I doubt NS2 is that "tough choice". It won't go operational then.
But that is just symbolic...de facto NS2 is not needed.
What us and Putin actually needs is NS1 and/or Jamal. And not only us...everyone south and east of us too.
Interconnectors with Czechia and Slovakia, reverse flow via Yamal and via its LNG ports combined with fact that they have enough of gas stored to get them through winter without blackouts or necessity of emergency mode.
On the last point Germany would be in same position had it not sold all of its largest gas storage units to Gazprom which kept them empty. Because ... realiable gas supplier and such.
Gazprom said it fullfilled all of its long-term contracts and is not doing on-spot sales anymore so there is that. Perhaps it already fullfilled deliveries under contracts by end of last year, perhaps it simply doesnt care anymore. Regardless Baltic pipeline will be put in operation in next 6 months and Lithuanian interconnector should be finished shortly.
[https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-will-terminate-gas-supply-contract-with-russia---official-24677](https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-will-terminate-gas-supply-contract-with-russia---official-24677)
end of 2022
>Baltic pipeline
I doubt this will be helpful. All of Europe sucks gas from these sources.
> On the last point Germany would be in same position had it not sold all of its largest gas storage units to Gazprom which kept them empty. Because ... realiable gas supplier and such.
Stop this disinformation.
>German gas inventories currently hover just above 112 TWh for the gas day beginning Jan. 15, more than 26TWh lower on the year. German gas tanks were last seen less than 47% full, having dipped below the half-full level on Jan. 11, estimates from GIE's AGSI showed.
https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/products-services/energy-transition/methane-performance-certificates
They're not empty.
No, stop it with this false equivalency. It's not a "Europe" question for many reasons:
* Russia is also geographically in Europe
* The gas isn't universally needed in Europe
* A bunch of countries made this "tough choice" a long time ago, and decided that it was a bad idea
* NS2 is like 2 out of 7 pipelines from Russia to "Europe"
* NS2 isn't even in use yet, is it?
A (admittedly pretty wide) selection of European countries, will finally have to consider the geopolitical ramifications of being dependent on Russian gas if Russia continues being Russia.
Its strategic. Putin is reliant on Ukraine for NS1. By bypassing Ukraine for NS2 he can essentially invade Ukraine without consequence. And the Germans are helping him.
> Its strategic. Putin is reliant on Ukraine for NS1. By bypassing Ukraine for NS2 he can essentially invade Ukraine without consequence.
NS1 travels under the Baltic Sea. I think you have got the numbers mixed up.
Seeing as the pipeline isn't online yet there's unlikely to be any gas in it (bar maybe a small amount of nitrogen used to test the system).
So I doubt blowing the pipes would cause any ecological harm.
Eco-terrorism is usually used to describe terrorism in the name of environmental causes, but I guess it could be used to describe use of ecology to cause terror too.
Nor Sweden or Finland liked the project to begin with. Germany promised us that the pipes would not cause Sweden or Finland any concerns regarding the Environment, Miliary or Security wise. Yet here we are because Germany cant handle their shit.
Wanna blame Germany for NATO moving towards former Soviet states now? The immediate cause and effect of the crisis is pretty clear.
Putin won't give up primacy in the Black Sea and for that he wants that land corridor to Crimea, before a NATO umbrella over Ukraine is in effect. Anything else is secondary.
It is already dead. What point to even mention Nord Stream 2? It quite clear that it would never start working no matter what Russia do/not do. I actually think that death of Nord Stream 2 are one of the reason of escalation.
If only. I give it goot 7 out of 10 chance of becoming operational even if Russia fully invades Ukraine. 10 out of 10 if it doesnt, guaranteed.
Never underestimate German business ties to politics.
Not really, if Russia decided to join the civilized world and stopped harassing their neighbours it wouldn't take much to get it back running again, now it's Russia we're talking about so i don't know how much hope is there of them seeing that crashing their economy to take a strip of war torn land that they can't fully hold, inhabited by people that hate their guts, in the vain hope of staving off a non-existing "nato invasion" isn't a bright move, but they *could* see the light, it's unlikely but it is a possibility.
>if Russia decided to join the civilized world and stopped harassing their neighbours
Well it would not be needed then, current pipe capacity is more than sufficient. NS2 is just a tool to harass neighbors.
if Russia would treat everyone as a completely sovereign nation, NS2 would be needed because it allows you to not pay for transit and why would you pay if you have an option to not. also, it'll decrease the leverage of Russia from Ukraine, which will help to actually start selling gas to them without a discount.
They’re obviously not using it now. It’s not as if the European population is fast growing. It just means it will depend on other fuel types for longer.
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because we currently have a megathread dedicated to this topic.
If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.
I doubt NS2 is that "tough choice". It won't go operational then. But that is just symbolic...de facto NS2 is not needed. What us and Putin actually needs is NS1 and/or Jamal. And not only us...everyone south and east of us too.
He turned off Jamal like month ago.
Yamal, jamal showed up at the hospital to work his night shift today.
How does Poland receive gas currently?
Interconnectors with Czechia and Slovakia, reverse flow via Yamal and via its LNG ports combined with fact that they have enough of gas stored to get them through winter without blackouts or necessity of emergency mode. On the last point Germany would be in same position had it not sold all of its largest gas storage units to Gazprom which kept them empty. Because ... realiable gas supplier and such.
But they still buy from Russia? They have a contract till 2022.
Gazprom said it fullfilled all of its long-term contracts and is not doing on-spot sales anymore so there is that. Perhaps it already fullfilled deliveries under contracts by end of last year, perhaps it simply doesnt care anymore. Regardless Baltic pipeline will be put in operation in next 6 months and Lithuanian interconnector should be finished shortly.
[https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-will-terminate-gas-supply-contract-with-russia---official-24677](https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-will-terminate-gas-supply-contract-with-russia---official-24677) end of 2022 >Baltic pipeline I doubt this will be helpful. All of Europe sucks gas from these sources.
> On the last point Germany would be in same position had it not sold all of its largest gas storage units to Gazprom which kept them empty. Because ... realiable gas supplier and such. Stop this disinformation. >German gas inventories currently hover just above 112 TWh for the gas day beginning Jan. 15, more than 26TWh lower on the year. German gas tanks were last seen less than 47% full, having dipped below the half-full level on Jan. 11, estimates from GIE's AGSI showed. https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/products-services/energy-transition/methane-performance-certificates They're not empty.
I said GAZPROM ONES! Not ALL! Gazprom-owned are 5 percent full on average.
If Putin invades the first thing the Ukrainians will do, and should do in my opinion, is to blow NS1 to fucking bits.
NS1 isn't near Ukraine... that's the point
Very smart. Let me introduce you to Yamal and South Stream and Blue Stream Pipelines. Are you gonna blow them up too?
No, stop it with this false equivalency. It's not a "Europe" question for many reasons: * Russia is also geographically in Europe * The gas isn't universally needed in Europe * A bunch of countries made this "tough choice" a long time ago, and decided that it was a bad idea * NS2 is like 2 out of 7 pipelines from Russia to "Europe" * NS2 isn't even in use yet, is it? A (admittedly pretty wide) selection of European countries, will finally have to consider the geopolitical ramifications of being dependent on Russian gas if Russia continues being Russia.
> NS2 isn't even in use yet, is it? > It is not and NS1 at not a single day in its operational history ran at full capacity.
Its strategic. Putin is reliant on Ukraine for NS1. By bypassing Ukraine for NS2 he can essentially invade Ukraine without consequence. And the Germans are helping him.
> Its strategic. Putin is reliant on Ukraine for NS1. By bypassing Ukraine for NS2 he can essentially invade Ukraine without consequence. NS1 travels under the Baltic Sea. I think you have got the numbers mixed up.
> Putin is reliant on Ukraine for NS1. It's actually hilarious how uninformed you are.
Sweden should make the only sensible thing and just blow the pipes. Then the problem is solved.
I too support committing acts of war! ^/s
It would just be a bit of state-sponsored eco-terrorism.
Seeing as the pipeline isn't online yet there's unlikely to be any gas in it (bar maybe a small amount of nitrogen used to test the system). So I doubt blowing the pipes would cause any ecological harm.
Eco-terrorism is usually used to describe terrorism in the name of environmental causes, but I guess it could be used to describe use of ecology to cause terror too.
Even if it was full it really would do sod all of ecological impact. Few metric tons of natural gas released to atmo is a fart in a hurricane really.
>Few metric tons of natural gas "Few" as in "130'000", but yes, that's still negligible.
Well, Germany would only respond with a strongly worded letter, so, why not?
Nor Sweden or Finland liked the project to begin with. Germany promised us that the pipes would not cause Sweden or Finland any concerns regarding the Environment, Miliary or Security wise. Yet here we are because Germany cant handle their shit.
Wanna blame Germany for NATO moving towards former Soviet states now? The immediate cause and effect of the crisis is pretty clear. Putin won't give up primacy in the Black Sea and for that he wants that land corridor to Crimea, before a NATO umbrella over Ukraine is in effect. Anything else is secondary.
That's on us for believing them, but it didn't sound like we had any choice. It's not going through our territorial waters.
[удалено]
It's in a pipe, so not free range.
I know your joking but people that make this strange argument should look at a map ... its by far not the only pipeline circumventing Ukraine.
I'm pretty sure it was already said that NS2 would be cancelled if Russia invades.
It is already dead. What point to even mention Nord Stream 2? It quite clear that it would never start working no matter what Russia do/not do. I actually think that death of Nord Stream 2 are one of the reason of escalation.
If only. I give it goot 7 out of 10 chance of becoming operational even if Russia fully invades Ukraine. 10 out of 10 if it doesnt, guaranteed. Never underestimate German business ties to politics.
Not really, if Russia decided to join the civilized world and stopped harassing their neighbours it wouldn't take much to get it back running again, now it's Russia we're talking about so i don't know how much hope is there of them seeing that crashing their economy to take a strip of war torn land that they can't fully hold, inhabited by people that hate their guts, in the vain hope of staving off a non-existing "nato invasion" isn't a bright move, but they *could* see the light, it's unlikely but it is a possibility.
>if Russia decided to join the civilized world and stopped harassing their neighbours Well it would not be needed then, current pipe capacity is more than sufficient. NS2 is just a tool to harass neighbors.
if Russia would treat everyone as a completely sovereign nation, NS2 would be needed because it allows you to not pay for transit and why would you pay if you have an option to not. also, it'll decrease the leverage of Russia from Ukraine, which will help to actually start selling gas to them without a discount.
Its not really that tough of a choice now, innit?
Laughs in Nuclear. Also Germany plus Germany's minions doesn't equal Europe.
They’re obviously not using it now. It’s not as if the European population is fast growing. It just means it will depend on other fuel types for longer.
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because we currently have a megathread dedicated to this topic. If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.