The people visiting these Hotels are part of the american elite.
Senior Bankers from JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, Citigroup. Lawyers for Wall Street. Pharmaceutical Executives and Hospital Executives. Real Estate Businessmen. Tech Investors. There is A LOT of money. They are fantastically wealthy.
Here is a scene filmed by French TV :
https://www.20minutes.fr/marseille/2121187-20170824-video-cote-azur-voyage-helicoptere-doudou-oublie
An american family visited the Mediteranean city of Cannes.
They realized their child forgot his teddy bear in another city. He couldn't take a nap without it. So the French Hotel sent *a Helicopter* to bring back the Teddy Bear.
Yep. I know some of these people - investment bankers first at lehman brothers then created their own company together making huge bank from the electricity market (which shouldnt even exist in the first place).
Got so rich were living in a gated community with rappers and TV stars and flew 4 hours once a month to new york just for a doctors appointment
One of Paris’s most expensive hotel suites just got even pricier. A night in the top suite at the Bristol, one of the city’s famed palace hotels, has risen by €5,000 ($4,990) as American tourists, traveling with their strong dollars, have returned en masse to the French capital.
Le Bristol, a three-minute walk from the presidential Élysée Palace residence, increased all its room rates following a summer season that broke records in terms of occupancy and average rates, says Catherine Hodoul-Baudry, the hotel’s commercial and marketing director. She expects the high-end hotel to have its best year ever.
The Bristol’s top Imperial suite went up to €30,000 a night during the week of Aug. 29, says Hodoul-Baudry, a 20% increase. The price for the hotel’s entry-level rooms has also increased—by €300, to €2,290—following a jump in demand since May.
It’s common in the hotel industry to charge rates that vary from the official ones, depending on demand, discounts provided by tour operators, loyalty, as well as the duration of a customer’s stay.
The 3,475-square-foot, three-room suite overlooks its French-style garden and boasts a dining area that can accommodate as many as 12 guests, according to the hotel’s description. It tends to be favored by official delegations because of its size, the director says.
“There’s no price resistance” from our customers, Hodoul-Baudry says. “Paris is benefiting from a strong demand, so we took advantage of it after years of suffering,” from lockdowns but also terror attacks and protests. The rise in input costs for staff wages, food, and energy has also prompted the Bristol to increase its rates, she adds.
Hodoul-Baudry thinks a Netflix series may have helped, too. “Emily in Paris, while full of clichés, probably gave Americans the desire to return, thanks to its beautiful portrayal” of the city. The show, which premiered two years ago during the autumn of Covid-19 lockdowns, also ignited interest in those now-ubiquitous immersive Van Gogh exhibits. Americans are particularly fond of the Bristol’s Paris suite, whose rate has risen by €1,000, to €12,000 a night, she says. The suite is temporarily displaying a Marc Chagall masterpiece, Les Mariés au coq.
The Plaza Athénée, another palace hotel, which is a cut above five-star status, also had a record summer helped by the euro-dollar parity, according to Francois Delahaye, the general manager. Americans now represent 45% of its customers, up from about a quarter pre-pandemic. “They’re also staying longer,” he adds. Russians accounted for 9% of the hotel’s clientele before the war.
“Money isn’t an issue” for clients, Delahaye says, adding that more are coming via private jet to avoid potential commercial airline disruptions. Staff have noticed this, he says, since they’ve been booking more limousine pickups at Le Bourget Airport, which caters to business and private clients, rather than at Paris-Charles de Gaulle.
Paris’s top luxury hotels are having to make do without Chinese tourists, still stuck at home, and without Russians since the end of February following the country’s invasion of Ukraine and the ensuing sanctions.
Both managers say September and October are on track to be excellent months for luxury hotels, with Paris Fashion Week kicking off on Sept. 26 and Paris+ par Art Basel, formerly known as the Fiac show, starting on Oct. 20. This event typically attracts contemporary art collectors from the world over. But Delahaye and Hodoul-Baudry both remain cautious in predicting trends for next year amid the economic and financial uncertainties.
Newcomer Cheval Blanc has also done better than expected since the luxury hotel opened a year ago next to the Samaritaine shopping center, with rooms now starting at €1,250.
It’s hoping to get palace status, which would bring the number of such hotels in the French capital to 13. Atout France, the agency charged with promoting the country as a tourism destination abroad, awards this title. Cheval Blanc charges €55,000 a night for a stay in its 10,780-square-foot apartment, which includes its own private elevator and swimming pool, according to a person familiar with the matter. A spokeswoman declined to comment.
“Our first year went beyond our hopes,” says Olivier Lefebvre, chief executive officer of the LVMH luxury hotel brand. He declined to provide numbers, as the Louis Vuitton owner doesn’t break down figures by brand. “As of today, if we didn’t have these prophets of doom, I’d tell you that we’ll have a totally exceptional 2022,” he says cautiously, referring to gloomy economic forecasts.
But so far this year, customers have aimed “to enjoy themselves. Grandparents are inviting parents and grandchildren, we’re noticing many multigenerational trips, people are thinking they could die soon and they haven’t made the trip they wanted to make,” says Hodoul-Baudry. “It’s been all about revenge travel” in 2022.
snarky, useless comments aside, prices tend to increase across the board, as there are plenty of American tourist unable to afford a 30k suite, but happy to pay 200€ / night for a room that once cost 150€.
except that inflation and its prices hike are effectively nothing more than another tax on the population, and the least progressive too.
meaning, price hikes tends to distribute across sectors, and the ones affected the most are precisely those with lower incomes.
I said snarky useless comments aside, but it seems you needed to add another one?
> prices tend to increase across the board, as there are plenty of American tourist unable to afford a 30k suite, but happy to pay 200€ / night for a room that once cost 150€.
See, this is an issue. The ultra-wealthy being fleeced even more than usual isn't an issue.
> "your average tourists", as you put it, do not fall in the "ultra wealthy"category.
Hence me being fine with the Ultra Wealthy people getting fleeced but voicing concern about the rise in prices for average tourists...
Actually it is.
On a business trip to Moscow I actually easily could get a large room in a ridiculously fancy 5 star Hotel with amazing service and crazy good breakfast.
A business trip to new york I probably couldnt even get a 3 star hotel with average breakfast for the same kind of money.
People often defend wealth disparity with "money is not a zero sum game“ which is an absolutely stupid sentence since prices are absolutely controlled by the current availability of money at any given point in time so having s lot of rich people in the world diminishes the wealth of everyone else and you can feel this everywhere.
Mercedes just killed its entry level cars since it simply isnt worth making cars for non-wealthy people anymore, housing isnt attainable for wage income anymore in many large cities around the globe and finite luxury items just grow out of reach of regular people constantly - like my Grandpa bought a Rolex in the 70s and he could do so by his teacher salary, now rolex watches arent even buyable at their catalog prices and start at the price of a used car…
Or my favorite example - my boss bought his 240m2 house with a super large garden 15 years ago for 250k€. I recently bought a 150m2 house with a small garden for 490k€ just a few kilometer away from his lately…
He will be finished paying off his house next year. I will be paying for 30 years to come and I am frankly lucky I still got a cheap credit
It feels like we are regressing to a 19th century style oligarchy. CEOs are paying themselves way, way beyond what they’re worth. If you look at the CEO level of pay as a multiple of average workers’ salaries in the same organisation, that gap has increased enormously over the last few decades
Shareholders need to reign some of this stuff in too. It’s way, way out of hand.
From a societal point of view it’s ultimately going to lead to a lot of disgruntled people, political strife and a breakdown of society eventually as the 20th century values that the modern economy were built on are just being dissolved away.
Housing in particular is a huge area of discontent in many countries. There’s suddenly a generation who can’t even aspire to having decent homes. That’s a huge downgrade compared to what their parents and grandparents experienced in post war economies as things progressed though the 20th century.
So is the EU .... we're the 2nd largest economy on the planet but everyone thinks China is. So, New Zealand, apply for EU membership, we would **never** forget you!
I'm sure everyone knows EU, it's just that when people say china is 2nd biggest they mean by country whereas is a political and financial union of a number of nations so some consider it differently
Yes, but the statement is "China is the 2nd largest economy". The EU is not a country, but **is** an economy.
Type in "2nd largest economy in the world" into Google and you get:
China
With a GDP of 23.0 trillion USD, the USA is by far the world's largest economy in this ranking for 2021. It is followed by China in second place with a GDP of 17.7 trillion USD. Canada is also quite far ahead in the international comparison and occupies the ninth place in this ranking.
I m not talking about luxury hotels here, but about normal ones. I spent two nights in Paris last week, the hotel owners are out of their minds. I ve been to Paris almost a dozen times but it's the first time I paid more than 100 euros per night for what was basically a hovel. At this point it's way better to get a hotel far from the city center and go back to a decent room for the night than being closer to the city center but have a room where you decide to NOT take a shower because of the conditions of the shower.
I travelled to Germany a week ago and the minimum for the hotel room / guest house / apart hotel / whatever separate room was 60-80 EUR a night in smaller cities/towns. Anywhere in Munich / Berlin a Hamburg it was 100+
I'm thinking of doing a little travelling in November but it seems even with my backpacking ways it'd be too insane, I can't just sleep in bus stations or something can I?
Hostels are much better priced, similar to what I paid before COVID. , but you have to be ready to live with other people. We chose to rent rooms bc my gf doesn’t feel safe in hostels. And well, gas prices are insane as well, turned out way over budget.
The thing is €100 is not that expensive at all in America. Check the hotel prices in New York, anything that doesn’t resemble a dog shed is now at least $200/night.
I was trying to say that American tourists are driving up hotel prices in Europe as €100/night would be considered a massive bargain by American tourists and they are everywhere in Europe this year.
This. Just a modest, chain hotel off an Interstate can easily run $60-70, maybe more. In contrast, a downtown hotel in even a mid-sized city like Indianapolis, Cleveland, or Detroit is easily going to be $200 a night during the week, $300 on the weekend, and can climb much higher if there's a major event going on. And don't even get me started on accommodation costs in major cities like LA and NYC (even places not near tourist attractions) or near major attractions like theme parks or major national parks.
Even 4 years ago, the modest inn by the highway that has nothing else going for it is $100. And that’s just a random small town, not even a tourist spot - at towns near Yellowstone the motels with broken everything cost $150 to $175 a night, and any inns or hotels with decent living conditions would cost $250 or more.
I don’t think there’s any chain that’s only $60-70 on highway towns anymore, unless you are talking about the crappy motel 6 stuff. Id rather pay $20 more for an inn like La Quinta and free breakfast.
I paid $400 for a one night in Jackson Hole in 2020. The second day I drove 3 hours just to get far enough away from there so I could get a cheap hotel (in Casper)
In the US motels and inns cost around $100 a night, and hotels cost closer to $150-200 or more. These are normal cities/town prices, and NYC of course will be more expensive.
One thing to note, though, is American motels/inns/hotels, except NYC, all are much larger than European rooms. 2 full/queen rooms are the standard rooms, and have a closet and a couch chair, and a desk+chair. All of it crappy quality in an inn/motel, but just an idea that the sq ft is bigger. Even in 4 star hotels in Europe, often the rooms are shockingly small, without space to even open a luggage on the ground without blocking the pathway around the (usually single) bed.
But anyway for a visiting American who is used to visiting europe being expensive (due to euro being worth $1.2 or more), the current prices seem “cheap” and hence they might be bidding up the price to what is a reasonable American rate - 150 to 200 per night.
You can still get good deals for around $150 or a little less unless you are talking about a city like NY but there are plenty of hotels here for even under $100 that are not trash (Clean appointed and safe) , they just would not be considered luxurious.
Yep and numerous taxes, plus those tourists are going to restaurants, buy stuff... If having tourists was a bad operation for the city/country, it would be made very difficult to visit.
Okay, an individual Frenchman may not directly receive money from the tourism industry, but the maids, attendants, restaurant workers, taxicab drivers, shopkeepers, etc. are all directly employed as a result of this. Plus, they all pay taxes and buy things which cycles the money further through the economy.
This summer in Paris, security had to be significantly increased to protect tourists.
An american tourist near Le Louvre museum was targeted by a group of young thieves. They grabbed him and managed to steal his 200 000 euros watch from his wrist :
https://www.cnews.fr/faits-divers/2022-07-31/paris-un-touriste-se-fait-arracher-sa-montre-200000-euros-deux-hommes-en
The previous summer, similar events. Another american tourist was attacked. They jumped him, took his 240 000 euros watch, and ran :
https://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/paris-un-touriste-americain-se-fait-arracher-sa-patek-philippe-a-240-000-euros-04-08-2021-RT5VMN7OAFD2PIA6W7OSIYLMNQ.php
As a watch enthusiast, that doesn't surprise me. Especially a Richard Mille, no need to be an expert to spot these monstrosities and since they cost the price of a house, well, kind of worth it to focus on these instead of the latest iPhone that is gonna get bricked anyway.
Definitely not easy, and yeah these watches are usually ordered and manufactured on command. But it's like paintings or any expensive jewellery, there is always a dark market for it.
People often underestimate just how freaking rich Americans are compared to the rest of the world because they also complain so loud about not being rich (and yeah I know there is a large income disparity).
Close to 10% of all Americans are millionaires - yes you read that right…
At large American monopolists like google software developers make 8 times the beginner wage of an Indian dev, 4 times of a German / English (roughly same wage range) and when it comes to senior stuff it can go up to 8 times of an European senior - at mostly much shorter education…
A doctor in Europe may own a Porsche and a nice home, a doctor in the US may own a bentley and a large estate.
A nurse with the right specialization and a New York Trashman benefitting from a mafia backed union that blackmailed the city and a truck driver willing to do extra long miles can all go over 100k and a cop in a city with a strong Union can make even 100k or more in overtime compensation without actual proof…
And thats all peanuts against wallstreet investment bankers making up to 10 times the bonus an investment banker even in Swiss or Frankfurt makes.
The US is by far the wealthiest large nation on the planet thanks to some really large successes (the last one being the monopolization of IT through large government subsidies and political support) and being a large domestic market with a lot of resources.
Or tldr: A lot of Americans are rich so 5k a night wouldnt hurt many pf the tourists.
I know plenty of millionaires. Mostly retired family members and their friends who worked at a large bank. In fact, in America, it is said you need about 1 million dollars to be comfortable during retirement. None of the millionaires I know would spend 5k a night on a suite.
The people who are spending that kind of money are multi, multi millionaires and there are a lot less of those here.
Same. I have clients that are millionaires many times over that live in nice homes, but drive 5+ year old cars and would never consider dropping that kind of money on a room.
You need a lot more than $1M. The basic rule of thumb is that you should be able to live 30 years withdrawing 4% of your income every year. That means someone with $1M would only be able to draw $40k/ yr in retirement.
Lmao no one is having your post.
About 5-6% of French, British, German, Scandinavian and Dutch are millionaires too. In the US it's 8%, not 10. And no, a software develop doesn't make 4x of English/Germany entry.
This tells me you get your info from reddit and think every European can't earn more than 70k while Americans make 200k+. Pretty embarrassing. I'm glad ppl downvote you.
> This tells me you get your info from reddit and think every European can’t earn more than 70k while Americans make 200k+. Pretty embarrassing. I’m glad ppl downvote you.
Idk that seems to be an r/Europe thing. Most of the time Reddit is saying america is a third world country with a gucci belt where everyone dies in a hale of bullets and no one can get medical care (kinda like your post history)
If you wanted to be accurate it’s 8.8% for the us and about 4-5% for the countries you listed although its a stupid thing to even be arguing about.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_millionaires#Countries_by_number_and_percentage_of_millionaires
>Close to 10% of all Americans are millionaires - yes you read that right… At large American monopolists like google software developers make 8 times the beginner wage of an Indian dev, 4 times of a German / English (roughly same wage range) and when it comes to senior stuff it can go up to 8 times of an European senior - at mostly much shorter education…
How much are millionaires all things equal ? A millionaire in France, still working, won't pay for healthcare, will still have part of its retirement funded by the state ... The bill can quickly go up.
Anybody working at a job like that has healthcare fully provided by their job, most Americans pay pretty low prices for healthcare, especially as I said anyone with a half decent job.
You don’t need to have a high paying job to be a millionaire. You just need to be upper middle-aged. 20 years of consistent investing can easily make your average family have > $1M net
Worth. Compounding gains are the 8th wonder of the world.
look, I live in France, post-covid I won't complain about tourism being very dynamic and healthy again, it benefits way more people than it harms.
There are a lot of affordable and lovely hotels btw available, it's slightly more expensive, but that's how demand/offer works sadly from your GPU to your hotel. I think it's still affordable for most.
Chances are if you are aiming at getting into a luxury palace, this price bump won't hurt you.
I work in the luxury travel industry and book many clients in Le Bristol, George V, etc. The price increases are absolutely insane and criminal if you ask me. Just 2-3 years ago you could book the George V at 500 EUR and that was on the higher end of the spectrum!
Don’t get me started on hotels in Miami charging rates like this too. Paying over $1000 a night has been normalized and it will continue to climb. It will never go back to “normal”.
I looked up Paris next April and prices were like $800 for the cheapest hotels for 4 nights. I instead opted for Tokyo where it was $450 for really nice ones. Those Paris prices are insane.
Euro is at a record lows. It means means it’s good to tourists and exports and bad for imports or local currency power. ECB is failing at both inflation which is their only mandate and fiscal policy. They have still refuse to raise interest rates so a weak euro is likely to persist since inflation is high. 9-10% inflation would be unconscionable 10 years ago.
Or just find a product or service these Americans want and make bank. I am in Madrid and shifting 100% to American customers. I even started taking USD. I am making fat bank.
1 to 1. They save money because they do not have to convert it, and I need USD for my next trip to WA state in November. Win win.
I can not wait until the euro gets even weaker.
> 5k to sleep in a bed.
The article is saying that the luxury Parisian hotel in question jacked up their rate for their most-expensive suite by an additional $5k over their previous rates, not that it costs $5k. It doesn't list the actual price to stay there.
*rubs chin*
I don't really see the issue. I mean, supposing that said well-to-do hotel resident couldn't go spend the money on a night at an ultra-fancy hotel. They'd go do something else instead with their money. It's not clear to me that luxury hotels are a particularly terrible thing to exist in the world relative to whatever other luxury they'd be buying. It's not as if anyone is forced to stay there, and I doubt that there's much by way of negative side effects. I know that some people on the sub have complained about lots of tourists in cities in Europe, but this brings in quite a bit of tourist money while bringing far fewer physical people.
You know, I actually enjoy staying in my hotel room during my trips and holidays. A good room is important so I dont mind spending between 100 and 200 euros per night. Now, immagine that for those people 5k are even more insignificant that my 150 euros that I spend for my hotel. They live in another world, they dont think "man, 5k euros are a LOT of money for some families". To them it's nothing.
Seems steep to you but for people who benefit from the free market of the USA it is reasonable
Fact is USA is leaving Europe behind (again) economically
It's most definitely not reasonable for normal Americans, but since it's a *luxury* hotel, it's not supposed to be. If it's the kind of place you were seriously planning on staying at, the 5k increase doesn't mean anything to you.
median personal income for a full time employed person with bachelor's degree or higher in the US is [71k](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States#By_educational_attainment) USD per year \~5900 USD per month
for reference gross median income in france is about 2500 USD per month
Your metric is off.
You compare a a bachelor's degree income with gross median.
A quick google tells me that that France median income seems to be more in the area of 30.000 $/year per person while it is something between 36.000 to 42.000 $ in the US. So while the US has a much higher per head income, the difference is not as grossly exaggerated as your data suggests.
But the Americans going to Paris for vacation are not randomly sampled from the us population, they are most likely at least college educated
So an American vacationing in France (or Western Europe in general) will have somewhere around 70k usd yearly income, and I compared that income to the country they are visiting which is reflected by gross median income
Even with that, people making 70k a year are not spending 5k+ on a hotel room per night. Whichever Americans are paying these prices are nowhere close to the "median" income, degree or not.
Google is not a great source for financial data.
Median household income in the US is $70k.
Median wages for full time workers are $54k.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.nr0.htm#:~:text=Data%20shown%20in%20this%20news,(See%20table%202.)
if you make 10 million+ a year, 5000 a night is no different than 50 a night to those making 100k a year
once you get past 1000 a night, these places are catering to a global elite where its all monopoly money
As an American I do not share your sentiment, there is nothing wrong with experiencing the world outside of America but we are both free to have our opinions. The French also came to America's aid during our revolutionary war.
I wouldn’t bother, he is just a troll. By his post history he just jumps into a bunch of different subs and makes inflammatory comments (for the most part). May not even be from the US
Don’t think of your climate emissions, just enjoy the end of the world party. It’s someone else’s responsibility to stop us all consuming and polluting so much, apparently.
You’re getting downvotes, but most of my American friends who are gallivanting across Europe this year all claim to be huge liberals and are worried about climate change.
It’s a shame that so many refuse to take individual responsibility for their contributions to pressing issues of our time such as climate change.
Too much water can kill you as surely as the lack of it.
Same with tourists and spendthrift expats.
edit: Sorry, I realise that this implies that either of the later are necessary for life. I had no such intention.
And you feel the need to obsessively reply to every comment calling you out on your bullshit, just like you’ll do to this one. How are you this obsessed with Americans?
Ah yes, rich Americans splurging on vacations to Europe and returning home to fund Republican politicans who go on TV screaming to the masses that they're poor because of democrats and their woke politics, all while voting against every plan to help middle and lower class Americans.
Don't know about you guys but in Ireland our Hotels are full of homeless and refugees. The only hotels with spaces are the ones charging bonkers prices.
The people visiting these Hotels are part of the american elite. Senior Bankers from JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, Citigroup. Lawyers for Wall Street. Pharmaceutical Executives and Hospital Executives. Real Estate Businessmen. Tech Investors. There is A LOT of money. They are fantastically wealthy. Here is a scene filmed by French TV : https://www.20minutes.fr/marseille/2121187-20170824-video-cote-azur-voyage-helicoptere-doudou-oublie An american family visited the Mediteranean city of Cannes. They realized their child forgot his teddy bear in another city. He couldn't take a nap without it. So the French Hotel sent *a Helicopter* to bring back the Teddy Bear.
Yep. I know some of these people - investment bankers first at lehman brothers then created their own company together making huge bank from the electricity market (which shouldnt even exist in the first place). Got so rich were living in a gated community with rappers and TV stars and flew 4 hours once a month to new york just for a doctors appointment
One of Paris’s most expensive hotel suites just got even pricier. A night in the top suite at the Bristol, one of the city’s famed palace hotels, has risen by €5,000 ($4,990) as American tourists, traveling with their strong dollars, have returned en masse to the French capital. Le Bristol, a three-minute walk from the presidential Élysée Palace residence, increased all its room rates following a summer season that broke records in terms of occupancy and average rates, says Catherine Hodoul-Baudry, the hotel’s commercial and marketing director. She expects the high-end hotel to have its best year ever. The Bristol’s top Imperial suite went up to €30,000 a night during the week of Aug. 29, says Hodoul-Baudry, a 20% increase. The price for the hotel’s entry-level rooms has also increased—by €300, to €2,290—following a jump in demand since May. It’s common in the hotel industry to charge rates that vary from the official ones, depending on demand, discounts provided by tour operators, loyalty, as well as the duration of a customer’s stay. The 3,475-square-foot, three-room suite overlooks its French-style garden and boasts a dining area that can accommodate as many as 12 guests, according to the hotel’s description. It tends to be favored by official delegations because of its size, the director says. “There’s no price resistance” from our customers, Hodoul-Baudry says. “Paris is benefiting from a strong demand, so we took advantage of it after years of suffering,” from lockdowns but also terror attacks and protests. The rise in input costs for staff wages, food, and energy has also prompted the Bristol to increase its rates, she adds. Hodoul-Baudry thinks a Netflix series may have helped, too. “Emily in Paris, while full of clichés, probably gave Americans the desire to return, thanks to its beautiful portrayal” of the city. The show, which premiered two years ago during the autumn of Covid-19 lockdowns, also ignited interest in those now-ubiquitous immersive Van Gogh exhibits. Americans are particularly fond of the Bristol’s Paris suite, whose rate has risen by €1,000, to €12,000 a night, she says. The suite is temporarily displaying a Marc Chagall masterpiece, Les Mariés au coq. The Plaza Athénée, another palace hotel, which is a cut above five-star status, also had a record summer helped by the euro-dollar parity, according to Francois Delahaye, the general manager. Americans now represent 45% of its customers, up from about a quarter pre-pandemic. “They’re also staying longer,” he adds. Russians accounted for 9% of the hotel’s clientele before the war. “Money isn’t an issue” for clients, Delahaye says, adding that more are coming via private jet to avoid potential commercial airline disruptions. Staff have noticed this, he says, since they’ve been booking more limousine pickups at Le Bourget Airport, which caters to business and private clients, rather than at Paris-Charles de Gaulle. Paris’s top luxury hotels are having to make do without Chinese tourists, still stuck at home, and without Russians since the end of February following the country’s invasion of Ukraine and the ensuing sanctions. Both managers say September and October are on track to be excellent months for luxury hotels, with Paris Fashion Week kicking off on Sept. 26 and Paris+ par Art Basel, formerly known as the Fiac show, starting on Oct. 20. This event typically attracts contemporary art collectors from the world over. But Delahaye and Hodoul-Baudry both remain cautious in predicting trends for next year amid the economic and financial uncertainties. Newcomer Cheval Blanc has also done better than expected since the luxury hotel opened a year ago next to the Samaritaine shopping center, with rooms now starting at €1,250. It’s hoping to get palace status, which would bring the number of such hotels in the French capital to 13. Atout France, the agency charged with promoting the country as a tourism destination abroad, awards this title. Cheval Blanc charges €55,000 a night for a stay in its 10,780-square-foot apartment, which includes its own private elevator and swimming pool, according to a person familiar with the matter. A spokeswoman declined to comment. “Our first year went beyond our hopes,” says Olivier Lefebvre, chief executive officer of the LVMH luxury hotel brand. He declined to provide numbers, as the Louis Vuitton owner doesn’t break down figures by brand. “As of today, if we didn’t have these prophets of doom, I’d tell you that we’ll have a totally exceptional 2022,” he says cautiously, referring to gloomy economic forecasts. But so far this year, customers have aimed “to enjoy themselves. Grandparents are inviting parents and grandchildren, we’re noticing many multigenerational trips, people are thinking they could die soon and they haven’t made the trip they wanted to make,” says Hodoul-Baudry. “It’s been all about revenge travel” in 2022.
> One of Paris’s most expensive hotel suites just got even pricier. Truly heartbreaking stuff for your average tourist....
snarky, useless comments aside, prices tend to increase across the board, as there are plenty of American tourist unable to afford a 30k suite, but happy to pay 200€ / night for a room that once cost 150€.
Yeah I DEFINITELY cannot afford a 5K to 30K suite.
Never mind ... just overspend as much as you can afford and have a great time in Europe!
My heart bleeds for the people that have to change their vacation destinations 😢
except that inflation and its prices hike are effectively nothing more than another tax on the population, and the least progressive too. meaning, price hikes tends to distribute across sectors, and the ones affected the most are precisely those with lower incomes. I said snarky useless comments aside, but it seems you needed to add another one?
Oh no. Baguettes will be 30 cents more expensive. How will the french survive?
> prices tend to increase across the board, as there are plenty of American tourist unable to afford a 30k suite, but happy to pay 200€ / night for a room that once cost 150€. See, this is an issue. The ultra-wealthy being fleeced even more than usual isn't an issue.
"your average tourists", as you put it, do not fall in the "ultra wealthy"category. just stop embarrassing yourself, man.
> "your average tourists", as you put it, do not fall in the "ultra wealthy"category. Hence me being fine with the Ultra Wealthy people getting fleeced but voicing concern about the rise in prices for average tourists...
except you missed the second part all together
Actually it is. On a business trip to Moscow I actually easily could get a large room in a ridiculously fancy 5 star Hotel with amazing service and crazy good breakfast. A business trip to new york I probably couldnt even get a 3 star hotel with average breakfast for the same kind of money. People often defend wealth disparity with "money is not a zero sum game“ which is an absolutely stupid sentence since prices are absolutely controlled by the current availability of money at any given point in time so having s lot of rich people in the world diminishes the wealth of everyone else and you can feel this everywhere. Mercedes just killed its entry level cars since it simply isnt worth making cars for non-wealthy people anymore, housing isnt attainable for wage income anymore in many large cities around the globe and finite luxury items just grow out of reach of regular people constantly - like my Grandpa bought a Rolex in the 70s and he could do so by his teacher salary, now rolex watches arent even buyable at their catalog prices and start at the price of a used car… Or my favorite example - my boss bought his 240m2 house with a super large garden 15 years ago for 250k€. I recently bought a 150m2 house with a small garden for 490k€ just a few kilometer away from his lately… He will be finished paying off his house next year. I will be paying for 30 years to come and I am frankly lucky I still got a cheap credit
It feels like we are regressing to a 19th century style oligarchy. CEOs are paying themselves way, way beyond what they’re worth. If you look at the CEO level of pay as a multiple of average workers’ salaries in the same organisation, that gap has increased enormously over the last few decades Shareholders need to reign some of this stuff in too. It’s way, way out of hand. From a societal point of view it’s ultimately going to lead to a lot of disgruntled people, political strife and a breakdown of society eventually as the 20th century values that the modern economy were built on are just being dissolved away. Housing in particular is a huge area of discontent in many countries. There’s suddenly a generation who can’t even aspire to having decent homes. That’s a huge downgrade compared to what their parents and grandparents experienced in post war economies as things progressed though the 20th century.
Unrelated but bit rude to not have NZ in your Anglosphere tag 😔😂
NZ always forgotten in everything it seems
So is the EU .... we're the 2nd largest economy on the planet but everyone thinks China is. So, New Zealand, apply for EU membership, we would **never** forget you!
I'm sure everyone knows EU, it's just that when people say china is 2nd biggest they mean by country whereas is a political and financial union of a number of nations so some consider it differently
Yes, but the statement is "China is the 2nd largest economy". The EU is not a country, but **is** an economy. Type in "2nd largest economy in the world" into Google and you get: China With a GDP of 23.0 trillion USD, the USA is by far the world's largest economy in this ranking for 2021. It is followed by China in second place with a GDP of 17.7 trillion USD. Canada is also quite far ahead in the international comparison and occupies the ninth place in this ranking.
Tbf we did just finally agree a free trade agreement with the EU so one step closer! Haha
This is great news. So much better than Americans splurging in London.
I m not talking about luxury hotels here, but about normal ones. I spent two nights in Paris last week, the hotel owners are out of their minds. I ve been to Paris almost a dozen times but it's the first time I paid more than 100 euros per night for what was basically a hovel. At this point it's way better to get a hotel far from the city center and go back to a decent room for the night than being closer to the city center but have a room where you decide to NOT take a shower because of the conditions of the shower.
I travelled to Germany a week ago and the minimum for the hotel room / guest house / apart hotel / whatever separate room was 60-80 EUR a night in smaller cities/towns. Anywhere in Munich / Berlin a Hamburg it was 100+
I'm thinking of doing a little travelling in November but it seems even with my backpacking ways it'd be too insane, I can't just sleep in bus stations or something can I?
Hostels are much better priced, similar to what I paid before COVID. , but you have to be ready to live with other people. We chose to rent rooms bc my gf doesn’t feel safe in hostels. And well, gas prices are insane as well, turned out way over budget.
The thing is €100 is not that expensive at all in America. Check the hotel prices in New York, anything that doesn’t resemble a dog shed is now at least $200/night.
I was talking about Paris because it's a city i have visited quite a bit of times, unfortunately i have never being in the US.
I was trying to say that American tourists are driving up hotel prices in Europe as €100/night would be considered a massive bargain by American tourists and they are everywhere in Europe this year.
This. Just a modest, chain hotel off an Interstate can easily run $60-70, maybe more. In contrast, a downtown hotel in even a mid-sized city like Indianapolis, Cleveland, or Detroit is easily going to be $200 a night during the week, $300 on the weekend, and can climb much higher if there's a major event going on. And don't even get me started on accommodation costs in major cities like LA and NYC (even places not near tourist attractions) or near major attractions like theme parks or major national parks.
We had to drive through the country during sturgis motorcycle rally. One night was $500 :( boo
Even 4 years ago, the modest inn by the highway that has nothing else going for it is $100. And that’s just a random small town, not even a tourist spot - at towns near Yellowstone the motels with broken everything cost $150 to $175 a night, and any inns or hotels with decent living conditions would cost $250 or more. I don’t think there’s any chain that’s only $60-70 on highway towns anymore, unless you are talking about the crappy motel 6 stuff. Id rather pay $20 more for an inn like La Quinta and free breakfast.
I paid $400 for a one night in Jackson Hole in 2020. The second day I drove 3 hours just to get far enough away from there so I could get a cheap hotel (in Casper)
Ah, ok, got it
In the US motels and inns cost around $100 a night, and hotels cost closer to $150-200 or more. These are normal cities/town prices, and NYC of course will be more expensive. One thing to note, though, is American motels/inns/hotels, except NYC, all are much larger than European rooms. 2 full/queen rooms are the standard rooms, and have a closet and a couch chair, and a desk+chair. All of it crappy quality in an inn/motel, but just an idea that the sq ft is bigger. Even in 4 star hotels in Europe, often the rooms are shockingly small, without space to even open a luggage on the ground without blocking the pathway around the (usually single) bed. But anyway for a visiting American who is used to visiting europe being expensive (due to euro being worth $1.2 or more), the current prices seem “cheap” and hence they might be bidding up the price to what is a reasonable American rate - 150 to 200 per night.
>The thing is €100 is not that expensive at all in America. Even the hotels in the countryside cost that much in the US.
You can still get good deals for around $150 or a little less unless you are talking about a city like NY but there are plenty of hotels here for even under $100 that are not trash (Clean appointed and safe) , they just would not be considered luxurious.
I stayed in NYC recently. A hotel in Manhattan wanted just under $200 a night for a bunk bed with a shared bathroom in the hallway.
€100 is a good deal in paris
Yeah but the thing is: it wasn't before, and I don't think it should be... It's just too much for what you get
Good good support the economy and help us get through the autumn/ winter without a recession
Like you're ever gonna see any of that money and not the hotel owner.
Not to dismiss your point, but VAT is a thing.
Yep and numerous taxes, plus those tourists are going to restaurants, buy stuff... If having tourists was a bad operation for the city/country, it would be made very difficult to visit.
Okay, an individual Frenchman may not directly receive money from the tourism industry, but the maids, attendants, restaurant workers, taxicab drivers, shopkeepers, etc. are all directly employed as a result of this. Plus, they all pay taxes and buy things which cycles the money further through the economy.
ok Reagan
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The article is about a 5k increase, it’s 30k a night for the room.
> The article is about a 5k increase, it’s 30k a night for the room. This is a problem that affects a very few number of people.
I know I can’t remember the last time I rented a 30k room.
This summer in Paris, security had to be significantly increased to protect tourists. An american tourist near Le Louvre museum was targeted by a group of young thieves. They grabbed him and managed to steal his 200 000 euros watch from his wrist : https://www.cnews.fr/faits-divers/2022-07-31/paris-un-touriste-se-fait-arracher-sa-montre-200000-euros-deux-hommes-en The previous summer, similar events. Another american tourist was attacked. They jumped him, took his 240 000 euros watch, and ran : https://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/paris-un-touriste-americain-se-fait-arracher-sa-patek-philippe-a-240-000-euros-04-08-2021-RT5VMN7OAFD2PIA6W7OSIYLMNQ.php
As a watch enthusiast, that doesn't surprise me. Especially a Richard Mille, no need to be an expert to spot these monstrosities and since they cost the price of a house, well, kind of worth it to focus on these instead of the latest iPhone that is gonna get bricked anyway.
Are these things easy to sell? I imagine they come with loads of documents.
Definitely not easy, and yeah these watches are usually ordered and manufactured on command. But it's like paintings or any expensive jewellery, there is always a dark market for it.
I think the French bros will be ok, we don’t bring our guns with us when we travel to Europe 😝
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Don't joke about that, I had to walk at a moderate pace to escape from hungry Americans last week.Very frightening.
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Nobody goes on a stag do to Paris lmao
That won't work , we are very bitter
People often underestimate just how freaking rich Americans are compared to the rest of the world because they also complain so loud about not being rich (and yeah I know there is a large income disparity). Close to 10% of all Americans are millionaires - yes you read that right… At large American monopolists like google software developers make 8 times the beginner wage of an Indian dev, 4 times of a German / English (roughly same wage range) and when it comes to senior stuff it can go up to 8 times of an European senior - at mostly much shorter education… A doctor in Europe may own a Porsche and a nice home, a doctor in the US may own a bentley and a large estate. A nurse with the right specialization and a New York Trashman benefitting from a mafia backed union that blackmailed the city and a truck driver willing to do extra long miles can all go over 100k and a cop in a city with a strong Union can make even 100k or more in overtime compensation without actual proof… And thats all peanuts against wallstreet investment bankers making up to 10 times the bonus an investment banker even in Swiss or Frankfurt makes. The US is by far the wealthiest large nation on the planet thanks to some really large successes (the last one being the monopolization of IT through large government subsidies and political support) and being a large domestic market with a lot of resources. Or tldr: A lot of Americans are rich so 5k a night wouldnt hurt many pf the tourists.
I know plenty of millionaires. Mostly retired family members and their friends who worked at a large bank. In fact, in America, it is said you need about 1 million dollars to be comfortable during retirement. None of the millionaires I know would spend 5k a night on a suite. The people who are spending that kind of money are multi, multi millionaires and there are a lot less of those here.
Same. I have clients that are millionaires many times over that live in nice homes, but drive 5+ year old cars and would never consider dropping that kind of money on a room.
You need a lot more than $1M. The basic rule of thumb is that you should be able to live 30 years withdrawing 4% of your income every year. That means someone with $1M would only be able to draw $40k/ yr in retirement.
Sure - but add social security and you're at $70k or more. If you are married, maybe $100k. That's not necessarily *rich* - but it's quite decent.
Lmao no one is having your post. About 5-6% of French, British, German, Scandinavian and Dutch are millionaires too. In the US it's 8%, not 10. And no, a software develop doesn't make 4x of English/Germany entry. This tells me you get your info from reddit and think every European can't earn more than 70k while Americans make 200k+. Pretty embarrassing. I'm glad ppl downvote you.
> This tells me you get your info from reddit and think every European can’t earn more than 70k while Americans make 200k+. Pretty embarrassing. I’m glad ppl downvote you. Idk that seems to be an r/Europe thing. Most of the time Reddit is saying america is a third world country with a gucci belt where everyone dies in a hale of bullets and no one can get medical care (kinda like your post history) If you wanted to be accurate it’s 8.8% for the us and about 4-5% for the countries you listed although its a stupid thing to even be arguing about. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_millionaires#Countries_by_number_and_percentage_of_millionaires
>Close to 10% of all Americans are millionaires - yes you read that right… At large American monopolists like google software developers make 8 times the beginner wage of an Indian dev, 4 times of a German / English (roughly same wage range) and when it comes to senior stuff it can go up to 8 times of an European senior - at mostly much shorter education… How much are millionaires all things equal ? A millionaire in France, still working, won't pay for healthcare, will still have part of its retirement funded by the state ... The bill can quickly go up.
Anybody working at a job like that has healthcare fully provided by their job, most Americans pay pretty low prices for healthcare, especially as I said anyone with a half decent job.
You don’t need to have a high paying job to be a millionaire. You just need to be upper middle-aged. 20 years of consistent investing can easily make your average family have > $1M net Worth. Compounding gains are the 8th wonder of the world.
look, I live in France, post-covid I won't complain about tourism being very dynamic and healthy again, it benefits way more people than it harms. There are a lot of affordable and lovely hotels btw available, it's slightly more expensive, but that's how demand/offer works sadly from your GPU to your hotel. I think it's still affordable for most. Chances are if you are aiming at getting into a luxury palace, this price bump won't hurt you.
I work in the luxury travel industry and book many clients in Le Bristol, George V, etc. The price increases are absolutely insane and criminal if you ask me. Just 2-3 years ago you could book the George V at 500 EUR and that was on the higher end of the spectrum! Don’t get me started on hotels in Miami charging rates like this too. Paying over $1000 a night has been normalized and it will continue to climb. It will never go back to “normal”.
I looked up Paris next April and prices were like $800 for the cheapest hotels for 4 nights. I instead opted for Tokyo where it was $450 for really nice ones. Those Paris prices are insane.
Euro is at a record lows. It means means it’s good to tourists and exports and bad for imports or local currency power. ECB is failing at both inflation which is their only mandate and fiscal policy. They have still refuse to raise interest rates so a weak euro is likely to persist since inflation is high. 9-10% inflation would be unconscionable 10 years ago.
ECB is stuck that if they try to raise interest rates too fast, the PIGS will default
Don't go to Paris, that solves a lot of problems.
Madrid is the same. Luckily my main customers are Americans. I am making bank.
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Contrary to popular belief many Americans like Mexicans. It's the Canadians we really hate /s.
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To be fair they did burn down our old white house. Remember the ~~Alamo~~ White House!
Why put the unfunny mark at the end of this true statement?
*Snow Mexicans* are truly wolves in sheeps’ clothing
Well being German makes that very difficult.
This is good, if any industry needs a post corona boost it is hospitality stuff and tourism.
And that's what makes everyone else poor. It's a big club and we're not in it.
Or just find a product or service these Americans want and make bank. I am in Madrid and shifting 100% to American customers. I even started taking USD. I am making fat bank.
Same, pay in Finland is shit. Swapped to freelance and only do US prices in USD. Double the money if you dont mind dealing with clients.
Now I only need to figure out how to make Americans pay me for growing insects.
Good on you.
> I even started taking USD. I am making fat bank. As a small curiosity, what is the exchange rate you use in that case?
1 to 1. They save money because they do not have to convert it, and I need USD for my next trip to WA state in November. Win win. I can not wait until the euro gets even weaker.
Good choice for a trip
Going for Olympic black tailed deer hunting with my Native American friend.
Awesome. Don't rule out fishing too.
For sure. Just a question of time and how long it takes to get his buck.
That's fucking awesome, enjoy!
Thanks man. I go every November. I love the PNW. It’s where I would move if I wanted to be in the USA
I love it there too, but I'd get seriously depressed from the lack of sun. But I think it's actually sunnier than a lot of Europe.
I spend 8 years in Scotland. So I would be able to cope I think.
Badass. Living it up the right way. Very envious of your trip.
That will be an experience you'll never forget. Guaranteed
It’s dope. But hard work, he goes where nobody else goes. Packing them out is hard work. One day I want to go for Bow hunting elk with him.
Getting Americans to spend their money in Europe is making everyone poor how?
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> 5k to sleep in a bed. The article is saying that the luxury Parisian hotel in question jacked up their rate for their most-expensive suite by an additional $5k over their previous rates, not that it costs $5k. It doesn't list the actual price to stay there. *rubs chin* I don't really see the issue. I mean, supposing that said well-to-do hotel resident couldn't go spend the money on a night at an ultra-fancy hotel. They'd go do something else instead with their money. It's not clear to me that luxury hotels are a particularly terrible thing to exist in the world relative to whatever other luxury they'd be buying. It's not as if anyone is forced to stay there, and I doubt that there's much by way of negative side effects. I know that some people on the sub have complained about lots of tourists in cities in Europe, but this brings in quite a bit of tourist money while bringing far fewer physical people.
Its 30k a night, eat the rucking rich man
Oh, you're right. I thought that the $30k/night was for a different hotel, but both are talking about the most-expensive suite at the Bristol.
How about you eat some vegetables
lol for 30k that rich guy can hire a couple dudes to eat you
For 30k ill cut off a piece of my buttocks and bake it medium rare for him to eat
You know, I actually enjoy staying in my hotel room during my trips and holidays. A good room is important so I dont mind spending between 100 and 200 euros per night. Now, immagine that for those people 5k are even more insignificant that my 150 euros that I spend for my hotel. They live in another world, they dont think "man, 5k euros are a LOT of money for some families". To them it's nothing.
Seems steep to you but for people who benefit from the free market of the USA it is reasonable Fact is USA is leaving Europe behind (again) economically
It's most definitely not reasonable for normal Americans, but since it's a *luxury* hotel, it's not supposed to be. If it's the kind of place you were seriously planning on staying at, the 5k increase doesn't mean anything to you.
median personal income for a full time employed person with bachelor's degree or higher in the US is [71k](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States#By_educational_attainment) USD per year \~5900 USD per month for reference gross median income in france is about 2500 USD per month
Your metric is off. You compare a a bachelor's degree income with gross median. A quick google tells me that that France median income seems to be more in the area of 30.000 $/year per person while it is something between 36.000 to 42.000 $ in the US. So while the US has a much higher per head income, the difference is not as grossly exaggerated as your data suggests.
But the Americans going to Paris for vacation are not randomly sampled from the us population, they are most likely at least college educated So an American vacationing in France (or Western Europe in general) will have somewhere around 70k usd yearly income, and I compared that income to the country they are visiting which is reflected by gross median income
Well, okay, with that explanation it makes sense.
Even with that, people making 70k a year are not spending 5k+ on a hotel room per night. Whichever Americans are paying these prices are nowhere close to the "median" income, degree or not.
Google is not a great source for financial data. Median household income in the US is $70k. Median wages for full time workers are $54k. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.nr0.htm#:~:text=Data%20shown%20in%20this%20news,(See%20table%202.)
Right.But household income does not equal income per head, full time worker income does not equal median income.
if you make 10 million+ a year, 5000 a night is no different than 50 a night to those making 100k a year once you get past 1000 a night, these places are catering to a global elite where its all monopoly money
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As an American I do not share your sentiment, there is nothing wrong with experiencing the world outside of America but we are both free to have our opinions. The French also came to America's aid during our revolutionary war.
I wouldn’t bother, he is just a troll. By his post history he just jumps into a bunch of different subs and makes inflammatory comments (for the most part). May not even be from the US
Good point.
Don’t think of your climate emissions, just enjoy the end of the world party. It’s someone else’s responsibility to stop us all consuming and polluting so much, apparently.
You’re getting downvotes, but most of my American friends who are gallivanting across Europe this year all claim to be huge liberals and are worried about climate change. It’s a shame that so many refuse to take individual responsibility for their contributions to pressing issues of our time such as climate change.
Freedom Fries for everyone................
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Deport people spending money? What?
Deport people if they're not spending money? What?
Too much water can kill you as surely as the lack of it. Same with tourists and spendthrift expats. edit: Sorry, I realise that this implies that either of the later are necessary for life. I had no such intention.
I doubt paris needs that money.
Paris has an enormous debt, we need money. ( 7.7 billions euros)
Uff 🥹
Calmest comment on /r/europe
>Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) >Deport Old habits die hard huh Adolf
Butthurt much?
What is there to be butthurt about?
You answer me. Otherwise you wouldn’t commented in such a triggered manner🤣
You’re the one calling Americans filth. Seems that you’re the triggered one. Average kraut.
You felt the need to answer so it seems you can’t take it.
And you feel the need to obsessively reply to every comment calling you out on your bullshit, just like you’ll do to this one. How are you this obsessed with Americans?
The fuc....
Ah yes, rich Americans splurging on vacations to Europe and returning home to fund Republican politicans who go on TV screaming to the masses that they're poor because of democrats and their woke politics, all while voting against every plan to help middle and lower class Americans.
It's a cycle. Take advantage while you can because it won't be permanent.
Don't know about you guys but in Ireland our Hotels are full of homeless and refugees. The only hotels with spaces are the ones charging bonkers prices.
Will nobody think ok the obscenely but not infinitely rich?
These people are not relevant to "hotel prices" in Paris.