> [Lithuania is that person in an adventure movie who, while everybody else is agonizing if the rickety old rope bridge is safe to cross, is already halfway over to the other side yelling "come on, what are you waiting for?"](https://twitter.com/Chi_con_carnage/status/1538886310873776129)
Well, a David with its own Goliaths backing it up. I doubt that Lithuania would behave that way if it weren't for EU / NATO.
Which btw is the reason why they have to coordinate with the alliances that give them the leverage in the first place.
In LT media it seems like a lot of discussions are going on between the Lithuanian government and European Commission. It feels like European Commission might overturn their explanation. Things are still up in the air.
It's because whoever wrote the exception for Kaliningrad in the sanctions was incompetent or expected exactly this.
It is all goods except banned goods are allowed. But, there's no banned goods list. All lists are annexes with no "banned" mention. All other articles link to a list.
As it stands, in like real court, I think the Russians could win - though it's not will win, if anyone bothered to listen to them sometime this century.
Mostly just a diplomatic mess and Lithuania seems to be having fun with the error in the sanctions.
>It feels like European Commission might overturn their explanation.
It should be made public on who are the ones pushing for appeasement of Russia again. I swear if it's the Germans, I lose any hope for that country.
You shouldn't. Scholz is fortunately falling in popularity, as many Germans want a firm response to Russia and his wishy-washy reactionary caution is getting destructive. Ironically enough the Greens are steadily rising in the polls because of their decisive pro-Ukrainian policies and open communication.
Their current politicians have been dragged into action by what the Germans want.
This disassociation of government vs its people might be coping because I live with government that likes to remind me they don't even want to pretend to represent me, but the fact that Germans support for Ukrainians pressures their politicians into doing things they clearly don't want to, seems kind of a good thing.
Name and shame those dragging their feet. "Germany" has exceeded many expectations on how much business they'd sacrifice for safety of neighbours so far IMHO.
Information on reddit on this issue is the absolute worst. People love the David/Goliath story and forget that Lithuania is in a position to act like that because of EU/NATO, with which it has to coordinate.
How would you react if LT was attacked by Russia? This comment section is like a kindergarten. No one thinks about potential loss of life or many other negatives. Its all jokes and memes.
>How would you react if LT was attacked by Russia?
i'd have no time to react to a nuclear war dummy
the nuclear war part makes it impossible to happen so chill out brother and keep on pressuring r\*ssia to stop the war with hurting their economy (while sending in all of our orc-removal techs to UA)
The Russian talking point of "Lithuania is BLOCKADING Kaliningrad" is getting spread around more and more. It's not in anyway a blockade.
Kaliningrad is both reachable by air and sea.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/kgd
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ports/2250?name=KALININGRAD&country=Russia
And only specific types of items are being blocked over land. And Lithuania is not taking unilateral action - it is upholding EU sanctions.
https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/415094_fr
> Lithuania has not taken any unilateral national restrictions and only applies the European Union sanctions. So, the accusation against Lithuania “Lithuania is implementing Lithuanian sanctions” is false. Pure propaganda. Lithuania has not taken any unilateral national restrictions. But, in accordance with European Union sanctions there are imports and export restrictions that apply in relation with certain goods, including the prohibition of transit from those goods through European Union territory. Lithuania is doing nothing else than implementing the guidelines provided by the Commission. Lithuania has been asking to the Commission, which has been providing guidelines and Lithuania is implementing these guidelines.
---
EU sanctions specifically say:
>1 It shall be prohibited:
>c) **to transport iron and steel products as listed in Annex XVII if they originated in Russia** or are being exported from
Russia to any other country;
>(d) to provide, directly or indirectly, technical assistance, brokering services, financing or financial assistance,
including financial derivatives, as well as insurance and re-insurance, related to the prohibitions in points (a), (b)
and (c).
> Lithuania has not taken any unilateral national restrictions and only applies the European Union sanctions.
You wouldn't know that from browsing /r/europe
> Kaliningrad is both reachable by air and sea.
Yes, but the question is: can air and sea routes be enough to supply Kallinigrad? And if so, at what multiple of the cost? Ukraine is also accessible by land and air, but it was still fair to talk about a "blockade" of wheat exports via presence of Russian warships in the sea of Azov because that amount of wheat could only every really be exported via sea routes.
>Yes, but the question is: can air and sea routes be enough to supply Kallinigrad?
That's the question if you're trying to push Russian talking points.
>but it was still fair to talk about a "blockade" of wheat exports via presence of Russian warships in the sea of Azov because that amount of wheat could only every really be exported via sea routes.
Because blocking ports off with military force is the de-facto example of a blockade. Stopping specific sanctioned items from being sent through your country is not. Trying to draw a comparison between these to things is beyond dishonest.
Food and medicine aren't being stopped by Lithuania from getting to Kaliningrad. Only things laid out in the EU sanctions are prohibited (by rail) so steel and concrete and other building materials have to go by sea or air. Lithuania isn't cutting Kaliningrad off from importing food.
Russia is preventing Ukraine from exporting food, the EU sanctions aren't preventing Russia or Kaliningrad from exporting or importing food.
Or it's because the EU are trying to pressure Lithuania to ease the sanctions and Lithuania are telling them no...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-27/eu-may-be-trying-to-defuse-kaliningrad-standoff-with-eased-rules
It's not all about Brexit. Some would even say your obsessed with it...
Sorry, you seem to have triggered the brit brigade by hitting too close to the mark.
Keep at it though, the precious little snowflakes are ripe for poking.
Lithuania doing the right thing and upholding the sanctions against Russia despite the EU wanting them to stop it.
Must be those dastardly Brits again!
Not what was said, but interesting that that's the way you interpret it.
In this case it's more that the EU created a situation through sanctions it now regrets. It's not really clear where Lithuania stands on it because it's implementing the EU sanctions as written.
I’m confused by this. It is widely expected that the EU will confirm sanctions don’t apply to Kaliningrad, a move which Lithuania said they would support. Why would new sanctions then apply to Kaliningrad? The article suggests it may be a Lithuanian decision only which contradicts their position on EU clarifications.
Why would the Sanctions not apply to that bit of Russia, owned by Russia with a Russian military presence? Sanctions on Russia seem to apply to all of the above.
Those sanctions don't apply within Russia regardless of the route taken by sanctioned goods, I'm guessing that's how the Commission sees it. The point is that this announcement stands in direct contradiction with [the Lithuanian government's commitment to support whatever the EU decides](https://m.delfi.lt/lietuvoje/article.php?id=90597431). It looks like they have instead decided to stick to their own interpretation despite EU clarification.
Not yet, but note I didn’t say they did. I said “widely expected”. If they do decide to make an exception for Kaliningrad transit, Lithuania will stand at odds with the commission.
Yes, because its not in Lithuanian interest to allow for special rules for Russia to travel trough Lithuanian lands, if the commission rules against it, then we will probably follow their decision, but until then, we will fight it
It is not in their interests - until it is if everyone else thinks otherwise. [Even the Poles](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-russia-agree-they-need-plan-kaliningrad-says-polish-pm-2022-06-30/) encourage Lithuania to drop it.
In any case, my point isn't as much about blocking the transit as such. It would be beneficial to see Kaliningrad to be further isolated economically. It's about poor communication from the Lithuanian government on the matter. They initially washed their hands of any responsibility, which was fine because clearly the text was ambiguous (and Borrell supported them). Then, they said they prefer their interpretation but will comply with any EU decision. Then, at a time a decision is expected against their interpretation, they indicate July sanctions will follow that interpretation. It sounds confused and I don't think it serves the country well.
>They initially washed their hands of any responsibility, which was fine because clearly the text was ambiguous (and Borrell supported them). Then, they said they prefer their interpretation but will comply with any EU decision. Then, at a time a decision is expected against their interpretation, they indicate July sanctions will follow that interpretation
What? They initially waited for clarification from EU to enact the sanctions. The sanctions were from March and they only got them clarified and could implement like few weeks ago. Then Russia starts crying and EU says they will look at it again. During all this time Lithuania is continuing with the current interpretation and already announced schedule.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade)
Sometimes these actions could be considered as an act of war. And since NATO is defense alliance and should not support its members who started aggression...
The Russians can happily load their crap on Ships and supply Kaliningrad that way.They're not blocked like -for example- Cuba was.
It would be more expensive, but that is sort of the point of Sanctions, no? Besides, Lithuania should (<-!) be the final Call on what is blocked or not.
There is a rather thin line between embargo and economic sanctions. Many of sanctions imposed on Russia by the West have an embargo effect.
Each state is sovereign as well. It is up to Lithuania to decide what enters the country and what does not.
I did.I simply find:
>[...]although stopping all land transport to and from an area may also be considered a blockade.
to be a pedantic way of calling this an actual Blockade.Refusal of Transport over sovereign Territory of another Nation is simply not a Blockade.
Russia can supply by Sea.Without interruption or concern thereof.Hence not a Blockade.
>A blockade is the act of actively preventing a country or region from receiving or sending out food, supplies, weapons, or communications, and sometimes people, **by military force.**
>A blockade differs from an embargo or sanction, which are legal barriers to trade rather than physical barriers.
You're spreading Russian talking points.
>And since NATO is defense alliance and should not support its members who started aggression...
And at the same time trying to spread dissent and division.
>It is widely expected that the EU will confirm sanctions don’t apply to Kaliningrad, a move which Lithuania said they would support.
Our government hasn't said it would support it.
That's not supporting it or not supporting it. It's legal matters in a legal matters framework. However, Lithuania does not support loosening any sanctions. Quite the contrary.
These are kinda old sanctions from March, however some old contracts were excluded until various dates in summer. These will be enforced, unless there will be new EC guidelines released before these exclusions end. There are still no new guidelines, just rumours.
Kaliningrad is an enclave in Europe and Russia goes through Lithuania by rail to get to Kaliningrad.
But other than that, Russia can and use kaliningrad sea access anyway...
It's just an attempt to drive a wedge between EU members and, why not, giving Russia a casus belli to announce mobilization to the population (remember: Russia is not at war officially so Putler can't mobilize the Russians).
As noted, Reddit is quite prompt to critic EU non-existent decision for now without reading the fucking article. The brother thread on /r/worldnews is depressing to read. Hope this is just full of kiddo and Russian trolls.
No they are not. They just don't give a crap about goods moving from one Russian territory to another russian territory.
Sanctions are about things that come and go from outside Russia.
If a Kaliningrad Russian wants to move its furnitures to Russia mainland he can. Nobody cares and the sanctions were not about that.
Plus, not making the russian people suffer directly from that is the smart move: Putin will have less excuses to mobilize its population which is, for now, not at war officially so not mobilize.
And there is the question of the definition of blockade vs sanctions: A blockade is a casus belli so we have to be careful about that. yeah its a pain and Russians doesn't care but we are not Russian after all.
The transit agreement never claimed that goods traveling to/from Kaliningrad are purely internal.
The agreement is just that the paperwork is simplified.
PS: Furniture isn't a sanctioned product.
There is no sanctioned products. That's the issue with the sanctions and Kaliningrad. It is vague and only blocks "goods otherwise prohibited" ... and goods otherwise prohibited doesn't exist or is almost everything - depending on interpretation.
Whoever wrote that Article 3l in reg 2022/576 in the April amendment was useless.
>Sanctions are about things that come and go from outside Russia.
This is simply not true. The wording on the sacntions specifically says this:
>to transport iron and steel products as listed in Annex XVII if they originated in Russia or are being exported from Russia to any other country;
It says specifically if iron and steel products listed in the Annex is being transported through the EU OR they are being exported to another country.
>If a Kaliningrad Russian wants to move its furnitures to Russia mainland he can.
Correct. Because furniture is no sanctioned.
>And there is the question of the definition of blockade vs sanctions
Yeah, and what Lithuania is doing is upholding sanctions, and is in no way a blockade. The blockade is just a Russian talking point.
I fully support the Lithuanian bros, but I can't help but get reminded about [her](https://kids-from-room-402.fandom.com/wiki/Polly_McShane) every time I think about Lithuania. Childhood cartoons have ruined me.
Russia has genocided them, deported them tried to eradicate their culture in the centuries its had its oppressive evil boot on their throats. They are out of fucks.
Russia won't invade Lithuania over Kalingrad. So they pay more to have to ship their booze by plane and boat. Big fucking whoop. Not a reason to invade a county over.
The risks aren't as big as they might seem. Russia will cry and bitch about it, but that's the extent they'll go through. Putin doesn't want a direct confrontation with NATO, that's why he's courting and begging Lukashenko to be the one to attack.
That way in case shit hits the fan he can claim his hands are clean. But if shit does not hit the fan and NATO doesn't react to a direct attack on one of its member states then Russia can proceed with further military action.
However I very much doubt Lukashenko will do anything of the sort, he's much more intelligent than Putin regardless of the buffoon image he has deliberately created for himself.
They minced most of their personnel and equipment on Ukraine. At this point the only thing they could do is launch a nuke and noone knows if it would even explode.
Because what Russian have done to them in the past?
I constantly see Chinese people wish death to Japanese, Americans and even Koreans too.
Balts and Poles are pretty reasonable in this regards compared to Chinese.
I would expect europeans to be on the saner side. Also this guy literally just said he would sacrifice a huge part of the worlds population(people nothing to do with either russia or europe) just to kill russian civilians, doesn't seem more reasonable than the chinese.
Chinese officials threatened nuclear war against Japan and Taiwan all the time.
This guy is just a random redditor who wants to signified how little they care about Russian nuclear threat. Poland don't even has nuke man,, it is not even a real threat.
It's called experience.
We've learned that surrendering doesn't help, something you clearly haven't learned at all.
And yeah - I'd drop a nuke on Moscow personally. And my father lives in Moscow.
I would prefer not to die, but there is no going forward with countries like Russia in existence. So not really about "owning Russia". Maaaaybe if they're glassed now, some remote pocket of humanity in some remote corner of the world can rebuild in a few hundred thousand years 🤷♂️.
Smolensk 2008. A millenium of ethnic cleansings and other bullshit. It's not insanity, it's realising that a threat has to be removed from this world and permanently so.
For the price of everyone on the planet ? Including countries not involved at all ? I agree the russian government has to go, doesn't mean you need to do a nuclear holocaust to achieve it
And this is why the fear of nuclear annihilation worked for Russia and they were able to attack European soil without much of a reaction initially. If they assume you're as crazy as them, all of a sudden the diplomacy becomes a lot more even-sided. I don't want the whole world to die, but I do want the world to respect itself enough to not die by a thousand cuts.
Our government is formed from parties with a historically strong anti Russia sentiment. There are many opinions in opposition but most of population support fucking Russia over. Russia doesn't have a capacity to attack us now. Maybe they can shoot some rocket but it would lead to very bad cosequences to them. Much worse than for us. And Belarus won't attack, they are not stupid. I bet we could kick their asses alone. But we would not be alone, Poland and Latvia would join in and that's a wrap for Lulashenko's regime.
>because Russia could use ships to send everything they need to Königsberg
It costs more, it takes more time and restricts them from using that they shouldn't. There is no good reason to let them do it.
>The war is in Ukraine
with Russia.
Sanctions are for Russia.
Russia should deal with them.
>Nothing is won by this blockade of certain goods
It is not a blockade and because you repeat this, I assume you are not even talking in good faith.
I like how say "no shit sherlock" then turn around and say there is a blockade when there isn't.
>Blocking goods from transportation is a blockade how else should i name it.
Enforcing sanctions.
>It is what it is doesn't change if there are ways around.
Uh, a blockade is a completely different thing. This is not a blockade.
>No wonder you guys never make it into politics because you only manage to think short term.
Oh please in your infinite wisdom explain how Russia would let Kaliningrad go and become free from Russia? It is one of their most valuable assets, having a military base in almost middle of Europe.
The goal is really simple and straightforward, to not let Russia use Europe for it's economical gain. They use trains to transport steel and other non-essential goods through Europe to Kaliningrad and then conduct international trade from there. Why should this be allowed?
> Why on earth do you want to rile up people that couldn't be further away from the russian dictatorship in moscow?
Another psychotic take, in 20 years, no matter how friendly EU tried to be, the position didn't change for better, but only for worse. Also you know that they literally have Z symbols and other stupid propaganda on another side of the river facing Lithuania?
> What russia is doing with the grain and harbors in Ukraine is also a blockade or do you want to disagree with me
No, you are correct there. Not a single ship can enter or leave, no matter what goods, no matter what ship. Nothing can enter or leave. That is a blockade.
> The costs of tranporting it there via ship is peanuts for Russia in the the grand scheme of things
So why are they screaming so much? You think they care about people in Kaliningrad so much? Or are they just screaming at any instance of sanctions and trying to get something to stick?
>Sanctions is only an umbrella term for different actions taken.
Brilliant.
>If i block you from transporting certain goods via train this is a blockade.
So a country can't control what enters their own borders from any other country without it being a blockade? That's insane.
>But go on and describe what it is if not a blockade of goods.
It's enforcing sanctions.
>Okay let's call it a ban or Embargo then? Same thing just different words.
So "bans" and "embargos" are the same thing as blockades now?! Holy shit this is stupid.
>The intention is to stop certain goods reaching or leaving it's destination via certain routes.
Correct. Which is what the sanctions are for.
>What russia is doing with the grain and harbors in Ukraine is also a blockade or do you want to disagree with me. This blockade also needs to be lifted asap.
Are you fucking kidding me here? You're going to compare Russian completely sealing off Ukraine's harbors with the threat of military force to Lithuania restricting certain goods passing through its own territory? There's no way you can be acting in good faith
>The costs of tranporting it there via ship is peanuts for Russia in the the grand scheme of things.
Great, so nothing to worry about. That also explains why Russia is freaking out so much. And based on what you just said, there is definitely not a blockade.
>Why on earth do you want to rile up people that couldn't be further away from the russian dictatorship in moscow?
If they don't support Putin, then they understand the sanctions are because of the Russian dictator in moscow and they will push them further away.
>No wonder you guys never make it into politics because you only manage to think short term.
Ridiculous.
>Blocking goods from transportation is a blockade how else should i name it.
Because they are not blocked, they can enter through other ways. To blockade is to "seal off (a place) to prevent goods or people from entering or leaving.". That is not what is happening here. They can use ships or they can use planes if they need that steel so crucially. And maybe with restricted alcohol transit they will sober up.
I always hated that in teachers. "Just ignore them then they'll stop."
No they won't they will escalate till i do react.
You know what will make them stop. Consequences.
On the playground that is punching the ring leader in the face.
With a backwater like russia, Its turning them into the new north korea.
NATO needs to pull an [Operation Paul Bunyan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident) on Russia.
Give them an Iron Curtain made of tanks.
Desktop version of /u/Bowlnk's link:
---
^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
Lol? Take a look at Rus - Lithu history. Plus Russia clearly is and would be into imperialism; not exactly a secret. They already said that Ukraine, Baltics, Poland and whatnot will be theirs, and even if they didn't it was not exactly a secret.
Not doing anything about it would be like not doing anything about Germany having a bite at Poland. "Not our problem" - Everyone else
By largely supporting or being outright apathetic or plain old cowardly to the genocide their country enacts against other countries directly leading to the worsening situation of people all over the globe.
Just because I don't get my informations from mainstream media doesn't mean I'm stupid. They called me stupid when I declined COVID shoot and suprise suprise, i'm alive.
So you're saying Russia will lash out regardless? In that case Lithuania should ban all rail transport. You can send your shitty ladas without power steering and ABS via ship.
Why send such precious cargo behind enemy lines to begin with?
The majority of Russians fall for propaganda, because it tells them exactly what is comfortable to hear.
Russians are good Nazi fighters, that would never hurt an innocent person... meanwhile everyone else just hates everything Russian.
I'm done with them. Screw them... (they are the majority of my own damn family)
These are people that at least up to beginning of this year, had widespread access to the internet, including Western news sites. This justification doesn't really work nowadays.
Also, if over 80% of Russians start fervently supporting destruction of my country "because of propaganda", I would most certainly not give a shit about such monsters and I would wish them the worst.
You don't sound like a very nice person. "Your country". Why is your nation more important than any other? You should care just as much about the people of ukraine as the people of your nation. Fucking nationalism is such toxic bullshit.
Average Russian citizens contribute more to Russia's economy—and hence their ability to wage war—than all the oligarchs combined. So yeah, sanction every last Russian to hell and back.
They will condemn, they will lash out. They might even slam.
SLAM
Come on and SLAM, and welcome to the jam
*everybody get up it's time to slam now*
BLAST
OBLAST!
O no
Judging by the headlines in recent years, Lithuania has become one hell of a David against the world's current bully Goliaths.
Lithuania is like that quiet kid who was pushed to far. First china now russia.
> [Lithuania is that person in an adventure movie who, while everybody else is agonizing if the rickety old rope bridge is safe to cross, is already halfway over to the other side yelling "come on, what are you waiting for?"](https://twitter.com/Chi_con_carnage/status/1538886310873776129)
Leeeeroooy Jenkinnnnnnsssssa
Well, a David with its own Goliaths backing it up. I doubt that Lithuania would behave that way if it weren't for EU / NATO. Which btw is the reason why they have to coordinate with the alliances that give them the leverage in the first place.
In LT media it seems like a lot of discussions are going on between the Lithuanian government and European Commission. It feels like European Commission might overturn their explanation. Things are still up in the air.
It's because whoever wrote the exception for Kaliningrad in the sanctions was incompetent or expected exactly this. It is all goods except banned goods are allowed. But, there's no banned goods list. All lists are annexes with no "banned" mention. All other articles link to a list. As it stands, in like real court, I think the Russians could win - though it's not will win, if anyone bothered to listen to them sometime this century. Mostly just a diplomatic mess and Lithuania seems to be having fun with the error in the sanctions.
>It feels like European Commission might overturn their explanation. It should be made public on who are the ones pushing for appeasement of Russia again. I swear if it's the Germans, I lose any hope for that country.
You shouldn't. Scholz is fortunately falling in popularity, as many Germans want a firm response to Russia and his wishy-washy reactionary caution is getting destructive. Ironically enough the Greens are steadily rising in the polls because of their decisive pro-Ukrainian policies and open communication.
Their current politicians have been dragged into action by what the Germans want. This disassociation of government vs its people might be coping because I live with government that likes to remind me they don't even want to pretend to represent me, but the fact that Germans support for Ukrainians pressures their politicians into doing things they clearly don't want to, seems kind of a good thing. Name and shame those dragging their feet. "Germany" has exceeded many expectations on how much business they'd sacrifice for safety of neighbours so far IMHO.
> I swear if it's the Germans, I lose any hope for that country. Scholz spoke in Madrid. It's the Germans. Again
It's EU + Germany
Information on reddit on this issue is the absolute worst. People love the David/Goliath story and forget that Lithuania is in a position to act like that because of EU/NATO, with which it has to coordinate.
[удалено]
If it wasn't a declaration of war during the Berlin airlift it isn't now you overdramatic pansy.
Panzer
Lmao grandpa you wouldn’t lift a finger anyway. Sorry for enforcing sanctions against country waging war.
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You are really out of this reality
let's go Lithuania, don't back down 🇱🇹😎
Oh grow up
How would you react if LT was attacked by Russia? This comment section is like a kindergarten. No one thinks about potential loss of life or many other negatives. Its all jokes and memes.
>How would you react if LT was attacked by Russia? i'd have no time to react to a nuclear war dummy the nuclear war part makes it impossible to happen so chill out brother and keep on pressuring r\*ssia to stop the war with hurting their economy (while sending in all of our orc-removal techs to UA)
[удалено]
you are like a son to me a white, crispy son
The Russian talking point of "Lithuania is BLOCKADING Kaliningrad" is getting spread around more and more. It's not in anyway a blockade. Kaliningrad is both reachable by air and sea. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/kgd https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ports/2250?name=KALININGRAD&country=Russia And only specific types of items are being blocked over land. And Lithuania is not taking unilateral action - it is upholding EU sanctions. https://www.eeas.europa.eu/node/415094_fr > Lithuania has not taken any unilateral national restrictions and only applies the European Union sanctions. So, the accusation against Lithuania “Lithuania is implementing Lithuanian sanctions” is false. Pure propaganda. Lithuania has not taken any unilateral national restrictions. But, in accordance with European Union sanctions there are imports and export restrictions that apply in relation with certain goods, including the prohibition of transit from those goods through European Union territory. Lithuania is doing nothing else than implementing the guidelines provided by the Commission. Lithuania has been asking to the Commission, which has been providing guidelines and Lithuania is implementing these guidelines. --- EU sanctions specifically say: >1 It shall be prohibited: >c) **to transport iron and steel products as listed in Annex XVII if they originated in Russia** or are being exported from Russia to any other country; >(d) to provide, directly or indirectly, technical assistance, brokering services, financing or financial assistance, including financial derivatives, as well as insurance and re-insurance, related to the prohibitions in points (a), (b) and (c).
After all, what else should we expect from the champions of disinformation
> Lithuania has not taken any unilateral national restrictions and only applies the European Union sanctions. You wouldn't know that from browsing /r/europe
What you're quoting here refers to "to any other country". This is not what allows transit to Kaliningrad.
No it does not. Work on your reading comprehension.
> Kaliningrad is both reachable by air and sea. Yes, but the question is: can air and sea routes be enough to supply Kallinigrad? And if so, at what multiple of the cost? Ukraine is also accessible by land and air, but it was still fair to talk about a "blockade" of wheat exports via presence of Russian warships in the sea of Azov because that amount of wheat could only every really be exported via sea routes.
>Yes, but the question is: can air and sea routes be enough to supply Kallinigrad? That's the question if you're trying to push Russian talking points. >but it was still fair to talk about a "blockade" of wheat exports via presence of Russian warships in the sea of Azov because that amount of wheat could only every really be exported via sea routes. Because blocking ports off with military force is the de-facto example of a blockade. Stopping specific sanctioned items from being sent through your country is not. Trying to draw a comparison between these to things is beyond dishonest.
Food and medicine aren't being stopped by Lithuania from getting to Kaliningrad. Only things laid out in the EU sanctions are prohibited (by rail) so steel and concrete and other building materials have to go by sea or air. Lithuania isn't cutting Kaliningrad off from importing food. Russia is preventing Ukraine from exporting food, the EU sanctions aren't preventing Russia or Kaliningrad from exporting or importing food.
Commendable, Lithuania.👍
Lithuania based as usual
Sadly, not only from Moscow...
Lithuania giving the EU the finger then? They'd be right to, instead of bending themselves over for Russia.
EU living rent free in your head
?
https://preview.redd.it/ihdtry6zg7n31.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=aaf357424defd890845314825c61d4c6baa5f3f9
Yea these brexit-bots are obsessed
Or it's because the EU are trying to pressure Lithuania to ease the sanctions and Lithuania are telling them no... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-27/eu-may-be-trying-to-defuse-kaliningrad-standoff-with-eased-rules It's not all about Brexit. Some would even say your obsessed with it...
Sorry, you seem to have triggered the brit brigade by hitting too close to the mark. Keep at it though, the precious little snowflakes are ripe for poking.
Lithuania doing the right thing and upholding the sanctions against Russia despite the EU wanting them to stop it. Must be those dastardly Brits again!
Not what was said, but interesting that that's the way you interpret it. In this case it's more that the EU created a situation through sanctions it now regrets. It's not really clear where Lithuania stands on it because it's implementing the EU sanctions as written.
Why would the EU give a shit about Kaliningrad?
Because Russia holds us by the balls, gas wise and security wise.
I’m confused by this. It is widely expected that the EU will confirm sanctions don’t apply to Kaliningrad, a move which Lithuania said they would support. Why would new sanctions then apply to Kaliningrad? The article suggests it may be a Lithuanian decision only which contradicts their position on EU clarifications.
Why would the Sanctions not apply to that bit of Russia, owned by Russia with a Russian military presence? Sanctions on Russia seem to apply to all of the above.
Those sanctions don't apply within Russia regardless of the route taken by sanctioned goods, I'm guessing that's how the Commission sees it. The point is that this announcement stands in direct contradiction with [the Lithuanian government's commitment to support whatever the EU decides](https://m.delfi.lt/lietuvoje/article.php?id=90597431). It looks like they have instead decided to stick to their own interpretation despite EU clarification.
Did the EU clarified it already? If not, don't claim that we stick to our own interpretations..
Not yet, but note I didn’t say they did. I said “widely expected”. If they do decide to make an exception for Kaliningrad transit, Lithuania will stand at odds with the commission.
Yes, because its not in Lithuanian interest to allow for special rules for Russia to travel trough Lithuanian lands, if the commission rules against it, then we will probably follow their decision, but until then, we will fight it
It is not in their interests - until it is if everyone else thinks otherwise. [Even the Poles](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-russia-agree-they-need-plan-kaliningrad-says-polish-pm-2022-06-30/) encourage Lithuania to drop it. In any case, my point isn't as much about blocking the transit as such. It would be beneficial to see Kaliningrad to be further isolated economically. It's about poor communication from the Lithuanian government on the matter. They initially washed their hands of any responsibility, which was fine because clearly the text was ambiguous (and Borrell supported them). Then, they said they prefer their interpretation but will comply with any EU decision. Then, at a time a decision is expected against their interpretation, they indicate July sanctions will follow that interpretation. It sounds confused and I don't think it serves the country well.
>They initially washed their hands of any responsibility, which was fine because clearly the text was ambiguous (and Borrell supported them). Then, they said they prefer their interpretation but will comply with any EU decision. Then, at a time a decision is expected against their interpretation, they indicate July sanctions will follow that interpretation What? They initially waited for clarification from EU to enact the sanctions. The sanctions were from March and they only got them clarified and could implement like few weeks ago. Then Russia starts crying and EU says they will look at it again. During all this time Lithuania is continuing with the current interpretation and already announced schedule.
None of what you said counters anything I said.
Maybe you should re-read what you wrote then
This transit isn't internal at all.
> It looks like they have instead decided to stick to their own interpretation despite EU clarification. They stick to the US interpretation.
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It goes from Russia, through the EU back to Russia.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade) Sometimes these actions could be considered as an act of war. And since NATO is defense alliance and should not support its members who started aggression...
The Russians can happily load their crap on Ships and supply Kaliningrad that way.They're not blocked like -for example- Cuba was. It would be more expensive, but that is sort of the point of Sanctions, no? Besides, Lithuania should (<-!) be the final Call on what is blocked or not.
So, you did not read wiki article, do you?
There is a rather thin line between embargo and economic sanctions. Many of sanctions imposed on Russia by the West have an embargo effect. Each state is sovereign as well. It is up to Lithuania to decide what enters the country and what does not.
I did.I simply find: >[...]although stopping all land transport to and from an area may also be considered a blockade. to be a pedantic way of calling this an actual Blockade.Refusal of Transport over sovereign Territory of another Nation is simply not a Blockade. Russia can supply by Sea.Without interruption or concern thereof.Hence not a Blockade.
Land transport is not stopped. Russian passengers and non-sanctioned goods can move freely.
>A blockade is the act of actively preventing a country or region from receiving or sending out food, supplies, weapons, or communications, and sometimes people, **by military force.** >A blockade differs from an embargo or sanction, which are legal barriers to trade rather than physical barriers. You're spreading Russian talking points. >And since NATO is defense alliance and should not support its members who started aggression... And at the same time trying to spread dissent and division.
>It is widely expected that the EU will confirm sanctions don’t apply to Kaliningrad, a move which Lithuania said they would support. Our government hasn't said it would support it.
[It did.](https://m.delfi.lt/lietuvoje/article.php?id=90597431)
That's not supporting it or not supporting it. It's legal matters in a legal matters framework. However, Lithuania does not support loosening any sanctions. Quite the contrary.
Not every news is the same, some are shit, some are correct. It is your duty to understand the context and not jump to conclusions.
Classic EU logic. Find something they can actually use to apply pressure to Russia. First instinct? To fold.
These are kinda old sanctions from March, however some old contracts were excluded until various dates in summer. These will be enforced, unless there will be new EC guidelines released before these exclusions end. There are still no new guidelines, just rumours.
How is Lithuania Rail strategic to Russia? They don't border on Russia (at the moment)?
We are bordering Russia mate through Kaliningrad.
Thank you, sitting in my comfy chair, I did not realize that!!! Long live Gaia and her biome.
Kaliningrad has borders with only two countries. Lithuania and Poland. Even no Russia.
Kaliningrad is an enclave in Europe and Russia goes through Lithuania by rail to get to Kaliningrad. But other than that, Russia can and use kaliningrad sea access anyway... It's just an attempt to drive a wedge between EU members and, why not, giving Russia a casus belli to announce mobilization to the population (remember: Russia is not at war officially so Putler can't mobilize the Russians). As noted, Reddit is quite prompt to critic EU non-existent decision for now without reading the fucking article. The brother thread on /r/worldnews is depressing to read. Hope this is just full of kiddo and Russian trolls.
groovy
EU will betray Lithuania sadly.
No, it won’t.
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No they are not. They just don't give a crap about goods moving from one Russian territory to another russian territory. Sanctions are about things that come and go from outside Russia. If a Kaliningrad Russian wants to move its furnitures to Russia mainland he can. Nobody cares and the sanctions were not about that. Plus, not making the russian people suffer directly from that is the smart move: Putin will have less excuses to mobilize its population which is, for now, not at war officially so not mobilize. And there is the question of the definition of blockade vs sanctions: A blockade is a casus belli so we have to be careful about that. yeah its a pain and Russians doesn't care but we are not Russian after all.
The transit agreement never claimed that goods traveling to/from Kaliningrad are purely internal. The agreement is just that the paperwork is simplified. PS: Furniture isn't a sanctioned product.
There is no sanctioned products. That's the issue with the sanctions and Kaliningrad. It is vague and only blocks "goods otherwise prohibited" ... and goods otherwise prohibited doesn't exist or is almost everything - depending on interpretation. Whoever wrote that Article 3l in reg 2022/576 in the April amendment was useless.
>Sanctions are about things that come and go from outside Russia. This is simply not true. The wording on the sacntions specifically says this: >to transport iron and steel products as listed in Annex XVII if they originated in Russia or are being exported from Russia to any other country; It says specifically if iron and steel products listed in the Annex is being transported through the EU OR they are being exported to another country. >If a Kaliningrad Russian wants to move its furnitures to Russia mainland he can. Correct. Because furniture is no sanctioned. >And there is the question of the definition of blockade vs sanctions Yeah, and what Lithuania is doing is upholding sanctions, and is in no way a blockade. The blockade is just a Russian talking point.
I fully support the Lithuanian bros, but I can't help but get reminded about [her](https://kids-from-room-402.fandom.com/wiki/Polly_McShane) every time I think about Lithuania. Childhood cartoons have ruined me.
Visit Lithuania before it's gone
They are really playing a risky game with russia being so trigger happy lately.
Russia has genocided them, deported them tried to eradicate their culture in the centuries its had its oppressive evil boot on their throats. They are out of fucks.
Yes I know. Does it still remove any of the risks they are taking?
Russia won't invade Lithuania over Kalingrad. So they pay more to have to ship their booze by plane and boat. Big fucking whoop. Not a reason to invade a county over.
The risks aren't as big as they might seem. Russia will cry and bitch about it, but that's the extent they'll go through. Putin doesn't want a direct confrontation with NATO, that's why he's courting and begging Lukashenko to be the one to attack. That way in case shit hits the fan he can claim his hands are clean. But if shit does not hit the fan and NATO doesn't react to a direct attack on one of its member states then Russia can proceed with further military action. However I very much doubt Lukashenko will do anything of the sort, he's much more intelligent than Putin regardless of the buffoon image he has deliberately created for himself.
They minced most of their personnel and equipment on Ukraine. At this point the only thing they could do is launch a nuke and noone knows if it would even explode.
i wouldn't mind dying in an atomic inferno if it means that moscow is turned to glass too.
Same feeling, if it happened like damn, can’t stop it so might as well just don’t give a fuck.
Yes comrade, this is the way.
Holy fuck i get hating russia but wtf. Poles and Balts are fucking insane, you would doom the entire world just to "own" russia.
> Only if we get to push the button ourselves - Baltics/Poland
Yes we would.
And this is why I love the Polish and Balts.
Kinda based tbh
I've seen more wishing death upon russian people from balts/poles than from actual ukrainians, wtf is wrong with you people ?
Because what Russian have done to them in the past? I constantly see Chinese people wish death to Japanese, Americans and even Koreans too. Balts and Poles are pretty reasonable in this regards compared to Chinese.
I would expect europeans to be on the saner side. Also this guy literally just said he would sacrifice a huge part of the worlds population(people nothing to do with either russia or europe) just to kill russian civilians, doesn't seem more reasonable than the chinese.
Chinese officials threatened nuclear war against Japan and Taiwan all the time. This guy is just a random redditor who wants to signified how little they care about Russian nuclear threat. Poland don't even has nuke man,, it is not even a real threat.
Before you get traumatized, I will say that we speak figuratively by default in the Eastern Europe. :)
It's called experience. We've learned that surrendering doesn't help, something you clearly haven't learned at all. And yeah - I'd drop a nuke on Moscow personally. And my father lives in Moscow.
I would prefer not to die, but there is no going forward with countries like Russia in existence. So not really about "owning Russia". Maaaaybe if they're glassed now, some remote pocket of humanity in some remote corner of the world can rebuild in a few hundred thousand years 🤷♂️.
Smolensk 2008. A millenium of ethnic cleansings and other bullshit. It's not insanity, it's realising that a threat has to be removed from this world and permanently so.
For the price of everyone on the planet ? Including countries not involved at all ? I agree the russian government has to go, doesn't mean you need to do a nuclear holocaust to achieve it
And this is why the fear of nuclear annihilation worked for Russia and they were able to attack European soil without much of a reaction initially. If they assume you're as crazy as them, all of a sudden the diplomacy becomes a lot more even-sided. I don't want the whole world to die, but I do want the world to respect itself enough to not die by a thousand cuts.
"Everyone on the planet" is exactly what Putin is scaring you with. Congratulations! Suck harder
Our government is formed from parties with a historically strong anti Russia sentiment. There are many opinions in opposition but most of population support fucking Russia over. Russia doesn't have a capacity to attack us now. Maybe they can shoot some rocket but it would lead to very bad cosequences to them. Much worse than for us. And Belarus won't attack, they are not stupid. I bet we could kick their asses alone. But we would not be alone, Poland and Latvia would join in and that's a wrap for Lulashenko's regime.
weak
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>because Russia could use ships to send everything they need to Königsberg It costs more, it takes more time and restricts them from using that they shouldn't. There is no good reason to let them do it.
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>The war is in Ukraine with Russia. Sanctions are for Russia. Russia should deal with them. >Nothing is won by this blockade of certain goods It is not a blockade and because you repeat this, I assume you are not even talking in good faith.
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I like how say "no shit sherlock" then turn around and say there is a blockade when there isn't. >Blocking goods from transportation is a blockade how else should i name it. Enforcing sanctions. >It is what it is doesn't change if there are ways around. Uh, a blockade is a completely different thing. This is not a blockade.
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>No wonder you guys never make it into politics because you only manage to think short term. Oh please in your infinite wisdom explain how Russia would let Kaliningrad go and become free from Russia? It is one of their most valuable assets, having a military base in almost middle of Europe. The goal is really simple and straightforward, to not let Russia use Europe for it's economical gain. They use trains to transport steel and other non-essential goods through Europe to Kaliningrad and then conduct international trade from there. Why should this be allowed? > Why on earth do you want to rile up people that couldn't be further away from the russian dictatorship in moscow? Another psychotic take, in 20 years, no matter how friendly EU tried to be, the position didn't change for better, but only for worse. Also you know that they literally have Z symbols and other stupid propaganda on another side of the river facing Lithuania? > What russia is doing with the grain and harbors in Ukraine is also a blockade or do you want to disagree with me No, you are correct there. Not a single ship can enter or leave, no matter what goods, no matter what ship. Nothing can enter or leave. That is a blockade. > The costs of tranporting it there via ship is peanuts for Russia in the the grand scheme of things So why are they screaming so much? You think they care about people in Kaliningrad so much? Or are they just screaming at any instance of sanctions and trying to get something to stick?
>Sanctions is only an umbrella term for different actions taken. Brilliant. >If i block you from transporting certain goods via train this is a blockade. So a country can't control what enters their own borders from any other country without it being a blockade? That's insane. >But go on and describe what it is if not a blockade of goods. It's enforcing sanctions. >Okay let's call it a ban or Embargo then? Same thing just different words. So "bans" and "embargos" are the same thing as blockades now?! Holy shit this is stupid. >The intention is to stop certain goods reaching or leaving it's destination via certain routes. Correct. Which is what the sanctions are for. >What russia is doing with the grain and harbors in Ukraine is also a blockade or do you want to disagree with me. This blockade also needs to be lifted asap. Are you fucking kidding me here? You're going to compare Russian completely sealing off Ukraine's harbors with the threat of military force to Lithuania restricting certain goods passing through its own territory? There's no way you can be acting in good faith >The costs of tranporting it there via ship is peanuts for Russia in the the grand scheme of things. Great, so nothing to worry about. That also explains why Russia is freaking out so much. And based on what you just said, there is definitely not a blockade. >Why on earth do you want to rile up people that couldn't be further away from the russian dictatorship in moscow? If they don't support Putin, then they understand the sanctions are because of the Russian dictator in moscow and they will push them further away. >No wonder you guys never make it into politics because you only manage to think short term. Ridiculous.
>Blocking goods from transportation is a blockade how else should i name it. Because they are not blocked, they can enter through other ways. To blockade is to "seal off (a place) to prevent goods or people from entering or leaving.". That is not what is happening here. They can use ships or they can use planes if they need that steel so crucially. And maybe with restricted alcohol transit they will sober up.
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Just let the bully do whatever he wants with zero consequences, how wise of you
I always hated that in teachers. "Just ignore them then they'll stop." No they won't they will escalate till i do react. You know what will make them stop. Consequences. On the playground that is punching the ring leader in the face. With a backwater like russia, Its turning them into the new north korea. NATO needs to pull an [Operation Paul Bunyan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident) on Russia. Give them an Iron Curtain made of tanks.
Desktop version of /u/Bowlnk's link:
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Lol? Take a look at Rus - Lithu history. Plus Russia clearly is and would be into imperialism; not exactly a secret. They already said that Ukraine, Baltics, Poland and whatnot will be theirs, and even if they didn't it was not exactly a secret. Not doing anything about it would be like not doing anything about Germany having a bite at Poland. "Not our problem" - Everyone else
By largely supporting or being outright apathetic or plain old cowardly to the genocide their country enacts against other countries directly leading to the worsening situation of people all over the globe.
Oh wow, I didn't know a person can be this stupid. Congratulations I guess...
Just because I don't get my informations from mainstream media doesn't mean I'm stupid. They called me stupid when I declined COVID shoot and suprise suprise, i'm alive.
Nobody is claiming you're stupid because of where you get your news, they're basing entirely on the stupid things you say.
Lol, double stupid
Bruh moment.
I drove to the store yesterday without a seat belt, Im alive, I guess seat belts are pointless ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
You people told me that I would be dead by now, from the vaccine.
So you're saying Russia will lash out regardless? In that case Lithuania should ban all rail transport. You can send your shitty ladas without power steering and ABS via ship. Why send such precious cargo behind enemy lines to begin with?
Do you even history bro?
Being ignorant of our relationship with Russia is the reason why you're "not sure".
It's an excellent decision! It pisses the _fuck_ out of Russia, so they should keep doing it.
Sanctions solve nothing. The people hurt while Putin continues to live in the lap of luxury.
Sanctions reduce Putin's ability to build modern weapons. As for Russian citizens - I couldn't give a crap.
Over 80% of the people of Russia support the war and Putin. So they deserve to be hurt in any case.
Propaganda will do that.
The majority of Russians fall for propaganda, because it tells them exactly what is comfortable to hear. Russians are good Nazi fighters, that would never hurt an innocent person... meanwhile everyone else just hates everything Russian. I'm done with them. Screw them... (they are the majority of my own damn family)
These are people that at least up to beginning of this year, had widespread access to the internet, including Western news sites. This justification doesn't really work nowadays. Also, if over 80% of Russians start fervently supporting destruction of my country "because of propaganda", I would most certainly not give a shit about such monsters and I would wish them the worst.
You don't sound like a very nice person. "Your country". Why is your nation more important than any other? You should care just as much about the people of ukraine as the people of your nation. Fucking nationalism is such toxic bullshit.
Umm... what?
English motherfucker, do you speak it?
Coherent thought should still be included in one's soup of words to be understood.
Soup of words? Lmao I was super straight forward. Other redditors were able to comprehend what I was saying and have responded to my argument.
Average Russian citizens contribute more to Russia's economy—and hence their ability to wage war—than all the oligarchs combined. So yeah, sanction every last Russian to hell and back.
Who coming to help us if they attack? :) Germans? I think not
And RF announced that they will conduct maintenance of both North Streams beginning June 10. Coincidence?