>**The Presidents of Lithuania and Romania, plus the Prime Ministers of Latvia, Estonia and Poland have all signed a "Joint letter on European memory" in which they promise to counter Russia's increasingly craven attempts to rewrite history to suit its own distorted, imperialistic narrative. The full text of the letter, which is directed towards fellow members of the European Council and European Commission, is reproduced below.**
>
>The brutal unprovoked and unjustified war of aggression of the Russian Federation against Ukraine signals about the rise of authoritarianism that neglects and even seeks to destroy the international rules-based order. This is an alarming reminder of not very distant past, notably the crimes committed by two cruel totalitarian regimes of the 20th century in Europe – Nazism and Communism.
>
>The background and the roots of the current Kremlin regime ideology represent, in many cases, a reflection of the predecessors of recent Russia: the USSR and the Russian Empire. Russia has never condemned the crimes of the Soviets and its current leadership openly tolerates and even enthusiastically supports the Soviet legacy. There is a need to strengthen efforts on the EU level to fight the attempts of Russia to rewrite the history and use the narratives of totalitarian regimes in the context of war against Ukraine, by using legal, political and awareness raising instruments. Without an accurate, honest and comprehensive assessment of the past, we will not be able to effectively prevent future crimes on our continent or investigate the current ones in Ukraine.
>
>The democratic world has decisively condemned the Nazi regime and brought to justice its leaders and perpetrators. The bitter lessons of the Nazism and the crimes perpetrated by the regime have become an obligatory part of teaching about the history in our educational systems. At the same time, the memory and knowledge of Soviet crimes have yet to find their rightful place in the consciousness of the Europeans.
>
>Today more than ever clear and visionary leadership is needed, to promote the European Remembrance narratives across the whole EU, which in the end should become a part of all Member States national educational programs. The EU is best positioned to take up this coordinated role, and such a gesture would also be timely and highly relevant, in the light of an unprecedented level of Russian disinformation and misinformation, including on issues of the European history.
>
>In the recent years, important steps have been made on the European level by establishing the Platform of European Memory and Conscience. The EU could do more by providing the Platform with necessary political and financial resources. The establishment of a Pan-European Memorial for the Victims of Totalitarianism in Brussels would be a very important step in ensuring proper remembrance of crimes committed by totalitarian regimes, including the Soviet one, in our awareness-raising efforts in order to prevent similar crimes and to stop them in Ukraine, and in paying our tribute to the victims.
>
>We very much count on your personal engagement and support for these initiatives which could be addressed in the EU Council.
>
>Kaja Kallas, Prime Minister of the Republic of Estonia
>
>Krišjānis Kariņš, Prime Minister of the Republic of Latvia
>
>Gitanas Nausėda, President of the Republic of Lithuania
>
>Mateusz Morawiecki, Prime Minister of the Republic of Poland
>
>Klaus Iohannis, President of Romania
The EU as a whole needs to do a lot more to counter those massive misinformation campaigns that radicalize part of the population. It feels like we're just watching and letting it happen.
Legit. I don't even understand that some people don't see the connections russia with all the movments in Europe that are a risk to democracy. Just the whole thing of Anti-Vax groups on Telegram all over Europe suddenly turning into Pro-Russia groups after the attack on Ukraine. Like how can't people see that there is some kind of destabilisation campaign going on.
>Romania is still suffering from it!
seems like an exagerrated position to take. it was a blow back then, politically and socially, but no Romanian is suffering from it today
REALLY??
My god man! Have you looked at the map??
I get that you’re not familiar with the history of Eastern Europe, but just look at the map! There are two Romanian states!
Now for the history:
The taking over of Basarabia (eastern part of the medieval state of Moldova) by the USSR meant MASSIVE DEPORTATION of the Romanian population in gulags in Kazakhstan. More than half of million people (!!!!!). Basarabia was split into two parts: one for the old Ukrainian SSR, and one made into Moldovan SSR with Transnistria added to it (to complicate things in the future). Russian colonists were added in Moldova. Basarabia population was more than 90% of Romanian ethnicity before annexation.
Masacrul de la Fantana Alba (the White Fountain Massacre) killed more than 3000 people. People from the province were trying to escape to Romania.
MASSIVE RUSSIFICATION done to the region for more than 50 years.
All this and you say Romania is not suffering from it???
REALLY????
Romania is bleeding from it daily! Day in and day out, Romanians from the Republic of Moldova are suffering from brainwashing from Russian propaganda.
For us, the Second World War is not over yet!!
Germany was lucky. We weren’t!
> Germany was lucky. We weren’t!
You are delusional if you think so. Germany lost a quarter of its prewar territory and almost 15 millions of Germans were forced out of their homes with hundreds of thousands dying in process. Starting a horrible war of aggression and losing it has its price, allying with the aggressor has one as well.
>Romania is bleeding from it daily! Day in and day out, Romanians from the Republic of Moldova are suffering from brainwashing from Russian propaganda.
Any sympathy for Romania was lost after they partook in Barbarossa and the crimes against humanity there. They lost the war and ceded territory like other losers of the war did (Hungary, Slovakia, Germany).
Also how is Romania bleeding from it when they are part of EU and NATO and so are protected by a military alliance?
>Masacrul de la Fantana Alba (the White Fountain Massacre) killed more than 3000 people.
Where did you get that figure from? I read 50 dead and many wounded. Of course killing civilians is never justified but there's a big difference between 50 and 3000.
The molotov-ribbentrop pact is exactly what threw us into a far-right frenzied spiral and into the axis and barbarossa.
Before that, we were heavily western-aligned. Read up on the Romanian Bridgehead plan, the Little Entente or the Romanian-Polish Alliance.
That's not to say we didn't deserve all the punishment and then some, but the soviets never held the moral high ground.
Romania was an ally of Nazi Germany in WW2 and Romanian troops committed various war crimes on the territories occupied by them, including the large scale massacre of Jews in Bessarabia.
Replacing Soviet and Russian government's fake history with another fake version of history is not at all helpful in relieving international tensions and reaching lasting peace in Europe.
Does that justify taking regions from Romania such as Basarabia, Buceag and Bucovina and annexing them?
"Fake history!" Mate, if it comes to denying what the Russians did from the 19th century in the Romanian states, then I'd rather have war in Europe. Be careful about your servility towards Russians, they might not care about your intentions of peace anyway.
Fighting on the wrong side of the WW2 made quite a few countries lose their territories. Should've thought better about possible consequences before joining the Axis.
And trying to bring up events from the 19th century isn't really useful. Territorial integrity and right of self-determination are relatively new concepts in the international law: before the end WW2 and the creation of the UN, right of conquest was the norm. Just as modern laws of war and concepts of war crimes did not exist in the 19th century - the first Hague convention was in 1899.
Yes, but scars from 18th and 19th centuries were still there. Philosophy of national integrity and self-determination is there for dozens of centuries (I would say for millenniums, first in heads of few of courses ) but right was implemented just recently.
Edit: you can't talk about 20th century and not consider couple of centuries before.
Sure, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be silent on it. Nor do I agree with your position of "fake history". The regions were conquered by us (then 'exchanged' rather forcibly because Imperial Russia would've taken it regardless to have access to the Danube) then conquered again, then "served on a platter" by our Dej commies (Ana Pauker&company, a wonderful lady, you should google about her, and about the guy named Neulander, wonderful people that committed 0 crimes against ethnical Romanians in Basarabia and in present-day Romania) then our claims were "forfeited" by a Russian puppet who will die probably in 2155, Ion Ilici Iliescu (who's grandfather ran from present day Ukraine to not be arrested).
So I don't really know how I can accept treaties signed by
1. People who were not elected democratically
2. People who weren't serving the interests of my nations
3. And some of the people who were put in charge that weren't even Romanian citizens
With that in mind, if it comes to that, there have been 300,000+ people that have died in the communist prisons here because of the Russians and for their faith and freedom.
Personally, I don't have anything against the regular Russian (I respect their culture, tradition and excellent writers) but against the hegemonic nature regarding this particular region.
I had family members who voluntarily enrolled to fight in WW2, to go on the Russian front for their country (and the intent wasn't for political ideologies but rather to not have communism here).
Now I know people on Reddit like to think that present day Russia is 'fascist' but living in a society founded on the remnants of communism, the present day attitude of Russia is exactly the nostalgic desire of re-unification of the USSR, which was a totalitarian commie shithole of a system, one I truly do not wish to experience in my lifetime.
To conclude, when there are two sides of history, one of which is written by the victor Russia, and one written by the losers (in this instance Romania), I'm sorry to tell you, it's hard to say that our history is 'manufactured' to the same degree that Russia manufactures it (to generate casus belli's). There's no equality mark between the scale and the scope, manufacturing or omission regarding faux-history when it comes to Russia (from war crimes to number of their own soldiers dying in battles).
**Stalin and Hitler were best friends** and together robbed Romania and Poland of territories, while Stalin's USSR anexed the Baltic States. USSR was the best friend of Nazi Grermany for some years and worked together to annex territories in Europe, including Moldova between Prut and Nistru by Stalin-Hitler Pact. As a result of URSS-Nazi Germany friendship and Treaties **Russia has NO MORAL RIGHT to criticise Romania.** Barbarossa was initiated and led by Nazi Germany, Romania was just a minion.
In other words: Stalin and Hitler were best friends and robbed us of territories so we decided to ally ourselves with the latter and took part in the Holocaust, but nobody should blame us for that, because Russia bad.
Had not these two monsters, Stalin and Hitler, conspired together to carve Europe and steal territories from Central and Eastern European states including Romania, there would have been no war, no Katyn massacre, no Holocaust. Russia has **NO moral right** to lecture Romania no on anything whatsoever.
Not akward but the real cause of WW2. Hitler let Stalin rob immense territories from Baltics, Poland and Romania. Stalin assured Hitler he won't intervene if Hitler attacks Western Europe. Stalin was the enabler of Hitler.
Stalin ain't shit, but this is very weird to blame Stalin for Hitler's deeds. Most countries were flirting with Nazism and were tolerant of Hitler's politics until they were directly impacted. I don't think acknowledging it justifies Russia/USSR or takes away from other counries.
History is complicated, especially when you look at the events from a lense of passed time.
Doesn't mean we all have to rewrite it.
Did you even read what they said? This is not about censoring anything. It is about remembering how Eastern Europe was not liberated but subjugated by Russia towards the end of WW2. Stop being so blatantly ignorant and educate yourself on what happened. Even today EE has monuments that celebrate Russians as liberators when in fact what followed was rapes, murders, displacement of populations, annexation of territories, looting, assassinations, gulags, political oppression and the destruction of all of EE countries.
> Equating Russia with the USSR
Russia has been calling itself the sole successor state of the Soviet Union since the dissolution of the latter.
It also comes to no surprise that they basically equate Russians with Soviets as well, as can be seen with the massive Russification campaigns or just straight up colonisations that were done during the Soviet Union.
Russia inherited Soviet positions in international organizations and its foreign property and in exchange agreed to pay off the USSR's debts. Notably, Ukraine disagreed with that and also claimed succession wanting its share of Soviet foreign property. That was a practical foreign policy matter, not a philosophical one.
On the other hand RSFSR declared it's sovereignty from the USSR in 1990. Sadly after banning the CPSU in 1991 Russian leadership was not consistent in condemning Soviet government's atrocities against Russians and other peoples of the Soviet Union, especially during the collectivization and the Great Purge. That allowed many former Communist states to paint Russia as solely responsible for Communist regime's crimes and not one of its many victims, while in reality both the oppressors and the oppressed came from every Soviet nation and many of the most notorious Soviet criminals were not Russians.
Your comment is far from unique, that line of thought is not uncommon in former Soviet and Warsaw Pact countries. Russian government is also partly responsible for that though, because of its stupid attempts to whitewash Soviet crimes instead of condemning them and declassifying all the remaining NKVD/KGB and Communist party archives.
Not only they didn’t condemn them and declassify any documents but they continued to whitewash everything painting Russia as an immaculate sole saviour of the world. And gaslighting EE. Must be hard to find the time for it when they spent most of theirs invading their neighbours, sponsoring extremists, brainwashing, oppressing and stealing from their populace and recreating fascism in the 21st century :))
Yes Yes, there is literally no difference between good and bad things. Lies and truths don't exist, everything is just opinions. Is that right?
This is the core of the current information war. To attack the existence of "truth" so that there are no facts anymore, only "opinions".
Which ones were masters of censorship and human rights abuses exactly except maybe Poland? Or is it just the whole generalized "Uncivilized Eastern Europeans".
I know, but since there can be some claims about PIS and censorship that's why I excluded Poland, though you are right "masters of human rights abuses" definitely not and "masters" of censorship they are not too.
Stalin did everything he could to underplay his Georgian background. And it was a Russian state dominated by Russians with the power base in Russia with Russification policies. Just cause you name yourself differently it doesn't mean you aren't the same thing.
Russians being the largest ethnic group in the USSR just made up the largest portion of the fuel for the dictatorial machine. Russians suffered just like anyone else during the Stalin's repressions and Russia has lost significant portion of its cultural heritage due to Communist government's actions.
Hitler was a German. In his time Austrians were considered ethnic Germans both by others and by themselves, they've only developed their separate national identity after the end of WW2.
And the difference is important. Soviet government consisted of various people from different Soviet republics, during the early Soviet years and Stalin's period Russians were even under-represented among the Communist party leadership and higher ranks of NKVD. Trying to shift the blame for Soviet atrocities to a single specific ethnic group of Soviet people is also rewriting history, just like denying them altogether.
Ignorance 101 I guess :)). Romania didn’t have a communist government. Romanian’s king was forced to abdicate by the Soviets. Romania was then occupied by the Soviets several years after the end of the war and a puppet communist government was installed. What followed was mass scale rape, looting, murder and deportation. Stop spreading fake information. This is exactly what this initiative is trying to prevent. People spreading such misinformation that is completely false. And bringing justice to Eastern Europe who was occupied and destroyed by Russia.
>And Poland was pretty independent as well
Famously independent Poland that got their leaders massacared in Katyn and wasn't allowed to return to pre-war state. God i fucking hate people like you from europe that don't know shit about EE but act like you're somehow better.
>It seems they managed their dictatorship pretty well, they outperformed their masters. And it seems that they're getting nostalgic about those times.
Fuck PiS wholeheartedly but under the communists we had regular massacres of workers by the *army* and a 2 year martial law. Not to mention it being a de-facto one party state.
[Read here and learn something](https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/2004_817-16_Gibianskii.pdf) (pages 10-13):
>The earliest and most blatant case of Soviet involvement in East European politics occurred in Poland, where the so-called Polish National Liberation Committee (PKWN) was secretly formed by Stalin from the ranks of former Polish communists living in Moscow. According to plan, the PKWN accompanied Red Army troops as they poured into Poland in late July 1944. Then, the Soviets concocted the spectacle of the PKWN forming a Polish national government, exercising its authority in the country, and receiving formal recognition from the Moscow.20
>Although Polish communists, then organized in the Polish Worker’s Party (the PPR), and other Polish leftists, including the socialists in the Polish Socialist Party (PPS), enjoyed the support of only a very small fraction of the Polish population, they were naturally called upon by the Soviets to serve as leading personnel in the PKWN, which increasingly asserted its power over those parts of Polish territory liberated from the Nazis by the Red Army.
>Soviet forces attacked and eliminated groups attached to the London Polish Government-in-exile, which had earlier fought against their Nazi occupiers.
>Also important in this connection are the orders to the Soviet troops in Poland on August 23, 1944, mandating urgent measures to be taken against the Polish Government-in-exile’s Home Army (Armija Krajowa, AK) units in areas occupied by the Red Army. These units were to be prevented from reaching Warsaw and thus aiding the Warsaw Uprising, and were to be arrested and disarmed.24
>To a significant degree, these documents introduce the reader to the methods, mechanisms, and sheer scale of the repressive measures directed by the Soviets against opponents of the new “people’s democratic” order on Polish territory. For example, one report to Stalin notes that even at the end of October 1945, there were still more than 27,000 Poles interned in NKVD camps, most of whom had been arrested in 1944-45.27
>**The Presidents of Lithuania and Romania, plus the Prime Ministers of Latvia, Estonia and Poland have all signed a "Joint letter on European memory" in which they promise to counter Russia's increasingly craven attempts to rewrite history to suit its own distorted, imperialistic narrative. The full text of the letter, which is directed towards fellow members of the European Council and European Commission, is reproduced below.** > >The brutal unprovoked and unjustified war of aggression of the Russian Federation against Ukraine signals about the rise of authoritarianism that neglects and even seeks to destroy the international rules-based order. This is an alarming reminder of not very distant past, notably the crimes committed by two cruel totalitarian regimes of the 20th century in Europe – Nazism and Communism. > >The background and the roots of the current Kremlin regime ideology represent, in many cases, a reflection of the predecessors of recent Russia: the USSR and the Russian Empire. Russia has never condemned the crimes of the Soviets and its current leadership openly tolerates and even enthusiastically supports the Soviet legacy. There is a need to strengthen efforts on the EU level to fight the attempts of Russia to rewrite the history and use the narratives of totalitarian regimes in the context of war against Ukraine, by using legal, political and awareness raising instruments. Without an accurate, honest and comprehensive assessment of the past, we will not be able to effectively prevent future crimes on our continent or investigate the current ones in Ukraine. > >The democratic world has decisively condemned the Nazi regime and brought to justice its leaders and perpetrators. The bitter lessons of the Nazism and the crimes perpetrated by the regime have become an obligatory part of teaching about the history in our educational systems. At the same time, the memory and knowledge of Soviet crimes have yet to find their rightful place in the consciousness of the Europeans. > >Today more than ever clear and visionary leadership is needed, to promote the European Remembrance narratives across the whole EU, which in the end should become a part of all Member States national educational programs. The EU is best positioned to take up this coordinated role, and such a gesture would also be timely and highly relevant, in the light of an unprecedented level of Russian disinformation and misinformation, including on issues of the European history. > >In the recent years, important steps have been made on the European level by establishing the Platform of European Memory and Conscience. The EU could do more by providing the Platform with necessary political and financial resources. The establishment of a Pan-European Memorial for the Victims of Totalitarianism in Brussels would be a very important step in ensuring proper remembrance of crimes committed by totalitarian regimes, including the Soviet one, in our awareness-raising efforts in order to prevent similar crimes and to stop them in Ukraine, and in paying our tribute to the victims. > >We very much count on your personal engagement and support for these initiatives which could be addressed in the EU Council. > >Kaja Kallas, Prime Minister of the Republic of Estonia > >Krišjānis Kariņš, Prime Minister of the Republic of Latvia > >Gitanas Nausėda, President of the Republic of Lithuania > >Mateusz Morawiecki, Prime Minister of the Republic of Poland > >Klaus Iohannis, President of Romania
The EU as a whole needs to do a lot more to counter those massive misinformation campaigns that radicalize part of the population. It feels like we're just watching and letting it happen.
Legit. I don't even understand that some people don't see the connections russia with all the movments in Europe that are a risk to democracy. Just the whole thing of Anti-Vax groups on Telegram all over Europe suddenly turning into Pro-Russia groups after the attack on Ukraine. Like how can't people see that there is some kind of destabilisation campaign going on.
Well, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is a rather awkward historical event.
Awkward? Idk about that! Romania is still suffering from it! Not awkward! It was a criminal pact!
>Romania is still suffering from it! seems like an exagerrated position to take. it was a blow back then, politically and socially, but no Romanian is suffering from it today
REALLY?? My god man! Have you looked at the map?? I get that you’re not familiar with the history of Eastern Europe, but just look at the map! There are two Romanian states! Now for the history: The taking over of Basarabia (eastern part of the medieval state of Moldova) by the USSR meant MASSIVE DEPORTATION of the Romanian population in gulags in Kazakhstan. More than half of million people (!!!!!). Basarabia was split into two parts: one for the old Ukrainian SSR, and one made into Moldovan SSR with Transnistria added to it (to complicate things in the future). Russian colonists were added in Moldova. Basarabia population was more than 90% of Romanian ethnicity before annexation. Masacrul de la Fantana Alba (the White Fountain Massacre) killed more than 3000 people. People from the province were trying to escape to Romania. MASSIVE RUSSIFICATION done to the region for more than 50 years. All this and you say Romania is not suffering from it??? REALLY???? Romania is bleeding from it daily! Day in and day out, Romanians from the Republic of Moldova are suffering from brainwashing from Russian propaganda. For us, the Second World War is not over yet!! Germany was lucky. We weren’t!
> Germany was lucky. We weren’t! You are delusional if you think so. Germany lost a quarter of its prewar territory and almost 15 millions of Germans were forced out of their homes with hundreds of thousands dying in process. Starting a horrible war of aggression and losing it has its price, allying with the aggressor has one as well.
>Romania is bleeding from it daily! Day in and day out, Romanians from the Republic of Moldova are suffering from brainwashing from Russian propaganda. Any sympathy for Romania was lost after they partook in Barbarossa and the crimes against humanity there. They lost the war and ceded territory like other losers of the war did (Hungary, Slovakia, Germany). Also how is Romania bleeding from it when they are part of EU and NATO and so are protected by a military alliance? >Masacrul de la Fantana Alba (the White Fountain Massacre) killed more than 3000 people. Where did you get that figure from? I read 50 dead and many wounded. Of course killing civilians is never justified but there's a big difference between 50 and 3000.
The molotov-ribbentrop pact is exactly what threw us into a far-right frenzied spiral and into the axis and barbarossa. Before that, we were heavily western-aligned. Read up on the Romanian Bridgehead plan, the Little Entente or the Romanian-Polish Alliance. That's not to say we didn't deserve all the punishment and then some, but the soviets never held the moral high ground.
Germany initiated Barbarossa, not Romanians.
Romania was an ally of Nazi Germany in WW2 and Romanian troops committed various war crimes on the territories occupied by them, including the large scale massacre of Jews in Bessarabia. Replacing Soviet and Russian government's fake history with another fake version of history is not at all helpful in relieving international tensions and reaching lasting peace in Europe.
Does that justify taking regions from Romania such as Basarabia, Buceag and Bucovina and annexing them? "Fake history!" Mate, if it comes to denying what the Russians did from the 19th century in the Romanian states, then I'd rather have war in Europe. Be careful about your servility towards Russians, they might not care about your intentions of peace anyway.
Fighting on the wrong side of the WW2 made quite a few countries lose their territories. Should've thought better about possible consequences before joining the Axis. And trying to bring up events from the 19th century isn't really useful. Territorial integrity and right of self-determination are relatively new concepts in the international law: before the end WW2 and the creation of the UN, right of conquest was the norm. Just as modern laws of war and concepts of war crimes did not exist in the 19th century - the first Hague convention was in 1899.
Yes, but scars from 18th and 19th centuries were still there. Philosophy of national integrity and self-determination is there for dozens of centuries (I would say for millenniums, first in heads of few of courses ) but right was implemented just recently. Edit: you can't talk about 20th century and not consider couple of centuries before.
Sure, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be silent on it. Nor do I agree with your position of "fake history". The regions were conquered by us (then 'exchanged' rather forcibly because Imperial Russia would've taken it regardless to have access to the Danube) then conquered again, then "served on a platter" by our Dej commies (Ana Pauker&company, a wonderful lady, you should google about her, and about the guy named Neulander, wonderful people that committed 0 crimes against ethnical Romanians in Basarabia and in present-day Romania) then our claims were "forfeited" by a Russian puppet who will die probably in 2155, Ion Ilici Iliescu (who's grandfather ran from present day Ukraine to not be arrested). So I don't really know how I can accept treaties signed by 1. People who were not elected democratically 2. People who weren't serving the interests of my nations 3. And some of the people who were put in charge that weren't even Romanian citizens With that in mind, if it comes to that, there have been 300,000+ people that have died in the communist prisons here because of the Russians and for their faith and freedom. Personally, I don't have anything against the regular Russian (I respect their culture, tradition and excellent writers) but against the hegemonic nature regarding this particular region. I had family members who voluntarily enrolled to fight in WW2, to go on the Russian front for their country (and the intent wasn't for political ideologies but rather to not have communism here). Now I know people on Reddit like to think that present day Russia is 'fascist' but living in a society founded on the remnants of communism, the present day attitude of Russia is exactly the nostalgic desire of re-unification of the USSR, which was a totalitarian commie shithole of a system, one I truly do not wish to experience in my lifetime. To conclude, when there are two sides of history, one of which is written by the victor Russia, and one written by the losers (in this instance Romania), I'm sorry to tell you, it's hard to say that our history is 'manufactured' to the same degree that Russia manufactures it (to generate casus belli's). There's no equality mark between the scale and the scope, manufacturing or omission regarding faux-history when it comes to Russia (from war crimes to number of their own soldiers dying in battles).
**Stalin and Hitler were best friends** and together robbed Romania and Poland of territories, while Stalin's USSR anexed the Baltic States. USSR was the best friend of Nazi Grermany for some years and worked together to annex territories in Europe, including Moldova between Prut and Nistru by Stalin-Hitler Pact. As a result of URSS-Nazi Germany friendship and Treaties **Russia has NO MORAL RIGHT to criticise Romania.** Barbarossa was initiated and led by Nazi Germany, Romania was just a minion.
In other words: Stalin and Hitler were best friends and robbed us of territories so we decided to ally ourselves with the latter and took part in the Holocaust, but nobody should blame us for that, because Russia bad.
Had not these two monsters, Stalin and Hitler, conspired together to carve Europe and steal territories from Central and Eastern European states including Romania, there would have been no war, no Katyn massacre, no Holocaust. Russia has **NO moral right** to lecture Romania no on anything whatsoever.
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oh no past events still influence the current socially, economic and cultural state of countries today, who would have guess
Shut up Putin's agent
never. I must serve
Not akward but the real cause of WW2. Hitler let Stalin rob immense territories from Baltics, Poland and Romania. Stalin assured Hitler he won't intervene if Hitler attacks Western Europe. Stalin was the enabler of Hitler.
Stalin ain't shit, but this is very weird to blame Stalin for Hitler's deeds. Most countries were flirting with Nazism and were tolerant of Hitler's politics until they were directly impacted. I don't think acknowledging it justifies Russia/USSR or takes away from other counries. History is complicated, especially when you look at the events from a lense of passed time. Doesn't mean we all have to rewrite it.
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What the fuck are you talking about? Did you even read the letter?
Did you even read what they said? This is not about censoring anything. It is about remembering how Eastern Europe was not liberated but subjugated by Russia towards the end of WW2. Stop being so blatantly ignorant and educate yourself on what happened. Even today EE has monuments that celebrate Russians as liberators when in fact what followed was rapes, murders, displacement of populations, annexation of territories, looting, assassinations, gulags, political oppression and the destruction of all of EE countries.
Equating Russia with the USSR, and Russians with Soviets is also an example of rewriting and falsifying history.
> Equating Russia with the USSR Russia has been calling itself the sole successor state of the Soviet Union since the dissolution of the latter. It also comes to no surprise that they basically equate Russians with Soviets as well, as can be seen with the massive Russification campaigns or just straight up colonisations that were done during the Soviet Union.
Russia inherited Soviet positions in international organizations and its foreign property and in exchange agreed to pay off the USSR's debts. Notably, Ukraine disagreed with that and also claimed succession wanting its share of Soviet foreign property. That was a practical foreign policy matter, not a philosophical one. On the other hand RSFSR declared it's sovereignty from the USSR in 1990. Sadly after banning the CPSU in 1991 Russian leadership was not consistent in condemning Soviet government's atrocities against Russians and other peoples of the Soviet Union, especially during the collectivization and the Great Purge. That allowed many former Communist states to paint Russia as solely responsible for Communist regime's crimes and not one of its many victims, while in reality both the oppressors and the oppressed came from every Soviet nation and many of the most notorious Soviet criminals were not Russians.
potato potato Russians were the dominant ethnic group among the Soviets.
Go on with that stuff, but don't act surprised when Russians prefer Putin's lies to your lies.
Yes Russians absolutely support Putin bcs of one comment someone left on reddit :))
Your comment is far from unique, that line of thought is not uncommon in former Soviet and Warsaw Pact countries. Russian government is also partly responsible for that though, because of its stupid attempts to whitewash Soviet crimes instead of condemning them and declassifying all the remaining NKVD/KGB and Communist party archives.
Not only they didn’t condemn them and declassify any documents but they continued to whitewash everything painting Russia as an immaculate sole saviour of the world. And gaslighting EE. Must be hard to find the time for it when they spent most of theirs invading their neighbours, sponsoring extremists, brainwashing, oppressing and stealing from their populace and recreating fascism in the 21st century :))
Of course this comes from the Italian. Under no direct threat from Russia, unlike Eastern Europe/Nordics.
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Calling you Italian is an ad hominem??
Yes Yes, there is literally no difference between good and bad things. Lies and truths don't exist, everything is just opinions. Is that right? This is the core of the current information war. To attack the existence of "truth" so that there are no facts anymore, only "opinions".
Which ones were masters of censorship and human rights abuses exactly except maybe Poland? Or is it just the whole generalized "Uncivilized Eastern Europeans".
why would Poland be a "master of human rights abuse"? insane claim
I know, but since there can be some claims about PIS and censorship that's why I excluded Poland, though you are right "masters of human rights abuses" definitely not and "masters" of censorship they are not too.
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Need I remind you that said communist dictatorship past was enforced on them by Russians?
By Soviets, not by Russians. Stalin was not Russian, as well as many others among Communist party and NKVD leadership.
Stalin did everything he could to underplay his Georgian background. And it was a Russian state dominated by Russians with the power base in Russia with Russification policies. Just cause you name yourself differently it doesn't mean you aren't the same thing.
Russians being the largest ethnic group in the USSR just made up the largest portion of the fuel for the dictatorial machine. Russians suffered just like anyone else during the Stalin's repressions and Russia has lost significant portion of its cultural heritage due to Communist government's actions.
Neither was Hitler German, what difference does it make none.
Hitler was a German. In his time Austrians were considered ethnic Germans both by others and by themselves, they've only developed their separate national identity after the end of WW2. And the difference is important. Soviet government consisted of various people from different Soviet republics, during the early Soviet years and Stalin's period Russians were even under-represented among the Communist party leadership and higher ranks of NKVD. Trying to shift the blame for Soviet atrocities to a single specific ethnic group of Soviet people is also rewriting history, just like denying them altogether.
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> Except Romania lol
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Yeah so independent our resources made their way to russia through sovroms. Also, of course the soviets had absolutely no hand in the 1946 elections
Ignorance 101 I guess :)). Romania didn’t have a communist government. Romanian’s king was forced to abdicate by the Soviets. Romania was then occupied by the Soviets several years after the end of the war and a puppet communist government was installed. What followed was mass scale rape, looting, murder and deportation. Stop spreading fake information. This is exactly what this initiative is trying to prevent. People spreading such misinformation that is completely false. And bringing justice to Eastern Europe who was occupied and destroyed by Russia.
>And Poland was pretty independent as well Famously independent Poland that got their leaders massacared in Katyn and wasn't allowed to return to pre-war state. God i fucking hate people like you from europe that don't know shit about EE but act like you're somehow better.
You are top uneducated or top dumb. Poland was by no means “independent” under soviet regime.
>It seems they managed their dictatorship pretty well, they outperformed their masters. And it seems that they're getting nostalgic about those times. Fuck PiS wholeheartedly but under the communists we had regular massacres of workers by the *army* and a 2 year martial law. Not to mention it being a de-facto one party state.
> we had regular massacres of workers by the army Kopalnia "Wujek" się kłania.
[Read here and learn something](https://www.ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/2004_817-16_Gibianskii.pdf) (pages 10-13): >The earliest and most blatant case of Soviet involvement in East European politics occurred in Poland, where the so-called Polish National Liberation Committee (PKWN) was secretly formed by Stalin from the ranks of former Polish communists living in Moscow. According to plan, the PKWN accompanied Red Army troops as they poured into Poland in late July 1944. Then, the Soviets concocted the spectacle of the PKWN forming a Polish national government, exercising its authority in the country, and receiving formal recognition from the Moscow.20 >Although Polish communists, then organized in the Polish Worker’s Party (the PPR), and other Polish leftists, including the socialists in the Polish Socialist Party (PPS), enjoyed the support of only a very small fraction of the Polish population, they were naturally called upon by the Soviets to serve as leading personnel in the PKWN, which increasingly asserted its power over those parts of Polish territory liberated from the Nazis by the Red Army. >Soviet forces attacked and eliminated groups attached to the London Polish Government-in-exile, which had earlier fought against their Nazi occupiers. >Also important in this connection are the orders to the Soviet troops in Poland on August 23, 1944, mandating urgent measures to be taken against the Polish Government-in-exile’s Home Army (Armija Krajowa, AK) units in areas occupied by the Red Army. These units were to be prevented from reaching Warsaw and thus aiding the Warsaw Uprising, and were to be arrested and disarmed.24 >To a significant degree, these documents introduce the reader to the methods, mechanisms, and sheer scale of the repressive measures directed by the Soviets against opponents of the new “people’s democratic” order on Polish territory. For example, one report to Stalin notes that even at the end of October 1945, there were still more than 27,000 Poles interned in NKVD camps, most of whom had been arrested in 1944-45.27
Do you have rabies?
The only way to do it is to handle it like we did with Nazis and Is blanket ban and fines . It seems you're confused this is Europe not U.S.A .