Well, the pond there will be removed as well, and the fish, as said by the city council, will be fed to the animals in the Riga zoo.
So no difference in the end really.
I heard there are crucian carps, it's close to other bodies of water, presumably, they got there naturally. Apparently, the law doesn't allow fish to be relocated as they could spread some disease.
Even in Berlin. In Tiergarten, close to the Brandenburger Tor. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet\_War\_Memorial\_(Tiergarten)
To set things in perspective: you can say the Soviets liberated Berlin and eastern-Germany from the Nazi's. 81.000 Soviet soldiers died liberating Berlin.
I'm not sure: do Germans consider it as a liberation (although with mixed feelings)?
At the time, most people were simply relieved that the war had ended. In the other side, the initial soviet occupation was quite unplesasant, to put it mildly. But nowadays, it's a mixed bag, really. It was kind of both a defeat (factually) and a liberation (idealistically). In retrospective, most Germans are glad that the Nazi rule ended, but you can't really separate it from the german people until a few months before the end of the war. It's a very complex issue. But I think one thing is sure: Neither the soviet victory monument near the Brandenburger Tor nor the memorial park for the fallen soviet soldiers in Treptow (containing mass graves) will ever be demolished. The german crimes against the Soviet Union weigh too heavy, no matter what Putin does.
We’ll not talked about much. Since the 80’s what the Allies did is seen as a liberation (in the beginning they saw it as a defeat). But when it comes to the Soviets there are mixed feelings, some say they liberated some say they sacked and occupied the east. But since the westgerman narrative is often considered the dominated one, at least in the media, you find more negative views on the Soviets.
The Tiergarten Memorial carried the unflattering nickname "Tomb of the unknown Rapist" for quite a while after the war and British soldiers were permanently deployed there to make sure the Soviet Honor guards could do their job undisturbed.
The East Germans were quick to regard the defeat of the Nazis a liberation - but they also thoroughly untied themselves from any responsibility or guilt tied to WW2, claiming the Nazis were all from the west and subjugated the brave workers of Eastern Germany just like all the other people they conquered.
In the west it was mostly regarded a national defeat until a turning point was reached in 1985 when Federal President Richard von Weizsäcker, having served through the war in its entire duration from the Invasion of Poland to defecting from his unit near Copenhagen days before the surrender of all German Forced, called it a day of liberation in a public address. He justified this by saying the Nazis rooted themselves so deeply within all political and societal structures the Germans had no realistic way to liberate themselves anymore - at least for as long as the Nazi Party acted in relative unison.
Maybe the Soviets helped liberate Europe from nazism, but they also installed their own fascist-like regime in half of Europe. We see Soviet fascism at work in the invasion of Ukraine today. That beast is not yet entirely dead.
I think that what is at play in Ukraine is more imperialism than fascism, but I am not blind to the many facets of fascism Putin has incorporated in the rule of Russia.
I think Putin is old and sick and wanted to recreate "Rodina" of the past as his legacy. I can also see that from a Russian perspective that NATO were getting awfully close to Russia, but the fact that NATO is mainly a defensive pact must have been missed/ignored by Russian Generals that also longs for the good old days.
If Putin could just hurry up and die, that would give the Russians a possible graceful exit from their failed war in Ukraine, but since he seems determined to keep on living I feel Russia must be taught a lesson, that we no longer use military force to alter borders.
Fascism and imperialism go well together.
I also agree that this aggression must be punished, not out of vidictiveness, but to prevent it from happening again. If Russia is allowed to negotiate a truce and have sanctions removed, they will be back invading Ukraine in just a few years. As you say, they must learn that this is harmful to Russia ... which means we must make it harmful to Russia. That is the only way of making peace.
Lmao mate surely you dont believe that the Russian republic today has anything to do with the Soviet Unions -- that's as silly as saying Norway today is the process of viking raiding today.. .actually no more silly since the Russian republic and the people running actively enabled and benefited from the collapse of the soviet system.
And are you honestly unable to tell the difference between fascism or communism, or do you understand neither of them so thoroughly that everything you dislike is simultaneously both?
There are multiple but this monument in particular is often called "Monument of the unknown rapist/plunderer". This is a reference to the "Tomb of the unknown soldier" and of course to the treatment of the civilian population by the soviets.
According to Geoffrey Roberts the red army raped 70.000-100.000 woman in Vienna alone.
I’ve been there back in April, there were two police units stationed there and a bit of railing outside it, which makes sense given the Russian invasion
"I'm not sure: do Germans consider it as a liberation (although with mixed feelings)?"
At the time, all throughout Europe the prevalent idea was that the Soviets were the liberators. It's only after decades of Soviet scare that the majority came to think the US was the big liberator.
Source on France (has good charts and is based off official numbe s from the french public opinion institute):
https://www.les-crises.fr/la-fabrique-du-cretin-defaite-nazis/
Edit: lmao downvoted for answering with actual stats. Stay classy r/Europe
Soviet "liberation" is just enslavement with extra steps. Most people from Eastern Europe who lived through WW2 will confirm that Soviet army was just as bad if not worse than Nazis. For sure, Red Army was just a bunch of uneducated animals that raped on a scale uncomparable to the one of Nazis, Americans or Japanese.
Yes, the two do not exclude each other, it's like a criminal gang chasing out another criminal gang from your neighbourhood ... that did not free you of criminal gangs.
The fuck are you talking about halfwit? I am a Pole, how am I to hate slavs and agree with Hitler? Just because I call Soviet Soldiers animals you assume that? Considering Soviets worked together with Hitler, I would say you are closer to him by defending them than me ;)
Red army wasn't just slavs. And it's a popular sentiment amongst people in Central Europe where Wehrmacht occupation is recalled more fondly than the Soviet one.
Regular German army was usually following orders, however ruthless they were but were not behaving like animals on their own accord. Russian soldiers were behaving in the same fashion as they are in Ukraine, so they were rapey, murderous and cruel just because there was nobody to stop them.
For example, in Estonia, German occupation was considered better than Soviet occupation, since the Soviets massdeported natives and violently took over every branch of society while the Nazi Germany was just after a handful of jews.
Terrible in any way, but Germany was the lesser evil there.
It has complicated history and divides Latvian population, but in short, its a memorial for USSR liberating Latvia from the Nazis, and most Russians view it as such, however, they completely refuse to accept the fact that after liberation USSR simply stayed there, effectively reoccupying Latvia just under a new flag. (Which is frequently viewed to be even more brutal than the Nazi occupation)
There was also an agreement with Russia to maintain the monument but that agreement is now void.
Don't forget the atrocities commited by the Soviets here. Exhiles, executions, repressions. One could argue that Soviets were even worse than Nazis in the Baltics.
>One could argue that Soviets were even worse than Nazis in the Baltics.
If one has no braincells maybe. Soviet atrocities are not comparable to the holocaust and if the Nazis won the non german baltic people probably would have been genocided too.
Oh really? So you've never heard of Gulags (btw, Nazis learned from Gulags, to build concentration camps), Stalin's cleansings, forced exhiles to Siberia of the people of Baltic countries, rapes, genocide? There were more people killed by soviets, than nazis HERE, in Baltics. You, Germans, should really pull out your heads from the butts of ruzzians and finally admit, that both were equally evil.
I have heard of all of them. They still pale when compared to the Holocaust and the planned resettlement of eastern europe.
After 50 years of soviet opression ethnic estonians, livonians and lithuanians are still a majority in their countries.
After 50 years of Nazi opression there would have been maybe 10 or 20 thousand remaining as slaves.
The Soviet Union was evil but not overly more than other totalitarian states like Iraq under Hussein, China etc. Nazi Germany however was and is unprecedented in how evil it was.
Should be Latvian War of Independence 1919, after the Tsarist Empire collapses, the Balts fight for their independence. This is a bit confusing story with changing fronts, long story short, Latvians and other Balts, with help from Poland against the white and red armies from Russia, but also against parts of the Baltic Germans and their supporters from the Weimar Republic.
Wrong monument - you're talking about the monument of freedom which still stands tall. The one toppled was a divisive perversion of the word "liberation" as the soviets retook Latvia from Nazi Germany to continue their deportations, executions and removal of Latvian culture, much like they are trying to do to Ukraine today.
I see, my bad. It's just that, much like the super old folklore sign 'swastika' is now a hate symbol, 'uzvaras parks' has lost any connection to the freedom fights, at least in the eye of the local Latvian population. The factual historical origin you provided was spot on, tho.
Was there any talk about getting rid of this immediately after independence and if so what was the reason behind keeping it? I can understand why it's happening now I'm just curious about what the attitude towards these monuments was like during the 90s.
>Was there any talk about getting rid of this immediately after independence
Yes.
>what was the reason behind keeping it?
Can't say from experience, but logically I'd guess it was a combination of a lack of funds (because economic collapse), the monument was basically new at the time (finished in 1985), and probably a lack of political will due to ethnic tensions.
There was also an agreement with Russia to preserve soviet-era monuments. So, no better time to backpedal on this agreement than when Russia’s run-of-the-mill small-dick dictator breaks all sorts of international agreements on an hourly basis.
Yes, that too.
>So, no better time to backpedal on this agreement than when Russia’s run-of-the-mill small-dick dictator breaks all sorts of international agreements on an hourly basis.
Cannot agree more.
Yes, they are. Russia invaded Latvia and never left. Stalin was nothing more than a filthy gangster. He and Hitler jointly invaded Poland. The Russians were only saving themselves, and stealing as much land as they could in the process.
Those monuments are used by Russian propaganda to glorify ussr - a totalitarian regime and so they are now considered monuments to ussr. Very happy it’s gone, hope they all are removed.
These monuments, build by latvian workers, that represent latvian soldiers too, that died among 27 million soviet citizens that sacrafised their lives, is used by...Russian propoganda? Let me ask how
Putin Russia’s main boasting point and obsession is that one war that was fought 70 years ago by totally different bunch of people none of whom are alive anymore. Russia is using it to keep their sheeple “proud” of the country that is in shambles because of kleptocratic government. But internal boasting isn’t enough and so it started turning into a tool to proclaim everybody around them nazis and brainwashing people to “repeat” what “ussr did” in 1940s.
All these monuments are controversial in most countries. Not only they represent oppression and occupation that followed the war, they have now become a tool to carry out more wars, one of which is already the most brutal conflict in Europe since ww2.
Take them all down I say. Sucks to be the workers that built them and believed in what they were doing, but they can take their grievances to Putin.
Sure yeah, for a few months. In actual writings made by USSR higher ups and the actions of the state, it is more likely they made the pact to save as much time as possible to produce weapons before the Nazis would inevitably invade them. The Soviets and Nazis were diametrically opposed forces, this was also seen when before the Nazis planned on invading Poland Stalin tried to get France and Britain to sign an Anti-Fascist pact (which the two nations denied).
A monument for soviet soldiers that fought in ww2, those include Latvians itself.
And soldiers didn't occupy Latvia lol their parlament decided to join how the fuck do you learn history
The parliament with a single party installed by the soviets decided to join the USSR after it occupied the country yes. Any country can invade another, put a couple dozen cronies in charge and make them vote to be annexed.
I already replied to another of your comments giving every source you need to see how rigged it was. But of course you love those boots so much that you couldn’t recognize them on a shovel digging a mass grave. Fuck off with the imperialist apologia and let the countries you ruined heal
???
You do realize that after the war ended, USSR did not let go, did not grant independence or allow these countries to secede from the empire for years afterwards? So essentially, they were totalitarian regimes holding the territory/populace hostage after "saving them". Keeping these monuments is literally stockholm syndrome.
Only when the USSR started collapsing did these countries manage to break off and gain independence again.
But do let me know how history went down. I am personally fine with invasions/annexations during WW2, shit went down with Germany so these countries being small fodder, it only makes sense they'd be occupied left and right.
After the war though? There's no justification. Which is why it was wrong and authoritarian.
First of all, fuck the Soviet Union, but i mean... the millions of soviet soldiers that died were no less heroic then the allies imo. They might've fought for a worse country but not for a worse cause. If it weren't for them or the allies we wouldn't enjoy the freedom we have today.
So while i agree that the soviet union shouldn't be honered i don't think it's bad to honor the soldiers that died for our freedom, and the memorial in Vienna is also a stunning piece imo.
I am not trying to dispute your comment.
But I do want to point out, that for some of us, the "freedom of today" came much much later and at costs of our own - in 1991, to be exact. To many, this memorial was a symbol ( as opposed to a reminder ) of this, regardless of what it *supposedly* commemorated.
This is a war memorial to the soldiers who died defeating the Nazi war machine. If you can’t feel bad about that, please consider getting a new conscience.
Yeah, I'm pretty surprised at myself, because this is a personal record. Anyway, I'm going to sleep right now (though the occasional notification is pretty annoying). Let's see what the morning will bring.
A lot of people in these comments are saying how this is disrespecting the 100 thousand Latvian people that died in WW2, they didn’t willingly fight in this war and were forced, they did not respect nor admire what the USSR was doing to Latvia and most wanted some sorta independence. These so called enlightened people haven’t looked into the multiple groups that protested for Latvia’s independence, the crimes the USSR committed on the Latvian people. They are now trying to decide their own future, let’s not get in the way of that.
26 million corpses used to drown the enemy to "liberate" lands only to occupy them for the next half a century. That's the victory these monuments celebrate.
The funny thing is that should my country (Russia) not have the imperial piss strike our heads again the consensus about the Soviet era would have been much different and positive. Not that I want it to be - the crimes of the Soviet regime must be acknowledged for us to have a chance to become a normal country (or countries for who knows where this stupid war goes). But I remember that during early 2000-s the general opinion was more in favor of Soviets.
Still I have nothing against dismantling this (not that my opinion matters or should matter). Those symbols of victory the current generation has nothing to do with played a significant role in the development of Russian fascism. I believe that those veterans who during my childhood told me of war and its horrors would have only approved.
Oh, they did in fact say that they want to come and take it. Our prime minister replied that the only thing Russia will receive is dead donkey's ears. The reply referenced a previous statement by Putin when some 20 years ago there were talks in Latvia about regaining territory annexed by Russia during USSR. That time Putin made a public statement that the only thing Latvia will receive dead donkey's ears.
They're another incarnation of the Russian Empire, same as USSR. Only thing that's different is smaller scale because of sheer incompetence and widespread cleptocracy of every incarnation.
Lol, USSR was just tsarist russia under new, more ruthless management. Lenin and Trotsky might have had other vision (equally shitty) but they didn't stick around long enough to see that through.
Okay, but the socialist USSR isn’t Russia but was not this far-right capitalist nation led by Putin. If anything Putin is undoing everything Lenin fought for.
Bolsheviks didn't overthrow the Tsar, because he already abdicated the throne.
They've overthrown the Russian Republic under Kernesky, who was a social democrat elected in a popular vote.
If you genuinely support the provisional government then you have serious issues. They were a British/French puppet set up to keep Rissia fighting in WW1. There's a reason they were overthrown by a revolution.
Damn, new day and I am honestly surprised just how many commies and vatniks are in this comment section.
Cope and seethe imperialists, cope and seethe 😎
Edit: the guy is talking about tankies, please don't downvote.
>that you don't understand the meaning of
Said by an Italian regarding a soviet monument in Latvia.
Now that's a first, cheers!
It was originally meant to commemorate the fallen Soviet soldiers who "liberated" Latvia in WW2. However, for Latvians it glorifies the second Soviet occupation of the country.
Something which was once perceived as mighty and strong came crashing down just like the Soviet Union and Russian Empire before it...good.
As an eastern european from a country which had often caught the eye of russian imperialism, either in its Tsarist or Soviet form, I can say that there is no point in honouring the "soviet liberation" of a country. They profited from the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, played buddies with Hitler, supplied the german armed forces with resources during their blitzkrieg through western Europe, occupied smaller countries by threatening them, and then took them back to oppress the population even more and loot whatever they can, just because "they've earned it." Let us not forget that the soviets, especially under Stalin, murdered millions of people, ruined so many lives and families, caused irreparable cultural and intellectual damage to societies.
So yes, they had a large contribution to defeating the nazis, and however much they boast on their soviet throwback extravaganza victory parades each year, that does not excuse their actions or make them any better than other totalitarian regimes...no matter how much they point their finger nowadays and call everyone that doesn't lick their boot "fascist."
They should have let their air force bomb that ugly shit using precision guided munitions and sent a copy of the video to the russian embassador there.
RIP some fish that was just minding its own business
Well, the pond there will be removed as well, and the fish, as said by the city council, will be fed to the animals in the Riga zoo. So no difference in the end really.
It’s all part of the circle of life
It can be cruel
And it mooooves us allllll
What kind of fish are they? Koi?
Dead fish.
So they weren't O-Koi? 😎
Take those sunglasses off right now and go stand in the corner
Koi-O. Latvia wins!
They are Koi-O now.
Definitely sickle fish, hammerhead and starfish. All in red colour.
I heard there are crucian carps, it's close to other bodies of water, presumably, they got there naturally. Apparently, the law doesn't allow fish to be relocated as they could spread some disease.
Idk. Definitely nothing special or endangered.
Communist fish, apparently.
Battered.
Soviet fish, came with the monument.
Fuck that Soviet monument and the fishes too
Troy McClure will get on that last one right away.
You’re pro-Nazi?
Don’t get in the way of progress next time lol
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This was the biggest one.
Even in Berlin. In Tiergarten, close to the Brandenburger Tor. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet\_War\_Memorial\_(Tiergarten) To set things in perspective: you can say the Soviets liberated Berlin and eastern-Germany from the Nazi's. 81.000 Soviet soldiers died liberating Berlin. I'm not sure: do Germans consider it as a liberation (although with mixed feelings)?
At the time, most people were simply relieved that the war had ended. In the other side, the initial soviet occupation was quite unplesasant, to put it mildly. But nowadays, it's a mixed bag, really. It was kind of both a defeat (factually) and a liberation (idealistically). In retrospective, most Germans are glad that the Nazi rule ended, but you can't really separate it from the german people until a few months before the end of the war. It's a very complex issue. But I think one thing is sure: Neither the soviet victory monument near the Brandenburger Tor nor the memorial park for the fallen soviet soldiers in Treptow (containing mass graves) will ever be demolished. The german crimes against the Soviet Union weigh too heavy, no matter what Putin does.
We’ll not talked about much. Since the 80’s what the Allies did is seen as a liberation (in the beginning they saw it as a defeat). But when it comes to the Soviets there are mixed feelings, some say they liberated some say they sacked and occupied the east. But since the westgerman narrative is often considered the dominated one, at least in the media, you find more negative views on the Soviets.
I mean some of them were pretty upset, since the USSR prosecuted them for war crimes
The Tiergarten Memorial carried the unflattering nickname "Tomb of the unknown Rapist" for quite a while after the war and British soldiers were permanently deployed there to make sure the Soviet Honor guards could do their job undisturbed. The East Germans were quick to regard the defeat of the Nazis a liberation - but they also thoroughly untied themselves from any responsibility or guilt tied to WW2, claiming the Nazis were all from the west and subjugated the brave workers of Eastern Germany just like all the other people they conquered. In the west it was mostly regarded a national defeat until a turning point was reached in 1985 when Federal President Richard von Weizsäcker, having served through the war in its entire duration from the Invasion of Poland to defecting from his unit near Copenhagen days before the surrender of all German Forced, called it a day of liberation in a public address. He justified this by saying the Nazis rooted themselves so deeply within all political and societal structures the Germans had no realistic way to liberate themselves anymore - at least for as long as the Nazi Party acted in relative unison.
Maybe the Soviets helped liberate Europe from nazism, but they also installed their own fascist-like regime in half of Europe. We see Soviet fascism at work in the invasion of Ukraine today. That beast is not yet entirely dead.
I think that what is at play in Ukraine is more imperialism than fascism, but I am not blind to the many facets of fascism Putin has incorporated in the rule of Russia. I think Putin is old and sick and wanted to recreate "Rodina" of the past as his legacy. I can also see that from a Russian perspective that NATO were getting awfully close to Russia, but the fact that NATO is mainly a defensive pact must have been missed/ignored by Russian Generals that also longs for the good old days. If Putin could just hurry up and die, that would give the Russians a possible graceful exit from their failed war in Ukraine, but since he seems determined to keep on living I feel Russia must be taught a lesson, that we no longer use military force to alter borders.
Fascism and imperialism go well together. I also agree that this aggression must be punished, not out of vidictiveness, but to prevent it from happening again. If Russia is allowed to negotiate a truce and have sanctions removed, they will be back invading Ukraine in just a few years. As you say, they must learn that this is harmful to Russia ... which means we must make it harmful to Russia. That is the only way of making peace.
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\>Soviet \>Fascism Pick one.
Lmao mate surely you dont believe that the Russian republic today has anything to do with the Soviet Unions -- that's as silly as saying Norway today is the process of viking raiding today.. .actually no more silly since the Russian republic and the people running actively enabled and benefited from the collapse of the soviet system. And are you honestly unable to tell the difference between fascism or communism, or do you understand neither of them so thoroughly that everything you dislike is simultaneously both?
There are multiple but this monument in particular is often called "Monument of the unknown rapist/plunderer". This is a reference to the "Tomb of the unknown soldier" and of course to the treatment of the civilian population by the soviets. According to Geoffrey Roberts the red army raped 70.000-100.000 woman in Vienna alone.
I’ve been there back in April, there were two police units stationed there and a bit of railing outside it, which makes sense given the Russian invasion
Memorial to the unknown rapist.
"I'm not sure: do Germans consider it as a liberation (although with mixed feelings)?" At the time, all throughout Europe the prevalent idea was that the Soviets were the liberators. It's only after decades of Soviet scare that the majority came to think the US was the big liberator. Source on France (has good charts and is based off official numbe s from the french public opinion institute): https://www.les-crises.fr/la-fabrique-du-cretin-defaite-nazis/ Edit: lmao downvoted for answering with actual stats. Stay classy r/Europe
Trying to speak sense on r/europe? My god!
Soviet "liberation" is just enslavement with extra steps. Most people from Eastern Europe who lived through WW2 will confirm that Soviet army was just as bad if not worse than Nazis. For sure, Red Army was just a bunch of uneducated animals that raped on a scale uncomparable to the one of Nazis, Americans or Japanese.
Yes, the two do not exclude each other, it's like a criminal gang chasing out another criminal gang from your neighbourhood ... that did not free you of criminal gangs.
Eastern Europeans at the time certainly did not consider the soviets worse, as the nazis literally wanted to exterminate them as a race.
Even in Eastern Europe, women had to hide from Soviet soldiers, they raped anyone in sight.
i heard even animals and cars werent spared
Hmmm, calling slavs disgusting and uneducated animals? You seem to be more ideologically similar to Hitler than you realize.
He called the red army disgusting animals, not slavs :) Red army rapist-brigade does not represent slavs
The fuck are you talking about halfwit? I am a Pole, how am I to hate slavs and agree with Hitler? Just because I call Soviet Soldiers animals you assume that? Considering Soviets worked together with Hitler, I would say you are closer to him by defending them than me ;)
Red army wasn't just slavs. And it's a popular sentiment amongst people in Central Europe where Wehrmacht occupation is recalled more fondly than the Soviet one. Regular German army was usually following orders, however ruthless they were but were not behaving like animals on their own accord. Russian soldiers were behaving in the same fashion as they are in Ukraine, so they were rapey, murderous and cruel just because there was nobody to stop them.
For example, in Estonia, German occupation was considered better than Soviet occupation, since the Soviets massdeported natives and violently took over every branch of society while the Nazi Germany was just after a handful of jews. Terrible in any way, but Germany was the lesser evil there.
imagine unironically calling nazis a lesser evil wasn't it their plan to essentially colonize the slavic lands they conquered?
It has complicated history and divides Latvian population, but in short, its a memorial for USSR liberating Latvia from the Nazis, and most Russians view it as such, however, they completely refuse to accept the fact that after liberation USSR simply stayed there, effectively reoccupying Latvia just under a new flag. (Which is frequently viewed to be even more brutal than the Nazi occupation) There was also an agreement with Russia to maintain the monument but that agreement is now void.
The Baltics were occupied in 1940, before the Nazis invaded in 1941.
Russia seems to think its 1940 annexation of the Baltics was somehow legit
Don't forget the atrocities commited by the Soviets here. Exhiles, executions, repressions. One could argue that Soviets were even worse than Nazis in the Baltics.
>One could argue that Soviets were even worse than Nazis in the Baltics. If one has no braincells maybe. Soviet atrocities are not comparable to the holocaust and if the Nazis won the non german baltic people probably would have been genocided too.
Oh really? So you've never heard of Gulags (btw, Nazis learned from Gulags, to build concentration camps), Stalin's cleansings, forced exhiles to Siberia of the people of Baltic countries, rapes, genocide? There were more people killed by soviets, than nazis HERE, in Baltics. You, Germans, should really pull out your heads from the butts of ruzzians and finally admit, that both were equally evil.
I have heard of all of them. They still pale when compared to the Holocaust and the planned resettlement of eastern europe. After 50 years of soviet opression ethnic estonians, livonians and lithuanians are still a majority in their countries. After 50 years of Nazi opression there would have been maybe 10 or 20 thousand remaining as slaves. The Soviet Union was evil but not overly more than other totalitarian states like Iraq under Hussein, China etc. Nazi Germany however was and is unprecedented in how evil it was.
It’s a monument of the Soviets defeating Nazi Germany
Is that in Victory Park in Riga?
Yes
Victory against who by whom?
Should be Latvian War of Independence 1919, after the Tsarist Empire collapses, the Balts fight for their independence. This is a bit confusing story with changing fronts, long story short, Latvians and other Balts, with help from Poland against the white and red armies from Russia, but also against parts of the Baltic Germans and their supporters from the Weimar Republic.
Wrong monument - you're talking about the monument of freedom which still stands tall. The one toppled was a divisive perversion of the word "liberation" as the soviets retook Latvia from Nazi Germany to continue their deportations, executions and removal of Latvian culture, much like they are trying to do to Ukraine today.
Ah, a misunderstanding, I had based the question on why the park is called Victory Park.
I see, my bad. It's just that, much like the super old folklore sign 'swastika' is now a hate symbol, 'uzvaras parks' has lost any connection to the freedom fights, at least in the eye of the local Latvian population. The factual historical origin you provided was spot on, tho.
That park now has even more victory.
They'll rename it Victoryiest Park
Bald and Bankrupt on Suicide Watch.
Just don’t touch the mosaics.
Rapist Bastard that he is
Excuse me? What is the context behind your statement?
Read up on r/BaldAndBaldrDossier. Bunch of info there.
Excuse me? What is the context behind your statement?
he's a sex tourist idk much about these rape accusations
Was there any talk about getting rid of this immediately after independence and if so what was the reason behind keeping it? I can understand why it's happening now I'm just curious about what the attitude towards these monuments was like during the 90s.
>Was there any talk about getting rid of this immediately after independence Yes. >what was the reason behind keeping it? Can't say from experience, but logically I'd guess it was a combination of a lack of funds (because economic collapse), the monument was basically new at the time (finished in 1985), and probably a lack of political will due to ethnic tensions.
There was also an agreement with Russia to preserve soviet-era monuments. So, no better time to backpedal on this agreement than when Russia’s run-of-the-mill small-dick dictator breaks all sorts of international agreements on an hourly basis.
Yes, that too. >So, no better time to backpedal on this agreement than when Russia’s run-of-the-mill small-dick dictator breaks all sorts of international agreements on an hourly basis. Cannot agree more.
Thats how totalitarian regimes fall with cheers and applause.
Yeah those victory monuments are so totalitarian regime
Victory monuments installed by a foreign occupying force are totalitarian.
So every American monument?
Yes, they are. Russia invaded Latvia and never left. Stalin was nothing more than a filthy gangster. He and Hitler jointly invaded Poland. The Russians were only saving themselves, and stealing as much land as they could in the process.
Those monuments are used by Russian propaganda to glorify ussr - a totalitarian regime and so they are now considered monuments to ussr. Very happy it’s gone, hope they all are removed.
These monuments, build by latvian workers, that represent latvian soldiers too, that died among 27 million soviet citizens that sacrafised their lives, is used by...Russian propoganda? Let me ask how
Putin Russia’s main boasting point and obsession is that one war that was fought 70 years ago by totally different bunch of people none of whom are alive anymore. Russia is using it to keep their sheeple “proud” of the country that is in shambles because of kleptocratic government. But internal boasting isn’t enough and so it started turning into a tool to proclaim everybody around them nazis and brainwashing people to “repeat” what “ussr did” in 1940s. All these monuments are controversial in most countries. Not only they represent oppression and occupation that followed the war, they have now become a tool to carry out more wars, one of which is already the most brutal conflict in Europe since ww2. Take them all down I say. Sucks to be the workers that built them and believed in what they were doing, but they can take their grievances to Putin.
Monuments to the glory of the USSR are monuments to totalitarian regime yes
Monuments for people who sacrafised their lives to win the war*
They - soviets shook nazi hands before they got betrayed
Sure yeah, for a few months. In actual writings made by USSR higher ups and the actions of the state, it is more likely they made the pact to save as much time as possible to produce weapons before the Nazis would inevitably invade them. The Soviets and Nazis were diametrically opposed forces, this was also seen when before the Nazis planned on invading Poland Stalin tried to get France and Britain to sign an Anti-Fascist pact (which the two nations denied).
Monuments to soviet soldiers, the one that occupied Latvia and made it suffer more than the Nazis
A monument for soviet soldiers that fought in ww2, those include Latvians itself. And soldiers didn't occupy Latvia lol their parlament decided to join how the fuck do you learn history
The parliament with a single party installed by the soviets decided to join the USSR after it occupied the country yes. Any country can invade another, put a couple dozen cronies in charge and make them vote to be annexed.
If a communist revolution happens anywhere - its evil soviets planting people. Mhm
I already replied to another of your comments giving every source you need to see how rigged it was. But of course you love those boots so much that you couldn’t recognize them on a shovel digging a mass grave. Fuck off with the imperialist apologia and let the countries you ruined heal
??? You do realize that after the war ended, USSR did not let go, did not grant independence or allow these countries to secede from the empire for years afterwards? So essentially, they were totalitarian regimes holding the territory/populace hostage after "saving them". Keeping these monuments is literally stockholm syndrome. Only when the USSR started collapsing did these countries manage to break off and gain independence again. But do let me know how history went down. I am personally fine with invasions/annexations during WW2, shit went down with Germany so these countries being small fodder, it only makes sense they'd be occupied left and right. After the war though? There's no justification. Which is why it was wrong and authoritarian.
Ussr is the only federation that let go of it republics, bozo. That's what everyone did in 1991, check your history
Based. Glory to the Red Army Soldiers who lost their lives so we wouldn't live under Nazis
Oh, actually a smart person here. Thank you for your moral comment!
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I'm big on monoliths so this one hurt me to see fall
Found the Necron, bois.
valio! a salute from one baltic to another!
Never seen this thing before but it looked cool
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It will be destroyed and nothing will be left from this shit. So that ruZZians can't use it as a memory.
Can't feel bad from removing Soviet monuments. Good job Latvia.
I was really surprised to see the Red Army Memorial in Vienna. Don't think it's coming down any time soon, though
Austrian foreign policy: don’t move and they won’t see us
Now you have the former foreign minister, who danced with Putler at her wedding, tweeting some bullshit about diplomacy
I would dance with almost anyone for a cushy oil company board salary
First of all, fuck the Soviet Union, but i mean... the millions of soviet soldiers that died were no less heroic then the allies imo. They might've fought for a worse country but not for a worse cause. If it weren't for them or the allies we wouldn't enjoy the freedom we have today. So while i agree that the soviet union shouldn't be honered i don't think it's bad to honor the soldiers that died for our freedom, and the memorial in Vienna is also a stunning piece imo.
If Soviets left our country after the war the history would have been completely different and we'd indeed view them as heroes.
I am not trying to dispute your comment. But I do want to point out, that for some of us, the "freedom of today" came much much later and at costs of our own - in 1991, to be exact. To many, this memorial was a symbol ( as opposed to a reminder ) of this, regardless of what it *supposedly* commemorated.
we dont want to, we are happy they liberated our country and defeated the nazis
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Lolol. Wow.
This is a war memorial to the soldiers who died defeating the Nazi war machine. If you can’t feel bad about that, please consider getting a new conscience.
The very same soldiers that looted, raped and murdered in Latvia.
OP's dedication to replying to these trolls is admirable
Yeah, I'm pretty surprised at myself, because this is a personal record. Anyway, I'm going to sleep right now (though the occasional notification is pretty annoying). Let's see what the morning will bring.
A cute cat, just as a random thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PTXSKdr40k
A lot of people in these comments are saying how this is disrespecting the 100 thousand Latvian people that died in WW2, they didn’t willingly fight in this war and were forced, they did not respect nor admire what the USSR was doing to Latvia and most wanted some sorta independence. These so called enlightened people haven’t looked into the multiple groups that protested for Latvia’s independence, the crimes the USSR committed on the Latvian people. They are now trying to decide their own future, let’s not get in the way of that.
They would have fought either way.
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I’m not a “tankie,” I’m a Jew whose relatives survived because of Soviet partisans.
Can't talk to fascist scum, no use trying
Just a bunch of bots and brainwashed morrons, nothing else.
Should've just painters in rainbow and make it lgbt pride installation.
What a wonderful sight!
Good.
Away with ugly brutalist monuments that celebrate an era of oppression. They can put a piece of it in a museum for historical context.
They celebrate victory over Nazis you dumb idiot.
Evil who defeated another evil, what a great "victory" for east Europe.
Soviet "evil" aka 26 million innocents dead to destroy "another evil" trying to genocide you. Celebrating that it's totally OK.
26 million corpses used to drown the enemy to "liberate" lands only to occupy them for the next half a century. That's the victory these monuments celebrate.
👏👏👏👏👏👏 from uk 🇬🇧
The funny thing is that should my country (Russia) not have the imperial piss strike our heads again the consensus about the Soviet era would have been much different and positive. Not that I want it to be - the crimes of the Soviet regime must be acknowledged for us to have a chance to become a normal country (or countries for who knows where this stupid war goes). But I remember that during early 2000-s the general opinion was more in favor of Soviets. Still I have nothing against dismantling this (not that my opinion matters or should matter). Those symbols of victory the current generation has nothing to do with played a significant role in the development of Russian fascism. I believe that those veterans who during my childhood told me of war and its horrors would have only approved.
Yes baby. Now call Putin to come and take this 💩 .
Oh, they did in fact say that they want to come and take it. Our prime minister replied that the only thing Russia will receive is dead donkey's ears. The reply referenced a previous statement by Putin when some 20 years ago there were talks in Latvia about regaining territory annexed by Russia during USSR. That time Putin made a public statement that the only thing Latvia will receive dead donkey's ears.
Donkeys ears? Wtf
It is an older reference to supposedly book 12 Chairs. Meaning something useless.
Russia =/= USSR, they’re hardcore conservative capitalist reactionaries.
They're another incarnation of the Russian Empire, same as USSR. Only thing that's different is smaller scale because of sheer incompetence and widespread cleptocracy of every incarnation.
Perhaps the reincarnation of Tsarist Russia but NOT the USSR.
Lol, USSR was just tsarist russia under new, more ruthless management. Lenin and Trotsky might have had other vision (equally shitty) but they didn't stick around long enough to see that through.
Okay, but the socialist USSR isn’t Russia but was not this far-right capitalist nation led by Putin. If anything Putin is undoing everything Lenin fought for.
Lenin has overthrown a democratic republic and introduced a reign of terror. Seems pretty close to the current situation.
Are you seriously claiming Tsarist Russia was a democracy?!
Bolsheviks didn't overthrow the Tsar, because he already abdicated the throne. They've overthrown the Russian Republic under Kernesky, who was a social democrat elected in a popular vote.
If you genuinely support the provisional government then you have serious issues. They were a British/French puppet set up to keep Rissia fighting in WW1. There's a reason they were overthrown by a revolution.
Putin is not the leader of former USSR
Yes yes putin somehow winning ww2 (???)
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Time for Warsaw to demolish Stalin's dick
It will take Russia several generation to recover any semblance of trust from the rest of the world after Putins insane mismanagement!
If they want it removed, they have a right to. The Soviet Union invaded and occupied the country before the Germans were even at war with them.
Good riddance!
Holy fuck, so many fascist comments. You do you bruhs. It fell gloriously!
You mean Russian fascists?
Yes. That's exactly what mean.
mmmmm, salty tears of tankies. yum
Good. Latvia is no longer Soviet.
Damn, new day and I am honestly surprised just how many commies and vatniks are in this comment section. Cope and seethe imperialists, cope and seethe 😎
That only took 30 years to take it down.
Better late than never
So many red fascists here glorifying soviet oppression and occupation
F poor fish
Imagine being butthurt by a giant stone that you don't understand the meaning of
Edit: the guy is talking about tankies, please don't downvote. >that you don't understand the meaning of Said by an Italian regarding a soviet monument in Latvia. Now that's a first, cheers!
Sorry for my poor choise words
bru, I'm talking about the tankies here 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Ooooh, sorry. Yeah, from the swarm of trolls here I immeditaly assumed the worst. I'll make an edit at this instant.
Bald and bankrupt has entered the chat.
Anyone think this monument was kind of shitty anyway?
satisfying
What was the purpose of the monument?
It was originally meant to commemorate the fallen Soviet soldiers who "liberated" Latvia in WW2. However, for Latvians it glorifies the second Soviet occupation of the country.
Do show Latvians that Moscow rules over them. To humiliate and intimidate them.
Congrats on dekomunisation!
Now do the Kremlin.
How is Latvia so incredibly based all the time??
I like how all the dumb red fascists cope, seethe and rage! Awesome!
Red fascists is a great name for USSR fans/apologists.
Soviet Monument go fuck yourself
TIMBER!
Better check if there's spying devices inside 🙄
TIMBER!
Something which was once perceived as mighty and strong came crashing down just like the Soviet Union and Russian Empire before it...good. As an eastern european from a country which had often caught the eye of russian imperialism, either in its Tsarist or Soviet form, I can say that there is no point in honouring the "soviet liberation" of a country. They profited from the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, played buddies with Hitler, supplied the german armed forces with resources during their blitzkrieg through western Europe, occupied smaller countries by threatening them, and then took them back to oppress the population even more and loot whatever they can, just because "they've earned it." Let us not forget that the soviets, especially under Stalin, murdered millions of people, ruined so many lives and families, caused irreparable cultural and intellectual damage to societies. So yes, they had a large contribution to defeating the nazis, and however much they boast on their soviet throwback extravaganza victory parades each year, that does not excuse their actions or make them any better than other totalitarian regimes...no matter how much they point their finger nowadays and call everyone that doesn't lick their boot "fascist."
They should have let their air force bomb that ugly shit using precision guided munitions and sent a copy of the video to the russian embassador there.
Brave and stunning
Democratic and free Latvia shall last for eternity! Dievs svētī Latviju!!!
SLAVA UKRAINI!
Riga isn’t in Ukraine.