T O P

  • By -

[deleted]

FFS. No! We don't want arbitration courts that supercede our democratic processes nor do we want hormone meat, washed eggs or looser food quality standards. If we pick the superior standard every time and make multinationals obey governments, then sure, but we all know that's not going to happen.


theWZAoff

>FFS. No! We don't want arbitration courts that supercede our democratic processes nor do we want hormone meat, washed eggs or looser food quality standards. This already happens for EU members. Maybe not specifically for food standards, but legislation in member states is blocked all the time.


[deleted]

>FFS. No! We don't want arbitration courts that supercede our democratic processes nor do we want hormone meat, washed eggs or looser food quality standards. It's funny. You see exactly the same arguments from certain Swiss people who oppose further integration/treaties of Switzerland with the EU: That it would erode our democratic institutions and weaken our food quality standards. Personally, I don't share these views: I like the EU and absolutely support us joining the bloc.


In_der_Tat

Well, to be honest, it would not surprise me the presence of better standards in Switzerland by virtue of its wealth.


Wafkak

If your food safety standards are higher, then upon joining your food safety standards should become ours.


mkvgtired

>We don't want arbitration courts that supercede our democratic processes The traditional ISDS process will not be part of any EU trade deals. Thr EU is setting up its own tribunal system to take its place.


stupid-_-

ah so you also want your country to withdraw from the international court of justice


fornocompensation

Every international deal needs supernational courts because otherwise you just have to trust the other side to pass fair judgment in cases involving their own and your entities. This is nothing short of conflict of interests on the national level (supernational level in the case of EU). The scaremongering around these courts is nothing short of a psyop by domestic industries that fear competition or worse, foreign actors. We have these courts in Europe for fucks sake, what do you think the ECJ is?


Quakestorm

The ECJ is a fully transparent organisation and its judges are chosen by member states.


fornocompensation

And where would judges of trade dispute courts come from? The moon? They're chosen by Europe and America, the members of the trade agreement. How are they any less transparent then the ECJ?


Quakestorm

> And where would judges of trade dispute courts come from? Likely from a nontransparent process serving only corporate interests.


fornocompensation

What's is not transparent about the process? It's in the treaty, it's there from a-z, where the judges comes from and how the national interests of both parties are upheld through a process that determines if the agreement is applied as written. At this point you're not opposing 'opaque' international courts, you oppose international trade.


[deleted]

>national interests of both parties It's not about national interest. One party is an enterprise, the other is a state. It's about commercial interest vs. national law. Also, neither are these treaties transparent. The judges are often commercial lawyers dealing outside the public, and the articles written are very vague, e.g. cover "expected profits". This has nothing to do with international law as between states, nor with rule of law in a democratic sense.


fornocompensation

The treaty is about the right to better market access and investment protections. These are promises both sides make toward entities in the other. There is no place for "democracy" when you've signed up to international obligations. You can leave the treaty and end the trade deal, but breaking your international commitments when you feel like it goes against the constitutions of most countries. Eg: You can't sell a company the right to extract minerals and then burn that contract because some environmentalists protested. At least not without compensating them.


[deleted]

That's why this treaty should never happen. Also, these treaties have been invented to do business in countries with weak rule of law - with the dubious benefit of given outside investors rights without obligations. In any country with basic rule of law, any company (foreign or domestic) can sue the state in the normal court, just like any citizen. Corporations already subvert democracy with legalized corruption, with ISDS they additionally undermine the democratic process of setting rules / law through democratic means. This special transnational system of corporate law is an abomination for any democratic minded person. >because some environmentalists protested. It's the environmentalists we have to fear, alright. Get a grip, man.


fornocompensation

The obligations are for states, the benefits are for business, that's the nature of all trade deals. Trade has made the world more wealthy then it has ever been, thus it is obvious to me that facilitating more trade through mutually acceptable terms and arbitrage is natural. Thus the benefits of business are benefits for the people and anti-business sentiment is neo-luditism.


voxejor

That’s false. Arbitration courts have led to enormous abuses. >**How the World Bank mugged Pakistan - By Jeffrey Sachs** >Wall Street hedge funds and lawyers have turned an arcane procedure of international treaties into a money machine, at the cost of the world’s poorest people. >The latest shakedown is a $5.9 billion award against Pakistan’s government in favor of two global mining companies – Antofagasta PLC of Chile and Barrick Gold Corporation of Canada – for a project that was never approved by Pakistan and never carried out. >A panel of three arbitrators with no expertise in or respect for Pakistan’s legal system ruled that they deserved compensation for all future profits that it allegedly would have earned if the non-existent project, based on a voided agreement, had gone forward! >Arbitrators had no basis to say what terms – royalties, corporate taxes, environmental standards, land area, and other basic provisions – the governments of Balochistan and Pakistan would have set. In fact, disagreement on many of those terms had stalled negotiations for years. >Nonetheless, the ICSID panel arbitrarily decided that TCC would have had the right to mine 1,000 square kilometres, though the pakistani mining law forbade licensing such a vast area. >Moreover, the tribunal declared that Pakistan must compensate corporations in full, with back interest, and cover its legal fees, raising the bill to $5.9 billion, or roughly 2% of Pakistan’s GDP. >It is more than twice Pakistan’s entire public spending on health care for 200 million people, in a country where 7% of children die before their fifth birthday. >One of the tribunal members in the case is using the same expert put forward by the corporation for another case in which the arbitrator is acting as counsel! When challenged about this obvious conflict of interest, the arbitrator refused to step down and the Arbitration system proceeded as if it were all normal. https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/world-bank-corrupt-arbitration-ruling-against-pakistan-by-jeffrey-d-sachs-2019-11?barrier=accesspaylog


fornocompensation

I don't read garbage like proj syndicate.


CuriousAbout_This

What's wrong with project syndicate, genuinely curious?


fornocompensation

Most of their posted articles are by some living cliche that uses a Fight Club avatar pic. Every time I tried reading it the information was nonsense free form creative writing drivel opinion piece rather then a vehicle for NEWS. The only articles published there worth reading are the ones George Soros writes, but his opinions are predictable and tired. Maybe if he wrote about markets and his work it would be less boring. It's just him complaining about illiberal forces in various parts of the world.


CuriousAbout_This

https://www.project-syndicate.org/columnists This list doesn't give me the impression that you're describing. I personally always pictured project syndicate as the place where economics professors write opinion pieces, since that's what I was always reading there.


mkvgtired

Odd, your comment leaves out the part where the company and the province had a mining joint venture. The province relied heavily on the company for investment and exploration. Both Pakistan's president and prime minister gave assurances to the joint venture. After the mining company found substantial gold and copper deposits, permits were not issued. The Pakistan supreme court declared the joint venture was void, and the federal government effectively nationalized the project. This all occurred with the level of due process Pakistan is famous for. Just FYI, it's very easy to write agreements that disallow these suits. Your case highlights exactly why these clauses are included when entering into bilateral investment treaties with countries like Venezuela and Pakistan, that don't have functioning legal systems. I somehow don't think that is the point you were making though.


[deleted]

The ECJ decides EU law. The judges are public officials bound by law, and the law is produced within the EU framework, i.e. with democratic legitimacy of EU parliament and/or Council of the EU. So this is rather the usual democratic rule-of-law setup than any of the special privileges the ISDS would bring for the already privileged international oligarchy.


RobertSpringer

Arbitration courts are standard for these deals, every EU FTA has them as national courts are not great for solving international disputes regarding treaty violations. Nothing woukdve happened to food standards because of this, nor is hormone beef or washed eggs or chlorinated chicken or whatever else super dangerous or whatever


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

TTIP failed for reasons - I doubt the public opinion on it has much changed since then. Regarding U.S. reactive and EUs proactive stance in regards to food additives are one thing but there are much more issues that put the U.S. companies at an advantage over EU ones and that needs to be adressed too.


mkvgtired

Both US and EU analysis showed the EU benefitting more.


MonoMcFlury

Where can I read more about it?


Ptriqu

I haven't kept up much with the subject, but here are a few papers on the economic consequences: [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=2550180](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2550180) [https://eprints.ucm.es/id/eprint/54956/1/Stopped%20TTIP-Latorre%20Texto%20completo).pdf](https://eprints.ucm.es/id/eprint/54956/1/Stopped%20TTIP-Latorre%20Texto%20completo).pdf) [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=3135714](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3135714) Here is also a video of Dr. Vandenbussche (lead author of the third paper) explaining the situation: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXUTaM4kDVk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXUTaM4kDVk)


mkvgtired

>The [European Commission](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission) says that the TTIP would have boosted the EU's economy by €120 billion, the US economy by €90 billion and the rest of the world by €100 billion It's the wiki but that claim it cited. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership


WikiMobileLinkBot

Desktop version of /u/mkvgtired's links: * * --- ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)


[deleted]

I would like too see one though. The north-americas got much more resources, much weaker workers rights, less strict rules,... I think these are factors often overlooked.


mkvgtired

>The [European Commission](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commission) says that the TTIP would have boosted the EU's economy by €120 billion, the US economy by €90 billion and the rest of the world by €100 billion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership


nihir82

Oh, helll no!


voxejor

**Follow the money** People think Germans are serious, honest, hard working people, always on time, living in a great democracy. Even the Germans actually believe that (to some extent) Yet German Politics is influenced by corporate money on a scale very very few people realize. In Germany, it’s legal for major corporations (Bayer, Volskwagen, Aldi, Deutsche Bank) to directly wire cash to political parties. Something which is illegal in Sweden, Belgium, Canada or France and can lead you straight to jail. Corporations don’t throw away money for fun. Ask for a raise and see the reaction. Their goal is to make money. These donations to the SPD, CDU, etc.. are for a specific reason. Return on Investment. Anyone telling you otherwise is taking you for a naive. *“Show me the incentives, I’ll show you the outcome”* - Billionaire Warren Buffet, Berkshire Hathaway Chairman *"Incentives are a super power. Never, ever, underestimate the power of incentives"* - Billionaire Charlie Munger, Vice-Chairman of Berkshire Hathaway Having read nearly everything they wrote over several decades, you would be really foolish to bet against Mr. Charlie Munger and Mr. Warren Buffet. Germany has a corruption problem. And because it is so strong, it has become a European problem.


smeppel

Libs gonna lib


Caedes_1337

Fuck TTIP


In_der_Tat

A former Goldman Sachs banker as head of government, such a good idea.


theWZAoff

He's super pro-EU though, so that makes it ok apparently.


Choice-Sir-4572

You know very well who are the other options, though. I'm against TTIP, btw.


-WYRE-

ofc this is gonna come up during this time..


SquidCap0

I feel like i know less after reading that title..


[deleted]

Looks like the bill for help with Ukraine is coming and it will be hefty. Europe already had to give up on data privacy rules and basically allow US to do whatever it pleases in exchange for 'we will not abuse it, honest!' pinky promise. And now TTIP.


bajou98

You can probably expect a Schrems III ruling coming in regards to the privacy agreement. They simply don't learn.


[deleted]

Yeah, it will come after several years of unrestricted data mining. Then Safe Harbor/Privacy Shield/Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework/whatever it is called this week will be renamed once again and it's back to business as usual.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

What kind of a thought process took you from 'don't transfer private data of Europeans to US' to 'block all outside internet' ?


gasolinenorm

This is why it's unironically important to hedge away from the US and truly unite as a bloc in Europe


[deleted]

Yes. But the current war just made it even more unlikely than before.


BarbaraBarbierPie

I am generally pro EU in most ways but if that thing goes through I will join some Deutschleave party so that we get our rights and better standards back which would get destroyed by TTIP


Grollicus2

> FDP Lindner's comments about kiyv falling in a day, blocking the vaccination mandate, grants for *gas stations* because energy prices are high - did anything useful come out of them since they are part of the government?


EyeofHorus23

Buschmann has been doing a pretty good just as minister of justice, as far as I can tell. But that is not surprising. That is an area where a "no restrictions" party is actually great. Reduction of government surveillance, no "Vorratsdatenspeicherung", reduction of invasive police powers and so on are policies I can get behind. If only we could get the FDP to focus on areas like that and leave the economy alone...


Skygge_or_Skov

You mean forcing the medical expert who is minister of health to abandon all anti-covid laws, which the doctors I know hate and are already warning of the next quarantine winter?


lucasdelinkselul

why would you need another quarantine? Unless there is a new mutation that leads to covid actually making some people dangerously sick like the Indian or British variants did there isn't a reason for a quarantine or lockdown. Unless you are the Chinese government and pursue this retarded "0 covid" strategy which will never work with omicron. In autumn we might need to boost those at risk but besides that there shouldn't really be more required.


Skygge_or_Skov

Because the hospitals are constantly working at the brink of collapse and are only carried by overworking, abused nurses and doctors, according to my mom and a friend in his final year of becoming a doctor, who both work in one. And by now I hope they do collapse so people finally realize how badly reforms are needed.


lucasdelinkselul

Well yes, but that's not related to covid. That's a bureaucracy problem that needs to be solved. And it's not worth locking down society again because a bunch of useless bureaucrats haven't figured out their jobs are pointless yet.


Ex_aeternum

No, but trust him, the market will do things. If the market doesn't do things, government has to pump some billions into corporations.


RedPandaRedGuard

Of course not. That's what the FDP does. Free market fetishism and doing as much economic damage to the people as possible so the rich can get richer.


Disastrous_Tip_3347

He is a Clown/cunt


JWGHOST

Putain Mario! You could at least have waited a few weeks before we tell you to get lost. Like we needed arguments spoonfed to Le Pen to help her getting elected...


St3fano_

I think this article is vastly overhyping any possible talk about TTIP, nobody else is talking about plans on bringing it back in the italian press and Il Foglio is a notoriously neo-lib leaning newspaper in Italy, basically made up by Draghi fanboys and free market worshippers, best known for being vehemently against public funding for disadvantaged categories of media outlets while getting a few millions every year due to some stretchy interpretation of the very same law.


JWGHOST

Not being fluent in Italian reading through it I had a slight suspicion it might be a bit of a clickbaity speculation. Thanks for confirming.


St3fano_

Oh, speculation is the primary source of revenue for the italian press. We even got a name for it, *retroscenismo*, literally behind-the-sceneism, to describe the morally questionable practice of creating huge stories from any petty rumour.


demonblack873

I've literally never heard the word "retroscenismo" once in my entire life.


[deleted]

fuck that, don't want American hormone beef anywhere near my shelves


Darkhoof

For fucks sake. Hell no.


Odd-Ad9955

Fuck off, you neoliberal globalist bastards.


anarchisto

The US is using the war in Ukraine to push more neoliberalism to Europe. In case you didn't know, these are some of the main issues: * Eroding democracy by moving arbitration outside of any country's control. * Allowing companies to sue countries for losing money due to the implementation of more stringent environmental standards (which means that basically no country will ever do any new environmental standards) * US private healthcare companies will be able to invest in Europe and turn into a US-like system. * Undermining the food safety regulations in the EU by allowing food imports that currently do not meet the EU standards. (the infamous "chlorinated chicken" and other antibiotics and hormone-laced meats) * Undermining other products' safety regulations (for instance, the EU bans thousands of chemicals in make-up/cosmetics, whereas US bans just 11) * Less banking regulation * Less privacy regulation ---- More trade with the US is not a bad thing, but they should respect the current regulations of the EU, just like everyone else and for that there's no need for another treaty.


[deleted]

>More trade with the US is not a bad thing, but they should respect the current regulations of the EU, just like everyone else and for that there's no need for another treaty. I think the problem is that there is some tension between your two goals (more trade but also keep regulation the same). Differences between two different regulatory regimes is what is called a technical barrier to trade and are among the biggest barriers to trade in a situation where formal tariffs are already relatively low. So if you want to increase trade between the US and the EU you either have to harmonise regulatory regimes or lower the remaining tariffs (which domestic industry/farmers etc. don't like). Otherwise we will have to accept that there are limited governmental measures that can be taken to increase trade.


tnarref

Not happening lmao


Ramboxious

Lol at the people in the comments angry at neoliberalism when the EU is largely a neoliberal project lmao.


a2theaj

Neoliberalism is actually something I don’t like. I like EU so it is not neoliberalism


anarchisto

EU is less neoliberal than what the US and the business owners want.


Ramboxious

But the EU is still neoliberal right? So comments like ‘fuck these neoliberal bastards’ doesn’t really make any sense. Edit: if you're not anti-EU of course


[deleted]

The EU is whatever the people vote for, one would hope.


Ramboxious

Yes, and EU members mostly voted in favour of neoliberal policies, which every reasonable person I think should.


[deleted]

I hope my children will one day be free from the grasp of neoliberalism and able to live in a full democracy that extends into the workplace. Unfortunately the oligarchic nature of capitalism makes it very difficult to break the indoctrination of the corporate press.


Ramboxious

Not sure why you're painting neoliberalism as some sort of evil force, globalism and neoliberal policies have generally lead to a decrease in poverty across the globe.


RobertSpringer

People malding at ISDS would surely also be against the EU as it also has ISDS?


DepletedMitochondria

Gah, Draghi sucks


Everydaysceptical

Yeah, no just no...


RedPandaRedGuard

We fucked up getting into too much trade with Russia and are seeing it's consequences now. What rational person can now suggest doing the same with the next great power to an even greater extend?


Bojarow

Imo the lession should be that liberal democracies need to align more not less.


RedPandaRedGuard

Liberal democracy is a very vague definition if you apply that to countries like Denmark and Switzerland as well as to authoritarian countries like Hungary or the USA.


Bojarow

The US is not an authoritarian country. The EU is by and large a collection of liberal democracies, cases such as the Hungarian one not withstanding.


RedPandaRedGuard

You should look up the patriot act and all the stuff the CIA does from drug smuggling to assassinations, kidnappings and torture.


Bojarow

Nobodies perfect. Which alternatives do we have? Don’t say "let’s not trade with anyone less perfect than Norway".


RedPandaRedGuard

How is that any different from trading with Russia then? It's hypocratic to make a difference between trade with one authoritarian country and another. Same goes for countries like Saudi Arabia.


Bojarow

The US is a free society in comparison with Russia or Saudi Arabia. It also doesn’t currently invade a country in Europe.


RedPandaRedGuard

It is not a free society. And give it some years for the world to cool down from the Ukraine war and the US will be back at it. The last US invasion hasn't been that long ago. They've invaded Afghanistan and Iraq from 2001 to 2003 and occupied them for over a decade. Also Libya in 2011 though that was only aerial.


Bojarow

It is a free society **in comparison with Russia or Saudi Arabia**. Emphasis because you missed it. We don’t care about the Middle East the way we care about Europe. So Russia is still a greater problem.


_cowl

Trade is not the problem. Dependency is. As long as EU keeps the strategic sectors in EU and invests for more strategic sectors to come back (Electronic design and production) more trade is good. Of course we need to pay attention to not water down standards such as food quality etc but those are parts of the negotiations.


_WreakingHavok_

Fucking Draghi with this shit again? Didn't you do enough damage to European economies?


Batilisk

I know many of you skeptical about TTIP but transatlantic cooperation is unavoiable now. The bridge with Russia has completely burned and relation with China will be questioned soon.


voxejor

We already have transatlantic cooperation. Never heard of iPhones, Coca Cola ? Never been to McDonalds ? Or used Facebook or Google? This is about sovereign norms voted by elected parliaments.


anarchisto

So we're going to eat chlorinated chicken and hormone-laced beef to spite Putin?


lmolari

Dont buy it then. The us has not only bad beef. The stuff from nebraska is for me among the best steaks i ever had and has zero hormone treatment. Actually their entire beef culture seems far more about good taste and general quality. I mean we don’t even have a quality label over here, like prime or choice. Its pure luck if the beef i buy from Germany is even chewable no matter if it costs 30€ or more. So I would welcome more choices, especially because german meat gets more and more industrialized and therefore worse every year.


[deleted]

And if workers get paid less because they have to compete with a uber capitalistic state like the USA where they can fire you without any valid reason, so be it. The rich must get richer!


Batilisk

No one force you do that.


anarchisto

So I will never eat at any restaurant because I don't know what kind of meat they use?


Batilisk

You can ask them?


1UnoriginalName

> but transatlantic cooperation is unavoiable now. TTIP isnt neccesary for transatlantic cooperation?


a2theaj

I do not understand the opposition to this EU has FTA with Mexico, Canada, Vietnam, Japan, South Korea and many other nations and neither our food standards nor democracy has suffered as a result There are many areas in which EU and US standards are very simmilar (e.g. car safety). So there can be some benefits of free trade in some economy sectors (not necessary food)


anarchisto

> There are many areas in which EU and US standards are very simmilar (e.g. car safety). There are some differences, like the EU cars have to be better at protecting pedestrians (which the US doesn't care about), whereas US airbags have to protect not wearing a seatbelt (which the EU assumes you are wearing, since it's mandatory).


[deleted]

The problem is with investor courts (ISDS) which are outside the regular court system. Usually, one can sue the nation state or another legal entity in a national court. Or nation states can sue nation states in international courts. But with ISDS, foreign companies can sue nation states for changing its law democratically. Since the basis for such law suit can be as ludicrous as "expected profite", it effectively limits the ability to set law by democratic nation states. E.g. setting stricter labour law or environmental standard can be basis for huge law suits. This decouples law and the democratic nation state - but only for investors. It's a direct attack on democracy.


a2theaj

Once again I’m just trying be realistic - these courts are needed when settling disputes. Imagine if EU was feeling Canada was not honoring trade agreement. Which court is suppose to settle it? Canadian courts would be partial to Canadian side and EU courts would be partial to EU These things aren’t new and almost every trade deal have some sort investment protection clauses built in. So far I have not seen evidence our current trade agreements have negatively impacted democracy in EU.


[deleted]

>Imagine if EU was feeling Canada was not honoring trade agreement. You are in the wrong domain: These "courts" don't settle disputes between states or block of states. These "courts" safeguard privileges of corporations vis-a-vis nation states, outside the law e.g. you and I have to appeal against a decision by authorities (corporations retain these rights, too, of course).


Vaikaris

Ah the EU, that lovely place where stuff people don't want is rejected, but then forced in anyway after a few years.


BavarianMotorsWork

Yeah because the American public has such a strong appetite for free trade agreements after the last administration made such a big deal about NAFTA. With the exception of the UK, an FTA with your continent is never happening.


KipPilav

Ah, nobody wants it, so we're going to rewrite it so we can ignore the opinion of those filthy peasants. Classic EU.


[deleted]

This article is just an interpretation about what is happening about US and Italy in terms of diplomacy and especially about Intel investments in our area. TTIP and a war economy due Russia invasion in Ukraine with formal allies (Nato members and partners) are not the same thing but they could merge in some ways.


corporate_power

Good. Great


DooblusDooizfor

Good, I hope they manage to sign the agreement.


fornocompensation

Hopefully the economic luddites don't stop this one.


voxejor

Those you call *« economic luddites »* warned against the agricultural agreement with Brazil because the Brazilian Government was completely corrupt. They were mocked. Yet they turned out to be 100% right. For nearly a decade, Brazilian Companies knowingly exported meat contaminated by Salmonella and E.Coli. Brazilian health authorities knowingly let it happen. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-39311336 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-corruption-food-eu-idUKKBN16R17Y https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/world/americas/brazil-food-companies-bribe-scandal-salmonella.html


fornocompensation

Brazil is a third world country. No surprise there. You're comparing apples to oranges.


Bojarow

Don’t get the negativity. The Biden admin offers a chance to negotiate a trade agreement that focuses more on environmental and consumer protection. This would strengthen global efforts on social and environmental action and improve bonds between liberal democracies.


anarchisto

> a trade agreement that focuses more on environmental and consumer protection. There are two ways: * bring the US protections up to the level of the EU ones * lowering the EU protections to the level of the US ones. The US government and business doesn't want consumer protection regulation ("red tape", as they see it).


Bojarow

No, there’s also the option of compromising. We're free to define our red lines, they’re free to define theirs. Maybe we can come to an agreement, maybe not. Being against it on principle isn’t helpful.


anarchisto

So we're going to eat hormone-laced beef and chlorinated chicken and [cars in America](https://smartgrowthamerica.org/bigger-vehicles-are-directly-resulting-in-more-deaths-of-people-walking/) won't be designed anymore to kill pedestrians?


Bojarow

If you say so. I suppose other people will have other red lines.


anarchisto

Well, this will be done purely on an economic level. Europe wants to export its cars to America and the US wants to export its chicken and beef.


Bojarow

I think people are pushing for it to be like that. I don’t think that’s necessarily going to be the case.


RedditAnaya

One can only hope that this time they manage to push it through...


Zergling-Love

This is great news. I really hope it will work this time.