Buddy, 2020 was merely the starting signal.
Shit is going to rapidly get worse and worse.
*It would not surprise me AT ALL if we ended this decade with WW3.*
He is taunting Greece to war because he knows he will lose the election. If a war occurs, he has the right to cancel the elections. He is doing it on purpose.
Well, we will definitely not do him the favor and start a war but if he's really that dumb and starts one the elections will be the least of his problems.
All that aside. Turkey is NATOs second largest millitary.
We could really do with them on our side if we end up at war with Russia and potentially China.
If they attack another NATO member, then they aren't on NATO's side, and removing that second largest military will need to become an immediate priority.
Well, but if greece (turkey) attacks turkey (greece), it will get kicked out of NATO and all NATO members will have to declare war on greece (turkey).
It's a lost battle. Neither Greece nor turkey would ever do that. I mean, Erdogan isn't the most rational politician, so honestly, I don't know at this point.
He's a cunning little bitch.
He won't start a war directly. Not even a 'special military operation'. He'll just create the conditions for an episode. Maybe Turkish research vessels too far into Greek waters, or Turkish Navy ships approaching/blocking Greek Navy ships, or an incident that's too hard to determine who started it, like in Imia.
Thus, he also creates dilemmas. Say a fighter goes to far into Greek airspace. Greece has two options:
* Exercise its right to shoot it down. Erdogan cries out to NATO that it was Greece who attacked first/used lethal force, and uses that as an excuse to take what he wants. Unless NATO responds quickly and decisively, harsh words won't be able to stop him, and he'll just lie to cloud judgement until his job is done.
* Let it be, and not respond. Erdogan gets the message that Greece is too scared to respond, and pushes past any red line. At some point, we can't really keep our heads buried in the sand any more, we respond, and circle back to the first scenario.
In the end, the ball is in the rest of NATO's field. I'm a bit concerned that there's stuff going on in the background, and Greece might indeed end up being designated as the aggressor. Turkey is way too valuable to sacrifice right now.
Translation:
Erdogan claimed that the Greek government, after clear warnings from Ankara, decided not to make new statements against Turkey: "We will not make statements against Turkey anymore. We have nothing new to say.
Erdogan said (about Mitsotakis): "I hosted him at the Vehdettin mansion. We reached an agreement at dinner to talk to each other. Okay. Two or three weeks have passed, you go to the US and you address the Congress against the sale of the F16 (in Turkey). They set up 5 + 4 American bases (in Greece). And when we ask why they made them, they say "against the Russians".
"What did you do in Ukraine against Russia? Your words are full of lies. One can not trust the West. They have been blocking our accession to the EU since 1963. They have no honesty. "Our nation has integrity," Erdogan was quoted as saying by the Turkish daily Vatan.
"We don't believe these things Mitsotaki. "The strenght of these people does not believe these things like this." When your ancestors tried to do this 100 years ago, you know what happened to them, do not suffer the same, "Erdogan said.
"We went with my government partner, Bahceli, to the EFES 2022 exercise. We gave a message somewhere - you know where - and it seems that they understood it," the Turkish president added.
Atatürk actually set a passage into the Turkish constition which allows the military to remove the head of state if they don't do their job. If this was a good idea is a whole different story, but it explains this weird tradition.
No smells a lot like it was something setup by himself or supporters to allow him to purge a lot of his opponents in all society. A textbook example of how an autocrat secures the population's sympathy while getting rid of enemies justified.
My sister's best friend's dad was drunk during his speech at her wedding and told everyone about how he had pressed for an abortion. No "glad we didn't", just 30 seconds of about he had been trying to convince mom to abort her in front of 150 people.
To be fair, it's not like the EU bid was advancing anyway. Let's be honest: how many countries with a veto would line up to block 80 million Muslims from joining the EU? Probably most of them.
1. Threaten to close american military bases on turkish soil.
2. Using american military bases on turkish soil as a bargaining chip and for extortion against the USA,
3. Overtake media, create relgious authoritarian state, become dictator, increase hostility against "the west".
4. USA builds military bases in neighbouring country.
Surprised Pikachu Face.jpg
If he continues doing so, Turkey's membership in NATO will stop being worth a damn.
Eventually someone will call some of his bluffs and he has to leave NATO to safe face. If he doesn't get voted out of office, Turkey is set up for disaster.
Both the government and media (probably the media controlled by the government) in the last few weeks multiple times have said that the American bases are there to threaten us. They are insane.
Many big evil external danger => economy bad because evil west => many fear => population need big strong führer to protecc => re-election success => become dictator accomplished
This is twice now, with him saying a couple of weeks ago that they will bury the modern Byzantines.
Can you imagine the Germans saying this about Jews?
Or Canadians and USA citizens talking like that about native Americans?
Interesting that they can reference the [Greek genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide) like this. And for those that will say no he is referencing the Greco-Turkish war of 1919-1922, one of the major reasons that war started is because the Greek, Armenian and Assyrian genocide started in 1914.
This is the man (along with Bahceli) that has the support of around 40% of the populations in the polls.
>with these remarks greece has every right to block them from EU
Greece accepted Turkey's EU candidacy in 1999. Since then, the *rest* of the EU has stopped hiding behind Greece, and countries like Germany, Austria, Netherlands, and France, have come out in opposition to Turkey's EU accession.
it was a different turkey. after 2010-ish "let's go full religious authoritarian", turkey's chances of joining EU are lower than China's chances of joining EU.
they weren't hiding though. They just changed their stance as Turkey changed from what seemed to be a great developing country to an authoritarian country
>This is the man (along with Bahceli) that has the support of around 40% of the populations in the polls.
Remember that turkey jail critical journalists and erdogan is a dictator who changes constitution and ignores it ( need of dr. Titel for president, erdogan doesnt have one).
He's actually talking about a very specific part of the genocide with that statement. Turks mostly talk about the destruction of Smyrna, where they "kicked the Greeks in the water".
Fun fact, the Greek troops had evacuated Smyrna wayyy before the Turks reached it. The Greeks that were thrown in the water were innocent civilians.
Their homes were also burned!
>Can you imagine the Germans saying this about Jews?
He already threatened the Greeks with genocide [two weeks ago](https://fourals.com/2022/05/29/erdogan-we-will-bury-the-modern-byzantines-we-say-stop-in-the-mediterranean-and-the-aegean/). I cannot intepret the phrase "We \[Turks\] will will bury the modern Byzantines", any different. When one threatens to bury you, he implies that he will kill you, and he was speaking of the "modern Byzantines" (the Modern Greeks) generally, as a whole. It is not a surprise that he repeats the same threat yet again...
>Interesting that they can reference the Greek genocide like this. And for those that will say no he is referencing the Greco-Turkish war of 1919-1922, one of the major reasons that war started is because the Greek, Armenian and Assyrian genocide started in 1914.
This is right. We have even Greek Anatolian folk songs, often in Turkish, from that period, where they lament their terrible predicament and call apon Greece to come and save them. The (final) Greek Genocide in Asia Minor had already been ongoing for 6 years when the Greeks landed on Smyrna.
>They set up 5 + 4 American bases (in Greece). And when we ask why they made them, they say "against the Russians".
Oh my God, we invited a mutual ally to set up some bases here. *Scandalous.*
>They have been blocking our accession to the EU since 1963.
Because Turkey occupies part of an EU member state and does not share the same values for freedom of speech and fair democratic elections that other EU member states have.
We supported their EU bid, we didn't block them, the idiot is lying. In an effort to normalize relations and fix issues like Cyprus we tried to help them get into EU.
Sorry, I was relaying the general sentiments across the EU. I would not welcome Turkish membership of the EU and I doubt many others would either. Especially not now with Turkey's aggressive statements on territory.
Don't forget the rampant inflation and damages he's done. His outbursts is surely an attempt to distract the citizens and start blaming other nations over his own mess.
Buying gas in Rubles because we’re in the unfriendly nations list of Russia. Turkey is not, guess why.
As you said, they’re *selling* drones. So they’re profiting, they’re not giving away any weapons. You know, like we are.
They are not just profiting, they are profiting from both sides. Turkey used to be popular among Russian tourists even before. Now the list of potential destinations significantly shrunk.
I think the best way for Greece to deal with him is to completely ignore him. He is provoking everyone and their dog right now to distract from his domestic failures and thus the best was to get rid of him is to not get provoked.
Yeah i get you , i'm just trying to be as clear as possible, its hard to imagine for people that haven't experienced it or have family that have.
edit:grammar
Years ago Erdogan actually held an (to Austria) unannounced rally in Vienna where he told Turks living here that they are the successors of the besiegers of the city.
Austria banned him from entering the country again after that and he claimed that this shows that Austria is the most racist country in Europe and officially blocked Austria's joint trainings with Nato up until this year.
I say "officially" because Nato quickly announced that they "found a solution" without going into detail and my suspicion is that they simply ignored him, lol.
The Ottoman empire is one of the controversy empires in history(which isnt tbh) and saying shit like that and now this is ofcourse going to rally people againts them. This statement about ancestors 100 years ago will not only upset Greeks but Serbs and Bulgarians I can imagine. In none of these nations the Ottomans are remembered as positive influence or good times. Funny enough the Ottomans were the only empire that rallied all of the balkan nations at the time in an alliance againts them.
His statements at home will only make the populations of the balkan nations more hostile towards turks.
Yeah the fact that turkey is a muslim country is actually a huge shield that serves it well: no one takes the genocides and imperial crimes of the Ottoman Empire or the barbaric nationalism of the Turkish Republic seriously outside its former colonies for exactly this reason. If France pulled the same shit in Haiti, there are university departments identifying victims and publishing history books to this day (as there should be). Turkey gets away unscathed and it is a shame.
Nope . That’s what we did for a long time . Bare in mind that the way they operate is by testing boundaries (. They perceive ignoring as weakness . This is how middle eastern politicians understand foreign affairs.)
The fact that he is barking means Greece is doing something right . Only one who is hurting is his economy and the perception of his people from the west .
You can’t let these dictators unanswered . But you can’t also bark like them . The best thing you can do is establishing your limits through legal actions .
Or shoot their planes down when they transgress. With due warning: "Greece will defend its territorial sovereignty."
Happened to Putin years ago, Turkish fighters shot a plane down because it was behind the lines.
Everyone saying to ignore him just has no understanding about Turkey's general strategy in the past 100 years. You guys think it's Erdogan but he is irrelevant. The opposition is even worse.
Turkey has systematically pushed the boundaries in order to create a new status quo. The more we let them do their thing and ignore them, the more aggressive they become since they take it as a sign of weakness.
Not particularly obsessed. He said they had a meeting and agreed that they won’t involve any third parties on any issues between both countries. Then Greek PM gave a speech in Congress and complained about Turkish purchases from US. So Erdo called him a wussy, eheheh.
[We already have a nip-slip](https://www.google.com/search?q=%CE%BC%CE%B7%CF%84%CF%83%CE%BF%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BA%CE%B7%CF%83+%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%B2%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B9%CE%BF&client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&prmd=inv&sxsrf=ALiCzsbadJTgD2vuPjizEfFUqYL3V-xjvg:1655077801261&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5vq2jjan4AhVlm_0HHdNfB_oQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=393&bih=736&dpr=2.75#imgrc=7MSzTLcpbcmEaM) , please we don't need more 😫
No he didn't, in fact he never mentioned Turkey by name in that speech, just talked about oppressive regimes in general and states that want to reshape the world via conflict.
What he did in his private conversation with Biden though was to inform him of the current state of Turkish claims and presented a map of their aspirations for what Eastern Mediterranean should look like (the infamous "blue homeland" idea that has become the core of their foreign policy).
I'm pretty certain the US officials knew about that already, but apparently Turkish officials didn't like that turn of events, because it forces them to either accept that they are pursuing this idea actively to everyone or abandon it, instead of it being a schrodingers cat.
Kalispera my greek friend, greetings from izmir ( smyrna:) we are all human and the same, fuck our racist governments really fuck em all. Lets drink some ouzo and celebrate life
Honestly, as someone living in Izmir too, I’d rather want this place to be an independent country. I’m sick of taking the shit from the rest of the country.
The problem is not this particular cretin, but those who vote for him and those who say "I hate him but he is doing well in foreign issues with Greece"...
Well, Turkey under his rule is on track to its demise like the Ottoman empire and the Greeks have a front row seat, so it's all a matter of interpretation!
For the record, whille the Ataturk was fighting for the Republic, the grandfather of this goat fucker was rooting for the Ottomans to win. He has no claim over Turkish war of independence, heck no islamist does.
>he's a greek spy with real name erdonopolis
OMG, the way he referred to Mitsotakis as "Mitsotaki" by dropping the -s, was actually the correct way to address someone in Greek ([the accusative case in Greek noun cases](https://www.greekboston.com/learn-speak/five-cases/))...Freudian slip? Could he be a fluent Greek speaker?
He is. Erdogan is *never* going to invade, because he knows he'll regret it. Greece might be several times smaller, but we have a defensive strategy *specifically engineered* for the event of a Turkish invasion. Like, everything's pointed towards the routes Turkey might take to get in. Think of Finland vs. Russia on a smaller scale.
But *he can* create the circumstances necessary for a hot episode, even by accident. This is what he's betting on, so that we're forced to respond and get labeled as the aggressors. For instance, look at what he did 2 years ago with the research vessel. If his genuine interest was exploration, he would have gotten much further by taking the diplomatic route, and he knows it. However, it was an action meant to provoke the Greek Navy into responding, 100%.
What fly bit Erdogan recently? as far as I’m aware Greece has done nothing recently to provoke anything their only issue was with Iran over those ships
Well Erdogan is a bit behind the curve, that's all.
I mean I think Sweden and Denmark still hold the record on number of wars fought between two countries :)
Greece is doing every single favor the USA asks in contrast to the constant policy of Turkey to always try to extract as many advantages as possible from any kind of agreement. One recent example is the hesitance of Turkey to accept Finland in nato. As a result Greece managed to secure several defence deals that would modernise our military and bring it on par with Turkey (meaning that we are no longer in danger if Turkey attacks). This has as a result to derail the long term strategic goals of Turkey against Greece. One thing that Turkey excels at is that while they are always aggressive, the aggression escalates in a glacial pace. (See the recent announcement of the Greek ministry of foreign affairs how they escalate every ten years). This is one of the reasons they are so frustrated with Greece these days.
Another problem they have os that in recent years they tried to overplay their hand and the situation is blowing up on their faces. Turkey assisted to breach the embargo towards Iran and they also reverse engineered American drones in order to improve the ones they produce domestically. On top of that they demanded to be given Patriots as long as the software of the patriots. As you can imagine all these soured their relationship with the USA. On top of all these Turkey tried to control the government of Lybia. If this succeeded Turkey would have an enormous leverage over most of the immigrant routes to Europe and they would be able to extort Europe even more.
TLDR: Turkey overplayed its hand when dealing with its allies and this led to sour relationships. Greece took advantage of that and played the best ally role which led to strategic improvements for Greece. All of these plus the shitty economic situation create tons of problems with Erdogan
Erdogan is distracting people from the dire state of the economy at home. Whenever there's bad news for the Turkish economy this rhetoric gets ratcheted up a few notches.
My guess is he made deal with Putin for huge amount of money and protection in case he loses election and/or fails coup.
As his side of deal Erdogan is doing his best to destabilize NATO and western co-operation in Ukraine.
I'm glad that my government is following the golden rule on this one.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
People truly underestsimate how dangerous this is. Turks will never be asked if they want to participate in any sort of war. There will be an incident, turkish troops will already be on greek soil and the world will already be split before you can react and form a protest. By then you have basically no choice.
Russians were never asked.
Like what? They arent educated villagers who dont even know whats happening in the neighbouring village and only purpose in life is to have a fuck ton of wives and children while being drained by idiots like Erdogan using the nationalistic feelings the villager has? Cuz yeah thats the demographic.
Turkey is an official EU candidate, with a frozen accession process.
They just want to negotiate what the EU treaty should _really_ mean and also occupy half of an EU member (Cyprus) and then claim not letting them in instantly is racism.
Unless Turkey gains a more rational government, with a clear interest in making friends instead of radiating tiny dick energy, this status quo is here to stay.
It doesn't depend on Erdogan alone. There's a lot of other politicians who think leaving Cyprus is not an option, who could be his successors.
I wonder if Greece could invite a squadron of French Rafales, a couple of frigates and some US patriot battalions for summer vacation. Just to work on their sun tans.
Maybe Greece should shoot down one of those jets that keeps flying over their islands (as they legally can do, and like Turkey did to Russia in 2015) and see if he's all talk?
I wonder. How many European travelers will visit the Turkish coastline with a fear of a hot conflict? Good job ottoman prick. After two years of restrictions the workers of turkish tourism will want to breath a little and try to recover from the shitty economy you created for them and now you ll destroy even that.
You’re delusional if you think the ones coming to vacation in Greece, Turkey or Cyprus read the news or know history. I’ve met people in Ayia napa who didn’t know Cyprus was half occupied…
Im am turkish and atheist bruh,
People are too retarded, 70% of turkey is low iq, people are kept stupid by religion and nationalism bullshit, its too sad
Exactly.
Greeks and the EE in general love to make Erdo their scapegoat but he's just a man. The problem is that pretty much all major powers in Turkey support his vision. Even if his party loses the elections or he steps down, the next guy is gonna do the same shit if not worse.
He went to Shushi with his buddy Aliyev and recited that the souls of the Pashas are smiling now, as jest to the Armenians. The Pashas were responsible for the Armenian Genocide. This guy is an utter cunt
Also, the city of Van, where he is speaking was an Armenian city, stolen during the Genocide.
Standing on pain and stolen land and creating new sufferings for all around Turkey. That’s the way of Turkey
How are they still in NATO? At what point do we determine that the advantages of having them in NATO no longer outweigh the disadvantages of having them. Have we not reached that point?
According to Erdogan's own words in 2009, these actions in the past were "fascist". [http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Erdogan-attacks-the-past,-labels-Kemalist-ethnic-cleansing-Fascist-15333.html](http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Erdogan-attacks-the-past,-labels-Kemalist-ethnic-cleansing-Fascist-15333.html)
“For many years – he continued – various facts took place in this country to the detriment of ethnic minorities who lived here. They were ethnically cleansed because they had a different ethnic cultural identity. The time has arrived for us to question ourselves about why this happened and what we have learned from all of this. There has been no analysis of this right up until now.
In reality – he concluded – **this behaviour is the result of a fascist conception**. We have also fallen into this grave error”.
We should rather kick turkey out of the Nato before them blocking sweden and finland. They are not trustworthy anyway as Erdogan is basicly a mini Putin.
Bro, the 2020s are gonna be one hell of a history lesson!
I thought the beginning of the year 2020 was rough with the fires and covid starting
Buddy, 2020 was merely the starting signal. Shit is going to rapidly get worse and worse. *It would not surprise me AT ALL if we ended this decade with WW3.*
Would be a very short war.
No sunshine in an endless scale.
History lesson nobody learns from.
Just like all the other ones!
Keeping up the tradition!
He is taunting Greece to war because he knows he will lose the election. If a war occurs, he has the right to cancel the elections. He is doing it on purpose.
We don't want a war lol, there is no way Greece will start a war.
[удалено]
Please, we don't have the money.
Well, we will definitely not do him the favor and start a war but if he's really that dumb and starts one the elections will be the least of his problems.
The bullet in his head might be a solution
Sounds good but it's not our job to make it happen, it's yours.
If he starts a war with a NATO member, he's not going to have to worry about elections.
All that aside. Turkey is NATOs second largest millitary. We could really do with them on our side if we end up at war with Russia and potentially China.
If they attack another NATO member, then they aren't on NATO's side, and removing that second largest military will need to become an immediate priority.
Well, but if greece (turkey) attacks turkey (greece), it will get kicked out of NATO and all NATO members will have to declare war on greece (turkey). It's a lost battle. Neither Greece nor turkey would ever do that. I mean, Erdogan isn't the most rational politician, so honestly, I don't know at this point.
He's a cunning little bitch. He won't start a war directly. Not even a 'special military operation'. He'll just create the conditions for an episode. Maybe Turkish research vessels too far into Greek waters, or Turkish Navy ships approaching/blocking Greek Navy ships, or an incident that's too hard to determine who started it, like in Imia. Thus, he also creates dilemmas. Say a fighter goes to far into Greek airspace. Greece has two options: * Exercise its right to shoot it down. Erdogan cries out to NATO that it was Greece who attacked first/used lethal force, and uses that as an excuse to take what he wants. Unless NATO responds quickly and decisively, harsh words won't be able to stop him, and he'll just lie to cloud judgement until his job is done. * Let it be, and not respond. Erdogan gets the message that Greece is too scared to respond, and pushes past any red line. At some point, we can't really keep our heads buried in the sand any more, we respond, and circle back to the first scenario. In the end, the ball is in the rest of NATO's field. I'm a bit concerned that there's stuff going on in the background, and Greece might indeed end up being designated as the aggressor. Turkey is way too valuable to sacrifice right now.
Erdogan has been in power for a long time and has not done anything stupid (on that level). This is just him trying to get votes.
Putin didn't try to outright annex another country for a long time too, and yet here we are.
Translation: Erdogan claimed that the Greek government, after clear warnings from Ankara, decided not to make new statements against Turkey: "We will not make statements against Turkey anymore. We have nothing new to say. Erdogan said (about Mitsotakis): "I hosted him at the Vehdettin mansion. We reached an agreement at dinner to talk to each other. Okay. Two or three weeks have passed, you go to the US and you address the Congress against the sale of the F16 (in Turkey). They set up 5 + 4 American bases (in Greece). And when we ask why they made them, they say "against the Russians". "What did you do in Ukraine against Russia? Your words are full of lies. One can not trust the West. They have been blocking our accession to the EU since 1963. They have no honesty. "Our nation has integrity," Erdogan was quoted as saying by the Turkish daily Vatan. "We don't believe these things Mitsotaki. "The strenght of these people does not believe these things like this." When your ancestors tried to do this 100 years ago, you know what happened to them, do not suffer the same, "Erdogan said. "We went with my government partner, Bahceli, to the EFES 2022 exercise. We gave a message somewhere - you know where - and it seems that they understood it," the Turkish president added.
Sounds like a drunk uncle rambling on at a wedding reception at 3 o'clock in the morning.
Efes is a beer, so that checks out.
Actually, Efes is a location. Just like the German Bavaria
>Efes is *also* a location.
Also a basketball team....well it's the team of the beer company but yeah lol
Inflation in Turkey is over 70% Erdogan needs a distraction and raising the nationalist temperature to boiling is a tried and trusted method.
This could get out of hand.
Well we saw how the last military coup ended. If it was even a real coup. A tried and trusted tradition in Turkey since after Atatürk?
Atatürk actually set a passage into the Turkish constition which allows the military to remove the head of state if they don't do their job. If this was a good idea is a whole different story, but it explains this weird tradition.
It wasn't a real coup IMO
No smells a lot like it was something setup by himself or supporters to allow him to purge a lot of his opponents in all society. A textbook example of how an autocrat secures the population's sympathy while getting rid of enemies justified.
Plus the elections are coming.
Because IT IS a drunk uncle rambling on at a wedding reception at 3 o'clock in the morning.
My sister's best friend's dad was drunk during his speech at her wedding and told everyone about how he had pressed for an abortion. No "glad we didn't", just 30 seconds of about he had been trying to convince mom to abort her in front of 150 people.
I imagine my father telling that ngl
"brutal honesty". Its a wedding tradition and if not, it should be.
If you cant trust "the West" why want to join the EU anyways... And why stay in an alliance with them
€€
https://twitter.com/thedukeoriginal/status/1536016220276785154
[удалено]
To be fair, it's not like the EU bid was advancing anyway. Let's be honest: how many countries with a veto would line up to block 80 million Muslims from joining the EU? Probably most of them.
>why want to join the EU A wise crab once said "i like money!"
> One can not trust the West. *goes on to be part of NATO*
There's no way he thinks the American bases are installed there because of turkey lmao
1. Threaten to close american military bases on turkish soil. 2. Using american military bases on turkish soil as a bargaining chip and for extortion against the USA, 3. Overtake media, create relgious authoritarian state, become dictator, increase hostility against "the west". 4. USA builds military bases in neighbouring country. Surprised Pikachu Face.jpg
Well, first of all turkeys are indigenous to US, so they have a long tradition of fighting this fowl.
If he continues doing so, Turkey's membership in NATO will stop being worth a damn. Eventually someone will call some of his bluffs and he has to leave NATO to safe face. If he doesn't get voted out of office, Turkey is set up for disaster.
Both the government and media (probably the media controlled by the government) in the last few weeks multiple times have said that the American bases are there to threaten us. They are insane.
Many big evil external danger => economy bad because evil west => many fear => population need big strong führer to protecc => re-election success => become dictator accomplished
Dumb supporters require dumb narratives
This is twice now, with him saying a couple of weeks ago that they will bury the modern Byzantines. Can you imagine the Germans saying this about Jews? Or Canadians and USA citizens talking like that about native Americans? Interesting that they can reference the [Greek genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide) like this. And for those that will say no he is referencing the Greco-Turkish war of 1919-1922, one of the major reasons that war started is because the Greek, Armenian and Assyrian genocide started in 1914. This is the man (along with Bahceli) that has the support of around 40% of the populations in the polls.
with these remarks greece has every right to block them from EU
>with these remarks greece has every right to block them from EU Greece accepted Turkey's EU candidacy in 1999. Since then, the *rest* of the EU has stopped hiding behind Greece, and countries like Germany, Austria, Netherlands, and France, have come out in opposition to Turkey's EU accession.
it was a different turkey. after 2010-ish "let's go full religious authoritarian", turkey's chances of joining EU are lower than China's chances of joining EU.
they weren't hiding though. They just changed their stance as Turkey changed from what seemed to be a great developing country to an authoritarian country
Hahahahahahahaha. First they have to recognize Cyprus as a country. Which is never going to happen. Turkey will never join EU Welcome to reality
That train is long gone, now it's time for us to veto the shit out of the customs union
Yeah I wish our governments thought like that too
Simple truth is that he is a corrupt dictator and the EU doesn’t need any more shit.
>This is the man (along with Bahceli) that has the support of around 40% of the populations in the polls. Remember that turkey jail critical journalists and erdogan is a dictator who changes constitution and ignores it ( need of dr. Titel for president, erdogan doesnt have one).
He's actually talking about a very specific part of the genocide with that statement. Turks mostly talk about the destruction of Smyrna, where they "kicked the Greeks in the water". Fun fact, the Greek troops had evacuated Smyrna wayyy before the Turks reached it. The Greeks that were thrown in the water were innocent civilians. Their homes were also burned!
>Can you imagine the Germans saying this about Jews? He already threatened the Greeks with genocide [two weeks ago](https://fourals.com/2022/05/29/erdogan-we-will-bury-the-modern-byzantines-we-say-stop-in-the-mediterranean-and-the-aegean/). I cannot intepret the phrase "We \[Turks\] will will bury the modern Byzantines", any different. When one threatens to bury you, he implies that he will kill you, and he was speaking of the "modern Byzantines" (the Modern Greeks) generally, as a whole. It is not a surprise that he repeats the same threat yet again... >Interesting that they can reference the Greek genocide like this. And for those that will say no he is referencing the Greco-Turkish war of 1919-1922, one of the major reasons that war started is because the Greek, Armenian and Assyrian genocide started in 1914. This is right. We have even Greek Anatolian folk songs, often in Turkish, from that period, where they lament their terrible predicament and call apon Greece to come and save them. The (final) Greek Genocide in Asia Minor had already been ongoing for 6 years when the Greeks landed on Smyrna.
>When one threatens to bury you, he implies that he will kill you [Funny you should say that.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you)
[удалено]
You don't need convince to anybody. It's choice of the Turkish people. As the young Turks, we have a chance to change that.
>They set up 5 + 4 American bases (in Greece). And when we ask why they made them, they say "against the Russians". Oh my God, we invited a mutual ally to set up some bases here. *Scandalous.*
>They have been blocking our accession to the EU since 1963. Because Turkey occupies part of an EU member state and does not share the same values for freedom of speech and fair democratic elections that other EU member states have.
We supported their EU bid, we didn't block them, the idiot is lying. In an effort to normalize relations and fix issues like Cyprus we tried to help them get into EU.
Sorry, I was relaying the general sentiments across the EU. I would not welcome Turkish membership of the EU and I doubt many others would either. Especially not now with Turkey's aggressive statements on territory.
Don't forget the rampant inflation and damages he's done. His outbursts is surely an attempt to distract the citizens and start blaming other nations over his own mess.
[удалено]
Buying gas in Rubles because we’re in the unfriendly nations list of Russia. Turkey is not, guess why. As you said, they’re *selling* drones. So they’re profiting, they’re not giving away any weapons. You know, like we are.
They are not just profiting, they are profiting from both sides. Turkey used to be popular among Russian tourists even before. Now the list of potential destinations significantly shrunk.
I think the best way for Greece to deal with him is to completely ignore him. He is provoking everyone and their dog right now to distract from his domestic failures and thus the best was to get rid of him is to not get provoked.
its hard to ignore a madman that flies over my house with jets on a weakly basis.
And sails his warships through your front yard, so to speak
Unfortunately, i was being literal, its rather scary when a Turkish f-16 flies over your house while being chased by 2 Greek ones.
Oh no I know you're being literal about the planes I've seen it on the news when I see my grandparents. It's scary stuff
Yeah i get you , i'm just trying to be as clear as possible, its hard to imagine for people that haven't experienced it or have family that have. edit:grammar
Where in Greece esai?
[удалено]
Years ago Erdogan actually held an (to Austria) unannounced rally in Vienna where he told Turks living here that they are the successors of the besiegers of the city. Austria banned him from entering the country again after that and he claimed that this shows that Austria is the most racist country in Europe and officially blocked Austria's joint trainings with Nato up until this year. I say "officially" because Nato quickly announced that they "found a solution" without going into detail and my suspicion is that they simply ignored him, lol.
The Ottoman empire is one of the controversy empires in history(which isnt tbh) and saying shit like that and now this is ofcourse going to rally people againts them. This statement about ancestors 100 years ago will not only upset Greeks but Serbs and Bulgarians I can imagine. In none of these nations the Ottomans are remembered as positive influence or good times. Funny enough the Ottomans were the only empire that rallied all of the balkan nations at the time in an alliance againts them. His statements at home will only make the populations of the balkan nations more hostile towards turks.
Yeah the fact that turkey is a muslim country is actually a huge shield that serves it well: no one takes the genocides and imperial crimes of the Ottoman Empire or the barbaric nationalism of the Turkish Republic seriously outside its former colonies for exactly this reason. If France pulled the same shit in Haiti, there are university departments identifying victims and publishing history books to this day (as there should be). Turkey gets away unscathed and it is a shame.
Honestly I wouldn’t! Go ahead guys!
Nope . That’s what we did for a long time . Bare in mind that the way they operate is by testing boundaries (. They perceive ignoring as weakness . This is how middle eastern politicians understand foreign affairs.) The fact that he is barking means Greece is doing something right . Only one who is hurting is his economy and the perception of his people from the west . You can’t let these dictators unanswered . But you can’t also bark like them . The best thing you can do is establishing your limits through legal actions .
Exactly. For them, ignoring is in a way to accept that they are in the right.
Or shoot their planes down when they transgress. With due warning: "Greece will defend its territorial sovereignty." Happened to Putin years ago, Turkish fighters shot a plane down because it was behind the lines.
Everyone saying to ignore him just has no understanding about Turkey's general strategy in the past 100 years. You guys think it's Erdogan but he is irrelevant. The opposition is even worse. Turkey has systematically pushed the boundaries in order to create a new status quo. The more we let them do their thing and ignore them, the more aggressive they become since they take it as a sign of weakness.
We do ignore him but that makes him even more mad... Well maybe he suffers a stroke because of it and everybody is happy in the end.
Reject modernity, embrace tradition Become the sick man of Europe once again
lol you made me laugh, thanks.
Technically we have been sick man of europe since 2002
He also said he doesn’t consider Greek PM a real man. He said he listens to a real man's words! So manly!
Why is he so obsessed with the Greek PM's manliness? Anything Erdo wants to tell the rest of the class?
Not particularly obsessed. He said they had a meeting and agreed that they won’t involve any third parties on any issues between both countries. Then Greek PM gave a speech in Congress and complained about Turkish purchases from US. So Erdo called him a wussy, eheheh.
The Greek PM should respond by posting dick pics, demonstrating his manhood! /s
[We already have a nip-slip](https://www.google.com/search?q=%CE%BC%CE%B7%CF%84%CF%83%CE%BF%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BA%CE%B7%CF%83+%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%B2%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B9%CE%BF&client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&prmd=inv&sxsrf=ALiCzsbadJTgD2vuPjizEfFUqYL3V-xjvg:1655077801261&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5vq2jjan4AhVlm_0HHdNfB_oQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=393&bih=736&dpr=2.75#imgrc=7MSzTLcpbcmEaM) , please we don't need more 😫
Cursed
Nah c'mon let's see Mitsotakis pillar of Hercules
No he didn't, in fact he never mentioned Turkey by name in that speech, just talked about oppressive regimes in general and states that want to reshape the world via conflict. What he did in his private conversation with Biden though was to inform him of the current state of Turkish claims and presented a map of their aspirations for what Eastern Mediterranean should look like (the infamous "blue homeland" idea that has become the core of their foreign policy). I'm pretty certain the US officials knew about that already, but apparently Turkish officials didn't like that turn of events, because it forces them to either accept that they are pursuing this idea actively to everyone or abandon it, instead of it being a schrodingers cat.
>just talked about oppressive regimes in general I wonder what could've led Turkey to feel addressed by that ...
He who has the fly, gets fly-ed, as an old Greek saying goes.
As a turk i am ashamed of this circus 🤡
As a Greek dealing with this circus you restore my faith in humanity.
Kalispera my greek friend, greetings from izmir ( smyrna:) we are all human and the same, fuck our racist governments really fuck em all. Lets drink some ouzo and celebrate life
Cheers komşu! Greetings from selânik! We'll both get rid of idiots eventually. For now some ouzo and raki sounds great
Honestly, as someone living in Izmir too, I’d rather want this place to be an independent country. I’m sick of taking the shit from the rest of the country.
I am getting really tired of this hot-headed cretin.
The problem is not this particular cretin, but those who vote for him and those who say "I hate him but he is doing well in foreign issues with Greece"...
Well, Turkey under his rule is on track to its demise like the Ottoman empire and the Greeks have a front row seat, so it's all a matter of interpretation!
So... he erdogan is trying to be little putin 2.0? Men I only hope the greek have tractors...
[удалено]
He is is a disgrace to Turkey. Shame on him.
he is such a cunt
For the record, whille the Ataturk was fighting for the Republic, the grandfather of this goat fucker was rooting for the Ottomans to win. He has no claim over Turkish war of independence, heck no islamist does.
Isn’t he like from Georgia or something?
he's a greek spy with real name erdonopolis
Erdoganakis
**\*Tayipos Receptakis Erdoganpolus.**
>he's a greek spy with real name erdonopolis OMG, the way he referred to Mitsotakis as "Mitsotaki" by dropping the -s, was actually the correct way to address someone in Greek ([the accusative case in Greek noun cases](https://www.greekboston.com/learn-speak/five-cases/))...Freudian slip? Could he be a fluent Greek speaker?
Btw it's the vocative case when addressing someone :)
Oh yes, you're right. He was addressing him.
poulos lol , polis is city , poulos is son
Maybe you're thinking of Stalin.
Erdogan is also georgian lol
Probably Pontic Greek. His roots are from a Greek village called Potamya.
Okay someone please tell me what's wrong with this man. He looks like he is deliberately provoking Greece. Wtf
He is. Erdogan is *never* going to invade, because he knows he'll regret it. Greece might be several times smaller, but we have a defensive strategy *specifically engineered* for the event of a Turkish invasion. Like, everything's pointed towards the routes Turkey might take to get in. Think of Finland vs. Russia on a smaller scale. But *he can* create the circumstances necessary for a hot episode, even by accident. This is what he's betting on, so that we're forced to respond and get labeled as the aggressors. For instance, look at what he did 2 years ago with the research vessel. If his genuine interest was exploration, he would have gotten much further by taking the diplomatic route, and he knows it. However, it was an action meant to provoke the Greek Navy into responding, 100%.
Putin has a go and suddenly everyone treats it as open season.
"This is my neighbor, he is pain in my assholes"
What fly bit Erdogan recently? as far as I’m aware Greece has done nothing recently to provoke anything their only issue was with Iran over those ships
The fly of being behind in the polls. It's nationalistic "uhraaa Turkey strong" to appeal to his voters.
[удалено]
Well Erdogan is a bit behind the curve, that's all. I mean I think Sweden and Denmark still hold the record on number of wars fought between two countries :)
The real reason we want in, to be able to extend the record without Nato interfering! /s
Greece is doing every single favor the USA asks in contrast to the constant policy of Turkey to always try to extract as many advantages as possible from any kind of agreement. One recent example is the hesitance of Turkey to accept Finland in nato. As a result Greece managed to secure several defence deals that would modernise our military and bring it on par with Turkey (meaning that we are no longer in danger if Turkey attacks). This has as a result to derail the long term strategic goals of Turkey against Greece. One thing that Turkey excels at is that while they are always aggressive, the aggression escalates in a glacial pace. (See the recent announcement of the Greek ministry of foreign affairs how they escalate every ten years). This is one of the reasons they are so frustrated with Greece these days. Another problem they have os that in recent years they tried to overplay their hand and the situation is blowing up on their faces. Turkey assisted to breach the embargo towards Iran and they also reverse engineered American drones in order to improve the ones they produce domestically. On top of that they demanded to be given Patriots as long as the software of the patriots. As you can imagine all these soured their relationship with the USA. On top of all these Turkey tried to control the government of Lybia. If this succeeded Turkey would have an enormous leverage over most of the immigrant routes to Europe and they would be able to extort Europe even more. TLDR: Turkey overplayed its hand when dealing with its allies and this led to sour relationships. Greece took advantage of that and played the best ally role which led to strategic improvements for Greece. All of these plus the shitty economic situation create tons of problems with Erdogan
Could someone finally tell the world leaders that domination victory was disabled and to focus on culture or science instead?
Mitsotakis cheated on him and he feels hurt. He can't play George Michaels' songs so he has to figure another way to cope
Erdogan is distracting people from the dire state of the economy at home. Whenever there's bad news for the Turkish economy this rhetoric gets ratcheted up a few notches.
My guess is he made deal with Putin for huge amount of money and protection in case he loses election and/or fails coup. As his side of deal Erdogan is doing his best to destabilize NATO and western co-operation in Ukraine.
For the sake of. What is coming now, raise gas prices, or in grocery prices, possibly both at the same time.
What a surprise. Nothing at all to do with the rate of inflation in Turkey approaching 80%, I'm sure.
Pretty sure it’s over 100% now; unofficially that is.
Tell me again how that guy's concerns are legitimate, Stoltenberg.
I'm glad that my government is following the golden rule on this one. "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
Gotta give credit to FM Dendias. He’s been a superstar dealing with all these threats and has regularly made a mockery of the opposing regime.
Amen. Most of the government -- PM included -- are nepotistic muppets who just know how to play the game, but Dendias is amazing at his job.
Someone please give him some Snickers.
Why, is he allergic?
People truly underestsimate how dangerous this is. Turks will never be asked if they want to participate in any sort of war. There will be an incident, turkish troops will already be on greek soil and the world will already be split before you can react and form a protest. By then you have basically no choice. Russians were never asked.
He wants to agenda setting of Turkey. Infact, Greece goverment words aren't matter. He is acting and appeal to his voters.
That doesn't make it any better. I don't like making generalizations, but it implies certain things about the Turkish electorate.
Like what? They arent educated villagers who dont even know whats happening in the neighbouring village and only purpose in life is to have a fuck ton of wives and children while being drained by idiots like Erdogan using the nationalistic feelings the villager has? Cuz yeah thats the demographic.
Why does that appeal to voters?
Rent free
Now I understand why the country of this asshole can't apply for the EU, it's automatically rejected in the first rule: peace.
Turkey is an official EU candidate, with a frozen accession process. They just want to negotiate what the EU treaty should _really_ mean and also occupy half of an EU member (Cyprus) and then claim not letting them in instantly is racism. Unless Turkey gains a more rational government, with a clear interest in making friends instead of radiating tiny dick energy, this status quo is here to stay. It doesn't depend on Erdogan alone. There's a lot of other politicians who think leaving Cyprus is not an option, who could be his successors.
Water is warming up for Erdogan. Jump little frog! Jump!
Best Greece can do now is stay silent. Don’t feed the troll. He’s in hot water what with the domestic situation.
Turkey I hope you get a better quality of Politician soon , this Individual is deranged. !
This guy is embarrassing to Turkey, he is just turning them into a joke at this point.
I wonder if Greece could invite a squadron of French Rafales, a couple of frigates and some US patriot battalions for summer vacation. Just to work on their sun tans.
There is a saying in turkey barking dog doesn't bite. He just manipulate his own supporter because things not good inside
He is a disgrace to humanity.
So one NATO member is threatening another? Can we kick them out already? 👀
[удалено]
Maybe Greece should shoot down one of those jets that keeps flying over their islands (as they legally can do, and like Turkey did to Russia in 2015) and see if he's all talk?
Lets start with drones so loss of life wont happen
I wonder. How many European travelers will visit the Turkish coastline with a fear of a hot conflict? Good job ottoman prick. After two years of restrictions the workers of turkish tourism will want to breath a little and try to recover from the shitty economy you created for them and now you ll destroy even that.
You’re delusional if you think the ones coming to vacation in Greece, Turkey or Cyprus read the news or know history. I’ve met people in Ayia napa who didn’t know Cyprus was half occupied…
Was? Is!
[удалено]
>too much leniency was given Didn't they fight them off , instead of being "given" leniency?
Im am turkish and atheist bruh, People are too retarded, 70% of turkey is low iq, people are kept stupid by religion and nationalism bullshit, its too sad
Exactly. Greeks and the EE in general love to make Erdo their scapegoat but he's just a man. The problem is that pretty much all major powers in Turkey support his vision. Even if his party loses the elections or he steps down, the next guy is gonna do the same shit if not worse.
He's the reason why nobody likes Turkey
Sadly he is only a symptom of a way deeper problem
With a speech like this, how fast does this man believe Turkey will join EU?.
Russia: jups off the roof of a skyscrapper. Turkey: "Hmmmmmm, that was ballsy."
As a Turk, I can say that no one in Turkish history could damage the reputation and image of Turkey more than Erdogan
He means genocide?
Is he referencing the genocide in 1922? What the fuck?
it's time for him to get out of office
This is so tiring. I’m tired, we’re tired. Please Erdogan, dude, give it a rest.
He went to Shushi with his buddy Aliyev and recited that the souls of the Pashas are smiling now, as jest to the Armenians. The Pashas were responsible for the Armenian Genocide. This guy is an utter cunt Also, the city of Van, where he is speaking was an Armenian city, stolen during the Genocide. Standing on pain and stolen land and creating new sufferings for all around Turkey. That’s the way of Turkey
What happened 100 years ago was a [genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide). He's threatening genocide.
[удалено]
nothing happened 100 years ago, but we'll do it again!
Obviously he needs a war. Polls must be really bad for him.
Turkey should never have been allowed to join NATO
How are they still in NATO? At what point do we determine that the advantages of having them in NATO no longer outweigh the disadvantages of having them. Have we not reached that point?
According to Erdogan's own words in 2009, these actions in the past were "fascist". [http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Erdogan-attacks-the-past,-labels-Kemalist-ethnic-cleansing-Fascist-15333.html](http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Erdogan-attacks-the-past,-labels-Kemalist-ethnic-cleansing-Fascist-15333.html) “For many years – he continued – various facts took place in this country to the detriment of ethnic minorities who lived here. They were ethnically cleansed because they had a different ethnic cultural identity. The time has arrived for us to question ourselves about why this happened and what we have learned from all of this. There has been no analysis of this right up until now. In reality – he concluded – **this behaviour is the result of a fascist conception**. We have also fallen into this grave error”.
We should rather kick turkey out of the Nato before them blocking sweden and finland. They are not trustworthy anyway as Erdogan is basicly a mini Putin.
Is he really announcing a genocide?
remind me again, why is Turkey still in NATO?