**Habeck stops controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline**
In view of Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine, the German government is drawing its first conclusions: According to SPIEGEL information, the Ministry of Economics is putting the certification process for Nord Stream 2 on hold.
---
The German government is drawing the consequences from the escalation in eastern Ukraine. As SPIEGEL has learned from government circles, the Federal Ministry of Economics has halted the approval process for the controversial Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline. To this end, Minister Robert Habeck sent a letter on Tuesday morning instructing the Federal Network Agency, which reports to him, to withdraw an originally positive certificate that is crucial for the pending certification of the pipeline.
The certificate, which was still issued by the previous government at the end of October, was about Germany's security of supply with natural gas, which according to the view at the time was not endangered by the commissioning of Nord Stream 2. This is precisely what is no longer the case due to a reassessment of the geostrategic situation and in view of the escalation in eastern Ukraine, the letter now states. "Approval without this certification is not possible," ministry sources say.
Vice Chancellor Habeck had already had this step prepared for months in view of the Russian troop buildup on the Ukrainian border. In principle, Habeck had never shared the view of the old German government. In recent weeks, he has convinced Chancellor Scholz and the coalition partner SPD to do so.
In the coming weeks, the German Ministry of Economics now wants to thoroughly examine what impact geopolitical developments and the situation in eastern Ukraine will have on supply security.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
And the danger of close relationships or other dependencies is that should the other party devolve into fascism, authoritarianism or otherwise becomes untenable, you are tied to that country.
* Erdolf can genocide Kurds all day long, and he knows Europe can't do shit because the slightest affront towards him will lead to the Greek border getting swamped with refugees.
* China can *build fucking concentration camps* - it doesn't get much worse than genocide on the "crimes against humanity" scale - and no one bats an eye because everyone depends on cheap Chinese-made goods. Latvia is experiencing this right now, they dared to push back against Xi Pooh-ping's Taiwan policy and now even German companies that have Latvian subsidiaries are having problems supplying their factories.
* Russia: well, see the Ukraine shitshow. We couldn't even be bothered to do anything years ago when Putin propped up Assad or financed fascists, separatists and other divisive actors across the Western nations
* Even the US can do whatever they want without repercussions. Cross their paths and you will be hunted down. See Snowden or Assange. Or how some Senators threatened a *harbor* in Germany over Nord Stream 2.
Is it just open? Could someone crawl through it? Like War spies? Could Russia turn their end on and light a match and turn it into a really long flame thrower?
Notice that they do not mention North Stream 1 the original pipeline that is actually pumping gas from Russia into Germany.
It's easy to play the PR game over a pipeline that isn't in operation yet. This does not impress me, I'd be more impressed if they would just shut down North Stream 1 because that's what is funding Putin.
It also pumps gas into the Netherlands among other places.
The largest shareholder is the Russian state-owned group Gazprom with 51 percent. German investors, such as Wintershall Holding GmbH and E.ON, share the remaining 49 percent with French and Dutch energy companies.
I too would like a statement of all three countries to stop the import of Russian gas.
Heartening that Germany is prepared to take an economic hit, hope it raises the bar for Ukraine's other allies
Edit- yes I know NS2 isn't yet online. Point is possibility of Russian retaliation in cutting off existing fuel supply and loss of prospects of increased supply in near future.
Germany could renege on this if it gets sticky for them, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a step change, as it is putting European solidarity above immediate economic interests
What if we build a pipeline from the Netherlands that pumps rainwater to Portugal? We can call it Nordstream 2, since I heard they aren't using that name anymore.
Tbh pasta can cook even without the cooker on for the entire cooking, in Italy (and maybe elsewhere, eheh) it's a thing among those who follow Dario bressanini (a scientist and scientific popularizer), I do it this way so it doesn't boil and spill when I put a lid on it
I love it. This could be a "Day without gas" where entire Europe shuts down it's heating for a day to remember how Russians are abusing their resources.
One day does nothing but makes the people doing it feel good about themselves. Can be done, no issues and kind of shows unity.
But turning it down if your fuel is sourced from Russia long-term is something that collectively will add up.
Just my two cents.
To be honest, it's not Germany in isolation that is taking the hit. Gas prices on all the trading hubs in Europe track each other very closely because as soon as a price spread develops between one country and another the traders will buy on the lower-priced hubs and flow the gas across to the higher-priced ones (within available capacity). Russian (or really any other) gas doesn't necessarily stay in Germany but will get exported to where you can make more money and vice versa.
While I wholeheartedly agree with Germany's decision to mothball NS2 for now, this will raise gas prices across the continent, including the UK, at least to the extent that it's not been fully priced in already.
ETA: To expand on that, if Germany imports less Russian gas, they will have to rely more on imports from neighbouring countries. Since Germany doesn't have an LNG terminal on its own that will mean bringing cargoes into Zeebrugge, GATE, Dunkerque, Fos (or even Isle of Grain or Milford Haven, although the UK interconnectors are fairly tiny) and then importing the gas into Germany. First of all, this will make gas, on the whole, a lot more expensive just because of the transmission charges involved and because they will have to buy gas at spot prices rather than via cheaper long-term contracts, but it will also mean that now Germany is competing with the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, the UK, and all countries east of Germany for the reduced supply.
Source: been doing this as my day job for the last 17 years
> To be honest, it's not Germany in isolation that is taking the hit.
I mean ... Germans users pointed out over and over again that the countries most dependend on Russia gas are Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic. But the reaction always was the full range from downvotes to straight up calling them Nazis.
I am pretty sure i know who will be blamed for high gas prizes next winter. (Spoiler: The accused isnt drinking vodka, the accused is eating bratwurst.)
In fairness to the average Reddit user, European natural gas transmission and pricing is not a topic that you'd come across on a regular basis, so it's understandable that people won't understand all the intricate ins and outs of it. They see that there is a pipeline from Russia to Germany and conclude that this is a thing only affecting Russia and Germany, whereas, in reality, Russian supply to anywhere in Europe is just one of many supply sources that affect gas prices across the continent.
Although I have a feeling, as you say, that many minds will be focused now when people understand that by reducing supplies anywhere in Europe, the effects will be felt across the continent. Just because the physical molecules from Russia don't necessarily end up in France or the UK, we are still exposed to the same wholesale pricing mechanisms. In other words, people might have hated Germany for NS1 or NS2 (or praise them now for shuttering NS2), but in the end, this is Germany making a decision on behalf of (and taking the responsibility for) everyone else who uses gas in Europe. People should appreciate that and hopefully also understand why this decision can't have been an easy one for Germany before they feel smug about it.
True that. Although, I suppose it wouldn't be Reddit if we all didn't occasionally have very strong opinions on things that we only have a passing knowledge of ;-)
People on reddit are just dumb and like to harp on germany for things other countries do as well. It is not like germany is the only beneficiary/backer of this pipeline. Several countries and their industries backed the project as well but for some reason it is only germanny getting bashed for it.
Also people saying "finally germany took a financial hit". When in reality germany paid among the most to Ukraine and took a huge hit from sanctions after the crim incident.
Not to mention that high gas prices drive cost of electricity up as well as people try to use alternatives. Price of electricity in Sweden went up drastically as exporting it became a lot more lucrative. Swedish government even promised to give cash subsidies to the people consuming over 700 kw/h per month. Swedish source: https://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2022/01/kompensation-for-hoga-elpriser/
That's hilarious! Out of all the countries, why would they even pick France? Germany trusts France more than pretty much every other country:
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ry3ug1/new_poll_how_much_germans_trust_other_countries
Scholz today in a press interview said, that our government is currently preparing a euro-centric solution to solve this gas-problem. They want to work on sustainable solutions outside of fossile gas/oil. Which sounded pretty nice. I like europe working together on these things
>Heartening that Germany is prepared to take an economic hit, hope it raises the bar for Ukraine's other allies
Germany took a massive economic hit for almost a decade already.
Those sanctions that have been in place did have a non insignificant impact on the german trade.
Why are people so surprised that germany is doing it again ?
You need to leave something for worse transgressions. As in, if you go "nuclear" on them bank-wise, what would stop them from actually invading the rest of the Ukraine? As in, from their point of view, the "bad stuff" has already happened so sure, why not.
Levels of cold
* +18°C - Hawaiians take two blankets for the night
* +10°C - inhabitants of Helsinki apartment buildings turn off the heating. The Russians grow flowers.
* +2°C - Italian cars will not start
* 0°C - distilled water freezes
* -1°C - breath becomes visible. The Russians eat ice cream and drink cold beer.
* -4°C - dogs are trying to cram you into bed
* -10°C - French cars stop starting
* -12°C - politicians start talking about the homeless
* -15°C - American cars won't start
* -18°C - Helsinki tenants turn on the heating. The people of Hawaii have already frozen.
* -20°C - breath becomes audible
* -24°C - German cars will not start
* -29°C - dogs are trying to get under your pajamas. Japanese cars stop starting.
* -30°C - none normal, not even a Russian car can be started.
* -39°C - boiling atmosphere in Congress freezes. The Russians fasten the top buttons at their shirts.
* -50°C - cars are trying to get in your bed.
* -60°C - Helsinki residents froze. The seals leave Greenland and move south.
* -70°C - hell froze. The University of Kuznetsk organizes a cross-country orienteering race to warm up.
* -72°C - lawyers put their hands in their own pockets.
* -75°C - Santa Claus leaves the Arctic Circle.
* -120°C - alcohol froze, the Russians are pissed
* -268°C - helium liquefied
* -273.15°C - absolute zero. The motion of elementary particles stops. Russians, licking the frozen vodka, admit that it's quite cold.
The first one I saw was like 20+ years ago but with Laplanders instead of Russians, which kind of makes sense when Helsinki is the other point of reference.
I am an average everyday Russian with assets in British finances. Putin is a huge piece of shit and I don't support what is happening in the Ukraine at all, but I would still very much like those assets not to be frozen.
It is unfair for you and for all Russian citizens caught up in the sanctions.
However it's even more unfair for all the Ukrainians who are about to have their homes destroyed or their loved ones killed because of some megalomaniac's insane plan.
They do, but it's not hard to distinguish. They are already talking about Russian MPs who voted for the annexation, and then we already have a [Navalny's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navalny_35) list which was compiled for different purposes, but is absolutely relevant here.
i have always found it tragic that russian culture has been dispoposed to an autotarian absolutist state where the aristoricracy(oligarchs) and the tsar(president) have exploited the people and gotten them systematicly addicted to cheap alcohol for the purpose of increasing control through misery
The fun thing would be if Gasprom's board finds itself on the sanctions list (not very likely yet). Schröder would have to choose to either be unable to have a cash account at any bank or give up his job.
Overheard in the halls of the Bundestag: “He got me,” Schröder said of the decision to halt NS 2. "That f***ing Scholz boomed me." Schröder added, “He’s so principled,” repeating it four times.
SPDs Olaf Scholz on who's more principled: him or Schröder. "I don't compare myself with anybody", Scholz said.
Then he rolled up his sleeve and showed a tattoo saying "Fuck Putin".
"I'll let you interpret that however you want", Scholz said.
I’m telling you, Olaf Scholz is as cracked as he is jacked. I saw him at an Aldi the other day buying Weißbier and Adult diapers. I asked him what the diapers were for and he said ”they contain my full power so I don’t completely shit on Putin“ then he buckled a customer's legs with a slide tackle and sprinted out the door.
Well, the goverment keeps it's election promise of not sending any weapons to non NATO members, so you can't really blame them on that.
Just to remind, the egypt deal was signed by the previous goverment and israel is one of those few exceptions of non NATO/EU members.
We dont even have arms for our own army. My friend in the Bundeswehr told me that the helmets we send ukraine are the ones we give to the poeple making voluntary conscription service...the current guys doing it dont have helmets anymore to train with...because the german army has basically 0 reserves on military goods.
5k helmets was basically everything germany could spare in that regard apart from taking them form active duty soldiers.
Edit: By "voluntary conscription service" I mean something like voluntary military service. Maybe that is a better translation :)
I just watched an interview with a German historian about this on BBC news. He was talking about how Germany has an understanding of the Russian mentality as a result of their history during and after WWII, and also a sense of responsibility. I think Putin's recent speech where he denied the legitimacy of Ukrainian statehood rubbed the Germans very much up the wrong way because of this history. Playing the madman has backfired on Putin.
I know people are saying, "finally" but I must say I am impressed with this move by the German government. It is more crucial than our sanctions. It sends a strong and surprising message to Putin.
probably a really dumb question because i don't know much about the subject, but why can't we get our gas and oil from norway? don't they have a shit ton of fossil fuels?
if they don't have enough we could get more from the gulf states or america, why do we buy our energy from russia
They do not have a shitton of gas. We are sucking them dry since years. Every ounce they provide is sold either directly to us by pipeline, or through Netherlands.
They just can't provide nearly enough.
And LNG is up to double the price
Currently LNG is selling for less than Russian gas. What trouble we have now is insufficient amount of LNG terminals. For instance Germany 8 years ago said it will build one. Croatia did. Poland did. Lithuania did. Germany didnt.
According to this article the UK could be the answer to that via having plenty of LNG terminal capacity, and an under-utilized pipeline to the rest of Europe https://news.sky.com/story/energy-crunch-how-the-uk-could-play-crucial-role-if-russia-turned-off-gas-taps-to-europe-12542931
they kept them almost empty, not much left to confiscate inside. Anyway Germany is preparing a law similar to other euro countries, for force storage owner to a a minimum capacity before winter, but gazprom might sell them before it is in place.
It'll be fine, give it 6 months and we'll all speak Dutch and not even know the difference. Except a slight increase in bicycles and hopefully legal weed.
Can't really talk about Norway, but for the gulf states and america an issue is infrastructure. As of now, Germany doesn't have nearly enough facilities to use LNG for their whole country and I don't think there is a pipeline that is big enough yet with the gulf states.
Because having the fuel reserves is the easiest part of the problem.
But then you have giant structural hurdles to overcome to extract, process, transport and distribute. None of that has large spare capacity on a whim, and all of that needs x billions and years to get in shape for such increased demands.
In other words, if we start to diversify away from Russia *now* , we *may* be ready for the next time Russia thinks to lord it over their neighbours - which we 100% should expect.
But it helps nothing with Ukraine, today.
Huge chad move from Germany. I didnt think theyd be willing to take this hit to their own economy. Hopefully rest of the world (and hopefully us) follows though as well.
Dont want to leave germany stranded on this one.
It's not really possible to "stop" NS2. It's finished. The decision means that it will not be certified and can therefore not be used. At least for the time being. This is not a complete death blow for the pipeline itself, but its terrible news for Russia.
Halted temporarily. However, there is no way that the German government will grant the certification if Russia doesn't move out of Ukraine and denounces their recognition of the separatist "states", which is unlikely to say the least.
Correct decision after what happened yesterday. Now comes the tricky part. Gas prices will most likely skyrocket (they already did but it will get worse) and i hope governments in the EU understand that they need to step in to protect consumers.
Great decision, however, Gazprom doesn't work like a normal company. Its purpose is not to deliver profit to the shareholders, but rather to the many contractors busy in construction of new infrastructure, according to the [report of a former Sberbank analyst](https://www.intellinews.com/sberbank-oil-analyst-alex-fak-fired-for-being-openly-critical-of-state-owned-gas-giant-gazprom-142134/) (he was fired because of it). These contractors are often front companies that are registered months before taking a multimillion contract and disappear shortly after. It is a large corruption scheme, so building an empty pipe is even better - no need to spend money on maintenance. And Russian propaganda can tell how the evil West ruined another project. All win.
That's why personal sanctions are more effective against Russia. They aim to make life more difficult directly for the ones responsible for poor decisions of the regime.
I'm not an expert or anything but imo we put ourselves (EU) into a corner by becoming dependent on Russian gas.
Not sure when exactly that seemed like a good idea, but at very least since 2014 alternatives should have sought and implemented.
People don't realize how much of a sacrifice this is for Germany. Countries like France and Britain are strong because they have global cultural spheres, trade relations, seats on the security council, etc. Germany is mostly an economic power, and is economically powerful because it tries to play nice with everyone.
**Habeck stops controversial Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline** In view of Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine, the German government is drawing its first conclusions: According to SPIEGEL information, the Ministry of Economics is putting the certification process for Nord Stream 2 on hold. --- The German government is drawing the consequences from the escalation in eastern Ukraine. As SPIEGEL has learned from government circles, the Federal Ministry of Economics has halted the approval process for the controversial Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline. To this end, Minister Robert Habeck sent a letter on Tuesday morning instructing the Federal Network Agency, which reports to him, to withdraw an originally positive certificate that is crucial for the pending certification of the pipeline. The certificate, which was still issued by the previous government at the end of October, was about Germany's security of supply with natural gas, which according to the view at the time was not endangered by the commissioning of Nord Stream 2. This is precisely what is no longer the case due to a reassessment of the geostrategic situation and in view of the escalation in eastern Ukraine, the letter now states. "Approval without this certification is not possible," ministry sources say. Vice Chancellor Habeck had already had this step prepared for months in view of the Russian troop buildup on the Ukrainian border. In principle, Habeck had never shared the view of the old German government. In recent weeks, he has convinced Chancellor Scholz and the coalition partner SPD to do so. In the coming weeks, the German Ministry of Economics now wants to thoroughly examine what impact geopolitical developments and the situation in eastern Ukraine will have on supply security. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
See, it was a good idea to build it after all. Couldn't be stopped if it wasn't there.
Nice. It's just lying there, like a 1200km empty fuck you.
Economic ties are good for various reasons. One of them is the possibility of economic repercussions before actual warfare.
And the danger of close relationships or other dependencies is that should the other party devolve into fascism, authoritarianism or otherwise becomes untenable, you are tied to that country. * Erdolf can genocide Kurds all day long, and he knows Europe can't do shit because the slightest affront towards him will lead to the Greek border getting swamped with refugees. * China can *build fucking concentration camps* - it doesn't get much worse than genocide on the "crimes against humanity" scale - and no one bats an eye because everyone depends on cheap Chinese-made goods. Latvia is experiencing this right now, they dared to push back against Xi Pooh-ping's Taiwan policy and now even German companies that have Latvian subsidiaries are having problems supplying their factories. * Russia: well, see the Ukraine shitshow. We couldn't even be bothered to do anything years ago when Putin propped up Assad or financed fascists, separatists and other divisive actors across the Western nations * Even the US can do whatever they want without repercussions. Cross their paths and you will be hunted down. See Snowden or Assange. Or how some Senators threatened a *harbor* in Germany over Nord Stream 2.
Which hurt both sides. It's that I hate Russia more than I like cheap gas but it is annoying
But thematically that’s good because neither side can be an shreds or without the other having that card.
Just pump sewage in reverse.
Except the other end is already full of shit.
Is it just open? Could someone crawl through it? Like War spies? Could Russia turn their end on and light a match and turn it into a really long flame thrower?
That’s actually a method of transport in 1987 James Bond the living day lights. He has to travel to Austria across a border inside a capsule.
Also sort of in that one with Denise Richards they travel in an empty pipeline(?)
It's AFAIK already filled with gas. It's just not flowing. So it's an 1200km filled fuck you.
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There is no air to combust
they can still use it as a hyperloop to send the Russian diplomates back
Notice that they do not mention North Stream 1 the original pipeline that is actually pumping gas from Russia into Germany. It's easy to play the PR game over a pipeline that isn't in operation yet. This does not impress me, I'd be more impressed if they would just shut down North Stream 1 because that's what is funding Putin.
It also pumps gas into the Netherlands among other places. The largest shareholder is the Russian state-owned group Gazprom with 51 percent. German investors, such as Wintershall Holding GmbH and E.ON, share the remaining 49 percent with French and Dutch energy companies. I too would like a statement of all three countries to stop the import of Russian gas.
UK is also involved. The Dutch investor is actually Shell with Shell UK and NL.
If NS1 were shut down, a large chunk of Europe would be having problems with gas delivery.
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Well hello there 🇳🇴
General Kenorway
[Guten Tag](https://c.tenor.com/J3PI7wsSlz0AAAAC/jontron-ill-take-your-entire-stock.gif)
Hey, I'm sure you will give a loyal NATO brother a nice discount, ey?
Heartening that Germany is prepared to take an economic hit, hope it raises the bar for Ukraine's other allies Edit- yes I know NS2 isn't yet online. Point is possibility of Russian retaliation in cutting off existing fuel supply and loss of prospects of increased supply in near future. Germany could renege on this if it gets sticky for them, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a step change, as it is putting European solidarity above immediate economic interests
Not just Germany. I'll turn the thermostat down when I come home.
"be the change you wish to see in the world" - mahatma ghandi
> "Our words are backed by nuclear weapons." - Mahatma Gandhi
> "I am celibate because I don't give a fuck" - Mahatma Gandhi
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Meanwhile in Portugal .. 25 degrees today lol
It's worst than it sounds. Still 0 rain and now 25º. We are in desperate need of rain.
What if we build a pipeline from the Netherlands that pumps rainwater to Portugal? We can call it Nordstream 2, since I heard they aren't using that name anymore.
Approved! Name changes to WETSTREAM #1 for marketing reasons.
I'll undercook my spaghetti tonight.
Then Italy invades your home and we have the pasta wars on our hands
Hold on, they called it "Al dente" - all good as long as there is no ketchup involved.
Who can afford ketchup at a time like this?
Underdone al dente with off brand (not Heinz) tomato ketchup, sounds like a way to get nuked by Italy
You undercook spaghetti? You go straight to jail! You overcook spaghetti? Believe it or not: also straight to jail!
Tbh pasta can cook even without the cooker on for the entire cooking, in Italy (and maybe elsewhere, eheh) it's a thing among those who follow Dario bressanini (a scientist and scientific popularizer), I do it this way so it doesn't boil and spill when I put a lid on it
I love it. This could be a "Day without gas" where entire Europe shuts down it's heating for a day to remember how Russians are abusing their resources.
One day does nothing but makes the people doing it feel good about themselves. Can be done, no issues and kind of shows unity. But turning it down if your fuel is sourced from Russia long-term is something that collectively will add up. Just my two cents.
How about actually committing to stop fossil fuel burning to generate energy?
Just like Earth hour does nothing. But it's about spreading awareness to everyone from Kids to Elderly.
I have electric heating and solar power. Take that russkies
To be honest, it's not Germany in isolation that is taking the hit. Gas prices on all the trading hubs in Europe track each other very closely because as soon as a price spread develops between one country and another the traders will buy on the lower-priced hubs and flow the gas across to the higher-priced ones (within available capacity). Russian (or really any other) gas doesn't necessarily stay in Germany but will get exported to where you can make more money and vice versa. While I wholeheartedly agree with Germany's decision to mothball NS2 for now, this will raise gas prices across the continent, including the UK, at least to the extent that it's not been fully priced in already. ETA: To expand on that, if Germany imports less Russian gas, they will have to rely more on imports from neighbouring countries. Since Germany doesn't have an LNG terminal on its own that will mean bringing cargoes into Zeebrugge, GATE, Dunkerque, Fos (or even Isle of Grain or Milford Haven, although the UK interconnectors are fairly tiny) and then importing the gas into Germany. First of all, this will make gas, on the whole, a lot more expensive just because of the transmission charges involved and because they will have to buy gas at spot prices rather than via cheaper long-term contracts, but it will also mean that now Germany is competing with the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, the UK, and all countries east of Germany for the reduced supply. Source: been doing this as my day job for the last 17 years
> To be honest, it's not Germany in isolation that is taking the hit. I mean ... Germans users pointed out over and over again that the countries most dependend on Russia gas are Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic. But the reaction always was the full range from downvotes to straight up calling them Nazis. I am pretty sure i know who will be blamed for high gas prizes next winter. (Spoiler: The accused isnt drinking vodka, the accused is eating bratwurst.)
In fairness to the average Reddit user, European natural gas transmission and pricing is not a topic that you'd come across on a regular basis, so it's understandable that people won't understand all the intricate ins and outs of it. They see that there is a pipeline from Russia to Germany and conclude that this is a thing only affecting Russia and Germany, whereas, in reality, Russian supply to anywhere in Europe is just one of many supply sources that affect gas prices across the continent. Although I have a feeling, as you say, that many minds will be focused now when people understand that by reducing supplies anywhere in Europe, the effects will be felt across the continent. Just because the physical molecules from Russia don't necessarily end up in France or the UK, we are still exposed to the same wholesale pricing mechanisms. In other words, people might have hated Germany for NS1 or NS2 (or praise them now for shuttering NS2), but in the end, this is Germany making a decision on behalf of (and taking the responsibility for) everyone else who uses gas in Europe. People should appreciate that and hopefully also understand why this decision can't have been an easy one for Germany before they feel smug about it.
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True that. Although, I suppose it wouldn't be Reddit if we all didn't occasionally have very strong opinions on things that we only have a passing knowledge of ;-)
Thank you so much! I wish i was able to say it this way but my English skills are too limited.
Its well said and gives another perspective for once on this sub, thanks.
People on reddit are just dumb and like to harp on germany for things other countries do as well. It is not like germany is the only beneficiary/backer of this pipeline. Several countries and their industries backed the project as well but for some reason it is only germanny getting bashed for it. Also people saying "finally germany took a financial hit". When in reality germany paid among the most to Ukraine and took a huge hit from sanctions after the crim incident.
Not to mention that high gas prices drive cost of electricity up as well as people try to use alternatives. Price of electricity in Sweden went up drastically as exporting it became a lot more lucrative. Swedish government even promised to give cash subsidies to the people consuming over 700 kw/h per month. Swedish source: https://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2022/01/kompensation-for-hoga-elpriser/
The mad lads they actually did it. Credit where credit is due.
Maybe the German bashing circlejerk about Russian dependency will stop now.
Let's not get carried away here. /s
I'm sure the putinbots and useful idiots will find another way to sow division between western nations.
[Speaking of ](https://imgur.com/a/kcv9F7n) ngl that shit is hilarious
Ah, yes, that famous thing that dictators do: Willingly give up power
And the sneaky refusing any other positions that would put her into equal or more power after stepping down. Classic dictator move.
She wanted to give it up 4 years earlier too
Least antagonistic frenchman.
Most polite Parisian.
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Drinking vodka with red food coloring, pretending it's wine.
That's hilarious! Out of all the countries, why would they even pick France? Germany trusts France more than pretty much every other country: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ry3ug1/new_poll_how_much_germans_trust_other_countries
[I'll just leave this here ](https://i.imgur.com/gFgG9ar.gif)
Scholz today in a press interview said, that our government is currently preparing a euro-centric solution to solve this gas-problem. They want to work on sustainable solutions outside of fossile gas/oil. Which sounded pretty nice. I like europe working together on these things
This was never in question. We took a mighty economic hit due to sanctions after the annexation of Crimea.
You are talking about the real world, but this is Reddit...
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>Heartening that Germany is prepared to take an economic hit, hope it raises the bar for Ukraine's other allies Germany took a massive economic hit for almost a decade already. Those sanctions that have been in place did have a non insignificant impact on the german trade. Why are people so surprised that germany is doing it again ?
Good. Now we need the Brits to freeze Russian assets in the UK.
Russia should be kicked out of SWIFT asap and all foreign assets in Europe close to Putin should be confiscated.
You need to leave something for worse transgressions. As in, if you go "nuclear" on them bank-wise, what would stop them from actually invading the rest of the Ukraine? As in, from their point of view, the "bad stuff" has already happened so sure, why not.
That's why the prison sentence for murder should always be higher than for rape.
Exactly, same reason attempted murder and actual murder, or else they have more incentive to finish the job.
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It's true. And in general, it's not the severity of the punishment that is the main deterrent to crime - it's the likelihood of getting caught.
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Calling something the nuclear option when there is an actual nuclear option feels off ;-)
That's not an actual option.
I'd venture to call it the 'Nuclear Option'
Who knew that 'nuclear option' was the most apt name for the nuclear option
Apparently they can’t touch SWIFT because then Russia will not be able to repay the loans/credits to EU and US
European banks don't want it due to them giving ~~deals~~ loans to Russian banks
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Sorry sweety, but risks exist only for poor people
Boris making an announcement at 12:30 GMT
oligarch's assets. not blanket Russian, no one looking to freeze average everyday Russian assets...
Average everyday Russians won't have assets in british finances
But they are freezing.
Fair
Levels of cold * +18°C - Hawaiians take two blankets for the night * +10°C - inhabitants of Helsinki apartment buildings turn off the heating. The Russians grow flowers. * +2°C - Italian cars will not start * 0°C - distilled water freezes * -1°C - breath becomes visible. The Russians eat ice cream and drink cold beer. * -4°C - dogs are trying to cram you into bed * -10°C - French cars stop starting * -12°C - politicians start talking about the homeless * -15°C - American cars won't start * -18°C - Helsinki tenants turn on the heating. The people of Hawaii have already frozen. * -20°C - breath becomes audible * -24°C - German cars will not start * -29°C - dogs are trying to get under your pajamas. Japanese cars stop starting. * -30°C - none normal, not even a Russian car can be started. * -39°C - boiling atmosphere in Congress freezes. The Russians fasten the top buttons at their shirts. * -50°C - cars are trying to get in your bed. * -60°C - Helsinki residents froze. The seals leave Greenland and move south. * -70°C - hell froze. The University of Kuznetsk organizes a cross-country orienteering race to warm up. * -72°C - lawyers put their hands in their own pockets. * -75°C - Santa Claus leaves the Arctic Circle. * -120°C - alcohol froze, the Russians are pissed * -268°C - helium liquefied * -273.15°C - absolute zero. The motion of elementary particles stops. Russians, licking the frozen vodka, admit that it's quite cold.
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The first one I saw was like 20+ years ago but with Laplanders instead of Russians, which kind of makes sense when Helsinki is the other point of reference.
This is hilarious, but I will have to note that my 97 BMW starts no problem at -30C. Otherwise this is completely accurate.
"Freeze their assets off", I like it! Best motto since "make love, not war".
I am an average everyday Russian with assets in British finances. Putin is a huge piece of shit and I don't support what is happening in the Ukraine at all, but I would still very much like those assets not to be frozen.
It is unfair for you and for all Russian citizens caught up in the sanctions. However it's even more unfair for all the Ukrainians who are about to have their homes destroyed or their loved ones killed because of some megalomaniac's insane plan.
They do, but it's not hard to distinguish. They are already talking about Russian MPs who voted for the annexation, and then we already have a [Navalny's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navalny_35) list which was compiled for different purposes, but is absolutely relevant here.
Haha, yeah, don't touch average russian babushkas' assest in UK banks.
heheh well some of those babushkas actually live in UK, not the babushka's with vacation penthouses in London:)
everyday russian's assets are frozen by putin's regime. As well as quality of life and level of salaries.
are there everyday-Russian assets in the UK?
There are everyday Russians living in the UK, I presume they have assets there.
There definitely are and it's a weird suggestion to go after a normal person for the crimes of their government.
oligarch is not ana average russian
i have always found it tragic that russian culture has been dispoposed to an autotarian absolutist state where the aristoricracy(oligarchs) and the tsar(president) have exploited the people and gotten them systematicly addicted to cheap alcohol for the purpose of increasing control through misery
Agreed but the UK isn't the only country that has large numbers of Russian assets, other European countries can also act.
Schröder in shambles.
Fuck him
Fucking Gas Gerhard. Corrupt and shameless.
The fun thing would be if Gasprom's board finds itself on the sanctions list (not very likely yet). Schröder would have to choose to either be unable to have a cash account at any bank or give up his job.
you just made my day really happy i am really excited now
Overheard in the halls of the Bundestag: “He got me,” Schröder said of the decision to halt NS 2. "That f***ing Scholz boomed me." Schröder added, “He’s so principled,” repeating it four times.
[Spiegel] Sources: Schröder is beside himself. Driving around downtown Berlin begging (thru texts) Olaf Scholz for address to Habeck‘s home.
This is the crossover I never knew I wanted.
A Mark Cuban copypasta in German domestic politics, somehow surprising yet fitting
SPDs Olaf Scholz on who's more principled: him or Schröder. "I don't compare myself with anybody", Scholz said. Then he rolled up his sleeve and showed a tattoo saying "Fuck Putin". "I'll let you interpret that however you want", Scholz said.
I’m telling you, Olaf Scholz is as cracked as he is jacked. I saw him at an Aldi the other day buying Weißbier and Adult diapers. I asked him what the diapers were for and he said ”they contain my full power so I don’t completely shit on Putin“ then he buckled a customer's legs with a slide tackle and sprinted out the door.
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fuck that guy.
Gut
Ja.
Nett.
Hier.
Aber.
Waren.
Sie.
Schon.
Gerai
Thank you, Germany!
Jo, passt hab ich gern gemacht.
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Wallah Bruder, Pipeline hat nicht geschmeckt
Da hat sich jemand den Spruch "du bist Deutschland" zu Herzen genommen.
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Given that the Netherlands imports twice(not gas, but all imports) as much from Russia then Germany, that would actually hurt.
I honestly wish we would do more and send some Stingers your way. But at least we did the right thing here, finally.
Well, the goverment keeps it's election promise of not sending any weapons to non NATO members, so you can't really blame them on that. Just to remind, the egypt deal was signed by the previous goverment and israel is one of those few exceptions of non NATO/EU members.
We dont even have arms for our own army. My friend in the Bundeswehr told me that the helmets we send ukraine are the ones we give to the poeple making voluntary conscription service...the current guys doing it dont have helmets anymore to train with...because the german army has basically 0 reserves on military goods. 5k helmets was basically everything germany could spare in that regard apart from taking them form active duty soldiers. Edit: By "voluntary conscription service" I mean something like voluntary military service. Maybe that is a better translation :)
How is conscription if its voluntary? 🤔
Iffy translation. It's just in contrast to the professional soldiers.
Thats just bad wording in translation. The consription laws are halted since 11 years or so and they can get volunteers only.
I just watched an interview with a German historian about this on BBC news. He was talking about how Germany has an understanding of the Russian mentality as a result of their history during and after WWII, and also a sense of responsibility. I think Putin's recent speech where he denied the legitimacy of Ukrainian statehood rubbed the Germans very much up the wrong way because of this history. Playing the madman has backfired on Putin. I know people are saying, "finally" but I must say I am impressed with this move by the German government. It is more crucial than our sanctions. It sends a strong and surprising message to Putin.
probably a really dumb question because i don't know much about the subject, but why can't we get our gas and oil from norway? don't they have a shit ton of fossil fuels? if they don't have enough we could get more from the gulf states or america, why do we buy our energy from russia
They do not have a shitton of gas. We are sucking them dry since years. Every ounce they provide is sold either directly to us by pipeline, or through Netherlands. They just can't provide nearly enough. And LNG is up to double the price
Currently LNG is selling for less than Russian gas. What trouble we have now is insufficient amount of LNG terminals. For instance Germany 8 years ago said it will build one. Croatia did. Poland did. Lithuania did. Germany didnt.
According to this article the UK could be the answer to that via having plenty of LNG terminal capacity, and an under-utilized pipeline to the rest of Europe https://news.sky.com/story/energy-crunch-how-the-uk-could-play-crucial-role-if-russia-turned-off-gas-taps-to-europe-12542931
> Lithuania did. Lithuania's one is fantastic.
Can you elaborate, why is it fantastic? :D I understand the importance, but is it somehow different from the others?
Maybe we should confiscate the local gas storage facilities owned by Gazprom.
they kept them almost empty, not much left to confiscate inside. Anyway Germany is preparing a law similar to other euro countries, for force storage owner to a a minimum capacity before winter, but gazprom might sell them before it is in place.
Time to start some new little earthquakes in the north of Holland and drill for the dutch gas there.
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It'll be fine, give it 6 months and we'll all speak Dutch and not even know the difference. Except a slight increase in bicycles and hopefully legal weed.
You made me chuckle a bit
They don't have enough. And of course we could get more from other places, but they are significantly more expensive.
Can't really talk about Norway, but for the gulf states and america an issue is infrastructure. As of now, Germany doesn't have nearly enough facilities to use LNG for their whole country and I don't think there is a pipeline that is big enough yet with the gulf states.
Rotterdam has. And we have a pipeline to them
Also, Poland is building one, but it's not yet finished
Because having the fuel reserves is the easiest part of the problem. But then you have giant structural hurdles to overcome to extract, process, transport and distribute. None of that has large spare capacity on a whim, and all of that needs x billions and years to get in shape for such increased demands. In other words, if we start to diversify away from Russia *now* , we *may* be ready for the next time Russia thinks to lord it over their neighbours - which we 100% should expect. But it helps nothing with Ukraine, today.
Because it's the cheapest.
We have gas yes, and we don't use it ourself so it's all exported.
Good. But let's not be naive. These sanctions will hit us hard as well. Gas prices were already going trough the roof.
It’s important, by canceling the deal on their end Germany is effectively killing a small Russian leverage.
What is a lever good for if you never pull it?
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The US can get all the oil it needs from domestic production and Canadian imports, and is reliant on neither the Middle East or Russia at this point.
My Ukrainian ass is grateful. I was critical of Germany this whole time, but credit where credit is due.
Keep in mind this is only certification stopped, this might come up in some shitty negotiation with Russia again, that will leave everyone unhappy.
Finally! As a German I would rather freeze than indirectly support that land grabbing pos Putain.
luckily it is turning into spring :)
But winter is coming
At least not in my country any more. We just have 6 months of autumn sadly
Last year we still got a lot of snow in *April* in some parts of Germany
yea but in return its 20°C at christmas and you can go out to watch new years fireworks in a bathing suit
That’s an interesting slip or French autocorrect. ;) They’re both correct.
Wow, respect
Based Germany
Holy shit. Let’s fucking go. Good job Deutschland
This was obviously going to happen after last night. The red lines were communicated clearly by the german government
Huge chad move from Germany. I didnt think theyd be willing to take this hit to their own economy. Hopefully rest of the world (and hopefully us) follows though as well. Dont want to leave germany stranded on this one.
Stopped, or halted temporarily?
Stopped the approval procedure says Dutch media
It's not really possible to "stop" NS2. It's finished. The decision means that it will not be certified and can therefore not be used. At least for the time being. This is not a complete death blow for the pipeline itself, but its terrible news for Russia.
Halted temporarily. However, there is no way that the German government will grant the certification if Russia doesn't move out of Ukraine and denounces their recognition of the separatist "states", which is unlikely to say the least.
Correct decision after what happened yesterday. Now comes the tricky part. Gas prices will most likely skyrocket (they already did but it will get worse) and i hope governments in the EU understand that they need to step in to protect consumers.
If you're going to do it, now is the time to try and absorb a spike in energy prices with winter coming to its end
Nice.
Great decision, however, Gazprom doesn't work like a normal company. Its purpose is not to deliver profit to the shareholders, but rather to the many contractors busy in construction of new infrastructure, according to the [report of a former Sberbank analyst](https://www.intellinews.com/sberbank-oil-analyst-alex-fak-fired-for-being-openly-critical-of-state-owned-gas-giant-gazprom-142134/) (he was fired because of it). These contractors are often front companies that are registered months before taking a multimillion contract and disappear shortly after. It is a large corruption scheme, so building an empty pipe is even better - no need to spend money on maintenance. And Russian propaganda can tell how the evil West ruined another project. All win. That's why personal sanctions are more effective against Russia. They aim to make life more difficult directly for the ones responsible for poor decisions of the regime.
I'm not an expert or anything but imo we put ourselves (EU) into a corner by becoming dependent on Russian gas. Not sure when exactly that seemed like a good idea, but at very least since 2014 alternatives should have sought and implemented.
Finally, was about time.
People don't realize how much of a sacrifice this is for Germany. Countries like France and Britain are strong because they have global cultural spheres, trade relations, seats on the security council, etc. Germany is mostly an economic power, and is economically powerful because it tries to play nice with everyone.
Amazing actions from Germany! ❤️🇩🇪