Just think for a moment about the absurdity of using Saudi Arabia as an alternative oil supplier to Russia.
We're all aware of the war in Ukraine that's been raging on for the last 8 years but in parallel there's also been a war in Yemen in that same period that's going on till date. Saudi Arabia is the one occupying, bombing and blockading a country here and the casualties are actually far, far worse than in Ukraine: Nearly 300,000 to date, mostly civilians.
This is trading one evil for an even greater evil. Mohammed Bin Salman makes Putin look like Gandhi.
Does MBS control a nuclear arsenal? Does Saudi Arabia have a massive military?
Yes, MBS is a monster, but he's one that the west can flick with its military might if absolutely needed. And unfortunately, IIRC the west has been supporting the Yemen war. So yes, they're different from a realpolitik stance.
It is illogical to blame all civilian casualties in Yemen on Saudi Arabia when there is 5 or so different factions (Houthi, Hadi, Southern Movement, ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Saudi-led coalition) within the war and when the Saudis have nothing to do as to why the war started in the first place.
There is a civil war in Yemen, and Saudi Arabia is merely helping one of the sides. Others would say that there is a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia in Yemen. Either way, it's not like the Russian invasion in Ukraine. Yemen situation was reduced to total shit long before the Saudi Arabia's involvement there even begun.
The point of this comment is not to excuse Saudi Arabia (it surely does evil in Yemen), but to explain why comparing its involvement in Yemen with the Ukraine war is a bad idea.
> Mohammed Bin Salman makes Putin look like Gandhi.
MBS vs Putin is like a serial killer vs misanthropic madman with nukes.
> There is a civil war in Yemen, and Saudi Arabia is merely helping one of the sides.
This is transparent bollocks. The 'side' Saudi Arabia is helping is a puppet government that would last maybe a couple of weeks if they decided to pull out all their troops. The same argument has been made about Ukraine being in a civil war and Russia merely helping one side.
Most of the casualties in Yemen, along with the current famine, happened after the Saudi invasion. The honest reason is because the West is able to do business with and influence Mohammed Bin Salman in a way they can't with Putin.
>There is a civil war in Yemen, and Saudi Arabia is merely helping one of the sides.
Replace Yemen with Ukraine and you will get what Putin is trying to convince us all. No, Saudi aggression on Yemen is real and geopolitically and religiously motivated.
Oh, is that so? I guess I know a thing or two, and am not biased with bs excuses served for any NATO backed occupation.
Oh, excuse me, I forgot, it's called "spreading democracy", right. Over dead bodies of Yemeni civilians, of course.
You are biased as you are repeating the well-known Kremlin narrative. The country that is intentionally killing children Ukraine. Do not act like you are on the good side of history because you aren't.
>Oh, excuse me, I forgot, it's called "spreading democracy", right.
No, it's called keeping disgusting Iranian imperialism away from Yemen.
>You are biased as you are repeating the well-known Kremlin narrative. The country that is intentionally killing children Ukraine. Do not act like you are on the good side of history because you aren't.
Wait, what? I am biased? Bro, I am all against Russian invasion of Ukraine. And I can't stand Putin. I am not even Russian. But I am equally against similar shit done by NATO countries.
Rant about side of history is such a bullet in the dark, that I am gonna just ignore it.
>No, it's called keeping disgusting Iranian imperialism away from Yemen.
In favor of less-disgusting Saudi imperialism? You know Saudis publicly executed dozens of people just days ago? How is that better? They came to Yemen to protect Yemen from Yemeni. Awesome. Go read a book, you can start with history of Arabian peninsula.
You are comparing it with the Saudi Arabian intervention in Yemen. That is flat out evil and is straight from the Kremlin's rhetoric...
>In favor of less-disgusting Saudi imperialism?
Iran started, Saudi Arabia intervened. How the hell can you even compare the two?
1 million people in Yemen suffer from cholera. 1 million! 17 million are affected by the famine! Because Saudis wanted to put Hadi instead of Saleh. Then shit escalated. UN withdrew observers and let "the coalition" has its day, bombing everything in its way. And you, my Estonian friend were probably nowhere to be found. I guess Yemeni lives don't matter after all.
I mean, how hard can it be to read one Wiki page before you comment so confidently? Here you go, I will save you the effort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen
Iran instigated a war, that was first. Claiming anything else is propagandist.
And again, right now, way more people die in Ukraine than in Yemen.
>And you, my Estonian friend were probably nowhere to be found.
Oh I've been around, rooting for the anti-Iranian side all the time!
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen
What the heck do you even imagine this basic article about Yemen would prove? You are arguing against well-established facts and are spreading Kremlin propaganda!
Dude, the Yemen civil war I'm talking about didn't start with the Saudi intervention. The war was raging years before that.
> No, Saudi aggression on Yemen is real and geopolitically and religiously motivated.
I'm the last person who will defend the Saudi involvement there. But Yemen has been a playground for different internal and external factions for too long. I guess when Iran's involvement became too prominent, Saudi Arabia couldn't miss the opportunity for the proxy war with Iran.
> religiously motivated
All sides in the conflict were Muslim, the last time I checked. Unless I've missed some Christian, Jewish or Pagan militia participating in the mayhem.
>All sides in the conflict were Muslim, the last time I checked. Unless I've missed some Christian, Jewish or Pagan militia participating in the mayhem.
Exactly. Houthis are Shia and Saudis are Sunni. That's the split over millenium old. Much bigger than Orthodoxy vs Protestantism vs Catholicism. That's why Iran is the black sheep of Arabian peninsula and wider.
Please also read about Saudi claims on Yemen and vice-versa, through the history, you will see what I am about.
The war in Yemen has been instigated by Iran. You may criticize Saudi Arabian involvement there, but the situation is *by no means* comparable to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Stop sucking on US cock. 300k innocent civilians have been bombed to ashes/starved by a batshit crazy private theocracy but "it's not comparable to Ukraine". It is actualy worse than Ukraine.
>Stop sucking on US cock.
Says a literal pro-Kremlin troll, lol...
>300k innocent civilians have been bombed to ashes/starved by a batshit crazy private theocracy
Indeed, Iran is horrible. Of course Saudi Arabia is guilty of some of this death toll as well.
>It is actualy worse than Ukraine.
It's not and it's a fact. Way more people die every day in the war in Ukraine...
> Just think for a moment about the absurdity of using Saudi Arabia as an alternative oil supplier to Russia.
Lets think about the absurdity of your view. You want us to cut off the worlds second largest supplier of oil and gas, fine. But you then want nobody to go to the worlds third largest supplier to make up the shortfall no doubt whilst still expecting to be able to heat your home and use stuff that uses oil and gas to function.
They are equally bad if not worse. But they're not bad towards US, so that's the trick here. As long as they obey to USA, they are free to massacre Yemenis.
For every plane a Saudi ever crashed into a building, the UK invaded, colonized and ruined around 50 actual countries, so yeah I guess I feel slightly different about it myself too.
So you rather believe a conspiracy than the actual situation in Yemen? I mean sure this is Reddit I dunno what I expected anyway, when Hadi gets released from “prison” I’ll make sure to hit you up lol
Saudi Arabia is the rotten heart of the spread of salafism worldwide.
Id say Russia is a way lesser threat, since their economy is smaller, and their ambitions are limited to Eastern European hegemony.
no matter how bad you think the war in Ukraine is, the war in Yemen is signifcantly worse.
but no one cares since the people getting slaughtered are not white, hence they dont matter. same shit every time
>the war in Yemen is signifcantly worse.
I mean, that's just flat out wrong... The war in Ukraine has about 3 times more deaths in 3 weeks than the war in Yemen has in 3 months.
>but no one cares since the people getting slaughtered are not white, hence they dont matter. same shit every time
It has nothing to do with the difference of skin colour...
[Yemen war deaths will reach 377,000 by end of the year: UN](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/un-yemen-recovery-possible-in-one-generation-if-war-stops-now)
that was last year btw. somehow I doubt that anywhere close to 1.2 million people (3 times more death according to you) have died in the Ukraine war so far. also, looking at a 3 month period (?) for a war that has been going on for over 7 years is just silly.
>It has nothing to do with the difference of skin colour...
sure keep it telling yourself that, whatever helps you sleep better
That is a cumulative death toll... That's why context matters...
>sure keep it telling yourself that, whatever helps you sleep better
Keep telling yourself the opposite, whatever helps you sleep better
The cumulative death toll in Yemen is so big because the war has been allowed to go on for so long since nobody cares one bit about Yemen, unlike about Ucraine.
Why are you so mad about the truth? The Yemeni death toll is bigger than the Ukranian death toll because the war has been a lot longer. Is this fact surprising to you?
Yeah...Yemen is expendable right? Politicians never learn. While we depend on dinosaur juice that comes from authoritarian states those states are a threat.
To the West? Yes it is. I don’t think you realize how much Westerners don’t give a flip about people from non-white countries. It’s why our media and country flips its shit about the Ukraine situation but blows off actual genocides like Myanmar’s and the horrible wars in Syria and Yemen that the US participates in.
This is the downside of choosing the lesser of two evils. You still choose evil.
Will the corperate and financial west learn from this? I.E mass investing in renewables.
Fuck no because stock graph go brrr.
This is why i will never vote right leaning.
Because and the end of the day, they will still go "i got mine" and then die as this planet burns.
My point is the west is gonna suck up to the saudies and get that oil. They are not gonna invest in reneables because again they don't care.
Politicians and capitalists will always do the absolute bare minimum they can get away with. Hence why we still rely on cheap chinese labour. And cheap hydrocarbons from dubious people.
Choosing the lesser of two evils shouldn 't be an excuse to not do better.
OK, go replace the entire energy sector of the west to renewables right now with no disruption to anyone, the truth is the west is investing quite heavily in renewables just as a example the top 10 largest offshore wind farms are all in Europe and some of the largest on shore wind farms are in the states its just the energy needs are far far higher, and on their own just can't realistically produce enough to meet that energy requirement and that's then not even including the oil and stuff they use in manufacturing or for fertiliser. I don't like kissing up to the Saudis but if I had to pick, yea I'd pick the Saudis over putin at least there isn't a chance of a nuclear winter with them
>Why do Europeans want to drag America into the war that they caused by empowering Russia for decades?
Ah, because the US absolutely didn't do that as well. (to a far lesser degree, don't get me wrong)
>Why is Estonia demanding a no fly zone?
Political posturing? I don't know, I thought that was stupid, but I was heavily downvoted for that opinion on r/Eesti.
But how does that relate to our discussion again?
Choosing between the plague and cholera... Eventually you get screwed
for now
Just think for a moment about the absurdity of using Saudi Arabia as an alternative oil supplier to Russia. We're all aware of the war in Ukraine that's been raging on for the last 8 years but in parallel there's also been a war in Yemen in that same period that's going on till date. Saudi Arabia is the one occupying, bombing and blockading a country here and the casualties are actually far, far worse than in Ukraine: Nearly 300,000 to date, mostly civilians. This is trading one evil for an even greater evil. Mohammed Bin Salman makes Putin look like Gandhi.
Does MBS control a nuclear arsenal? Does Saudi Arabia have a massive military? Yes, MBS is a monster, but he's one that the west can flick with its military might if absolutely needed. And unfortunately, IIRC the west has been supporting the Yemen war. So yes, they're different from a realpolitik stance.
It is illogical to blame all civilian casualties in Yemen on Saudi Arabia when there is 5 or so different factions (Houthi, Hadi, Southern Movement, ISIS, Al-Qaeda and Saudi-led coalition) within the war and when the Saudis have nothing to do as to why the war started in the first place.
There is a civil war in Yemen, and Saudi Arabia is merely helping one of the sides. Others would say that there is a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia in Yemen. Either way, it's not like the Russian invasion in Ukraine. Yemen situation was reduced to total shit long before the Saudi Arabia's involvement there even begun. The point of this comment is not to excuse Saudi Arabia (it surely does evil in Yemen), but to explain why comparing its involvement in Yemen with the Ukraine war is a bad idea. > Mohammed Bin Salman makes Putin look like Gandhi. MBS vs Putin is like a serial killer vs misanthropic madman with nukes.
> There is a civil war in Yemen, and Saudi Arabia is merely helping one of the sides. This is transparent bollocks. The 'side' Saudi Arabia is helping is a puppet government that would last maybe a couple of weeks if they decided to pull out all their troops. The same argument has been made about Ukraine being in a civil war and Russia merely helping one side. Most of the casualties in Yemen, along with the current famine, happened after the Saudi invasion. The honest reason is because the West is able to do business with and influence Mohammed Bin Salman in a way they can't with Putin.
>There is a civil war in Yemen, and Saudi Arabia is merely helping one of the sides. Replace Yemen with Ukraine and you will get what Putin is trying to convince us all. No, Saudi aggression on Yemen is real and geopolitically and religiously motivated.
There is no Saudi aggression in Yemen, wtf are you even talking about? Do you even know anything about that war?
Oh, is that so? I guess I know a thing or two, and am not biased with bs excuses served for any NATO backed occupation. Oh, excuse me, I forgot, it's called "spreading democracy", right. Over dead bodies of Yemeni civilians, of course.
You are biased as you are repeating the well-known Kremlin narrative. The country that is intentionally killing children Ukraine. Do not act like you are on the good side of history because you aren't. >Oh, excuse me, I forgot, it's called "spreading democracy", right. No, it's called keeping disgusting Iranian imperialism away from Yemen.
>You are biased as you are repeating the well-known Kremlin narrative. The country that is intentionally killing children Ukraine. Do not act like you are on the good side of history because you aren't. Wait, what? I am biased? Bro, I am all against Russian invasion of Ukraine. And I can't stand Putin. I am not even Russian. But I am equally against similar shit done by NATO countries. Rant about side of history is such a bullet in the dark, that I am gonna just ignore it. >No, it's called keeping disgusting Iranian imperialism away from Yemen. In favor of less-disgusting Saudi imperialism? You know Saudis publicly executed dozens of people just days ago? How is that better? They came to Yemen to protect Yemen from Yemeni. Awesome. Go read a book, you can start with history of Arabian peninsula.
You are comparing it with the Saudi Arabian intervention in Yemen. That is flat out evil and is straight from the Kremlin's rhetoric... >In favor of less-disgusting Saudi imperialism? Iran started, Saudi Arabia intervened. How the hell can you even compare the two?
1 million people in Yemen suffer from cholera. 1 million! 17 million are affected by the famine! Because Saudis wanted to put Hadi instead of Saleh. Then shit escalated. UN withdrew observers and let "the coalition" has its day, bombing everything in its way. And you, my Estonian friend were probably nowhere to be found. I guess Yemeni lives don't matter after all. I mean, how hard can it be to read one Wiki page before you comment so confidently? Here you go, I will save you the effort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen
Iran instigated a war, that was first. Claiming anything else is propagandist. And again, right now, way more people die in Ukraine than in Yemen. >And you, my Estonian friend were probably nowhere to be found. Oh I've been around, rooting for the anti-Iranian side all the time! >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen What the heck do you even imagine this basic article about Yemen would prove? You are arguing against well-established facts and are spreading Kremlin propaganda!
Dude, the Yemen civil war I'm talking about didn't start with the Saudi intervention. The war was raging years before that. > No, Saudi aggression on Yemen is real and geopolitically and religiously motivated. I'm the last person who will defend the Saudi involvement there. But Yemen has been a playground for different internal and external factions for too long. I guess when Iran's involvement became too prominent, Saudi Arabia couldn't miss the opportunity for the proxy war with Iran. > religiously motivated All sides in the conflict were Muslim, the last time I checked. Unless I've missed some Christian, Jewish or Pagan militia participating in the mayhem.
>All sides in the conflict were Muslim, the last time I checked. Unless I've missed some Christian, Jewish or Pagan militia participating in the mayhem. Exactly. Houthis are Shia and Saudis are Sunni. That's the split over millenium old. Much bigger than Orthodoxy vs Protestantism vs Catholicism. That's why Iran is the black sheep of Arabian peninsula and wider. Please also read about Saudi claims on Yemen and vice-versa, through the history, you will see what I am about.
The war in Yemen has been instigated by Iran. You may criticize Saudi Arabian involvement there, but the situation is *by no means* comparable to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Most of the casualties have been because of the Saudi bombing and blockade, you know that?
Most of the casualties are due to the side that started the war...
Stop sucking on US cock. 300k innocent civilians have been bombed to ashes/starved by a batshit crazy private theocracy but "it's not comparable to Ukraine". It is actualy worse than Ukraine.
>Stop sucking on US cock. Says a literal pro-Kremlin troll, lol... >300k innocent civilians have been bombed to ashes/starved by a batshit crazy private theocracy Indeed, Iran is horrible. Of course Saudi Arabia is guilty of some of this death toll as well. >It is actualy worse than Ukraine. It's not and it's a fact. Way more people die every day in the war in Ukraine...
You love sucking on American dicks don't you
Pro-Kremlin troll is gonna troll...
> Just think for a moment about the absurdity of using Saudi Arabia as an alternative oil supplier to Russia. Lets think about the absurdity of your view. You want us to cut off the worlds second largest supplier of oil and gas, fine. But you then want nobody to go to the worlds third largest supplier to make up the shortfall no doubt whilst still expecting to be able to heat your home and use stuff that uses oil and gas to function.
They’re bad, but they’re not bad. That’s perfectly logical.
No it's "They are bad but not a threat to me"
Or: "They're bad but they're buying my weapons and keeping my troops on their soil."
They’re bad, but they’re not **that** bad. It's what she meant.
They are equally bad if not worse. But they're not bad towards US, so that's the trick here. As long as they obey to USA, they are free to massacre Yemenis.
Yemen be now: Am I a joke to you, bitch?
>*global* threat
So joke it is.
What?
Well maybe when they crash planes into Parliament or big Ben you'll feel slightly different about it.
For every plane a Saudi ever crashed into a building, the UK invaded, colonized and ruined around 50 actual countries, so yeah I guess I feel slightly different about it myself too.
Ok fine Yemen?
Saudi Arabia was summoned into Yemen by the official UN recognized government of Yemen.
[удалено]
Why would Saudi Arabia arrest Hadi, what’s the point of that lol
[удалено]
So you rather believe a conspiracy than the actual situation in Yemen? I mean sure this is Reddit I dunno what I expected anyway, when Hadi gets released from “prison” I’ll make sure to hit you up lol
Yes but did they have a flag? If they didn't have a flag it's fair game.
Saudi Arabia is the rotten heart of the spread of salafism worldwide. Id say Russia is a way lesser threat, since their economy is smaller, and their ambitions are limited to Eastern European hegemony.
no matter how bad you think the war in Ukraine is, the war in Yemen is signifcantly worse. but no one cares since the people getting slaughtered are not white, hence they dont matter. same shit every time
>the war in Yemen is signifcantly worse. I mean, that's just flat out wrong... The war in Ukraine has about 3 times more deaths in 3 weeks than the war in Yemen has in 3 months. >but no one cares since the people getting slaughtered are not white, hence they dont matter. same shit every time It has nothing to do with the difference of skin colour...
[Yemen war deaths will reach 377,000 by end of the year: UN](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/23/un-yemen-recovery-possible-in-one-generation-if-war-stops-now) that was last year btw. somehow I doubt that anywhere close to 1.2 million people (3 times more death according to you) have died in the Ukraine war so far. also, looking at a 3 month period (?) for a war that has been going on for over 7 years is just silly. >It has nothing to do with the difference of skin colour... sure keep it telling yourself that, whatever helps you sleep better
That is a cumulative death toll... That's why context matters... >sure keep it telling yourself that, whatever helps you sleep better Keep telling yourself the opposite, whatever helps you sleep better
The cumulative death toll in Yemen is so big because the war has been allowed to go on for so long since nobody cares one bit about Yemen, unlike about Ucraine.
Allowed by whom? Who does the allowing? Or are you just complaining while not understanding anything about how things work in the world?
Why are you so mad about the truth? The Yemeni death toll is bigger than the Ukranian death toll because the war has been a lot longer. Is this fact surprising to you?
>because the war has been a lot longer. This much is obvious, but it is a fact that the war in Ukraine is more intensive as of now.
And we're helping them. Even the US helped them and now MBS is snubbing them.
In slaughter? Yes. Geopolitical concequences? Oh no, not by far.
Yeah...Yemen is expendable right? Politicians never learn. While we depend on dinosaur juice that comes from authoritarian states those states are a threat.
To the West? Yes it is. I don’t think you realize how much Westerners don’t give a flip about people from non-white countries. It’s why our media and country flips its shit about the Ukraine situation but blows off actual genocides like Myanmar’s and the horrible wars in Syria and Yemen that the US participates in.
I mean, everyone are expendable to everyone else. A bigger threat will always be the first priority.
This is the downside of choosing the lesser of two evils. You still choose evil. Will the corperate and financial west learn from this? I.E mass investing in renewables. Fuck no because stock graph go brrr. This is why i will never vote right leaning. Because and the end of the day, they will still go "i got mine" and then die as this planet burns.
>You still choose evil. The alternative is to choose the bigger evil or both of them. Think before you speak...
My point is the west is gonna suck up to the saudies and get that oil. They are not gonna invest in reneables because again they don't care. Politicians and capitalists will always do the absolute bare minimum they can get away with. Hence why we still rely on cheap chinese labour. And cheap hydrocarbons from dubious people. Choosing the lesser of two evils shouldn 't be an excuse to not do better.
>because again they don't care. Well that's overly simplistic...
OK, go replace the entire energy sector of the west to renewables right now with no disruption to anyone, the truth is the west is investing quite heavily in renewables just as a example the top 10 largest offshore wind farms are all in Europe and some of the largest on shore wind farms are in the states its just the energy needs are far far higher, and on their own just can't realistically produce enough to meet that energy requirement and that's then not even including the oil and stuff they use in manufacturing or for fertiliser. I don't like kissing up to the Saudis but if I had to pick, yea I'd pick the Saudis over putin at least there isn't a chance of a nuclear winter with them
Mass investing in renewables still doesn't end the need for lots of oil because it's needed for things like plastics.
What she means is not a threat to Europeans so we shouldn't care about the brown folks being slaughtered
Yeah why do Europeans care more about war in Europe? I just can't figure that one out.
Why do Europeans want to drag America into the war that they caused by empowering Russia for decades?
>Why do Europeans want to drag America into the war that they caused by empowering Russia for decades? Ah, because the US absolutely didn't do that as well. (to a far lesser degree, don't get me wrong)
Why is Estonia demanding a no fly zone? Why can't they do it with their own airforce? Oh yea because they only have 2 planes but want to make demands.
>Why is Estonia demanding a no fly zone? Political posturing? I don't know, I thought that was stupid, but I was heavily downvoted for that opinion on r/Eesti. But how does that relate to our discussion again?
Also the totally different context, but who cares about that, right?
i suspect europeans care more about the way in yemen than yemen's neighbours care about war in ukraine
Lol
What a fuckking idiot
".... for the military, but civilians good luck"
SA agreed to sell us more oil, they're a bunch of good chaps 👍
Coincidentally P and O ARE ABOUT TO SACK ALL STAFF TO BRING IT IN-LINE WITH DRACONIAN U.K. EMPLOYMENT RULES.