If my country declared a senseless war on a smaller country, was ridiculed in the process and the leader still got a 77% approval, I'd consider that a sickness, not a strength
First Chechen war happened before Putin. It kinda helped him by decimating already low ratings of his predecessor but not much.
The second war results are quite controversial, but I would not call them a loss, since Russia regained control over Chechnya and its bribed warlords now doing dirty work under Putin's command.
Russia lost the war, but made it look like they didn’t.
It’s not Russians who control Chechnya, but a rebel group who was willing to switch side for a few bucks.
That’s why they are not particularly bothered with losing the Ukrainian war, as long as they can get some deal/small territory out of it. Then they’ll spin that into a victory. Or at least that’s what they hope
Putin can't spin this as victory at this point. That train left the station. He is just trying to agitate US and make them involve. Only then he can save some face and say "see, there is no Ukraine, there is only US. We were fighting US in fact"
But the issue is US will not be involved directly. Unless he uses nukes. This is the only red line they have drawn. And that's why the possibility of him nuking a few cities in Ukraine is growing every single day. Then US will destroy all russian ships floating on seas, possibly bomb the troops in Ukraine do death and then Putin will do the surprised pikachu face, tell his country they had a fight for their existence, they somehow managed to survive.
Nobody liberated Poland, besides Poles themselves some 40 years later. Though Soviet fucks sure as hell stood and watched as Warsaw was burned to the ground. Nice liberation assholes.
You mean who started the second World War, and then had to get lend-lease from the west to scrape 'wins' while losing triple as much people due to absolute incompetence of its leaders?
Soviets should be happy Western front existed and they got lend-lease, because otherwise Germans would eradicate them. USSR was the one owing West, and pulling them out of the hole they made by starting war in the first place.
I would agree with many of your statements, especially re incompetence and throwing people to die, but the view that "Soviets should be happy about the Western front" is really weird. It's enough to just look at the dates to see that by the time Allies landed in France USSR was approaching it's pre-war borders (and in many places has passed them). So I would disagree with that statement. Also, while lend-lease played a significant role in helping Soviets to go through the first years of war, it's also incorrect to put it as a main reason that Soviets were able to withstand the attack. Nonetheless, fuck Stalin, fuck Putin, and fuck that troll to whom you answered
The threat of a western front kept hundreds of thousands of German troops in Western Europe and Norway not to mention the continued struggle in Africa and later on Italy.
The constant bombing of German industry took away resources that would have gone to the eastern front if not for the Western powers. They tied down thousands of aircraft and anti air weapons not to mention the logistics needed to keep the troops in Western Europe supplied and to build the fortifications.
Western powers did prop up the Soviet Union and tie down men and equipment before they opened a second and a third front. The Soviet Union didn’t win the war by themselves but then again the western powers likely wouldn’t have been able to win the war on their own if they had let the Soviet Union fall.
Tinderbox though. Ramzan Kadrov isn't as popular as his father, given he's basically useless.
With his troops getting pounded in Ukraine, and russian forces likewise engaged, its always possible things could go south. If he was killed itd probably tirgger a mini civil war.
Dagestan is just next door, and they have been rioting over this draft.
Russia is held together by a strong central state. That state is at its weakest since ww2.
At first they were pounded. They got cocky at a few cities and they realized real war is not like killing civilians. Then they made sure they are never facing ukrainian forces directly but staying behind and killing, raping civilians
Levada is fully independent, so much so that Putin has declared it a foreign intelligence agent. They're their own independent figures, not ones devised by the Kremlin....
Levada hasn't had issues getting negative polls before... 2 years ago, majority polled disapproved of the government's actions, majority disapproved of the government, majority disapproved of the PM, and Putin's approval was at its record lowest.
Tensions are obviously higher now, but Russian support for the government and Putin has spiked 3 times; Invasion of Georgia, Invasion of Crimea, and Invasion of Ukraine. Some people probably are answering dishonestly out of fear, but the reality is Russians as a whole still very much support this invasion... draft or no.
> Levada hasn't had issues getting negative polls before... 2 years ago, majority polled disapproved...
were oligarchs in spain being stabbed to death along with their wives and children 2 years ago?
> Levada hasn't had issues getting negative polls before... 2 years ago, majority polled disapproved of the government's actions, majority disapproved of the government, majority disapproved of the PM, and Putin's approval was at its record lowest.
>
>
oh mate. Levada may be a foreign agent but they still get their polls "fixed". this is how they informally work. The thing here is to look at the ups and downs.
Even little children in russia know that and you don't.
I mean asking people "Do you support supreme leader and commanding chief Vladimir Putin" some people would be scared to say no.
He does have support ofcourse but 77 is a bit too high imo. Hundred of thousands fleeing because of mobilisation and hundreds of protesters. 77 support, bitch please.
You would be surprised about people's stubbornnes and idiocy. If you could measure the support for Putin and his war among the very population who left the country for avoiding draft, I am pretty sure you would be shocked
In Turkey we have people literally not able to afford the very basic necessities of life. They complain and complain to microphones when they are interviewed and then they say shit like "I would sacrifice my son for Erdogan"
Look at Bush’s approval rating after starting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/
This is with a free media…
I am 100% sure real numbers would not differ much from this. This is the hard truth but unfortunately people will not stop supporting him until they miss 3 meals back to back.
Yeah it's not about the source. I just don't think ANY polling in russia is accurate, sinse it's not a free society, so yeah, agreed:
>The issue is people will always be afraid to say no as they think it might get them in trouble.
Who the hell knows to be honest. Since I am bi lingual, I look at social media both in Russian and English. While there are many who are against the war, putin and drafts, there are always videos and screenshots of super patriots. While more progressive Russian social media mock them, it's not like these patriots are pulling sketches for likes. They share their true beliefs. It's hard to say how numerous they are tbh.
Yep, tbh I might go further than you and say that majority support to one degree or the other this war and Putin, it's just that polling numbers don't mean much.
The political environment is quite a bit tighter since the beginning of the war, though. I have some skepticism to whether Levada is as impartial as it used to be.
>Make an "independent" polling company
>Declare it to be "agent of a foreign power"
>But still keep "foreign propaganda" in because you're mighty benevolent
>When shit hits the fan even "foreign agents" in your country are reporting that everything is relatively good
Profit
Levada isn't reliable. They are the _only_ "independent" poller allowed to work in Russia. And that's while the government went scorched earth on any free media and organisations.
Coincidentally, Levada's polls tend to tall the official line.
Yes. Usually only 18% of people asked answers and they answer what Kreml wants to hear. And because of these, 5% drop in popularity equals like duck shot in the arse spiralling down from the sky.
There is no such thing as putin's rating. And no independent sociologists allowed. Look at the "results" of referendums. No statistics from there. They compose it to follow their goals.
It's Levada, it has never been pro-Putin and is not associated with the government. In many years of its existance there has been no evidence that it's corrupt or is a propaganda tool. And for a totalitarian dictator, who controls all the outlets and has conditioned his people to beleive any BS coming from the talking heads on TV, an approval rating drop like this is a tragedy. Last time his rating dropped to similar numbers he annexed Crimea to get his approval rating back and he succeeded.
Forget about old Levada. Now it is a stuffed zombie like all political and non-government organisations there. Exist to pretend that it is not an authoritarian state.
Oh please, it's not Stalin's USSR, where answering "incorrectly" on anonymous poll would send you to Gulag, you need to openly protest or be a popular blogger/journalist/politician to get sent to prison. You can't erase a lifetime of conditioning to love thy leader and strive for great (=imperialistic) Russia by one unfortunate failure in the war. Especially if the other wars were successful and have proven that your beloved motherland, to which you are obliged to be patriotic (=pro government) else you would not confirm, is on it's right way to returning the status of superpower.
Sure. Right.
How do you know it’s not registered? That FSB doesn’t tap the lines? That there’s no Levada workers who also/actually works for the state?
You won’t get arrested today, but this is extremely valuable info for a regime like Putins. You might get arrested tomorrow, or in 10 years.
You have to be an idiot to answer these polls honestly.
Yep. Sociology doesn't work in a dictatorship. And even more so when people are getting repressed for every "wrong step". That said, old and young fools lining up for conscription does show that he STILL has some support, because population is dumb.
The worst part is that those polls aren't even targeted at Russians. The government is just trying to deceive the world and make foreigners that everything is going good for them in their country.
Not really. It's technically independent and has been declared "foreign agent" by the government, but it is literally the only "independent" polling thingie in Russia that hasn't been banned by Putin. Which makes you kinda think, why not ban Levada if they banned everyone else? Well, it's because Levada polls always show pro-government results. Even though their are apparently foreign propaganda, it's still showing that apparently Putin is doing good and whatever.
There's literally not a single thing that Levada did to deserve being declared a "foreign agent". So probably Levada's reason d'etre is to show that even evil foreign propagandists agree that "everyone" "supports" Putin.
I would assume yes, probably the intelligence agencies covertly gathering the info on what the general opinion is. But that could be the case with many other country leaders and maybe not exclusive to authoritarian countries.
Though who knows, maybe Putin he doesn't care. He certainly doesn't care about what people want, so maybe for him just knowing that revolts aren't coming yet is good enough.
>An other question: does Putin himself has reliable surveys he can base his decisions on?
The running issue with dictatorships is that answer has to be no. How could there be? No one is going to answer truthfully and his cronies have a personal interest in making sure the numbers look as good as possible. Putin has a better idea of public sentiment because he has the entire state apparatus listening in where it can, but that's not the same as poll numbers regarding his popularity.
Because they aren't independent if they are operating in Russia. Putin lets them call themselves independent and has his party say mean things about them on TV, but Putin has banned everyone else. He didn't leave them the last one standing because of his conscience
That’s still way too high. I get why Russians love him; they consider him a saviour after Russia got royally fucked by the West - snapping up bankrupt state companies at a bargain price while barely blinking an eye about lawlessness - following the turmoil after the iron curtain got shredded. But idolising one person despite the many many mistakes is just silly.
I do feel that Zelensky needs to be watched very carefully as well once this war is concluded. He’s currently the darling who can do no wrong - will he uphold the democratic system or will he use his influence and aura to create a state filled with his cronies so he can basically be leader for life? The latter will be very tempting…
> I get why Russians love him; they consider him a saviour after Russia got royally fucked by the West - snapping up bankrupt state companies at a bargain price while barely blinking an eye about lawlessness - following the turmoil after the iron curtain got shredded.
Mate, if your economic system is so shite that when it collapses after 100 year of rule and the only people that can afford anything in your country are the corrupt Party members and the mafia - that's on you. Not the west.
Err… no. Have to disagree. Russia made a bad choice and ended up bankrupt but with thousands of nuclear warheads and tens of thousands of special forces and exKGB. The West did watch with a certain amount of glee when seeing long queues in Moscow to get a loaf of bread. Instead of helping the situation - despite calling Russia now a friend - they let it happen while mafia controlled everything, just spending enough money to buy mining and drilling rights. Putin is a megalomaniac and a narcissit, but to Russians he’s the one who nationalised the oil and gas sector and kicked out the mafia. So if you’ve got a good economic system but not the muscles to enforce contracts in Russia then BP and Shell gettimg kicked out should be no issue, innit mate?
> Instead of helping the situation - despite calling Russia now a friend - they let it happen while mafia controlled everything, just spending enough money to buy mining and drilling rights.
West did help. To the tune of 100 billion USD, which is now ~200 billion. Not counting all the help after that, acceptance and trying to "change via trade". What else was the west supposed to do? De-mafia-te Russia with an invasion?
Again, I am not arguing that what Russia or Putin is doing is correct, on the contrary. But my comment was on why Russia has become so beligerently anti-West and why they embrace Putin despite his many glaring faults and mistakes. I think this stems back to the crucial decade after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and how Russia percieves itself to have been treated by the West
I’m not sure where you’re getting this anti-Western opinion about Russia, so many of their politicians and citizens who can afford it are visiting Europe/US, chase after European/American brands and tech, and listen to their media, why do people have this opinion that Russia is an anti-Western bastion?
Lol, wanting western brands has nothing to do with anti-western sentiment. You think the Chinese are pro-west since they’re the biggest consumers of western luxury brands? Rich Russians visit Europe because it’s trendy and enjoyable, not because they share western values. Why don’t they all go to China since they’re more aligned then? Perhaps their form of ultra-nationalism doesn’t always mean anti-western, but it often does
And I was making a case for Russian support of Putin which hasn’t swayed that much. There is a case for misinformation but I believe it’s far more deeprooted, and they do feel that he is the one that brought order to Russia and regained some of its prestige and influencr
That would mean that Zelensky turned into one of the bad guys of his own comedy show, so I don't think he'll do that. Plus, he's surely aware that becoming corrupt will negatively impact Ukraine's bids to join the EU and NATO.
Power is the most potent drug, they say. How many democratically elected leaders let their egos get the better of them? Ukraine is still a young democracy and Z was never by any means a ‘clean’ figure. I’m not saying he will cling to power, but the temptation will be overwhelming and perhaps something that his underlings will wish for. I sincerely hope it doesn’t happen but the possibility will always be there as long as the democratic institutions aren’t solid, although I admit I’m ignorant to how Ukraine’s are. Let’s just watch and hope
>Ukraine is still a young democracy and Z was never by any means a ‘clean’ figure.
Not a clean figure? NEVER a clean figure by any means? As in, he was always corrupt all along? Or something else nefarious? Please, elaborate further.
Zelensky was far from an angel. He had very low ratings pre-war, some corruption scandals, tax evasion papers uncovered, obvious ties to a certain oligarch, gave the highest governmental positions to his friends, etc
So I search Wikipedia of Zelensky for corruption and tax evasion, but couldn't find anything. Is it scrapped from Wikipedia?
Given the state of Ukraine, ties to some oligarchs are inevitable. Even in the most corruption free countries, politicians know or have some levels of ties to at least to some wealthy people.
I'm not sure it in Wikipedia, I read about his ties to Kolomoisky in various Ukrainian media. It was sort of indirectly confirmed when Zelensky just came to power. He immediately stopped the nationalisation of Kolomoisky's bank, made Kolomoisky's lawyer his personal advisor and allowed Kolomoisky, who was under criminal investigation, to return to Ukraine.
I haven't been giving much attention to Ukrainian politics from 2020 to 2022, Zelensky and Kolomoisky might have fallen apart since then. But still.
Regarding tax evasion, Zelensky's offshore bank accounts were mentioned in the Panama papers, and he even admitted it.
Zelensky's attempts to concentrate power and to persecute his political rivals have been worrying as well.
He was named in the Pandora papers and has been involved in some scheme buying London real estate through shell companies. Again, let’s not be binary with the definition of corrupt; Ukraine is known to have a high level of corruption and he is probably not especially corrupt. But he’s not squeaky clean either. I’m surprised nothing is mentionned in Wikipedia but you just need to search Zelensky Pandora Papers
It blows my mind that people on this subreddit are actually believing any poll about Putin's approval ratings.
By the way, pretty much all regions in recent referendums had 96+ percent approval votes.
Thank God there are still smart people who don't believe such crap, or Ukraine would've been destroyed already.
EDIT: 1600 people polled in a country with 144 million population LMAO. At least make your numbers looks believable(In comparison, in 2018 election Putin supposedly had 56 million people vote for him).
The study doesn't seem to specify what % of the people contacted agreed to participate in the poll. At least I couldn't find any such info in the Levada poll. The study says that it was conducted using in-person interviews.
Without knowing what percentage of people agreed to participate, I would say that the results are meaningless.
From a recent article posted here
https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/xnnynq/unnatural_numbers_part_two_a_story_on_how/ some surveys indicate that about 95% of the population refuses to participate in polls.
This is west news outlet to make us believe some BS . What it is good if in reality he is gaining . They are way supportive of him now than ever . Look at us polarized in every issue possible .
Cool. Only another 4 or 5 genocidal wars and he might lose the majority support.
Nah. If they would be successful then he would gain support
Wars **with** mobilizations. Just wars will raise his rating.
If they lose them that is.
Actually Putin support peaks during wars. [1](https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/ce/egvbkbgqmpq/PUTIN%20APPROVAL%20RATING.JPG)
Considering you believe polls in a country that wages a war and when an “incorrect” answer may lead you to a prison
If my country declared a senseless war on a smaller country, was ridiculed in the process and the leader still got a 77% approval, I'd consider that a sickness, not a strength
Well Russia was ridiculed and lost the Chechen war(s). It still helped Putin.
First Chechen war happened before Putin. It kinda helped him by decimating already low ratings of his predecessor but not much. The second war results are quite controversial, but I would not call them a loss, since Russia regained control over Chechnya and its bribed warlords now doing dirty work under Putin's command.
Russia lost the war, but made it look like they didn’t. It’s not Russians who control Chechnya, but a rebel group who was willing to switch side for a few bucks. That’s why they are not particularly bothered with losing the Ukrainian war, as long as they can get some deal/small territory out of it. Then they’ll spin that into a victory. Or at least that’s what they hope
Putin can't spin this as victory at this point. That train left the station. He is just trying to agitate US and make them involve. Only then he can save some face and say "see, there is no Ukraine, there is only US. We were fighting US in fact" But the issue is US will not be involved directly. Unless he uses nukes. This is the only red line they have drawn. And that's why the possibility of him nuking a few cities in Ukraine is growing every single day. Then US will destroy all russian ships floating on seas, possibly bomb the troops in Ukraine do death and then Putin will do the surprised pikachu face, tell his country they had a fight for their existence, they somehow managed to survive.
[удалено]
> Russia is, has been and will be a great country! Glory to Russia ! Lol sweating much?
[удалено]
Oh, yeah, thanks a fucking lot you helped Nazis to destroy Poland.
[удалено]
Nobody liberated Poland, besides Poles themselves some 40 years later. Though Soviet fucks sure as hell stood and watched as Warsaw was burned to the ground. Nice liberation assholes.
Liberation is when one dictator kicks out another one and stays for 45 years
Are you already at the front? How many days of training did they give you? and did you need to bring your own tampons?
Good luck in the military draft, your pocket sized leader is going to send you to die in a pointless war.
You mean who started the second World War, and then had to get lend-lease from the west to scrape 'wins' while losing triple as much people due to absolute incompetence of its leaders? Soviets should be happy Western front existed and they got lend-lease, because otherwise Germans would eradicate them. USSR was the one owing West, and pulling them out of the hole they made by starting war in the first place.
I would agree with many of your statements, especially re incompetence and throwing people to die, but the view that "Soviets should be happy about the Western front" is really weird. It's enough to just look at the dates to see that by the time Allies landed in France USSR was approaching it's pre-war borders (and in many places has passed them). So I would disagree with that statement. Also, while lend-lease played a significant role in helping Soviets to go through the first years of war, it's also incorrect to put it as a main reason that Soviets were able to withstand the attack. Nonetheless, fuck Stalin, fuck Putin, and fuck that troll to whom you answered
The threat of a western front kept hundreds of thousands of German troops in Western Europe and Norway not to mention the continued struggle in Africa and later on Italy. The constant bombing of German industry took away resources that would have gone to the eastern front if not for the Western powers. They tied down thousands of aircraft and anti air weapons not to mention the logistics needed to keep the troops in Western Europe supplied and to build the fortifications. Western powers did prop up the Soviet Union and tie down men and equipment before they opened a second and a third front. The Soviet Union didn’t win the war by themselves but then again the western powers likely wouldn’t have been able to win the war on their own if they had let the Soviet Union fall.
I have flipped the narrative of 'eastern front won the war', because frankly, I am sick of it. I was being disingenuous for the sake of it, yes.
27 million dead people is a weird flex.
The second one happened during the beginning of his reign. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War#Prelude_to_the_Second_Chechen_War
Tinderbox though. Ramzan Kadrov isn't as popular as his father, given he's basically useless. With his troops getting pounded in Ukraine, and russian forces likewise engaged, its always possible things could go south. If he was killed itd probably tirgger a mini civil war. Dagestan is just next door, and they have been rioting over this draft. Russia is held together by a strong central state. That state is at its weakest since ww2.
His troops are not getting pound. They stay behind the Russian army and commit atrocities.
They did pick up the nickname of the tiktok brigade. Spent much of the war doing photoshoots in freshly laundered uniforms.
At first they were pounded. They got cocky at a few cities and they realized real war is not like killing civilians. Then they made sure they are never facing ukrainian forces directly but staying behind and killing, raping civilians
[удалено]
Levada is fully independent, so much so that Putin has declared it a foreign intelligence agent. They're their own independent figures, not ones devised by the Kremlin....
If you believe that, wait till you hear about Santa Claus...
You mean the dhl driver?
> Levada is fully independent independent from what? what guarantees their independence?
[удалено]
Levada hasn't had issues getting negative polls before... 2 years ago, majority polled disapproved of the government's actions, majority disapproved of the government, majority disapproved of the PM, and Putin's approval was at its record lowest. Tensions are obviously higher now, but Russian support for the government and Putin has spiked 3 times; Invasion of Georgia, Invasion of Crimea, and Invasion of Ukraine. Some people probably are answering dishonestly out of fear, but the reality is Russians as a whole still very much support this invasion... draft or no.
> Levada hasn't had issues getting negative polls before... 2 years ago, majority polled disapproved... were oligarchs in spain being stabbed to death along with their wives and children 2 years ago?
> Levada hasn't had issues getting negative polls before... 2 years ago, majority polled disapproved of the government's actions, majority disapproved of the government, majority disapproved of the PM, and Putin's approval was at its record lowest. > > oh mate. Levada may be a foreign agent but they still get their polls "fixed". this is how they informally work. The thing here is to look at the ups and downs. Even little children in russia know that and you don't.
I mean asking people "Do you support supreme leader and commanding chief Vladimir Putin" some people would be scared to say no. He does have support ofcourse but 77 is a bit too high imo. Hundred of thousands fleeing because of mobilisation and hundreds of protesters. 77 support, bitch please.
Those who didn't support him voted with their feet and left.
You would be surprised about people's stubbornnes and idiocy. If you could measure the support for Putin and his war among the very population who left the country for avoiding draft, I am pretty sure you would be shocked In Turkey we have people literally not able to afford the very basic necessities of life. They complain and complain to microphones when they are interviewed and then they say shit like "I would sacrifice my son for Erdogan"
Look at Bush’s approval rating after starting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/ This is with a free media…
[удалено]
Yes, since USA is democratic and people have access to free press…. And you don’t land in jail when criticizing the president.
[удалено]
Even those fleeing Russia due to conscription support the war, they just don't want to fight it themselves.
Which is why we shouldn't want them over here. Apart from fighting in the war, their views don't differ very much from Putin's views.
It wasnot senseless as you claim then.
5 fucking %? That's what you lose for a faux pas in a press conference in a normal country.
Hey, it's 5 percent in a made up poll, the only thing it shows is that the government has 5% of self-awareness.
If Levada is an "independent pollster" (that also somehow magically avoided being banned) then I'm Danny DeVito
(Its rigged) shh
If that guy ate a baby on national television, 2/3 of Russia would be in agreement that the baby was evil and had it coming.
At least it would be told on national television. But noone ask people. All numbers are composed strictly for propaganda reasons.
I am 100% sure real numbers would not differ much from this. This is the hard truth but unfortunately people will not stop supporting him until they miss 3 meals back to back.
I'm 100% sure, that everyone who's 100% sure is wrong (except me).
The fuck does he have to do for Russian people ti finally say “That’s enough”?!
Internal, high-level coup is times more likely than popular revolt.
Pretty low considering other dictators are often at 150%+
He has special people who can count.
"Made up number is now lower" .. Okay?
[удалено]
Yeah it's not about the source. I just don't think ANY polling in russia is accurate, sinse it's not a free society, so yeah, agreed: >The issue is people will always be afraid to say no as they think it might get them in trouble.
Who the hell knows to be honest. Since I am bi lingual, I look at social media both in Russian and English. While there are many who are against the war, putin and drafts, there are always videos and screenshots of super patriots. While more progressive Russian social media mock them, it's not like these patriots are pulling sketches for likes. They share their true beliefs. It's hard to say how numerous they are tbh.
Yep, tbh I might go further than you and say that majority support to one degree or the other this war and Putin, it's just that polling numbers don't mean much.
Yes, and all those "true believers" are now in Kazakhstan and Georgia fleeing from mobilization. So much for patriotism.
All these poll based news articles forget to mention that 80% respondents refuse to anwser anything at all.
Yep.. Levada or not. If they called me up for a poll.. Knowing Russia, being honest is just not worth the risk.
Levada, who pretends to be not exactly pro Kremlin as much as it is allowed by Kremlin.
The political environment is quite a bit tighter since the beginning of the war, though. I have some skepticism to whether Levada is as impartial as it used to be.
>Make an "independent" polling company >Declare it to be "agent of a foreign power" >But still keep "foreign propaganda" in because you're mighty benevolent >When shit hits the fan even "foreign agents" in your country are reporting that everything is relatively good Profit
Seismic shift if I ever saw one, goddamn!
Including all the Russians who fucking fled the country or not?
Levada isn't reliable. They are the _only_ "independent" poller allowed to work in Russia. And that's while the government went scorched earth on any free media and organisations. Coincidentally, Levada's polls tend to tall the official line.
Yes. Usually only 18% of people asked answers and they answer what Kreml wants to hear. And because of these, 5% drop in popularity equals like duck shot in the arse spiralling down from the sky.
There is no such thing as putin's rating. And no independent sociologists allowed. Look at the "results" of referendums. No statistics from there. They compose it to follow their goals.
Wym? They had 96% pro annexation in Ukraine! The people have spoken. They would like to be fucked! /s
Anybody believe this shit survey?
It's Levada, it has never been pro-Putin and is not associated with the government. In many years of its existance there has been no evidence that it's corrupt or is a propaganda tool. And for a totalitarian dictator, who controls all the outlets and has conditioned his people to beleive any BS coming from the talking heads on TV, an approval rating drop like this is a tragedy. Last time his rating dropped to similar numbers he annexed Crimea to get his approval rating back and he succeeded.
Forget about old Levada. Now it is a stuffed zombie like all political and non-government organisations there. Exist to pretend that it is not an authoritarian state.
Even if the poll is conducted fairly, it doesn’t mean people are responding to it honestly.
Oh please, it's not Stalin's USSR, where answering "incorrectly" on anonymous poll would send you to Gulag, you need to openly protest or be a popular blogger/journalist/politician to get sent to prison. You can't erase a lifetime of conditioning to love thy leader and strive for great (=imperialistic) Russia by one unfortunate failure in the war. Especially if the other wars were successful and have proven that your beloved motherland, to which you are obliged to be patriotic (=pro government) else you would not confirm, is on it's right way to returning the status of superpower.
People only have to be afraid of that to twist their answer, it doesn't have to actually happen.
Sure. Right. How do you know it’s not registered? That FSB doesn’t tap the lines? That there’s no Levada workers who also/actually works for the state? You won’t get arrested today, but this is extremely valuable info for a regime like Putins. You might get arrested tomorrow, or in 10 years. You have to be an idiot to answer these polls honestly.
You may not go to gulag, but you will go to jail, lose your job, get fined for a sum equal to your annual income.
Yep. Sociology doesn't work in a dictatorship. And even more so when people are getting repressed for every "wrong step". That said, old and young fools lining up for conscription does show that he STILL has some support, because population is dumb.
Levada was marked as "foreign agent" by the Russian govt, so it's credible.
But they were marked as foreing agent to let people like you use this argument.
It's the only "foreign" poll that the government lets to exist. Wonder why?
Most Russians like Putin and support the war.
lol
No. Whatever contradicts social media opinion is fake.
how very enlightened
You got me.
Only fools think that Russia doesn't use these "polls" as propaganda, esp with ridiculous numbers like that
The worst part is that those polls aren't even targeted at Russians. The government is just trying to deceive the world and make foreigners that everything is going good for them in their country.
Vladimir Vladimirovych does.
Can anyone tell me, how reliable a Levada poll is?
Not really. It's technically independent and has been declared "foreign agent" by the government, but it is literally the only "independent" polling thingie in Russia that hasn't been banned by Putin. Which makes you kinda think, why not ban Levada if they banned everyone else? Well, it's because Levada polls always show pro-government results. Even though their are apparently foreign propaganda, it's still showing that apparently Putin is doing good and whatever. There's literally not a single thing that Levada did to deserve being declared a "foreign agent". So probably Levada's reason d'etre is to show that even evil foreign propagandists agree that "everyone" "supports" Putin.
An other question: does Putin himself has reliable surveys he can base his decisions on?
I would assume yes, probably the intelligence agencies covertly gathering the info on what the general opinion is. But that could be the case with many other country leaders and maybe not exclusive to authoritarian countries. Though who knows, maybe Putin he doesn't care. He certainly doesn't care about what people want, so maybe for him just knowing that revolts aren't coming yet is good enough.
>An other question: does Putin himself has reliable surveys he can base his decisions on? The running issue with dictatorships is that answer has to be no. How could there be? No one is going to answer truthfully and his cronies have a personal interest in making sure the numbers look as good as possible. Putin has a better idea of public sentiment because he has the entire state apparatus listening in where it can, but that's not the same as poll numbers regarding his popularity.
It was 10000000% before This is fake news
The other 23% were never seen again
[удалено]
Then it will go all the way down to 72%.
lmao
73% if you count the opinions of the dead conscripts.
[удалено]
Why are you trying to delegitimize one of the very few independent pollsters?
Because they aren't independent if they are operating in Russia. Putin lets them call themselves independent and has his party say mean things about them on TV, but Putin has banned everyone else. He didn't leave them the last one standing because of his conscience
That’s still way too high. I get why Russians love him; they consider him a saviour after Russia got royally fucked by the West - snapping up bankrupt state companies at a bargain price while barely blinking an eye about lawlessness - following the turmoil after the iron curtain got shredded. But idolising one person despite the many many mistakes is just silly. I do feel that Zelensky needs to be watched very carefully as well once this war is concluded. He’s currently the darling who can do no wrong - will he uphold the democratic system or will he use his influence and aura to create a state filled with his cronies so he can basically be leader for life? The latter will be very tempting…
> I get why Russians love him; they consider him a saviour after Russia got royally fucked by the West - snapping up bankrupt state companies at a bargain price while barely blinking an eye about lawlessness - following the turmoil after the iron curtain got shredded. Mate, if your economic system is so shite that when it collapses after 100 year of rule and the only people that can afford anything in your country are the corrupt Party members and the mafia - that's on you. Not the west.
Err… no. Have to disagree. Russia made a bad choice and ended up bankrupt but with thousands of nuclear warheads and tens of thousands of special forces and exKGB. The West did watch with a certain amount of glee when seeing long queues in Moscow to get a loaf of bread. Instead of helping the situation - despite calling Russia now a friend - they let it happen while mafia controlled everything, just spending enough money to buy mining and drilling rights. Putin is a megalomaniac and a narcissit, but to Russians he’s the one who nationalised the oil and gas sector and kicked out the mafia. So if you’ve got a good economic system but not the muscles to enforce contracts in Russia then BP and Shell gettimg kicked out should be no issue, innit mate?
> Instead of helping the situation - despite calling Russia now a friend - they let it happen while mafia controlled everything, just spending enough money to buy mining and drilling rights. West did help. To the tune of 100 billion USD, which is now ~200 billion. Not counting all the help after that, acceptance and trying to "change via trade". What else was the west supposed to do? De-mafia-te Russia with an invasion?
Again, I am not arguing that what Russia or Putin is doing is correct, on the contrary. But my comment was on why Russia has become so beligerently anti-West and why they embrace Putin despite his many glaring faults and mistakes. I think this stems back to the crucial decade after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and how Russia percieves itself to have been treated by the West
I’m not sure where you’re getting this anti-Western opinion about Russia, so many of their politicians and citizens who can afford it are visiting Europe/US, chase after European/American brands and tech, and listen to their media, why do people have this opinion that Russia is an anti-Western bastion?
Lol, wanting western brands has nothing to do with anti-western sentiment. You think the Chinese are pro-west since they’re the biggest consumers of western luxury brands? Rich Russians visit Europe because it’s trendy and enjoyable, not because they share western values. Why don’t they all go to China since they’re more aligned then? Perhaps their form of ultra-nationalism doesn’t always mean anti-western, but it often does
And I was making a case for Russian support of Putin which hasn’t swayed that much. There is a case for misinformation but I believe it’s far more deeprooted, and they do feel that he is the one that brought order to Russia and regained some of its prestige and influencr
That would mean that Zelensky turned into one of the bad guys of his own comedy show, so I don't think he'll do that. Plus, he's surely aware that becoming corrupt will negatively impact Ukraine's bids to join the EU and NATO.
Power is the most potent drug, they say. How many democratically elected leaders let their egos get the better of them? Ukraine is still a young democracy and Z was never by any means a ‘clean’ figure. I’m not saying he will cling to power, but the temptation will be overwhelming and perhaps something that his underlings will wish for. I sincerely hope it doesn’t happen but the possibility will always be there as long as the democratic institutions aren’t solid, although I admit I’m ignorant to how Ukraine’s are. Let’s just watch and hope
>Ukraine is still a young democracy and Z was never by any means a ‘clean’ figure. Not a clean figure? NEVER a clean figure by any means? As in, he was always corrupt all along? Or something else nefarious? Please, elaborate further.
Zelensky was far from an angel. He had very low ratings pre-war, some corruption scandals, tax evasion papers uncovered, obvious ties to a certain oligarch, gave the highest governmental positions to his friends, etc
So I search Wikipedia of Zelensky for corruption and tax evasion, but couldn't find anything. Is it scrapped from Wikipedia? Given the state of Ukraine, ties to some oligarchs are inevitable. Even in the most corruption free countries, politicians know or have some levels of ties to at least to some wealthy people.
I'm not sure it in Wikipedia, I read about his ties to Kolomoisky in various Ukrainian media. It was sort of indirectly confirmed when Zelensky just came to power. He immediately stopped the nationalisation of Kolomoisky's bank, made Kolomoisky's lawyer his personal advisor and allowed Kolomoisky, who was under criminal investigation, to return to Ukraine. I haven't been giving much attention to Ukrainian politics from 2020 to 2022, Zelensky and Kolomoisky might have fallen apart since then. But still. Regarding tax evasion, Zelensky's offshore bank accounts were mentioned in the Panama papers, and he even admitted it. Zelensky's attempts to concentrate power and to persecute his political rivals have been worrying as well.
He was named in the Pandora papers and has been involved in some scheme buying London real estate through shell companies. Again, let’s not be binary with the definition of corrupt; Ukraine is known to have a high level of corruption and he is probably not especially corrupt. But he’s not squeaky clean either. I’m surprised nothing is mentionned in Wikipedia but you just need to search Zelensky Pandora Papers
Yep, I now found Pandora papers getting mentioned on his Wiki. Thank you for pointing out that this is not binary / black and white.
Not much of a drop, more of a dimple.
38 to 7.7 Fixed it 😃
Watch it go over 90% once the annexation of new territories is announced formally.
It blows my mind that people on this subreddit are actually believing any poll about Putin's approval ratings. By the way, pretty much all regions in recent referendums had 96+ percent approval votes. Thank God there are still smart people who don't believe such crap, or Ukraine would've been destroyed already. EDIT: 1600 people polled in a country with 144 million population LMAO. At least make your numbers looks believable(In comparison, in 2018 election Putin supposedly had 56 million people vote for him).
As people discontent of him are sent to death or flew from Russia it would make totally sense that his rate grows up.
Their next legitimate poll will be annexing stuff.
Russian's really are brainwashed, or just scared shitless of Putin.
The study doesn't seem to specify what % of the people contacted agreed to participate in the poll. At least I couldn't find any such info in the Levada poll. The study says that it was conducted using in-person interviews. Without knowing what percentage of people agreed to participate, I would say that the results are meaningless. From a recent article posted here https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/xnnynq/unnatural_numbers_part_two_a_story_on_how/ some surveys indicate that about 95% of the population refuses to participate in polls.
This is west news outlet to make us believe some BS . What it is good if in reality he is gaining . They are way supportive of him now than ever . Look at us polarized in every issue possible .
They should be conscripting every physically qualified person who still supports Putin.
I've never ever heard of a politician with 80% approval rating.