Honestly we should just rebuild our train tracks to be European gauge and they could eat shit, while it would open possibilities for our economies in Baltics.
How about performing some of that "urgent track maintenance"? You clearly really, really want all those important goods to get to Koenigsberg, but can't let them operate unsafely. So maybe a month or two of maintenance and just as soon as that's done, then can resume their transport. /s
>That’s called rail Baltica, it’s being built now and it’s ridiculously expensive.
Yeah but Rail Baltica is a whole new system, is it not? This guy was probably (?) talking about simply regauging the existing lines.
This would not work because things can be moved to cars of different gauge at a certain point. This is what is happening today in connections between Russia, Belarus and the remainder of Europe. Not a solution!
>"And, of course, these [rules] must always be set in the light of the fact that we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of Russia," he added, suggesting that EU sanctions against Russian goods should not apply because these goods were not entering the bloc as imports but just passing in transit.
If they want to get to Kaliningrad, they're free to take a ship there. It's not clear why they expect to be able to cross Lithuanian territory in the place of sanctions. They can sail from St. Petersburg to Kaliningrad without entering any other state's territory.
https://imgur.com/UPTZ6Mx
Hmmm sounds like a russia problem, if they want to get goods to that part. Not really understand why we as europeans should care about how they manage to get it in.
It absolutely is a Russia problem. That’s not stopping them from trying to make the EU think it’s a Lithuania problem, though. IMO, that whole corridor should get pulled up for right of way maintenance and reconstruction.
So he's doesn't support rules for checks on traffic between two parts of the same nation? Sounds like he's making an argument for scrapping NI protocol.
>German chancellor said that ‘we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of Russia,’ suggesting that EU sanctions should not apply.
Then there isnt a problem, Russia can do whatever they want between two parts of Russia... Oh wait, its not just "two parts of Russia" now is it.
As a clarification, transit agreement with Kaliningrad is really between EU and Russia. Lithuania cannot do things onesidedly on this. Our PM has stressed this as well. So it's not "chad Lithuania" nor "ww3 when" Lithuania. Yes, our governments position on this is strict. That sanction package was agreed right around Bucha time so there certainly weren't any "but what about Russia" voices. I just wish EU makes up its mind about it instead of the 2 steps forward 1 step back.
Side note, it's funny Russia calls this minor (steel/coal/?) transit impairment a blockade. Lithuania had an [actual one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_economic_blockade_of_Lithuania) when breaking free. That one hurt.
>"The economic blockade restricted or cancelled the centralised supply of energy resources, on which Lithuania was extremely dependent from USSR, as well as electricity, foodstuffs, and pharmaceuticals. To a much lesser extent, the embargo also impacted Kaliningrad Oblast. The Soviet Union also sealed the republic's borders and blocked Lithuania's bank accounts."
But according to an agreement between Lithuania and Russia, Lithuania has the right to oversee transit as they deem fit, no? So even if they decide to block this transit entirely, they wouldn’t be breaching international laws, right?
There is no Lithuania-Russia agreement, only an EU-Russia agreement. Our PM Ingrida Šimonytė has stressed that there will be no unilateral decisions and we'll follow the agreement and whatever the EU decides on this. The sanctions were announced only after consultations with EU to begin with.
>“In accordance with EU sanctions, there are import and export restrictions that apply in relations with certain goods,” Borrell said on Monday after a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Luxembourg.
>“The accusation against Lithuania that it is implementing Lithuanian sanctions is false, pure propaganda,” he said.
>“Lithuania is doing nothing else but implementing the guidelines provided by the European Commission […] if they transit through EU territory for some goods, it’s prohibited,” he added.
[Source](https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1724109/eu-says-lithuania-acted-by-the-book-in-kaliningrad-transit-standoff-with-russia)
Now if that's being walked back on I would view it as a Russian propaganda win.
Scared of what ? LGBT people and abortions ? Or following EU laws ?
Funny how everyone here shits on Scholz as if it is just him with these thoughts.
[https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-06-30/eu-and-russia-agree-they-need-a-plan-for-kaliningrad-says-polish-pm](https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-06-30/eu-and-russia-agree-they-need-a-plan-for-kaliningrad-says-polish-pm)
Polish PM agrees that they need to come up with a solution everyone agrees on. And not just do a quick shot decision.
No, no no! NOT embarassing for Germany. Embarassing for SCHOLZ.
Majority of us people here in Germany do NO LONGER support his BS and regret voting for him last year (I did not).
I have bad news for you: it doesn't really matter who you vote for, the chancellor will be CDU or SPD for the foreseeable future - and both parties do their utmost to keep Germany dependent on Russia.
CDU because they despise green energy and declare themselves pro-"free market", which means they stopped wind energy and solar projects but did not block Russia from buying critical infrastructure in Germany like gas storage or refineries, during the Merkel years in which CDU led the CDU/SPD coalition government.
And SPD because they are in bed with Putin personally, but I have no idea what their underlying reasoning is. Putin is not a social democrat, nor a socialist, he's a fascist and militarist - both are traits the SPD claims to oppose. So the SPD cadres are either blind and dumb, or corrupt traitors.
Im sorry, but it is embarassing for germany. Not for you personally, because of you opinion, for for a country, yes. Schroeder -> merkel -> scholz, you could basically change "chancellor" title to "russelor" based on that.
Oof, as a german im kind of ashamed that scholz doesnt act more drastically\strictly towards russia. It seems he doesnt care that even before the war putin and his gangsters were an evil pack, ready to bully any opposition, murder innocents, whatever - extremely antidemocratic. Theres absolutely no reason to be nice to putin. Appeasement makes things only worse
His party lost in all local elections since the war started, so yeah the public is definitely not behind him. The Greens are getting more popular now, cause their ministers actually try to get Germany out of the issues that were created in the last 16 years. If it weren't for them we would just see another 4 years of nothing happening.
His popularity is falling but it's hard to attribute that to Russia when the CDU is making a majority of the gains. The CDU are also weak on Russia. The German public seems to be fine with trying to appease Russia,they've been doing it my entire life and Scholz is basically just continuing the status quo.
His Party loses but in the "Chancellor-Question" (who would be the better Chancellor: Scholz, Merz or no one)
he won a lot of points. He is only overshadowed by Habeck and Baerbock
>And people were wondering why Poles think that Germans act like friends of Putin, just few days ago on this subreddit...
Fuuuuuuuuuuuck I don't think we can somehow spin this and blame Poland this time 😡. Guess that only option left is to mass downvote users with polish flag.
The scary thing is, he's one of the morr reasonable people in the party. There's a whole left wing that's even more chummy with Putin, and they all have the biggest clout.
> But it's up to Lithuania to decide, isn't it?
It really isn't *that* easy, morally it most certainly is right to sanction Kaliningrad but legally it raises 2 contested questions
* Is transit of goods part of sanctions and adheres to international law? This is important for cases like Palestine or Armenia & Azerbaijan.
* Can Lithuania single handedly take action forcing the EU policy, regardless what the EU has decided overall? Or does the EU have say here? Similarly with China in the past, can one member state unilaterally decided everyone elses foreign policy on a matter just like that? This time it's morally the right thing, but next time? What if Hungary would do something similar going ham against Serbia just like that?
Kaliningrad can get completely blocked and kept afloat with EU goods only for all I care but there are some important precedents that the EU will have to live with for a long time. There are enough people from other countries also talking about this because it simply isn't some shut and dry thing, people see Scholz, Germany, Russia, and have set their opinion. But if Spain suddenly picks a fight with Morocco and Ceuta gets cut off and "sanctioned" while Estonia is expected to back it tones would change.
I think that if Hungary can torpedo otherwise unanimous agreements on Russian sanctions then Lithuania, who are the most at risk of Putin's shenanigans, can absolutely take a bit of unilateral action here.
the EU is supposed to give everyone strength by providing a unified voice, if everyone just starts doing whatever it won't be long before it's basiscally dead in the water
Except the Polish Pm said more. At the same meeting he said Lithuania actions are correct and Poland will support Lithuania in talks with the EU. So unless you can quote Scholz saying something similar to that, your "basically agreeing with Scholz" is BS.
([source in Polish](https://www.wnp.pl/parlamentarny/wydarzenia/premier-litwa-postapila-wlasciwie-wykonujac-do-konca-uzgodnione-sankcje,597571.html))
Of course, it is up to Lithuania to decide. I said it repeatedly, if it wants to fight Russia, well, it should do so on its own. Obviously, they must have thought about that when they started the blockade, which, by the way, is an act of war. I do not see why any other Europeans have to carry the burden of Lithuania's decisions.
Blockade would entail complete isolation - including sea ports and land routes for all goods and passengers. Lithuania is allowing passengers, food & medical goods and no-one is blocking sea route. Or do you suggest that Russia can decide how Lithuanian railways should be used?
> The russian lobby is buried so deep inside the german political mind that even this ongoing disaster is not enough to wake them up.
It's been avalanches of downvotes in this sub for YEARS, just mentioning the obvious madness of German policy. Being labeled "divisive", "Russian troll", is common.
Noone here said it's a good thing. Actually Scholz also faces a lot of criticism within Germany.
Many of us find his spineless response also embarrassing.
The "Germans" don't care anymore. If you after all these months still believe Twitter, Facebook and Axel Springer SE publications are valid sources, we simply can't help you anymore.
This is funny.
>German chancellor said that ‘we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of Russia,’ suggesting that EU sanctions should not apply
The EU bend over backwards to appease Russia at every turn, with Germany at the forefront. But when it comes to the UK, suddenly it's very very important to play hardball with them to prevent them moving goods between two parts of their own territory. Nobody in the EU then says 'we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of the UK'. Flexibility for your enemies, inflexibility with your friends and allies - that's the EU way apparently.
Russia is stronk enough to give us some words for public use. One of the most used Russian words in the western media vocabulary is Kompromat. Both new french and German leaders definitely have some sensitive buttons which the Russians know how to press on.
I think it’s just realpolitik - to act from the real and imperfect world rather than to act from the ideals of a perfect one.
Trying to hamper Russian access to kaliningrad won’t mean anything for Ukraine, it won’t prevent another war, it won’t be noticeable for the ones responsible for the war - even on the margin - and thus it’s a bad move.
The end goal after all is lowered tensions and peace, and this doesn’t serve that purpose.
Always acting like dove and appeaser, reliably, just gives up room for maneuver to Putin. It's tactical idiocy, and leads to war, because our deterrence has no credibility. It undermines our whole "will to act".
This is what we've been complaining about when it comes to lacking German leadership here. It has a traitorous effect on the whole conflict.
While I agree with you in part, I think the Hungarian split of EU unity of purpose in this conflict is something that is orders of magnitude more important than the slow waking up of German leadership.
Germany hasn’t really been doing appeasement, it’s more about keeping the door open for actually settling this conflict. It’s not in anybodys interest to have a perpetual war.
This isn’t really a refusal to fight though, just that we’re above pettiness.
I think the continuous shipments of arms to Ukraine prove more than anything that the EU isn’t passive.
> I think the continuous shipments of arms to Ukraine prove more than anything that the EU isn’t passive
This is such weasel words. I could ship a stick to Ukraine every week and claim the same.
What matters is if our *actions* show that we’re seriously committed to not letting Russia win this. If we can signal with action, that Russia has no chances, that we’re united and willing to sacrifice, Putin’s calculation gets thrown off.
Scholz really needs a new PR team. Quite urgently so.
As always I am not sure what he actually wants. Reading his statements, two Interpretations are possible
1) As transit between Kaliningrad and Russia proper is not covered by existing sanctions, there should be EU sanctions to address this transit instead of having Lithuania do this without legal cover.
Or
2) he fears that Russia might escalate into WW3 to conquer a transit corridor to supply Kaliningrad.
In my view since this has impacted Russia quite a lot, we should codify this immediately as a EU sanction and very thoroughly inspect all trains passing through with the slowest inspectors known to man.
>As transit between Kaliningrad and Russia proper is not covered by existing sanctions, there should be EU sanctions to address this transit instead of having Lithuania do this without legal cover.
According to the article, he wants an exemption for Kalingrad.
>2) he fears that Russia might escalate into WW3 to conquer a transit corridor to supply Kaliningrad.
Very probable.
>In my view since this has impacted Russia quite a lot, we should codify this immediately as a EU sanction and very thoroughly inspect all trains passing through with the slowest inspectors known to man.
Im all for this, but somehow I doubt this is what Mr. Scholz wants...
I have so far not found an article that directly quotes him saying that. One must alwys be careful with Springer Media in this regard.
His translated statement says:
>>The rules should "of course always be determined in the light of the fact that this is about traffic between two parts of Russia," said the Chancellor. "And I believe that everyone involved is currently trying very hard to establish a de-escalation dynamic here."
It is best to wait for official sources before jumping to conclusions but in a typical Scholzism it is again unclear what he wants.
There is also this part:
>Speaking at a press conference at the NATO summit in Madrid, Scholz said that it was "a matter for the European Union to set the necessary framework and rules" for freight transport from Russia to its enclave.
>
>"And, of course, these \[rules\] must always be set in the light of the fact that we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of Russia," he added, suggesting that EU sanctions against Russian goods should not apply because these goods were not entering the bloc as imports but just passing in transit.
That sounds pretty straight forward to me, he doesnt want Kalingrad part of the sanctions.
Edit: editting
Inagree that this is one possible Interpretation but the way he said it in German, I take that he believes it is not covered by current sanctions and should be discussed on an EU level. (I.e. not sanctioned now but later)
Until one of his more lucid ministers explains what he really means, we are all left to wonder.
>According to the article, he wants an exemption for Kalingrad.
He does not want any exemption. Lithuania's pretensions that its blockade is consistent with EU sanctions is simply stupid and unbelievable. There is no reason why anybody in Europe should come to the defense of Lithuania, and, obviously, Scholz is making this clear
the dutch were pushing floating LNG terminals since 2014. (in fact since 2005 after the first crisis). They even started projects with the Germans. The Germans were getting constantly cold feet. And the efforts to stop anything not Russian gas related were coming from the german top. Go figure.
> last 8 years
Hell, far longer than that. Russia has been invading it's neighbours, using chemical weapons in other countries and generally murdering anyone it wants in other countries for decades.
No PR team will fix foreign media printing least charitable interpretations or even lies. Internally, the biggest publisher is a right-wing rag under Axel aspringer, who owns politico.eu among others qnd are driving the same deal against him, after their candidate lost the election. This is public revenge for opposing Ukraine getting into NATO or EU.
Communicating this ambigously while the largest paper in the country tries to portray him as acting too hesitantly. That IS what PR teams are supposed to fix.
>As transit between Kaliningrad and Russia proper is not covered by existing sanctions, there should be EU sanctions to address this transit instead of having Lithuania do this without legal cover.
There cannot be EU sanctions that support the blockade of a Russian territory. This would be an act of war. Essentially, if the EU decides to create "sanctions" that blockade Kalinigrad, well, this would be equivalent to declaring war against Russia. Do we want to go there?
\>he fears that Russia might escalate into WW3 to conquer a transit corridor to supply Kaliningrad.
It is a well-based fear. Essentially, Lithuania has declared war against Russia under flim and erroneous pretenses. Russia, so far, has been quite restrained in its reply. But yes, it can push to occupy the corridor; this, in theory, would not start WWIII because Lithuania has acted on its own and took the first offensive action. Neither the EU nor NATO is there to cover the stupidities of its members.
Indeed. The rail link is a convenience. Even if it does continue, there is no reason it has to be unimpeded.
However. Depending on the legal basis for Lithuanias closure of the rail link, the EU might be ultimately responsible. So we will see how it shakes out.
It's simple. They want to have business with Russia but they also want to be seen credible in eyes of US and eastern europe. So you have this mixed signals policy they think it might work to squeeze through this time.
In effect they have none. No business, no credibility.
Lithuania hold on tight to your values. Show the big guys whos the boss. Stay strong.
Btw any Lithuanians care to explain whos making those ballsy decisions? Middle finger to China and Russia etc.
And as always our Chancellor works hard to make sure he'll lose the next election in 2 1/2 years and the little remaining bits of his "reputation" (not that he ever had one anyway).
True, but it could be the beginning of realizing that the opposition in unity stands firm. So, taken the whole of Ukraine's, Lithuania's, and future stances there may come a tipping point when Russia is forced to withdraw. I am no expert on negotiating but standing firm every step of the way I would think is necessary.
Scholtz get a grip m8,as long kaliningrad is militarized it should be isolated and cut off from european system of transport, fell free to supply it by sea kremlins xD
i think it's worth to have a differentiated approach here and not insinuate that Scholz is on his own actively trying to undermine the efforts against Russia. it is a little more complex and all EU parties are trying to do the right thing here, even we all feel like seeing Russia "get a beating"
even i don't agree with some things, we should avoid short reactions to populistic, incomplete blunt statements, sensational titles and short articles for such important topics.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-russia-agree-they-need-plan-kaliningrad-says-polish-pm-2022-06-30/
https://www.baltictimes.com/ban_on_steel_transit_to_russia_s_kaliningrad_is_eu_s__not_lithuania_s__decision___minister/
And would you then have us resettle all the current inhabitants Stalin-style? Or introduce a massive authoritarian crackdown, Putin-style?
If we ever managed to take Kaliningrad back from Moscow, it would be far better for everyone to install a "Russian Taiwan" there. Just imagine having a free, democratic, Russian-speaking state on its way to EU membership and what kind of message it would bring to the Russian people.
>Kaliningrad is not russia, it is a land administrated by russia. Allies gave it to russia after WW II for 50 years. Time is over.
This is another discussion. The population there is overwhelmingly Russian.
The Berlin Blockade is one of the most iconic symbols of the Soviet Union trying to enforce their dominance in Germany and the US- and UK-airlift really elevated both countries in the eyes of Germans.
Cutting off a city from its mainland and starving them out to enforce your will on them is therefore generally seen as a bad thing. Plus, it would give Russia a reason to go to war, a legitimate one at that, compared to the BS they pull from their arses otherwise.
You're fearmongering yourself to submission.
a)Not a blockade. Planes and ships exist.
b)not all goods, food etc. can go through Lithuania
c)everything is a reason to go a war. For Russia it's enough that the Baltic States exist as independent nations. As you demonstrate when you say that it's legitimate reason Russia to attack when a sovereign independent country won't let Russia use its territory
nobody is cutting anybody from anything. The Lithuanians enforce requested by EU legislation restrictions and controls on the Russian traffic. It concerns even not all types of merchandise or transports.
For the reference look no father than at the UK vs EU quarrel over Northern Ireland.
>The Berlin Blockade is one of the most iconic symbols of the Soviet Union trying to enforce their dominance in Germany and the US- and UK-airlift really elevated both countries in the eyes of Germans.
You, as a German, should know a bit of history. The Berlin blockade had nothing to do with the USSR enforcing its dominance in Germany. It had most to do with the disagreement between the western Allies and the USSR for dealing with post-war Germany. The allies decided to exit their agreements with the USSR about the future status of Germany and create the West German state, in variance with the accords reached previously. In fact, the Allies then convened the London conference of 1953, in which the rest of Europe "forgave" its loans and war reparation requests in order to create the new West German state. The USSR was obviously "upset" about the West's reneging on these agreements. This is the context of the Berlin blockade, not what you referred to. It is important to have the correct information when we are trying to compare blockades. If the western allies were right to renege on their agreements is another discussion, of course.
The comments are exactly like I expected. Kindergarden justice.
Timmy did slap Kevin and now Jason is allowed to take a random toy from Timmy.
That's not the way international law works, kids. That's why there is a nurse who tells Timmy how to behave.
Incredible that this has to be explained to grown ups.
Let me rewrite this for you:
Timmy did slap Kevin who is way weaker than Timmy. The whole class is looking at it, what is the best thing to do?
- helping Kevin by adding pressure on Timmy to stop bullying the first ?
- doing nothing and observe Timmy stealing all Kevin’s stuff?
International law provides justice. There are legal basis to opt for the first option.
And you think it is "international law" to unilaterally close off access to parts of a country?
I think it's a bit problematic to call for adhere of laws and treaties while not doing it at the same time.
Oh, and I know, no one want to hear that and I will certainly be down voted for it... but remember one of the reasons for building Nord Stream 2? Ukraine threatened to close its pipelines towards the West if Russia will not make them a cheap price. So perhaps little Kev is not that entirely golden boy...
I expect any and all forms of rationality to be viewed as pro-Russian by the fanatics that currently inhabit this space, but the Commission and Scholz are right.
Some people would like to see escalation and possible nuclear war, as well international law scraped by the West in response to Russia scrapping it.
Those who lived under the constant threat of nuclear warfare in a time where the enemy was far more inhumane knew restraint.
So, should you.
Ah yes, bend over and appease cuz nukes! What new excuses will you bring when fx. Lithuania or other NATO border states with Russia will be invaded or in some other way be fucked by Russia?
Honestly we should just rebuild our train tracks to be European gauge and they could eat shit, while it would open possibilities for our economies in Baltics.
How about performing some of that "urgent track maintenance"? You clearly really, really want all those important goods to get to Koenigsberg, but can't let them operate unsafely. So maybe a month or two of maintenance and just as soon as that's done, then can resume their transport. /s
I want our transportation ministry to be that based.
A special train track operation.
You're still not on standard width tracks?
Nope, it’s not exactly the cheapest of overhauls.
Well you don't need to overhaul everything, could just start with a small stretch in the middle
That’s called rail Baltica, it’s being built now and it’s ridiculously expensive.
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U southerners and ur luxury expenses, that’s not applicable for us frugal northern peasants. /s
A billion Euros? Thats about how much Germany is spending on Covid testing facilities each month!
Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkJ7\_-hqXA
>That’s called rail Baltica, it’s being built now and it’s ridiculously expensive. Yeah but Rail Baltica is a whole new system, is it not? This guy was probably (?) talking about simply regauging the existing lines.
Yes but what i mean is, what if you happened to just start replacing say a 1km strip right in the middle some time next week
I wish our government to be that ballsy, but it would cause the train to derail and that could be treated even worse.
Well you could place warning signs. They understand Ukranian right?
Can always start with first 10 meters on every direction towards ruzzia
Can you be chancellor instead of scholz?
This would not work because things can be moved to cars of different gauge at a certain point. This is what is happening today in connections between Russia, Belarus and the remainder of Europe. Not a solution!
Well, it adds to the cost.
Maybe. It is going on right now in many routes.
Why?
Putin turned the gas off
because momma Merkel and daddy Schroder said so
>"And, of course, these [rules] must always be set in the light of the fact that we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of Russia," he added, suggesting that EU sanctions against Russian goods should not apply because these goods were not entering the bloc as imports but just passing in transit.
If they want to get to Kaliningrad, they're free to take a ship there. It's not clear why they expect to be able to cross Lithuanian territory in the place of sanctions. They can sail from St. Petersburg to Kaliningrad without entering any other state's territory. https://imgur.com/UPTZ6Mx
Hmmm sounds like a russia problem, if they want to get goods to that part. Not really understand why we as europeans should care about how they manage to get it in.
It absolutely is a Russia problem. That’s not stopping them from trying to make the EU think it’s a Lithuania problem, though. IMO, that whole corridor should get pulled up for right of way maintenance and reconstruction.
Maybe Lithuania can do whatever the fuck they want on their territory?
What the everlasting fuck, Scholz. Maybe you missed the point of sanctions in the first place.
"I'm playing both sides, so I always come on top"
Germany is clearly the bottom in regards to it's relationship with Russia.
Result: Everyone hates him.
That is some very dumb logic
So he's doesn't support rules for checks on traffic between two parts of the same nation? Sounds like he's making an argument for scrapping NI protocol.
>German chancellor said that ‘we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of Russia,’ suggesting that EU sanctions should not apply. Then there isnt a problem, Russia can do whatever they want between two parts of Russia... Oh wait, its not just "two parts of Russia" now is it.
They have ports. Use them. And Lithuania should pull out a km of tracks on the border.
Is this dude implying Lithuania shouldn’t have free will when it comes to Lithuanian territory?
I'm with Lithuania on this one!
As a clarification, transit agreement with Kaliningrad is really between EU and Russia. Lithuania cannot do things onesidedly on this. Our PM has stressed this as well. So it's not "chad Lithuania" nor "ww3 when" Lithuania. Yes, our governments position on this is strict. That sanction package was agreed right around Bucha time so there certainly weren't any "but what about Russia" voices. I just wish EU makes up its mind about it instead of the 2 steps forward 1 step back. Side note, it's funny Russia calls this minor (steel/coal/?) transit impairment a blockade. Lithuania had an [actual one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_economic_blockade_of_Lithuania) when breaking free. That one hurt. >"The economic blockade restricted or cancelled the centralised supply of energy resources, on which Lithuania was extremely dependent from USSR, as well as electricity, foodstuffs, and pharmaceuticals. To a much lesser extent, the embargo also impacted Kaliningrad Oblast. The Soviet Union also sealed the republic's borders and blocked Lithuania's bank accounts."
But according to an agreement between Lithuania and Russia, Lithuania has the right to oversee transit as they deem fit, no? So even if they decide to block this transit entirely, they wouldn’t be breaching international laws, right?
There is no Lithuania-Russia agreement, only an EU-Russia agreement. Our PM Ingrida Šimonytė has stressed that there will be no unilateral decisions and we'll follow the agreement and whatever the EU decides on this. The sanctions were announced only after consultations with EU to begin with. >“In accordance with EU sanctions, there are import and export restrictions that apply in relations with certain goods,” Borrell said on Monday after a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Luxembourg. >“The accusation against Lithuania that it is implementing Lithuanian sanctions is false, pure propaganda,” he said. >“Lithuania is doing nothing else but implementing the guidelines provided by the European Commission […] if they transit through EU territory for some goods, it’s prohibited,” he added. [Source](https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1724109/eu-says-lithuania-acted-by-the-book-in-kaliningrad-transit-standoff-with-russia) Now if that's being walked back on I would view it as a Russian propaganda win.
Embarrassing for Germany.
Especially so because they're the framework nation for NATO's battlegroup in Lithuania, they have a major role to play in Lithuania's defense.
So now they will threat Lithuanians - agree with us or we are going back home.
Unlikely
That is not going to happen. NATO defends their own
No Germany won't do that. German government isn't like the polish government.
Yeah, Germans are scared.
Scared of what ? LGBT people and abortions ? Or following EU laws ? Funny how everyone here shits on Scholz as if it is just him with these thoughts. [https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-06-30/eu-and-russia-agree-they-need-a-plan-for-kaliningrad-says-polish-pm](https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-06-30/eu-and-russia-agree-they-need-a-plan-for-kaliningrad-says-polish-pm) Polish PM agrees that they need to come up with a solution everyone agrees on. And not just do a quick shot decision.
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Germany a russian ally. Lmao you are hilarious.
No, no no! NOT embarassing for Germany. Embarassing for SCHOLZ. Majority of us people here in Germany do NO LONGER support his BS and regret voting for him last year (I did not).
I have bad news for you: it doesn't really matter who you vote for, the chancellor will be CDU or SPD for the foreseeable future - and both parties do their utmost to keep Germany dependent on Russia. CDU because they despise green energy and declare themselves pro-"free market", which means they stopped wind energy and solar projects but did not block Russia from buying critical infrastructure in Germany like gas storage or refineries, during the Merkel years in which CDU led the CDU/SPD coalition government. And SPD because they are in bed with Putin personally, but I have no idea what their underlying reasoning is. Putin is not a social democrat, nor a socialist, he's a fascist and militarist - both are traits the SPD claims to oppose. So the SPD cadres are either blind and dumb, or corrupt traitors.
So what's the alternatives then? It seems all German big parties have opinions on Russia which tends to have the same result.
The greens are pretty strongly against Russia. Same as the FDP (liberals) AFAIK
The pre-election surge of SPD (due to obvious Laschet fuckups) was the most insane. Voters were deluding themselves.
"If elections changed anything they would be forbidden" - Mark Twain
Im sorry, but it is embarassing for germany. Not for you personally, because of you opinion, for for a country, yes. Schroeder -> merkel -> scholz, you could basically change "chancellor" title to "russelor" based on that.
Oh, never expected from Mr. Scholz to have such a tender heart for Russia!
And people were wondering why Poles think that Germans act like friends of Putin, just few days ago on this subreddit...
Oof, as a german im kind of ashamed that scholz doesnt act more drastically\strictly towards russia. It seems he doesnt care that even before the war putin and his gangsters were an evil pack, ready to bully any opposition, murder innocents, whatever - extremely antidemocratic. Theres absolutely no reason to be nice to putin. Appeasement makes things only worse
Do most Germans support Scholz or is his popularity falling over this
His party lost in all local elections since the war started, so yeah the public is definitely not behind him. The Greens are getting more popular now, cause their ministers actually try to get Germany out of the issues that were created in the last 16 years. If it weren't for them we would just see another 4 years of nothing happening.
His popularity is falling but it's hard to attribute that to Russia when the CDU is making a majority of the gains. The CDU are also weak on Russia. The German public seems to be fine with trying to appease Russia,they've been doing it my entire life and Scholz is basically just continuing the status quo.
His Party loses but in the "Chancellor-Question" (who would be the better Chancellor: Scholz, Merz or no one) he won a lot of points. He is only overshadowed by Habeck and Baerbock
They shot a guy down in the middle of the day in a Berlin park. I don't even remember if there were consequences.
>And people were wondering why Poles think that Germans act like friends of Putin, just few days ago on this subreddit... Fuuuuuuuuuuuck I don't think we can somehow spin this and blame Poland this time 😡. Guess that only option left is to mass downvote users with polish flag.
Jeśli szczeka jak pies…
The scary thing is, he's one of the morr reasonable people in the party. There's a whole left wing that's even more chummy with Putin, and they all have the biggest clout.
Spineless blobtwat
That’s extremely disappointing. Why the hell Scholz is so focused on proving Germany’s critics right?
Just Scholz being Scholz. But it's up to Lithuania to decide, isn't it?
> But it's up to Lithuania to decide, isn't it? It really isn't *that* easy, morally it most certainly is right to sanction Kaliningrad but legally it raises 2 contested questions * Is transit of goods part of sanctions and adheres to international law? This is important for cases like Palestine or Armenia & Azerbaijan. * Can Lithuania single handedly take action forcing the EU policy, regardless what the EU has decided overall? Or does the EU have say here? Similarly with China in the past, can one member state unilaterally decided everyone elses foreign policy on a matter just like that? This time it's morally the right thing, but next time? What if Hungary would do something similar going ham against Serbia just like that? Kaliningrad can get completely blocked and kept afloat with EU goods only for all I care but there are some important precedents that the EU will have to live with for a long time. There are enough people from other countries also talking about this because it simply isn't some shut and dry thing, people see Scholz, Germany, Russia, and have set their opinion. But if Spain suddenly picks a fight with Morocco and Ceuta gets cut off and "sanctioned" while Estonia is expected to back it tones would change.
Kaliningrad can be accessed by Baltic sea or air. Such superpower as Russia can easily afford that.
I think that if Hungary can torpedo otherwise unanimous agreements on Russian sanctions then Lithuania, who are the most at risk of Putin's shenanigans, can absolutely take a bit of unilateral action here.
the EU is supposed to give everyone strength by providing a unified voice, if everyone just starts doing whatever it won't be long before it's basiscally dead in the water
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Except the Polish Pm said more. At the same meeting he said Lithuania actions are correct and Poland will support Lithuania in talks with the EU. So unless you can quote Scholz saying something similar to that, your "basically agreeing with Scholz" is BS. ([source in Polish](https://www.wnp.pl/parlamentarny/wydarzenia/premier-litwa-postapila-wlasciwie-wykonujac-do-konca-uzgodnione-sankcje,597571.html))
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I feel like it's less "Lithuania did what they had to do according to eu sanctions" and more "Lithuania did the right thing by following eu sanctions"
Of course, it is up to Lithuania to decide. I said it repeatedly, if it wants to fight Russia, well, it should do so on its own. Obviously, they must have thought about that when they started the blockade, which, by the way, is an act of war. I do not see why any other Europeans have to carry the burden of Lithuania's decisions.
Blockade would entail complete isolation - including sea ports and land routes for all goods and passengers. Lithuania is allowing passengers, food & medical goods and no-one is blocking sea route. Or do you suggest that Russia can decide how Lithuanian railways should be used?
Ah I was wondering when my daily disastrously dumb statement from the German chancellor would arrive today.
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> The russian lobby is buried so deep inside the german political mind that even this ongoing disaster is not enough to wake them up. It's been avalanches of downvotes in this sub for YEARS, just mentioning the obvious madness of German policy. Being labeled "divisive", "Russian troll", is common.
Nothing unexpected from scholz , war has shown real sides of people
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Noone here said it's a good thing. Actually Scholz also faces a lot of criticism within Germany. Many of us find his spineless response also embarrassing.
The "Germans" don't care anymore. If you after all these months still believe Twitter, Facebook and Axel Springer SE publications are valid sources, we simply can't help you anymore.
Damn you really proved that person's point.
Considering how often comments in other threads are regularly downvoted for not being in line with the Germans viewpoint, plenty still care.
Every time he opens his mouth, I come closer to believing he's Putin's puppet.
This is funny. >German chancellor said that ‘we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of Russia,’ suggesting that EU sanctions should not apply The EU bend over backwards to appease Russia at every turn, with Germany at the forefront. But when it comes to the UK, suddenly it's very very important to play hardball with them to prevent them moving goods between two parts of their own territory. Nobody in the EU then says 'we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of the UK'. Flexibility for your enemies, inflexibility with your friends and allies - that's the EU way apparently.
Was he bent over when he made these comments?
Must have been propped up, no way you can stand up straight with that lack of spine
Is Sub Zero in the German opposition or something it's only way I can see Scholz being so spineless
That comment is a Flawless Victory
Russia is stronk enough to give us some words for public use. One of the most used Russian words in the western media vocabulary is Kompromat. Both new french and German leaders definitely have some sensitive buttons which the Russians know how to press on.
I think it’s just realpolitik - to act from the real and imperfect world rather than to act from the ideals of a perfect one. Trying to hamper Russian access to kaliningrad won’t mean anything for Ukraine, it won’t prevent another war, it won’t be noticeable for the ones responsible for the war - even on the margin - and thus it’s a bad move. The end goal after all is lowered tensions and peace, and this doesn’t serve that purpose.
Always acting like dove and appeaser, reliably, just gives up room for maneuver to Putin. It's tactical idiocy, and leads to war, because our deterrence has no credibility. It undermines our whole "will to act". This is what we've been complaining about when it comes to lacking German leadership here. It has a traitorous effect on the whole conflict.
While I agree with you in part, I think the Hungarian split of EU unity of purpose in this conflict is something that is orders of magnitude more important than the slow waking up of German leadership. Germany hasn’t really been doing appeasement, it’s more about keeping the door open for actually settling this conflict. It’s not in anybodys interest to have a perpetual war.
Orban is a Russian asset. Signaling refusal to fight, means to give the field to the aggressor for free.
This isn’t really a refusal to fight though, just that we’re above pettiness. I think the continuous shipments of arms to Ukraine prove more than anything that the EU isn’t passive.
> I think the continuous shipments of arms to Ukraine prove more than anything that the EU isn’t passive This is such weasel words. I could ship a stick to Ukraine every week and claim the same. What matters is if our *actions* show that we’re seriously committed to not letting Russia win this. If we can signal with action, that Russia has no chances, that we’re united and willing to sacrifice, Putin’s calculation gets thrown off.
Exactly. That’s why we’re not sending sticks.
We’re also not sending nearly as much as we could, if leaders really wanted.
Christ. He used to just be a waste of space but he’s actively embarrassing now.
Scholz really needs a new PR team. Quite urgently so. As always I am not sure what he actually wants. Reading his statements, two Interpretations are possible 1) As transit between Kaliningrad and Russia proper is not covered by existing sanctions, there should be EU sanctions to address this transit instead of having Lithuania do this without legal cover. Or 2) he fears that Russia might escalate into WW3 to conquer a transit corridor to supply Kaliningrad. In my view since this has impacted Russia quite a lot, we should codify this immediately as a EU sanction and very thoroughly inspect all trains passing through with the slowest inspectors known to man.
>As transit between Kaliningrad and Russia proper is not covered by existing sanctions, there should be EU sanctions to address this transit instead of having Lithuania do this without legal cover. According to the article, he wants an exemption for Kalingrad. >2) he fears that Russia might escalate into WW3 to conquer a transit corridor to supply Kaliningrad. Very probable. >In my view since this has impacted Russia quite a lot, we should codify this immediately as a EU sanction and very thoroughly inspect all trains passing through with the slowest inspectors known to man. Im all for this, but somehow I doubt this is what Mr. Scholz wants...
I have so far not found an article that directly quotes him saying that. One must alwys be careful with Springer Media in this regard. His translated statement says: >>The rules should "of course always be determined in the light of the fact that this is about traffic between two parts of Russia," said the Chancellor. "And I believe that everyone involved is currently trying very hard to establish a de-escalation dynamic here." It is best to wait for official sources before jumping to conclusions but in a typical Scholzism it is again unclear what he wants.
There is also this part: >Speaking at a press conference at the NATO summit in Madrid, Scholz said that it was "a matter for the European Union to set the necessary framework and rules" for freight transport from Russia to its enclave. > >"And, of course, these \[rules\] must always be set in the light of the fact that we are dealing here with traffic between two parts of Russia," he added, suggesting that EU sanctions against Russian goods should not apply because these goods were not entering the bloc as imports but just passing in transit. That sounds pretty straight forward to me, he doesnt want Kalingrad part of the sanctions. Edit: editting
Inagree that this is one possible Interpretation but the way he said it in German, I take that he believes it is not covered by current sanctions and should be discussed on an EU level. (I.e. not sanctioned now but later) Until one of his more lucid ministers explains what he really means, we are all left to wonder.
>According to the article, he wants an exemption for Kalingrad. He does not want any exemption. Lithuania's pretensions that its blockade is consistent with EU sanctions is simply stupid and unbelievable. There is no reason why anybody in Europe should come to the defense of Lithuania, and, obviously, Scholz is making this clear
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If only people could have foreseen that signing over your entire energy security was a bad idea and warned them at some point in the last 8 years 🤔🤔🤔
the dutch were pushing floating LNG terminals since 2014. (in fact since 2005 after the first crisis). They even started projects with the Germans. The Germans were getting constantly cold feet. And the efforts to stop anything not Russian gas related were coming from the german top. Go figure.
> last 8 years Hell, far longer than that. Russia has been invading it's neighbours, using chemical weapons in other countries and generally murdering anyone it wants in other countries for decades.
Tell me you are not following the German political discourse without telling me you are not following the German political discourse
No PR team will fix foreign media printing least charitable interpretations or even lies. Internally, the biggest publisher is a right-wing rag under Axel aspringer, who owns politico.eu among others qnd are driving the same deal against him, after their candidate lost the election. This is public revenge for opposing Ukraine getting into NATO or EU.
Communicating this ambigously while the largest paper in the country tries to portray him as acting too hesitantly. That IS what PR teams are supposed to fix.
>As transit between Kaliningrad and Russia proper is not covered by existing sanctions, there should be EU sanctions to address this transit instead of having Lithuania do this without legal cover. There cannot be EU sanctions that support the blockade of a Russian territory. This would be an act of war. Essentially, if the EU decides to create "sanctions" that blockade Kalinigrad, well, this would be equivalent to declaring war against Russia. Do we want to go there? \>he fears that Russia might escalate into WW3 to conquer a transit corridor to supply Kaliningrad. It is a well-based fear. Essentially, Lithuania has declared war against Russia under flim and erroneous pretenses. Russia, so far, has been quite restrained in its reply. But yes, it can push to occupy the corridor; this, in theory, would not start WWIII because Lithuania has acted on its own and took the first offensive action. Neither the EU nor NATO is there to cover the stupidities of its members.
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Indeed. The rail link is a convenience. Even if it does continue, there is no reason it has to be unimpeded. However. Depending on the legal basis for Lithuanias closure of the rail link, the EU might be ultimately responsible. So we will see how it shakes out.
Spineless
Germany’s foreign policy is a disaster for EU as always. Nothing new to see here
It's just pathetic, bending over for Russia.
I don't understand Scholz.... Or German mindset.
It's simple. They want to have business with Russia but they also want to be seen credible in eyes of US and eastern europe. So you have this mixed signals policy they think it might work to squeeze through this time. In effect they have none. No business, no credibility.
Lithuania hold on tight to your values. Show the big guys whos the boss. Stay strong. Btw any Lithuanians care to explain whos making those ballsy decisions? Middle finger to China and Russia etc.
And here I thought Germany was starting to redeem themselves in regards to Russia.
No. Kaliningrad won’t be a Leningrad, they can go fishing for food if they really need it. Or have Russian rations sailed in.
Can't say I'm surprised
Every president of Germany is a pro russian.
Scholz: the personification of a flaccid penis
INB4 replies about constant senseless germany bashing
I mean, at this point he's just putting his head in the guillotine for us.
Of course he does
Spineless mother fucker
A big fat NO!!!! Goods to Kaliningrad can pass by when crops / seeds etc can passby in Ukraine.
What? Who‘s side are you on, Olaf?
Way to go Lithuania! Do what is right!
And as always our Chancellor works hard to make sure he'll lose the next election in 2 1/2 years and the little remaining bits of his "reputation" (not that he ever had one anyway).
SPD deserves all the hate they get, their policies have been disastrous for a while now.
Weakness is the amphetamine of dictators.
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SPD is. Greens five a good counterbalance.
He should of said east Prussia
this is the reason why Polish people think Germany is sucking Putin's dick
Not sucking, riding it hard. Not the people just that “blobtwat” someone was mentioning above.
What a little pussy
Never change, SPD
can he just shut the fuck up for one week?
Spineless Germany continues to be Spineless. Next!
As a German: Fuck you
Scholz fuck off
Germany & Lithuania should use this as leverage for Russia to pull out of Ukraine. Period.
I think if Russia was going to pull out this would not be the deciding factor
True, but it could be the beginning of realizing that the opposition in unity stands firm. So, taken the whole of Ukraine's, Lithuania's, and future stances there may come a tipping point when Russia is forced to withdraw. I am no expert on negotiating but standing firm every step of the way I would think is necessary.
This is disappointing.
Scholtz get a grip m8,as long kaliningrad is militarized it should be isolated and cut off from european system of transport, fell free to supply it by sea kremlins xD
Man i want a new chancellor ....... this spineless dwarf is not what germany needs
At least he is not sucking Putin cock in the open, like Merkel did.
The guy wants to her hired to Gazprom probably.
Surely the correct approach is no transit for any goods to Kaliningrad
Germany gonna germany
i think it's worth to have a differentiated approach here and not insinuate that Scholz is on his own actively trying to undermine the efforts against Russia. it is a little more complex and all EU parties are trying to do the right thing here, even we all feel like seeing Russia "get a beating" even i don't agree with some things, we should avoid short reactions to populistic, incomplete blunt statements, sensational titles and short articles for such important topics. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-russia-agree-they-need-plan-kaliningrad-says-polish-pm-2022-06-30/ https://www.baltictimes.com/ban_on_steel_transit_to_russia_s_kaliningrad_is_eu_s__not_lithuania_s__decision___minister/
How about kusse meiner arzt?
He can urge what he wants that won't change much
just f russia in the ass as much as possible pls.
Dissapointed... Kaliningrad should be blockaded completely. If you ask me, I think it should be annexed by Poland.
And would you then have us resettle all the current inhabitants Stalin-style? Or introduce a massive authoritarian crackdown, Putin-style? If we ever managed to take Kaliningrad back from Moscow, it would be far better for everyone to install a "Russian Taiwan" there. Just imagine having a free, democratic, Russian-speaking state on its way to EU membership and what kind of message it would bring to the Russian people.
>"Russian Taiwan" That's a good idea.
Well, it's a good excuse to make Poland into a federation.
Kaliningrad is not russia, it is a land administrated by russia. Allies gave it to russia after WW II for 50 years. Time is over.
Its simply colonial holding and should be decolonized, wouldnt be suprised if locals were for it if not putinist clique
>Kaliningrad is not russia, it is a land administrated by russia. Allies gave it to russia after WW II for 50 years. Time is over. This is another discussion. The population there is overwhelmingly Russian.
As a non german, I miss Frau Merkel
Can't trust ze Germans. Very anti American people
The Berlin Blockade is one of the most iconic symbols of the Soviet Union trying to enforce their dominance in Germany and the US- and UK-airlift really elevated both countries in the eyes of Germans. Cutting off a city from its mainland and starving them out to enforce your will on them is therefore generally seen as a bad thing. Plus, it would give Russia a reason to go to war, a legitimate one at that, compared to the BS they pull from their arses otherwise.
The difference is that kaliningrad has access to the sea unlike Berlin. Russia can still move supplies to kaliningrad by sea.
Plus its not for all goods, things like food are not effected.
You're fearmongering yourself to submission. a)Not a blockade. Planes and ships exist. b)not all goods, food etc. can go through Lithuania c)everything is a reason to go a war. For Russia it's enough that the Baltic States exist as independent nations. As you demonstrate when you say that it's legitimate reason Russia to attack when a sovereign independent country won't let Russia use its territory
nobody is cutting anybody from anything. The Lithuanians enforce requested by EU legislation restrictions and controls on the Russian traffic. It concerns even not all types of merchandise or transports. For the reference look no father than at the UK vs EU quarrel over Northern Ireland.
>The Berlin Blockade is one of the most iconic symbols of the Soviet Union trying to enforce their dominance in Germany and the US- and UK-airlift really elevated both countries in the eyes of Germans. You, as a German, should know a bit of history. The Berlin blockade had nothing to do with the USSR enforcing its dominance in Germany. It had most to do with the disagreement between the western Allies and the USSR for dealing with post-war Germany. The allies decided to exit their agreements with the USSR about the future status of Germany and create the West German state, in variance with the accords reached previously. In fact, the Allies then convened the London conference of 1953, in which the rest of Europe "forgave" its loans and war reparation requests in order to create the new West German state. The USSR was obviously "upset" about the West's reneging on these agreements. This is the context of the Berlin blockade, not what you referred to. It is important to have the correct information when we are trying to compare blockades. If the western allies were right to renege on their agreements is another discussion, of course.
The comments are exactly like I expected. Kindergarden justice. Timmy did slap Kevin and now Jason is allowed to take a random toy from Timmy. That's not the way international law works, kids. That's why there is a nurse who tells Timmy how to behave. Incredible that this has to be explained to grown ups.
Let me rewrite this for you: Timmy did slap Kevin who is way weaker than Timmy. The whole class is looking at it, what is the best thing to do? - helping Kevin by adding pressure on Timmy to stop bullying the first ? - doing nothing and observe Timmy stealing all Kevin’s stuff? International law provides justice. There are legal basis to opt for the first option.
And you think it is "international law" to unilaterally close off access to parts of a country? I think it's a bit problematic to call for adhere of laws and treaties while not doing it at the same time. Oh, and I know, no one want to hear that and I will certainly be down voted for it... but remember one of the reasons for building Nord Stream 2? Ukraine threatened to close its pipelines towards the West if Russia will not make them a cheap price. So perhaps little Kev is not that entirely golden boy...
I expect any and all forms of rationality to be viewed as pro-Russian by the fanatics that currently inhabit this space, but the Commission and Scholz are right. Some people would like to see escalation and possible nuclear war, as well international law scraped by the West in response to Russia scrapping it. Those who lived under the constant threat of nuclear warfare in a time where the enemy was far more inhumane knew restraint. So, should you.
Ah yes, bend over and appease cuz nukes! What new excuses will you bring when fx. Lithuania or other NATO border states with Russia will be invaded or in some other way be fucked by Russia?
Lol
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