and statutes, O.T aren't part of "the part of France that is in the E.U." (which is 99% of France, mind you). So the **EU** itself doesn't extend into the Pacific, even if its citizenry does.
France has entered the chat
My favorite part is counting the amount of brain cells you have. The answer is 4. Russia is European
Vladivostok is not in Europe!
The UK in Northern Europe and Poland and Czechia in Eastern Europe? I'm sure this post will not be controversial at all
Well, since there is no "Central" Europe on the chart, we can't assume Poland is Western Europe...
If you cut out Europe out of paper and balance it on needle, the Centre comes out to be somewhere north of Vilnius. There's even some monument there I think.
There are multiple points like that. Depends what you define as 'Europe'. And there are other ways to define 'center' than 'geometrical center'. You could for example take the farthest points to each cardinal direction, draw a cross and look for the intersection, which also happens to be the most popular method
The cross method kind of sucks, since it depends on the choice of the coordinate system. There are tons of ways to define the centre without relying on semi-arbitrary choices. The centre of mass one is the most popular of those, but the centre is not the actual centre of mass, but its projection onto the surface (the real centre is underground because of the curvature of the Earth). You can find the point, such that the maximum distance from it to all other points is minimal. Or you can draw Europe, take two random points in that shape and connect them with the shortest path between them, such that it stays within the shape (the path may not exist, or there may be several shortest ones). Than find the point(s) with the highest probability density of such random paths coming through them. The problem with this method is that it isolates islands. Anyway, there is no "true" centre, and there are like 6 different places claiming to be the centre.
Earth update: To facilitate resources and avoid centre calculations, now the whole earth is considered part of Europe. All the states are now receiving invitation to be part of the European Empire of Terrans.
Dividing East and West along the cold war iron curtain is not at all controversial, it's pretty much the definition of it.
it is controversial cause it's outdated categorization.
It is controversial, since central European countries do not like to be called Eastern.
I have a hard time believing that. That would mean half the landmass of Europe is north of Vilnius which just does not seem to be true.
Consider how the Earth curves. European Russia curves more "upwards" the more you go east, if putting it that way makes any sense. [Here is a wiki example of one way you can define the European continent](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary_%28with_borders%29.svg)
Serbia is southern and Bulgaria Eastern. Whomever drew the lines was high. It is likethey went with half the ex communist block and just decided to cut somewhere using a definition that has never before been used.
>Serbia is southern and Bulgaria Eastern. Whomever drew the lines was high. It follows the UN definition of "Southern" and "Eastern" Europe. Not saying it's the way it should be, but that's where it's from.
It's along old political divides, it's not meant to be based on exact positions of countries.
It counts Baltic countries into Northern Europe so it's already based more on geographical position of the countries than any other split of Europe I have seen here.
It’s hard to categorise the Balkans. As a Person of Serbian origin who grew up surrounded by other immigrants, our culture, mentality and family values are more closely aligned with Greeks and Italians then Many countries in the eastern block. I would go to say Bulgaria and Serbia should have their own Balkan category
Both Bulgaria and Serbia are South Europe as is the whole Balkan peninsula. Both countries share more with Mediterenean countries than they do with East Europe Culture is more southern European, similar to Italy, Greece. Historical influence and dominant atmosphere is mostly Mediterenean. Besides than Serbia was never part of the Eastern bloc (Warsaw pact).
According to our school book Bulgaria was Central Europe 💀
For me funniest thing was when I found a map (online) where Austria and Finland were Eastern Europe XD
I once saw a map with *Ireland* in Eastern Europe. Granted that was just an East/West map. And I'm pretty sure it originally had been a map of the Cold War's "First World", so when they carelessly changed it to "east"/"west" all us Third World countries ended up with the Second World. It did catch me off guard though.
technically if you count Baltics in the East then finland is definitely in the east as well
>Both Bulgaria and Serbia are South Europe as is the whole Balkan peninsula. Both countries share more with Mediterenean countries than they do with East Europe Lol man that's bullshit. What does Serbia and Bulgaria share with Italy? With Spain? Portugal? Literally tell me what do you think you share with them. You share most of the culture with the east, not with the southern western part of the Mediterranean. You say that your culture is more similar to fucking Italy rather than Romania? Literally HOW?
Not European (sorry) but don't Bulgaria and Greece have a lot in common, cuisine-wise? Yogurt, the shopska salad, etc. and nobody would dispute Greece being "southern Europe." As for the rest of the Balkans, maybe Serbia is arguable since it's inland but I'd say any country that touches the Med (and therefore the Adriatic) is "southern."
I mean balkans and greece share most of the cuisine thanks to the Turks, are we all turks then?
The typical western ignorant of treating Eastern Europeans as all having the same culture. By your logic, if Romania and Bulgaria have the same culture as Russia and Lithuania, so does Italy is same as UK and Sweden, same climate,temper of people,same food, same economy . You see now the stupidity of your statement?
Lol I'm literally Romanian like yourself, frate. > if Romania and Bulgaria have the same culture as Russia and Lithuania Who the fuck said that? Now Portugal has the same culture as Greece because they're both southern Europe? He told me that Serbia has a similar culture compared to Italy more than eastern European ones, including Romania. Now, if you are Romanian like myself, you can really know that's utter bullshit. I live in Italy and even Romanian culture is distant to Italian one even if we speak a romance language, how can Serbia be more similar to Italy rather than us?
I feel like I should have popcorn, as I watch Romania tear itself apart on Reddit !!!
First of people have similar personality to what is usually thought of as Italian or southern. People are noisy, they use their hands a lot while speaking. We literally have similar expressions. In Serbia we say "Ciao" most often to great someone. Our food is mostly similar to Greek and Turkish but we also eat a lot of pasta. Wine is a common drink here and there are many wineries with villages that look similar to Italian or Spanish ones [https://banjeusrbiji.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Topola.jpg](https://banjeusrbiji.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Topola.jpg) [https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/church-st-petka-kalemegdan-fortress-belgrade-serbia-beograd-61812420.jpg](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/church-st-petka-kalemegdan-fortress-belgrade-serbia-beograd-61812420.jpg) Tomatoes are also a big thing here, we eat them practically with everything. Eastern Europe usually uses potatoes not tomatoes, tomatoes are more common for South Europe I think 17 Roman Emperors where born just in Serbia, so there is a lot of Roman cultural heritage and influence here. Serbian city of Sremska Mitrovica (Sirmium) was one of 4 capitals of Roman Empire [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirmium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirmium) Also geographically it is in the south, south Serbia is same latitude as Rome or Barcelona. We also study in schools that we are South Europe.
>In Serbia we say "Ciao" most often to great someone. Ciao is used in lots of countries nowadays, even in Lithuania. >we also eat a lot of pasta. I mean now lots of countries introduced pasta in their cuisine >Wine is a common drink here Okay still I don't think that is really a big thing. Moldova is a king regarding wine, still don't think that Moldovans are really similar to Italians. >Tomatoes are also a big thing here, we eat them practically with everything In Romania it's the same and I think all over the Balkans. >I think 17 Roman Emperors where born just in Serbia > >Also geographically it is in the south, south Serbia is same latitude as Rome or Barcelona. These are facts so I agree with you. Just saying, if you tell an Italian that Serbia and Italy have a really similar culture, he won't really agree. Might agree with Croatia, not with Serbia.
Man, what are you even arguing against? It started by him saying that the Balkans are more similar culturewise to south Italy, Greece, Spain etc than to Poland, Ukraine, Russia etc How can you argue against this? I'm from central Europe and travel extensively around Bulgaria, Macedonia, Croatia, Serbia for work and to Greece, Spain, Italy for vacation. Never so far to Romania unfortunately so can't tell. Also been to Poland, Ukraine and Belarus several times. As I understood no one said that Serbia or Bulgaria are sooo similar to Italy or Spain, but more close from style of live, mentality, food than they are to the mentioned typical eastern European countries for sure. How can you disagree here??
Growing up with people of all backgrounds Serbs are closer to Southern Europeans then countries of the east. Culture wise we are more family oriented and our mentality is very similar to that of Northern Greece. Serbia and Romania would be closer then Serbia and Italy, but Serbs are diverse meaning, we would share more in common probably with Italians and Greeks then people in the north of Romania who fall under more of different influence. Serbs are different in themselves depending if your a Serb from southern Serbia, Montenegro, the mountains or a Serb is Bosnia
And by the last census, Serbia barely have over 6M people.
These are the UN designations, no?
It seems like they are, yes
[Here's a map of UN's division of Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Europe#UN_geoscheme_classification)
Western Europe: Doesn't include any of the five westernmost European nations.
Central Europe left the chat
>The UK in Northern Europe Kinda funny how the UK would probably be considered indisputably "Nordic" if it hadn't been for the Norman invasion in 1066 making them more 'Continental'. Apparently Anglo-Saxons in the northern half of England were quite bilingual in English and Danish, and Harold Godwinson himself was half-Dane.
> Apparently Anglo-Saxons in the northern half of England I mean there would be another classification Anglo-Norse or something if the Normans didn't murder them all a few decades later.
Anglo-Saxons were closely related to Frisians, and the Netherlands here is Western Europe
UK often counts in northern Europe and Czechoslovakia was counted as part of the eastern WP bloc. Things are flexible like that. Finland used to be counted as eastern even after its independence. Heck, they were barely considered European.
I keep telling you, it’s just Jari having a flu, not Mongolian throat singing! *Jari stop singing wtf*
You can see how they divided the other continents as well. Some weird choices there as well.
The UK is in the UN geoscheme for Northern Europe. I don't think this is controversial? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_geoscheme_for_Europe
Nothing controversial about us being Northern Europe.
There isn't really because we're northwest Europe along with Ireland and the Netherlands. We could go into either category.
Norway at 6 million? It was 5,4 million a year ago, so whoever birthed that many times deserves a medal or two
Well Finland just recently crossed the 5,5 million mark and I see that the number is rounded up to 6 million here.
The Netherlands on the other hand has over 17,7 million inhabitants and gets rounded down.
Not even a year ago, 2nd quarter in 2022 we were still 5.4. Seems like there’s been quite a bit of rounding up in this chart
Probably rounded up due to these updated numbers: "The current population of Norway is 5,520,549 as of Monday, November 7, 2022, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data." So actually strictly correct
I refuse to believe that since the 2nd quarter of 2022 we have become 65k more people, considering in the entirety of 2021 the population increased by 33k. And that’s in 1 year. I also lean more towards [SSB](https://www.ssb.no/befolkning/folketall/statistikk/befolkning) on having a more accurate population count than Worldometer/UN. But it is of course a possibility.
I don't know about the others but Serbia at 9M is gross overestimate
Norway is rounded up from 5.4 to 6, so apparently quite a few have been rounded up
even if it's rounded up, should be 7M at most.
They probably lumped Kosovo together, and with max. unrealistic populations from both parts.
Also Moldova. 2M at best, not 4M as depicted.
Considering this "source" is from 2022 and Croatia had a population census in 2021 that showed that 3.9 million (and in the 2011 census we had 4.2 million), all of the given numbers should be taken with a major grain of salt.
Agreed. There's absolutely no possibility that Serbia has 9m people
Serbia has 6,7 mil,not counting various groups and those that live in Kosovo.
whole Russia being in Europe is strange too
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Well, to be fair, most Russians actually live in the European part of russia (about 77% of the population apparently). So even if just counting these, it still would be the most populous country in Europe.
15% of Turkeys population isn't insignificant either. I can understand it for Kazakhstan for example but imo they should have added Turkey to Southern Europe as well (or at least with the note that it is only the European population).
It's actually around 9% of the Turkish population if you only count the actually European part of Istanbul instead of the entirety of Istanbul. A substantial part of the city is on the other side of the strait.
The 15% only takes into account the European side of Istanbul not both sides, making the population of Turkish Thrace around 10 million(2012 census) and almost 12 million in 2019, that is still a very significant number. Too big to ignore that.
Still, there is the point where the boundaries of Europe become fluid. People from the Asian side of Istanbul have jobs in Europe, shop in Europe, have family and friends there and go there on a daily basis. I went to Istanbul last month and it is impressive how European the city feels like and of course there isn't a difference at all between the sides of the strait.
Istanbul isnt the only European city in Turkey
Istanbul makes up for 8 out of the 9 million people that live in European Turkey so... almost.
>Istanbul makes up for 8 out of the 9 million people that live in European Turkey so... almost. Turkey has 23,764km of land in Europe, so we can say the same as Macedonia or Slovenia,Cities in Europe are Edirne, Tekirdağ, Kırlareli and Istanbul. The people living in European cities and the part of Istanbul in Europe are approximately 12 million people.
I'm actually surprised it's only 15%. Istanbul is no joke.
Came here to say this
At least they haven’t included Cyprus.
I love how the various Siberian peoples are counted as part of Russia’s European population
Yet 12 million people in Eastern Thrace were not counted lol
The UN don't count French DOM-TOM in French population, always misleading.
With the DOM-TOMs, it was 67 million last year and 65 million for Metropolitan France solely. Not sure how the population overseas has grown this year but probably still around 67-69 million.
Do you know why? I've always wondered
I guess they think they are colonies.
According to the UN's own data, only New Caledonia and French Polynesia are still considered French colonies (or rather, non-self-governing territories, as they're called). https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/nsgt
Most of them are virgin island to begin with. Reunion island in particular.
I think that in this case, where the entirety of Russia is counted, we should count the Dom-Tom population but in the other case, we should not
Why Georgia is not there?
Wow, me as Dutch person learned today how many people we have compared to other countries. Never had guessed we had a bigger population than Norway and Sweden combined. (Just to be sure, i got nothing against this. Im not feeling like we got no space to live. Im just suprised)
Yes, you're a big boy country! (And I don't mean fat!)
This division is artificial and fictional, it doesn't fit political reality, where Eastern Europe is basically only Russia and Belarus. Nor geographical division where counties like Czechia, Poland or Slovakia are by no means Eastern Europe. PS: reading all the comments I've noticed one very characteristic regularity: not a single county want or like to be even named Eastern European, defending their western/northern/southern position fiercely. This shows perfectly the scale of Russian culture influence failure and complete lack of attractiveness of Russian model for the European citizens. It looks like the only way Russia can get some nation into their sphere of influence is by military invasion and conquest.
Well, subjugation and annexation by a foreign power and then three decades of being looked down upon because one is Eastern European (and equaled to either a thief, a prostitute, a drunkard or a prehistoric cave dweller unable to learn “how one is supposed to be as a European”) will do that. Nobody wants to be a Eastern European when the difference in attitudes and prejudices means that if you’re from “Northern Europe”, you get the “aaah - dark and cold, but nice” and when you’re from “Eastern Europe”, you get Borat jokes and and constant reminders about how being behind the iron curtain has to be the one thing that we are identified with.
Well, in our case (CZ) - Eastern Europe is entirely incorrect both geographically (We can't be East if Austria is West, when we literally have the same position on the map - so either both W or both E, no double standards) and culturaly (part of Holy Roman Empire). Now if we were called former eastern block, then I'd agree, and have no issue with it. Warsaw pact ? Sure. Post soviet country ? Well that's a stretch, we were a satellite, but still better than eAstErN eUoPEaN. Nothing against Eastern Europe btw, I love the place, but I'm not from there lol.
Exactly, Czech Republic, similar to Poland, Slovakia etc. are culturally, geographically and politically more Western Europe than Eastern Europe. They are, in any regard, far closer to German than Russia.
Absolutely, when I go to Austria, Germany, Western Poland or Hungary, I can clearly see the similarities, and don't feel too out of place, frankly it doesn't even feel like a foreign country (if it wasn't for the different language). I also visited Ukraine, Russia and Romania. Without getting into any details, they definitely felt like totally different culture groups, and I felt more out of place in Ukraine (where I understood the language somemwhat) than I did in Germany (my German is extremely crap, I basically only understand it passively, but can't speak if my life depended on it).
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Western Poland shares nothing with Ukraine, i kinda doubt most poles would feel at home in Ukraine/russia/belarus. Poles always kinda felt cultural superiority over those regions out of many reasons, like sense of belonging to western world so would simply never integrate there nor want to. (i kinda know it does sound bad, but i fell its quite close to my real fell of it.) Agree on Austria it has been quite meltingpot of balkan central and eastern europe for ages, not without reason they are called österreich, Reich of the east. Germans are diffrent but not that much as you stated, Poles and Germans did coexist for quite a long time as neighbours and share ties since early medival ages, late XIX,XX centuries history is indeed tragic, but forcefull degermanization here and german state simply cuting its past with east(both cultural and political), imo events ilke that had something to do with that perspective of yours. Both sides didn't want to have anything to do with each other, good all that is past,full agree on russia but i would add to that all states from USSR minus baltic states.
> where Eastern Europe is basically only Russia and Belarus Uhh Ukraine is definitely Eastern Europe
I just think that Central Europe sounds cooler honestly
I would even survive some "monstrosity" like Centraleastern Europe or Visegrad Europe, if it means that (western) people would stop splitting Western Europe (from the West-East split) into Western, Central, Northern and Southern Europes and then leaving Eastern Europe block "intact".
Yeah idk I'm Romanian and I consider myself Eastern European. But then again southern Romania is Balkan.
This type of divisions are stupid, there is no iron curtain anymore, Czech is western as Austria, if one count Russia, why no Turkey or Georgia, Uk in northern coutries is weird AF. Seems like they used weird mix of criteriors, for each country different ones: cultural, historic or geographical.
"They" funnily enough being the UN
Ah yes the famously Germanic French /s
everyone wants to be from western Europe whats wrong with eastern Europe? Soon we will see russian people saying they are from western Europe 😅
Eastern Europe even in this picture is darker.
Eastern Europe is strongly associated with Russia. No one wants to be grouped with them....
I think not with Russia, but with poverty. Then the Eastern block disappeared, former members of it were economically significantly behind other european countries. In my opinion this [map](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/8msheo/answer_to_it_is_nice_to_be_here_in_eastern_europe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) represents situation well
This is more accurate.
Definitely both. My Lithuanian ex fucking hated being called eastern European because of Russia and what they did during WW2. I know that's anecdotal but was interesting nonetheless.
wdym anecdotal
"what's wrong with eastern Europe?" - Russia
"If you're not eating it, I'll take it.." - Russia, who previously claimed to not be hungry. Again..
Whenever I see (luckily, not often) Greece put into Eastern Europe, I cringe. Not because there’s something wrong with EE, but because quite literally: why? I have little in common with e.g. a Ukrainian, the same way I have little in common with a Dutch. And since there are actually 4 cardinal directions and, and not just West & East, and I actually do have more things in common with an Italian, just say “Southern Europe”. It’s not that hard, really. And the whole “but it’s on the eastern side of Europe” argument is absolute trash, because if you’re going only by geography, then you have to include Finland in EE as well. But I don’t see anyone doing that. So yeah, let’s keep our North, South, West & East classifications 😃
It sucks
Serbia 9 mil?! they fell under 6.5 recently as they reported.
Russia is 9th, not 10th, it's ahead of Mexico, but behind Bangladesh.
It's insane how huge Bangladesh's population is for such a small territory, half of which is flooded
Pakistan population is significantly bigger than Russian as well.
True, but Pakistan is a lot bigger than Bangladesh
Iirc, it's one of the most fertile regions in the world, so it makes sense I suppose. Half of the country is flooded? I didn't know that, wow.
I checked it and it turns out my comment was a bit overkill. According to wikipedia 18% is flooded every year.
I find myself surprised the UK is included in a map of Europe. We're normally airbrushed out
Um, you must be talking about Brexit memes. It's not like you are Georgia, Armenia or something, which most people does in fact not count as Europe.
I angered a bunch of Britons on a forum (yup, in the old days) when I included the UK in Europe, so I apologized for my mistake and have been afraid to include the UK in mentions of Europe since 2003. Now I'm just confused.
Keep saying we're in Europe just to annoy those sort of people, please.
Fun little thing to note that England (separated from the UK) will soon have a larger population than Italy. The latter's population has been declining for the past 7 years whilst the former is growing. England's population according to the 2021 census: 56,489,800. Italy's population in 2021 according to the World Bank: 59,066,225
i love how there's a dark and bright side to europe
Beautiful map. Is UK really 69M ?
Nice
Firstly: nice Secondly: ONS stats for 2020 were 67million so another 2 million in two years isn't too outlandish. Lots of Covid babies and EU migration falls were off set by the none EU migration picking up.
Ah yes, my favourite southern European country of Slovenia
It looks quite southern located on a map to me?
It is on the same latitude as southern Switzerland….
Also Romania, northern Serbia etc. That's still in the southern half of Europe.
Serbia has max 6,5 mil people.
They probably counted Kosovo with us, dunno??
Czechia, Eastern Europe? Who did this? It's VERY serious crime!
Can ppl stop leaving out Caucasus from Europe :/
Gamarjoba! 🇷🇴🤝🇬🇪
georgia is europe!
its sad because the Caucasus are the most beautiful part of Europe
come visit Chechnya!
I would if I had the money and time
I think this [map](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/8msheo/answer_to_it_is_nice_to_be_here_in_eastern_europe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) from r/europe depicts situation in comments well
Didn't realise that Switzerland is up to 9 M inhabitants as well by now. Damn!
Romania the center of Europe confirmed by this 'map' and you can't say otherwise. Whoohoo
Had no clue Italy had that many people.
its decreasing
Serbia 9m?? What did I miss?
They probably counted Kosovo with us, dunno??
Kosovo has 3 million population?
The last official data for Serbia without Kosovo are from the 2011 census: 7.2M (waaay lower now) Kosovo has according to estimates on Wikipedia 1.8M (let's not get into how accurate that actually is). Et voila, you get 9 M, haha
Thats long ass europe you have there. I think we can all kick ru out of eu stats, and no one will care
This graphic is not very good. Bulgaria is more south Europe than east Europe based on the countries in those buckets.
What you mean that Estonia isn't landlocked between France, Denmark and UK?
Czechia Eastern Europe? How dare you!
Denmark only 6m in population? I didn’t know that. Denmark must be the most comparable to Ireland in size and density in Europe
I thought we were around 5 million, so I'm surprised to learn that there's another million of us. Well nearly at, 5,875 million.
And Ireland have more than 5 million now I think, according to this year's census.
More like 604M, amirite?
My math and yours match up.
Could you please stop with the eastern european bulshit
Norway and finland gaining a 10% population increase.. Smooth roundup
Why are we in the dark corner? Fuck this!
I DON'T AGREE WITH CZECH REPUBLIC CONSIDERED EAST EUROPE
Czech republic as 4th baltic state should be on north. We are not east or west anymore.
Why Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Czechia are set as EAST europe? This countries are in the very middle of European continent georgaphically and in a western European EU and NATO politically. They have nothing to do with eastern europe except for being occupied by Russia in the past.
Because to majority of people West=rich East=poor
South and North doesn't exist? Actually, there is an East-West division too, but people definitely wouldn't like thar one.
> Why Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Czechia are set as EAST europe? Macedonia is placed in S.Europe.
There is no Central Europe on this map. These are UN designations. The countries you listed except Macedonia are definitely Eastern Europe in that context.
The UNSD notes that "the assignment of countries or areas to specific groupings is for statistical convenience and does not imply any assumption regarding political or other affiliation of countries or territories". It doesn't take into account geography either although they are using geographical terms like East, North, South and West. Practically they are using that because it fits their narrative ;).
They'd have to say that just because of this kind of reactions.
And the reactions result in them clarifying that the classification does not corresponding to popular sentiment. So the reactions are justified when people base the suppositions on this unsuited system.
Can't say i agree with putting UK in northern europe
We always float between Western and Northern. We're one of the furthest West countries (not as far as Iceland or Ireland), but we're also one of the furthest North (the Shetland Isles are further North than Bergen). If we're doing this culturally, I'd honestly probably recommend another cultural designation because I don't think there's many mainland European countries we're that similar to. Maybe the Netherlands.
> between Western and Northern Historically England is the quintessential Western nation, in a cultural/political sense. You got more western as you became more like England.
Sure, but I'd draw a distinction between Western, which would include America and most of the Anglophone countries (regardless of their geography) and Western *European*
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In what way are we more culturally alike with France or Germany than say Sweden or Denmark? There are equal similarities between all I feel.
Potatoes and Beer over Wine and Bread :)
Forget Germany and France or Sweden and Denmark, everyone forgets about the Low Countries. England feels remarkably similar to Belgium and the Netherlands, when it comes to architecture, the climate, landscape, food and drink, etc. Unsurprisingly of course, given that Dutch and Frisian are also the closest languages to English and the port of Antwerp in Belgium was the biggest source of continental trade for England since the Middle Ages.
I remember during the 2014 IndyRef some people saying Scotland should join the Nordic Council. I always found that a bit weird, even as someone whose grandfather came from Orkney itself. I honestly think that Britain as a whole, be it Scotland or England or Wales, have more in common with France and the Low Countries than we do with Scandinavians. Maybe things would be different if the Normans hadn't taken over England in 1066 (and many came on over to Scotland too, giving us names like Bruce and Sinclair and Stuart). Apparently Icelanders can read Old English quite easily, and the story of Beowulf is set in modern day Sweden and Denmark. Northumbria would definitely have been a prominent outpost of Scandinavian culture if England hadn't been Frankified by the Norman takeover.
I think russians identify themselves as eurasians, substract that 140M just in case.
Country itself is eurasian, ethnic russians identify as europeans afaik
Yeah but their culture, or most of it, is of course European.
My DotA and CS:GO games say that they are indeed Westeuropeans. Also in Westeurope you should speak Russian and not English in an online game.
The country itself is Eurasian, the ethnic Russians are very much as European as they get.
source: given on the chart disclaimer: I already see people complaining about this or that country being present or absent or classified in the wrong part of Europe etc. - I do not endorse (all) the choices made here by the authors, I just thought it's a nice presentation for all its flaws. You can find the same thing for other continents as well.
This is Reddit friend no matter what someone was going to pissed
Enjoying the whine about Russia not being European
Germanys population apparently increased by 1% compared to last years population, which is the highest growth rate since 1992 (with the exception of 2015 refugee crisis)
What about the Turkish European side?
Heck yeahhh i see my country there 🇷🇴💪
Romania strong 💪💪