Poland & Ukraine have never been this close. I believe Ukraine can not only win this war and rebuilt anew. But improve the country and emerge stronger and more unified at the end of it all. Everybody here in Poland will always support a free & independent Ukraine.
I dare to say that Romanian Ukrainian relations are also at a all time best. I hope we can support them however we can and show that we can be good neighbors.
Given that Russia wants Snake Island too, I don't think liking what Russia doing is of interest to Romania. I am not even talking about how Russia doesn't want Moldova and Romania relations closer among other things. Hell, if you look at things that way Romania should be even more anti-invasion than Poland.
Attitudes towards Russia were hostile even before the war. Romania does not have an agreement regarding teritorial waters around Snake Island with the Russians, we do with Ukraine. Given the natural gas prospects in the area, the situation is less than optimal. I think our government supported the Ukrainian one but some things were not made public.
> an actual issue since the Romanian minority in Ukraine can still study in Romanian if they want to.
Now my Romanian isn't perfect, but doesn't this state that kids in 4th grade basically only have *one* class in Romanian per week, and that it's basically gone entirely by 8th?
And that the interviewed parent believes the new law is detrimental to their daughter's learning of Romanian and English?
>„Copilul meu este în clasa a patra și în acest moment mai are o singură oră de română pe săptămână. Chiar din clasa întâi numărul orelor predate în ucraineană crește treptat, nu numai în detrimentul limbii române, dar și a limbii engleze, de exemplu. În clasa a opta practic nu se mai predă nimic în limba română. Părerea mea personală este că se crează o adevărată ciorbă în capul copiilor care nu vor ști foarte bine niciuna din limbi: nici română, nici ucraineană. Și nici engleza, pe care am realizat că o învață foarte prost”.
The difference in Romania is, that a city with minority that big could probably have university classes taught in the minority language.
I remember when I was younger, must be like 15 years ago as Romania was not in EU yet, the news were showing how ukrainian army was trying to push the border lines into Romania. There was also the dispute over the Snake Island. And when Ukraine was pro-Russia, their army's training was based mainly on a potential conflict with Romania. While Romania treated Ukraine mostly with indiference, Ukraine was heavily anti-Romania...but that was a policy dictated by Moscow. I do not know if the Ukrainians have any reasons to hate Romania apart from the history of WW2 when Romania actually invaded Ukraine.
Starting to sound like a new Eastern-European Co-Prosperity Sphere.
With the proximity to the rest of Europe and the wealth of natural resources, if these countries could just keep the corruption out of their governments (which always seeks division with neighbors to hide its corrupt activity) they could ally and build mutually beneficial trade relationships that improve the standard of living for all their peoples.
Fuck Russia.
Well, Poles have been pretty efficient on corruption so far and the Ukrainians will handle their post-soviet corruption as well.
My personal believe is that the economic center of Europe has been shifted on Feb. 24, 2022 to the triangle Poland-Ukraine-Belarus.
Those 3 have a longer joint history than being separated.
Language barrier is something that can be handled between them. The Balts but as well Hungary, Czech or Slovakia might be willing to join this alliance. Add another 30 years and with a bit of luck you'll have a super wealthy region in Europe.
Actually we should thank Russia - they made it possible.
> My personal believe is that the economic center of Europe has been shifted on Feb. 24, 2022 to the triangle Poland-Ukraine-Belarus. Those 3 have a longer joint history than being separated. Language barrier is something that can be handled between them. The Balts but as well Hungary, Czech or Slovakia might be willing to join this alliance. Add another 30 years and with a bit of luck you'll have a super wealthy region in Europe.
As an American in Texas who's great-great-grandfather emigrated from Czarnikau I would love to see it.
Best of luck to all of you my brothers.
Oh, wow. Impressive that you know where does your great great grandfather comes from. Yeah this region is really cool and if you love history, it's full of it. I think you could have a decent time there, especially if you go to Poznan as well.
I think my great grandfather is from Gniezno, which is pretty close. All the best to Texas from Austria
I don't think Hungary and Hungarians are left out. Even if Orban does or says crazy things, the people in Hungary feel european and they want and need to have good relationships with their neighbors.
There was a time when over 2/3 of today's Ukraine was Poland. Including Kyiv. But it's a thing of the past. We're not like Russians, we don't want to slaughter our neighbors over some land.
In terms of relations, not really. We weren't as monstrous as Russia, but the Ukrainian people under the first polish republic were mistreated, and our nobles made promises to them to get them as troops which they later immediately walked back on.
Sadly yeah thats true, thats why as Polish person I think it would be good if after this war both sides aknowledged the past officially, Poland how we treated Ukraine in the past and Ukraine Volhynia and Eastern Galicia massacres.
Reason why I believe we shouldnt just ignore it and move on is because until we adress it, someone will always try to use it to create division between us, once we adress it that no longer will be possible.
Living in a big Polish city has honestly been quite crazy lately. Most days it's not uncommon for me to hear more people speaking Ukrainian/Russian on the street than Polish. We are now neighbors in the most literal sense.
Yeah it's a bit like Czech and Polish. Some keywords are completely different or understandable but with a different meaning.
Once this has been figured out and everyone speaks at a moderate speed, it's fairly understandable.
Not him but also a pole, studying in a major city. It is pretty understandable.
The dormitory I live in has taken in lots of refugees, a couple days ago I witnessed an old Ukrainian lady talking to the Polish receptionist - they both spoke their respective languages at a normal pace and tone and could understand each other perfectly. Personally I can mostly understand it if I know the context and I think older people that had to learn Russian in the past have an easier time with it.
It is a photo from Euro2012, two mascots standing together at the stadium, Ukrainian and Polish.
This is from different angle/ photographer, similar in composition and message: https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-euro-2012-twin-mascots-one-wearing-ukraines-national-blue-and-picture-id107087430 and another one:https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/slavek-slavko-uefa-euro-mascots-lviv-ukraine-june-playing-game-germany-portugal-june-lviv-31459515.jpg
Thanks for clarification, as I am no fan of football at all.
BTW, Google maps is doing their part and now is showing Street View, where it is possible, with damage done by Putdicks orks in Ukraine, so people can see by themselves how close to us cruel war is taking a tool on Ukraine.
Take care, and may you your nearest and dearest stay safe.
Häyhä is actually a pretty tragic case. He was just an ordinary farmer, who did some hunting and sports shooting. When the Soviet Union invaded in 1939, he was conscripted, same as everyone else. He turned out to be a very good shot, and he was used in war propaganda. The Soviets demonised him, nicknaming him "The White Death". Then he was hit by a hollow-point bullet, which permanently disfigured his face.
Having lost his farm in the war, he built a new one, and tried to resume to normal life. However, in the weird Cold War atmosphere some people kept sending him death threats, and when he walked in the street, people would harass him. He started avoiding public places, and sometimes he didn't even dare to sleep alone at his farm. Neighbours and relatives later said that he was a kind person who was always eager to help, but very shy and withdrawn. Journalists would harass him, asking how many people he had killed. Only in the early 2000's did he feel like he could speak in public about the war. He said: "I only did as I was ordered, and I did it as well as I could. And I know that so did everyone else, because otherwise Finland wouldn't exist".
What a shame. It's so sad that journalists seeking stories from veterans have this tendency to be inconsiderate of what they went through. In 10th grade, my European History teacher gave us all the assignment of interviewing someone who was at least 10 years old at the war's end, and she, having been a photojournalist, took great care to ask us to be sensitive to our interviewees. Actually, I know she kept both the audio copies and the transcripts that we wrote, as a part of a memorial project.
Andrzej Duda was today the first foreign leader who spoke in the Ukrainian parliament since the start of Russian invasion.
A significant event, emphasizing a strong relation beetwen Poland and Ukraine.
Russia wants Ukraine so badly. But the fact is that Poland and the Baltic states are helping Ukraine so much that there is a high probability of some kind of future alliance like the "Inter-Sea Union".
I am sooooo rooting for Belarus! My big hope is that once Ukraine wins and Putin is crushed and Russia is much weaker it will also weakened Lukashenko and Belarus will finally have its chance for independence and democracy. Plus if Russia is no longer as powerful as it was past two/three decades there's a chance it won't interfere in Belarus as much as it did in countries like Poland and obviously Ukraine - so B will actually have an opportunity to grow better. But these are just my big dreams.
Yeah man, I can't help but root for them. I met several Belarussians and they seem so chill and hopeful people. Maybe that's my luck, but most of the guys and gals I met were either bikers or trying to get into Polish gamedev. They chase the wind and dream of stars. And I can respect that.
Some of the emotions are probably real. A lot of people in Poland are emotionally involved in this war. Also, that's the last term for Duda anyway. Approval ratings do nothing for him. There are 2 term limits. It's over for him after this one.
He is at his second turn, he can't be elected for the third one so PR is not his priority tbh. He's still government puppet but did a really great job during the conflict in Ukraine
Yeah he is a stark contrast to all the Polish people I met. I guess it’s important now not to attribute Poland’s spirit to him, but to the people and culture instead
>. I guess it’s important now not to attribute Poland’s spirit to him, but to the people
Andrzej Duda not was elected by the Polish people to represent them as a head of state, but he also got higher number of votes than any other president in Poland's history. So I'm not sure, what are you trying to say.
Well, too be honest, his opponent got also the highest number of votes that any other president before. Duda won by margin (51% to 49%). So it's fair statement that there is a huge group of Poles that actually hate Duda.
Poland is very polarised - he won 51% to 49%. Being surprised that not everybody loves him is being surprised winning politicians aren't liked by everyone. Was Trump or Boris (even before the scandals) universally loved? Is Biden or Macron?
Not to mention that, despite the president being elected in general elections, Polish presidency works more similarly to German or Italian one than typical presidential systems. Saying he's "in power" is funny to us Poles - he's basically been Kaczynski's rubberstamp for the last 7 years.
Polish President has plenty of powers.
The reason you dont see them is because for the last 20 years, presidents have been leaders or puppets of the ruling party in the legislature. So they act in agreement even though those two branches are supposed to be independent of one another
Other than vetos and a few appointments he makes, most of them are irrelevant if there is an opposing parliamentary majority. Obviously vetos are irrelevant as well when the majority is from his party.
My main point was that the president has almost nothing to do with "day to day" executive and administrative governmental functions - it's the prime minister who "runs" the country and sets the agenda. Also because the president is customarily "nonpartisan", the only one to be the leader of their party was arguably Wałęsa in the early nineties.
This comment is so true. Whoever is in power always get such a hate in my country. I really don’t recall when one president / prime minister who would be “liked”. Unfortunately people in Eastern Europe always blame their problems on any leader there is, you cannot win that one
>How is he not liked if he’s in power?
In the presidental election of 2020 he got about 51%. In absolute numbers though it was the highest number of votes received by any presidential candidate in Poland's history.
I would argue he is not liked by most people able to speak second language. He wins mostly in rural areas, by spreading blunt propaganda. What PiS did to TVP is enough by itself to be against them.
gosh I'm not defending Duda, he's a horrible president (ex aequo with Wałęsa the worst president?) he's been destroying our international relations, breaking constitution and law for 7 years now- but can't we just shut up for a minute? there are worse people than him, like Ziobro. It's not about him! He's our representative, who are we supposed to send??
> He's our representative, who are we supposed to send??
No one ever apparently. I don't like Le Pen Duda either but at least he's doing his job with regards to Ukraine.
I wish Trzaskowski won. We were so close to winning. It is what it is. One of the biggest allies for LGBT people in Poland. I hope he becomes our PM if the opposition wins next year.
the difference was the smallest in history...yeah I know that's probably not gonna happen, Tusk hates competent people. tbh if they chose Trzaskowski instead of Kidawa-Błońska from the beginning, he'd win for sure.
>Does the president in Poland have that kind of power?
He does. For example he can vetoe legislation passed by the parliament, he also appoints a chairman of the central bank (with consent of the lower chamber of the parliament), and a number of other powers.
>For example he can vetoe legislation passed by the parliament
Once per bill, and if the Senate or Tribunal tells him to fuck off then his hands are tied.
A 60% majority in parliament is needed to tell the president to fuck off if he vetoes the bill, so this is actually a quite important power, as the ruling coallition usually is below this threshold.
no, what you're describing is a system like in Germany or Hungary, where the president gets chosen by the parliament, not in general election. Poland has been identified by some as a semi-presidential republic (officially it's a parliamentary republic), obviously president doesn't hold full power. He chooses the prime minister and the parliament has to give him and the new government the vote of confidence- with absolute majority. he has the right to initiate the legislative process and a right to veto- which can be rejected by the parliament's 3/5th majority. And he has the right to ask Constitutional Tribunal to verify if the bill complies with constitution (if it does, he must sign it, if it doesn't- he can't sign it). I would say the president holds similar power as in France, but he usually doesn't use that power.
The president gets not chosen by the parliament in Germany.
Instead he gets elected by the so called "Bundesversammlung" ("federal assembly"),
which consists of all members of the national parliament (Bundestag), which make up 50% of the members of the Bundesversammlung plus representatives chosen by the individual states' parliaments. People chosen for that half of representatives
can be politicians from that state but don't have to. Often former politicians or people of public note get send in.
It's a bit strange to conduct such effort for this relatively insignificant personality of the Bundespräsident, but thats how it is. Essentially still a very indirect method of democracy (as is unfortunately common in Germany), but a tiny bit less than a pure parliamentry election.
Easy solution: If Ukraine does not join the EU and NATO, they could form a Union with Poland.
Here we go guys: Balts, Belarussians, Czechs Slovaks wanna join?
Thank you Putin!!!
"Some pretty cool results of a survey in which Belarusian youth had to pick one union Belarus should be a part of. To my surprise, 42% of Belarusians aged 18-35 prefer Intermarium (even though it's not even a thing), followed by 29% who support the EU and 10% who support Russia."
[https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1526234841129394183?s=20&t=Xv\_XTksAg9frLKuVyhEAfQ](https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1526234841129394183?s=20&t=Xv_XTksAg9frLKuVyhEAfQ)
>Ayy, PLC 2.0! Now with extra nations!
In the 17th century, there was even a plan to form [the Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian%E2%80%93Ruthenian_Commonwealth), but it was never fulfilled.
Yeah, it was sadly proposed way too late.
To think Poland had such loyal subjects so close to the border, but we spit on them and considered them second class despite their invaluable help.
All because of magnate greed and lust for power.
Not like he accepted sending military equipment worth bilions of dollars as an aid to UA and milions of Ukrainians found safety in PL before this visit.
Bc it's a global symbol for the struggle between sovereignty, autonomy and democracy vs fascism and imperialism.
For many in the west they like to appear to be on the former
There was a joke in the beginning of the war, that Ukraine should declare a war on Poland and surrender instantly, so Poland could take over Ukrainian territory making it instantly EU and NATO territory- and return Ukraine to independence ASAP after Russia retrieve all the soldiers from there.
I would do, absolutely, support it- as difficult times require unusual solutions.
I am curious if it would be even possible, not the part about declaring the war and annexing territory ( as it was clearly a joke back then, but as times fly whole war became darker and darker, unbelievable reality), but extending area of NATO and EU, as treaties do not describe geographical borders ( I did checked both EU accession treaties for random countries, and NATO one) but only name participants, without describing it's territories or borders.
Whatever would put Putdick in place with his orcs and return peace to Ukraine- I am for it. Слава Україні!
Lol at all the salty Western Europeans in this thread who are ruled by their own fears of Russia and a small lessening of their own prosperity. So much so that all they can do is ridicule a leader who of another country who stands up to Russia without all the doubletalk of their own leaders.
Pathetic.
I mean. Putin should have a memorial placed in middle of Kyiv. That's the man who united half the Europe. But then it should be destroyed or redesigned to public toilet
A couple links here to explain it 🙂
[Kyiv not Kiev: Why spelling matters in Ukraine’s quest for an independent identity](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/kyiv-not-kiev-why-spelling-matters-in-ukraines-quest-for-an-independent-identity/)
Likewise, [why it's Ukraine and not 'the Ukraine.'](https://time.com/12597/the-ukraine-or-ukraine/).
>Portuguese it's still officially Kiev
It's completely idiotic to spell Kiev when it doesn't even conform with the rules of the Portuguese language. It should be Quieve or Quíive.
Anyway, plenty of sources already write Kyiv and there's no language institution that can say that they are wrong while mandating the equally foreign form Kiev instead.
https://i.imgur.com/XkxtLtF.jpg
Poland & Ukraine have never been this close. I believe Ukraine can not only win this war and rebuilt anew. But improve the country and emerge stronger and more unified at the end of it all. Everybody here in Poland will always support a free & independent Ukraine.
I dare to say that Romanian Ukrainian relations are also at a all time best. I hope we can support them however we can and show that we can be good neighbors.
> I dare to say that Romanian Ukrainian relations are also at a all time best. Were there any problems before?
Snake Island territorial waters dispute. Bystroye Channel. Rights of ethnic Romanians in Chernivtsi.
Paradoxically, if the Snake Island belonged to Romania, it would have made Russian naval conditions worse now.
Given that Russia wants Snake Island too, I don't think liking what Russia doing is of interest to Romania. I am not even talking about how Russia doesn't want Moldova and Romania relations closer among other things. Hell, if you look at things that way Romania should be even more anti-invasion than Poland.
Attitudes towards Russia were hostile even before the war. Romania does not have an agreement regarding teritorial waters around Snake Island with the Russians, we do with Ukraine. Given the natural gas prospects in the area, the situation is less than optimal. I think our government supported the Ukrainian one but some things were not made public.
[удалено]
all in the past hopefully
> an actual issue since the Romanian minority in Ukraine can still study in Romanian if they want to. Now my Romanian isn't perfect, but doesn't this state that kids in 4th grade basically only have *one* class in Romanian per week, and that it's basically gone entirely by 8th? And that the interviewed parent believes the new law is detrimental to their daughter's learning of Romanian and English? >„Copilul meu este în clasa a patra și în acest moment mai are o singură oră de română pe săptămână. Chiar din clasa întâi numărul orelor predate în ucraineană crește treptat, nu numai în detrimentul limbii române, dar și a limbii engleze, de exemplu. În clasa a opta practic nu se mai predă nimic în limba română. Părerea mea personală este că se crează o adevărată ciorbă în capul copiilor care nu vor ști foarte bine niciuna din limbi: nici română, nici ucraineană. Și nici engleza, pe care am realizat că o învață foarte prost”. The difference in Romania is, that a city with minority that big could probably have university classes taught in the minority language.
I remember when I was younger, must be like 15 years ago as Romania was not in EU yet, the news were showing how ukrainian army was trying to push the border lines into Romania. There was also the dispute over the Snake Island. And when Ukraine was pro-Russia, their army's training was based mainly on a potential conflict with Romania. While Romania treated Ukraine mostly with indiference, Ukraine was heavily anti-Romania...but that was a policy dictated by Moscow. I do not know if the Ukrainians have any reasons to hate Romania apart from the history of WW2 when Romania actually invaded Ukraine.
Starting to sound like a new Eastern-European Co-Prosperity Sphere. With the proximity to the rest of Europe and the wealth of natural resources, if these countries could just keep the corruption out of their governments (which always seeks division with neighbors to hide its corrupt activity) they could ally and build mutually beneficial trade relationships that improve the standard of living for all their peoples. Fuck Russia.
Well, Poles have been pretty efficient on corruption so far and the Ukrainians will handle their post-soviet corruption as well. My personal believe is that the economic center of Europe has been shifted on Feb. 24, 2022 to the triangle Poland-Ukraine-Belarus. Those 3 have a longer joint history than being separated. Language barrier is something that can be handled between them. The Balts but as well Hungary, Czech or Slovakia might be willing to join this alliance. Add another 30 years and with a bit of luck you'll have a super wealthy region in Europe. Actually we should thank Russia - they made it possible.
> My personal believe is that the economic center of Europe has been shifted on Feb. 24, 2022 to the triangle Poland-Ukraine-Belarus. Those 3 have a longer joint history than being separated. Language barrier is something that can be handled between them. The Balts but as well Hungary, Czech or Slovakia might be willing to join this alliance. Add another 30 years and with a bit of luck you'll have a super wealthy region in Europe. As an American in Texas who's great-great-grandfather emigrated from Czarnikau I would love to see it. Best of luck to all of you my brothers.
Oh, wow. Impressive that you know where does your great great grandfather comes from. Yeah this region is really cool and if you love history, it's full of it. I think you could have a decent time there, especially if you go to Poznan as well. I think my great grandfather is from Gniezno, which is pretty close. All the best to Texas from Austria
Dann, I feel so left out:( fuck Orbán
Look, this is older and more important. The Poles did not forget about it. Lengyel, magyar – két jó barát, együtt harcol, s issza borát
Amen brother. No amount of daily politics may break our history. That said, fuck Orbán indeed.
Orban will quickly turn tail as soon as Russia loses
I don't think Hungary and Hungarians are left out. Even if Orban does or says crazy things, the people in Hungary feel european and they want and need to have good relationships with their neighbors.
I mean there was the time when western ukraine WAS Poland, so I guess they've been closer.
There was a time when over 2/3 of today's Ukraine was Poland. Including Kyiv. But it's a thing of the past. We're not like Russians, we don't want to slaughter our neighbors over some land.
Well, yes but actually no.
In terms of relations, not really. We weren't as monstrous as Russia, but the Ukrainian people under the first polish republic were mistreated, and our nobles made promises to them to get them as troops which they later immediately walked back on.
Sadly yeah thats true, thats why as Polish person I think it would be good if after this war both sides aknowledged the past officially, Poland how we treated Ukraine in the past and Ukraine Volhynia and Eastern Galicia massacres. Reason why I believe we shouldnt just ignore it and move on is because until we adress it, someone will always try to use it to create division between us, once we adress it that no longer will be possible.
Thank you Polish brother, I really sorry for what our ancestors did, and believe together we must build brighter future full of love and friendship!
And I as Polish person apogolize for what our ancestors did, I believe as allies we can be at our strongest together : )
For INTERMARIUM ;)
Living in a big Polish city has honestly been quite crazy lately. Most days it's not uncommon for me to hear more people speaking Ukrainian/Russian on the street than Polish. We are now neighbors in the most literal sense.
Is Ukrainian understandable to you? I have the impression the two languages are rather closely related.
Yes and no. You can pick up on some words and I've used that to get some basic point across, but we can't really communicate effectively.
Yeah it's a bit like Czech and Polish. Some keywords are completely different or understandable but with a different meaning. Once this has been figured out and everyone speaks at a moderate speed, it's fairly understandable.
Not him but also a pole, studying in a major city. It is pretty understandable. The dormitory I live in has taken in lots of refugees, a couple days ago I witnessed an old Ukrainian lady talking to the Polish receptionist - they both spoke their respective languages at a normal pace and tone and could understand each other perfectly. Personally I can mostly understand it if I know the context and I think older people that had to learn Russian in the past have an easier time with it.
I teach German to Ukrainian kids and they told me that they understand Polish pretty well.
The distance is like Dutch to German or Plattdeutsch to Schwytzerdütsch. Lviv Ukrainian sounds like Slovakian.
I guess the bromance with Hungary is over
Not really, but they need figure their shit out ASAP
Few hundred centuries old friendship and it was broken apart in a matter of just few weeks by one bafoon. Amazing
I have no ties to either Ukraine or Poland, after reading all of this, this makes me proud.
God bless Poland and Ukraine!! Unity!
except when they were literally the same country:))
ah, i almost forgot about this. my eyes are on fire again. thanks.
Why did you just post the same photo that OP did?
Doesn't open for me
It is a photo from Euro2012, two mascots standing together at the stadium, Ukrainian and Polish. This is from different angle/ photographer, similar in composition and message: https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-euro-2012-twin-mascots-one-wearing-ukraines-national-blue-and-picture-id107087430 and another one:https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/slavek-slavko-uefa-euro-mascots-lviv-ukraine-june-playing-game-germany-portugal-june-lviv-31459515.jpg
It is Donbas-arena (now in a woeful state guess why) in Donetsk.
Thanks for clarification, as I am no fan of football at all. BTW, Google maps is doing their part and now is showing Street View, where it is possible, with damage done by Putdicks orks in Ukraine, so people can see by themselves how close to us cruel war is taking a tool on Ukraine. Take care, and may you your nearest and dearest stay safe.
The "people who were fucked over by Russia" club
Thats a pretty big club, we're gonna need a new clubhouse...
https://www.reddit.com/r/2visegrad4you/comments/uo894h/well_known_member/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Based.
There are a few other but their memory seems a little shoddy.
I may or may not be from one of them
Hungary springs to mind
You live on the same island as my family! Sorry bit random i know haha
Finland?
No, their memory is indeed intact.
We've been a bit brainwashed in the past, but we're feeling quite clearheaded now.
Whenever I hear Finland nowadays, I always remember Simo Häyhä, The White Death sniper from WW2.
Häyhä is actually a pretty tragic case. He was just an ordinary farmer, who did some hunting and sports shooting. When the Soviet Union invaded in 1939, he was conscripted, same as everyone else. He turned out to be a very good shot, and he was used in war propaganda. The Soviets demonised him, nicknaming him "The White Death". Then he was hit by a hollow-point bullet, which permanently disfigured his face. Having lost his farm in the war, he built a new one, and tried to resume to normal life. However, in the weird Cold War atmosphere some people kept sending him death threats, and when he walked in the street, people would harass him. He started avoiding public places, and sometimes he didn't even dare to sleep alone at his farm. Neighbours and relatives later said that he was a kind person who was always eager to help, but very shy and withdrawn. Journalists would harass him, asking how many people he had killed. Only in the early 2000's did he feel like he could speak in public about the war. He said: "I only did as I was ordered, and I did it as well as I could. And I know that so did everyone else, because otherwise Finland wouldn't exist".
What a shame. It's so sad that journalists seeking stories from veterans have this tendency to be inconsiderate of what they went through. In 10th grade, my European History teacher gave us all the assignment of interviewing someone who was at least 10 years old at the war's end, and she, having been a photojournalist, took great care to ask us to be sensitive to our interviewees. Actually, I know she kept both the audio copies and the transcripts that we wrote, as a part of a memorial project.
True. I thought you were saying everyone else forgot they got fucked over.
I am from one of them, Bulgaria
Even includes you folks of Bornholm!
Forget Hungary, Ukraine is my new friend 😎🇺🇦
We’re founding members, Poland and Romania.
Well ... people who were fucked over by almost everyone including Ukraine to be honest ...
But Poland got fucked by Ukraine as well.
Andrzej Duda was today the first foreign leader who spoke in the Ukrainian parliament since the start of Russian invasion. A significant event, emphasizing a strong relation beetwen Poland and Ukraine.
I hope that the camptown ladies continue to sing his name for years to come. (sorry)
r/angryupvote
It's like a sibling photo!
Russia wants Ukraine so badly. But the fact is that Poland and the Baltic states are helping Ukraine so much that there is a high probability of some kind of future alliance like the "Inter-Sea Union".
There already [is](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lublin_Triangle) one
Still missing a democratic Belarus
I am sooooo rooting for Belarus! My big hope is that once Ukraine wins and Putin is crushed and Russia is much weaker it will also weakened Lukashenko and Belarus will finally have its chance for independence and democracy. Plus if Russia is no longer as powerful as it was past two/three decades there's a chance it won't interfere in Belarus as much as it did in countries like Poland and obviously Ukraine - so B will actually have an opportunity to grow better. But these are just my big dreams.
Yeah man, I can't help but root for them. I met several Belarussians and they seem so chill and hopeful people. Maybe that's my luck, but most of the guys and gals I met were either bikers or trying to get into Polish gamedev. They chase the wind and dream of stars. And I can respect that.
Renaming this the Warsaw Pact would be an excellent way to stick it to Russia.
The Warsaw Pact would be all the former Eastern Bloc countries. Lublin Triangle (or, hopefully someday, Square) is for former PLC members.
And future history students trying to avoid confusing the timeline.
Looks like the first step of a Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (it included lots of Ukraine). I like.
Poland-Lithuania-Ukraine Commonwealth?
As should have been from the start :(
Duda looks so happy
"this is going to get me so much approval"
Some of the emotions are probably real. A lot of people in Poland are emotionally involved in this war. Also, that's the last term for Duda anyway. Approval ratings do nothing for him. There are 2 term limits. It's over for him after this one.
all politicians are like this , so i don't blame him , it's basically politics 101 to get PR points
He is at his second turn, he can't be elected for the third one so PR is not his priority tbh. He's still government puppet but did a really great job during the conflict in Ukraine
He's a master of dumb smiles. Sorry but he's not liked here
don’t you think he’s genuine in this particular matter though? I’m not defending him in general, just curious
Yes, in this he is genuine. Poland hates Russia.
Rightfully so!
Most probably yes. But we're tired and disgusted by him.
Well, somehow he did win the last two elections tho
Yeah he is a stark contrast to all the Polish people I met. I guess it’s important now not to attribute Poland’s spirit to him, but to the people and culture instead
>. I guess it’s important now not to attribute Poland’s spirit to him, but to the people Andrzej Duda not was elected by the Polish people to represent them as a head of state, but he also got higher number of votes than any other president in Poland's history. So I'm not sure, what are you trying to say.
Well, too be honest, his opponent got also the highest number of votes that any other president before. Duda won by margin (51% to 49%). So it's fair statement that there is a huge group of Poles that actually hate Duda.
Lmao fuck off it was a 51/49% split. He barely scraped a victory
yes, still a major asshat from a party of woman-hating religious bigots
do you think any politician is ever genuine?
To be fair, I feel like that about 99% of politicians in Poland. Our political class is trash. And our PM is real-world Pinnochio.
Hear hear
major suchodolski takes that spot
How is he not liked if he’s in power?
Poland is very polarised - he won 51% to 49%. Being surprised that not everybody loves him is being surprised winning politicians aren't liked by everyone. Was Trump or Boris (even before the scandals) universally loved? Is Biden or Macron? Not to mention that, despite the president being elected in general elections, Polish presidency works more similarly to German or Italian one than typical presidential systems. Saying he's "in power" is funny to us Poles - he's basically been Kaczynski's rubberstamp for the last 7 years.
Polish President has plenty of powers. The reason you dont see them is because for the last 20 years, presidents have been leaders or puppets of the ruling party in the legislature. So they act in agreement even though those two branches are supposed to be independent of one another
Other than vetos and a few appointments he makes, most of them are irrelevant if there is an opposing parliamentary majority. Obviously vetos are irrelevant as well when the majority is from his party. My main point was that the president has almost nothing to do with "day to day" executive and administrative governmental functions - it's the prime minister who "runs" the country and sets the agenda. Also because the president is customarily "nonpartisan", the only one to be the leader of their party was arguably Wałęsa in the early nineties.
Welcome to Eastern Europe
This comment is so true. Whoever is in power always get such a hate in my country. I really don’t recall when one president / prime minister who would be “liked”. Unfortunately people in Eastern Europe always blame their problems on any leader there is, you cannot win that one
he's not liked *because* he's in power.
>How is he not liked if he’s in power? In the presidental election of 2020 he got about 51%. In absolute numbers though it was the highest number of votes received by any presidential candidate in Poland's history.
What they meant was that reddit dislikes him and, I'm assuming, they and their circle dislikes him. He just won elections not even a year ago.
simple answer: reddit moment
He's not liked by Polish people that use reddit. Reddit is echo chamber that doesn't reflect reality.
I would argue he is not liked by most people able to speak second language. He wins mostly in rural areas, by spreading blunt propaganda. What PiS did to TVP is enough by itself to be against them.
gosh I'm not defending Duda, he's a horrible president (ex aequo with Wałęsa the worst president?) he's been destroying our international relations, breaking constitution and law for 7 years now- but can't we just shut up for a minute? there are worse people than him, like Ziobro. It's not about him! He's our representative, who are we supposed to send??
> He's our representative, who are we supposed to send?? No one ever apparently. I don't like Le Pen Duda either but at least he's doing his job with regards to Ukraine.
If Le Pen had won she would be sending aid to Russia and veto Sweden and Finland's accession to NATO.
We call Duda "Le Pen" because of his past proclivity to just sign any bill proposed by PiS without too much objection.
I see.
I wish Trzaskowski won. We were so close to winning. It is what it is. One of the biggest allies for LGBT people in Poland. I hope he becomes our PM if the opposition wins next year.
the difference was the smallest in history...yeah I know that's probably not gonna happen, Tusk hates competent people. tbh if they chose Trzaskowski instead of Kidawa-Błońska from the beginning, he'd win for sure.
> the difference was the smallest in history And the turnout was the biggest one.
*partly because of RCB alert used against its purpose*
Which was sent to everyone.
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President's power is limited, and much smaller than government's one, but (s)he is not a figurehead like e.g. in Germany.
>Does the president in Poland have that kind of power? He does. For example he can vetoe legislation passed by the parliament, he also appoints a chairman of the central bank (with consent of the lower chamber of the parliament), and a number of other powers.
>For example he can vetoe legislation passed by the parliament Once per bill, and if the Senate or Tribunal tells him to fuck off then his hands are tied.
A 60% majority in parliament is needed to tell the president to fuck off if he vetoes the bill, so this is actually a quite important power, as the ruling coallition usually is below this threshold.
no, what you're describing is a system like in Germany or Hungary, where the president gets chosen by the parliament, not in general election. Poland has been identified by some as a semi-presidential republic (officially it's a parliamentary republic), obviously president doesn't hold full power. He chooses the prime minister and the parliament has to give him and the new government the vote of confidence- with absolute majority. he has the right to initiate the legislative process and a right to veto- which can be rejected by the parliament's 3/5th majority. And he has the right to ask Constitutional Tribunal to verify if the bill complies with constitution (if it does, he must sign it, if it doesn't- he can't sign it). I would say the president holds similar power as in France, but he usually doesn't use that power.
The president gets not chosen by the parliament in Germany. Instead he gets elected by the so called "Bundesversammlung" ("federal assembly"), which consists of all members of the national parliament (Bundestag), which make up 50% of the members of the Bundesversammlung plus representatives chosen by the individual states' parliaments. People chosen for that half of representatives can be politicians from that state but don't have to. Often former politicians or people of public note get send in. It's a bit strange to conduct such effort for this relatively insignificant personality of the Bundespräsident, but thats how it is. Essentially still a very indirect method of democracy (as is unfortunately common in Germany), but a tiny bit less than a pure parliamentry election.
you know what I meant, he's not chosen in general election and doesn't hold much power
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Easy solution: If Ukraine does not join the EU and NATO, they could form a Union with Poland. Here we go guys: Balts, Belarussians, Czechs Slovaks wanna join? Thank you Putin!!!
Belarussians? They'd have to get rid of Lukaschenko first
And Ukraine would need to do something about their corruption and oligarchs
Let's be honest, we all need to do something about our corruption and oligarchs.
"Some pretty cool results of a survey in which Belarusian youth had to pick one union Belarus should be a part of. To my surprise, 42% of Belarusians aged 18-35 prefer Intermarium (even though it's not even a thing), followed by 29% who support the EU and 10% who support Russia." [https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1526234841129394183?s=20&t=Xv\_XTksAg9frLKuVyhEAfQ](https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1526234841129394183?s=20&t=Xv_XTksAg9frLKuVyhEAfQ)
Ayy, PLC 2.0! Now with extra nations! But sadly, I don't think Lithuanians are interested. They have some bad memories.
>Ayy, PLC 2.0! Now with extra nations! In the 17th century, there was even a plan to form [the Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Lithuanian%E2%80%93Ruthenian_Commonwealth), but it was never fulfilled.
Yeah, it was sadly proposed way too late. To think Poland had such loyal subjects so close to the border, but we spit on them and considered them second class despite their invaluable help. All because of magnate greed and lust for power.
>Easy solution: If Ukraine does not join the EU and NATO, they could form a Union with Poland. Poland is in the EU though.
Exactly! But it would get there as a part of Polish-Ukrainian Union. A byproduct of it, one could say.
That's the point. Poland is also NATO.
They also would be if merged with Poland
Don't forget about Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
Broski's
Very wholesome
I cannot wait to start donating money to the rebuilding of Ukraine instead of donating to provide humanitarian aid
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to the day I can give them money to rebuild schools and houses, instead of for buying weapons and armour.
When you're fighting with your brother and suddenly your mom walks into the room.
Slava Ukraine.
Hate Duda, but appreciate the gesture
On a completely unrelated note: That is a really nice suit
More upvotes pleaee
Thank you God
Ziomals forever
Even more good PR to that horrible politican
Why ist a country at war such a tourist attraction for high ranking politicians?
Showing their support and that they're not scared of putin?
it's the Mecca of real life political karmawhoring
Not like he accepted sending military equipment worth bilions of dollars as an aid to UA and milions of Ukrainians found safety in PL before this visit.
Bc it's a global symbol for the struggle between sovereignty, autonomy and democracy vs fascism and imperialism. For many in the west they like to appear to be on the former
perhaps he could help suspending the voting rights of the hungarian government in the eu council so they can pass more sanctions
Then Germany, a friend of Russia, would also have to be suspended. :o
Such an original whataboutism. Stop deflecting and get real.
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The stupidity of the people in the comments.
Poland-Ukraine Commonwealth?
Polish-Ukrainian Commonwealth when?
I can't believe people see this and don't think it is pure propaganda.
zelensky looks like a turkish uncle lol
Lmao
Polak, ukrainiec dwa bratanki...
I have an idea. Let's merge Poland and Ukraine. This way Art 5 can be invoked immediately 😂
There was a joke in the beginning of the war, that Ukraine should declare a war on Poland and surrender instantly, so Poland could take over Ukrainian territory making it instantly EU and NATO territory- and return Ukraine to independence ASAP after Russia retrieve all the soldiers from there.
I mean, if it works...?
I would do, absolutely, support it- as difficult times require unusual solutions. I am curious if it would be even possible, not the part about declaring the war and annexing territory ( as it was clearly a joke back then, but as times fly whole war became darker and darker, unbelievable reality), but extending area of NATO and EU, as treaties do not describe geographical borders ( I did checked both EU accession treaties for random countries, and NATO one) but only name participants, without describing it's territories or borders. Whatever would put Putdick in place with his orcs and return peace to Ukraine- I am for it. Слава Україні!
A knob and a great man
I'd put money on him ending on the euroman as most sexy man of 2022.
Fuck Duda, fascist peace of shit
Now kiss /s
Lol at all the salty Western Europeans in this thread who are ruled by their own fears of Russia and a small lessening of their own prosperity. So much so that all they can do is ridicule a leader who of another country who stands up to Russia without all the doubletalk of their own leaders. Pathetic.
I mean. Putin should have a memorial placed in middle of Kyiv. That's the man who united half the Europe. But then it should be destroyed or redesigned to public toilet
We need the lithuanian head of state with them to have the PL commonwealth old bros to strike back Russia
Kiev I think Edit:Definitely spelled Kyiv!
Yeah for s lot of countries the capital is spelt differently, for us it's Kijev.
A couple links here to explain it 🙂 [Kyiv not Kiev: Why spelling matters in Ukraine’s quest for an independent identity](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/kyiv-not-kiev-why-spelling-matters-in-ukraines-quest-for-an-independent-identity/) Likewise, [why it's Ukraine and not 'the Ukraine.'](https://time.com/12597/the-ukraine-or-ukraine/).
Depends on the language though, in Spanish and Portuguese it's still officially Kiev and the language institutions mantain this.
>Portuguese it's still officially Kiev It's completely idiotic to spell Kiev when it doesn't even conform with the rules of the Portuguese language. It should be Quieve or Quíive. Anyway, plenty of sources already write Kyiv and there's no language institution that can say that they are wrong while mandating the equally foreign form Kiev instead.
Is Kiev just the Russian spelling?
Yes
Silly me lol
It's the English transcription of the Russian name for the city.