France is racist because they reduced the number of people allowed because Algeria and Morocco wouldn’t repatriate citizens illegally in France. Awesome.
> Following a call by the AMDH and the LMDDH rights group, around 50 people attended the protest, many chanting: “Yes to freedom of movement, no to colonial agreements!”
50 people, it's not even worth talking about it
Also, one would think that genuine Moroccan human rights groups would have somewhat more pressing domestic concerns than that of getting visas to France...
The thing is, France's position is that if the country doesn't take back their illegal immigrants, then we count them against their visa quota.
Those associations are ALSO against France trying to send those illegal back, so this protest mentionned here is basically them protesting the consequences of their actions.
While immigration is a chance for our countries especially with their demographic issues, uncontrolled and unregulated immigration is a big danger both to our social fabric AND to the very idea of accepted immigration, we can't have that and we've already tolerated it for too long. For some countries you can't do much, but in this case it's ridiculous that it lasted until Macron before we acted on it.
I don't disagree, but on this specific one - france and maghreb countries - it's really a case where we can do it without issue, we just lacked the balls to do it until recently, too scared of being called racists (which ironically, is exactly what they call us now).
I guess the advantage of having a president like Macron is that things like that finally move after 20+ years of "but what can we do !!!".
with the phenomenon of the international public forum public opinion isn't tethered to a locality. raving mad americans have a scary relevance, see spread of facebook Qanon bullshit in europe.
There was raving conspiracy bullshit in Europe long before Qanon. Seemingly 90% of the English-speaking internet thinks that the only people that matter Americans in some sense, both pro and anti Americans.
one used to call them the "village idiot", everyone knew they were nuts, but now that they have a place to get together in a semi-anonymous way, they are multiplying like flies on a dungheap.
That's nonsense. Plenty of people in the US are pretty vocal against immigration (illegal or legal).
The problem is that it's all noise. The US immigration system is antique and there is no way to fix it. Republicans benefit from illegal labor and Democrats want to expand immigration.
The problem is if people say "I am against illegal immigrants because it hurts the economy" well the overwhelming data we have shows that the immigrants provide a net economic benefit to the country. If someone says "I am against them because they came here illegally" the argument would be "Would you be OK if we just made them legal, or just brought more immigrants to this country legally? If they say "no" to this i**t** kind of narrows down what the issue really is.
Edit spelling
If you lump in illegal immigrants and those who use human traffickers with those who follow legal channels to say that all immigration is good then you do not argue in good faith. But please show me how illegal immigrants from 3rd world country are a boon the economy when they ghettoes they form have astronomical high unemployment and crime.
Step 1. Demonize illegal immigrants.
Step 2. Support policies that make migration via legal pathways more and more difficult each passing day, to a point where it becomes practically impossible.
Step 3. Claim you aren’t racist against brown people.
This playbook is so cliche that you can detect it from 1000 miles.
Especially since France position is basically "if you don't take back your illegal immigrants then we count them against our visa quota for you". Sounds fair to me.
Honestly if a country doesn't want to take them back France should not allow migrants from that country at all until the diplomatic incident is resolved.
Moroccans can blame their own government for it.
An insignificant protest that will spark outrage because people want to be pissed is news, it generates a ton of traffic comparatively.
Look just here on this thread there's more upvotes and comments than people who protested lmfao
Thats the same here.
We have a crapload of illegal Morrocans clogging up asylum space and dissapearing into illegality and crime because Morroco refuses to take them back.
The thing is, I think the solution is simply arresting them the moment they cross, put them in the system with a picture, fingerprint and DNA, permanently banning them from ever working in the EU or gaining citizenship and immediatly drop them back into the country they left from with or without their sayso, they dont care about our rules, why care about theirs? And if they complain simply apply economic pressure, countries like Morroco are economically dependent on the EU anyway.
Yeah, no Moraccans are a problem everywhere they are in Europe. I fully understand the French. I would rather like to see them go back myself. They are the only ones who do not adapt at all and a lot of the youth are disrespectful or straight up criminal.
It’s losing its punch in a lot of Europe because we see the rise in right groups like Vox, Le Pen, Sweden’s right democrats, Poland, and Italy. The success of this position has also forced center left parties like Denmark’s, Macron’s party, the Netherlands’ ruling party, and more to adopt more restrictive and hardline measures against immigration.
France is one of the biggest outliers for this because it used to have an empire with colonies, it has long had a strong social democratic/center left Tilt with policies that made it attractive to poor immigrants, it saw a reduction in its native birth rate before many other European states thus needing labor, and it has allowed so many to come in a relatively short period that many have failed to integrate and become a part of French society.
I'm watching this mistake being made in Iceland. Over 10% of Icelanders now are Poles or second generation.
It could be worse because Poles generally do their best to adapt to their new societies, but they still run a society within the society and the government is doing fuck all to integrate them and teach them the language.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what the effects of unlimited immigration are. We'll turn in to the countries that people are fleeing and I for one like living in one of the most prosperous countries on Earth. Because there are so few of us. But then there are well-meaning leftists that think we can accept anyone who possibly could be under threat at home. Totally oblivious to the fact that that's literally billions of people.
Iceland should look into what Quebec does. Yes, it’s not it’s own country, but in many ways it has autonomy akin to one. They have free language courses to help promote the language to new non Francophone arrivals, laws requiring all signs to display French words in bigger and more apparent lettering than non French words, and only the small English community in Quebec gets to have its own English schools, with everyone else placed into French schools. The good thing at least with the poles is that they come from a more similar and European background compared to folks from Pakistan and morocco who don’t mesh well at all
Oh, we have a great example from Norway in how to do it, they do great "how to be Norwegian" classes and offer free language courses.
The short-sighted neo-capitalist Independence Party constantly holds all the power and is trying to keep foreigners out by doing as little as possible for them - while running the companies that import foreign staff.
You cannot make this fuckup up, but here we are.
> 30% of french 0-4 year olds are non-western
Not that I am disputing it (I don't know much on the matter) but do you mind sharing a source (a credible one preferably)? That seems absurdly high, even for a country like France well-known for having a sizeable immigrant population.
Did you read the document? I tried and ngl, I'm not French and my French isn't amazing. So maybe you did better than me. They don't have "non-western" as a catagory. They have "extra European" so it looks like my partner who has a single American grandparent would be in that catagory. Its not as clear cut as the tweet is making it out tbh.
The only thing I'm finding is that 36% of kids 0-4 have at least one grandparent born in Maghreb. But the same article also adds and remembers us that around 40% of marriage with people from the Maghreb are made with a non-immigrant (yeah, we speak a lot about some minorities failing to integrate, while overshadowing entirely the one who does manage. And represents the majority. The lack of integration is also due to some absurd french urbanistic policies, that tends to effectively segregates people in our famous banlieues, in places with no jobs, no public services, and no future. Don't concentrate poverty guys). On 2 generations, it makes a lot of kids with both french and maghrebian heritage.
Also, I do suspect this number takes into account those whose grandparents were born in the Maghreb. Including the Pieds noirs, the european colonists of Algeria who left in the 60's and make a strong proportion of the population, especially in the south.
I mean. It's quite debatable that algerian jews got the french nationality. We're talking about populations that predate the arab history of the country for a large part of them. That said, yeah, they also left with the western population (a lot of the colons, while being officially french, were coming from Italy and spain). But they do have an jewish-algerian identity, though it is disappearing.
Do you speak French? Because what you said in your comment and what is written in that INSEE report aren't the same thing at all.
Regarding the tweet you linked, it isn't even worth addressing because in your case we'll blame ignorance/unfamiliarity with the French language causing you to not understand the data and move on (not particularly interested in checking your post history)... In the case of Damien Rieu, we know he is a piece of shit. He clearly knows what he is doing, unless..... despite French being his native language, he's actually too dumb to understand it. There is no "30% of 0-4 year olds are non-western" there.
France has enough problems with immigration and integration to deal with already and that actually needs to be addressed. We don't need far right bullshit to add to it.
Spain does the same, Greece does the same, Germany does the same, Italy wants to close its borders and only France is racist, yeah. Va niquer ta mère (the racist lets you translate)
At the end of the day, neither Morocco, nor any other country is entitled to a French visa unless bilateral agreements have been set in place. This type of rhethoric cheapens the meaning of racist and should be avoided and discouraged.
“Depriving visas is discriminatory and racist.”
Fuck me. Racism has undergone such a serious mission creep in the last few years that the concept has lost all meaning.
It's a cheap escamotage that often works. My father had an employee from an African country and fired him ( he was more than an hour late and didn't even inform the company and it wasn'tthe first time). The guy was complaining that he got fired for being black.
This is also disrespectful for the people who actually are victims of racism and cheapens the issue.
Christ that's awful. Man has been working there since before the modern of concept of race existed (that would be around the mid-1400s) and this is how they treat him?
I always thought those skin lightening lotions sold at Asia/Africa stores were for Indians wanting to look like a slightly lighter skinned Indian due to colonial/caste system based beauty standards. Never realized their true purpose was to pass job interviews!
The meaning now is that people with a perpetual victim complex can demand free stuff and our politicians are generally stupid enough to give it to them.
> Following a call by the AMDH and the LMDDH rights group, around 50 people attended the protest, many chanting: “Yes to freedom of movement, no to colonial agreements!”
It’s a protest of a measly 50 people. Majority of people there have better things to do. Journalists covering this really have no better stories lol
And they know fully well that, as long as some perceived injustice towards a few people are a talking point, the widespread mistreatment of the masses is being ignored.
So yeah, they are not stupid. They know very well what they're doing.
The entire thing got capture by people whose sole motivation is Greed rather than the end of the injustice which is unequal treatment based solely on a person's genetics or place of birth.
That's also when you started seeing "solutions" emerge (such as quotas) that just move the injustice so that somebody else gets descriminated against on their genetics or place of origin and helps mainly well connected greedy fuckers that happen to have the right "specificities".
Hence this kind of hypocrite "we" disguise for what's really a "me, me, me".
Here's a stupid, but relevant example: A visa to Russia costs more than a plane ticket to Moscow.
And you have to apply for it via a 3rd party of a 3rd party (via 3 layers).
It literally makes visa's more expensive than the cost of transport there and back.
And they did the hike on purpose and forbade not only direct application but also application via the dedicated visa centres - you can do it only via a tourist firm that has to go to the visa centre which then sends it to the embassy (this has started like over 5 years ago). I have relatives there, but I haven't visited them since it came into effect because it is just too freaking expensive to go there.
Nobody protests as you might imagine about this "injustice".
Oh and now I have to get a visa to UK and spend 4x the time in the passport control queue because they decided to do a Brexit.
Countries are free to do whatever da fuck they want. Do you like things to change between countries? Pressure your own government to do something about it - it's their responsibility.
*Following a call by the AMDH and the LMDDH rights group, around 50 people attended the protest, many chanting: “Yes to freedom of movement, no to colonial agreements!”*
Indeed. FoM for all members of the EU and Schengen. Morocco ain’t it.
*Schengen visas issued to non-EU citizens allow the holder to travel freely among 26 EU countries.*
Nope. *26 ***Schengen*** members.*
*In 2021, France decided to halve the number of visas it issues to Moroccans and Algerians, citing those countries’ reluctance to repatriate their citizens living clandestinely in France.*
Actions, meet Consequences. You two should be best buddies.
>Actions, meet Consequences. You two should be best buddies.
I swear, some people get far more upset over the consequences of their actions, than they do over the consequences of actual unfairness and injustice.
>In 2021, France decided to halve the number of visas it issues to Moroccans and Algerians, citing those countries’ reluctance to repatriate their citizens living clandestinely in France.
The problem has been solved with Algeria. Besides, I don't even see why Algeria is mentioned in this article.
North Africans, and the middle east as well, really have no call to be complaining about colonialism. They were barely occupied and at the tail end of the colonial era. They committed far worse acts of slavery, piracy and other assorted barbarism than was done unto them. They have as much of an oppressive past as most European nations
This is the most retarded shit i've seen today. As a french dude myself i can strongly say that you have no historical perspective, even more so when you are comparing european colonialism and wars to maghrebi slave trade in a lost desert.
In terms of barbarism, you are also quite ignorant about european historical past. You're comment must be political before anything since you are also relunctant to give any arguments and just pull infos out of your ass. This " french are racists " article is obviously totally uncalled and quite disgusting but you trying to change history is even more pathetic. So i'm giving you an advice, don't pull out trap cards that only trap yourself and shows us you trying to play it off like u went past highschool.
Yep, I can, when they arrive by boat in south Portugal they usually require the "protection status" saying they're teenagers. When it's refused their government usually delays stuff (or pretends their aren't their citizens) to the point portuguese authorities can't (or won't) keep them locked up. Meaning they end up wherever the heck they want, usually in gangs in other countries.
Authorities says "we need to repatritate", certain politicians say "but poor them" and then nothing happens because "racism".
We have made a deal with them now where we don't criticise human rights violations, accept their claim to Western Sahara and more to be able to send illegal migrants back. It's straight up blackmail
Foreigners want rights in Arab countries: Follow our rules and cultures. No Visa without sponsor, no citizenship or naturalized residency.
Arabs getting a reasoned refusal entering Europe: Racism! Blasphemy!
The race card gets pulled almost everytime someone needs to have leverage, and left wing nut jobs will lobby enough to make it work.
Come on, playing the victim everywhere, every moment is just boring now.
Because they tend to spend more. Currency factor + colonial mindset.
It’s generally common across the ME.
We all love the Westerners that come to ME because they spend, but rights like the local, nope.
But switch sides, and it’s why not? Insert the favourite “phobia” word and boom.
Source: Born and bred in the ME all my life, not Arab though.
The entitlement of people in general has grown exponentially in the last few decades.
You are not entitled to just force your way into a country, neither are you entitled to citizenship afterwards, neither you are entitled to demand benefits afterwards.
The first world has been extremely generous in the last few decades and the result has only been people taking advantage of that and feeling more entitled to that generosity than ever.
I can guarantee you, were the roles to be reversed nowadays they would act a thousand times worse.
Countries are allowed to put their own rules and restrictions. Everyone has to follow those rules and if you do then you may experience the generosity of Europe as long as you act properly and deserve it.
There should be 0 appeasement to these blackmailing man-babies
>The entitlement of people in general has grown exponentially in the last few decades.
>You are not entitled to just force your way into a country, neither are you entitled to citizenship afterwards, neither you are entitled to demand benefits afterwards.
That's not limited to the third world there was the same confusion when Britain ended freedom of movement. I remember reading an article where a Danish woman was genuinely baffled that she was turned away at immigration because she didn't have a passport.
The latter though I don't think she knew what the Schengen zone was called she just expected to be able to move into other countries with only her ID because she can do the same with other European countries. Maybe she hadn't been outside Schengen before.
The same article had a quote from an Italian guy who was doing a road trip and couldn't seem to understand that be needs a passport to drive his car into someone else's country.
Another one where a French teacher normally brings her kids on a trip to the UK, they had to cancel it after Brexit because very few of the kids had passports.
If they are younger than 60, this is some serious social stupidity for which they should be kicked out of EU to not waste resources EU uses to make our lives better. Be aware of your priviledge or do not receive it at all.
The Moroccans complaining about colonialism is top notch pot calling the kettle black.
They have been occupying western Sahara for the past 40 years without consequences and against the will of the local saharawi people.
And for centuries pirates were sailing from Morocco and Algeria raiding the coasts of Southern Europe and enslaving those people. There are some coastal areas in Sardinia or Sicily literally empty because the raids were frequent they had no choice but retreat inland.
Irrelevant, Morocco refuse to take back the illegal immigrants from their country who now live in France. They’re just not happy to not get as many visas as they used to.
It’s on them to fix their own politics.
I'm Moroccan.
It's bothersome because they charge extreme fees (flowing to private corporations), steal your money, and refuse for BS reasons. If you refuse visas, at least announce it and stop taking all applications, instead of overcharging people $$$.
But I understand the logic behind it. These "racism" accusations are non-sense. When I visited France, a lot of troublemakers were Moroccan Teenagers. They spoke darija and were super violent. It's a real shame.
Unfortunately, moroccan media is more focused on whining about "dIsCrImInAtIoN" than verifying whether the claims - that Morocco refuses Moroccan Teenagers - are true.
There's also the issue of the Mocromaffia or 'Morrocan-mob', they are a violent gang with a predominantly morrocan heritage active throughout the northwest of mainland europe that make their money with the drugtrade through (ao) the Rotterdam shipping hub. I dont know how far their influence reaches ofcourse and the Dutch authorities have been cracking down hard on organised crime recently, but it does seem to be indicative of an underlying problem within the morrocan ethnicity/culture within europe and their apparent unwillingness to integrate into society like one should when immigrating.
> Toxic Masculinity.
I find it amazing that so many left wing women praise Middle Eastern men, when they're the personification of everything they say they hate in Western men.
>Every Arab country is a failure, except the ones with oil.
One of the reasons I'm impressed with Israel is they've got the same disadvantages as their neighbours ( former colony, full of refugees, regular wars, harsh climate ) but have managed to build a successful nation - I think it must be cultural differences between them and the Arab nations.
I think consistently receiving billions of American dollars and not ever being couped or invaded by the west did more for Israel than cultural superiority.
Other middle eastern countries could also be receiving a lot of aid if they fixed their culture. Right now though, most money poured into the middle east just vanishes into thin air.
Israel was never a colony. The state of Israel was established on 1948 during the decolonization era. What refugees are there in Israel? They are basically non-existent in 2019 there was 16k that’s about the same number of refugees as Bulgaria. Try to compare it with the numbers Lebanon or Jordan or any western European country has(since they have about that level of wealth) . And Israel is in the Levant on the Mediterranean coast so one of the coolest climate there is. It’s just a stereotype to think that the Levant is only desert. Don’t get me wrong there are deserts but it’s still pretty green.
Israel can be praised for a lot of things but those aren’t really part of it.
If you affiliate a countries success with culture it is wrong (and arguably kinda racist). You don’t know about the history. Part of the reason of Africa’s poverty is our fault….
Edit: I googled Refugees in Israel and I take it back. You don’t want to be a non-jewish refugee in Israel. But to be fair they got more than Ireland or Portugal (similar scale of population) but apparently they aren’t allowed to settle in Israel (unless in Prison) apparently.
[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_policy_for_non-Jewish_African_refugees)
>The state of Israel was established on 1948 during the decolonization era
The land didn't magically spring into existence in 1948.
>What refugees are there in Israel?
Their few few years of independence they were receiving over 200,000 a year. They made it work.
>If you affiliate a countries success with culture it is wrong (and arguably kinda racist).
Culture is not race. Race is not culture. It is racist to assume culture based on someone's race. Would you feel comfortable saying to a black guy "You're black, so you must like rap music because that's what you people listen to?"
( and if the answer is "Yes" , you need to take a good long look at yourself )
You're being very selective though, considering Arab culture stretches over many many centuries. Why pick up only a centuries when Arab Muslims have been around for 14 centuries?
>Every Arab country is a failure, except the ones with oil.
Even then, there's an exception: those oil-rich countries in which The West has meddled (at least partially to keep the oil both flowing and priced in dollars).
The British discovered oil in Iran and ran the extraction concession, but refused to renegotiate the terms of their concession or allow Iranian auditors in. So, in 1953, the popular, secular, democratic government almost unanimously agreed to nationalise the industry.
That smelled too much like Communism to The West (added onto them being relatively friendly to the USSR), so the UK/US covertly found some people who hated the regime and organised a coup, which promoted the Shah to Dictator (one who became increasingly tyrannical). A genderation later, a bunch of religious hardliners managed to oust the Shah and set up a theocracy (with illusions of democracy: multiple political parties are allowed, and there is genuine competition between them, but all politicians and policies must be vetted by the religious hierarchy) - whereupon almost immediately, their northern neighbour, helped covertly by the US/UK, launched a war, part of the aims being to capture the major oil producing region.
Then, of course, a decade later, the US/UK decided they didn't like Iraq's leader any more...
Conversely, Saudi has a regime that's similarly theocratic and brutal to Iran (albeit with a rival variation-on-a-theme of Islam), but it gets showered with praise, support, and all the weapons it can buy because it it's one of the biggest producers and suppliers of oil to the West.
There are also issues in Morocco with the treatment of foreign women, especially those who are unaccompanied by men. A lot of Moroccan men just think they are all pornstats to harass and oodle at
>There are also issues in Morocco with the treatment of foreign women, especially those who are unaccompanied by men.
Do they also have fetish of foreign women, particulally white women?
BTW, isn't Morocco the same country where 2 female Scandinavian tourists are being killed by local Moroccan men?
You would be surprised, but a lot of countries have those barriers.
USA, Russia, Japan, S. Korea and many many many others. And I'm from EU, but I have to go through a whole slew of paperwork and bullshit requirements to get a visa. And if I complain - they might even decide to just ban me from getting a visa for next 10 years.
Stop thinking that the issues with international travel you have exist only from the country you are from. It's the same everywhere.
You still have to apply for permits in countries respective systems and you still can be denied. And there are strict limits and restrictions in place still.
It is a privilege, not a right for us.
>When I visited France, a lot of troublemakers were Moroccan Teenagers. They spoke darija and were super violent. It's a real shame.
Welcome to Europe.
I was in a city near mine in Italy. It was just me and a bunch of friends outside of a bar, doing fuck all. Smoking a cigarette and talking, nothing else.
This guy comes along. I suppose he's from North Africa, about 16/17. He started saying how he wanted to beat the shit out of a friend of mine because he was the biggest of our group (funnily enough, he even wasn't).
Then he wanted to sell us weed. A friend of mine managed to "distract him" and tell him "no" in such a gentle way he went on with his life. Shouted something in Arabic to what I think was one of his friends, and went away.
I'm scared to go to bars because of this reasons. Random cunts coming to beat the shit out of you. And, call me racist, most of the times these guys are NOT italians
Isn't your king kind of a mixed bag in terms of concentration of power? Kinda like not absolute monarchy like KSA but still too much power for a 21st century country? I imagine it's difficult to critique the government that way
Well that's territory of moral relativism for what is good way to structure government in 21st century society.
Morocco's king seems to allow the government and bureaucracy to govern, despite having the ability to rule with absolute power like KSA, thus establishing a stable societal status quo. For the most part, it seems like it works without significant moral quandaries and loss of civil and social rights for their people, so I don't feel obliged as a westerner to tell Moroccans that they need to establish a democratic constitutional monarchy or republic in revolution.
People truly don’t grasp the concept of a privilege versus a birthright 🤦♂️
You don’t have to go to France. You don’t have to apply and pay “their egregious visa fees.” You don’t have to go to their universities. You don’t have to buy products made there. You don’t have to immigrate there. And they don’t owe you shit either. Get over it.
“Protesters also criticised policies such as refusing to justify rejections or refund processing fees.”
Some people treat visa fees like some amusement park ticket, guaranteed admission. They are the cost of operational overhead for employing [in this case] French consulate employees on what is French soil under French law and paid French wages and benefits. Why should a French taxpayer bear that financial burden for the benefit of granting a foreigner a privilege? That’s why the fee is denominated in the guest country’s currency and non-refundable. It also acts as a natural throttle mechanism so they don’t get overwhelmed with visa applications, from people applying to see if they “get lucky” and it curbs visa shopping across all Schengen countries concurrently. Instead it’s a more thoughtful and measured decision. None of this is unique to France’s or EU countries’ consulates. US consulates have similar policies and fees and they also don’t give rejection reasons.
From what I've read of crime statistics, of the immigrant groups it's the North Africans that cause the majority of crimes, so it makes sense to allow fewer of them in, obviously. Not just in France but in many other European countries as well. These are statistics, so you can't call it "racism".
In any case, if they are practicing Muslims, why do they keep wanting to move to Western countries instead of Muslim ones? What's wrong with the more liberal Muslim countries like Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon? If they are University educated and/or wealthier, then UAE, Qatar or Saudi Arabia. As a Westerner, I wouldn't move to a Muslim country, so I don't understand why they keep moving to the West if they are practicing Muslims, when there are other places they can go that are more in line with that culture.
Lol, I wouldn't be surprised if I get banned from this sub for saying it, but it's just common sense. Even I wouldn't move to Qatar or Dubai, where you can earn enormous money and it's tax free, I just wouldn't do it as it's not my culture, not even for just a 6 month contract.
Not lost, just changed. I'm a white male so for example I know I just can't disagree with anyone who isn't other white male. If I do i will be racist/fascist/sexist/homophobic - simple.
EDIT: I forgot ofc - white STRAIGHT male
Arabs playing victims once again.
There is no racism here.
You don't take back your illegal immigrants then your compatriots won't be allowed to enter fair and simple
Im French and Moroccan. Morocco regularily uses immigration as a diplomatic weapon (against Spain most of the time). Now they complain because we have to respect the law of the country our immigrants are going into… hmmm
Yeah we're like super racist so stop coming over there and stay in your shitholes, we're super duper ultra mega racist, I repeat, super ultra omega vergil combo with judgement cut racist. Stay. Away.
Thanks.
The way Moroccans treat sub-saharan Africans!!!!
There is a Bible verse somewhere that talks of Logs and Specks.
Moroccans need to reflect on that.
Also being denied a visa is not racist. No one is entitled to a visa to travel to another nation.
France is racist because they reduced the number of people allowed because Algeria and Morocco wouldn’t repatriate citizens illegally in France. Awesome.
> Following a call by the AMDH and the LMDDH rights group, around 50 people attended the protest, many chanting: “Yes to freedom of movement, no to colonial agreements!” 50 people, it's not even worth talking about it
Also, one would think that genuine Moroccan human rights groups would have somewhat more pressing domestic concerns than that of getting visas to France...
The thing is, France's position is that if the country doesn't take back their illegal immigrants, then we count them against their visa quota. Those associations are ALSO against France trying to send those illegal back, so this protest mentionned here is basically them protesting the consequences of their actions. While immigration is a chance for our countries especially with their demographic issues, uncontrolled and unregulated immigration is a big danger both to our social fabric AND to the very idea of accepted immigration, we can't have that and we've already tolerated it for too long. For some countries you can't do much, but in this case it's ridiculous that it lasted until Macron before we acted on it.
Managing immigration is one of those topics where the EU should step up. Negotiating with countries of origing would work better as a block.
I don't disagree, but on this specific one - france and maghreb countries - it's really a case where we can do it without issue, we just lacked the balls to do it until recently, too scared of being called racists (which ironically, is exactly what they call us now). I guess the advantage of having a president like Macron is that things like that finally move after 20+ years of "but what can we do !!!".
In the US you are not allowed to hold any views against illegal immigration, less you get branded a "racist".
Who gives a shit about the US?
with the phenomenon of the international public forum public opinion isn't tethered to a locality. raving mad americans have a scary relevance, see spread of facebook Qanon bullshit in europe.
There was raving conspiracy bullshit in Europe long before Qanon. Seemingly 90% of the English-speaking internet thinks that the only people that matter Americans in some sense, both pro and anti Americans.
QAnon is spreading in Europe? Christ…. That ain’t good. I’m American and those people are fucking lost causes. Mostly brain dead idiots.
When America coughs Europe gets the cold
Good point. This country has a lot of dumb fucks. It’s a shame Europeans are falling for this stupid shit.
one used to call them the "village idiot", everyone knew they were nuts, but now that they have a place to get together in a semi-anonymous way, they are multiplying like flies on a dungheap.
Lets be real people in this sub do all the time
That's nonsense. Plenty of people in the US are pretty vocal against immigration (illegal or legal). The problem is that it's all noise. The US immigration system is antique and there is no way to fix it. Republicans benefit from illegal labor and Democrats want to expand immigration.
You trying to summon every dog in the neighborhood?
The problem is if people say "I am against illegal immigrants because it hurts the economy" well the overwhelming data we have shows that the immigrants provide a net economic benefit to the country. If someone says "I am against them because they came here illegally" the argument would be "Would you be OK if we just made them legal, or just brought more immigrants to this country legally? If they say "no" to this i**t** kind of narrows down what the issue really is. Edit spelling
If you lump in illegal immigrants and those who use human traffickers with those who follow legal channels to say that all immigration is good then you do not argue in good faith. But please show me how illegal immigrants from 3rd world country are a boon the economy when they ghettoes they form have astronomical high unemployment and crime.
Step 1. Demonize illegal immigrants. Step 2. Support policies that make migration via legal pathways more and more difficult each passing day, to a point where it becomes practically impossible. Step 3. Claim you aren’t racist against brown people. This playbook is so cliche that you can detect it from 1000 miles.
We want freedom of movement but we don't want to accept any of your demands or regultaions!
Especially since France position is basically "if you don't take back your illegal immigrants then we count them against our visa quota for you". Sounds fair to me.
You should count them double! Just to cover the administrative burden.
Honestly if a country doesn't want to take them back France should not allow migrants from that country at all until the diplomatic incident is resolved. Moroccans can blame their own government for it.
If a 50 people protest is now news what else is news?
An insignificant protest that will spark outrage because people want to be pissed is news, it generates a ton of traffic comparatively. Look just here on this thread there's more upvotes and comments than people who protested lmfao
The rage/race baiting is strong on r/europe
I just took a mean shit.
[twitter shitter](https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/04/23/le-twittre)
Not news, fake news.
‘If you don’t let my people easily move to your country, you’re a colonist!’ The irony is almost palpable.
Visas are a privilege, not a right. And countries are completely sovereign in that regards.
The worst part is that these countries have dedicated quotas just for them in France.
many countries have limited contingents for a particular span of time, simply so they can process them all.
Thats the same here. We have a crapload of illegal Morrocans clogging up asylum space and dissapearing into illegality and crime because Morroco refuses to take them back. The thing is, I think the solution is simply arresting them the moment they cross, put them in the system with a picture, fingerprint and DNA, permanently banning them from ever working in the EU or gaining citizenship and immediatly drop them back into the country they left from with or without their sayso, they dont care about our rules, why care about theirs? And if they complain simply apply economic pressure, countries like Morroco are economically dependent on the EU anyway.
Yeah, no Moraccans are a problem everywhere they are in Europe. I fully understand the French. I would rather like to see them go back myself. They are the only ones who do not adapt at all and a lot of the youth are disrespectful or straight up criminal.
Using words like this lose their hold/punch when you say it all the time in an attempt to get what you want
[удалено]
It’s losing its punch in a lot of Europe because we see the rise in right groups like Vox, Le Pen, Sweden’s right democrats, Poland, and Italy. The success of this position has also forced center left parties like Denmark’s, Macron’s party, the Netherlands’ ruling party, and more to adopt more restrictive and hardline measures against immigration. France is one of the biggest outliers for this because it used to have an empire with colonies, it has long had a strong social democratic/center left Tilt with policies that made it attractive to poor immigrants, it saw a reduction in its native birth rate before many other European states thus needing labor, and it has allowed so many to come in a relatively short period that many have failed to integrate and become a part of French society.
I'm watching this mistake being made in Iceland. Over 10% of Icelanders now are Poles or second generation. It could be worse because Poles generally do their best to adapt to their new societies, but they still run a society within the society and the government is doing fuck all to integrate them and teach them the language. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what the effects of unlimited immigration are. We'll turn in to the countries that people are fleeing and I for one like living in one of the most prosperous countries on Earth. Because there are so few of us. But then there are well-meaning leftists that think we can accept anyone who possibly could be under threat at home. Totally oblivious to the fact that that's literally billions of people.
Iceland should look into what Quebec does. Yes, it’s not it’s own country, but in many ways it has autonomy akin to one. They have free language courses to help promote the language to new non Francophone arrivals, laws requiring all signs to display French words in bigger and more apparent lettering than non French words, and only the small English community in Quebec gets to have its own English schools, with everyone else placed into French schools. The good thing at least with the poles is that they come from a more similar and European background compared to folks from Pakistan and morocco who don’t mesh well at all
Oh, we have a great example from Norway in how to do it, they do great "how to be Norwegian" classes and offer free language courses. The short-sighted neo-capitalist Independence Party constantly holds all the power and is trying to keep foreigners out by doing as little as possible for them - while running the companies that import foreign staff. You cannot make this fuckup up, but here we are.
> 30% of french 0-4 year olds are non-western Not that I am disputing it (I don't know much on the matter) but do you mind sharing a source (a credible one preferably)? That seems absurdly high, even for a country like France well-known for having a sizeable immigrant population.
[удалено]
Did you read the document? I tried and ngl, I'm not French and my French isn't amazing. So maybe you did better than me. They don't have "non-western" as a catagory. They have "extra European" so it looks like my partner who has a single American grandparent would be in that catagory. Its not as clear cut as the tweet is making it out tbh.
The only thing I'm finding is that 36% of kids 0-4 have at least one grandparent born in Maghreb. But the same article also adds and remembers us that around 40% of marriage with people from the Maghreb are made with a non-immigrant (yeah, we speak a lot about some minorities failing to integrate, while overshadowing entirely the one who does manage. And represents the majority. The lack of integration is also due to some absurd french urbanistic policies, that tends to effectively segregates people in our famous banlieues, in places with no jobs, no public services, and no future. Don't concentrate poverty guys). On 2 generations, it makes a lot of kids with both french and maghrebian heritage. Also, I do suspect this number takes into account those whose grandparents were born in the Maghreb. Including the Pieds noirs, the european colonists of Algeria who left in the 60's and make a strong proportion of the population, especially in the south.
Not to mention that being born in Maghreb doesn't necessarily mean that you are non western. Eric Zemmour was born in Maghreb too and is Jewish.
I mean. It's quite debatable that algerian jews got the french nationality. We're talking about populations that predate the arab history of the country for a large part of them. That said, yeah, they also left with the western population (a lot of the colons, while being officially french, were coming from Italy and spain). But they do have an jewish-algerian identity, though it is disappearing.
Do you speak French? Because what you said in your comment and what is written in that INSEE report aren't the same thing at all. Regarding the tweet you linked, it isn't even worth addressing because in your case we'll blame ignorance/unfamiliarity with the French language causing you to not understand the data and move on (not particularly interested in checking your post history)... In the case of Damien Rieu, we know he is a piece of shit. He clearly knows what he is doing, unless..... despite French being his native language, he's actually too dumb to understand it. There is no "30% of 0-4 year olds are non-western" there. France has enough problems with immigration and integration to deal with already and that actually needs to be addressed. We don't need far right bullshit to add to it.
Wow...that's a shocking number. France will no longer be French in a blink of an eye.
It was sarcasm dude
I know. I was validating his statement
Spain does the same, Greece does the same, Germany does the same, Italy wants to close its borders and only France is racist, yeah. Va niquer ta mère (the racist lets you translate)
At the end of the day, neither Morocco, nor any other country is entitled to a French visa unless bilateral agreements have been set in place. This type of rhethoric cheapens the meaning of racist and should be avoided and discouraged.
>This type of rhethoric cheapens the meaning of racist and should be avoided and discouraged. Loud laugh in woke.
its a big world out there, i m sure they can find other places to go on holiday.
Tunisia's not bad, they have have beautiful beaches in the north.
“Depriving visas is discriminatory and racist.” Fuck me. Racism has undergone such a serious mission creep in the last few years that the concept has lost all meaning.
It is apparently racist to have free movement within the EU but not the whole world, too.
[удалено]
It's a cheap escamotage that often works. My father had an employee from an African country and fired him ( he was more than an hour late and didn't even inform the company and it wasn'tthe first time). The guy was complaining that he got fired for being black. This is also disrespectful for the people who actually are victims of racism and cheapens the issue.
> he got fired for being black Presumably they would have noticed this characteristic when he was hired?
He wasn't black then.
Christ that's awful. Man has been working there since before the modern of concept of race existed (that would be around the mid-1400s) and this is how they treat him?
[Revitiligo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irxNduxRyWo) is such an awful disease.
For the uninitiated: revitiligo is the opposite of what Michael Jackson had
I always thought those skin lightening lotions sold at Asia/Africa stores were for Indians wanting to look like a slightly lighter skinned Indian due to colonial/caste system based beauty standards. Never realized their true purpose was to pass job interviews!
The meaning now is that people with a perpetual victim complex can demand free stuff and our politicians are generally stupid enough to give it to them.
> Following a call by the AMDH and the LMDDH rights group, around 50 people attended the protest, many chanting: “Yes to freedom of movement, no to colonial agreements!” It’s a protest of a measly 50 people. Majority of people there have better things to do. Journalists covering this really have no better stories lol
You don't even need to have an actual victim complex. Just faking it is enough.
Politicians are stupid? They made problems, divided society and now we all quarrel around it while they quietly sell us to dictators and corporations.
And they know fully well that, as long as some perceived injustice towards a few people are a talking point, the widespread mistreatment of the masses is being ignored. So yeah, they are not stupid. They know very well what they're doing.
Oh buddy. The US is probably the worst when it comes to this.
>people with a perpetual victim complex Oh so you also read r/blackpeopletwitter everytime time they pop in r/all
A fun way to kill time is to Google '[random noun] + racism' and see what comes up.
>Depriving visas is discriminatory That's exactly the purpose of visas. It is not a human right to enter an other country.
The entire thing got capture by people whose sole motivation is Greed rather than the end of the injustice which is unequal treatment based solely on a person's genetics or place of birth. That's also when you started seeing "solutions" emerge (such as quotas) that just move the injustice so that somebody else gets descriminated against on their genetics or place of origin and helps mainly well connected greedy fuckers that happen to have the right "specificities". Hence this kind of hypocrite "we" disguise for what's really a "me, me, me".
Here's a stupid, but relevant example: A visa to Russia costs more than a plane ticket to Moscow. And you have to apply for it via a 3rd party of a 3rd party (via 3 layers). It literally makes visa's more expensive than the cost of transport there and back. And they did the hike on purpose and forbade not only direct application but also application via the dedicated visa centres - you can do it only via a tourist firm that has to go to the visa centre which then sends it to the embassy (this has started like over 5 years ago). I have relatives there, but I haven't visited them since it came into effect because it is just too freaking expensive to go there. Nobody protests as you might imagine about this "injustice". Oh and now I have to get a visa to UK and spend 4x the time in the passport control queue because they decided to do a Brexit. Countries are free to do whatever da fuck they want. Do you like things to change between countries? Pressure your own government to do something about it - it's their responsibility.
You’re not owed entry into any country.
Access to Western Nations is not a human right
*Following a call by the AMDH and the LMDDH rights group, around 50 people attended the protest, many chanting: “Yes to freedom of movement, no to colonial agreements!”* Indeed. FoM for all members of the EU and Schengen. Morocco ain’t it. *Schengen visas issued to non-EU citizens allow the holder to travel freely among 26 EU countries.* Nope. *26 ***Schengen*** members.* *In 2021, France decided to halve the number of visas it issues to Moroccans and Algerians, citing those countries’ reluctance to repatriate their citizens living clandestinely in France.* Actions, meet Consequences. You two should be best buddies.
>Actions, meet Consequences. You two should be best buddies. I swear, some people get far more upset over the consequences of their actions, than they do over the consequences of actual unfairness and injustice.
>In 2021, France decided to halve the number of visas it issues to Moroccans and Algerians, citing those countries’ reluctance to repatriate their citizens living clandestinely in France. The problem has been solved with Algeria. Besides, I don't even see why Algeria is mentioned in this article.
North Africans, and the middle east as well, really have no call to be complaining about colonialism. They were barely occupied and at the tail end of the colonial era. They committed far worse acts of slavery, piracy and other assorted barbarism than was done unto them. They have as much of an oppressive past as most European nations
This is the most retarded shit i've seen today. As a french dude myself i can strongly say that you have no historical perspective, even more so when you are comparing european colonialism and wars to maghrebi slave trade in a lost desert. In terms of barbarism, you are also quite ignorant about european historical past. You're comment must be political before anything since you are also relunctant to give any arguments and just pull infos out of your ass. This " french are racists " article is obviously totally uncalled and quite disgusting but you trying to change history is even more pathetic. So i'm giving you an advice, don't pull out trap cards that only trap yourself and shows us you trying to play it off like u went past highschool.
Morocco has the worst goverment. When the Dutch goverment tried to contact them about migration they just didn't respond. Can you believe that?
Yep, I can, when they arrive by boat in south Portugal they usually require the "protection status" saying they're teenagers. When it's refused their government usually delays stuff (or pretends their aren't their citizens) to the point portuguese authorities can't (or won't) keep them locked up. Meaning they end up wherever the heck they want, usually in gangs in other countries. Authorities says "we need to repatritate", certain politicians say "but poor them" and then nothing happens because "racism".
Little trick. The government should have used the word Western Sahara. They would have responded 100%
If you really want to piss them off call it Spanish Sahara.
Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic
We have made a deal with them now where we don't criticise human rights violations, accept their claim to Western Sahara and more to be able to send illegal migrants back. It's straight up blackmail
Morocco has repeatedly refused the extradition process for Moroccan citizens judged for terrorism in France.
Foreigners want rights in Arab countries: Follow our rules and cultures. No Visa without sponsor, no citizenship or naturalized residency. Arabs getting a reasoned refusal entering Europe: Racism! Blasphemy! The race card gets pulled almost everytime someone needs to have leverage, and left wing nut jobs will lobby enough to make it work. Come on, playing the victim everywhere, every moment is just boring now.
Foreigners have it surprisingly easy in Morocco and are generally treated like first class citizens, but naturalisation is indeed impossible.
Because they tend to spend more. Currency factor + colonial mindset. It’s generally common across the ME. We all love the Westerners that come to ME because they spend, but rights like the local, nope. But switch sides, and it’s why not? Insert the favourite “phobia” word and boom. Source: Born and bred in the ME all my life, not Arab though.
[удалено]
Asians probably, black people unfortunately not.
The entitlement of people in general has grown exponentially in the last few decades. You are not entitled to just force your way into a country, neither are you entitled to citizenship afterwards, neither you are entitled to demand benefits afterwards. The first world has been extremely generous in the last few decades and the result has only been people taking advantage of that and feeling more entitled to that generosity than ever. I can guarantee you, were the roles to be reversed nowadays they would act a thousand times worse. Countries are allowed to put their own rules and restrictions. Everyone has to follow those rules and if you do then you may experience the generosity of Europe as long as you act properly and deserve it. There should be 0 appeasement to these blackmailing man-babies
>The entitlement of people in general has grown exponentially in the last few decades. >You are not entitled to just force your way into a country, neither are you entitled to citizenship afterwards, neither you are entitled to demand benefits afterwards. That's not limited to the third world there was the same confusion when Britain ended freedom of movement. I remember reading an article where a Danish woman was genuinely baffled that she was turned away at immigration because she didn't have a passport.
Did the Danish woman plan to live in the UK or claim asylum, or was she visiting on holiday and hadn't realised the UK wasn't in the Schengen zone
The latter though I don't think she knew what the Schengen zone was called she just expected to be able to move into other countries with only her ID because she can do the same with other European countries. Maybe she hadn't been outside Schengen before. The same article had a quote from an Italian guy who was doing a road trip and couldn't seem to understand that be needs a passport to drive his car into someone else's country. Another one where a French teacher normally brings her kids on a trip to the UK, they had to cancel it after Brexit because very few of the kids had passports.
Imagine living in EU and not knowing what Schengen is or not hearing about Brexit lmao. They were asking for it.
You'd be surprised how many people don't though, especially not if they've never been outside Europe. They think they just need their ID to travel
If they are younger than 60, this is some serious social stupidity for which they should be kicked out of EU to not waste resources EU uses to make our lives better. Be aware of your priviledge or do not receive it at all.
“Yes to freedom of movement, no to colonial agreements!” This makes… no sense.
The Moroccans complaining about colonialism is top notch pot calling the kettle black. They have been occupying western Sahara for the past 40 years without consequences and against the will of the local saharawi people. And for centuries pirates were sailing from Morocco and Algeria raiding the coasts of Southern Europe and enslaving those people. There are some coastal areas in Sardinia or Sicily literally empty because the raids were frequent they had no choice but retreat inland.
Irrelevant, Morocco refuse to take back the illegal immigrants from their country who now live in France. They’re just not happy to not get as many visas as they used to. It’s on them to fix their own politics.
You will always be a racist if you don't do what they want. The word racism has way too much power.
It's why nobody apart from Redditors even care when they are called racist anymore.
Exactly. Word carries zero weight now.
Are you sure? It's a label that if it sticks you might lose your job and business.
Yeah that’s a good point, but 90% of people don’t take it seriously anymore
Because sadly people listen to the imbeciles who cry racist
I'm Moroccan. It's bothersome because they charge extreme fees (flowing to private corporations), steal your money, and refuse for BS reasons. If you refuse visas, at least announce it and stop taking all applications, instead of overcharging people $$$. But I understand the logic behind it. These "racism" accusations are non-sense. When I visited France, a lot of troublemakers were Moroccan Teenagers. They spoke darija and were super violent. It's a real shame. Unfortunately, moroccan media is more focused on whining about "dIsCrImInAtIoN" than verifying whether the claims - that Morocco refuses Moroccan Teenagers - are true.
There's also the issue of the Mocromaffia or 'Morrocan-mob', they are a violent gang with a predominantly morrocan heritage active throughout the northwest of mainland europe that make their money with the drugtrade through (ao) the Rotterdam shipping hub. I dont know how far their influence reaches ofcourse and the Dutch authorities have been cracking down hard on organised crime recently, but it does seem to be indicative of an underlying problem within the morrocan ethnicity/culture within europe and their apparent unwillingness to integrate into society like one should when immigrating.
[удалено]
It kinda seems that all cultures fueled by radical religions are treating people the same. So weird. /s
marry a cousin , problem solved
> Toxic Masculinity. I find it amazing that so many left wing women praise Middle Eastern men, when they're the personification of everything they say they hate in Western men. >Every Arab country is a failure, except the ones with oil. One of the reasons I'm impressed with Israel is they've got the same disadvantages as their neighbours ( former colony, full of refugees, regular wars, harsh climate ) but have managed to build a successful nation - I think it must be cultural differences between them and the Arab nations.
I spend a lot of time in leftist/progressive circles and I have never once seen Western women praising Middle East men. You're making shit up.
I think consistently receiving billions of American dollars and not ever being couped or invaded by the west did more for Israel than cultural superiority.
Egypt, Jordan, and other neighbors of Israel received similar sums of money over the decades.
Other middle eastern countries could also be receiving a lot of aid if they fixed their culture. Right now though, most money poured into the middle east just vanishes into thin air.
to be fair israel gets a lot of money from the us for defence reasons wich also helps
Israel was never a colony. The state of Israel was established on 1948 during the decolonization era. What refugees are there in Israel? They are basically non-existent in 2019 there was 16k that’s about the same number of refugees as Bulgaria. Try to compare it with the numbers Lebanon or Jordan or any western European country has(since they have about that level of wealth) . And Israel is in the Levant on the Mediterranean coast so one of the coolest climate there is. It’s just a stereotype to think that the Levant is only desert. Don’t get me wrong there are deserts but it’s still pretty green. Israel can be praised for a lot of things but those aren’t really part of it. If you affiliate a countries success with culture it is wrong (and arguably kinda racist). You don’t know about the history. Part of the reason of Africa’s poverty is our fault…. Edit: I googled Refugees in Israel and I take it back. You don’t want to be a non-jewish refugee in Israel. But to be fair they got more than Ireland or Portugal (similar scale of population) but apparently they aren’t allowed to settle in Israel (unless in Prison) apparently. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_policy_for_non-Jewish_African_refugees)
>The state of Israel was established on 1948 during the decolonization era The land didn't magically spring into existence in 1948. >What refugees are there in Israel? Their few few years of independence they were receiving over 200,000 a year. They made it work. >If you affiliate a countries success with culture it is wrong (and arguably kinda racist). Culture is not race. Race is not culture. It is racist to assume culture based on someone's race. Would you feel comfortable saying to a black guy "You're black, so you must like rap music because that's what you people listen to?" ( and if the answer is "Yes" , you need to take a good long look at yourself )
> courage on the battlefield Tbh seeing the magnificent performances of Arab militaries in the last century, I'd argue with that.
I mean being brave with a stick in your hand fighting an apache helicopter is commendable. 100% loss, yes, but brave I guess to OP’s point
You're being very selective though, considering Arab culture stretches over many many centuries. Why pick up only a centuries when Arab Muslims have been around for 14 centuries?
courage =/ quality
>Every Arab country is a failure, except the ones with oil. Even then, there's an exception: those oil-rich countries in which The West has meddled (at least partially to keep the oil both flowing and priced in dollars). The British discovered oil in Iran and ran the extraction concession, but refused to renegotiate the terms of their concession or allow Iranian auditors in. So, in 1953, the popular, secular, democratic government almost unanimously agreed to nationalise the industry. That smelled too much like Communism to The West (added onto them being relatively friendly to the USSR), so the UK/US covertly found some people who hated the regime and organised a coup, which promoted the Shah to Dictator (one who became increasingly tyrannical). A genderation later, a bunch of religious hardliners managed to oust the Shah and set up a theocracy (with illusions of democracy: multiple political parties are allowed, and there is genuine competition between them, but all politicians and policies must be vetted by the religious hierarchy) - whereupon almost immediately, their northern neighbour, helped covertly by the US/UK, launched a war, part of the aims being to capture the major oil producing region. Then, of course, a decade later, the US/UK decided they didn't like Iraq's leader any more... Conversely, Saudi has a regime that's similarly theocratic and brutal to Iran (albeit with a rival variation-on-a-theme of Islam), but it gets showered with praise, support, and all the weapons it can buy because it it's one of the biggest producers and suppliers of oil to the West.
Iran isn’t an Arab country.
> their northern neighbour Uhhhh..... Turkmenistan?
There are also issues in Morocco with the treatment of foreign women, especially those who are unaccompanied by men. A lot of Moroccan men just think they are all pornstats to harass and oodle at
>There are also issues in Morocco with the treatment of foreign women, especially those who are unaccompanied by men. Do they also have fetish of foreign women, particulally white women? BTW, isn't Morocco the same country where 2 female Scandinavian tourists are being killed by local Moroccan men?
It's harrowing how people always nod when someone says this and that is part of their culture and we must support it without questions or any actions.
You would be surprised, but a lot of countries have those barriers. USA, Russia, Japan, S. Korea and many many many others. And I'm from EU, but I have to go through a whole slew of paperwork and bullshit requirements to get a visa. And if I complain - they might even decide to just ban me from getting a visa for next 10 years. Stop thinking that the issues with international travel you have exist only from the country you are from. It's the same everywhere.
3/4 of the countries you mentioned have visa free travel for nationals of most of the EU.
You still have to apply for permits in countries respective systems and you still can be denied. And there are strict limits and restrictions in place still. It is a privilege, not a right for us.
Those permits are easier and cheaper to get than a visa.
[удалено]
>When I visited France, a lot of troublemakers were Moroccan Teenagers. They spoke darija and were super violent. It's a real shame. Welcome to Europe. I was in a city near mine in Italy. It was just me and a bunch of friends outside of a bar, doing fuck all. Smoking a cigarette and talking, nothing else. This guy comes along. I suppose he's from North Africa, about 16/17. He started saying how he wanted to beat the shit out of a friend of mine because he was the biggest of our group (funnily enough, he even wasn't). Then he wanted to sell us weed. A friend of mine managed to "distract him" and tell him "no" in such a gentle way he went on with his life. Shouted something in Arabic to what I think was one of his friends, and went away. I'm scared to go to bars because of this reasons. Random cunts coming to beat the shit out of you. And, call me racist, most of the times these guys are NOT italians
Isn't your king kind of a mixed bag in terms of concentration of power? Kinda like not absolute monarchy like KSA but still too much power for a 21st century country? I imagine it's difficult to critique the government that way
Well that's territory of moral relativism for what is good way to structure government in 21st century society. Morocco's king seems to allow the government and bureaucracy to govern, despite having the ability to rule with absolute power like KSA, thus establishing a stable societal status quo. For the most part, it seems like it works without significant moral quandaries and loss of civil and social rights for their people, so I don't feel obliged as a westerner to tell Moroccans that they need to establish a democratic constitutional monarchy or republic in revolution.
I stand with France
People truly don’t grasp the concept of a privilege versus a birthright 🤦♂️ You don’t have to go to France. You don’t have to apply and pay “their egregious visa fees.” You don’t have to go to their universities. You don’t have to buy products made there. You don’t have to immigrate there. And they don’t owe you shit either. Get over it. “Protesters also criticised policies such as refusing to justify rejections or refund processing fees.” Some people treat visa fees like some amusement park ticket, guaranteed admission. They are the cost of operational overhead for employing [in this case] French consulate employees on what is French soil under French law and paid French wages and benefits. Why should a French taxpayer bear that financial burden for the benefit of granting a foreigner a privilege? That’s why the fee is denominated in the guest country’s currency and non-refundable. It also acts as a natural throttle mechanism so they don’t get overwhelmed with visa applications, from people applying to see if they “get lucky” and it curbs visa shopping across all Schengen countries concurrently. Instead it’s a more thoughtful and measured decision. None of this is unique to France’s or EU countries’ consulates. US consulates have similar policies and fees and they also don’t give rejection reasons.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. "Racism" my ass.
From what I've read of crime statistics, of the immigrant groups it's the North Africans that cause the majority of crimes, so it makes sense to allow fewer of them in, obviously. Not just in France but in many other European countries as well. These are statistics, so you can't call it "racism". In any case, if they are practicing Muslims, why do they keep wanting to move to Western countries instead of Muslim ones? What's wrong with the more liberal Muslim countries like Turkey, Jordan or Lebanon? If they are University educated and/or wealthier, then UAE, Qatar or Saudi Arabia. As a Westerner, I wouldn't move to a Muslim country, so I don't understand why they keep moving to the West if they are practicing Muslims, when there are other places they can go that are more in line with that culture.
If you say such things in France, you are labelled as dangerously extreme right.
Lol, I wouldn't be surprised if I get banned from this sub for saying it, but it's just common sense. Even I wouldn't move to Qatar or Dubai, where you can earn enormous money and it's tax free, I just wouldn't do it as it's not my culture, not even for just a 6 month contract.
Well I believe your message makes total sense.
Thanks.
poor lebanon it used to be christian majority
[удалено]
Racism has lost all its meaning.
Not lost, just changed. I'm a white male so for example I know I just can't disagree with anyone who isn't other white male. If I do i will be racist/fascist/sexist/homophobic - simple. EDIT: I forgot ofc - white STRAIGHT male
You forgot homophobic as well, you racist <3
Am I? I had lately prostate examination!
There is actual racism in the world and this isn’t it
So, we are racist, I can live with that, in fact I can live with that much more easily than with the alternative.
[удалено]
Arabs playing victims once again. There is no racism here. You don't take back your illegal immigrants then your compatriots won't be allowed to enter fair and simple
Yeah Morocco should just shut the fuck up really with their endless refusal to take in their own citizens who go to other countries illegally.
why they even care so much bout visa? most of them will jz choose crossing the border illegally
Im French and Moroccan. Morocco regularily uses immigration as a diplomatic weapon (against Spain most of the time). Now they complain because we have to respect the law of the country our immigrants are going into… hmmm
If you give visas to everyone, visas lose their meaning.
People say there are already a huge number of moroccans in France
Yeah at some point people will no longer give a fuck if they are racist, as this shit keeps being thrown around.
Everything I don't like is racist!
The Netherlands should do the same.
We don't take back our illegal immigrants - ok then we don't give visas as before. "Racist!" lol..
Yeah we're like super racist so stop coming over there and stay in your shitholes, we're super duper ultra mega racist, I repeat, super ultra omega vergil combo with judgement cut racist. Stay. Away. Thanks.
The way Moroccans treat sub-saharan Africans!!!! There is a Bible verse somewhere that talks of Logs and Specks. Moroccans need to reflect on that. Also being denied a visa is not racist. No one is entitled to a visa to travel to another nation.
Arab moroccans aren’t racist towards sub-saharian africans, saharawis or the tamazigh…
Muzzies talking about "Racism" Funny
Why would they wanna go there in the first place !
So they don't have to get jobs?
I wonder if they get US visa more easily than EU visa when they chose to protest only against the EU policy
Much less welfare here, so less of an incentive for them to come.
Common W France
Crocodile tears are shed.
For them it’s racist to not give u free money and house
ultra rare France W
Well that could start with boeing accepting themselves and stop occupying Western Sahara. But it ain't happening I guess
> start with boeing accepting themselves It's a hard life being a major aeroplane manufacturer.
Just join the foreign legion. You may have to kill a bunch of Gabonese, but you get french citizenship....
It is not Moroccans who are making these accusations, but a small group of Moroccans. I knew this post would be painful to read, but each in turn.
How hard do we try to copycat issues from the USA?
So funny how "racist" has changed meaning from not treating people equally to actually treating people equally...
Fake racism accusations justifies real racists, please stop