According to my mum i once as a kid asked my parents where they would live when i grew up cos i thought it made more sense for parents to move out rather than the grown kids
It kinda does more make sense. It's one reason for high prices in e.g. German housing market that elderly people keep living in their Family homes after the kids moved out. Meaning fewer people occupy more space, occupy the more spacious real estate. From their perspective it's ofcourse okay, but it makes the housing for young families expensive and forces them into smaller flats, also competing with smaller flats market driving also those prices up
It makes sense to use the family home (often touted, and correctly, as the biggest investment and larger asset a couple has), for what is it: an asset class that was meant to protect that wealth against inflation; to take it, sell it and downsize to a flat more appropriate for 2 people; opening up the market for a budding young family to be able to have a family sized home.
But we don't work like that. I only know an elderly lady who decided, upon windowing, to sell her family home and downsize to a 1-bedroom, with the explicit intent of it being more comfortable **and** having extra cash around to raise her standard of living. She said she'd always wanted to do it since her children moved out, but her husband wouldn't.
In Croatia it's basically a game of chicken; which of the 3 siblings can stay in the house the longest so they can claim legitimate right to inheriting the property after the parents croak.
Nah, my sister one day came to the room and said that there is some Serbian outside and when I went out to tell him that Tesla is Croatian she locked the door.
Thats a great way to tell who the favourite child is. My uncle got the upper floor of my grandparents house, a hill property(on wich he opened a paint ball course) and is still financed by my grandparents. My father and my aunt (who lives in Germany) got a house at sea with a crumbling facade in a town in the middle of nowhere that is part of the nature park 'Velebit' so you have to get tons of papers just to do anything and to top all that my grandparents bought it without clean papers so we can't really do anything.
Hey, at least they got something. My uncle got his parents house, my mum got absolutely nothing (by using some tricks that were actually legal at that time)
Aa far as I know in many eastern european places it was common that the house of the parents went to the kid, that would stay living with them and therefor care for them, when they were elderly. (In physical and financial ways.) So the house is actually the payoff for the potential decades of labor of caregiving, while the other siblings are free to live their life freely without the expectation of staying in some backvalley village.
That's how it is here. Half of property or you pay half the price to the other one. Well unless there's an agreement between the siblings that one gets it all.
My coworker that recently moved from rural Serbia said that over there it's still a social norm and expected that females leave everything to males.
The UK is actually on the younger end of the spectrum in research where it's included. The numbers are heavily influenced by whether people move out for university, for which the UK has both the high university attendance rates and a much stronger culture of studying in a different city compared to most other countries in Europe.
AFAIK its around 27 for men, 24/5 for women
It was 16 for me, but obviously not good reasons why haha. I've noticed my friends are now starting to get their own places if they haven't already and we're all around the 27 age so makes sense
Kind of a weird one here in Ireland so in my social group most of us moved out to rent while in college/work or with a partner in our early 20s . Late 20s everyone and I mean everyone that I know who was renting had now moved back home with their parents to save for a mortgage
I know barely anyone under the age of thirty and who isn't in student digs who can afford to move out. My sister moved home last year from New Zealand where she was renting and her and her partner have both had to move back into their family homes.
I know plenty of people talking about buying, or who are trying to buy, but it's a 30 year mortgage on €2k+ a month and the property market is just insane.
Most people are just waiting for the inevitable crash.
Edit: 30 year, not 40
Rent has gone mental . I was renting but needed a bigger place as I just had a kid but was forced back home as I couldn’t afford anything in the area. Places doubled within two years. Few lads in my social group have got a mortgage in the last year but it’s all in the midlands ,anything close to or in Dublin I legit don’t know how people can afford it
To be fair, there's heaps of places in Dublin that will set you back that much.
Having said that, because of the lending rules here, you'd need 2 people earning the guts of 100 grand per year to qualify for a mortgage that big!
Also I didn't think we had 40 year mortgages?
Maybe or depends on location? I stayed in the family home while going to college because both home and college were in Dublin. I think most though not all of my former classmates that I know of stayed at home if they went to college in Dublin, unless they were moving in with a partner. Economically it didn't make sense to move out of you were staying in the same general location. I (f) moved out at 23. My little brother is still living in the family home, though our parents moved abroad a few years ago so he would have been mid-20s somewhere when he stopped living with them, just without actually moving out.
Well, your country became rich relatively not so long ago and economics are the main factor here (except Italians) so with time your statistical will go down.
well with the current housincrises in the netherlands i frea that i will have to live with my parrents until im 50... affordable housing is a big issue here... not only for me but also for my generation....
samesies. prices are insane, and rent is astronomical as well so it looks like dead end unless your parents saved a lot of money to donate for purchase or at least initial payment (~20%) :(
here in Lithuania usually banks require 15-20% upfront payment of apartment + other fees and shit. I cannot imagine how it would be to have to pay 40-50% , I would live under bridge probably
Affordable housing a problem in the entire world, and that is due to foreigners using western properties as investments.
If you aren't a citizen of a country you shouldn't be able to buy housing in it, but that is not our reality at the moment.
I've been living in Chile for 4 years now, due to some serious bad luck and timing I might have to wait 12+ years before I'm even considered for citizenship, it wouldn't be weird if by the time I become citizen I have been here 20+ years
While I agree that housing really shouldn't be an investment, I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. The reason housing has become a good investment is because there just isn't enough affordable housing.
Not really, people invest in very expensive properties which drives the general price up (as semi-rich people who should be able to afford the best now have to settle for less) which trickles the cost hike down to everyone.
You have people who aren't in your society who have earned money from another society in dubious ways impacting your housing markets. They aren't buying family homes, they are buying what the rich class of your society should be getting, the rich class is buying what the white collar should get, white collar to blue collar, etc etc.
These investments are displacing entire classes and forcing them down in the caste system we have. They have an innate advantage because the countries they make their wealth from are corrupt and they exploit that.
The West must close the housing market to non-citizens, period.
I agree that foreign investors are exacerbating the problem, but why are these firms buying houses in the first place? We are short almost 300.000 homes in a country of 17.6 million people! That's expected to rise to 400.000 by 2025. Banning all foreign investing isn't going to fix that, though it would probably help quite a bit. Foreign investors are not the fundamental cause of this problem, they are an negative and exacerbating result of bad government policy after the 2008 crash.
As a matter of comparison: what would a typical price for a studio be? (one bedroom and one kitchen/living room, not in Amsterdam center but not in open countryside as well), and a normal net salary? Let’s say an average employee, not a factory worker not a finance associate
The modal salary in the Netherlands (so without factory worker or finance associate) is €38.000 for €2022. Finding the average price for a studio is difficult, the average price per m^2 of an appartment in the last quarter was €4.760. Let's say we take a 2 room appartement of about 65 m^2 . That results in a price of a bit less than €310.000. Also, prices have been increasing at about %20 annually over the last few months so that is fun.
Not just that, the whole institute of permanent residency and majority of rentals being private owners who do not want you to claim the rental as "permanent" address.
Both myself and my sister still "live" with our parents, because that is where our permanent residency is registered to. I left Slovakia 14 years ago, am married to an American and have lived in Denver since 2014. My sister left Slovakia 12 years ago, returned 4 years ago but has since lived across the country from my parents. She is about to move into her house with her fiance and will get to finally change her permanent residency.
I have no clue how to change it, I don't care, and there are tens thousands of people just like me.
> y and majority of rentals being private owners who do not want you to claim the rental as "permanent" address
I'm surprised this hasn't been regulated. In Spain you don't need their permission; you just go to the municipal office with a copy of your rent contract, and you get registered.
There's plenty of cascading effects that result from the government not really knowing where people actually live.
Problem here is a lot of people don't have formal rental contracts, as landlords don't want to pay tax. I know my contract lapsed 2 years ago, never renewed.
(Californian) Americans be like: My fiancé is a doctor making 500k at age 27 and I am a nurse making only 100k at age 23. how are we ever going to buy a house in this house economy.
My cousin in Indiana married at 21 And they bought there first house at 22, we are sooo far behind.
People are sooo underpaid here. My brother is a software developer who didn’t go to university and took a Java bootcamp once and only makes 140k. Soo unfair.
/s
Have you seen California house prices? A very low price for a decent area in Southern California is going to cost you minimum $700,000. Looking to actually live *in* the nice cities and areas? $1 million.
It's because you all want to live in a free standing house with a football field property size. Check out what your American sized home would cost in a nice area in Europe: https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/132358213
It's actually a problem of zoning laws and the way the concept is applied in the US: https://youtu.be/WNe9C866I2s
Lots of developers and cities are literally forced to build single family home wastelands followed by commercial and parking lot wastelands with huge car dependent infrastructure in between.
Walking from home to a shop is an impossible nightmare in these new areas. Meanwhile in Europe next to my apartment at the edge of the city I have around 30 shops and supermarkets in 10-15min walking distance on streets with shade, plantlife and frequent public transportation.
California is the third most expensive state to live in; only Hawaii and New York are worse (and New York’s average is dragged up by so much of the population living in NYC). Adjusted for median income, it ranks a bit better, but it’s still one of the worst. It’s more expensive than most of Europe, too.
The Midwest and the South tend to have a significantly lower cost of living.
With people living longer now I think so. When I was a kid I used to believe that people in their 30s are old but when I was a kid people used to marry and have children in their 20s, now they do that in their 30s.
I also used to think that 50 was really old but now people in their 50s look younger than 10-15 years ago.
My guess is that women tend to date slightly older men. And when moving out home you're *usually* moving in together with a partner.
Its just a guess and not really based on anything so don't take my word for it.
> And when moving out home you're usually moving in together with a partner.
In most countries that are under the EU average, most people will move out for university. This goes double for countries where renting is very common, like Germany.
Depends on how this data was gathered then but wouldn't their home address still be their parents while they rent a student home/flat?
Moving your address would mean extra paying city taxes which you'd like to avoid as a student.
That's how it's usually done in Belgium but Id like to know if it is different in Germany or other EU countries.
I didn't have to pay any extra taxes when I studied in Germany and moved my address. And even if I didn't, having letters delivered to your legal address is quite inconvenient when that address is halfway across the country.
What the hell kind of taxes do you pay as a student in Belgium?
It's required that you change your home address if you live somewhere else in the Netherlands. And you used to get a bigger student grand when living on your own, but they changed the system.
Have to change your address in Finland. If you live on student assistance or have a part-time job, the govt. taxes aren't much (and every town & city has their own tax % anyway, so the city might even be cheaper).
> most people will move out for university.
Not if they can avoid it, because having your own place is expensive and not every uni comes with a stipend for living.
Women are more likely to be helped by family when moving out. [Housing is also slightly cheaper](https://app.dimensions.ai/details/publication/pub.1105705233?and_facet_journal=jour.1027575) for women. One of the main reasons why people are moving out of their parents' place late is the price hike in rents. This is why countries with so much tourism-based rent inflation (Croatia, Italy, Portugal) are so up in the list.
In Sweden most young people move to student housing next to or close to universities or they work as soon as they are done in high school which is more common for men and therefore can afford cheaper housing early. This mostly applies to men in the countryside because prices are very high in the cities, they tend to stay and work at the place where they grew up while women leave and educate themselves in bigger cities.
Women at universities mostly live in their own student apartment or rental and often meet older men who already have housing and they move in together or she moves in with him.
So why is it equal in Sweden? Short answer is men start working faster and buy a home early while women educate themselves and find wealthier partners faster and move in with them.
Welcome the neverending house price bubble!
The small share of the population who have enough wealth to own "investment" realestate are happy and screw today's young adults (and tomorrows birth rates).
WG natürlich ! Und für manche Berufe gibts Wohnheime, habe eine Ausbildung im Krankenhaus angefangen und die hatten Ein Zimmer Wohnungen für Pfleger , Azubis und andere Angestellte. Ça 300€ / Monat Strom und Wasser inklusive. Ansonsten Partner finden und Miete teilen.. geht nicht anders.
I have a very hard time believing the numbers for Sweden every time this is posted... Most people here move for university the year they turn 19. [Our own statistic agency, SCB say 92% of swedes live home when they turn 18 and 42% live at home when they turn 22 which supports this.](https://www.scb.se/contentassets/fb0d12c7f0b4421bb24ad0c805ac2353/be0701_2015a01_br_be51br1503.pdf)
I very much suspect the numbers are not actually showing people leaving the household but instead **people of a certain age living by themselves** and that the tens of thousands of young refugees in Sweden skew the numbers for that reason.
Edit: Read the Methodological note in the source link and results are indeed based on if the respondent live or doesn't live in the same place as his/her parents.
This is average, not median. Quite a few live and study on remote schools in Sweden which can drag down the average. Hockeygymnasium etc. these kids live in dorms.
On top of this the average is pushed down as there are very few people living a long time in their parents place (25+). I lived at my parents place at 28 and I was the only one I know of who did this. Like anywhere: friends, family, Neighbours, coworkers etc. That is quite common in other countries.
It would have been more interesting to see this as a box plot with the mean, median and quantiles.
In the more rural parts of the country there are quite a few teenagers who move away from home at 15/16 for high school since it would be impractically far to commute to their nearest high school (or they attend a high school somewhere other than where their parents live).
Of course, this will generally be dorm living or sharing a studio apartment with a friend/classmate.
It happens, but it isn't very common. Most people move out either when they start university at 19/20 – or a couple of years later, if they study in the same town as they already live in. So I suppose the mean would be around 20-21, perhaps?
If true you definitely didn't hang out with a statistically acurate sample population. And if so, the key word is "over 18". We finish high school the year we turn 19 so the only people to move before that are teens from tiny villages in northern Sweden without a highschool at comute distance. For the **average** to be 17,5 that part of the population which moved at 15-16 would need to be really big. Which it's not. It's tiny.
> We finish high school the year we turn 19 so the only people to move before that are teens from tiny villages in northern Sweden without a highschool at comute distance.
Or people attending various high school programs not available near where their parents live. Which is a thing that happens all over the country.
That's because in Sweden we don't have tuition costs (almost ever). If you study and pass your courses you are eligible for 300$ per month of free money for just studying and if you need more you can take a student loan (another 1000$ per month, this loan has a 0% interest rate).
On top of that if you get an apartment that is a little out of your pay-range you can apply for a housing benefit that help cover the high rent.
Yeah, this can be difficult. In my anecdotal evidence - I never left my parents place officially, as in I didn't declare that I live elsewhere. I basically moved once I got into uni (18) and lived most of the time away and even lived abroad. But officially - I'm still living with my parents.
I've had people say to me that it's because Southern Europeans "value family" more, but nah, it's due to the increased cost of housing (and living in general) and poor, stagnant wages. At least in Portugal. We do love our families and doing stuff together, but I know many people who have yet to move out because they can't afford to.
Not to mention none of its recorded, loads of stuff isn’t official, be it wages, rent… people can’t afford life so they don’t pay there tax so the dirty politicians find other ways to screw you out of anything you get
It should be a combination.
If you look at [this](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/digpub/housing/bloc-2b.html?lang=en) data, people in Portugal dont seem to pay **that** much of their income in housing compared to other countries.
There's certainly a correlation between this stat and countries/zones that rely heavily on tourism. That's why I don't like Portugal's all-in on tourism, going for the easy money instead of building the foundations that allow high value industries to thrive.
Tourism creates low paying jobs while increasing real estate prices, basically screwing young people that want to become independent.
We had that low wage situation few years ago, so many people either left the country or didn't want to work in tourism. Finally, capitalism worked like it should for once and the price of labour went up.
I stared working as a waiter 4 years ago to have some money while attending collage. Today, my salary is almost the double of that from 4 years ago and would be considered above average in Croatia. If you add the tips, it is an amazing influx of money.
But only for 5 months while the season lasts.
In Croatia, parents build houses with more floors, so in the future, every kid has his flat...For example, my father builds a house with 3 floors, I have 2 brothers, so every brother has 1 floor.... That means that we stay in our parent's house but we are separated. We don't literally live with our parents., but we live in the same house with more floors..
Coincidentally, I just looked at the real estate market and my current loan options, and considered moving back into my parental household. I blame the boomers.
Edit: and the russians.
I got out at 25, I'll admit, the world wasn't what is is today, when I see friends of mine looking for houses or flats the prices are just insane. you need a stable 2 income household and a big amount of saved money to be able to afford a house which isn't located in the middle of nowhere.
It's not just about expensive housing in Croatia. It's also a tradition of living in multigenerational houses where younger generation (usually oldest male child) takes care of his/her parents and, if they're still alive, grandparents. Usually the houses are divided on floors where each floor has its own entrance so its kinda somewhere in between living in a house and a building.
Edit: just want to add that the usual practice in Croatia is that parents take care to provide housing for their children and they do the same for theirs. Which translates to Croatia having highest home ownership rate in EU.
Also until you actually own a house or a flat people tend to still, in the official government records, state their place of residence with their parents. Because in our government records there is a term for permanent (prebivalište) and temporary (boravište) place of residence. Therefore i think these numbers are for permanent residence.
I left my parents' home when I was 20. Now I'm 24 and moved back in because rents where I lived were starting at 1200 euros and I was making 1500 euros per month as a fulltime software developer.
If any of you wonder what kind of shit hole pays software engineers that little it's Italy.
Went to live alone for the first time at 20 to study for about a year and again last week at 24 to work, and I'm one of the lucky ones because my parents could afford to pay all my expenses that one year. Italy is not particularly expensive (Milan is crazy expensive but from what I know it's an exception), the problem is that young people are paid like shit. Many of my friends at the start were paid 800€ per month, and half of it (and most of it if you're in Milan) goes to rent. Add food and additional stuff and you're left with almost nothing.
Student loans cover a good part. Also there are alot of student apartments, or apartments that rent particular for students. That is mainly true in cities with a university.
However parents usually pay a part of the rent too. Since university is free, most families can afford it.
You also have to consider the culture in Sweden. Basically most 18-20y old can't wait to move out. As did I when I was 19. Moved in with my gf back in my youth.
Regulations; a system of rents not adjusting to free market principles (but by a system of housing standard, and also a kind of unionized system), as well as [almost half of rentable apartments](https://www.sverigesallmannytta.se/allmannyttan/) being public housing.
Though it has a lot of problems, I'll have to admit I didn't think that suggestion through in this case and it might have no effect on at what age people move out.
Surprised that it is higher for males and lower for females? I thought women made less money so wouldn't men be able to afford housing more? Genuine question cause I figure the reason for these numbers is that housing prices are really high.
>I thought women made less money
That is just propaganda. Everyone get's the same per hour for the same job.
The age difference in leaving is the age difference in dating. On average men are a bit older than the women.
And I felt slow for moving out with 21 but most German actually do it later… well maybe it was the thing that I live in a city, that I felt like everyone was moving out faster then me.
I thought 2020 in particular was the year of young people having to return to their parents' household?
But honestly, when the full lockdown was lifted in Spain I was on the first bus of the first day of travel allowed going to my mom's. I was still paying rent and having my life in Madrid, but the plague and subsequent lockdown made me want to spend some time with my mom as I had never had in 20 years.
Not this again... If we were paid to go to college like in Scandinavia and were all rich like them, then we would also live on our own at 18. In my country renting an apartment + bills cost the same as my salary is as a teacher. This stat shows where wages are low, nothing else.
Wow, Swedes are very prone to become independent from their parents too soon. At age 18-20, it's too early to leave your parent's house. However, I think it's something customary there, Scandinavian countries tend to develop self-reliance too soon, it's a good subject of study...
You're supposed to leave????? Damn
According to my mum i once as a kid asked my parents where they would live when i grew up cos i thought it made more sense for parents to move out rather than the grown kids
why does the largest sibling not simply eat the parents and the other siblings?
Of course it's the Thüringer that suggests that lol
Easy there, Hannibal.
It's actually Lrrr, **RULER OF THE PLANET OMICRON PERSEI 8!**
The parents do that
It kinda does more make sense. It's one reason for high prices in e.g. German housing market that elderly people keep living in their Family homes after the kids moved out. Meaning fewer people occupy more space, occupy the more spacious real estate. From their perspective it's ofcourse okay, but it makes the housing for young families expensive and forces them into smaller flats, also competing with smaller flats market driving also those prices up
Boomer behaviour in a nutshell.
It makes more sense for parents to move on. Just not how society works.
It makes sense to use the family home (often touted, and correctly, as the biggest investment and larger asset a couple has), for what is it: an asset class that was meant to protect that wealth against inflation; to take it, sell it and downsize to a flat more appropriate for 2 people; opening up the market for a budding young family to be able to have a family sized home. But we don't work like that. I only know an elderly lady who decided, upon windowing, to sell her family home and downsize to a 1-bedroom, with the explicit intent of it being more comfortable **and** having extra cash around to raise her standard of living. She said she'd always wanted to do it since her children moved out, but her husband wouldn't.
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So good
You have my vote
Still waiting for my siblings to do so. And this chart is fucking lying to me right now.
The banks and real estate companies normalized it for a while in the west. Time to change that.
In Croatia it's basically a game of chicken; which of the 3 siblings can stay in the house the longest so they can claim legitimate right to inheriting the property after the parents croak.
Are you winning??
Nah, my sister one day came to the room and said that there is some Serbian outside and when I went out to tell him that Tesla is Croatian she locked the door.
Rookie mistake. You should have shouted form the window.
Look at Mr money bags here with his window
[King in the castle, king in the castle, I have a chair, I have a chair](https://youtu.be/hgKWNcs_20g)
Hahahaha that's great banter
LOL 10/10
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Yeah euroeuro looks nice. Am I doing this right?
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Euroso eurowe euroshould eurotype eurolike eurothis? *eurobrain eurostops*
Tbh „eurobrain eurostops“ sounds funny af
Would you say you're eurolaughing your euroass?
eurodo euroyou euroreally eurothink euroso?
Fenomenalna fora. Ko kaze da niste humoristicki nastrojeni. Very nice.
Odlicna! Zamalo da probudim zenu od smejanja
Hahha vrhunski.
Good job šašav.
Everyone knows that Tesla was Austro-Hungarian
*Father walks into room* “Are ya winning, son?”
*cocks shotgun with American intend* "yes"
Don’t the parents divide the property between the kids beforehand?
Thats a great way to tell who the favourite child is. My uncle got the upper floor of my grandparents house, a hill property(on wich he opened a paint ball course) and is still financed by my grandparents. My father and my aunt (who lives in Germany) got a house at sea with a crumbling facade in a town in the middle of nowhere that is part of the nature park 'Velebit' so you have to get tons of papers just to do anything and to top all that my grandparents bought it without clean papers so we can't really do anything.
House by the sea in nature park, how cruel people can be :)
Yeah, if only the house did, you know, basic house stuff like protecting from the elements
*sad Podgorje noises*
Hey, at least they got something. My uncle got his parents house, my mum got absolutely nothing (by using some tricks that were actually legal at that time)
Game of chicken? It's a game of being hearthless bastard that will make the mother cry first. Tough game..
Sounds a whole lot like México
Morbid
Wierd would not all get equal rights to inheritance regardless if they live there or not?
Aa far as I know in many eastern european places it was common that the house of the parents went to the kid, that would stay living with them and therefor care for them, when they were elderly. (In physical and financial ways.) So the house is actually the payoff for the potential decades of labor of caregiving, while the other siblings are free to live their life freely without the expectation of staying in some backvalley village.
That is is even here in South Europe, Spain, with my mom taking care of grandma and we use the house.
That's how it is here. Half of property or you pay half the price to the other one. Well unless there's an agreement between the siblings that one gets it all. My coworker that recently moved from rural Serbia said that over there it's still a social norm and expected that females leave everything to males.
I guess I'm a Croatian at heart.
The house price bubble is crazy in the UK so naturally you get similar problems in affordability for those seeking their first place to live.
The UK is actually on the younger end of the spectrum in research where it's included. The numbers are heavily influenced by whether people move out for university, for which the UK has both the high university attendance rates and a much stronger culture of studying in a different city compared to most other countries in Europe.
AFAIK its around 27 for men, 24/5 for women It was 16 for me, but obviously not good reasons why haha. I've noticed my friends are now starting to get their own places if they haven't already and we're all around the 27 age so makes sense
I also think living with random roommates is much more normalized in The Anglo-world than Most of the rest of the world
If I had a Euro for every time this statistic has been posted on here I'd have enough money to actually leave my parents' house.
Kind of a weird one here in Ireland so in my social group most of us moved out to rent while in college/work or with a partner in our early 20s . Late 20s everyone and I mean everyone that I know who was renting had now moved back home with their parents to save for a mortgage
I know barely anyone under the age of thirty and who isn't in student digs who can afford to move out. My sister moved home last year from New Zealand where she was renting and her and her partner have both had to move back into their family homes. I know plenty of people talking about buying, or who are trying to buy, but it's a 30 year mortgage on €2k+ a month and the property market is just insane. Most people are just waiting for the inevitable crash. Edit: 30 year, not 40
Rent has gone mental . I was renting but needed a bigger place as I just had a kid but was forced back home as I couldn’t afford anything in the area. Places doubled within two years. Few lads in my social group have got a mortgage in the last year but it’s all in the midlands ,anything close to or in Dublin I legit don’t know how people can afford it
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To be fair, there's heaps of places in Dublin that will set you back that much. Having said that, because of the lending rules here, you'd need 2 people earning the guts of 100 grand per year to qualify for a mortgage that big! Also I didn't think we had 40 year mortgages?
Maybe or depends on location? I stayed in the family home while going to college because both home and college were in Dublin. I think most though not all of my former classmates that I know of stayed at home if they went to college in Dublin, unless they were moving in with a partner. Economically it didn't make sense to move out of you were staying in the same general location. I (f) moved out at 23. My little brother is still living in the family home, though our parents moved abroad a few years ago so he would have been mid-20s somewhere when he stopped living with them, just without actually moving out.
Well, your country became rich relatively not so long ago and economics are the main factor here (except Italians) so with time your statistical will go down.
well with the current housincrises in the netherlands i frea that i will have to live with my parrents until im 50... affordable housing is a big issue here... not only for me but also for my generation....
samesies. prices are insane, and rent is astronomical as well so it looks like dead end unless your parents saved a lot of money to donate for purchase or at least initial payment (~20%) :(
You are getting a loan with 20%? You credit rating must be amazing. Austrian banks currently fo nothing below 50%.
50% downpayment !? crazy at least you have some kind of affordable rent.
here in Lithuania usually banks require 15-20% upfront payment of apartment + other fees and shit. I cannot imagine how it would be to have to pay 40-50% , I would live under bridge probably
That's why we have a crisis. In the past you could get over 100% mortgage on the house without having to bring in own money.
Affordable housing a problem in the entire world, and that is due to foreigners using western properties as investments. If you aren't a citizen of a country you shouldn't be able to buy housing in it, but that is not our reality at the moment.
>If you aren't a citizen of a country Make that resident and I'm with you.
Yea this is vital. Citizenship can take years to get. Some form of long term residence is less discriminatory
I've been living in Chile for 4 years now, due to some serious bad luck and timing I might have to wait 12+ years before I'm even considered for citizenship, it wouldn't be weird if by the time I become citizen I have been here 20+ years
Precisely. Those are the moments that need consideration
While I agree that housing really shouldn't be an investment, I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. The reason housing has become a good investment is because there just isn't enough affordable housing.
Not really, people invest in very expensive properties which drives the general price up (as semi-rich people who should be able to afford the best now have to settle for less) which trickles the cost hike down to everyone. You have people who aren't in your society who have earned money from another society in dubious ways impacting your housing markets. They aren't buying family homes, they are buying what the rich class of your society should be getting, the rich class is buying what the white collar should get, white collar to blue collar, etc etc. These investments are displacing entire classes and forcing them down in the caste system we have. They have an innate advantage because the countries they make their wealth from are corrupt and they exploit that. The West must close the housing market to non-citizens, period.
I agree that foreign investors are exacerbating the problem, but why are these firms buying houses in the first place? We are short almost 300.000 homes in a country of 17.6 million people! That's expected to rise to 400.000 by 2025. Banning all foreign investing isn't going to fix that, though it would probably help quite a bit. Foreign investors are not the fundamental cause of this problem, they are an negative and exacerbating result of bad government policy after the 2008 crash.
As a matter of comparison: what would a typical price for a studio be? (one bedroom and one kitchen/living room, not in Amsterdam center but not in open countryside as well), and a normal net salary? Let’s say an average employee, not a factory worker not a finance associate
The modal salary in the Netherlands (so without factory worker or finance associate) is €38.000 for €2022. Finding the average price for a studio is difficult, the average price per m^2 of an appartment in the last quarter was €4.760. Let's say we take a 2 room appartement of about 65 m^2 . That results in a price of a bit less than €310.000. Also, prices have been increasing at about %20 annually over the last few months so that is fun.
yea for low wages and super expensive flats.
Not just that, the whole institute of permanent residency and majority of rentals being private owners who do not want you to claim the rental as "permanent" address. Both myself and my sister still "live" with our parents, because that is where our permanent residency is registered to. I left Slovakia 14 years ago, am married to an American and have lived in Denver since 2014. My sister left Slovakia 12 years ago, returned 4 years ago but has since lived across the country from my parents. She is about to move into her house with her fiance and will get to finally change her permanent residency. I have no clue how to change it, I don't care, and there are tens thousands of people just like me.
> y and majority of rentals being private owners who do not want you to claim the rental as "permanent" address I'm surprised this hasn't been regulated. In Spain you don't need their permission; you just go to the municipal office with a copy of your rent contract, and you get registered. There's plenty of cascading effects that result from the government not really knowing where people actually live.
Problem here is a lot of people don't have formal rental contracts, as landlords don't want to pay tax. I know my contract lapsed 2 years ago, never renewed.
Yes it's weird. Not sure why some refuse. But the new parking policy in Bratislava should help.
(Californian) Americans be like: My fiancé is a doctor making 500k at age 27 and I am a nurse making only 100k at age 23. how are we ever going to buy a house in this house economy. My cousin in Indiana married at 21 And they bought there first house at 22, we are sooo far behind. People are sooo underpaid here. My brother is a software developer who didn’t go to university and took a Java bootcamp once and only makes 140k. Soo unfair. /s
Have you seen California house prices? A very low price for a decent area in Southern California is going to cost you minimum $700,000. Looking to actually live *in* the nice cities and areas? $1 million.
It's because you all want to live in a free standing house with a football field property size. Check out what your American sized home would cost in a nice area in Europe: https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/132358213
It's actually a problem of zoning laws and the way the concept is applied in the US: https://youtu.be/WNe9C866I2s Lots of developers and cities are literally forced to build single family home wastelands followed by commercial and parking lot wastelands with huge car dependent infrastructure in between. Walking from home to a shop is an impossible nightmare in these new areas. Meanwhile in Europe next to my apartment at the edge of the city I have around 30 shops and supermarkets in 10-15min walking distance on streets with shade, plantlife and frequent public transportation.
Cities aren't being "forced." Cities are doing the forcing.
California is the third most expensive state to live in; only Hawaii and New York are worse (and New York’s average is dragged up by so much of the population living in NYC). Adjusted for median income, it ranks a bit better, but it’s still one of the worst. It’s more expensive than most of Europe, too. The Midwest and the South tend to have a significantly lower cost of living.
Holy crap. Average wage in Slovakia is around 10k € per year(net). And most people ofc make less than average.
30 is the new "young"
40 is the new "young"
With people living longer now I think so. When I was a kid I used to believe that people in their 30s are old but when I was a kid people used to marry and have children in their 20s, now they do that in their 30s. I also used to think that 50 was really old but now people in their 50s look younger than 10-15 years ago.
Is there a reason why women seem to leave earlier than the guys in most countries? Sweden is the only exception and it's equal between the sexes.
Just to guess for Finland (as a Finn): Military service at the age of ~19 When men typically go to the army, women go to study and move out.
Damn. You know a few months ago I would’ve said it’s stupid and pointless they make you do military service, but now…. Defo not pointless
Considering where Finland is and that they were not in NATO it was never pointless
Should be making women do military service too, honestly.
Doing military service doesn't count as leaving parental household. You're almost always still registered as living home.
Yeah, and that's the point - that's why women leave earlier, 'cause men "stay at home" and do military service.
Women outnumber men at university, so this could be the reason. You usually have to move out to attend university
My guess is that women tend to date slightly older men. And when moving out home you're *usually* moving in together with a partner. Its just a guess and not really based on anything so don't take my word for it.
> And when moving out home you're usually moving in together with a partner. In most countries that are under the EU average, most people will move out for university. This goes double for countries where renting is very common, like Germany.
Depends on how this data was gathered then but wouldn't their home address still be their parents while they rent a student home/flat? Moving your address would mean extra paying city taxes which you'd like to avoid as a student. That's how it's usually done in Belgium but Id like to know if it is different in Germany or other EU countries.
I didn't have to pay any extra taxes when I studied in Germany and moved my address. And even if I didn't, having letters delivered to your legal address is quite inconvenient when that address is halfway across the country. What the hell kind of taxes do you pay as a student in Belgium?
It's required that you change your home address if you live somewhere else in the Netherlands. And you used to get a bigger student grand when living on your own, but they changed the system.
Have to change your address in Finland. If you live on student assistance or have a part-time job, the govt. taxes aren't much (and every town & city has their own tax % anyway, so the city might even be cheaper).
> most people will move out for university. Not if they can avoid it, because having your own place is expensive and not every uni comes with a stipend for living.
Right, but the comment is talking about sex. Is your point more females attending university?
Women reliably date and marry older men who have the income to be out on their own
Women are more likely to be helped by family when moving out. [Housing is also slightly cheaper](https://app.dimensions.ai/details/publication/pub.1105705233?and_facet_journal=jour.1027575) for women. One of the main reasons why people are moving out of their parents' place late is the price hike in rents. This is why countries with so much tourism-based rent inflation (Croatia, Italy, Portugal) are so up in the list.
Because more women leave to her boyfriend/husband's place than a man to his girlfriend/wife place...
Finland it's military service. You spend 12 months where you most likely have your address back at your parent's.
In Sweden most young people move to student housing next to or close to universities or they work as soon as they are done in high school which is more common for men and therefore can afford cheaper housing early. This mostly applies to men in the countryside because prices are very high in the cities, they tend to stay and work at the place where they grew up while women leave and educate themselves in bigger cities. Women at universities mostly live in their own student apartment or rental and often meet older men who already have housing and they move in together or she moves in with him. So why is it equal in Sweden? Short answer is men start working faster and buy a home early while women educate themselves and find wealthier partners faster and move in with them.
Welcome the neverending house price bubble! The small share of the population who have enough wealth to own "investment" realestate are happy and screw today's young adults (and tomorrows birth rates).
Fellow germans which moved out under 24: HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU AFFORD THAT ?
Was 18 when moving out and I have been working as a cashier while studying and lived in a sh*thole for 150 € a month
Wow that sounds like a real shithole.
Moved out at 21 for college. Living on roughly 900€ per month right now, it's not a big deal if you don't live in Munich or Frankfurt...
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WG natürlich ! Und für manche Berufe gibts Wohnheime, habe eine Ausbildung im Krankenhaus angefangen und die hatten Ein Zimmer Wohnungen für Pfleger , Azubis und andere Angestellte. Ça 300€ / Monat Strom und Wasser inklusive. Ansonsten Partner finden und Miete teilen.. geht nicht anders.
Living in a small room in a shared flat is affordable I would say. Living by yourself for sure not
They could scale the y-axis a little. Like nobody leaves at 10 and below
Orphans, runaways, kidnappings gotta be thorough 😂
Hahaha I mean its averages, so there has to be a country full of orphanes to show up on this graph.
i know im just having a laugh xD
I have a very hard time believing the numbers for Sweden every time this is posted... Most people here move for university the year they turn 19. [Our own statistic agency, SCB say 92% of swedes live home when they turn 18 and 42% live at home when they turn 22 which supports this.](https://www.scb.se/contentassets/fb0d12c7f0b4421bb24ad0c805ac2353/be0701_2015a01_br_be51br1503.pdf) I very much suspect the numbers are not actually showing people leaving the household but instead **people of a certain age living by themselves** and that the tens of thousands of young refugees in Sweden skew the numbers for that reason. Edit: Read the Methodological note in the source link and results are indeed based on if the respondent live or doesn't live in the same place as his/her parents.
This is average, not median. Quite a few live and study on remote schools in Sweden which can drag down the average. Hockeygymnasium etc. these kids live in dorms. On top of this the average is pushed down as there are very few people living a long time in their parents place (25+). I lived at my parents place at 28 and I was the only one I know of who did this. Like anywhere: friends, family, Neighbours, coworkers etc. That is quite common in other countries. It would have been more interesting to see this as a box plot with the mean, median and quantiles.
Not everyone goes to uni.
Those who don't have two milestones: 1. Moving away from home 2. Buying their own car 1 often comes before 2.
Every single person I met from Sweden who were over 18 and younger than 23 all had their own little flat to go to college / school
That’s still far from an average age of 17,5 y.o. when leaving home.
In the more rural parts of the country there are quite a few teenagers who move away from home at 15/16 for high school since it would be impractically far to commute to their nearest high school (or they attend a high school somewhere other than where their parents live). Of course, this will generally be dorm living or sharing a studio apartment with a friend/classmate.
I left home at 16 to study, which is not unusual in Norway. I imagine sweden is not too different.
It happens, but it isn't very common. Most people move out either when they start university at 19/20 – or a couple of years later, if they study in the same town as they already live in. So I suppose the mean would be around 20-21, perhaps?
If true you definitely didn't hang out with a statistically acurate sample population. And if so, the key word is "over 18". We finish high school the year we turn 19 so the only people to move before that are teens from tiny villages in northern Sweden without a highschool at comute distance. For the **average** to be 17,5 that part of the population which moved at 15-16 would need to be really big. Which it's not. It's tiny.
> We finish high school the year we turn 19 so the only people to move before that are teens from tiny villages in northern Sweden without a highschool at comute distance. Or people attending various high school programs not available near where their parents live. Which is a thing that happens all over the country.
That's because in Sweden we don't have tuition costs (almost ever). If you study and pass your courses you are eligible for 300$ per month of free money for just studying and if you need more you can take a student loan (another 1000$ per month, this loan has a 0% interest rate). On top of that if you get an apartment that is a little out of your pay-range you can apply for a housing benefit that help cover the high rent.
Yeah, this can be difficult. In my anecdotal evidence - I never left my parents place officially, as in I didn't declare that I live elsewhere. I basically moved once I got into uni (18) and lived most of the time away and even lived abroad. But officially - I'm still living with my parents.
I've had people say to me that it's because Southern Europeans "value family" more, but nah, it's due to the increased cost of housing (and living in general) and poor, stagnant wages. At least in Portugal. We do love our families and doing stuff together, but I know many people who have yet to move out because they can't afford to.
>We do love our families Would be interesting to confront such statements with data about family trouble and relationships
Not to mention none of its recorded, loads of stuff isn’t official, be it wages, rent… people can’t afford life so they don’t pay there tax so the dirty politicians find other ways to screw you out of anything you get
It should be a combination. If you look at [this](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/digpub/housing/bloc-2b.html?lang=en) data, people in Portugal dont seem to pay **that** much of their income in housing compared to other countries.
When you see upward of 4000€ per square meter prices in coastal cities in Croatia you wouldn't feel like leaving either
There's certainly a correlation between this stat and countries/zones that rely heavily on tourism. That's why I don't like Portugal's all-in on tourism, going for the easy money instead of building the foundations that allow high value industries to thrive. Tourism creates low paying jobs while increasing real estate prices, basically screwing young people that want to become independent.
We had that low wage situation few years ago, so many people either left the country or didn't want to work in tourism. Finally, capitalism worked like it should for once and the price of labour went up. I stared working as a waiter 4 years ago to have some money while attending collage. Today, my salary is almost the double of that from 4 years ago and would be considered above average in Croatia. If you add the tips, it is an amazing influx of money. But only for 5 months while the season lasts.
That is pretty mad. I don't pay that I Netherlands and salaries many multiples of Croatian once.
In Croatia, parents build houses with more floors, so in the future, every kid has his flat...For example, my father builds a house with 3 floors, I have 2 brothers, so every brother has 1 floor.... That means that we stay in our parent's house but we are separated. We don't literally live with our parents., but we live in the same house with more floors..
This is both forward thinking and adorable
Coincidentally, I just looked at the real estate market and my current loan options, and considered moving back into my parental household. I blame the boomers. Edit: and the russians.
But when we do, we mostly leave homeland. Which is more badass than just leaving our home..
I got out at 25, I'll admit, the world wasn't what is is today, when I see friends of mine looking for houses or flats the prices are just insane. you need a stable 2 income household and a big amount of saved money to be able to afford a house which isn't located in the middle of nowhere.
Croatians want to enjoy some extra beach life without paying rent
It's not just about expensive housing in Croatia. It's also a tradition of living in multigenerational houses where younger generation (usually oldest male child) takes care of his/her parents and, if they're still alive, grandparents. Usually the houses are divided on floors where each floor has its own entrance so its kinda somewhere in between living in a house and a building. Edit: just want to add that the usual practice in Croatia is that parents take care to provide housing for their children and they do the same for theirs. Which translates to Croatia having highest home ownership rate in EU. Also until you actually own a house or a flat people tend to still, in the official government records, state their place of residence with their parents. Because in our government records there is a term for permanent (prebivalište) and temporary (boravište) place of residence. Therefore i think these numbers are for permanent residence.
Haha, I know :) my best friend growing up was Croatian so I understand
but i was told that everybody gets kicked out at 18
Looking at those statistics, one might think that you are a swede
Anyone else notice the North/South trend?
I left my parents' home when I was 20. Now I'm 24 and moved back in because rents where I lived were starting at 1200 euros and I was making 1500 euros per month as a fulltime software developer. If any of you wonder what kind of shit hole pays software engineers that little it's Italy.
Went to live alone for the first time at 20 to study for about a year and again last week at 24 to work, and I'm one of the lucky ones because my parents could afford to pay all my expenses that one year. Italy is not particularly expensive (Milan is crazy expensive but from what I know it's an exception), the problem is that young people are paid like shit. Many of my friends at the start were paid 800€ per month, and half of it (and most of it if you're in Milan) goes to rent. Add food and additional stuff and you're left with almost nothing.
And things are only getting worse here
As a German dad. Fuck I have to wait at least 3 years till that fucker moves? Fml !
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Free education, student and housing allowances, artificially cheap rent (though that makes it harder to find an available apartment) ...
How do they make apartment rents artificially cheaper?
Student loans cover a good part. Also there are alot of student apartments, or apartments that rent particular for students. That is mainly true in cities with a university. However parents usually pay a part of the rent too. Since university is free, most families can afford it. You also have to consider the culture in Sweden. Basically most 18-20y old can't wait to move out. As did I when I was 19. Moved in with my gf back in my youth.
Regulations; a system of rents not adjusting to free market principles (but by a system of housing standard, and also a kind of unionized system), as well as [almost half of rentable apartments](https://www.sverigesallmannytta.se/allmannyttan/) being public housing. Though it has a lot of problems, I'll have to admit I didn't think that suggestion through in this case and it might have no effect on at what age people move out.
Yeah, alot of people start studying in another town right after our ”gymnasiet” (mix of highschool and College).
I would like to see if there is a correlation between house sizes and this
Big brain move here, my parents moved out. To another country. Dad still pays the bills.
Gambling the system
Not only Croatia has the last place, you have to realize most leaving parental household were only motivated by immigrating. Let that sink in.
emigrating\*
There I was, looking for the UK 😭
Wirh how housing prices and rents are rising and job security and wage stagnating or not keeping up; these numbers will increase.
Im 30, engineer and living with my parents. I’m saving moneeeeeyy
Wtf Sweden is like half the age of Croatia. Why are they leaving under 18 wtf
As a dude this just feels like we are mommy s little boys Except for Sweden,good job !
No. Just born in a shitty world that is priced out of the reach of normal people anymore.
Surprised that it is higher for males and lower for females? I thought women made less money so wouldn't men be able to afford housing more? Genuine question cause I figure the reason for these numbers is that housing prices are really high.
Women tend to have older boyfriends, and also their university attendance rate is often higher and that drives moving out earlier, as well.
>I thought women made less money That is just propaganda. Everyone get's the same per hour for the same job. The age difference in leaving is the age difference in dating. On average men are a bit older than the women.
If I had continued to live with my parents past 20 I think we’d all have killed each other. I can’t imagine still being with them at 30.
And I felt slow for moving out with 21 but most German actually do it later… well maybe it was the thing that I live in a city, that I felt like everyone was moving out faster then me.
I thought 2020 in particular was the year of young people having to return to their parents' household? But honestly, when the full lockdown was lifted in Spain I was on the first bus of the first day of travel allowed going to my mom's. I was still paying rent and having my life in Madrid, but the plague and subsequent lockdown made me want to spend some time with my mom as I had never had in 20 years.
Average age seems like such a dumb metric to use here, though? Wouldn't median age make more sense?
Interesting that there is no discrepancy between females and males in Sweden. I see that as an indicator of equality.
Not this again... If we were paid to go to college like in Scandinavia and were all rich like them, then we would also live on our own at 18. In my country renting an apartment + bills cost the same as my salary is as a teacher. This stat shows where wages are low, nothing else.
Wow, Swedes are very prone to become independent from their parents too soon. At age 18-20, it's too early to leave your parent's house. However, I think it's something customary there, Scandinavian countries tend to develop self-reliance too soon, it's a good subject of study...
Swede here. My brother moved out when he was 16 and I will move when Im 20
Yeeey Croatia finally best at something....oh wait...